The definition of "New"

[zektor]

I always thought "New" when it came to video games was never opened, never touched my human hands, never played. Seems something has been lost along the lines of what people consider new...at least when it comes to some game stores. Let me explain. I recently went to an EBGames in Wayne, NJ (Willowbrook Mall) and purchased a copy of Namco Museum for the Gamecube. The game was advertised as new. I brought the display box to the counter and asked for the game. Well, the employee takes the box opens a drawer, and pulls the game out which is contained in a zip lock bag with the instructions. He then carelessly grabs the disc and slaps it into the display box and rings me up. I casually say to him "I guess that is the last one", but he says nothing except to ask for the balance. I'm kind of annoyed but I pay anyway, because I did want the game. I bring it home and it plays ok, but I notice that the disc is COVERED with scratches on the underside. To me this is just not acceptable for a so-called "New" game. I then proceed to call other EBGame stores and EBX stores locally/semi-locally and finally find one that has the game so I can exchange mine. They claim it is new as well. This time it is the EBX in the Garden State Plaza Mall in Paramus, NJ (about 45 minutes from me). A bit of a drive, but I go anyway. When I finally get there the manager pulls out the disc. Same deal, ziplock baggie, but this time the game is even WORSE than the one I am currently trying to exchange. Basically, it looked like someone rubbed it on the concrete sidewalk outside for an hour. She then says "Well, seems like your copy is better, you might as well keep it". Bah, screw them. I ended up exchanging it finally at a KB Toys (even tho I didn't purchase it there...but they don't know that!) for Tetris Worlds since they didn't have Namco Museum and the price value was the same. Well, while I am there the KB employee tried to do the same thing to me. The same "pull a disc in a baggie out of the drawer" ordeal. I had noticed that Tetris Worlds was in the display case behind the counter new and sealed, and promptly made reference to that as the employee was trying to give me some garbage about the baggie copy being the last copy they had. She said "Oops, it's been a long day". I bet. Don't try to pawn off your used garbage on me. Later I went to a Planet X (Gamestop) and found a new, sealed, never opened copy of Namco Museum and I am happy about that. But these places that open the game, get their grubby handprints on it, possibly play around with the game...they are just a joke. It is unethical and I believe it is fraud to sell a used game as new. I don't care what they say, the second they open it the game is used...whether it has been played or not...and it should be sold as used, not new.

My rant has ended...I suppose >:(

[maxlords]

Honestly, that should be illegal. Someone needs to file a class action suit about this....once a game is opened, it's NOT new! I do the same thing...and I won't buy an opened copy if they call it new. Fortunately, the local EB is pretty careful and they replace their baggies a lot. That helps. Plus, I have a friend there and know the manager too, so they help me out...they know I'm picky :) But really, if it has a scratch on it, it shouldn't be sold as new, period. You're not the only one!

[Drexel923]

I've only bought a display copy of a game once and the disc was flawless. I guess it depends on the store as to if they take care of the game. But your right, its BS to sell a game new if its got scratches all over it. I'd check the disc before you leave the store. If its scratched, I wouldn't buy it, I'd just go somewhere else.

[zektor]

It doesn't even matter if the game is flawless. You can buy a used game that is "flawless". The whole point is that it has been opened. The original seal from the factory has been broken. I love when I get a new game and I open it. I'm the first and only person to lay hands on the game, and that's what I pay for when I buy a new product....no matter what it is. Imagine if you went to the supermarket and bought a gallon of milk that had the seal torn off it....but the employee said to you: "well, it was never used, so it's new". It wouldn't fly there, and while we are talking about a whole different ballgame, it isn't that much different. Maxlords, you are right, someone should file a case or at least do SOMETHING about this. I think I just may...

[maxlords]

You're right with your gallon of milk comparison. And honestly, I can't think of hardly ANY other retail store that would do that. Only bookstores that I can think of, and even they don't do that sometimes. Record stores don't do it, you don't find DVDs like that, or department stores, or electronics stores, or really, any other places that do it besides game stores, and it sets a REALLY bad precedent. I think that there REALLY might be a case there for consumer fraud of some sort.

