Investors Mad at Nintendo for not Developing iOS Games

[RCM]

Kind of a giant slap in the face to Nintendo's strategy.

"In one the oddest investor complaints ever, Nintendo's shareholders are reportedly mad at the maker of Mario, Zelda and the Wii, for not leveraging its core franchises on Apple's iOS platforms. Apparently investors haven't noticed for the life of the company's video game industry involvement that Nintendo does not swim in any other ponds but its own. According to a report from Bloomberg's Mike Firn (reporting from Tokyo), investors are now saying that it should develop titles for Apple's iPhone. That would be like Microsoft investors telling it that it should develop Halo games for the PlayStation 3 or Wii...

The complaints highlight the situation that Nintendo President Satoru Iwata faces as consumers shun Nintendo devices to play games on iPhones, iPads and Facebook. The flop of the 3DS debut prompted the company to cut prices 40 percent in Japan and 32 percent in the U.S., the first time the games developer has resorted to such a move within six months of a product’s debut.

Iwata has said that Nintendo will only make titles for its own products as long as he’s in charge, but fund manager Masamitsu Ohki said the company should "scrap that strategy to avoid further alienating investors who have driven the stock to six-year lows."

"Smartphones are the new battlefield for the gaming industry," said Ohki, a fund manager at Tokyo-based Stats Investment Management Co. "Nintendo should try to either buy its way into this platform or develop something totally new."

Ohki declined to identify his holdings to Bloomberg or to name any targets Nintendo should consider for an acquisition. Yasuhiro Minagawa, a spokesman at Nintendo, declined to comment beyond statements made previously by Iwata.

In the short term, Nintendo is betting on price cuts to the 3DS which now sells for 15,000 yen down from 25,000 yen starting today in Japan and a number of new game titles to revive earnings. The company plans to introduce flagship titles such as Super Mario 3D Land in November and Mario Kart 7 in December for the 3DS. In the U.S., the 3DS will cost $169.99, down from $249.99."

SOURCE: http://www.gamepolitics.com/2011/08/11/investors-mad-nintendo-not-developing-ios-games

[Robocop2]

Nintendo would be more likely to develop an iphone type device of their own than they would develop for another platform.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Not to confuse the discussion, but they did allow the Pokemon name/license to be used for an upcoming official app (Android/iOS).

It's not a Pokemon game proper so I don't see it as any different than them allowing the license to be used for animated movies, plush dolls, etc. but it could be viewed as them teasing the issue of consumers and investors wanting them to branch out to other platforms.

http://kotaku.com/5818044/here-it-is-an-official-pokmon-app

[Rickstilwell1]

Not to confuse the discussion, but they did allow the Pokemon name/license to be used for an upcoming official app (Android/iOS).

It's not a Pokemon game proper so I don't see it as any different than them allowing the license to be used for animated movies, plush dolls, etc. but it could be viewed as them teasing the issue of consumers and investors wanting them to branch out to other platforms.

http://kotaku.com/5818044/here-it-is-an-official-pokmon-app

Reminds me of Zelda and Mario for CD-i all over again. If they start making unofficial Nintendo related games, I see more CD-i's in our future. Usually Nintendo makes good games thnat milk their franchises. I'd hate to see more bad ones that do the same thing.

[Bojay1997]

While I think this is an interesting article, as near as I can tell, they have overblown the shareholder sentiment towards changing Nintendo's strategy. All I can find is one analyst and one other quote from a shareholder indicating they think Nintendo should develop for mobile or buy a mobile provider or manufacturer. Having attended several shareholder meetings for companies other than Nintendo over the years, shareholders and analysts are always making these kinds of demands either during the meeting or to the press before or after. Usually, they just don't get reported. Frankly, Nintendo would be foolish to further dillute demand for their games on their own platforms by making them available elsewhere, especially given the economics of mobile and iOS when compared to the economics of console and handheld sales.

[Clownzilla]

Nintendo needs all the exclusivity they can get if they tend to keep making game systems the way they are. A Nintendo consloe without Nintendo games is close to worthless. The last thing they need to is develop their IP's on competitor's machines.

