Zelda II - Why all the hate?

[dap9984]

So I just watched an entire walkthrough of Battle of Olympus on Youtube and all I can say is WOW. First off, the person playing is a master of the game, and second, I was completely mind boggled at how confusing it could be. It was a complete maze. Especially since there was so much back-tracking. Looks like a ton of fun though. Incredibly similar to Zelda II.

[Aussie2B]

Heh, I assume you're mostly referring to the areas with the looping hallways and doors that pop you out who knows where? Yeah, it's a nutty game to map out, but if you take the time to do so, it gets manageable.

[Bloodreign]

3 pages of zelda 2 talk and not a single mention of rambo for the nes? really?

i'm disapointed.


Some of us would like to forget that atrocity.

[Blitzwing256]

Some of us would like to forget that atrocity.

really?
rambo was an amazing game once you actualy got past the first 20 seconds of the game (you know the part that people coudln't figure out?)

very simmilar to zelda 2 in design, long and difficult game but pretty amazing for its time.

[kupomogli]

Rambo was a decent game. It was just finding where to go was the problem. There were too many pathways that lead into a dead end or taking others would just lead you back to an old location. Sometimes when taking one pathway it would disappear so you wouldn't be able to take that pathway back, meaning you had no choice but to go back through several screens you've probably traversed a few times through already.

The only other problem was it had the same music over and over and over. I mean the main theme isn't too bad, honestly, but when you hear it 99% of the game, then it does start to get a little annoying.

[Sunnyvale]

Rambo was a decent game. It was just finding where to go was the problem. There were too many pathways that lead into a dead end or taking others would just lead you back to an old location. Sometimes when taking one pathway it would disappear so you wouldn't be able to take that pathway back, meaning you had no choice but to go back through several screens you've probably traversed a few times through already.

The only other problem was it had the same music over and over and over. I mean the main theme isn't too bad, honestly, but when you hear it 99% of the game, then it does start to get a little annoying.

I enjoyed Rambo as a kid, it's a little tedious now. As for the 8-bit ear-torture... Zelda 1 was the same way. Mute that POS and put on some Def Leppard was my strategy in the lated 80's. Used to fall asleep w that music stuck in my head...

[vintagegamecrazy]

I just can't wrap my head around all the Zelda II hate that comes out here. It is simply put my favorite NES game of all time. I got it in 1993 by accident and my dad and I had no idea what to do in it but we slowly figured it out and both finished the game with only a few random game mags for help along with an Atlas. Those were good times fore sure!

[old man]

The thing about Battle of Olympus is that it plays almost exactly like Zelda II. I would bet money they game is either a hack or huge portions of Zelda II code was used for it.

[Aussie2B]

The thing about Battle of Olympus is that it plays almost exactly like Zelda II. I would bet money they game is either a hack or huge portions of Zelda II code was used for it.

Extremely unlikely.

In fact, the games play quite a bit different. Zelda II has much more depth to its combat system. It's more of a "dueling" game seeing you're mostly in 1-on-1 fights, and many of the enemies are very good at blocking and take multiple hits. Battle of Olympus is more your standard adventure game combat fare - walk up to the enemy and stab it, with it dying in a hit or two.

[ccovell]

The thing about Battle of Olympus is that it plays almost exactly like Zelda II. I would bet money they game is either a hack or huge portions of Zelda II code was used for it.

Zelda II is a clear product of its time, which is why I don't like it so much personally. Influenced by the smash hit DragonQuest (and Hydlide, obviously) for its overhead sections, hit points, etc., and influenced by Japanese PC hits Xanadu & Romancia -- which were big hits at the time -- for its side-scrolling sections.

Battle of Olympus (announced in mid-1987) merely followed this wave of side-scrolling RPGs along with Sorcerian, Ys III, Fire Bam... lots of others.

