Genesis and SNES sound chip strengths and weaknesses

[Wraith Storm]

I have heard tons of arguments over the years from people saying that Genesis music is better than Super Nes music or vice versa. There have been countless threads compiling "Bad Ass" game music that is "way better than anything the other system has to offer".

I have also seen plenty of threads comparing songs from the same games on each system, but I rarely find that to be a convincing argument. Usually one of the systems was the primary development system and then the game just gets ported to the other. I don't think any company was a master of both Genesis and Snes and put an equal amount of effort into developing the same games for each systems strengths.

I really, Really, REALLY love Genesis music and will defend it to my grave, but I also can't deny that the Snes gave me some of the most beautiful, moving, unforgettable soundtracks of all time.

I saw a thread a while back where a someone mentioned that the Genesis doesen't have anything that can compete with some Snes songs like Final Fantasy 3's Phantom Forest and some of Chrono Triggers stuff. As much as I hated to admit it, he was absolutely correct.

It got me really thing about the strengths and weaknesses of both the Genesis and Snes sound chips. Here is what I personally feel after years of jamming to Genesis and Snes music.

I feel the Genesis really excels at Techno, Dance and Metal music. Especially when the composer is using a custom sound driver. This, I’m sure, is due to the nature of the systems Yamaha synthesizer sound chip. But other styles of music fall far behind. Sure there are always exceptions and lots of other music that sounds good on the Genesis, but I feel it does Techno, Dance and Metal far better than anything else it has to offer and better than the Snes can. One thing is for certain however, no matter what kind music is pumping out of the Genesis, it has a cold, mechanical feel to it. It always sounds like computerized chip music, again, because of the YM synth chip.

The Super Nes seems to perform just about all types of music very well, but it really shines with ambient and orchestral music, something that the Genesis just can't compete with. On the flip side, I know that I am not the only person to feel that a lot of the Snes music sounds a bit muffled. It still sounds great, but its as if there is a thin pillow over the speaker. As a result I have never heard a Snes game sound as clean and clear as a Genesis game (voice samples aside :)). Oddly, no matter what kind of music the Snes is playing it always has a soft warm feeling to it. Even if its just a thin layer surrounding the song. One thing is for certain, it doesn’t have the cold, mechanical feel that the Genesis has.

So what I would like to achieve in this thread are links to videogame music that you feel best represent the Genesis and Snes sound chips. Good music is good music, but that’s not why I created this thread. I am looking for stuff that plays the strengths of the systems sound chip and one that you think the other system would have a hard time replicating.

Also I would like to link to songs that challenge common misconceptions. Are there Snes games that can produce clear, deep, heavy bass as good as the Genesis? Is there any Genesis game that can perform ambient or orchestral music to give the Snes a run for its money?

I don't want this to become a generic "best of music" thread, because that is ultimately in the ear of the beholder.

Let’s make this as informative as possible and give reasons for your selected songs. I want this to be a knowledge base of sorts for what these sound chips were and were no so capable of.

Streets of Rage 2 - (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXQzyVy9fYM) We'll start with a classic one. Despite plagiarizing the Enigma song Sadeness it is an amazing feat of programming. Deep, clear bass, smooth beats, very crisp snare drum. This is what the Genesis sound chip was meant for and I don't think the Snes can replicate the bass or clarity of the song.

Streets of Rage 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh_bV7gD0co&feature=BFa&list=PL8335D5F0A2E63B21&lf=results_main)- The music is nowhere near as catchy as the first two game but that doesn't mean its any less impressive. The first time I heard this I couldn't believe it was coming out of my Genesis. Like the music on the first level, this sounded like something I would hear at a rave. This stuff is VERY high quality. After all these years It still blows me away. It sounds like something from Saturn or Playstation. I don't think the Snes could touch this song or soundtrack.

Adventures of Batman and Robin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95WWtCAitKE&fmt=18) - Here is another track. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMfLhDFT8Uk&feature=BFa&list=PLC07EBC6571E991CD&lf=rellist) Both these songs have amazing use of stereo direction, crisp snares, a clean sound and apparently did not use the PSG chip at all. Another example of where the YM chip dominates.

Plok (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzRjk6Ioqd0) - Until a few days ago I didn't think the Snes had anything that could stand up to the Genesis as far as techno is concerned. I just discovered this song and found it to be extremely impressive. There is a lot going on here with voice samples, decent thumping bass, some cool stereo direction and just overall a catchy composition. This song could potentially give the old Genesis a run for it's money if not for the entire thing sounding muffled. It just doesn't have the clarity and punch of the Genesis, but regardless its some impressive stuff that the Genesis would probably struggle with. Like the voice samples for instance, but where the music itself is concerned the Genesis could handle it no problem.

Final Fantasy 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzRn52Zf5b8) - The Genesis just can't do orchestral pieces. It could probably do a decent job at some of the simpler pieces like this. Comix Zone showed us the Genny could do some decent acoustic guitar sounds and we know it could handle the bass plucks, but it would certainly not sound as rich or as full bodied. The complaint some people have about the Genesis sounding "tinny"... I think that description would apply here if we ever heard a Genesis version.

Okay. I have spent the last three hours typing this. It's time for me to sleep, but I will add some more examples later and will be cross posting this on Sega-16 and possibly some other sites.

As I said earlier, let's try and be professional, informative and as non biased as possible here. I look forward to other examples!

[Sabz5150]

Steel Empire. That one really shows off the ability of the Genesis to make good music. The tracks are great and they don't all "sound the same". They also fit their respective stages quite well. Most of them also sound more instrumental than electronic.

[Cloud121]

Streets of Rage 2 - (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXQzyVy9fYM) We'll start with a classic one. Despite plagiarizing the Enigma song Sadeness it is an amazing feat of programming. Deep, clear bass, smooth beats, very crisp snare drum. This is what the Genesis sound chip was meant for and I don't think the Snes can replicate the bass or clarity of the song.

Wow, I never noticed that. Having just discovered Enigma a year ago (My oldest friend of 17 years and I were on a nostalgia kick, listening to music from our childhoods), the similarities are there.

To quote my best friend: "It's like it's having sex with your brain!"

[Atari 5200]

Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Sonic & Knuckles. I've always noticed that these games sound nothing like the typical "genesis sound". The music is just so unlike so many genesis games, these pop up every time I hear crappy genesis music and wonder WTF? They sound clean, original, and always catchy.

Flying Battery Zone, Metropolis Zone, Chemical Plant...I could go on and on.

[Wraith Storm]

Steel Empire. That one really shows off the ability of the Genesis to make good music. The tracks are great and they don't all "sound the same". They also fit their respective stages quite well. Most of them also sound more instrumental than electronic.

Awesome game. I always loved Steel Empire and thought it was among the best shooters on the Genesis. Similar to Wings of Wor, Steel Empire breaks away from the usual sci-fi space opera shooters. Its steam punk setting is still unique almost 20 years later... but as much as I played the game I don't remember the music really standing out in any way.

Looks like I now have a good reason to replay it. :)



Wow, I never noticed that. Having just discovered Enigma a year ago (My oldest friend of 17 years and I were on a nostalgia kick, listening to music from our childhoods), the similarities are there.

To quote my best friend: "It's like it's having sex with your brain!"

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOIkvOXM8Pw)is a really good video where they play both SOR2 and Sadeness on top of each other.


Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Sonic & Knuckles. I've always noticed that these games sound nothing like the typical "genesis sound". The music is just so unlike so many genesis games, these pop up every time I hear crappy genesis music and wonder WTF? They sound clean, original, and always catchy.

