Nokia N-Gage: What the hell? [Archive]

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hezeuschrist

07-19-2003, 03:40 AM

So the N-Gage is nearing release, and I have to ask just one question. Why?

Seriously, everyone who has had anything to say about this "platform" has only been full of negative comments, and you can even tell in writing about it they try hard to take a neutral standpoint but always come off negative. The thing sucks. $300 for a half-assed gameboy with lousy third party support and no name recognition? SIGN ME UP. Everyone who saw it at E3 said it sucks. Terrible controls, cramped by the cell-phone digit pad, tiny ass screen, what the crap were they thinking?

So if you were to try a new idea, and all you met was a brick wall of negative feedback, would you contine with your incredibly expensive idea? I'd take a second thought and say "Eh, maybe I was wrong and it's a crappy idea." I understand trying new stuff in the market is incredibly important, but this is just absurd. THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS. I could buy 2 Gamecubes! I could buy 3 GBA SP's! Who in the HELL will pay for that thing? (Other than the insane and overzealous collectors here :))

zmeston

07-19-2003, 11:07 AM

So the N-Gage is nearing release, and I have to ask just one question. Why?

Game developers are obsessed with the new frontier of cell-phone gaming at the moment -- Game Developer magazine, for example, recently introduced a bi-monthly mobile-gaming insert -- and Nokia is trying to capitalize on all the excitement. Unfortunately, the company knows jack-shit about the game industry, proven not just by the N-Gage's horrendous hardware design but its extremely disturbing E3 press conference, the lowlight of which was a pre-pubescent girl stripping off her shirt. (Andy Eddy detailed the disaster in his excellent "Biz Buzz" column for GameSpy.) The only real question in the industry at this point is how big the N-Gage is gonna flop.

-- Z.

zemmix

07-19-2003, 12:18 PM

I guess I'm insane then. I will be getting one but I will not be spending more than $100 for it. You have to remember that first and foremost it is a cell phone that just happens to be a game system too. Not the other way around. And as such you will probably be able to get them for a lot cheaper than $300 when you sign up for a new phone plan. That's what I am doing since my contract expired a year ago. The phone that I have now used to sell for $300 retail when I got it two years ago, but when I signed up for my plan I got it for $50.

I like the Ngage not just because of the gaming potential, but its a am/fm radio and mp3 player as well. Plus its Nokia and all of my Nokia phones last forever. Even having dropped my current one in the toilet once, it just keeps working. :D

Oberfuhrer Hamm

07-19-2003, 02:08 PM

Plus its Nokia and all of my Nokia phones last forever. Even having dropped my current one in the toilet once, it just keeps working. :D

Yeech, I would worry more about .... smell .... than damage, but that is just me.... ;)

hezeuschrist

07-19-2003, 04:30 PM

Yeah, it's also a cell phone but the way they are marketing it is Portable Gaming system first, cell phone second. Not only that, but I think anyone will look retarded with a GBA next to their ear.

Zaxxon

07-19-2003, 06:41 PM

Where are they marketing it? I haven't seen any ads anywhere.

hezeuschrist

07-19-2003, 11:19 PM

They're marketing it in Gamestop, EB, and Gamespot... not heavily, but they're taking preorders.

zektor

07-20-2003, 12:02 AM

Yeah, and with a $300 price t ag and screenshots that look like old old DOS games (take a look at the Tomb Raider port), I forsee this system dead in the water.

Drexel923

07-20-2003, 12:26 AM

I laughed my ass off when they were asked if they were worried about competing with the gameboy. They said that they weren't worried becuase they were aiming at the "cool" adult market and the gameboy is only for kids. They also said that people would be embarresed to play the gameboy in public but not the n-gage. LOL Absolute idiots. I give them a week until they call it quits.

hezeuschrist

07-20-2003, 01:10 AM

Rather fitting avatar for that post, Drexel.

Drexel923

07-20-2003, 02:05 AM

yeah.. it comes in handy every once and a while

ManekiNeko

07-20-2003, 07:06 PM

People are eating up the hype, though. Just read this for proof:

http://wireless.ziffdavis.com/article2/0,3973,1141512,00.asp

Your head will be spinning after you read this nonsense. I wrote the author to complain and he adamantly defends his ignorant beliefs. I just hope that he's wrong in saying that people are so concerned with their reputations that they'd be willing to slum with crappy cell phone games rather than playing good ones on a "children's system".