[XYXZYZ]

Zelda II is one of my favorite video games, in my top 5 for sure. Admittedly a lot of my love for Zelda II may come from my imagination as a kid, it certainly did have an "adventure" feel to it... I really enjoyed plugging away at it every day, exploring Hyrule trying to find all the secrets and gradually powering up Link along the way. I like the combination of building up your character by finding items like heart containers, and using experience points to improve your stats. It added a strategy element to the game (never put the crystal in the statue when you're close to raising a level!).

Looking back at it now, I do find it rather disappointing that Link only uses the same sword attack through the whole game, it would be cool if there were more items to use like the boomerang, magic wand and hookshot you find in other Zelda games.

And a lot of the "faults" people are complaining about here are just elements of the game, you can either figure out how to work with them or you can't, I call that process learning how to play the game. Some times it's worth the effort for you, sometimes it's not. I didn't like Battle of Olympus very much because the controls seemed a little flaky to me, but I think I'll give that game another look. I also thought Ys III was a terrible game when I first played it, but now I'm giving it another chance (on the PC Engine) and I find it to be a pretty solid game once you get the hang of it!

[j_factor]

Can I assume you also were less than pleased with NES Double Dragon in which Billy Lee had to "learn" how to do an uppercut, an elbow and a sitdown punch?

Sorry for the late reply, but yes, absolutely, I didn't like that aspect of the game at all. Lots of games have you learn special abilities, but when they're very basic moves with no apparent reason as to why you couldn't do it in the first place, I find it rather annoying.

[NE146]

And a lot of the "faults" people are complaining about here are just elements of the game, you can either figure out how to work with them or you can't,

EXACTLY. Zelda 2 is actually one of my all time favorite games (and believe me, I've played a lot of them) and many of the so called "faults" of the game people talk about turns out to be intentional parts of it's design and gameplay. Figuring out how to deal with them and/or take advantage of them is part of the game once you put in your time in. e.g. maxing out your attack to Level 8 early in the game, etc.

There is one mentioned "fault" that I would semi-agree with. And that's losing all your experience points when you get a game over. That's can be a real bummer if you don't have a lot of time to invest in playing. While the solution is to max out on 1-ups for the end run, personally I say just play it in an emulator with savestates, and that takes care of that problem. :p

[Gentlegamer]

Zelda II was the first new NES game I ever owned. I received it as a gift in spring 1989 to go with my NES I received the preceding Christmas. I distinctly remember having my choice of games, and it was narrowed down to Super Mario Bros. 2 or Zelda II. I chose Zelda II, and never regretted it.

I still have that original copy of Zelda II (with box and manual, still have the NES, too).

Zelda II being different from the original didn't strike me as odd back then. It seemed normal, and fit into the "pattern" of Super Mario Bros. 2 and Castlevania II offering something different.

Posters have mentioned Battle of Olympus - that's a great game! I actually think I liked it better, mostly because it had more "secrets," which is something I love in video games.

I remember Death Mountain being really tough, but the hardest part in my memory was going to the last palace. I believe the background looks like a big wooden fence and there's tons of enemies and projectiles to dodge, each doing big damage.

I just realized I haven't played Zelda II through in 20 years! I think it's time I dust off my NES cart and relive the adventure of Link!

[Koa Zo]

Last I played through the Adventure of Link was probably in 2006 on Gamecube.

As someone else mentioned in this thread, I was trying for a no-miss clear.
On my best attempt I hit a slime on a bridge and got knocked back into lava for an instant death. Good challenging fun. Brilliant design. Some people just can't get it.

[Coptur]

You should watch AVGN's Zelda 2 video. It sums up everything there is to say about the game.

http://cinemassacre.com/2010/08/04/avgn-zelda-2-the-adventure-of-link/

[kupomogli]

You should watch AVGN's Zelda 2 video. It sums up everything there is to say about the game.

http://cinemassacre.com/2010/08/04/avgn-zelda-2-the-adventure-of-link/

Most of which is "it's hard."

[j_factor]

It's not really that hard. Its flaws are more annoyances than true difficulty.