Flying Battery Zone, Metropolis Zone, Chemical Plant...I could go on and on.

The compositions are excellent. Especially when you have a band like "Dreams Come True" compose the sound track for the first 2 games. The quality of the compositions however, I don't think are anything that special. Like you say, they certainly don't sound like most other Genesis games, but I don't think I have ever paused and said "Wow! I can't believe my Genesis is playing this song." As far as song composition, they are some of the best on the Genesis. They just aren't as technically accomplished as some other Genesis music.

[Aussie2B]

Keep in mind, guys, people make music, not hardware. If you think a game/system has good music, you have the composer/s to thank much, MUCH more than the hardware. Composers have created amazing music on weaker hardware, and composers have made trash even on current systems. If someone's argument is that Genesis doesn't have anything like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger, then, well yeah, because I don't believe Uematsu or Mitsuda ever did a Genesis soundtrack. There are some composers that worked with both, but many didn't. Even if a composer did, they often were more comfortable with one over the other.

In terms of hardware capabilities, they produce their audio in very different ways. The SNES simply plays back samples, while the Genesis actively modulates the frequencies. The FM synth of the Genesis allows for sounds that are more organic, which is great for bass and percussion. Its meatier, punchier sound isn't particularly beneficial to orchestral scores, true.

[old man]

Light Crusader by treasure has some really nice orchestral sounding tunes in it. There is a ton of good music for the Genesis though. I think, generally, that devs who had previous experience in arcade games had a more consistent track record for making good sounding games. Most of the 80's early 90's arcade boards used FM chips like the Genesis. So experience counts.

On the SNES MegaManX's sound track had a really inspired synth rock sound to it. I think it held it's own against some of Techno Soft's best on the Genesis. It's a shame the music seemed to get worse and worse with the sequels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkGroUOEsk

[j_factor]

I feel the Genesis really excels at Techno, Dance and Metal music.

The Super Nes shines with ambient and orchestral music

This sums it up pretty well, and also sums up why I strongly prefer the Genesis sound. With all due respect to Brian Eno, ambient puts me to sleep. It may be perfectly fitting during a game, but it's not the type of thing I would ever go out of my way to listen to. Same goes for orchestral. John Williams makes wonderful film scores, but I'm not putting them on my playlist.

So while I think the SNES has plenty of good-sounding games, it has very little of what I would call great music. On another board there's a thread asking for one's top 100 songs from games (all systems/eras), and I'm still working on my list, but so far I have a lot more Genesis than SNES on there. Of course, that isn't exactly the hardware's fault, but the hardware has a part in it.

[Bloodreign]

If you've listened to Darius 2/Sagaia on the Genesis, you swear it's like an orgasm in a cart, the music IMO is that good when done by the right people.

[Wraith Storm]

Keep in mind, guys, people make music, not hardware. If you think a game/system has good music, you have the composer/s to thank much, MUCH more than the hardware. Composers have created amazing music on weaker hardware, and composers have made trash even on current systems. If someone's argument is that Genesis doesn't have anything like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger, then, well yeah, because I don't believe Uematsu or Mitsuda ever did a Genesis soundtrack. There are some composers that worked with both, but many didn't. Even if a composer did, they often were more comfortable with one over the other.

I completely agree. To repeat part of my OP.

Good music is good music, but that’s not why I created this thread. I am looking for stuff that plays the strengths of the systems sound chip and one that you think the other system would have a hard time replicating.

So, I am not really looking for a masterpiece of a song. I am looking for music that has sounds and effects that REALLY shine. Although if the song happens to be a masterpiece as well then that's awesome! :)

Also I would like to link to songs that challenge common misconceptions. Are there Snes games that can produce clear, deep, heavy bass as good as the Genesis? Is there any Genesis game that can perform ambient or orchestral music to give the Snes a run for its money?

I never used to think the Genesis could do good ambient music, but over on Sega-16 they have linked to some good stuff. Some of them have VERY impressive sounds that I didn't think were possible on the Genesis.

There are even a few songs that have been quite impressive as far as orchestral stuff is concerned, but still nothing to match the Snes.


If you've listened to Darius 2/Sagaia on the Genesis, you swear it's like an orgasm in a cart, the music IMO is that good when done by the right people.

I love Darius games but I never liked Sagaia. I dont think I have ever pushed myself past the second stages, so I never really had a chance to listen to much of the sound track. What was impressive about it? The instrument sets? The bass?

Remember, I am not looking for solely good compositions. I am looking for good technical display, or rather sound. As with Steel Empire, looks like I have some gaming to do. :)


Also, I am not as well versed in Snes music. Lets get some more technically impressive Snes stuff on here. I thought Plok has some impressive stuff. What Snes music has the most impressive bass? What Snes game has an amazing sounding electric guitar? Are there really good snare drums on the Snes and how do they compare to some of the top Genesis snares?

C'mon lets get this ball rolling!

[Wraith Storm]

Okay. Here is some more Genesis showmanship.

Vapor Trail (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG1c2U4ld2Y) - Almost as famous as the streets of Rage music and for a good reason. The drums sound like they were recorded in a studio from the snares to the symbols these are some of the best drums I have ever heard on the Genesis. Lets not forget that electric guitar. While it doesn't quite sound like the real thing, its pretty frakin incredible, and until yesterday it was the best I had ever heard on the Genesis or even Snes for that matter.

Ristar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GmSH_UDrRA&feature=BFa&list=PL4A6720D2E0A993E7&lf=results_main)- This totally blows me away. The Genesis has always excelled at drums, but usually its snares. This is very unique in the way it uses the snares and several layers of bass to produce a sound I have never heard on the Genesis. The phrase "The sum is greater than it's parts" comes to mind.

Time Trax (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqyEbu8cmMg) - Until yesterday I had never heard of this game or it's music. The Genesis sound chip never fails to impress me. Just when I thought I had heard the best electric guitar with Vapor Trail, a guy posts this at Sega-16 and now my mind is blown. This guitar sounds better and crisper than anything else I have heard on the Genesis and Snes. The entire song is simply a masterpiece.

[Berserker]

This sums it up pretty well, and also sums up why I strongly prefer the Genesis sound. With all due respect to Brian Eno, ambient puts me to sleep. It may be perfectly fitting during a game, but it's not the type of thing I would ever go out of my way to listen to.

The bulk of Eno's most well-known ambient work was made primarily with FM synthesis.

It's interesting that its use in the Genesis is being associated here with adjectives normally used to describe analog synthesis (meaty, organic, etc), whereas in the synth world it's typically viewed as the exact opposite - metallic and digital, having a very "80s" sound, most commonly used in genres like ambient and new wave.

I think both views are correct. It's a very deep and versatile type of synthesis, but notoriously difficult to program.

[j_factor]

The bulk of Eno's most well-known ambient work was made primarily with FM synthesis.

He used some FM synth, but I wouldn't particularly associate his work with it. He used a lot of tape loops, samples of random sounds, acoustic piano, analog synth, string instruments, etc. I don't think Ambient 1-4 contain any FM synth. 4 might.


It's interesting that its use in the Genesis is being associated here with adjectives normally used to describe analog synthesis (meaty, organic, etc), whereas in the synth world it's typically viewed as the exact opposite - metallic and digital, having a very "80s" sound, most commonly used in genres like ambient and new wave.