[Starcade]

I had that happen at Gamestop also, I bought Mad Maestro (new), but yet he pulled it out of this white sleeve thingie and stuck it in the case.

The only reason I didn't say anything is because the disk was mint condition, plus it only cost me 10 bucks, so, whatever.

[DDCecil]

Our local EB has been doing that for years, re-wrapping used games and selling them as NEW. Another of the MANY reasons I stay far way from there...

[Arrrhalomynn]

This happens at practically all stores here. It sucks, but there's nothing you can do about it. The only way to get a sealed copy is buying it off the internet or go to a select number of specialized game stores, that aren't easy to find.

The people selling these think it's ok if the game works. 'You can still play it, right?'. Yeah, I can but....

[docpan]

Yeah, I have had that trick pulled on me before too. So damned annoying to pay full price for an opened, scratched item.

[AB Positive]

Having worked at a Gamestop I know there isn't much to do about it. New games typically get 4 display copies, brought down to one when they've been out for a while. At least at the stores I worked at, we took damn good care of what we sold that was gutted, but then again most of the workers there collect to some minor degree.

You just have to find a retail store that's managed and run by people that care about the games themselves and you should be dealt with properly day in and day out.

-AG

[kainemaxwell]

My local gamestops and EB stores do that except most the time they have a cd case they keep everything in and if the game doesn't have a case, they give u a cheapo paper case or one those plastic thin cases. Most them in my local stores eithe rknow me by face or name now and know I watch them when they take the games out of whatever holders they got into the game cases.

[hezeuschrist]

I think it's horsefeathers as well, but really what can they do about it? The games HAVE to be displayed or they wouldn't get business. The larger retail chains have huge display cases and bigass locks for their new games, but when you go into gamestop or EB you HAVE to be able to take a look at the back of the case.

I think Gamestop has the right idea with printing up insert copies for the used games they have, except they should do that for new games. Get an email from corporate with pdf files with the cover images in them, put a copy machine in the store, blammo. Case on shelf, every copy stays sealed.

I haven't had any problems with it as I REALLY try to avoid paying full retail for any game no matter what, so 9 times outta 10 I end up buying used. The only game I've recently bought new was Wild Arms 3 for $20 at EB, I got the last copy and the disc was immaculate, along with the instruction book and the employee was careful about it.

What REALLY pisses me off though is when I buy the occasional used game at gamestop/eb, I ask if I can take a look at the disc and it looks great, then the snotty little shit behind the counter fingerprints the fuck out of it and downright throws it into the case. What the hell?

[Griking]

Gamestop does the same thing and I think it's bullshit as well.

If I'm being sold a game that's being called "new" I expect it to still be factory shrinkwrapped and never opened before.

I made a stink about this the other day at my local Gamestop. I argued that since the game I wanted was previously opened it was considered used and therefore should be included in the "Buy 2 get 1 Free" special that they're having.

I've sent a few letters to corporate already about this but never received a response.

[The Manimal]

I've bought four games like that in my life.



1st at a Babbages (now EB games) in 97 or so, I got 'NHL '96' for Game Boy....they used the display box (with the sticker on the box).


2nd, 3rd, and 4th were at GameStop/Funcolands....in a two day span. I wanted to pick up Final Fantasy Legend I, II, and III new for Game Boy since they were reissued and I held off buying them for far too long. Found Legend I for $14.99, they used the display box, which had a very small tear on the box. I also got Legend III for $14.99 at a different GameStop...and it was a display box also :( Didn't find Legend II, but I wanted Megaman and Bass for GBA...and got it for $29.99. Figured it's a brand new game...they HAVE to have several copies available. Guess what?! they used the display box for this also! If I would have expected that, I would have not bought it. I don't know what I was thinking, I should have looked elsewhere. But as far as those FFL games...even on eBay you will pay $10 more for a used complete copy.