JR

Drexel923

07-20-2003, 07:24 PM

portnoyd

07-20-2003, 07:27 PM

Wow, that guy thinks that the PSP will have a battery life longer than 2 hours. And anyone will want to play NGage games. Funny.

dave

tssk

07-20-2003, 08:36 PM

bargora

07-20-2003, 09:43 PM

It seems to me that the writer of that article has not actually played games on a GBA/SP.

zmeston

07-21-2003, 01:49 AM

After seeing video of the e3 launch I concur. It will sell.

If the public want ports of seven year old PSOne games running at half the speed that they did originally at almost four-ten times the price.

The public hasn't demonstrated any hesitation about buying ports of 10-year-old Super NES games, so why not seven-year-old PlayStation games?

And, given the PSP's announced specs, what on Earth makes you think that PlayStation/PSone ports would run at "half the speed"? If anything, those specs indicate that PlayStation ports will run faster and smoother on the PSP than on their original hardware, as with SNES ports to the GBA.

-- Z.

zmeston

07-21-2003, 01:56 AM

Drexel923

07-21-2003, 10:35 AM

Thats the biggest thing I think is funny. You want to call the cube a kiddie system (which its not) then go ahead, you can look at some of the games and say well it looks like kids stuff. But you look at the GBA and even GameBoy in general and the huge library has so many diverse games that encompass all age groups. Plus I've seen more adults with the GBA than kids, especially when the SP came out.

The fact that Nintendo continues to be pigeonholed by mainstream journalists and consumers as a kid-oriented company, a decade after giving up its hardline family-friendly stance, is a huge problem -- but Nintendo doesn't help its case when its own leaders are declaring at E3 that "Mario will never shoot hookers," dismissing GTA and M-rated games as a passing fad.

-- Z.

I totally agree with you, I just find it funny that everyone is still using this same old "childrens system" attack. Its like all of those political ads you see on tv. If your system is so much better and your games trump your competitors then say that and tell us why. They obviously want to confuse stupid people and tell them becuase something is "cool" you have to buy it. It doesn't matter anymore what the product is, as long as it has the right image. And americans love it. If this keeps on going on much longer, than pretty soon were going to have nothing but shit games coming out...but at least they'll be "cool".

calthaer

07-21-2003, 12:38 PM

Unfortunately the sheer number of crappy games on the GBA means that Nokia doesn't have to do all that much to succeed. Not that I'm saying that they'll survive - a $300 price tag is insanely high (esp. when Xbox and PS2 are both under $200, AND when the GBA is $100 or less) and I don't see them coming out with any Mario-killer games to draw people to the system. But those Mario games are diamonds in the rough when it comes to the GBA - most of the games are slipshod pieces of licensed crap. If the Ngage has a few quality titles to rival the few quality titles on the GBA then they still don't have a chance, but if every game that comes out for it somehow is some shining paragon of awesomeness...

Point is, Nintendo will probably remain the leader, but it won't be because they're so super-good and smart. The GBA's software library largely sucks. Whatever happened to the "Nintendo Seal of Quality?"

Drexel923

07-21-2003, 12:43 PM

The GBA alone may have a lot of crappy games, but it can play all gameboy games. Thats a pretty big library of good and great games if you ask me. Plus like you said the price tag is really high. I really don't see them being sucessful at all, but I could be wrong.

bargora

07-21-2003, 02:20 PM

Of course Mario will never shoot hookers. That'd be more Wario-style. I could see "Don Mario" as a crime boss, though, ordering Luigi to "wack" Blinx or somethin'.

As far as the GBA library being crap. Whatever. There are at least two dozen excellent GBA games for the system, i.e., more than I can fit in my pocket. It's not like Mario's holding a baseball bat over my head and making me play "Tecmo Tea Time with Kasumi".

