Steve Lacey, Flight Sim Guy and Former Googler, Dies at Hands of Drunken Murderer

[Nz17]

The original story of Mr. Lacey's death (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/36061/Flight_Simulator_Developer_Steve_Lacey_Killed_In_R oad_Rage_Incident.php), and the follow up with charges and quotes from his family (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/127310098.html). Feel free to read those stories for the whole tale about Steve Lacey, former employee of Google and Microsoft who created many games including the beloved Flight Sim series from MS.

The basic situation is that an angry drunk was trying to smash his car into someone he was mad at and instead collided with another car, killing Mr. Lacey. Said driver had a blood-alcohol level over three times the legal limit. He plead "not guity" and is being held on a million dollar bail on vehicular manslaughter charges.

[Steve W]

I think there should be a much harsher punishment when someone who clearly committed the crime pleads "not guilty" and is in fact found guilty. Hard labor, Soviet gulag style.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah that's pretty messed up. Unless there isn't much evidence to go on, a please of "not guilty" for such a serious crime is rather idiotic. I hope the judge throws the book at him.

[heybtbm]

The basic situation is that an angry drunk was trying to smash his car into someone he was mad at and instead collided with another car, killing Mr. Lacey. Said driver had a blood-alcohol level over three times the legal limit

Considering all the "drunk-drivers-who-kill-people" apologists we have here at DP, I fully expect them to rally around this guy and actively work for his acquittal. Oh wait, he wasn't a beloved entertainer. Nevermind.

[InsaneDavid]

Considering all the "drunk-drivers-who-kill-people" apologists we have here at DP, I fully expect them to rally around this guy and actively work for his acquittal. Oh wait, he wasn't a beloved entertainer. Nevermind.

Agreed. Here, have 2000 Meseta.

[Hep038]

Waiting for all of the " let's by pass the legal system and give him the chair " DP members to show up and tell us the many ways they would like to kill this man. And talk about the special places him hell they would like to see him rot....

I just donated 2000 Meseta to Ryan Dunn and Casey Anthony and in honor of this thread.

[Darkman2K5]

Considering all the "drunk-drivers-who-kill-people" apologists we have here at DP, I fully expect them to rally around this guy and actively work for his acquittal. Oh wait, he wasn't a beloved entertainer. Nevermind.

I don't condone the actions of Ryan Dunn, nor the circumstances regarding his death. However, in the interest of fairness, Dunn was not actively going after someone with his car when he died, this guy was.

[spongerob]

I think there should be a much harsher punishment when someone who clearly committed the crime pleads "not guilty" and is in fact found guilty. Hard labor, Soviet gulag style.

Throw him in a hole. The end.

[Ryaan1234]

Here we go again :roll:

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

Speaking of throwing the book, I hope the judge throws a complete in box Atari 5200 at him. Then he'll realize that drinking + driving = your ass is grass.

[Snapple]

Drunk driving is inexcusable, but this is not a typical drunk driving offense.

Manslaughter was practically made for accidental death by drunk driver. That's what all drunk drivers get when they kill someone.

However, most drunk drivers who kill someone are not attempting to commit murder with their car. This guy was. This is not manslaughter. It is murder.

[kupomogli]

Manslaughter was practically made for accidental death by drunk driver. That's what all drunk drivers get when they kill someone

That's actually incorrect. Vehicular manslaughter is whether you accidently kill a person while driving a vehicle, regardless what state you're in. If you kill someone by a vehicle you're driving in, accident or not, you better get a damn good lawyer or you're looking at some time in prison. This is one of those types of cases that you're guilty until proven innocent and if by some chance they can prove that you obeyed all traffic laws and it was an unavoidable accident you won't receive the charges. Otherwise, it's considered a felony and you're screwed.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

That's actually incorrect. Vehicular manslaughter is whether you accidently kill a person while driving a vehicle, regardless what state you're in. If you kill someone by a vehicle you're driving in, accident or not, you better get a damn good lawyer or you're looking at some time in prison.