I'm going to be more careful of this (you screw up the box trying to remove that $29.99 >>NEW<< sticker the have on there. :roll:

[l_lamb]

Blockbuster tested selling new full-price games. We were able to get 3 or 4 pieces of artwork for each version of each title shipped to each store with no problem. I even got artwork for the Xbox Star Wars: Knights game this week. This does not include the retail cases that we open for rental. Why Gamestop and EB can't get extra artwork to their stores when Blockbuster could is beyond me. They should have much better relationships with the publishers than Blockbuster.

(It also means that I have lots of extra art now that we've gotten out of the high-priced games) :)

[AB Positive]

Gamestop does the same thing and I think it's bullshit as well.

If I'm being sold a game that's being called "new" I expect it to still be factory shrinkwrapped and never opened before.

I made a stink about this the other day at my local Gamestop. I argued that since the game I wanted was previously opened it was considered used and therefore should be included in the "Buy 2 get 1 Free" special that they're having.

I've sent a few letters to corporate already about this but never received a response.

You won't get a response. The games, while opened, are often never been played. Having never been used, it's still legally 'new' and they can do it. Trust me, I've been on both sides of the argument and GameStop has the legal right to do so. Further argument will only cause the people behind the counter to hate you, your friends and your family. Not to sound like a jerk, but you're the kind of customer that retail people dread like the plague. Well, this and the people that come in saying "THE PS2 IS THE GREATEST SYSTEM EVER! XBOX SUCKZORS!" and I spell it like that because it was pronounced like that.


Anyone, repeat ANYONE trying to pronounce l33t in front of me without obviously being sarcastic will get slapped upside the head, no exceptions.

-AG

[SoulBlazer]

Seems like only a issue with collectors and not players. I've also gotten a few display copies of the game, and as long as it plays well I'm happy. I have a Game Doctor in case anything does happen at some point in the future. And I never bother taking price tags off if they are stuck on the case or book. In a few cases, it's a badge of honor.....like the hint book for Star Ocean 2 I sold last month for $55 that still had the sticker for $14.95 on it. Sucker! LOL

[Griking]

Seems like only a issue with collectors and not players.

I don't really see it this way. While theres the rare exception where you want a game unopened because of it's collectability, it pisses me off the most because all of their sales (2 for 1) as well as their discount card are only valid on used games.

I'd say that it's an issue for people who don't want to overpay for their games as well.

[SoulBlazer]

Well, I can see why it may be a issue, it just almost never applies to me because I get my console games almost ALWAYS in one of two ways -- either buying them brand new (having them pre-ordered, and getting the first day, shrinkwrapped) or buying it used on Amazon (where I can get better prices).

Of course, the condition from people on Amazon varries, but everything has been playable and it's a nice way to save some money. :-D

Not that I have'nt walked into stores and bought games on impulse -- most recently done when I saw a used copy of Xenosaga at my local EB. But as I said in my original post, the few times I've gotten a 'display copy' have been just fine for me.

On average, though, I only get about one console (including handheld) games a month, as compared to two or three PC games. (but recently EB has started to carry used PC games as well -- but you KNOW those are used).

Okay, enough off the subject. ;)

[Lost Monkey]

EB has been re-shrinking and selling used games as new for years. My "new" Kasumi Ninja, which I purchased back in 95 had a 3 month old sales receipt from a store 6 states away tucked into the manual, despite the fact that they assured me it was new stock.

[scooterb23]

I'm not a fan of them keeping their new games separate from the cases on the wall, but they have to try to have some level of security (without spending a ton of money on security tags and detectors) I guess...

If I need to buy new games, the only places I'll ever go are Best Buy, or the mom and pop stores (that sell their new games $5 cheaper than retail :) ) that put crappy looking printed boxes out on the shelves, and keep the minty new games behind the counter.

That way I'll always be sure of getting a new, sealed game :)

[kevincure]

Here at my Blockbuster, we still sell new games, and we use the display art mentioned above. I don't what's so hard about this. I'm sure Gamestop/EB lose some bills from their policy - for instance, if I were buying a game for a gift, I sure as well want it to be new, you know? And by new, I mean factory sealed, not Gamestop's "War is Peace" new.

