Johnny Turbo and poor marketing's role in the failure of the Turbografx-16.

[treismac]

First off, there are usually multiple reasons for most outcomes. I do not think that marketing alone killed the Turbografx-16: there was Nintendo's monopolistic tactics that were later ruled illegal, the resulting lack of 3rd party support, the idiotic one controller only port on the system necessitating a multitap to play 2 players, and many good Japanese games never made their way across the ocean. However, I do think that a strong case can be made that the image projected by the marketing of the Turbografx-16 was severely uncool enough to dissuade prospective buyers.

Exhibit A:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e3/JohnnyTurbo.jpg

Why? Who ever thought kids would find this "hero" appealing, much less move units? A sideways hat and sunglasses can only do so much... I cringed when I first saw this. I knew Sega and Nintendo had the TG16 on the ropes, but I hoped it would put up a fight until the end. Johnny Turbo was the white towel.

Exhibit B:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ma7T_8XniKM/Rl1jUlvFfTI/AAAAAAAAATY/MMQRGy8Ny98/s400/Air_zonk.png

Perhaps if the entire video game playing demographic of the '90s were 2nd to 3rd graders, this would have been a slam dunk. The image by itself is fine. Better than fine, actually. Zonk is cool. The text is a disaster, however. Sticking the tongue out while performing surfing moves out of context is never cool, regardless of how many inches someone happens to be. This, sir, is reverse lemonade making.

Exhibit C:

Uhhh... I guess there was... a... hmm... Just look at it!

http://www.pinkgorillagames.com/news/johnny%20strikes%20back-thumb.jpg

What the hell, man!! Seriously! Only Johnny Turbo could make a Star Wars allusion lame. Perhaps 95% of the TG-16's lameness in the advertising is Johnny Turbos fault, and maybe Johnny T came along so late on in the 16-bit war that he was merely the wedgie-ready final nail in the already rotting corpse's coffin, but gadzooks! Any cache of cool the Turbografx might have been holding onto withered and/or died once it caught wind of Johnny boy.

End rant.

[Baloo]

IMO the Turbografx-16 just wasn't marketed enough here in the sates. And most of the games that were the best for the system stayed in Japan, and we got crud like Darkwing Duck and Talespin and TV Sports Basketball.

The biggest reason the system flopped? The library just wasn't there IMO. Even the pack-in game, Keith Courage in Alpha Zones, is junk.

[Aussie2B]

Blasphemy, Johnny Turbo is 100 times cooler than all of us combined, haha. I love Johnny sooooo freakin' much. :D My Gate of Thunder review in Video Game Collector exists for practically no other purpose than to be an ode to our dear Johnny.

As for his appearance, it was basically just an elaborate example of trolling, back before people even knew the term "troll" in that sense. Check out this link, which should be required by law to be in any topic that mentions Johnny Turbo:

http://sardoose.rustedlogic.net/reviews/jturbo/

[treismac]

Blasphemy, Johnny Turbo is 100 times cooler than all of us combined, haha. I love Johnny sooooo freakin' much. :D My Gate of Thunder review in Video Game Collector exists for practically no other purpose than to be an ode to our dear Johnny.

As for his appearance, it was basically just an elaborate example of trolling, back before people even knew the term "troll" in that sense. Check out this link, which should be required by law to be in any topic that mentions Johnny Turbo:

http://sardoose.rustedlogic.net/reviews/jturbo/

I was unaware that Johnny Turbo had any fans. I don't like to crap on anyone's sacred cows if it can be avoided, so accept my apologies. Now that I think of it, if there had to be any fans of JT, they probably would find their way to Digital Press.

So, just what is the appeal of Johnny Turbo to you, anyway? Is it a transference of your love of the underdog system unto a person who also was the very essence of underdog? I think that besides the aesthetic reasons I gave, his rhetoric always seemed desperate to me which compounded my dislike for his as a mascot for a sinking ship. Who knows? Perhaps I was transferring my anger over the demise of the Turbografx onto Johnny like he was an Old Testament sacrificial goat. As an act of contrition, I shall read the article you posed a link to.

[Aussie2B]

Heh, I'm just being facetious. It was an absolutely awful marketing campaign, but that's what make it so hilariously great. Even putting the absurd imagery aside, practically every line is so brilliantly quotable.

If you haven't already seen it, check out the link with the write-ups on each page (and the history behind the comic), and I think you'll start to understand the Johnny Turbo love. :)

[nebrazca78]

...combine the attitude of Sonic with the fatness of Mario...

Classic.

.

[RCM]

The public wasn't ready for anything not Nintendo when Turbo was released, and it took a little blue hedgehog stirring things up two years later to turn the tides.

I always wanted a Turbo back in the day, but it was too expensive and my mom didn't want another game console in the house. She felt the NES and the Gameboy (also released in '89, of course), was enough.

[retroman]

I still have my Turbo from back in the day, and ever the TurboDuo i got in High School..Both still in great shape and work great..I love the Turbo and wished it did better...For the time, it shit on Nintendo in graphics and game play for a lot of titles..

[Clownzilla]

"Why, We released Sherlock Holmes on CD almost two years ago"

AWESOME! When I think of CD powerhouse games I think of Sherlock Holmes. Yea, it was the first CD game (I believe) on the system but they really should of just said "we made CD games two years ago" or picked the second CD game released as a reference. Sherlock Holmes just doesn't sell the system.........