For example: Donte Stallworth

JY

[spongerob]

For example: Donte Stallworth

JY

Exactly. People have a real issue with perspective when someone they favor commits a crime.

And I'm not buying manslaughter. I think it's utter bullshit that someone can drink and drive and claim to not have intentions of killing anyone. It'd be just as stupid as if I walked into a mall and fired a gun off, and claimed I wasn't trying to kill anyone because I wasn't aiming. Good lord the legal system is dumber than rocks.

[TRM]

Exactly. People have a real issue with perspective when someone they favor commits a crime.

And I'm not buying manslaughter. I think it's utter bullshit that someone can drink and drive and claim to not have intentions of killing anyone.

As a home brewer, wine maker and beer snob, I need to comment on this.
First of all, I do not advocate drinking and driving. It is dangerous, it is foolish, and it can be fatal. If you are drunk and shouldn’t be driving, there are more options than driving and putting yourself and others at risk.

Secondly, from what I read in the story, this seems to be more than just a case of someone having several drinks, getting behind the wheel and accidently killing someone. Not your typical case of drunk driving, I think. He was driving, and he was drunk, and he may have been fuelled by the alcohol, but it is a totally different scenario than driving, swerved into the other lane and hit someone, or whatever the typical drunk driving story is.

Lastly, to spongerob who thinks that “it’s utter bullshit that someone can drink and drive and claim to not have intentions of killing anyone”: have you ever been drunk before in your life? Have you ever been intoxicated, yet not drunk…let’s say after one or two beers, or something. There is a fine line between the legal limit and the illegal limit, when it comes to intoxication (after one sip of alcohol a person is technically intoxicated, btw). Although I have never driven drunk, I can see how someone could end up driving while above the limit, due to this fine line. That is how someone could drink and drive and not have intentions of causing harm. On the other hand, consider texting and driving. Think about the accidents that causes (fatal), and these people are under no influence of alcohol or some other drug. Yet look at the laws concerning texting versus alcohol! Talk about something that is really screwed up!!!

[TRM]

I also want to comment that I find it so tragic that Stave Lacey’s life was cut short. This kind of news is always sad, and it also must be heartbreaking for the family and the young children. So sad.

[Peonpiate]

I see people driving and texting all the time, most of the time they glance for a split second at the road and then they are back texting away for another 10seconds on their cell phone. I bet the accidents from that are far higher than what anyone wants to admit, accidents from that are probably blamed on traditional mistakes [she veered into my lane or ran a red light etc, certainly the cell phone and staring at that had nothing to do with it!].

[spongerob]

Lastly, to spongerob who thinks that “it’s utter bullshit that someone can drink and drive and claim to not have intentions of killing anyone”: have you ever been drunk before in your life? Have you ever been intoxicated, yet not drunk…let’s say after one or two beers, or something. There is a fine line between the legal limit and the illegal limit, when it comes to intoxication (after one sip of alcohol a person is technically intoxicated, btw).
Sure have. And I'm not stupid enough to drive at the same time. To me, an accident while driving drunk is an oxymoron. The second you hit the gas and you've got enough booze in you, there are no more accidents. You for all intents and purposes, are intending to hurt or kill yourself or someone else.

Then again we're still a society that only listens to warnings like this if they're shoved down our throats from birth. Almost no one cares about drugs or texting, yet studies have shown they can be just as likely to cause accidents, or even more likely in some cases. We feel no personal responsibility unless an ad tells us to.

And I don't care if he didn't kill him because of the alcohol in the traditional manner. That's like saying "well, I drove home drunk and didn't kill anyone so it's OK" just because you didn't get caught.

[TRM]

Sure have. And I'm not stupid enough to drive at the same time. To me, an accident while driving drunk is an oxymoron. The second you hit the gas and you've got enough booze in you, there are no more accidents. You for all intents and purposes, are intending to hurt or kill yourself or someone else.