[rbudrick]

EB did this to me once...I didn't notice until I was 30 miles away, back home. I had to trek my ass back there the next day and return it. The gave me a sealed one without even batting an eyelash. Hey at least if you buy a crappy game, you can turn the tables on them by returnign it and saying it was open, and maybe trying to get a different game. Hey, if they're gonna try to fuck you, fuck em back.

-Rob

[junglehunter]

I bought Shenmue II from EB recently. I took a look at the used game compared to the new game, and the used copy was in better condition. The guy was like, "why don't you buy it new, it's only 3 more dollars." And I said no because the used copy is in better condition. I hate how they also make 2 discs for a game fit into one of those cheap holders. I've seen a lot of cases where that is done and the game is put through shit because of it. >:(

[AB Positive]

I bought Shenmue II from EB recently. I took a look at the used game compared to the new game, and the used copy was in better condition. The guy was like, "why don't you buy it new, it's only 3 more dollars." And I said no because the used copy is in better condition. I hate how they also make 2 discs for a game fit into one of those cheap holders. I've seen a lot of cases where that is done and the game is put through shit because of it. >:(

I defended the stores in my last post, here's where I turn the tables.

1) What retard suggests the new game over the used? Yes, new is a higher price but used has the BETTER PROFIT MARGIN. If you work at a store selling used and new YOU PUSH USED. Used games keep the company afloat. This person is a moron.

2) The asst. manager at the store I got promoted to would do the multi-disk-in-one-sleeve thing. I literally kicked him. I had to go through our ENTIRE used PSX section (and if you've seen the used PSX wall o' doom, you know that's a lot of games) and switch each multi-disc game to separate sleeves. The manager at the time thought it was funny that a keyholder was telling the asst. off. Bastard deserved it.



I will defend the display copy to the hilt, especially because stores are supposed to be careful as hell about the discs, like I always was. If you ever got a 'last copy' from me, it was in damn pristine condition. However, all this other junk is people being lazy and dumb. Pisses me off.


-AG

[chadtower]

They're idiots. In any other retail segment this would not be legal. Security isn't an issue. You open one copy, put the box up for display. You have people bring the display box up to the counter, you reach into a drawer, and you pull out a new, sealed copy and give it to the customer. How fucking hard is that to do? I never buy new games because I don't have any current systems but I would never accept an unsealed copy of something I was buying new. Hell, if I opened a resealed copy and found it less than pristine I'd take it back.

The statement that only game stores do this, though, is false. I can't tell you how many times I've bought things and they were obviously used and returned to the shelf. I bought an inflatable ball pit for my kids a couple of years ago that was clearly used, it wasn't even in the package properly and half the balls were gone. I took it back and got a second one, THIS ONE WAS COVERED IN DOG HAIR. SMELLY, WET FUCKING DOG ODOROUS HAIR. Needless to say, when I took that one back I reamed the manager a good one and almost made him wet his pants. I hate this crap. New is new, sealed, unused in any way. Anything else is not a new retail item.

[Cranduit]

There is one entire industry that everyone uses that sells everything new even if it is returned. That is the clothing industry. If someone takes a shirt off the shelf and tries it on it should be used by definition, but it's not. I ususally just ask. If the game isn't sealed I can wait unless I really want it.

[Achika]

There is one entire industry that everyone uses that sells everything new even if it is returned. That is the clothing industry. If someone takes a shirt off the shelf and tries it on it should be used by definition, but it's not. I ususally just ask. If the game isn't sealed I can wait unless I really want it.


X_x I think that was summed up perfectly. I don't hear anyone complaining that someone last week tried on a pair of shoes you just bought today.


If you notice the employee putting into a case (i.e. you're getting the last one) THEN DON'T BUY IT. Exercise your right to boycott a company that does that, just don't buy it then complain. :/ Personally it's not really fair to me when someone gets in my face because of the company practice that I have to follow. I carefully put the games away, but I WON"T be held responsible for what my co workers do. I only carry the weight of what I do in my store on my shoulders, no one elses.