[spongerob]

I remember Death Mountain being really tough, but the hardest part in my memory was going to the last palace. I believe the background looks like a big wooden fence and there's tons of enemies and projectiles to dodge, each doing big damage.



Bingo. That fence part wasn't easy but you could master it. However, you weren't getting through there without taking at least a couple of hits and life in this game is precious and you needed every bit for the last palace (which is stupidly difficult, and not in a good way). The worst part about the fence area is you have to just keep backtracking and trudging through it over and over.

[Berserker]

Whether the difficulty is intentional or not, it's still rewarding when you surmount it. I can stand back and see what I perceive to be design flaws but as a player, I like the fact that you face the hatchet monsters before you get the downward thrust. I don't think I'd like the game as much if it were designed properly.

[bangtango]

There is one mentioned "fault" that I would semi-agree with. And that's losing all your experience points when you get a game over. That's can be a real bummer if you don't have a lot of time to invest in playing.

One of the more irrelevant flaws actually. All it does is make Zelda II one of dozens of good to great video games which "punish" you for dying. If you aren't losing your experience points when you die in a game, you just lose your points/score, progress, power-ups, gold, etc.

[skaar]

One of the more irrelevant flaws actually. All it does is make Zelda II one of dozens of good to great video games which "punish" you for dying. If you aren't losing your experience points when you die in a game, you just lose your points/score, progress, power-ups, gold, etc.

I was fine with losing the EXP. Just meant I had to be careful, and not risk tough areas until I spent that EXP.

It's called a freaking penalty. Toughen up and overcome. Or, Farmville.

[Icarus Moonsight]

At least you didn't loose all your stuff and had to go back to where you died to retrieve it all. They hadn't concocted deviousness of that scale yet.

Nude reclaim runs get the adrenaline thumping.

[bangtango]

I was fine with losing the EXP. Just meant I had to be careful, and not risk tough areas until I spent that EXP.

It's called a freaking penalty. Toughen up and overcome. Or, Farmville.

Dragon Warrior was much worse, considering you lost half your gold if you died. As bad as the grinding was to reach the next experience level, you also did a hell of a lot of grinding to acquire the several thousand gold coins needed to buy some of the "better" armors and swords in the game. All of which became useless when you acquired the Erdrick's Armor, Erdrick's Sword, etc.

You'd spend hours amassing the gold needed to acquire the best sword and shield you could buy in a shop only to use it for an hour or so before acquiring Erdrick's Armor/Sword at NO cost.

[PresidentLeever]

Extremely unlikely.

In fact, the games play quite a bit different. Zelda II has much more depth to its combat system. It's more of a "dueling" game seeing you're mostly in 1-on-1 fights, and many of the enemies are very good at blocking and take multiple hits. Battle of Olympus is more your standard adventure game combat fare - walk up to the enemy and stab it, with it dying in a hit or two.

Or it would have if you couldn't just use the 'jump and hit them in the face'-trick or the downthrust once you get it. Don't really have to duel any enemies except for some blue knights and bird knights after that.
BoO makes up for simpler combat with better graphics, and much better dialogue. Everyone has something useful to say and it doesn't take them 10+ seconds to say it.

[Baloo]

I thought the only bad part of Death Mountain was the fact that you had to trudge through two caves, swampland, and cross an annoying bridge before you got to Death Mountain. Other than that, it's not terribly difficult itself aside from the annoying hatchet throwers. The regular ones who don't throw them are easy to take out.

[bangtango]

Anyone who liked Zelda II (or Faxanadu) would also do well to try out Robin Hood Prince of Thieves for the NES. The animation in it is pretty ugly at times but the battle system, item system and overworld screens offer a few of the same "good" traits from Zelda II.

[YoshiM]

I always liked Zelda 2. I played the heck out of it when it came out, eventually beating the sucker.

The only real annoying thing for me is the trek you take to the final palace. If you're not careful/lucky you get slapped around pretty bad.

Oh yeah, and the "Simon Belmont Tumble" when you get hit and fall into a nearby pit.....gotta love that.