[Collector_Gaming]

i find it interesting on the comment they made considering this

http://images.wikia.com/egamia/images/0/0a/Mario_Teaches_Typing_box.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/2/961102_126684_front.jpg
which was made for Windows 3.1 and Mac OS

I mean why not do simple lil games that a small game development squad could be dedicated to just to try out a iOS app game and see what it does. *shrug*

[courtesi1]

just me or wouldnt nintendo make more money dumping the hardware (ala sega) and just porting their games to ios/android?

it seems like in this day and age you are an egotistical bastard if you release a console

[8bitgamer]

i find it interesting on the comment they made considering this

http://images.wikia.com/egamia/images/0/0a/Mario_Teaches_Typing_box.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/2/961102_126684_front.jpg
which was made for Windows 3.1 and Mac OS

I mean why not do simple lil games that a small game development squad could be dedicated to just to try out a iOS app game and see what it does. *shrug*

As god as my witness, I swear I learned to type using the Mac version of that game.

[Collector_Gaming]

As god as my witness, I swear I learned to type using the Mac version of that game.

i kinda did too my friend.

My elementary school had this and we had a few of the B&W macs and a few of the color ones and luckily we played this on the color ones.

[heybtbm]

Since we're in the last generation of traditional handheld consoles, Nintendo should try to be ahead of the curve this time instead of behind it (last to abandon carts, last to adopt DVD's, still hasn't developed an online presence, etc.).

The 3DS is the end of the line. There will be revisions of the hardware over the next few years...but that's it for dedicated handhelds. Smartphones have won the battle. Question is...does Nintendo know this and refuse to accept it or do think they can change the course of gaming evolution?

[The 1 2 P]

Since we're in the last generation of traditional handheld consoles, Nintendo should try to be ahead of the curve this time instead of behind it (last to abandon carts, last to adopt DVD's, still hasn't developed an online presence, etc.).

Despite usually being last to the party they have still been very profitable over the years, mainly on the back of their Gameboy and DS handhelds. The Wii further added to their profits where they now are a company that reportedly has 14 billion in cash and assets. And although they are usually behind the times on current trends they did usher in this new motion controller initiative that everyone seems to be doing now, although I'm not so sure they should really be bragging about that.


The 3DS is the end of the line. There will be revisions of the hardware over the next few years...but that's it for dedicated handhelds. Smartphones have won the battle. Question is...does Nintendo know this and refuse to accept it or do think they can change the course of gaming evolution?

I agree with you that this will probably be the last dedicated handheld generation(3DS and Vita) and I also think that the next round of consoles could be the last(or second to last). As for what Nintendo will do, only they know for sure. If the Wii U fails then they won't have any choice but to rethink the whole multiplatform option. But they've been down before and have risen again so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

As for the story, like others have already said this would be a very unwise move for Nintendo. For the most part their exclusive games is pretty much all they have going for them on their consoles/handhelds. Eliminate that and Nintendo systems will become almost universally undesirable.

[Rickstilwell1]

It's not really that predictable that this is the last handheld generation that will exist. Should the 3DS get more sales once they finally release Mario games, and should the Vita get more success than the PSP, there could be a chance that it's not the end.

As collectors we don't really care if it ends because there's already more stuff out there than we can collect in our lifetimes, but still there is a lot of fun in getting new handheld games in boxes to open. It's like nowadays everyone is open turning games into the N-Gage without the taco or cards. What they didn't want before is what they want all of a sudden.

[G-Boobie]

It's not really that predictable that this is the last handheld generation that will exist. Should the 3DS get more sales once they finally release Mario games, and should the Vita get more success than the PSP, there could be a chance that it's not the end.

As collectors we don't really care if it ends because there's already more stuff out there than we can collect in our lifetimes, but still there is a lot of fun in getting new handheld games in boxes to open. It's like nowadays everyone is open turning games into the N-Gage without the taco or cards. What they didn't want before is what they want all of a sudden.

The didn't want the N-Gage because it was a clunky, poorly designed piece of shit. Android and iOS devices are not. Most of the time.

What's killing dedicated handheld gaming systems is their single-purpose design and the price of their software. If I have an Android or iPhone, I not only have a phone and gaming device, I also have a GPS, a functional web browser, access to YouTube and Pandora,Facebook, email, etc. All for the price of a 3ds, or even less, with contract. And the games worth playing are at most five bucks.