[ccovell]

There's more revealing information here about Johnny Turbo, and TTI's state of affairs back in the day: http://video-game-ephemera.com/041.htm

[Steve W]

I think that the Turbo was fully capable of competing fairly well with the Genesis in terms of power, but a lot of the games released didn't show what it could do. There was the issue of the cover art on the games, which notoriously sucked and didn't make people want to get the system. I'm guessing that they only brought over games that had virtually no Japanese in them for convenience, if they had only licensed some better games from other publishers and some translators to rewrite the text rather than waiting for someone like Working Designs to do it, they could have really competed in the marketplace. I just got a PC Engine and I've been ordering a few random games for it from Japanese websites based solely on the cover art. Some are pretty cool looking, like Out Live (high-tech dungeon crawler in a space station) but would need translation to make any sense of it. Is translating Kanji to English so difficult that they couldn't hire a small staff to enable them to bring the best games over rather than the easiest?

[treismac]

There's more revealing information here about Johnny Turbo, and TTI's state of affairs back in the day: http://video-game-ephemera.com/041.htm

Summabitch...

This article with the other one actually makes "sense" (sorta) of the whole Johnny Turbo fiasco.

[j_factor]

Hey, this is where I got my avatar and custom title from!

Johnny Turbo was created to advertise the Duo. By the time the Duo came out, the writing was on the wall for the Turbo. It was an attempt at a relaunch, but I don't think many people expected it to be a success. Johnny Turbo was basically a big "fuck it" on the part of the marketing team.

[treismac]

By the time the Duo came out, the writing was on the wall for the Turbo. It was an attempt at a relaunch, but I don't think many people expected it to be a success. Johnny Turbo was basically a big "fuck it" on the part of the marketing team.

Why not go down with guns blazing though? Johnny Turbo wasn't even a pop gun to continue with the gun metaphor. I mean, sure, they didn't stand much of a chance of resurrecting the system, but to use an inside joke to market something that doesn't have much appeal going for it anyway??? Maybe the Turbografx-16 wasn't anything special to them and they just connected the system to their jobs they disliked. To this day, I feel the Turbografx-16 was worth fighting for rather than throwing up hands in surrender. Perhaps the fact that hardly any of the worthwhile PC Engine games found their way over to the US due to laziness in not wanting to translate the text discouraged the Turbografx team to where they were like "fuck it."

[Shingetter]

Is translating Kanji to English so difficult that they couldn't hire a small staff to enable them to bring the best games over rather than the easiest?

Off topic but why won't Google Goggles on my Android do translation?

[TheRedEye]

I met Johnny Turbo at this past E3, at the Videogame History Museum booth! I have his card!

[Kitsune Sniper]

I think that the Turbo was fully capable of competing fairly well with the Genesis in terms of power, but a lot of the games released didn't show what it could do. There was the issue of the cover art on the games, which notoriously sucked and didn't make people want to get the system. I'm guessing that they only brought over games that had virtually no Japanese in them for convenience, if they had only licensed some better games from other publishers and some translators to rewrite the text rather than waiting for someone like Working Designs to do it, they could have really competed in the marketplace. I just got a PC Engine and I've been ordering a few random games for it from Japanese websites based solely on the cover art. Some are pretty cool looking, like Out Live (high-tech dungeon crawler in a space station) but would need translation to make any sense of it. Is translating Kanji to English so difficult that they couldn't hire a small staff to enable them to bring the best games over rather than the easiest?

There's a lot more involved in localizing a game than just translating the text. You also have to reprogram it so it displays English text without issues, modify existing code so the text fits, QA testing... and of course, actual translators charge a lot of money.

I know romhacking makes the process look easy, but it's not.

RedEye:
So what's John Brandstetter been up to lately?

[Peonpiate]

I think distribution plays a role in its failure to, never once as a kid did I see a TG-16 for sale. KB toys never had it, K-Mart [which was basically Walmart in power/sales back then] never had it. I also never saw one at Sears or Jcpenny back then. It hurt the TG even more when you factor in that most of the people buying consoles at that time [usually for their kids] bought them on a spur of the moment decision, its easy to see why most people today are like "TG what? Whats that?"...It had zero distribution outside of a select few cities and buying it over the phone. And most video game players back then were young boys, really which boy was going to call up a distribution center for a TG when a NES was all the rage ?

Sega did a great job over coming that problem, much of the blame lied with Nintendo for threatening retailers. But Sega still got its foot in the door at places that mattered back then - KB toys and K-Mart. I know K-Mart in my area back then eventually had a Kiosk setup with Sonic, that caught attention and sure enough kids at school started saying they owned one.

Atari Jaguar is sort of in the same boat as the above, bad distribution [but it also had mostly bad games aswell so imo it was doomed from the start no matter what, unlike the TG].


Today distribution doesn't matter nearly as much since we have the internet and online sales which side step the brick and mortar store issue altogether. But back then it was do or die if you wernt in a K-Mart.

