Cadash and Carl Sagan?

[Nightowljrm]

So I was playing Cadash on my new Turbografx-16 just now. The dialogue is different in the arcade, Genesis, and TG16 versions of the game. In this version, I think they tried to go for a comedic twist, but failed...

After you defeat the boss the first time (who also has a different name in each version), you are warped back to the castle to discover that the king who sent you on this quest the whole time, was actually the enemy. So you fight him. But, as always, there's some cheesy dialogue... but I didn't expect this...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Mb393mE81_w/TlMyJHZCVuI/AAAAAAAAAFE/R7tdMkkQ7AM/s1600/cadashcarlsagan1.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Z2nTNk5-cHc/TlMyKjgRZnI/AAAAAAAAAFI/Giym8maGMM4/s1600/cadashcarlsagan2.png

That's actually what it says... It was so strange. The game had this moderately serious tone in their dialogue, but the first time you fight the boss, when he teleports away, he says "C'ya" as in "see ya"! What? ... Then this? And who the heck is Carl Sagan? That's what I wondered... Here's a link to the wikipedia page about him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan. Basically, he was an astronomer who believed in aliens. I don't understand how that has anything to do with "He who is strongest survives," but whatever.

I was still surprised to see something like this in the game. While I loved Cadash and playing it completely through, this... I don't know, seems to kind damage the experience for me, but yet, it makes me laugh, which enhances it... It's weird...

[Sunnyvale]

Wow, never expected to see a Sagan reference in a video game. He was alot more than an astronomer who believed in aliens. He was an avid skeptic, the first modern scientist to write books and produce films aimed at the layman (which caused him much trouble with his peers), and an outspoken atheist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkZNnD99Ap4

Check him out. The genius he was is missed by this geek :(

[j_factor]

Remember, this was published by Working Designs. I guess their style shone through even in their earliest, not-very-text-heavy releases.

[XYXZYZ]

I imagine the "strongest survives" remark is referencing the natural selection aspect of evolution, "survival of the fittest" and all that. Though I would have referenced Richard Dawkins for that one.

I have always hated Working Designs, the lame attempts at humor they smear all over the games they license always gave me the impression that they didn't actually give a damn about those games, and that they didn't take their jobs seriously.

[understatement]

Yea, I think that is in reference to Carl Sagan’s “Cosmos: A Personal Voyage” about the time that Cadash was being translated by Working Designs “Cosmos” was updated and being rerun on TV.

[Drath]

That is definitely a weird reference, although I guess Sagan did promote "He who is strongest, survives" in a sense. Also, I agree with Sunnyvale420 who suggests Carl Sagan was much more than "an astronomer who believe in aliens", haha!

[Nightowljrm]

I imagine the "strongest survives" remark is referencing the natural selection aspect of evolution, "survival of the fittest" and all that. Though I would have referenced Richard Dawkins for that one.

I have always hated Working Designs, the lame attempts at humor they smear all over the games they license always gave me the impression that they didn't actually give a damn about those games, and that they didn't take their jobs seriously.

1) That's exactly what I thought. It's more of a Richard Dawkins statement than it is Carl Sagan.

2) Yeah. The dialogue was fine up until the final boss. After the end of the first battle with the "C'ya!' comment I was like, "Okay..." but when this came along I was like, "What...?" I tried to laugh it off, but the more I meditate on it, the more annoying it becomes.

P.S. "The astronomer who believes in aliens" comment was just a light-hearted poke of fun. I realize he was much more than that, but still. :roll: Extremely random context for this game...

[Sunnyvale]

I agree that the quote would better be attributed to Dawkins than Sagan. However, Dawkins wasn't a household name at the time the game was made, and Sagan was.

Nightowl, sorry if I seemed offended by the astronomer comment. Not at all, you just said you'd never heard of him. Great topic for a thread, btw.

Edit: Carl Sagan make another unexpected (hilarious) appearance here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn7-fVtT16k

[R.Sakai]

Yeah, it's standard Working Designs screwing with stuff, the script on the Turbo version goes off the rails later in the game.
Can't remember specifics, something with the dog and the amulet in the fiery area, they got it all wrong and turned it into a big joke, wasn't it?

I always wondered how far off Genesis version was, but I just can't dig that port. (No priest FTL). I get up to the Gnomes and just go "eh, screw it" and turn it off :)

[Nightowljrm]

Yeah, it's standard Working Designs screwing with stuff, the script on the Turbo version goes off the rails later in the game.
Can't remember specifics, something with the dog and the amulet in the fiery area, they got it all wrong and turned it into a big joke, wasn't it?