Then again we're still a society that only listens to warnings like this if they're shoved down our throats from birth. Almost no one cares about drugs or texting, yet studies have shown they can be just as likely to cause accidents, or even more likely in some cases. We feel no personal responsibility unless an ad tells us to.

And I don't care if he didn't kill him because of the alcohol in the traditional manner. That's like saying "well, I drove home drunk and didn't kill anyone so it's OK" just because you didn't get caught.


Honestly, you need to get off the high horse of “I’m better than the rest, not as stupid as the rest” and look at reality for a change, instead of just always having your head in the gaming world. The fact is, when under the influence of alcohol or drugs, some mind-altering chemical, one does not necessarily make the best decisions. Let’s face it --- if this was not the case, then why are contracts not legally binding when under the influence? If one is capable of making the best decisions, totally 100% alert and in the right mind, etc…I do not believe that people should receive a “get out of jail free” card or be exempt from their actions just because they are drunk, but the fact is that there is a fine line between drunkenness and soberness, and the actions within. Do you know the blood alcohol legal driving limit level in the Czech Republic versus in America ;) Do some research, and then come back and post some more.

Honestly bro, we don’t listen to warnings because of the fact that they are shoved down our throats from birth. Regarding texting, I believe it is only a matter of time before it becomes a bigger offense while driving than drunk driving. In some states, such as Maryland, it is already illegal to text and drive. Modern problems, they just take a bit longer to get legislation to pass. At the end of the day though, a person who texts while driving is in a normal state of mind, while a person who is driving while taking medicine, drugs, or alcohol is under an impaired state of mind. A murder is a murder, but is it more understandable in cold blood or if insane?

Not condoning people driving drunk, but at the same time, alcohol gets such a bad rap in America because of idiots like you who do not look at the other variables as well. Wanna know something funny I read a few months back? About a woman who had been the leader at a chapter of MADD, who got pulled over for drunk driving…that says it all, imo.

[Emperor Megas]

As a home brewer, wine maker and beer snob, I need to comment on this.
First of all, I do not advocate drinking and driving. It is dangerous, it is foolish, and it can be fatal. If you are drunk and shouldn’t be driving, there are more options than driving and putting yourself and others at risk.

Secondly, from what I read in the story, this seems to be more than just a case of someone having several drinks, getting behind the wheel and accidently killing someone. Not your typical case of drunk driving, I think. He was driving, and he was drunk, and he may have been fuelled by the alcohol, but it is a totally different scenario than driving, swerved into the other lane and hit someone, or whatever the typical drunk driving story is.

Lastly, to spongerob who thinks that “it’s utter bullshit that someone can drink and drive and claim to not have intentions of killing anyone”: have you ever been drunk before in your life? Have you ever been intoxicated, yet not drunk…let’s say after one or two beers, or something. There is a fine line between the legal limit and the illegal limit, when it comes to intoxication (after one sip of alcohol a person is technically intoxicated, btw). Although I have never driven drunk, I can see how someone could end up driving while above the limit, due to this fine line. That is how someone could drink and drive and not have intentions of causing harm. On the other hand, consider texting and driving. Think about the accidents that causes (fatal), and these people are under no influence of alcohol or some other drug. Yet look at the laws concerning texting versus alcohol! Talk about something that is really screwed up!!!I've never had a drink in my life, and never plan on it. I think it's a pretty black and white issue. If you've been drinking, don't drive. It's really that simple, IMO.


Honestly, you need to get off the high horse of “I’m better than the rest, not as stupid as the rest” and look at reality for a change, instead of just always having your head in the gaming world. The fact is, when under the influence of alcohol or drugs, some mind-altering chemical, one does not necessarily make the best decisions. Let’s face it --- if this was not the case, then why are contracts not legally binding when under the influence? If one is capable of making the best decisions, totally 100% alert and in the right mind, etc…I do not believe that people should receive a “get out of jail free” card or be exempt from their actions just because they are drunk, but the fact is that there is a fine line between drunkenness and soberness, and the actions within. Do you know the blood alcohol legal driving limit level in the Czech Republic versus in America ;) Do some research, and then come back and post some more.I'm sorry, but what does the legal limit in the Czech Republic have to do with anything? Should I reference women's rights in Afghanistan if we're discussing rape? I'm not being argumentative, I'm just really not getting your point.