Of course, you'll be safer sticking to "grown-up" systems with all triple-A titles like Kabuki Warriors.

rbudrick

07-21-2003, 02:53 PM

extremely disturbing E3 press conference, the lowlight of which was a pre-pubescent girl stripping off her shirt. (Andy Eddy detailed the disaster in his excellent "Biz Buzz" column for GameSpy.)

Zmeston,

I couldn't find this anywhere in Gamespy's site....do you have a link to this? I would certainly like to read this...

-Rob

zmeston

07-21-2003, 03:02 PM

If the Ngage has a few quality titles to rival the few quality titles on the GBA then they still don't have a chance, but if every game that comes out for it somehow is some shining paragon of awesomeness...

Most everything shown for the N-Gage so far is much closer to the "bogus" end of the scale than the "awesome" end. Nokia doesn't understand the game industry, and hasn't attracted top-tier developers to try and work around the many flaws and limitations of the N-Gage hardware.

Casual cell-phone gamers, which is the good majority of them, play "Snake" and other five-minute time-killers. Anyone who wants a more involved and intense portable-gaming experience will already have a GBA (or, soon, a PSP). Nokia wants to capture the casual/mainstream market of cell-phone users, but they're trying to do it with the same kinds of games done better on dedicated portable systems.

Point is, Nintendo will probably remain the leader, but it won't be because they're so super-good and smart. The GBA's software library largely sucks. Whatever happened to the "Nintendo Seal of Quality?"

The "Seal of Quality" has always been more about control (taking a meaty chunk of third-party profits through manufacturing and licensing fees) than quality (avoiding the Atari 2600's library of shame). And even the crappiest game can hit the shelves with the proper politicial maneuvering -- how else do you think Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness was ever allowed to ship?

-- Z.

zmeston

07-21-2003, 03:10 PM

calthaer

07-21-2003, 03:59 PM

Of course, you'll be safer sticking to "grown-up" systems with all triple-A titles like Kabuki Warriors.

Out of your two-dozen titles, how many of those are SNES ports? Two-dozen out of 500 (or however many there are) still isn't a whole lot. The GB compatability is good, of course, but it's nothing that the GBC couldn't do. Why bother "upgrading?"

And the NGage will fail. It will not get a bunch of super-awesome titles to run on it, like everyone has said. IF it did then - and only then - would it stand a chance. Where did I ever say that I was going to play the "grown-up" Ngage? I'll be avoiding the over-priced cell phone just like everyone else and will be sticking with my GBA. I'm just making the point that the GBA is hardly a gaming godsend. If I wanted to play 10-year-old games on the go I have a laptop with emulators. I don't know - maybe I just expected the same number of quality new titles as the SNES had...new, I said - not the exact same games that the SNES had.

But I'm no Ngage fanboi, nor will I ever be. For crying out loud, Romero is behind it. Next time you attempt sarcasm you might try aiming it in the right direction.

bargora

07-21-2003, 05:42 PM

Of course, you'll be safer sticking to "grown-up" systems with all triple-A titles like Kabuki Warriors.

Out of your two-dozen titles, how many of those are SNES ports?
DISENGAGING SARCASM ENGINE

Advance Wars
Advance Wars 2
Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever
Bubble Bobble Advance
Car Battler Joe
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
Chu Chu Rocket
Columns Crown
Doom
Doom II
Duke Nukem Advance
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Golden Sun
Golden Sun 2
Gradius Galaxies
Hello Kitty: Miracle Fashion Maker
Iridion II
Klonoa: Empire of Dreams
Iridion II
Klonoa: Empire of Dreams
Konami Arcade Advance
Konami Krazy Racers
Metroid Fusion
Mario Kart Advance
Namco Museum
Pac-Man Collection
Pinball of the Dead
Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis
Sega Arcade Gallery
Space Channel 5
Super Puzzle Fighter II
Wario Ware

I am excluding fighting games because I don't like the control, and Pokemon because I haven't researched it at all. Charlie says Pokemon rocks, though.

Two-dozen out of 500 (or however many there are) still isn't a whole lot. The GB compatability is good, of course, but it's nothing that the GBC couldn't do. Why bother "upgrading?"