Still, this is Nintendo. I've learned not to make assumptions about their strategy until the dust has settled. We'll see how it goes.

[Collector_Gaming]

Yea until the dust settles never under estimate nintendo. They haven't been in the business for what is it? over 100 years as a business in general. And over 30 years as a video game company because of stupid business mistakes.

I have a feeling they have something cooking in their R&D that will blow the sox off the market.

[Steve W]

Look at the second generation of game consoles, with the Atari 2600, Intellivision, and Colecovision dominant. They happily ported their games over to the competing systems. Sure, Coleco thoroughly half-assed their ports, but the ports from Atarisoft were really good. Nintendo could make a hell of a lot of money making a few ports of some second-tier games by branching out to other consoles.

[Gameguy]

They really should go back to their previous target market, kids. Handhelds should be aimed at children, not adults. No parent wants to buy their young kid a phone with internet access that keeps needing a paid subscription to work, they just want to give them a game system to keep them busy on the go. Go back to marketing towards kids, that's where the money is.


As for making games for other systems;

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1/atari2600mariobroscartr.jpg

[Steve W]

As for making games for other systems;

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1/atari2600mariobroscartr.jpg

That was just a license deal, since Nintendo hadn't even brought their console out in the US yet. That's how Donkey Kong was the pack-in for the Colecovision. I think that Atari bought the license off Coleco after the big video game collapse and the Tramiels wanted to put out some more 2600 games.

[Graham Mitchell]

So, is anybody sad about the possibility of this being the last handheld generation? If smartphones replace gaming machines, we're in for a pretty crappy experience, unless the phones are significantly modified for larger screens and, ya know, BUTTONS.

Playing games on my android phone sucks balls because the touchscreen interface is so limited. Even if this phone has the graphics muscle to run Ocarina of Time faithfully, it would be unplayable without buttons.

If the smartphones become optimized for gaming, theyre gonna be huge, inconvenient, and cost over $500. At that point you might a well just buy a 3ds.

Something could come along and prove me totally wrong, but I cannot accept the iphone or ipad as my primary mobile gaming source the way they currently are.

[Gameguy]

That was just a license deal, since Nintendo hadn't even brought their console out in the US yet. That's how Donkey Kong was the pack-in for the Colecovision. I think that Atari bought the license off Coleco after the big video game collapse and the Tramiels wanted to put out some more 2600 games.
I know that was before they brought the NES here, I just posted it as lots of people seem to think that they never published their games on other consoles besides those CD-I games which just used the characters from other better games. If they can't sell hardware anymore like they used to they would gladly make games for other systems, or go back into the playing card business. :D

They really care about making money more than anything else, if games aren't profitable for them anymore they'll just make something else instead.

[Bojay1997]

So, is anybody sad about the possibility of this being the last handheld generation? If smartphones replace gaming machines, we're in for a pretty crappy experience, unless the phones are significantly modified for larger screens and, ya know, BUTTONS.

Playing games on my android phone sucks balls because the touchscreen interface is so limited. Even if this phone has the graphics muscle to run Ocarina of Time faithfully, it would be unplayable without buttons.

If the smartphones become optimized for gaming, theyre gonna be huge, inconvenient, and cost over $500. At that point you might a well just buy a 3ds.

Something could come along and prove me totally wrong, but I cannot accept the iphone or ipad as my primary mobile gaming source the way they currently are.

I just don't buy that it's a possibility at all. People are acting as if the bad economy and the $250 price point had nothing to do with the 3DS's mediocre sales. Let's give it a few months and a holiday season at $170 with some actual top quality first party games and if it still doesn't sell at that point, we can start talking obituary for handhelds. Frankly, I can't believe Nintendo has sold as many handhelds and consoles over the past decade as it has given that in many generations, their hardware wasn't even close to the best available. I would never count Nintendo out, at least not five months after a new hardware release.

[j_factor]

That would be like Microsoft investors telling it that it should develop Halo games for the PlayStation 3 or Wii...

Am I the only one that disagrees with this statement? Portable game systems and smartphones/tablets are not in the same category, and neither is their software. While we'll never see a full Zelda game or whatever developed for iOS, there's no reason Nintendo can't release the same types of mobile/iOS games that everyone else does. Nobody seemed to consider it remarkable when Sony released a God of War spin-off for java mobile, and that was like 4 years ago.