I agree with the metallic and digital part. FM synth was commonly used in industrial rock, techno, house, and freestyle (as well as new wave and synthpop). I wouldn't say organic, but I definitely associate it with music that has either a strong dance beat or a hard rock element.

[Berserker]

He used some FM synth, but I wouldn't particularly associate his work with it. He used a lot of tape loops, samples of random sounds, acoustic piano, analog synth, string instruments, etc. I don't think Ambient 1-4 contain any FM synth. 4 might.

Looks like you're right there. I guess I've always held a strong association between him and the Yamaha DX7 in particular.

[BetaWolf47]

I rather like the Genesis soundtrack of Truxton. Here's the first level music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHvg5Ert2wU

[Sabz5150]

Awesome game. I always loved Steel Empire and thought it was among the best shooters on the Genesis. Similar to Wings of Wor, Steel Empire breaks away from the usual sci-fi space opera shooters. Its steam punk setting is still unique almost 20 years later... but as much as I played the game I don't remember the music really standing out in any way.

First thing that comes to mind when I play SE is Jules Verne. Gotta respect a game that can conjure up such thoughts because few can.

The music itself is simply excellent. It shies away from the electronica and heavy metal and strays more into the "what-was-back-then-the-future" style music... big with a decent amount of brass and wind in the forefront.

If you want to see the electronica/metal music at its best... Thunder Force IV (Lightening Force). Want some headbanging to go with that? Crue Ball. :)

[Aussie2B]

The bulk of Eno's most well-known ambient work was made primarily with FM synthesis.

It's interesting that its use in the Genesis is being associated here with adjectives normally used to describe analog synthesis (meaty, organic, etc), whereas in the synth world it's typically viewed as the exact opposite - metallic and digital, having a very "80s" sound, most commonly used in genres like ambient and new wave.

I think both views are correct. It's a very deep and versatile type of synthesis, but notoriously difficult to program.

Diehard synth guys can also often be incredibly full of themselves, haha, and they'll arbitrarily come up with instruments/brands/etc. to turn their noses up to.

That fact that people would think that the SNES, in comparison, has a thinner, tinnier sound shows that the Genesis's FM synth is meatier and more organic, but I'm definitely not the one to come up with those adjectives. Many game composers have talked about FM synth in the same way, as well as plenty of other musicians.

I wonder if maybe it's a difference between Japanese and Western composers. The Japanese usually embrace the technology, but it seems like Western game composers from back then were a bunch of malcontents. When they talk about working back then, they just whine about how limited they were and such. It would make sense to me if the Japanese would speak of FM synth in more favorable terms, while Westerners would use adjectives that could be construed as negative. I guess Japanese composers are more likely to have wanted to be game composers, while a lot of Westerners just see it as something to do until they land a gig in film, for which they can use full orchestras or bands rather than work within computer technology.

[tom]

To me both make good music/sounds, but basically I prefer computer-made music/sound fx, eg Pokey.

[allyourblood]

Phantasy Star II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq5w6buRMU) has some wonderful tunes. This one in particular always gives me chills. I've always thought it sounded haunting and melancholy -- almost despondent. It's not really giving the FM chip much of a workout, but the "flam" effect on the drums coupled with that wonderful FM bell or vibe tone gets me every time. If I close my eyes, this track feels like it would fit in one of the Silent Hill games.

[Bloodreign]

I

I love Darius games but I never liked Sagaia. I dont think I have ever pushed myself past the second stages, so I never really had a chance to listen to much of the sound track. What was impressive about it? The instrument sets? The bass?

Remember, I am not looking for solely good compositions. I am looking for good technical display, or rather sound. As with Steel Empire, looks like I have some gaming to do. :)



Instrument sets are very nice sounding remarkably close to the arcade version, and lots of bass from the games explosions, you actually recognize that Zuntata did the soundtrack (IIRC Hisayoshi Ogura). The games music doesn't sound scratchy, save for the voice effects, it's quite a nice sounding game.

[Rob2600]

I am not the only person to feel that a lot of the Snes music sounds a bit muffled. It still sounds great, but its as if there is a thin pillow over the speaker....no matter what kind of music the Snes is playing it always has a soft warm feeling to it.

There are two reasons for this:

Many SNES composers used low-pass filters to mask high-frequency compression artifacts in lower bit-rate samples. That's one reason a lot of SNES music doesn't sound bright and sparkly (the highest frequencies are rolled-off on purpose).

Another reason is because the SNES audio is output at 32 kHz, not 44.1 kHz. 32 kHz provides very good audio resolution, but not quite enough to produce very crisp, detailed high frequencies.


If you want to see what the SNES is capable of in terms of audio, two games that immediately come to mind are Super Castlevania IV and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV: Turtles in Time, both by Konami.

[j_factor]

I think this is one of the best tunes to ever come out of the SNES: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsYD6TrNl-0 ...Still sounds a bit muffled, though.

[Rob2600]

I think this is one of the best tunes to ever come out of the SNES: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsYD6TrNl-0 ...Still sounds a bit muffled, though.

Keep in mind, that video is using YouTube's "240p" setting, which usually results in lower quality audio.

[savageone]

It would be interesting to compare the same songs on both systems and see which chip did the better job.

Alleycat Blues (TMNT Hyperstone Heist and Turtles in Time)
Genesis version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJd6aEkwvg)
SNES version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_s_wtIGXdU)
Arcade version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPqOJBVSweQ)

Guile theme (Street Fighter 2)
Genesis version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH48qcjiy1I)
SNES version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8gIvHhloNg)
Arcade version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot7AW_z5Tes)

[j_factor]

Keep in mind, that video is using YouTube's "240p" setting, which usually results in lower quality audio.

I was referring to how it sounds coming out of my SNES, not the video itself.

[Doonzmore]

Here's a good audio comparison for Sunset Riders on the Genesis and Snes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLOPRdxgqAI

As much as I love the Genesis I have to side with the Snes version on this one. It just gets me pumped up for playing the game.

[SpaceHarrier]

I'm not quite sure what it is about this track, whether it's the crisp percussion or clean synth samples, but I'm amazed a Sega Genesis produced this music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59TfMJfS5XY

..and speaking of the Turrican series, here is a similar song for comparison

SNES: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6gW975XDwA&feature=related
Genesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdY4EKAcW4Q&feature=related

[Platinum]

I always thought that the Genesis sounded like garbage until I really started digging into its library. There are some sound samples on Genesis that sound very impressive given its primitive nature. However, I also know that it is notorious for emulating scratchy voice samples. Take MKII, on Genesis the voice samples make it hard for me to bare, but on 32X- they are crystal clear.

Amazing huh?

SNES on the other hand has done an excellent job in the past of scaring me helpless when I was a tot. Super Metroid for example always sent chills down my spine. The SNES soundchip was truly a technological marvel.

[Wraith Storm]

It would be interesting to compare the same songs on both systems and see which chip did the better job.

Alleycat Blues (TMNT Hyperstone Heist and Turtles in Time)
Genesis version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJd6aEkwvg)
SNES version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_s_wtIGXdU)
Arcade version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPqOJBVSweQ)

Guile theme (Street Fighter 2)
Genesis version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH48qcjiy1I)
SNES version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8gIvHhloNg)
Arcade version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot7AW_z5Tes)


Here's a good audio comparison for Sunset Riders on the Genesis and Snes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLOPRdxgqAI

To quote my OP:

I have also seen plenty of threads comparing songs from the same games on each system, but I rarely find that to be a convincing argument. Usually one of the systems was the primary development system and then the game just gets ported to the other. I don't think any company was a master of both Genesis and Snes and put an equal amount of effort into developing the same games for each systems strengths.