If I wanted to play 10-year-old games on the go I have a laptop with emulators.
If I wanted to throw a laptop in my pocket I have a pair of clown pants. I'd say it's probably over 50 good games if you want to throw in the SNES ports. And really, I doubt that most people ever get more than a couple of dozen games for any system, console or handheld. I know you like your GBA, but as long as there are enough good games to keep me (and most people) happy, the "batting average" doesn't really concern me. I mean, I don't sit around thinking about Kabuki Warriors when I'm playing Halo.

Although there may be an image problem for Nintendo (may be? LOL) if the public views their stuff as, what, "kiddie"?

I don't know - maybe I just expected the same number of quality new titles as the SNES had...new, I said - not the exact same games that the SNES had.

But I'm no Ngage fanboi, nor will I ever be. For crying out loud, Romero is behind it. Next time you attempt sarcasm you might try aiming it in the right direction.
Yes, new titles are good. But since I never owned a SNES back in the day, I'm actually not all that upset about playing SNES games on my GBA. :)

zemmix

07-22-2003, 01:08 AM

IGN put this article up today:

http://wireless.ign.com/articles/429/429653p1.html

Personally I do think the GBA has better games and is the better system. But my problem is that I don't always remember to grab my GBA when I go places. I do however always have my cell phone. So if I can replace my boring b&w celly for the Ngage then why not? Beats all the other phones on the market.

Oobgarm

07-22-2003, 02:07 PM

http://www.dustincarter.com/ngage.gif

I just LOVE their ad campaign... x_x -_- x_x

ManekiNeko

07-22-2003, 03:38 PM

"The fact that Nintendo continues to be pigeonholed by mainstream journalists and consumers as a kid-oriented company, a decade after giving up its hardline family-friendly stance, is a huge problem -- but Nintendo doesn't help its case when its own leaders are declaring at E3 that "Mario will never shoot hookers," dismissing GTA and M-rated games as a passing fad. "

Perhaps not, but there will ALWAYS be a market for Nintendo's games, even if they're not as controversial or well publicized as Grand Theft Auto and its sequels. It's my understanding that Nintendo has made a profit EVERY YEAR since the release of the NES, and that financial stability was the result of Nintendo doing what they do best, rather than chasing industry trends. Attack Nintendo all you want for the content of its games, but the simple fact is, they're making a lot of money, and they'll continue to make money well into the future.
I think WIRED's Chris Baker said it best (thanks to Kobun Heat for the quote, by the way)... "I think the this supposed massive demographic of 30-year old gamers is a myth on the level of 1998 when the prevailing thought was that people were going to line up to buy dog food online. Developers that are alienating children and their parents, that are purposefully shutting out the kids' market, are going to be FUCKED if that is true."

JR

zmeston

07-22-2003, 04:32 PM

Perhaps not, but there will ALWAYS be a market for Nintendo's games, even if they're not as controversial or well publicized as Grand Theft Auto and its sequels. It's my understanding that Nintendo has made a profit EVERY YEAR since the release of the NES, and that financial stability was the result of Nintendo doing what they do best, rather than chasing industry trends. Attack Nintendo all you want for the content of its games, but the simple fact is, they're making a lot of money, and they'll continue to make money well into the future.

I'm not saying Nintendo is foolish for putting a stranglehold on the pre-teen market, and I'm certainly not attacking the content of their games; as you say, they've been in the black forever. I'm just saying the company's attempts to grow beyond the pre-teen demographic, to lure in adult gamers as did Sega and Sony, have repeatedly failed. Analysts and competitors rightly perceive that as a weakness. And let's face it -- a device called the Game Boy is automatically handicapped in its efforts to draw an adult audience.

I think WIRED's Chris Baker said it best (thanks to Kobun Heat for the quote, by the way)... "I think the this supposed massive demographic of 30-year old gamers is a myth on the level of 1998 when the prevailing thought was that people were going to line up to buy dog food online. Developers that are alienating children and their parents, that are purposefully shutting out the kids' market, are going to be FUCKED if that is true."

The same magazine that did everything in its power to celebrate and perpetrate that myth, but I digress. Baker's theory can easily be proved false by the success of the teen- and adult-courting Sony PlayStation/PS2, and the M-rated games that turned Take 2 into the industry's second-largest publisher.