[Bojay1997]

I think that the Turbo was fully capable of competing fairly well with the Genesis in terms of power, but a lot of the games released didn't show what it could do. There was the issue of the cover art on the games, which notoriously sucked and didn't make people want to get the system. I'm guessing that they only brought over games that had virtually no Japanese in them for convenience, if they had only licensed some better games from other publishers and some translators to rewrite the text rather than waiting for someone like Working Designs to do it, they could have really competed in the marketplace. I just got a PC Engine and I've been ordering a few random games for it from Japanese websites based solely on the cover art. Some are pretty cool looking, like Out Live (high-tech dungeon crawler in a space station) but would need translation to make any sense of it. Is translating Kanji to English so difficult that they couldn't hire a small staff to enable them to bring the best games over rather than the easiest?

But was releasing a bunch of niche titles really a way to mass market success? While you and I and some other more dedicated gamers may have loved obscure Japanese RPGs or quirky action games, I just don't think the market was there for them in the early 90s in the US. It's only been in the last ten years or so that mainstream gamers have been supporting more niche titles and part of that is just that the number of gamers has increased and so a company like Atlus or NIS or Aksys can sell 30K - 50K copies of a game and still make money.

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

Back in the day I really hated NEC's marketing methods. One evening when I was bored a few years back I messed around with the Johnny Turbo ad. I really hated that fucking ad to no end.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/turbo1-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/turbo2-1.jpg

[Steve W]

Off topic but why won't Google Goggles on my Android do translation?
If your Android phone is anything like mine, it's because it sucks. If I ever meet an Android programmer, I'll kick 'em in the balls.


I think distribution plays a role in its failure to, never once as a kid did I see a TG-16 for sale. KB toys never had it, K-Mart [which was basically Walmart in power/sales back then] never had it. I also never saw one at Sears or Jcpenny back then.
Toys R' Us had them, and GameStop, Electronics Boutique, and other game stores like Funcoland had them. If you were in a city, you had access to Turbo systems and games. You had to keep an eye out for them, but they were there. Out in the boonies, not so much. GameStop back in the day was a good place to get games, since after a while they'd mark them down. I bought my Bonk 3 there marked down to $19!


But was releasing a bunch of niche titles really a way to mass market success?
But they didn't need to get mass market success. There's nothing wrong with a niche system, just look at the Neo-Geo. They were getting into a foreign market for the first time that they had no experience in, so the best they could hope for was being a niche player (Sony went mass market on their first try with the Playstation, but they spent billions to get there, and NEC didn't have that luxury). And they couldn't even manage that. When it comes down to it, the games make the system. And not a lot of great games made it over, just the easiest games to 'port'. Which is why there's so many shooters on the TG-16, very minimal text altering required.

[Bojay1997]

If your Android phone is anything like mine, it's because it sucks. If I ever meet an Android programmer, I'll kick 'em in the balls.


Toys R' Us had them, and GameStop, Electronics Boutique, and other game stores like Funcoland had them. If you were in a city, you had access to Turbo systems and games. You had to keep an eye out for them, but they were there. Out in the boonies, not so much. GameStop back in the day was a good place to get games, since after a while they'd mark them down. I bought my Bonk 3 there marked down to $19!


But they didn't need to get mass market success. There's nothing wrong with a niche system, just look at the Neo-Geo. They were getting into a foreign market for the first time that they had no experience in, so the best they could hope for was being a niche player (Sony went mass market on their first try with the Playstation, but they spent billions to get there, and NEC didn't have that luxury). And they couldn't even manage that. When it comes down to it, the games make the system. And not a lot of great games made it over, just the easiest games to 'port'. Which is why there's so many shooters on the TG-16, very minimal text altering required.

NEC was not some tiny company like SNK was in the 90s. They were huge in computers, televisions, industrial and consumer products and the PC Engine had sold quite well in Japan. Their expectation was to launch a mass market product, not some niche product like the Neo Geo AES that can sell a couple thousand copies of a game at $300 and still turn a decent profit. Plus, SNK had a large arcade market at the time and the games were consistent across the AES and MVS platforms, were arcade oriented (i.e. no RPGs, but plenty of fighting games, SHMUPS and action games that required little text) and in dual English and Japanese for the most part which meant that the investment and risk was on the arcade side and the home market was just an easy additional revenue stream.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I don't like to crap on anyone's sacred cows if it can be avoided, so accept my apologies.

I don't either. Kill 'em and grill 'em, I say! :D

Johnny Turbo is a proto-Kevin Butler with Asperger's and down syndrome.

[Aussie2B]

Toys R' Us had them, and GameStop, Electronics Boutique, and other game stores like Funcoland had them. If you were in a city, you had access to Turbo systems and games. You had to keep an eye out for them, but they were there. Out in the boonies, not so much. GameStop back in the day was a good place to get games, since after a while they'd mark them down. I bought my Bonk 3 there marked down to $19!

Yeah, that's what I was going to point out. The TG-16 may have started with a couple test markets (not unlike the NES), but it was ultimately a nationally released system. Everyone had access to a brick and mortar with it, but if you lived in the middle of nowhere, you may have had to leave your town to find one of the select stores (since said stores weren't quite as widespread then as they are now). The TG-16 was indeed more popular in the big cities since they had more of a marketing push there, but it's silly to suggest that all other people had to order by phone/mail. Why would they pay for TV spots and ads in nationally-distributed magazines if it wasn't available at retail outside of a select few cities?