[Collector_Gaming]

Am I the only one that disagrees with this statement? Portable game systems and smartphones/tablets are not in the same category, and neither is their software. While we'll never see a full Zelda game or whatever developed for iOS, there's no reason Nintendo can't release the same types of mobile/iOS games that everyone else does. Nobody seemed to consider it remarkable when Sony released a God of War spin-off for java mobile, and that was like 4 years ago.

are you talking never see a full zelda game because of nintendo's rights issue.. or never see a full zelda game cause of hardware issue?

cause Iphone... specially what i have read what the iphone 5 is suppose to be like.. You probably could run OOT smoothly on that thing... only problem is as someone mentioned the lack of buttons. Theres no way in hell you could fit everything ergonomically on a touch screen.. not even on the Ipads. The only thing of the past few generation of games that can fit on a touch screen in terms of controls or atleast on most games is RPGs which you can just scroll through endless amounts of menus and such and driving sims which you use the device like a steering wheel and different touch actions on the screen resemble gas and brake not quite sure how you could make a clutch system work but i am sure they can figure it out.


I just don't buy that it's a possibility at all. People are acting as if the bad economy and the $250 price point had nothing to do with the 3DS's mediocre sales. Let's give it a few months and a holiday season at $170 with some actual top quality first party games and if it still doesn't sell at that point, we can start talking obituary for handhelds. Frankly, I can't believe Nintendo has sold as many handhelds and consoles over the past decade as it has given that in many generations, their hardware wasn't even close to the best available. I would never count Nintendo out, at least not five months after a new hardware release.

This is only true to where you live. In major cities its wrong so wrong. I read articles that parents skip buying gaming consoles and just go straight to smart phones for their kids. Because they want that comfort that if anything happens their kids can call them up. And they know that smart phones have simple games that will entertain kids for hours like Angry Birds and such.
In a more small town setting where the possability of people being a lil behind in technology they are more likely gonna shoot for gaming device because they aren't quite sure about smart phones or the reason for their kids to need a cell phone.


What i think will happen in the future is there will be consoles but with cable and better style internet starting to show up everywhere... Discs and carts and all that will disappear and you will just like smart devices.. Go online purchase your game online and download it to the console and play from there. I mean this already is in place on a what i like to call Beta scale with XBOX Live marketplace and Playstation store and Nintendo's Virtual console store.
I personally won't like it cause i will now lose that nostalgia of having to physically place the game of my choice in the console to play it. But thats whats gonna happen whether we like it or not.

[calthaer]

Nintendo has had the benefit of coming out with some cool gaming systems that really enabled cool games - and having those cool games be first-party on their own hardware. The Game Boy / Advance and DS were pretty amazing, and so was the Wii.

The problem with the latter is that everyone bought it for gimmicky crap, and third parties didn't succeed so well on it. Why was that? Lots of possibilities...maybe the unavailability of the Wii at launch caused a lot of "hard-core" gamers to get a 360 or PS3 instead and use those to build their libraries, getting a Wii eventually but not really devoting much time or money to it. Maybe the lack of a "traditional" controller causes customers to prefer one of the other two systems for "traditional" games, or maybe the game-producers just don't bother making it for Wii at all due to the controller.

As successful as the Wii was, it wasn't an unmitigated success. They seem not to care too much that third parties just aren't investing in their hardware, and turning their nose at indie developers (http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-dislikes-small-indie-studios-but-also-loves-em-197397.phtml) is just plain stupid - these small guys are making some of the best stuff these days, IMO. The DS game that I'm most excited about...actually, the only DS game that I'm actually planning on buying and looking forward to these days...is Diamond Trust of London (http://diamondtrustgame.com/). It looks interesting, and I don't have a 3DS, and don't necessarily want one until there's something I have to have on it. The DS is just fine for me, thanks.