[Oobgarm]

Absolutely love Zelda II, my favorite Zelda title. (seeing that I've only played through it and LttP, still haven't had a serious play of the original yet)

I remember getting to the Great Palace as a kid and being totally overwhelmed. Went back to it many years later and finally finished it. Good times.

[tomaitheous]

I agree. For all we know in North America, Zelda II was originally some Doki Doki Panic game in Japan that got the Super Mario Bros. 2-esque makeover to get more sales.

For all we know? Not sure what you mean. We do know the origins of Zelda II. It's not a mystery.


I don't remember Zelda II getting much, if any, hate when it came out. I personally loved it and was glad it was a different from the first one (which I loved at the time as well). I think the hate came from later fans that were digging back into the library of the series. Little bitches can't handle the awesomeness that's Zelda II :)

[retroguy]

Zelda 2 isn't bad, but it's nowhere near my favorite in the series. My favorite is Wind Waker because they gave you an ENORMOUS world to run around in and once you get the boat you can spend weeks just exploring and not even bother with the plot (although I did and it is a truly epic one). After an experience like that, Twilight Princess was kind of a letdown (although I never played it myself. I saw a good chunk of the game watching my friend play and never felt like I was missing anything by not playing it).

[Zing]

I don't remember Zelda II getting much, if any, hate when it came out.

Of course it didn't get any hate during its release. People were scouring the city for a copy of the game. It, along with Super Mario 2, were the two most-wanted games of that holiday season. You had to be extremely lucky to even find a copy for the first few months.

I remember my mom went out shopping and I told her to check if the store had "Zelda 2". She came home empty handed saying the store didn't have it. She then casually mentioned that it had some sort of "adventures of link" game. I managed to convince her to take me to the store (I was 12 at the time) and luckily there was one copy left. We went to Pizza Hut afterwards and I read the instruction manual all the way home and even while in the restaurant.

[SpaceHarrier]

Rented it as a kid, and I guess I just thought the game was kind of 'weird' compared to the first one. I had never played a game with a map screen to battle screen changeover like that.

I enjoy it more now, though I've not completed it.

[vintagegamecrazy]

I don't think I'll ever tire of this game. I just played it tonight and finished the four heart and magic container challenge. Took me enough tries against the Thunderbird but I did it and I'm happy now!

[bangtango]

I don't remember Zelda II getting much, if any, hate when it came out. I personally loved it and was glad it was a different from the first one (which I loved at the time as well). I think the hate came from later fans that were digging back into the library of the series. Little bitches can't handle the awesomeness that's Zelda II :)

Didn't get any hate upon release from what I remember.

Frankly, I think some of the backlash started creeping in when the next two installments (Link to the Past & Link's Awakening) went back to the same overhead style of gameplay as the original, which resulted in an increasing number of people looking at Zelda II as an odd duck.

To some people, the fact that Nintendo scrapped the Zelda II design and never really used it again somehow meant Nintendo had admitted it had failed.

[Eternal Champion]

Now I regret selling my NES Classics edition.

[Aussie2B]

Didn't get any hate upon release from what I remember.

Frankly, I think some of the backlash started creeping in when the next two installments (Link to the Past & Link's Awakening) went back to the same overhead style of gameplay as the original, which resulted in an increasing number of people looking at Zelda II as an odd duck.

To some people, the fact that Nintendo scrapped the Zelda II design and never really used it again somehow meant Nintendo had admitted it had failed.

But Link's Awakening did have those side-scrolling parts. You even fight a couple bosses that way. Although with all of the goombas and such, it could be said that it's referencing Super Mario Bros. more than Zelda II. Or maybe even the item rooms in the first Zelda.

[old man]

I just remembered this fangame by konjak. Anyone who hasn't played it yet should definitely give it a go.

http://www.konjak.org/index.php?folder=4&file=11

[ccovell]

Didn't get any hate upon release from what I remember.