Honestly bro, we don’t listen to warnings because of the fact that they are shoved down our throats from birth....? Huh? Wait, I'm confused here. I don't get the cause and effect on that one at all. I've been told not to use drugs, murder, or rape women my whole life, but I've never been compelled to do these things, and it certainly wouldn't be because I was told not to my whole life if I did decide to do any of them. Who's "we" exactly?



Regarding texting, I believe it is only a matter of time before it becomes a bigger offense while driving than drunk drivingThat's a scary thought. They're both HORRIBLE, but you have a measurable degree of control while texting, when you're drunk, you really have no idea. Moreover, I'd wager it's only a matter of time until texting is a predominately hands free/verbal dictation thing, like talking on a phone (when not done in situations where privacy is a concern), which is a heck of a lot safer than looking down at and handling a device in your hands.


In some states, such as Maryland, it is already illegal to text and drive. Modern problems, they just take a bit longer to get legislation to pass. At the end of the day though, a person who texts while driving is in a normal state of mind, while a person who is driving while taking medicine, drugs, or alcohol is under an impaired state of mind. A murder is a murder, but is it more understandable in cold blood or if insane?They chose to use alcohol before they got behind the wheel though. EVERYONE knows that you shouldn't drink and drive. If you DECIDE to do it, you should be prepared to face the consequences, IMO. If you're out and you know that to have to drive, don't, or give someone else your keys. If you're home alone and drinking, and you have access to a vehicle, maybe your shouldn't if you can't trust yourself not to get behind the wheel.


Not condoning people driving drunk, but at the same time, alcohol gets such a bad rap in America because of idiots like you who do not look at the other variables as well. Wanna know something funny I read a few months back? About a woman who had been the leader at a chapter of MADD, who got pulled over for drunk driving…that says it all, imo.I'm confused about what you think it says. That people are hypocrites? That's hardly eye opening. You want me to link you to stories of cops that kill people, sell drugs, pimp women...because I can. Should we look at other variables when prosecuting these people, and convict them of lesser charges?

[TRM]

I've never had a drink in my life, and never plan on it. I think it's a pretty black and white issue. If you've been drinking, don't drive. It's really that simple, IMO.

I'm sorry, but what does the legal limit in the Czech Republic have to do with anything? Should I reference women's rights in Afghanistan if we're discussing rape? I'm not being argumentative, I'm just really not getting your point.

...? Huh? Wait, I'm confused here. I don't get the cause and effect on that one at all. I've been told not to use drugs, murder, or rape women my whole life, but I've never been compelled to do these things, and it certainly wouldn't be because I was told not to my whole life if I did decide to do any of them. Who's "we" exactly?


That's a scary thought. They're both HORRIBLE, but you have a measurable degree of control while texting, when you're drunk, you really have no idea. Moreover, I'd wager it's only a matter of time until texting is a predominately hands free/verbal dictation thing, like talking on a phone (when not done in situations where privacy is a concern), which is a heck of a lot safer than looking down at and handling a device in your hands.

They chose to use alcohol before they got behind the wheel though. EVERYONE knows that you shouldn't drink and drive. If you DECIDE to do it, you should be prepared to face the consequences, IMO. If you're out and you know that to have to drive, don't, or give someone else your keys. If you're home alone and drinking, and you have access to a vehicle, maybe your shouldn't if you can't trust yourself not to get behind the wheel.

I'm confused about what you think it says. That people are hypocrites? That's hardly eye opening. You want me to link you to stories of cops that kill people, sell drugs, pimp women...because I can. Should we look at other variables when prosecuting these people, and convict them of lesser charges?

Okay to sum up your points a bit.