Is the adult-gaming demo larger than the pre-teen demo? I don't have the stats in front of me, so I can't say, but my hunch is no. Will the adult-gaming demo continue to grow? Of course. As more Americans grow up with videogames as an aspect of their social lives, more of them will continue to play videogames into adulthood, and they'll want games that complement their expanded emotional pallets. I certainly don't want a return to the glory days of the NES, when Nintendo forced the removal of "objectionable" content. That, to me, is why Nintendo has had such a hard time capturing the adult market; they never had faith in it.

-- Z.

ubersaurus

07-22-2003, 04:38 PM

So you have 50 good gba exclusive titles. Pokemon is really good, and I rather like the control on the fighters, but to each his own. Anyhow, when you add in the large number of pretty damn good GB and GBC games, you've easily got a 100 triple A titles for one handheld, and thats still not factoring in SNES ports. N-gage can't compete with that. It just can't. It's got the name recognizability of the neo geo pocket, but without the specs to compete with its competitors.

calthaer

07-24-2003, 02:21 PM

OK Oobgarm, the more I look at that foo' with the crazy chin as your avatar, the funnier it gets. So I have to know: where did you get that crazy advertisement with him on the skateboard and the NGage? Did you add that text yourself or was that how it came?

EDIT: OK never mind - I found it - hahaha check this one out. I just couldn't resist cooking it up.

http://www.geocities.com/calthaer/ngagnarc.txt

Saturn Sensei

07-25-2003, 02:11 PM

On Edge magazine's E3 DVD Miyamoto-san stated that he thought it was more convenient to have a separate gaming and phone device. That is asinine, idiocy, and an oxymoron. Irrespective of specs or anything else, convergence will and should happen in the handheld space. I rarely bring my GBA, except for on longer trips. I bring my cell-phone EVERYWHERE.

hezeuschrist

07-25-2003, 11:56 PM

Try putting your GBA to your head and see how cool you look and how incredibly comfortable it is.

Tom61

07-26-2003, 01:06 AM

Try putting your GBA to your head and see how cool you look and how incredibly comfortable it is.

About the same as the average 'candy bar' phone IMO. Plus, there are these things called 'headsets' which are like headphones, but have a microphone on them, that way you can talk on the phone without actually having the phone anywhere near your head. :P

ManekiNeko

07-26-2003, 11:51 AM

"I rarely bring my GBA, except for on longer trips. I bring my cell-phone EVERYWHERE."

Well, that's you. Not everyone's got the big bucks to invest in a cell phone and calling contract, and not everyone is interested in being bothered every fifteen minutes while away from their home phones. I don't need- or want- to be chained to a phone 24 hours a day, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Besides, even if I did have a cell phone, I'd use it for its intended purpose... communication. If I wanted to play a great game, I'd bring along a device specifically intended for that purpose.

JR

slurpeepoop

07-26-2003, 01:01 PM

And let's face it -- a device called the Game Boy is automatically handicapped in its efforts to draw an adult audience.

Wrong.

The Game Boy is a brand icon, drawing the same kind of name recognition as Coke or Ford. Just because La-Z-Boy has boy in its name doesn't mean middle-aged people shrug it off as "kiddie".

Everyone knows what a Game Boy is.

Before she died, my 80+ year old grandmother called every kind of handheld (including my cell phone and my graphing calculator) a Game Boy.

Personally, I think Nintendo singlehandedly retarded the natural technological evolution of handhelds, and if the Game Boy had not completely dominated over the last 14 years, we would have MUCH more advanced technology than the off-the-shelf generic 15 year old parts in the GBA.

Having said that, I love my GBA SP, but I can't wait for ANYONE (I don't care who it is) to actually make Nintendo work to keep their 95% marketshare. Once there is a real contender to compete with the Game Boy, you'll see technological strides you never thought possible.

hezeuschrist

07-26-2003, 01:22 PM

I don't need a cell phone with a big enough screen to handle serious games, nor does anyone else. That, and I'll fucking die before I use a headset, if I had one wish, and I could use that wish to wish for more wishes, I would use it to punch everyone in the throat who comes into a public place wearing a headset or earbud cell phones. Jesus Christ.