[Robocop2]

Out of all the systems I've owned over my life; only my Wii has fewer spaces in my library. I miss my TG 16 but overall it was pretty sparse on titles. Not that it matters alot of RPG's didn't make it here due to text issues but I hate JRPG's with a passion so same problem. It's not that the TG had fewer games in genres I enjoy; its just that both the SNES and Genesis had more and I was the only person I knew who had a TG. So market saturation is more of what killed the TG than anything else.

On another note; I love Johnny Turbo for his campiness and what reeks of desperation on TTI's part.

[stargate]

I love my TG-16, but felt royally screwed over when I chose to buy it over the Genny back in the day. Back then there were only a handful of TG-16 titles available on the shelves and the supply got sparser and sparser. I remember going to Electronics Boutique and the shelf space was down to a half shelf with maybe 5 titles. But the TG-16 did have promise and I always though its best games looked much better than the Genny... just bursting with color and huge massive sprites. Legendary Axe and Ninja Spirit were good examples of what this system could do. But no software support made it difficult to be a supporter and I sold mine to a retarded kid down the street for cheap. His parents actually complained that I had ripped him off. True story.

[SpaceHarrier]

I only caught the tail end of this ad campaign back in its day: Nov '91 issue of EGM. Didn't catch on to all the homo-erotic leanings until I was flipping through the mag recently..

Interesting that Johnny Turbo was based on a real person! I wonder where he is now, and whether he keeps up the good fight.

[Peonpiate]

If your Android phone is anything like mine, it's because it sucks. If I ever meet an Android programmer, I'll kick 'em in the balls.


Toys R' Us had them, and GameStop, Electronics Boutique, and other game stores like Funcoland had them. If you were in a city, you had access to Turbo systems and games. You had to keep an eye out for them, but they were there. Out in the boonies, not so much. GameStop back in the day was a good place to get games, since after a while they'd mark them down. I bought my Bonk 3 there marked down to $19!


But they didn't need to get mass market success. There's nothing wrong with a niche system, just look at the Neo-Geo. They were getting into a foreign market for the first time that they had no experience in, so the best they could hope for was being a niche player (Sony went mass market on their first try with the Playstation, but they spent billions to get there, and NEC didn't have that luxury). And they couldn't even manage that. When it comes down to it, the games make the system. And not a lot of great games made it over, just the easiest games to 'port'. Which is why there's so many shooters on the TG-16, very minimal text altering required.


Yes I lived in the sticks as a kid, which is better known as southwestern PA and that region is famous for Amish buggies to this day [yes, it was that stickish but no i am not Amish]. It is a very beautiful region that I wish to visit again someday [i now live in Miami].

My point really was that, if the sticks had NES's on sale every which way you looked, and eventually the Genesis found its way out there to, NEC lost out. Sure NEC had access to the large metro areas but it still was not distributed to the extent that NES and Genesis were. That alone cost them sales. Thats not to say it was THE reason they failed, it wasnt the only reason but I like to think it contributed a good deal.


Edit- Now that I think about it, a BB in that area did have a TG16 in stock but it wasn't displayed very well. I tried out bloody wolf on the tv hooked up to a TG16 and i thought it was a pretty cool game at the time. Sort of like Metal Gear [NES]. The TG packaging [from what i remember] was a turnoff though and I looked at the Genny stuff instead shortly after and settled on the SNES in the end, with Final Fantasy 3 [great purchase and still have both].

[Jorpho]

I was going to post a link to the Sardius Experience, but someone has tended to that already, as is right and proper. Read that, oh, eight years ago, looks like (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14109). Seems Mr. Brandstetter's ftdgames.com has gone kaput in the meantime.

Let's not forget that Atari did something at least vaguely in the same direction, if nowhere near the same magnitude: [EDIT: Not really Atari. Oops.]
http://www.atariage.com/magazines/magazine_page.html?MagazineID=13&CurrentPage=24
http://www.atariage.com/magazines/magazine_page.html?MagazineID=13&CurrentPage=25
(Origin in http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12081 .)

And however flawed TTI's marketing may have been, it still makes vaguely more sense to me than Tonka's branding of the SMS with blue graph paper and Times New Roman. Gaahh.

[Steve W]

The "Adventures of Atari" were just cartoon strips in issues of The Atarian Magazine, they weren't advertisements in 'real' gaming mags. I always liked that strip, it was so hokey. Although as I read it now, the enemies tend to have that Japanese stereotype look that was used in propaganda posters and comics in World War II. That's a little weird.

[SparTonberry]

It's off topic, but when I saw "Exhibit B" in the OP, all I could think is "that's still a better ad than Nintendo's coked-up Play It Loud ads (from the latter days of the SNES)".
One went something like "Stunt Race FX lets you pick from 24 tracks, while the only thing the other guy's game (pretty obviously Virtua Racing) lets you pick is your nose.", and some random TV ad showing off a bunch of grunge teens, some occasional and very momentary game footage (from Acclaim games, of all things), and text like "Give the World a Wedgie". Especially considering online console gaming was practically non-existent at the time, WTF does that mean?

[YoshiM]

I'm going to have to step to the side of the NEC/TTI marketing folks from back then on this-when you compare the ads for Johnny Turbo or even Air Zonk, they were in line with many of the ads that were released back in that era.