Frankly, I think some of the backlash started creeping in when the next two installments (Link to the Past & Link's Awakening) went back to the same overhead style of gameplay as the original, which resulted in an increasing number of people looking at Zelda II as an odd duck.

At least in my gaming circles, immediately after its release, kids criticized it. The wait had been so long, and the result so frustrating and "un-zelda-like" (noth that there's anything wrong with that per se.) Many gamers put fewer hours (playing, hunting, & discussing) into it than its predecessor.

[heybtbm]

So after 100+ posts, we've determined that the question posed ended up being bogus. An overwhelming contingent of DP'ers don't "hate" Zelda II and most of them actually like it. Glad to see common sense still alive and well here.

[NBaco]

Personally Zelda II is one of my favorite games in the series along with Majoras Mask. I dig the fact the game is heavier on the fighting. I don't know why some people hate it so much. Maybe it's the fact that it's different from the rest of the games in the series. As far as I know, the only game to use the same format as Zelda 2 was the Zelda CDI game "The Faces of Evil". And that doesn't exactly help Zelda IIs case...

I think that one of the main reasons the game is so hated is because like others have stated, there are points in the game where it just seems like Nintendo got carried away. Death Mountain being a good example. Unless you're really good, you'll need to power up a level or two before you can survive the onslaught of enemies. Most of my friends got stuck there and they regarded me as a hero because I got far enough to get the hammer. Yeah, they really sucked at games. They also praised me as a champion for beating Super C without a game genie.

The challenge didn't really bother me to be honest. Up until the last dungeon, I didn't have any real problems. I did get stuck on Thunderbird though. I didn't realize I had to use the Thunderspell on him...

This is unrelated to anything, but has anyone else noticed that a lot of the NES games with "2" or "II" in the titles did something different and ended up getting some hate for it? Mario 2 was different, Castlevania II was different, and then Zelda 2 was different. Hell, even Godzilla 2 was different from its first game. I guess the industry was going through puberty during that time and were "experimenting" with themselves.

[bangtango]

Personally Zelda II is one of my favorite games in the series along with Majoras Mask. I dig the fact the game is heavier on the fighting. I don't know why some people hate it so much. Maybe it's the fact that it's different from the rest of the games in the series. As far as I know, the only game to use the same format as Zelda 2 was the Zelda CDI game "The Faces of Evil". And that doesn't exactly help Zelda IIs case...

I think that one of the main reasons the game is so hated is because like others have stated, there are points in the game where it just seems like Nintendo got carried away. Death Mountain being a good example. Unless you're really good, you'll need to power up a level or two before you can survive the onslaught of enemies. Most of my friends got stuck there and they regarded me as a hero because I got far enough to get the hammer. Yeah, they really sucked at games. They also praised me as a champion for beating Super C without a game genie.

The challenge didn't really bother me to be honest. Up until the last dungeon, I didn't have any real problems. I did get stuck on Thunderbird though. I didn't realize I had to use the Thunderspell on him...

This is unrelated to anything, but has anyone else noticed that a lot of the NES games with "2" or "II" in the titles did something different and ended up getting some hate for it? Mario 2 was different, Castlevania II was different, and then Zelda 2 was different. Hell, even Godzilla 2 was different from its first game. I guess the industry was going through puberty during that time and were "experimenting" with themselves.


Can't win whatever you do. Always gonna be crybabies unhappy about how a company manages a series.

Either you get your butt reamed for being stagnant by remaking the same game over and over again like Sega was doing with Sonic (in the eyes of some people) on the Genesis or Capcom did with Street Fighter 2.

Otherwise you do things differently and get your butt reamed like Nintendo has from some people for Zelda II and SMB2 (which I'm well aware was a different game over in JPN), or like Konami did for Simon's Quest, by tight asses who hate change.

[Blitzwing256]

Zelda 2 was also one of the few games where it was actually improved on a great deal when it was "localized" for the us, lots of new things were changed and added (like a new boss for level 5) better graphics and a more balanced level up system.