Nintendo's still kind of stuck in 1988, when they had a total lock on the market and were the only game in town. I think this is what's frustrating investors. Sooner or later Nintendo might have to branch out and expand their thinking - whether that means making their dev kits open source and cartridges available to be produced by anyone, or giving up their own proprietary hardware and just developing games and perhaps controllers / accessories (people have gotten the Wii to work on PCs, IIRC) for other systems, I don't know. They have this line about how their current strategy maintains "quality control," but that's a little bit of a false front when we have threads like this one (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111602) being made here, articles like this one (http://www.theredshell.com/nintendo/news/is-shovelware-hurting-nintendo.php) are being written, and the most prominent software for your system on store shelves involve Bratz, Mary Kate & Ashley, Zumba (seriously - was Nintendo actively trying to make their console a fitness device instead of a gaming system? Well, they succeeded.), some fishing or hunting game, or other gimmicky crap at a $20 price point.

[frogofdeath]

Maybe somebody can help me out, because I am finding diddly-squat when I search for this, but I could have sworn that Nintendo DID release some of their games for cell phones. They were released in Japan only, happened maybe 5-6 years ago and included 2-3 old NES games. I remember reading specifically about Balloon Fight, but don't recall the other game or two that was also available. Thought there was even a picture in the article showing a phone with the game onscreen (though that may have been a simulated image). Anybody else remember this?

Edit: Okay, maybe this is what I was thinking about. According to Wikipedia, Balloon Fight was released (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon_Fight) for a the Sharp Zaurus PDA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Zaurus). However, I still thought the article I read featured a flip-style phone.

[moggles]

I doubt there's much truth in the story.

[Graham Mitchell]

I just don't buy that it's a possibility at all. People are acting as if the bad economy and the $250 price point had nothing to do with the 3DS's mediocre sales. Let's give it a few months and a holiday season at $170 with some actual top quality first party games and if it still doesn't sell at that point, we can start talking obituary for handhelds. Frankly, I can't believe Nintendo has sold as many handhelds and consoles over the past decade as it has given that in many generations, their hardware wasn't even close to the best available. I would never count Nintendo out, at least not five months after a new hardware release.

And that was pretty much my point. Though some people seem to disagree, even if Cut the Rope becomes the best selling video game of all time, there's still a market for people who want to play Shin Megami Tensei, Street Fighter IV, New SMB, Zelda, Metal Gear, etc. A smartphone just won't cut it for that. Handheld consoles may not have the dominant market share in the future (like the 360 and PS3 in the current console generation) but they'll still be sustainable and (hopefully) profitable.

And I know some people have bought an $800 ipad or $600 iphone for a 7 year old so they can play Angry Birds and lose it in the restroom at Chuck. E. Cheese, but I'd rather make a cheaper investment for the kid. They don't need an electronic personal organizer or on-the-go access to e-mail for work.

[Cryomancer]

Kinda offtopic, but I'm still waiting for an xbox update to bring ps2 emulation, or some similar "oh hey here's a free thing that lets you play competitor's games". If you code your own emulator from scratch and use none of the other company's code doing so, is there any sort of legal barrier for this sort of thing happening? Obviously Bleem lost to Sony's legal bullying, but someone like Microsoft might be able to get away with it.

[joshnickerson]

What Microsoft needs to is just release an expansion module that attaches to the front of the unit...
http://images03.olx.com/ui/11/35/93/1296196028_161543293_1-Vintage-Coleco-Vision-System-Expansion-Module-1-MORE-QA.jpg

[Rickstilwell1]

So, is anybody sad about the possibility of this being the last handheld generation? If smartphones replace gaming machines, we're in for a pretty crappy experience, unless the phones are significantly modified for larger screens and, ya know, BUTTONS.

Playing games on my android phone sucks balls because the touchscreen interface is so limited. Even if this phone has the graphics muscle to run Ocarina of Time faithfully, it would be unplayable without buttons.

If the smartphones become optimized for gaming, theyre gonna be huge, inconvenient, and cost over $500. At that point you might a well just buy a 3ds.

Something could come along and prove me totally wrong, but I cannot accept the iphone or ipad as my primary mobile gaming source the way they currently are.

I personally hate playing games on phones and don't see why people think that crap is better than handheld games. Handheld games have much more depth, hence why they cost so much. Portable consoles are much more of what I want. Phones that have touch screens are too inaccurate and phones that have buttons have buttons that are too tiny. Over time the touch screen becomes a jittery mess. Also you constantly get fingerprints on your screen that you have to wipe off while the 3DS has a nice stylus that prevents that whole mess.