Game advertising in the early 90's was all about getting in your face, having attitude, being off-the-wall, anything to really separate one from another and rise up from the behemoth that was Nintendo. And many were probably as goofy as Johnny Turbo. Look at the original Sonic ads: you just saw a blue blur that spanned the bottoms of two or three magazine pages before you got a full page ad asking who hit pause. We were told he's fast and had attitude. And.....? What's so big about a blue HEDGEHOG? Why woudl I want to play as a blue hedgehog that ran fast? Of course, the proof was in the pudding when you sat down and played it or saw screen shots or actual commercials but in the early days prior to the game being released, it seemed a bit lame.

Then go back to the ads of Zero The Kamikaze Squirrel, Aero the Acrobat, Boogerman, Haunting (starring Polterguy), James Pond: Robocod (where he's seen in a soda shop asking Sonic if he can do the same tricks the fish could). Pretty much any "mascot" style ad trying to show off how great or off beat (and thus "cool") the character was ranked pretty close to that Air Zonk ad.

With that in mind, look at what the Johnny Turbo ads really are: a method of getting the Turbo name into a prospective customer's head. It wasn't a "last ditch effort"-it followed the trend of any other early-to-mid 90's game advertising. It was so ridiculous, whether you liked the ad or not, it stuck. I would bet some Meseta that Johnny caused some gamers to take pause when they walked past a Duo, snicker about Johnny Turbo and then actively look at the system to see what it was all about.

By looking at these threads, it's obvious the advertising was a success: people are STILL talking about the ads.

One of the big things, like others mentioned, that killed the Turbo in the States was not having recognizable games that could rope gamers in. By the time these ads came out, the Turbo's destiny was already carved in stone. All they could do was just go through the motions and follow the same advertising concept that everyone else did because it "worked".

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, I'd say game advertising was awful throughout the entire 90s. Anyone remember this groan-worthy Legend of Dragoon commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEs2OlW25Ao

Or how about when Nintendo Power completely changed the style of their subscription pages at the beginning of each issue. They went from innocuous, cute stuff in the 80s to weird, gross junk in the 90s like some baseball guy's ass and a jar of toenail clippings.

That was the general direction in the 90s. It started with stuff like Ren & Stimpy where it was gross but funny, but they kept pumping up the gross and edgy factors until you got to completely uncharming garbage like Aaahh!!! Real Monsters.

[GarrettCRW]

It's a bit facetious to say that Turbo games in the US were selected for the ease of translation when one of the pack-ins for the CD add-on, Ys Book I & II, featured top voice acting talent (Michael Bell, Alan Oppenheimer, Dan Gilvezan, and Jim Cummings) nearly a decade before any other publisher attempted to hire such talent for their games.

[Tempest]

I don't think the TG-16's failure can be blamed on Johnny Turbo, the comic was just as bad as so many other gaming comic/advertisements back then (remember GamePro's comic?). Like most people here have been saying, the TG-16 and Duo died because of lack of distribution and marketing. The ONLY place I ever saw a TG-16 around here (SE Michigan) was at Babbages on their advertising video they used to play in the front of the store (god I miss those days). I never saw one at TRU, K-Mart, K-bee, or anywhere else that sold video games. In fact the only other place I saw coverage of it was in GamePro, which made me want one so badly.

I never did get one because all my friends either had Nintendo or Sega so that's what I wanted. When you're in your early teens you generally want to have what your friends have, regardless of how good or bad it is (thankfully the NES and Genesis rocked). Of course if I was older back then I probably would have gotten it and shunned what everyone else was doing.

I never saw the Duo advertised anywhere. I barely remember the CD attachment. GamePro did a little write up on Addams Family which made me want the CD add-on badly, thankfully I never got one because that game SUCKS. The TG-16 and CD were odd expensive toys that only weird hard core gaming people had, at the time I didn't really care that I was missing out on it. Of course now I'm one of those weird hard core gaming people and absolutely love my Duo. :)

EDIT: I take that back. In the TG-16's last days I do remember seeing it at TRU. They had a tiny little TG-16 (might have been CD and Duo stuff too, I can't remember) section because they had a little kiosk there with Air Zonk in it and I loved playing it. The section was super tiny and no one was ever there. It disappeared shortly after.

Tempest

[Bratwurst]

I don't think the problem was advertising either, when the TG-16 was being sold the only place you could get stuff for it in my area within an hour's drive was a single Toys R Us.

Still one of my favorite systems.

[YoshiM]

EDIT: I take that back. In the TG-16's last days I do remember seeing it at TRU. They had a tiny little TG-16 (might have been CD and Duo stuff too, I can't remember) section because they had a little kiosk there with Air Zonk in it and I loved playing it. The section was super tiny and no one was ever there. It disappeared shortly after.

That's the only place I saw a TG-16:at a Toys R Us and on clearance. The city I lived by wasn't small-47,000 I think at that point perhaps which was on par with Green Bay, but no Turbo.

It was about as bad as the SMS. Only place in town that had the stuff was Kohls department store.

[Tempest]

It was about as bad as the SMS. Only place in town that had the stuff was Kohls department store.
I do remember seeing SMS stuff at TRU in the early days because the games looked so odd and I wondered what system they were for (like Alex Kidd and the Lost Stars). As Nintendo's dominance started to assert itself the SMS section pretty much disappeared and it was NES and some C-64 stuff (well into the 90's which I thought was odd).