[NBaco]

Can't win whatever you do. Always gonna be crybabies unhappy about how a company manages a series.

Either you get your butt reamed for being stagnant by remaking the same game over and over again like Sega was doing with Sonic (in the eyes of some people) on the Genesis or Capcom did with Street Fighter 2.

Otherwise you do things differently and get your butt reamed like Nintendo has from some people for Zelda II and SMB2 (which I'm well aware was a different game over in JPN), or like Konami did for Simon's Quest, by tight asses who hate change.

Amen to that.

[bangtango]

Zelda 2 was also one of the few games where it was actually improved on a great deal when it was "localized" for the us, lots of new things were changed and added (like a new boss for level 5) better graphics and a more balanced level up system.

What were they using for a Zelda II Level 5 boss over in Japan then?

And what sort of EXP point system did they have?

[Blitzwing256]

What were they using for a Zelda II Level 5 boss over in Japan then?

And what sort of EXP point system did they have?


in the japanese version you fight a weaker version of jenefencer (helmethead) in level 2 who only has one helmet that flies around, in the japanese version you fight the two helmeted version in level 5.

also in the japanese version you fight mazaru (horsehead) again next to the ilusionary wall instead of the blue ironknuckles.

they also redrew barba in level 6 so he's not quite so retarded looking.


in the japanese version you can choose what skill you level up in every time you gain enough exp (ie ou can spend your first 8 love costing levels all on attack if you want) the game will only save your levels if you are balanced (ie 2 2 2 in each level) if you were 2 1 3 when you die/save you go back to 1, alternatively if you have 5 5 6 when you save you go back to 5 5 5. max level is also easier to get to as max exp is only 4k insted of 9k

[Blitzwing256]

with all the zelda 2 talk I just decided to play straight through zelda 2, I never really had a problem with death mountain, but I remeber wasting so many lives in the last walk to the final palace.


well this time i beat the entire game with only dying once in level 4 (because I was too lazy to go back and get magic to go fight carrock)


still an amazing game to play, and it really is an improvment over the japanese original other than the poor late game leveling up.

next goal to beat it without dying once

[starsoldier1]

I'll love to see another Link style game as maybe a Wii ware download or 3DS title. I just revisited the game in a review and I still loved it:
http://youtu.be/zEPVe5nhe08

[aryoshi]

To me, it's a very misunderstood game. Most people who play Zelda I've noticed get the mindset that it's a game they can sort of speed through and jump from dungeon to dungeon, but this isn't that kind of game at all. It's a side-scrolling RPG that requires patience, grinding and lots of trial and error, sort of like Faxanadu. I can appreciate this kind of game and, while I admit I didn't catch onto the concept for a long time, once I did, I fell in love with Zelda II. It's easily up there as one of my favorite Zelda games and favorite games of all time.

[badinsults]

I just got it through the 3DS Ambassador program. Can't wait to play through again, though I wish the controls were configurable!

[NE146]

So after 100+ posts, we've determined that the question posed ended up being bogus. An overwhelming contingent of DP'ers don't "hate" Zelda II and most of them actually like it.

Heck, some like me think it's one of their most favorite video games ever. That's a little more than like it. :p

[XYXZYZ]

It does take a beating outside of DP though. But I see at least as many supporters as well.

I wonder what the Japanese consensus is on Link No Bouken. Did they ever get the updated version we got?

[bangtango]

I should revise my earlier comments and just take the following position concerning Zelda II haters.

People who don't like Zelda II hate it because Thunderbird or the Death Mountain monsters "sonned" some people who ain't very good at NES games and became these people's daddy.

[ButtonMasher123]

The thing that urks me about the criticisms I always hear about Zelda II is the dwelling on its perceived flaws rather than just looking at the game for what it is and does well.

Its like you don't hear people complain about the fact that you can't walk diagonally in Zelda 1 or that the combat is generally pretty easy and simple. Those could be considered flaws, but there is no reason to point that out because it really is just how they made the game and it works well so why bother.