#1. If you have never had a drink in your life, then you really cannot contribute so much to this discussion. This is akin to being well built, and telling a fat person to lay off the twinkies and join a gym. Not all fat people are fat because of poor eating habits and lack of exercise. It is easy for the outsider to judge that their weight problem is caused by eating doughnuts and not exercising, though it could be caused by genetics and medicine, truth be told. Easy to make the case that people who drink shouldn't drive, especially if you never have a drink yourself. Suppose someone has several drinks from 17:00 to 19:00, then wants to drive home at 21:00 or 22:00? Are they okay or not? Suppose I have a drink now, but want to drive home tomorrow night? At some point the alcohol will pass through the system, at some point it will become okay for a person to drive after having a drink. If not, I can never drive again since I have drank at least once in my life. ;) My point is, if you have never drank before, you would be the last person who would know about how one feels when one has drank.

#2. In the Czech Republic, there is a no tolerance policy for drinking and driving. if you have one beer, you are not allowed to drive. In the USA, for the (average) man, if you have one drink, you will still be well below the legal blood alcohol level. Obviously, the less that one drinks, the better, but the "safe" level is variable, when comparing these two driving laws.

#3. So you always obey the speed limit and do everything else that you are told to do as well, I presume. What about killing people in concentration camps? The fact of the matter is that some people will rebel, and do the opposite of what they were taught, "just because." I am sure you know this, and it is quite common sense.

#4. And as you said it, THAT is why texting while driving is 500% worse than drinking and driving. You have the control not to do so, but you throw the safety of others away for your selfish purposes while texting and driving. Both are dangerous, and I think that not enough studies of texting while driving have been done to tell if it is more or less dangerous than drinking and driving, or driving while high. However, people who are intoxicated are not necessarily in a normal state of mind. Therefore, while a person might realize what he or she is doing, he or she might not realize this as well. This does not justify or excuse the end results, but a flagrant disregard for the safety of others is a lot worse imo than the disregard of others while in a state of mind where you do not realize what you are doing. Both are inexcuseable, but the fact remains that a person can have 5 drinks and try to drive home, not realizing he or she is drunk, whereas another person can drive home, text, and he or she damn well knows that that shit is dangerous.

[spongerob]

Honestly, you need to get off the high horse of “I’m better than the rest, not as stupid as the rest” and look at reality for a change, instead of just always having your head in the gaming world.
Wow, don't be an arrogant cock or anything :roll:

Know what I find odd? How if I were to drink, drive, and get in an accident, I'd be the world's most irresponsible asshole. It's my responsibility, yadda yadda. Yet, if I'm to say that I'm responsible enough to not drink and drive, suddenly I'm up on a high horse. Maybe there's something wrong with your interpretation skills, and something inside you that makes you think a simple declaration of responsibility is arrogance.

Oh and sorry I didn't look up something irrelevant to the discussion. Silly me, I'll come back when I have. Just let me know ahead of time what the next pointless discussion will be about.

If you wanna be a child and argue for sport, fine, just at least don't be a dipshit about it and bring up random, off the wall pointless shit like "hey, people text too!", blood alcohol levels in timbuktoo, and MADD employees who make stupid decisions. These don't justify it. How this shit is logical is the real question. The reality is, you think alcohol is being demonized and you wanted to defend it, only there's not much to defend. But that wasn't going to stop you from trying, right?

Fact is, the only one responsible for you, is you. Not some law in Bangladesh, not some dude who texts 60% of the time behind the wheel, not the fact that "he wasn't really drunk enough". You. And even if you're not drunk enough, or you feel you aren't, a breathalyzer may say otherwise and while you can certainly make a case against them, you'd be stupid to risk it. Why even take that chance?

[Emperor Megas]

Okay to sum up your points a bit.

#1. If you have never had a drink in your life, then you really cannot contribute so much to this discussion. This is akin to being well built, and telling a fat person to lay off the twinkies and join a gym.I don't believe that this is true. You don't have to be a drinker to know that alcohol intoxicates and compromises ones ability to function to some degree. It's the same way that you don't have to be sick to be a doctor, or stricken with a certain disease to be specialist in a given field.