In addition to the above, it doesn't help that usually different composers work on the different ports. One composer might be a "mad genius" at the system he is working on while the composer for the other system is just terrible.

A perfect example of this would be one posted on Sega-16:

Rock n' Roll Racing (Snes) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2947SGpG14&feature=player_embedded) - Video game music god Tim Follin programmed this sound track and it is really incredible. He could get THE BEST out of ANY sound chip he worked on.

Rock n' Roll Racing (Genesis) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dRhPmCzr2g&feature=player_embedded) - There is simply no competition. The SNES version blows the Genesis far and away... but the Genesis version had a different composer. It WAS NOT Tim Follin.

So now we ask ourselves, what if Tim Follin had done the soundtrack for the Genesis version as well? How much better would it be? Unfortunately he only composed one song for the Genesis. Time Trax.

Time Trax (Genesis) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqyEbu8cmMg) - I posted this earlier. An amazing song by Tim Follin. One of the most incredible songs on the Genesis. I think its safe to say, had he done both soundtracks the Genesis version would have been MUCH better.

This is why I don't want song comparisons. They are certainly fun, but not relevant in this thread.



I'm not quite sure what it is about this track, whether it's the crisp percussion or clean synth samples, but I'm amazed a Sega Genesis produced this music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59TfMJfS5XY


DAMN! The thumping bass line, the crisp drums and symbol crashes. The reverb induced synth. This is a well rounded song. Not only is the composition great, but every individual instrument sounds like top tier stuff. I am impressed as well.

[Doonzmore]

This is why I don't want song comparisons. They are certainly fun, but not relevant in this thread.

On the contrary I posted the Sunset Riders comparison because of this:




I feel the Genesis really excels at Techno, Dance and Metal music.

The Super Nes seems to perform just about all types of music very well, but it really shines with ambient and orchestral music, something that the Genesis just can't compete with.

I remember hearing Sadeness for the first time on the radio 2 years ago thinking "No way it couldn't be". I thought I was losing my mind. It had to be a coincidence, but the proof is in the pudding. What year did Sadeness come out anyway?

Another good composer who handled both machines pretty well was Tommy Tallarico.

Cool Spot for the Genesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jLiXUOUv7E

Cool Spot for the Snes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbpDwaTnGGI

[tomaitheous]

Wraith Storm: Ehh? How many forums did you duplicate this post to besides here and Sega-16?

[kedawa]

I think they're different enough that you can't objectively call one better than the other.
The Amiga is the same way, it can do amazing sounding music that puts both consoles to shame, but doesn't have enough channels to have both music and sound effects in a lot of games.

[Drixxel]

That tune from Time Trax really is something special, Tim & Geoff Follin rule. To keep this rolling, here's another Follin effort which really showcases the SNES, the Gambit theme from Spider-Man/X-Men: Arcade's Revenge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCacUFrVb5c. The whole soundtrack has some of the clearest instrument samples I've heard on SNES, amongst them a convincing electric guitar, a crisp snare, and weighty, dynamic bass.

As for the Genesis side, one of the more impressive soundtracks as far as broadening the console's sonic horizons belongs to Master of Monsters. Some of the tracks from that game do a fantastic job of a warm, full and even orchestral feel. For instance, take this melancholy number you can choose as one of the game themes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFSF6RhFJak

[Rob2600]

Cool Spot for the Genesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jLiXUOUv7E

Cool Spot for the Snes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbpDwaTnGGI

Unrelated to the topic, but wow, the graphics in the SNES intro completely blow away the Genesis one.

[ccovell]

As for the Genesis side, one of the more impressive soundtracks as far as broadening the console's sonic horizons belongs to Master of Monsters.

Yep, that's Hitoshi Sakimoto. Try to hunt down all his tracks on the Genesis/MD; they're the best on the system. (2nd and 3rd best would be Yuzo Koshiro and Tim Follin, IMO.)

[Doonzmore]

Matt Furness competes with Tommy Tallarico for the best beach music ever:

Puggsy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifMmrfbVlYU

Cool Spot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khpVI4qz9ZQ

Another pretty song from Puggsy also composed by Furness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19s5VzDKMKk

And here's another song filled with ambience from the late Snes game Cold Shadow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojeb8d0NQbc

[nebrazca78]

A perfect example of this would be one posted on Sega-16:

Rock n' Roll Racing (Snes) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2947SGpG14&feature=player_embedded) - Video game music god Tim Follin programmed this sound track and it is really incredible. He could get THE BEST out of ANY sound chip he worked on.

Rock n' Roll Racing (Genesis) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dRhPmCzr2g&feature=player_embedded) - There is simply no competition. The SNES version blows the Genesis far and away... but the Genesis version had a different composer. It WAS NOT Tim Follin.

I don't agree that there is simply no competition on this track. In fact, I like the Genesis version much better, and here's why:

The SNES version is better in that the instruments sound much closer to real instruments. In that respect there is no competition. The drums, bass and guitar are all very convincing. Follin obviously tried to make this song sound as much like the original as possible, however I think this is the downfall. The end result is a song that is accurate but sounds like it's being performed by a weak cover band with no singer. Black Sabbath rocks, however this version does not. When I listen to it, it just makes me want to pull the CD out and listen to the real thing. Additionally it sounds highly muffled in comparison to the Genesis track which is very crisp and clear.

The Genesis version sounds like video game music which is what I like about it. It's a totally different version with a different sound from the original version, kind of like a remix. It stands on its own as not being nearly as similar to the original in respect to the sound of its instruments. None of the instruments sound like real instruments at all which gives it much more appeal to me in comparison. With the SNES version, if you could turn the music off and leave the sound effects on you'd be better off listening to the original album while playing. And again, just the fact that the Genny version is so much clearer and cleaner helps it rock. Not to mention the effect that they use on the Genesis version in the first 10 seconds totally blows away the SNES version's counterpart (although as previously stated not sounding like a real instrument.)

.

[Wraith Storm]

First thing that comes to mind when I play SE is Jules Verne. Gotta respect a game that can conjure up such thoughts because few can.

The music itself is simply excellent. It shies away from the electronica and heavy metal and strays more into the "what-was-back-then-the-future" style music... big with a decent amount of brass and wind in the forefront.


While there are still a decent amount of thumping bass and drum tracks, I will agree that this soundtrack is of a different breed. The synth trumpets are really cool and add a lot to the epic feel, but while unique, I don't think they push the sound chip that much.

There are actually some really good moody/ ambient tracks, which I was not expecting, especially for a shooter. The wind instruments in some of these tracks are exceptionally good.


Phantasy Star II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq5w6buRMU) has some wonderful tunes. This one in particular always gives me chills. I've always thought it sounded haunting and melancholy -- almost despondent. It's not really giving the FM chip much of a workout, but the "flam" effect on the drums coupled with that wonderful FM bell or vibe tone gets me every time. If I close my eyes, this track feels like it would fit in one of the Silent Hill games.

Its been 13 years or so since I played Phantasy Star II. I forgot about this song. Its a great tune and certainly conveys the Game Over/ You died and all hope is lost feeling.


Instrument sets are very nice sounding remarkably close to the arcade version, and lots of bass from the games explosions, you actually recognize that Zuntata did the soundtrack (IIRC Hisayoshi Ogura). The games music doesn't sound scratchy, save for the voice effects, it's quite a nice sounding game.