Tempest

[Edmond Dantes]

I read an article just recently (actually, I think it was the Trivia section at the Mortal Kombat wiki) which said that a Turbo version of MK1 was planned, but TTI dropped the project because "Americans are sick of fighting games."

That, to me, explains it all about why the TG16 failed.

Sad, but sometimes great projects are in the hands of complete doo-doo heads.

[Tempest]

I read an article just recently (actually, I think it was the Trivia section at the Mortal Kombat wiki) which said that a Turbo version of MK1 was planned, but TTI dropped the project because "Americans are sick of fighting games."

That, to me, explains it all about why the TG16 failed.

Sad, but sometimes great projects are in the hands of complete doo-doo heads.
Yeah I don't think that's a great loss. MK on the TG-16 would have sucked pretty hard.

Tempest

[j_factor]

Yeah I don't think that's a great loss. MK on the TG-16 would have sucked pretty hard.

Tempest

What makes you say that? The PC Engine version of Street Fighter II' was quite good.

[Tempest]

What makes you say that? The PC Engine version of Street Fighter II' was quite good.
True, but something tells me they weren't going to splurge on the memory for MK.

Tempest

[Aussie2B]

It does make you wonder, though, if that attitude explains why PC Engine Street Fighter II' never came out in the US. I usually give publishers the benefit of the doubt in terms of the value of their reasoning for not localizing a title, but that one just seems boneheaded to me.

[SparTonberry]

If I remember, did NEC also like to randomly throw the word "CD" into their ads, or is it just me?

I remember Johnny Turbo. He was talking about how Gate of Thunder was "one of the most intense CD-shooters". Oh, a CD-shooter. So, the game's like Duck Hunt? Sounds like a good follow-up to a PC-98 game called Cray Shoot (actually a DH clone that should've been Clay Shoot). Y'know once we've rid the world of super-computers for whatever reason, gotta destroy the removable media they left behind.
And by the ad, Lords of Thunder has "seven of the most ruthless graphically-intense CD bosses". So... are we fighting evil CDs, controlling an army of audio-tapes perhaps?:roll:

[joshnickerson]

So... are we fighting evil CDs, controlling an army of audio-tapes perhaps?:roll:

That would make the final boss Soundwave, right?
http://geek-news.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/soundwave.jpg

[BlastProcessing402]

It wasn't hard to find around here, TRU, Children's Palace, Babbages, EB, pretty much all the places people here were going to get games at the time had it. Yet I still never met another person who had one other than on the internet.

I knew other people with Genesises, SNESes, and nearly everyone had NESes, but never a TG16.

I don't think you can discount the lack of 3rd party support as a factor. Other than Working Designs stuff, how many 3rd party games were there? It's almost as bad as Sega Master System (in the US anyway) on that part.

Add to that how it came out at roughly the same time as Genesis, yet had graphics and sound which, while a huge step up from the NES, were inferior to that one, and on top of that, if you want to play with your friends not only do you need a 2nd controller but a friggin multitap?

Speaking of controllers, while the NEC pads were nice, basically a slight refinement of the NES pads, the Genesis pads had a lot more "wow" factor, with the sleek curves and the additional action button. Sure when you really look at it they both had the same number of buttons, but select and run plus two action buttons just seems less cool than start plus three action buttons.

And while back in the day it wasn't as much of an issue as it would become a few years later, the lack of support for anything but an RF box for hooking it up to a TV was a major drag. Sure, there were turboboosters and the CD addon to correct this, but like the multitap it just felt like they were trying to nickle and dime you with the system. It's like buying a car and finding out the tires aren't included.

[treismac]

It's off topic, but when I saw "Exhibit B" in the OP, all I could think is "that's still a better ad than Nintendo's coked-up Play It Loud ads (from the latter days of the SNES)".
One went something like "Stunt Race FX lets you pick from 24 tracks, while the only thing the other guy's game (pretty obviously Virtua Racing) lets you pick is your nose.", and some random TV ad showing off a bunch of grunge teens, some occasional and very momentary game footage (from Acclaim games, of all things), and text like "Give the World a Wedgie". Especially considering online console gaming was practically non-existent at the time, WTF does that mean?

Nintendo had more than enough third party support, quality games, and credibility to run the occasional really lame ad. The Turbografx-16, unfortunately, did not have the same luxury. I think one of the biggest sins that Johnny Turbo committed is that he left print ads that were easily scannable for posterity to snicker at. The lame Nintendo Stunt Race FX commercial, however, probably won't be as easy to track down on the internet and point your finger at and say, "Ha! Nintendo is lame!"

[treismac]

... look at what the Johnny Turbo ads really are: a method of getting the Turbo name into a prospective customer's head. It wasn't a "last ditch effort"-it followed the trend of any other early-to-mid 90's game advertising. It was so ridiculous, whether you liked the ad or not, it stuck. I would bet some Meseta that Johnny caused some gamers to take pause when they walked past a Duo, snicker about Johnny Turbo and then actively look at the system to see what it was all about.

By looking at these threads, it's obvious the advertising was a success: people are STILL talking about the ads. .