Not all fat people are fat because of poor eating habits and lack of exercise. It is easy for the outsider to judge that their weight problem is caused by eating doughnuts and not exercising, though it could be caused by genetics and medicine, truth be told.That's apples and oranges though. Alcohol intoxicates, that's what it does. That doesn't mean that one person will get as drunk as another person on the same amount of alcohol, if even at all, but you can't make rules that apply to individuals, so the law is same for everyone, across the board. I just feel that it's more responsible to abstain from drinking altogether, especially if you're going to be driving.


Easy to make the case that people who drink shouldn't drive, especially if you never have a drink yourself.Just because it's easy to make a case doesn't mean that it's not a good case.


Suppose someone has several drinks from 17:00 to 19:00, then wants to drive home at 21:00 or 22:00? Are they okay or not? Suppose I have a drink now, but want to drive home tomorrow night? At some point the alcohol will pass through the system, at some point it will become okay for a person to drive after having a drink. If not, I can never drive again since I have drank at least once in my life. ;) My point is, if you have never drank before, you would be the last person who would know about how one feels when one has drank.Again, you don't have to be a stricken with something to understand the effects. Otherwise no one with cancer should trust the advice of a doctor who wasn't him or herself a cancer sufferer. Moreover, there are laws about the blood alcohol levels already. I believe that's what determines when you can drive again. If you had a drink once in your life, as in your hypothetical scenario, and your blood alcohol level is still the same for some bizarre reason years later, you shouldn't get behind the wheel. Fortunately, we know that alcohol doesn't stay in your system forever though, so that's a moot point.


#2. In the Czech Republic, there is a no tolerance policy for drinking and driving. if you have one beer, you are not allowed to drive.That sounds awesome.


#3. So you always obey the speed limit and do everything else that you are told to do as well, I presume.I don't drive. I've never had a license, and don't plan on getting one in the near future (or a cell phone for that matter). If I ever did though, I certainly wouldn't drink and drive, or text behind the wheel.


What about killing people in concentration camps?What ABOUT killing people in concentration camps? No one who worked in concentration camps were raised to kill people in them. The camps weren't around long enough for it to have been "crammed down their throat their whole life". Moreover, I don't understand what you're getting at. Warnings about the affects of alcohol and drugs, and the dangers of operating a vehicle with diminished capacity has precious little to do with genocide. These rules (not driving under the influence) were made to save lives, not end lives. How did we get on Nazism exactly? :|


The fact of the matter is that some people will rebel, and do the opposite of what they were taught, "just because." I am sure you know this, and it is quite common sense.Actually, I didn't realize that people (i.e. "we") drank and drove just because they we told not to. I thought that drunk drivers disregarded the rules because they weren't concerned or convinced that they were a danger to themselves or anyone else, and they were still in control. I honestly don't know who this "we" demographic is who rebels by drinking and driving simple because they were told not to.


#4. And as you said it, THAT is why texting while driving is 500% worse than drinking and driving. You have the control not to do so, but you throw the safety of others away for your selfish purposes while texting and driving. Both are dangerous, and I think that not enough studies of texting while driving have been done to tell if it is more or less dangerous than drinking and driving, or driving while high. However, people who are intoxicated are not necessarily in a normal state of mind. Therefore, while a person might realize what he or she is doing, he or she might not realize this as well. This does not justify or excuse the end results, but a flagrant disregard for the safety of others is a lot worse imo than the disregard of others while in a state of mind where you do not realize what you are doing. Both are inexcuseable, but the fact remains that a person can have 5 drinks and try to drive home, not realizing he or she is drunk, whereas another person can drive home, text, and he or she damn well knows that that shit is dangerous.The fact that you have control over what you do when you text is why it's not inherently as dangerous as driving drunk. I think that we're talking about two different issues here. One seems to be a moral question, and another is about a motorist's ability to control/take responsibility for their actions.