Unfortunately there is no sound test for this game so I need to find and download the ost or not suck at the game. LOL! I actually got a bit further than I used to get and your not kidding. There is some VERY good stuff here, I just need to get a bit more familiar with it.


If you want to see what the SNES is capable of in terms of audio, two games that immediately come to mind are Super Castlevania IV and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV: Turtles in Time, both by Konami.

I see both of these mentioned quite often. I'll certainly check them out as this thread is still lacking a bit in the SNES department.


On the contrary I posted the Sunset Riders comparison because of this:

I remember hearing Sadeness for the first time on the radio 2 years ago thinking "No way it couldn't be". I thought I was losing my mind. It had to be a coincidence, but the proof is in the pudding. What year did Sadeness come out anyway?

Another good composer who handled both machines pretty well was Tommy Tallarico.

Cool Spot for the Genesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jLiXUOUv7E

Cool Spot for the Snes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbpDwaTnGGI

The Sunset riders comparison is actually pretty good. I really like and dislike both of them. I like the beginning to the Genesis version FAR better than the Snes version. But I find myself liking the main portion of the song a bit more on the Snes. But what is with the out of place orchestral hits? Those are terrible.


Wraith Storm: Ehh? How many forums did you duplicate this post to besides here and Sega-16?

I only posted here and Sega-16. I was also going to post at Atari Age and the Retro Gamer forums as well, but these two forums are keeping me busy enough. I couldn't imagine adding another two.

Maybe after the thread here and at Sega-16 die down then I will take some of the collected information and post at the other two places.


That tune from Time Trax really is something special, Tim & Geoff Follin rule. To keep this rolling, here's another Follin effort which really showcases the SNES, the Gambit theme from Spider-Man/X-Men: Arcade's Revenge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCacUFrVb5c. The whole soundtrack has some of the clearest instrument samples I've heard on SNES, amongst them a convincing electric guitar, a crisp snare, and weighty, dynamic bass.

As for the Genesis side, one of the more impressive soundtracks as far as broadening the console's sonic horizons belongs to Master of Monsters. Some of the tracks from that game do a fantastic job of a warm, full and even orchestral feel. For instance, take this melancholy number you can choose as one of the game themes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFSF6RhFJak

That Gambit track is insanely well done, but I expect nothing less from Mr. Follin! :) That's wild, it's like... techno funk metal!?!? It seems like the most impressive Snes stuff I have heard has been from him. Although that Super Adventure Island iv stuff from Yuzo Koshiro was really good as well. I need to listen to a bit more from both of these games.

I have never heard that Master of Monsters track before. It's really good. Beautiful and desolate are the emotions that come to mind. I really like the bells. They seem to have a bit more reverb than the usual Genesis stuff. Great stuff, man!


Yep, that's Hitoshi Sakimoto. Try to hunt down all his tracks on the Genesis/MD; they're the best on the system. (2nd and 3rd best would be Yuzo Koshiro and Tim Follin, IMO.)

That explains it. I had no idea Hitoshi Sakimoto did the soundtrack for MoM. Everything he does on the Genesis is awesome.


Matt Furness competes with Tommy Tallarico for the best beach music ever:

Puggsy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifMmrfbVlYU

Cool Spot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khpVI4qz9ZQ

Another pretty song from Puggsy also composed by Furness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19s5VzDKMKk

And here's another song filled with ambience from the late Snes game Cold Shadow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojeb8d0NQbc

I always hear Matt Furniss championed among Genesis crowds. Has he done much Snes stuff? I would be interested to hear it if he had. He got some great sounds out of the Genesis.


I don't agree that there is simply no competition on this track. In fact, I like the Genesis version much better, and here's why:

The SNES version is better in that the instruments sound much closer to real instruments. In that respect there is no competition. The drums, bass and guitar are all very convincing. Follin obviously tried to make this song sound as much like the original as possible, however I think this is the downfall. The end result is a song that is accurate but sounds like it's being performed by a weak cover band with no singer. Black Sabbath rocks, however this version does not. When I listen to it, it just makes me want to pull the CD out and listen to the real thing. Additionally it sounds highly muffled in comparison to the Genesis track which is very crisp and clear.

The Genesis version sounds like video game music which is what I like about it. It's a totally different version with a different sound from the original version, kind of like a remix. It stands on its own as not being nearly as similar to the original in respect to the sound of its instruments. None of the instruments sound like real instruments at all which gives it much more appeal to me in comparison. With the SNES version, if you could turn the music off and leave the sound effects on you'd be better off listening to the original album while playing. And again, just the fact that the Genny version is so much clearer and cleaner helps it rock. Not to mention the effect that they use on the Genesis version in the first 10 seconds totally blows away the SNES version's counterpart (although as previously stated not sounding like a real instrument.)

.

I agree with everything you said above about the Snes. Although I think it's pretty clear compared to most Snes stuff.

I love the Genesis sound chip, but I think they made some poor choices for the instruments. The Genesis version I find to be ear piercing. The old argument of the Genesis sounding tinny... I find very appropriate here. It just doesn't sound as full bodied or as well rounded to me. Even though the drums and thudding base sound really good, the entire song is just to high pitched for me.

I understand what you mean about it sounding like video game music though, I just wish they went with a less grating guitar sound.

[Zing]

Wow, that Genesis Paranoid is horrid. And I don't mean horrid in the "it doesn't sound like the real instruments" way. It sounds terrible even for "video game music". It's turn-your-sound-off bad.

[Rob2600]

If you want to see what the SNES is capable of in terms of audio, two games that immediately come to mind are Super Castlevania IV and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV: Turtles in Time, both by Konami.

I see both of these mentioned quite often. I'll certainly check them out as this thread is still lacking a bit in the SNES department.

Also for the SNES, check out F-Zero, Batman Returns, and Donkey Kong Country.

[nemerodius]

Actraiser, Super Metroid, Contra Spirits, Axelay..the Super Famicom is home to, in my humble opinion, to some of the best soundtracks in exsistance.

[ccovell]

That explains it. I had no idea Hitoshi Sakimoto did the soundtrack for MoM. Everything he does on the Genesis is awesome.

But how could you not have recognized Sakimoto's work just by listening to it? :)

He'd used the same FM driver since his Japanese PC days, so a Gen/MD game that uses the same driver (Gauntlet IV, Bad Omen) has that recognizable full-bodied sound to it.

[Doonzmore]

Can't believe no one has mentioned David Wise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlFYSIyAGmA

[Doonzmore]

According to his wikipedia page Furniss was the composer for Street Racer and Kid Kleetz on the Snes.

Street Racer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pQMJEzNwtM

Kid Kleetz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHJBMPfO5XE&feature=related

[Wraith Storm]

Can't believe no one has mentioned David Wise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlFYSIyAGmA

You know... As I listened to this song the first few times, I didn't even focus on the music portion. It was the bubbling lava sound that drew my attention.

It got me thinking about THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06LGnRvN6E8&feature=related)desolate Final Fantasy VI track.

I have heard several SNES games that have environmental/ ambient sounds in the songs. Has anything like this been done on the Genesis? Could the Genesis even do something like this?

[Aussie2B]

Can't believe no one has mentioned David Wise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlFYSIyAGmA

You deserve a cookie for linking to a DKC2 track other than Stickerbrush Symphony (or DKC1's Aquatic Ambiance). I like Stickerbrush Symphony (along with every other track in the game), but Jesus Christ is it hyped up and ALWAYS the song that people talk about from that soundtrack.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Invoking Psykosonik, because it has relevance, and I can. I so wish there were Genny FM-PSG versions for comparison. Maybe one day...