I sorta/kinda agree and don't agree with your point about the Johnny Turbo ads being "a success" because "people are STILL talking about the ads". Memorable can be good, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee the desired results. I'm not an expert on marketing by any means, but from my understanding part of marketing is making your product desirable. Creating curiosity is good but it ain't enough. Sure, Johnny T created curiosity but I don't think he made the TG-16 remotely desirable. In all honesty, without the games being there, no advertising campaign could have achieved that miracle. I imagine that 90% of retro gamers who remember Johnny Turbo were owners of the Turbografx-16 or Duo who cringed at this last ditch effort to save their system.

Even though I didn't quote your text pertaining to it, you are right in that MUCH of '90s video game ads were very lame in their attempts to be edgy and cool.

[treismac]

And while back in the day it wasn't as much of an issue as it would become a few years later, the lack of support for anything but an RF box for hooking it up to a TV was a major drag. Sure, there were turboboosters and the CD addon to correct this, but like the multitap it just felt like they were trying to nickle and dime you with the system. It's like buying a car and finding out the tires aren't included.

The same "nickle and dime" gripe came to mind yesterday as I was driving around, contemplating what the TG-16 did wrong (other than simply their lack of games). I really hate the RF box crap on my TG-16 over AV outputs, which the NES even had one generation earlier. Oddly enough, the only 2 player game I ever had for the system was Military Madness with its turn-based playing so I never needed a Turbo Tap.

[Edmond Dantes]

Yeah I don't think that's a great loss. MK on the TG-16 would have sucked pretty hard.

Tempest

No worse than the Game Boy version.

The point is though that passing on MK showed they were completely out of touch, which surely couldn't have helped.

[j_factor]

That's pretty late, though. The system was already on life support.

[Peonpiate]

Yeah I don't think that's a great loss. MK on the TG-16 would have sucked pretty hard.

Tempest


Im pretty sure it would have handed the Sega version its ass if MK1 made it to the TG, the color limit for one is a huge advantage over Sega as far as fighters went. And couple that with TTi's lax censorship standards, it probably would have been the best overall port. Good graphics + No censorship ? Considering the Genesis port was ugly and the SNES version was neutered by request of Nintendo, it would be no contest.

[YoshiM]

I sorta/kinda agree and don't agree with your point about the Johnny Turbo ads being "a success" because "people are STILL talking about the ads". Memorable can be good, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee the desired results. I'm not an expert on marketing by any means, but from my understanding part of marketing is making your product desirable. Creating curiosity is good but it ain't enough. Sure, Johnny T created curiosity but I don't think he made the TG-16 remotely desirable.

True a product should be shown as desirable but that in itself can be very subjective and hard to really sell if you have competition. Look at beer: all the brands have had ads that say how smooth and great tasting their product is. Some will even state how they are made (spring water, cold water from mountains, the chilled urine from skunks, etc.) to entice you but when you stack them all up ad wise, they are all saying the same thing. In the end, it's the memorable that can win out. Did the Budweiser frogs make a Bud more desirable? Not really, but the commercial was funny and it stuck in a lot of brains. It's a derivative concept back when a jingle on the radio could make or break your product.

What makes the early 90's an interesting time is that the game companies took the system war pissing matches from the Atari/Intellivision/Coleco days and hooked their bladders up to gigantic fuel tankers. Lame though they may be in today's eyes, back then these ads created what we call "fanboys" today. Hard to think but it did. Flip through the letter sections of the popular magazines of the time and you could see the lines drawn in the sand.

In parting, gotta share some of the memorable ones:

Yoshi's Island (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AyE3EXTj58)

Sega Saturn: Theater of the Eye (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP3ciD4Efr0)

"WHHATT'S GOING ON UP THERE???!!!!!"

[j_factor]

Im pretty sure it would have handed the Sega version its ass if MK1 made it to the TG, the color limit for one is a huge advantage over Sega as far as fighters went. And couple that with TTi's lax censorship standards, it probably would have been the best overall port. Good graphics + No censorship ? Considering the Genesis port was ugly and the SNES version was neutered by request of Nintendo, it would be no contest.

It really depends. What format is Mortal Kombat Turbo on? If hucard, ROM size is a potential concern. Larger hucards were expensive and hucards were largely de-emphasized in favor of CD. Street Fighter II' was very much an exception -- it's the only hucard ever made larger than 8 megabit. Super CD didn't have enough RAM, and making it an Arcade Card game pushes it to early '94 at best (plus you have to release the Arcade Card).

Problems aside, the name "Mortal Kombat" was hot shit and TTI was offered it as an exclusive. They could've significantly cut into Sega.

[Jorpho]

Come now, it hardly ended with the early 90's. Acclaim's utter madness kept going for a few more years after Nintendo and Sega stopped being quite so crazy.

And then there's http://www.flickr.com/photos/54490598@N07/sets/72157624961995025/ .

[Steve W]

And then there's http://www.flickr.com/photos/54490598@N07/sets/72157624961995025/ .
Holy crap, those are f•••ed up. Those had to be done in Europe, I can't imagine them trying to pull those off here.

[TurboGenesis]

I don't think the TG-16's failure can be blamed on Johnny Turbo, the comic was just as bad as so many other gaming comic/advertisements back then (remember GamePro's comic?). Like most people here have been saying, the TG-16 and Duo died because of lack of distribution and marketing. The ONLY place I ever saw a TG-16 around here (SE Michigan) was at Babbages on their advertising video they used to play in the front of the store (god I miss those days). I never saw one at TRU, K-Mart, K-bee, or anywhere else that sold video games. In fact the only other place I saw coverage of it was in GamePro, which made me want one so badly.