Texting and driving drunk are both bad calls, but I still feel that driving drunk, in general, is far worse because someone could send or answer a text when they've surveyed the road conditions and determined that there's little to no threat of an accident, in a coherent state. It's not so different from tuning the radio. I'm NOT saying that people who text and drive usually do this, but the fact is if they're sober they have a better chance of making that call. Someone who's drunk isn't as coherent as someone who isn't, and their actions/reactions/choices can't be trusted to the same extent. The fact that they have a diminished capacity because of the alcohol isn't something that should excuse anything they do, because there was a time when they were sober and elected to consume an intoxicating substance and drive.

No matter how you slice it, saying that texting behind the wheel is 500% worse than driving drunk is an a near impossible sell.

[TRM]

Wow, don't be an arrogant cock or anything :roll:

Know what I find odd? How if I were to drink, drive, and get in an accident, I'd be the world's most irresponsible asshole. It's my responsibility, yadda yadda. Yet, if I'm to say that I'm responsible enough to not drink and drive, suddenly I'm up on a high horse. Maybe there's something wrong with your interpretation skills, and something inside you that makes you think a simple declaration of responsibility is arrogance.

Oh and sorry I didn't look up something irrelevant to the discussion. Silly me, I'll come back when I have. Just let me know ahead of time what the next pointless discussion will be about.

If you wanna be a child and argue for sport, fine, just at least don't be a dipshit about it and bring up random, off the wall pointless shit like "hey, people text too!", blood alcohol levels in timbuktoo, and MADD employees who make stupid decisions. These don't justify it. How this shit is logical is the real question. The reality is, you think alcohol is being demonized and you wanted to defend it, only there's not much to defend. But that wasn't going to stop you from trying, right?

Fact is, the only one responsible for you, is you. Not some law in Bangladesh, not some dude who texts 60% of the time behind the wheel, not the fact that "he wasn't really drunk enough". You. And even if you're not drunk enough, or you feel you aren't, a breathalyzer may say otherwise and while you can certainly make a case against them, you'd be stupid to risk it. Why even take that chance?

#1. I found your earlier post to be quite arrogant and asshole worthy: need I remind you? “And I'm not buying manslaughter. I think it's utter bullshit that someone can drink and drive and claim to not have intentions of killing anyone. It'd be just as stupid as if I walked into a mall and fired a gun off, and claimed I wasn't trying to kill anyone because I wasn't aiming. Good lord the legal system is dumber than rocks.” Um yeah, totally irrelevant comparison.

#2. Regarding responsibility. Not sure if you are from the states or Canada, but in the states a lot of the responsibility is on the bar/bar tenders, and not on the drinker. Who in the hell knows why the bar and bartenders should be held responsible for the patron’s actions (actually it is because the victim / family of the victim will try to go after the most money they can during a court case), but that is the way it is in the USA.

#3. Regarding breathalyzer tests and what not. I see nothing wrong with them at all, yet really do not see what your comments “And even if you're not drunk enough, or you feel you aren't, a breathalyzer may say otherwise” contribute to this discussion. A person is technically intoxicated as soon as he or she has a sip of alcohol, though we are of course not talking about drunkenness here. You do realize that some juices have small quantities of natural alcohol in them, I believe orange juice might be one of these. Getting back to the breathalyzers though, an average person male can have a drink, get behind the wheel afterwards, and be perfectly under the legal limit in the USA, and also be perfectly capable of driving safely, and pass the breathalyzer test no problem. Why take the chance, you might ask. Chance of what? If you are within the legal limit, and capable, I beg to know what chance we are taking here. Everyone takes a chance when getting behind the wheel, whether sober or after a beer. With that said, I would rather ride with the average male who had one drink (under normal conditions, not like he is sleep deprived and having an empty stomach or some bullshit like that) than with someone who has their eyes off the road as they text. Certainly, one of these is more dangerous than the other, no matter how you look at it.