CD track
SNES track

Welcome to My Mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWLCDsVm3sg
SNES facsimile [barely]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDH5og73Te4

Acid Hammer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Eibud_GKA
SNES version [not horrible]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HueLQb-6-Xc

My personal favorite Psykosonik CD track:
Techno Jihad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPSaEm6w0rw
SNES: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzS7BXgX_b0

I like what they did on the SNES sound system, but I often wonder if they could have been immortal on the Genny, rather than the divisive result the SNES yielded. Game music is very love/hate between these platforms though.

[VG_Maniac]

Actraiser, Super Metroid, Contra Spirits, Axelay..the Super Famicom is home to, in my humble opinion, to some of the best soundtracks in exsistance.

Absolutely. I strongly disagree with anyone who says the Genesis has overall better soundtracks than the SNES. SNES games like Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Super Castlevania IV, the Mega Man X series, Final Fantasy II & III, etc...have some of the best soundtracks of all time in my opinion.

[kedawa]

And there's at least as many Genesis games with awesome soundtracks.
It's a silly point to debate on either side.

[j_factor]

It is quite silly because it all comes down to taste. Personally, I own every single one of the SNES games mentioned in those two posts (except I only have the first Mega Man X) and have played through all of them, and I can hardly even remember some of their soundtracks.

[Drixxel]

What's refreshing about this discussion is that we're more talking about the (objective) technical possibilities of the hardware, at least as evidenced by what the best soundtracks on either platform have to offer.


I have heard several SNES games that have environmental/ ambient sounds in the songs. Has anything like this been done on the Genesis? Could the Genesis even do something like this?

One that comes to mind on Genesis is Soldiers of Fortune/The Chaos Engine, I haven't played through this version but there is periodic ambient bird chirping in the first world. You can hear it in this video of a playthrough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVw8gWhNQis&feature=related#t=3m30s

[aryoshi]

The SNES is something I like to hook my surround sound up to because it's got such ambient, amazing music like Super Metroid, Final Fantasy VI, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore and all sorts of other games. The Genesis is the sort of thing I like when I feel like listening to upbeat dance/trance/techno-style music or rock/metal. Road Rash for example, I could listen to the music from the trilogy all day, it's just.. Awesome. It's stuff I bob my head to while bashing the fuck out of people with a crowbar taking first place. Then you have the Sonic games, fitting music to going mach speed with I feel, it seems like each level fits not only the mood and environment of that zone, but also the speed you go at it.

Let's take Spring Yard Zone for example, it's bouncy, upbeat, jazzy and something you'd expect to hear when you're bouncing all over the place and using springs to lunge you up into the air. And then you have Mushroom Hill Zone's music, just the kind of song I'd like to hear when I'm jumping atop mushrooms and gliding through the sky avoiding giant killer.. Dragonflies.

Both consoles have equally good quality, it's really about how the music's composed and who's composing it. Genesis is full of action and/or fast-paced games, the SNES is full of in-depth adventure games which ambient, orchestral music is a must. In the end I really don't think one tops the other. If I had to pick one, I would say the SNES but that's partially because I'm a huge lover of the SNES and especially soundtracks for the remake of Dragon Quest III, Final Fantasy VI and a few other RPGs, but I also like the rock and techno styles that the Genesis has to offer.

[Eternal Champion]

So the SNES audio chipset samples, whereas the Genesis actually modulates? Cool, never knew that.
I've always prefered that synth sound on Genesis; it's partly because I just love a lot of Genesis games' music compared to SNES. Thunderforce II and III, Streets of Rage 2 and 3, Phantasy Star II and especially the title theme to Phantasy Star IV. Thread over.

[Drixxel]

So the SNES audio chipset samples, whereas the Genesis actually modulates? Cool, never knew that.
I've always prefered that synth sound on Genesis; it's partly because I just love a lot of Genesis games' music compared to SNES. Thunderforce II and III, Streets of Rage 2 and 3, Phantasy Star II and especially the title theme to Phantasy Star IV. Thread over.

SoR 2 & 3 are, I'd say, the most technically accomplished of those you mentioned. Now, the real question is whether or not you feel that the music of those games pushes, or at least illustrates, the boundaries of the sounds possible with the Genesis. I'd say they play to the strengths of the Genesis very well and represent a style that, arguably, could never be explored in the same way on the SNES due to differences in hardware (as has been discussed quite thoroughly earlier in the thread). I'd argue that the Gambit theme of SNES Spider-Man/X-Men: Arcade's Revenge does a pretty slick job of it but still doesn't match the razor clarity of SoR.

I'd love to hear some more examples of Genesis music that shoots for more of an ambient or orchestral sound. Taking ccovell's advice, I listened through more of Hitoshi Sakimoto's Genesis stuff and the soundtrack from Gauntlet IV does a keenly atmospheric thing. This track impressed me in particular: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUPWzjnn1RM

[jwmollman]

Here's a good audio comparison for Sunset Riders on the Genesis and Snes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLOPRdxgqAI

As much as I love the Genesis I have to side with the Snes version on this one. It just gets me pumped up for playing the game.

I've never played that game before, but listening to that track makes me want to play it (or at least check it out). I get pumped up from it too. For this song, I'd say I like the Genesis version better. I guess it's that "synth sound" of the Genesis's sound chip. But don't get me wrong, the SNES music capabilities fit really well with certain games. An example being Bramble Blast (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73n7HTcmb5g) on Donkey Kong Country 2.

Oh, and thanks for sharing!

[PresidentLeever]

I'd love to hear some more examples of Genesis music that shoots for more of an ambient or orchestral sound. Taking ccovell's advice, I listened through more of Hitoshi Sakimoto's Genesis stuff and the soundtrack from Gauntlet IV does a keenly atmospheric thing. This track impressed me in particular: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUPWzjnn1RM

Definitely check out Snatcher. Even though it's a MCD game most of the songs are YM2612, just with somewhat better percussion samples.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fbX01saLqc

[jwmollman]

Definitely check out Snatcher. Even though it's a MCD game most of the songs are YM2612, just with somewhat better percussion samples.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fbX01saLqc

Thanks for this link. I've known about Snatcher but I haven't ever given it a try, nor have I ever listened to music from the game.

[ccovell]

Is there a sound test for SegaCD Snatcher? If not... how did that guy record all the songs for YouTube?

[Drixxel]

Is there a sound test for SegaCD Snatcher? If not... how did that guy record all the songs for YouTube?

According to the uploader:

"... recording the songs one by one while playing through the game already took quite some time."

I suppose it was a matter of doing a Snatcher playthrough and recording the music from the appropriate sections of the game where it naturally played.

[Aussie2B]

I'm pretty sure there are multiple Snatcher soundtracks too, so you could probably forgo using the game to get the music anyway.

[NayusDante]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but one of the biggest differences I've noticed in these "showcase tracks" is that the SNES sound is more like recorded music, while the Genesis sound is more like, well, video game music. It's hard to describe, but even when there's something really well done on Genesis, it's not something I'd expect to hear a band put out on a professionally mixed CD. The SNES tracks come a little closer to that benchmark, for me at least.