I always wondered how far off Genesis version was, but I just can't dig that port. (No priest FTL). I get up to the Gnomes and just go "eh, screw it" and turn it off :)

Nah, the dog was actually necessary in the game to get some item that creates a bridge so you can cross the fire into the castle.

[kafa111]

Carl Sagan was awesome :D The theoretical physicist Michio Kaku is similar to him, for those of you that watch the science channel

[Sunnyvale]

Carl Sagan was awesome :D The theoretical physicist Michio Kaku is similar to him, for those of you that watch the science channel

Kaku is similar, for sure. Sagan was a bit more pragmatic, IMHO, but Kaku is close.

[xelement5x]

Oh Working Designs, doing what they do best...

[Jorpho]

Wow, never expected to see a Sagan reference in a video game.There's a famous story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Libel_dispute_with_Carl_Saga n) about how Apple once tried to internally code-name one of their machine models after Carl Sagan, and when he objected, they quietly renamed it the Butt-Headed Astronomer.

Not quite the same thing as a video game, though, I guess.

[Sunnyvale]

There's a famous story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Libel_dispute_with_Carl_Saga n) about how Apple once tried to internally code-name one of their machine models after Carl Sagan, and when he objected, they quietly renamed it the Butt-Headed Astronomer.

Not quite the same thing as a video game, though, I guess.

Thanks! I hadn't heard of this before. Never knew Sagan slogged it out in court at all...

[Greg2600]

Kaku is actually a leading scientist in his field, I don't know that Sagan ever was. I think he was more of a "teacher" to the world than a researcher. My high school Astronomy teacher actually loathed Carl Sagan, feeling he dumbed down science too much. I always thought of Sagan as more a philosopher than an astronomer. I never like "Cosmos," I felt it was boring and devoid of true knowledge. I listen to Dr. Kaku's podcast/radio show quite often, he speaks very intelligently and explains concepts quite well.

[Sunnyvale]

Kaku is actually a leading scientist in his field, I don't know that Sagan ever was. I think he was more of a "teacher" to the world than a researcher. My high school Astronomy teacher actually loathed Carl Sagan, feeling he dumbed down science too much. I always thought of Sagan as more a philosopher than an astronomer. I never like "Cosmos," I felt it was boring and devoid of true knowledge. I listen to Dr. Kaku's podcast/radio show quite often, he speaks very intelligently and explains concepts quite well.

I couldn't agree more, except the dumbing down of science. To those who are ignorant of scientific method and all that follows, the philosophical bent accomplished the goal he set out to achieve (from my perspective); Replacing superstitious notions of man's place in the universe with an equally amazing and humbling set of facts. Kaku is far more the researcher. Their views on alien life and sci-fi in general are similar, but beyond that, one taught while the other learns. Sagan is, IMHO, the man who laid the groundwork for the public careers of men like Richard Dawkins.

[mobiusclimber]

I have always hated Working Designs, the lame attempts at humor they smear all over the games they license always gave me the impression that they didn't actually give a damn about those games, and that they didn't take their jobs seriously.

Yes, thank you. The problem is the jokes are just generally not funny, and it's weird when the scene is supposed to be serious but the dialogue just screws it up.

[XYXZYZ]

Yes, thank you. The problem is the jokes are just generally not funny, and it's weird when the scene is supposed to be serious but the dialogue just screws it up.

I hate it when they put modern American pop cultural references in ancient-world type RPG games.


My high school Astronomy teacher actually loathed Carl Sagan, feeling he dumbed down science too much.

I don't see how you can introduce laypeople to complicated subject matter like astronomy without some pretty hefty reductions in complication.

I'm currently reading (listening to, actually) A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking. It's rather difficult for me to keep up with, I often have to go back and listen to a section two or three times before I understand it... it took a lot of youtube videos before I understood time dilation... that's some fascinating shit.

I'm also listening to Dawkins' book The Greatest Show on Earth, which is a great book about the evidence for evolution and how scientists know that it is true, how scientists figured out the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, and stuff like that. Again, fascinating stuff.

[WoodyXP]

Best Carl Sagan video ever right here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc

[Sunnyvale]

Best Carl Sagan video ever right here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc

I love that whole series!