Now regarding people who are truly drunk. It is easy to throw out comments that “they should know better” and “they knew that they were going to be out and then have to drive”, but things are not always so clear cut. I personally know that the best of plans do not always go as planned, and that refers to anything. Maybe said person goes out, ends up meeting some friends and has a few more beers than planned, or something like that. Foreseeable…maybe, but maybe not. To think otherwise is just being naïve. I can say though, that when people drink, they do not always plan ahead, and are not always in the condition to make wise decisions. If people were 100% mentally in control, at this point, then why do people binge and after getting drunk, continue until they puke their guts out? Yes, everyone knows the scientific textbook behaviors relating with alcohol; however, completing the textbook example is rubbish compared to actual experience. As a non-drinker, you don’t have the first hand experience in how drinking alters the mind, and as such, would not know how easy it would be to make a poor judgment for a reason other than just for the fact that you were acting as an irresponsible asshole.

[spongerob]

#1. I found your earlier post to be quite arrogant and asshole worthy: need I remind you? “And I'm not buying manslaughter. I think it's utter bullshit that someone can drink and drive and claim to not have intentions of killing anyone. It'd be just as stupid as if I walked into a mall and fired a gun off, and claimed I wasn't trying to kill anyone because I wasn't aiming. Good lord the legal system is dumber than rocks.” Um yeah, totally irrelevant comparison.
It's text on a screen. That's how I talk. Get over it.


#2. Regarding responsibility. Not sure if you are from the states or Canada, but in the states a lot of the responsibility is on the bar/bar tenders, and not on the drinker. Who in the hell knows why the bar and bartenders should be held responsible for the patron’s actions (actually it is because the victim / family of the victim will try to go after the most money they can during a court case), but that is the way it is in the USA.
That doesn't justify it, just because that's how it is. It's a personal responsibility thing. What if there's no bartender involved?

"Man, I hit that guy while I was driving sloshed...I shoulda just went to the bar and got hammered, then I could blame the bartender!". Ugh..


#3. Regarding breathalyzer tests and what not. I see nothing wrong with them at all, yet really do not see what your comments “And even if you're not drunk enough, or you feel you aren't, a breathalyzer may say otherwise” contribute to this discussion.
The idea is that even sober, most people have the judgment skills of a rotten turd. We don't make the laws, we make our own laws and fortunately they don't hold up in court. A person is technically intoxicated when they sip booze, yeah, but let's not resort to childish technicalities, we're all adults (I hope). We know a sip is different from boozing for a night and jumping in your Hyundai Pony and thinking you can get home.


Everyone takes a chance when getting behind the wheel, whether sober or after a beer. With that said, I would rather ride with the average male who had one drink (under normal conditions, not like he is sleep deprived and having an empty stomach or some bullshit like that) than with someone who has their eyes off the road as they text. Certainly, one of these is more dangerous than the other, no matter how you look at it.
Yeah, cool. When a topic about texting and driving comes up, we'll talk about this. Because I agree, but I dunno what it has to do with this conversation.


Now regarding people who are truly drunk. It is easy to throw out comments that “they should know better” and “they knew that they were going to be out and then have to drive”, but things are not always so clear cut.
Yes they are. Be a man. Sorry but this is a cheap excuse. I know some serious lightweights and I've never known any of them to let the booze control them so much that they decide to drive. But I do know some stupid irresponsible assholes who, even without booze, make stupid decisions and have been the ones who have driven drunk.

If you don't plan ahead, that's very unfortunate and guess who is at fault? You. Period. I don't care if you're mentally unstable, or horny and want to fuck the girl you just met, or whatever. You are the one responsible when you're an adult and have the very real ability to kill another human being. We're not 14 here and we can't use the "but I didn't bring my rain coat" excuse when a storm comes along.

[Aussie2B]

I think Steve Lacey deserves more respect than to have a topic about his death used as an opportunity to dredge up old beefs and start arguments. So... RIP Mr. Lacey.

I guess we can at least be grateful that whoever was the intended target seemingly wasn't harmed too.