I will be pissed if they start scrapping real handhelds for this mediocre $5 a game trash that barely even works right and has no depth. If I wanted to play games that resemble old microvision titles just in color with new graphics, I'd download PSP mini's for $2 or $3 a piece instead of $5

[kupomogli]

I'm mad at Nintendo because Legend of Zelda still isn't on the PS3. Oh well. 3D Dot Game Heroes is a great game, so I'm not too mad.

[Leo_A]

Kinda offtopic, but I'm still waiting for an xbox update to bring ps2 emulation, or some similar "oh hey here's a free thing that lets you play competitor's games". If you code your own emulator from scratch and use none of the other company's code doing so, is there any sort of legal barrier for this sort of thing happening? Obviously Bleem lost to Sony's legal bullying, but someone like Microsoft might be able to get away with it.

PS2 patents are still active and will be for a while yet. So you can't create an emulator that copies the functions of the hardware just yet without patent infringement.

And all modern game consoles rely on a software operating system to run. Such code would be copyrighted and copyrights run for far longer than patents do. So unless you could reverse engineer it (A task which in itself may be illegal) and program something that does the same tasks without infringing on their copyrighted code, it isn't going to happen. Plus, you'd have to deal with the various anti piracy functions of the hardware to identify a legitimate PS2 disc since you'd never get away with enabling piracy on a commercial console. I'm not even sure you could program an equivalent program that does the same task to detirmine the authenticity of a PS2 disc without infringing, at least somewhat, on Sony's copyrighted system software.

The difference in length of time a patent and a copyright are active is why you usually have to get a system bios somewhere else when you download a emulator for a console that had an operating system. Programming and distributing the emulator isn't infringing on any patents if they've expired (15 years, I seem to recall), but distributing the system bios will be copyright infringement for many decades to come.

[calgon]

What I'm about to say may be contrarian but hear me out...


I've had more fun on my iphone than I've had with any portable since the GBA Castlevania games. I really believe that this platform is able to reach a much larger audience compared to the 3DS and Nintendo may want to consider actually developing and publishing games for iphone. Imagine a Mario game for iOS. Nintendo could charge whatever they wanted and people would pay. I doubt I phrased my thoughts eloquently enough but for a company who is undergoing financial struggles, they may want to think about it.

[joshnickerson]

Nintendo could charge whatever they wanted and people would pay.

I think that's what got them into the trouble they find themselves in at the moment.


but for a company who is undergoing financial struggles, they may want to think about it.

Nintendo is sitting on a war chest of 19 billion in cold hard CASH. I think they can weather this storm without whoring out their franchises to the competition.


Imagine a Mario game for iOS.

A Mario game on the iPhone, without actual buttons, would be utter shit. I know it. You know it. Even my grandpa knows it, and he's DEAD.

[Leo_A]

Nintendo is sitting on a war chest of 19 billion in cold hard CASH. I think they can weather this storm without whoring out their franchises to the competition.

While I agree with you, they could be all but forced to if it was actually true. They're a publically traded corporation and not privately held, so they have to satisfy their shareholders since they're the owners of the firm.

So if there was indeed widespread uproar from investors that Nintendo wasn't developing software for Apple products (Which there doesn't appear to actually be, just a few individuals that have that opinion and a gaming press that is desperate for a headline grabber to spread around even if it's not exactly accurate), Nintendo wouldn't have much of a say in the matter.

Nintendo's executives are working for their shareholders. They don't have free reign to do whatever they want. And shareholders are largely just interested in today and the next quarter, so even with billions in the bank, you can't weather the storm too long without making some significant changes to try to turn things around or the shareholders will see to it that there are significant changes done with regards to things like the board of directors.

If Nintendo's finances were down and a significant number of the shareholders actually felt this way (for some strange reason), Nintendo would be complying with their wishes.

[shainentinpock]

I really hope Nintendo doesn't adopt if you can't beat them join them strategy. I really hope that there is a market for traditional portable gaming consoles. There is nothing on the iphone or android that I would want to play more than once or for hours at a time. They are pick up and throw away games. The interface just doesn't work for gaming.
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