EDIT: I take that back. In the TG-16's last days I do remember seeing it at TRU. They had a tiny little TG-16 (might have been CD and Duo stuff too, I can't remember) section because they had a little kiosk there with Air Zonk in it and I loved playing it. The section was super tiny and no one was ever there. It disappeared shortly after.

Tempest

I grew up in SE Michigan too (Canton) and TG-16 was available at K-Mart - that's where I bought mine at in June of 1990! I also bought all my games at Children's Palace in Westland til they closed then went to TRU through the mid 90s… (still have some receipts - $59.99 for Splatterhouse!)

games could be rented at Movies & More and Game Masters (where I worked in high school) I bought many of the games from both stores when they started selling off their stock…

I know the system wasn't very popular… I originally got suckered into getting it but I was really happy with it and love it to this day!

[Koa Zo]

What played a significant role in my decision to purchase a Genesis over a TurboGrafx was that the Turbo requires an adapter to play 2-player games.

The numerous accessories which accompanied the TurboGrafx was a huge factor in turning-off many consumers.

[Rob2600]

it hardly ended with the early 90's. Acclaim's utter madness kept going for a few more years after Nintendo and Sega stopped being quite so crazy.

True. Remember in 2007, when Sony used a decapitated goat to market God of War II in Europe?

"...Sony has created an uproar with a photo from their official magazine, showing a burly man wearing fur, a topless girl wearing body paint and no pasties, and a mostly decapitated goat. ... During a release party for God of War II in Athens, attendees were invited to reach into the head-hanging-on-by-a-thread goat and eat still-warm intestines... Sony has apologized and is recalling the 80,000 issues of the magazine."

http://kotaku.com/256198/sony-decapitates-goat-raises-ire

[Tempest]

I grew up in SE Michigan too (Canton) and TG-16 was available at K-Mart - that's where I bought mine at in June of 1990! I also bought all my games at Children's Palace in Westland til they closed then went to TRU through the mid 90s… (still have some receipts - $59.99 for Splatterhouse!)
!
Oh yeah, I had forgotten about Children's Palace, that's where I got my Lynx. I never saw it at out local K-Mart though (West Bloomfield area), maybe that was a regional thing?

Tempest

[j_factor]

In my neck of the woods, K Mart didn't even carry video games until '96 or '97.

[TurboGenesis]

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about Children's Palace, that's where I got my Lynx. I never saw it at out local K-Mart though (West Bloomfield area), maybe that was a regional thing?

Tempest

It is quite possible? K-Mart only stocked the Turbo Grafx 16 at its initial release - I purchased the console as well as my first game (The Legendary Axe) at K-Mart… they never carried any newer titles and never restocked the console after mid 1990…

Children's Palace was the store my mother took me to every month (while she would shop at Pace) and I focused on purchasing TG-16 as well as SMS games as they were not available at most other retailers…

[The Dord]

I grew up in SE Michigan too (Canton) and TG-16 was available at K-Mart - that's where I bought mine at in June of 1990! I also bought all my games at Children's Palace in Westland til they closed then went to TRU through the mid 90s… (still have some receipts - $59.99 for Splatterhouse!)

games could be rented at Movies & More and Game Masters (where I worked in high school) I bought many of the games from both stores when they started selling off their stock…

I know the system wasn't very popular… I originally got suckered into getting it but I was really happy with it and love it to this day!

Wow I only live in Bellevile and I remembered the same thing. The mail order catalog was an easier way to get their products imho

[Tempest]

Wow I only live in Bellevile and I remembered the same thing. The mail order catalog was an easier way to get their products imho
Maybe they had it in their catalog, I never looked at that. Our K-Mart barely carried any games other than some leftover 2600 stuff and a few NES games into the early 90's.

You're in Bellevile? You should come to one of our SE MI gaming get togethers sometime.

Tempest

[calthaer]

This entire thread is comedy gold! Those videos that YoshiM posted made my day all in themselves...the rest of the links to the "Johnny Turbo" comics made my day yesterday. So much epic badness in video game advertising...I'm really not sure what they were thinking.

How in the world did that Yoshi's Island commercial get the green light when the exploding hamster was censored in Maniac Mansion?

[TurboGenesis]

Wow I only live in Bellevile and I remembered the same thing. The mail order catalog was an easier way to get their products imho


Maybe they had it in their catalog, I never looked at that. Our K-Mart barely carried any games other than some leftover 2600 stuff and a few NES games into the early 90's.

You're in Bellevile? You should come to one of our SE MI gaming get togethers sometime.

Tempest

the Canton K-mart had a fair selection of games… typical NES stuff as well as a few Genesis and Turbo Grafx games at their release… they also had SNES at launch as that's where I also purchased my SNES!

hey Tempest, a bunch of us might be meeting up at Pinball Pete's next weekend… I can message you at AA or text you when I find out more details - of course, ANYONE is more welcome to come by and hang out!

[Tempest]

hey Tempest, a bunch of us might be meeting up at Pinball Pete's next weekend… I can message you at AA or text you when I find out more details - of course, ANYONE is more welcome to come by and hang out!
Sounds good. Shoot me PM with the info.