Everyone seems to speak of the muffled sample quality ceiling of the SNES as if it's a bad thing, but I'd argue that for the "better" tracks, it's the very thing that makes it great. There's a more pleasant, "listenable" quality to SNES music as a result of the more even sound across the channels, where the Genesis synth seems to clash with the (usually better) bass. As much as I love 80s synthpop and that synthesizer sound, the Genesis synth is too harsh and unfiltered for my ears. I love the "strong synth" sounds of the NES and C64, but nothing about the Genesis sound has ever really caught my interest.

[j_factor]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but one of the biggest differences I've noticed in these "showcase tracks" is that the SNES sound is more like recorded music, while the Genesis sound is more like, well, video game music. It's hard to describe, but even when there's something really well done on Genesis, it's not something I'd expect to hear a band put out on a professionally mixed CD. The SNES tracks come a little closer to that benchmark, for me at least.

I'm not trying be be snarky -- honest -- but I have no idea what you're talking about. SNES music sounds like what kind of recorded music? I've never heard anything on SNES that sounds convincingly like something played by a "band" (i.e. a rock band). The orchestral stuff never sounds like a real orchestra, either.

I think Genesis can definitely sound like recorded music. It seems to do genres like house, techno, and trance reasonably well. Not as well as the top producers of the 90s using the most state-of-the-art technology at the time, but still. Compare this Streets of Rage song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQE28QcYMSo&fmt=16) to the song it rips off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzbUPISS6gw), which was a top 40 hit. They don't sound the same (partly because it wasn't intended to be a carbon copy), but I think the Genesis track holds up pretty well.

[NayusDante]

In the Genesis version of that track, the bass is really great, but the synth isn't nearly as deep and detailed. It's got that harsh metallic sound. You're probably hearing it differently from how I'm hearing it, because we're looking for different musical qualities.

I wouldn't say that the SNES music is CD-quality, but I said that it comes closer to sounding like that "produced, mixed" sound, particularly in the case of a lot of the Donkey Kong Country tracks.

Check out this one - Spark Mandrill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYdSLaVu9p4) - In the treble range, the guitar sounds better (to me) than most Genesis "guitar" sounds, and has more depth and complexity, especially when multiple notes are played at once. The bass range, while not nearly as deep as anything on the Genesis, has that muffled sound typical of a sample, but close your eyes and listen to the drums. It sounds more like a live recording, albeit not the highest quality. This might be a case of "three blind men and an elephant;" those are the things that stand out to my ears, and I'm sure everyone else notices something different.

[ccovell]

Capcom is not exactly the best example for SNES music, as they tend to use stinky old sample sets for their otherwise excellently-composed music. That was in fact the first thing I noticed in MegaMan X when I first played it all those years ago (Xmas '94?)

[PresidentLeever]

Check out this one - Spark Mandrill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYdSLaVu9p4) - In the treble range, the guitar sounds better (to me) than most Genesis "guitar" sounds, and has more depth and complexity, especially when multiple notes are played at once.

MMX guitars sound pretty static and low quality, not much like real guitars and the reverb is quite poor making the track sound like its being played in a small underpass or something.

Compare it to something like Rock 'n Roll Racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-T1liu5ag0&feature=related
Tim Follins Spider-Man soundtrack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnWvTFoLGeQ
or Unirally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY8NTdhmYMc

..and it's not very impressive at all. But I'm not arguing that SNES guitar is usually more convincing than on MD.

[j_factor]

In the Genesis version of that track, the bass is really great, but the synth isn't nearly as deep and detailed. It's got that harsh metallic sound. You're probably hearing it differently from how I'm hearing it, because we're looking for different musical qualities.

I'm not arguing that it's identical in quality. But, I've heard plenty of "real" music, produced and mixed professionally, that had a harsh metallic sound.


Check out this one - Spark Mandrill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYdSLaVu9p4) - In the treble range, the guitar sounds better (to me) than most Genesis "guitar" sounds, and has more depth and complexity, especially when multiple notes are played at once. The bass range, while not nearly as deep as anything on the Genesis, has that muffled sound typical of a sample, but close your eyes and listen to the drums. It sounds more like a live recording, albeit not the highest quality. This might be a case of "three blind men and an elephant;" those are the things that stand out to my ears, and I'm sure everyone else notices something different.

I honestly wouldn't have had any idea that track was supposed to have "guitar" sounds in it, if you hadn't said so. That doesn't sound like a guitar at all. The percussion does sound very good, which I find unusual for SNES music (usually the percussion sounds weak).


Compare it to something like Rock 'n Roll Racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-T1liu5ag0&feature=related
Tim Follins Spider-Man soundtrack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnWvTFoLGeQ
or Unirally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY8NTdhmYMc

Those are better, especially the Unirally one.

For guitar on Genesis, here are some examples used in an old thread:

Road Rash II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwODPjCR6iI&fmt=18)
Vapor Trail (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSssZMGDozU&fmt=18)
Panic on Funkotron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW7w0AUtiWE&fmt=18) (bass guitar)

But honestly, I would say neither system was very good at emulating a guitar. At least not consistently or frequently.

[Rob2600]

Check out this one - Spark Mandrill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYdSLaVu9p4) - In the treble range, the guitar sounds better (to me) than most Genesis "guitar" sounds, and has more depth and complexity, especially when multiple notes are played at once. The bass range, while not nearly as deep as anything on the Genesis, has that muffled sound typical of a sample, but close your eyes and listen to the drums. It sounds more like a live recording, albeit not the highest quality.

To me, some of the best examples of drums, percussion, and bass on the SNES are Super Castlevania IV, Donkey Kong Country, and The Legend of the Mystical Ninja:

Super Castlevania IV - Beginning (http://youtu.be/b3lmGlVcQ6c)
Super Castlevania IV - Bloody Tears (http://youtu.be/z3uB8aXEbu0)
Super Castlevania IV - Vampire Killer (http://youtu.be/u7OZ1nZsN10) (edit: added later)
Super Castlevania IV - Theme of Simon (http://youtu.be/JQIQ0PiXWGs) (edit: added later)

Donkey Kong Country - Jungle Groove (http://youtu.be/uPTm-8YqJfw)
Donkey Kong Country 3 - Rockface Rumble (http://youtu.be/VApfPda9hX8) (edit: added later)
Donkey Kong Country 2 - Lockjaw's Saga/Ship Hold Theme (http://youtu.be/P-3pL9A7Nk4) (edit: added later)

Legend of the Mystical Ninja - Yamato (http://youtu.be/uXV6esOacdc)
Legend of the Mystical Ninja - Helpful Home (http://youtu.be/DTm-EG-X00Y)

[timewarpgamer]

This is a big debate, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Comix Zone yet. It has such an incredible combo of guitar, percussion, and electronic sounds.

Here's stage 1 for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOvGTULHw2Y

Personally, I love SNES scores as well, but I'm not as familiar with them, since I didn't grow up with that console. Were I to wage a musical battle against the SNES, though, you'd better believe that Comix Zone would be in my ammo magazine.

[Wraith Storm]

Invoking Psykosonik, because it has relevance, and I can. I so wish there were Genny FM-PSG versions for comparison. Maybe one day...

CD track
SNES track

Welcome to My Mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWLCDsVm3sg
SNES facsimile [barely]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDH5og73Te4

Acid Hammer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Eibud_GKA
SNES version [not horrible]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HueLQb-6-Xc

My personal favorite Psykosonik CD track:
Techno Jihad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPSaEm6w0rw
SNES: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzS7BXgX_b0

I like what they did on the SNES sound system, but I often wonder if they could have been immortal on the Genny, rather than the divisive result the SNES yielded. Game music is very love/hate between these platforms though.

That's AWESOME! I had no idea that their music was in that SNES game. Although, it is kind of odd. The Genesis is much more suitable for their genre of music. I would have loved to have heard what it would have sounded like.

As far as the Snes is concerned, the songs sound well done and don't sound too muffled. There are some decent sounds here and there, although the Plok soundtrack prooves the Snes is much more capable at techno stuff than whats in X-Kaliber.


What's refreshing about this discussion is that we're more talking about the (objective) technical possibilities of the hardware, at least as evidenced by what the best soundtracks on either platform have to offer.

Yep! That's the entire reason I started this thread. I LOVE to break things down and analyze their separate components. EVERY system has at least some games that have some great compositions, but how do the individual instruments in those compositions sound? How do they stack up against other music on the same system and, because comparisons are fun, how do they stack up against the competition?


One that comes to mind on Genesis is Soldiers of Fortune/The Chaos Engine, I haven't played through this version but there is periodic ambient bird chirping in the first world. You can hear it in this video of a playthrough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVw8gWhNQis&feature=related#t=3m30s

Awesome! I watched a Snes video as well and the birds are much harder to hear on that version but they are there. They seemed to start and stop around the same places, so i'm not sure if they were actually part of the song or if they were sound effects. Either way they were some cool environmental sfx! Good find!


To me, some of the best examples of drums, percussion, and bass on the SNES are Super Castlevania IV, Donkey Kong Country, and The Legend of the Mystical Ninja:

Super Castlevania IV - Beginning (http://youtu.be/bFbi2X3XSx0)
Super Castlevania IV - Bloody Tears (http://youtu.be/STHvkhrQnyI)

Donkey Kong Country - Jungle Groove (http://youtu.be/uPTm-8YqJfw)

Beginning is pretty impressive. The drums and base sound really good, but i'm not sure what happened with the bass in Bloody Tears. It's very quiet and not just muffled, but smothered.

Donkey Kong Country on the other hand... DAMN! EVERYTHING I have heard has been amazing. The sound is very clear and the soundtrack employs a huge variety of instruments. This really seems to push the Snes sound chip.


This is a big debate, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Comix Zone yet. It has such an incredible combo of guitar, percussion, and electronic sounds.

Here's stage 1 for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOvGTULHw2Y

Personally, I love SNES scores as well, but I'm not as familiar with them, since I didn't grow up with that console. Were I to wage a musical battle against the SNES, though, you'd better believe that Comix Zone would be in my ammo magazine.

Comix Zone has a phenomenal soundtrack, but there is a reason it hasn't really been mentioned. It uses GEMS, although it's arguably one of the best soundtracks to be composed with GEMS. It can certainly compete, but it can't beat a good custom sound driver.

A custom sound driver is a necessity for getting the best out of the YM synth. It's certainly not required for a timeless composition, as Comix Zone shows us, but is required to get the best sounds used in the composition.

[Rob2600]

To me, some of the best examples of drums, percussion, and bass on the SNES are Super Castlevania IV, Donkey Kong Country, and The Legend of the Mystical Ninja:

Super Castlevania IV - Beginning (http://youtu.be/b3lmGlVcQ6c)
Super Castlevania IV - Bloody Tears (http://youtu.be/z3uB8aXEbu0)

Beginning is pretty impressive. The drums and base sound really good, but i'm not sure what happened with the bass in Bloody Tears. It's very quiet and not just muffled, but smothered.

A lot of the songs in Super Castlevania IV use an acoustic upright bass sound like in an orchestra, instead of an electric bass sound. "Bloody Tears" is one of the songs that features an upright bass. I think it sounds fantastic, but maybe you're looking for a more rock sound vs. a more jazzy orchestral sound.

The music from F-Zero is also worth checking out on the SNES (excellent drums, bass, and synth sounds, plus nice stereo separation):

F-Zero - Big Blue (http://youtu.be/FLojfoC-dXg)
F-Zero - Mute City (http://youtu.be/-4RQTcLbFds)
F-Zero - Port Town (http://youtu.be/sxiIyDy_6nE) (recommended by nemerodius below)

[nemerodius]

Add in port town as well :) Being playing through Actraiser for the SFC..just to enjoy the soundtrack..still sounds amazing, 20 years on.

[Rob2600]

If you want good rock drums, bass, and synths on the SNES, also check out TMNT Tournament Fighters:

TMNT Tournament Fighters - Cafeteria/Raph's Theme (http://youtu.be/63veUcUNdt4)
TMNT Tournament Fighters - Metal Works/Shredder's Theme (http://youtu.be/R1ESFXxqcNY)
TMNT Tournament Fighters - Scrapyard/Don's Theme (http://youtu.be/Al5OfHTAFKI)


Also, one of the very best examples of rock music (and music, period) on the SNES. You won't believe your ears (the rock part kicks in at 52 seconds):

Earthbound - Battle of Final Destiny (Giygas) / Pokey Means Business (http://youtu.be/grQkblTqSMs)


And two more from Super Castlevania IV:

Super Castlevania IV - Vampire Killer (http://youtu.be/u7OZ1nZsN10)
Super Castlevania IV - Theme of Simon (http://youtu.be/JQIQ0PiXWGs)


One of my favorite orchestral SNES songs, featuring lots of percussion (snare drum, crash cymbals, timpani, marimbas, etc.):

Batman Returns - Circus Train (http://youtu.be/CwYV-LwKfLM)


Here are interesting ones (percussion-heavy):

Donkey Kong Country 3 - Rockface Rumble (http://youtu.be/VApfPda9hX8)
Donkey Kong Country 2 - Lockjaw's Saga/Ship Hold Theme (http://youtu.be/P-3pL9A7Nk4)

[PresidentLeever]

F-Zero sounds like something on VGmusic.com, but it's an early game. Really cheap sounding drums and 'trumpets'. At least it's not very muffled.

TMNT: Tournament Fighters has very muffled drums and guitar chords, but the bass and some leads are pretty nice. Turtles in Time sounds way cleaner and punchier though judging from youtube clips.

Batman Returns has a pretty crappy orchestral hit that sticks out like a sore thumb, and pretty weak snare drums but it's not too shabby otherwise.

The others range from good to great, Pokey Means Business is definitely impressive and one of my fav tunes on the SNES.

[Rob2600]

Batman Returns has a pretty crappy orchestral hit that sticks out like a sore thumb, and pretty weak snare drums but it's not too shabby otherwise.

I believe you're referring to the crash cymbal. And the snare drum in orchestra music isn't supposed to be quite as upfront and forceful as in rock music. Overall, I think the musician at Konami did a great job given the limitations. :)

[PresidentLeever]

Maybe so, but when the rest of the percussion is forceful (the timpani sounds huge) it kind of sounds like something's missing and it's not as dynamic as it could be. Yes, the crash cymbal :) Not sure what happened there.

Tournament Fighters music on MD/GEN is completely different in style but I think it's worth mentioning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwjKJvX4SEY&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLA59FD8453E23BF33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOb0Fw08cNI

Nice opening synth (Michaelangelo) and arpeggios (Ray Fillet) here and there, thick and deep bass and quite strong percussion even if it's not as clear as possible. It's somewhat let down by the harsh lead instruments though, some PSG might've helped there.

Here's another impressive SNES track I've come across; Waterworld - Diving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H5YoFv09uQ

An FM version (seems quite similar to MD but with more channels used):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNRDvfkeF1w