help: can't get duke3d to install/play right

[Soviet Conscript]

ok first the pc i'm trying to play it on

pentium II 200mhtz mmx
128 MB RAM
dos 6.2
awe32 with 8mb ram
S3 trio64V2 video card

so i finally found a copy of duke3d atomic edition cib. install it on the pc i just gave specs for and....in ran perfect. no errors, no slowdown, sound fx and music played flawless. so i play awhile and quit. i come back to it a few hours later, load it up and.....no music. everything plays fine the only issue is no music at all. i try running setup again and cant get the card to to play music. i assume this is just some random corrupt file so i completely delete the directory/game and decide to reinstall except now once i reinstall from the cd and try to run SETUP file my pc restarts. i tried deleteing the files and directory several times but to the same effect. i can install the game from the CD no problem but when i run SETUP my entire pc restarts. when i try to just play the game i get "Divide overflow" error. i'm stumped. i did nothing in the first place to make the music suddenly stop playing and certainly didn't change anything to account for the restart error. any suggestions?

i also decided to test the awe32 via the diagnose and it tested out fine, playing 8/16 bit sounds and synth music perfect.

[duralisis]

What does your autoexec.bat and config.sys look like? Generally this looks like a memory error. You should be able to boot clean with just himem, emm386 (no args) and maybe not even have to load aweutil; then try setup again. No idea why anything would change between reboots.

[Soviet Conscript]

What does your autoexec.bat and config.sys look like? Generally this looks like a memory error. You should be able to boot clean with just himem, emm386 (no args) and maybe not even have to load aweutil; then try setup again. No idea why anything would change between reboots.

autoexec.bat

set sound=c:\sb16
set blaster=a240 I10 d3 h7 p300 e640 t6
set midi=synth:1 map:e
set ctcm=c:\ctcm
c:\sb16diagnose /s
c:\sb16\mixerset /p /q
c:\ctcm\ctcu /s
lh /l:0;2,45456 /S C:\DOS\SMARTDRIV.EXE /X
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\DOS
SET PATH=C:\\TRMOUSE;%PATH%
LH /L:1,16032 C:\TRMOUSE\TRMOUSE.COM
SET TEMP=C:\DOS

LH /L:2,27952 C:\CDROM\MSCDEX /D:MSCD000



config.sys

DEVICE=C:\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
BUFFER=15,0
FILES=40
DOS=UMB
LASTDRIVE=Z
FCBS=4,0
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,12048 =C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVOCE=C:\CTCM\CTCM.EXE
DOS=HIGH
REM ** FILES=30

DEVICEHIGH /L:2,29632 =C:\CDROM\GSCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD000 /V

[Edmond Dantes]

My first question would be "why would it work the first time and then fail the second?" I would run defrag and scandisk on your computer to make sure there are no other issues before being quick to conclude its the game.

Incidentally, what OS did you use to play it the first time? Were there any programs you ran the first time that you for some reason didn't the second time, or vice versa (I sometimes find the behavior of one can actually be improved by running some other, seemingly unrelated program first)?

And why are you installing the game via the SETUP command (IIRC in DOS you're supposed to use INSTALL, SETUP is specifically for windows)?

[Jorpho]

It was my understanding that running the game with a modern source port on a more recent machine is the way to go, if you ever get tired of trying to work this out.

[jwmollman]

It was my understanding that running the game with a modern source port on a more recent machine is the way to go, if you ever get tired of trying to work this out.

I agree. Actually, two days ago I got my duke3d atomic data file (the 45MB one) working with EDuke32 (http://eduke32.com/) and I've been having a blast all this weekend.

[APE992]

I disagree, authentic is the best way as modern ports seem unable to faithfully recreate the original game as well as I fondly remember and can experience by running it on the original hardware. Modern ports are an acceptable substitute if proper hardware cannot be sourced as they are definitely better than nothing. Though it seems anyone younger than myself cares little for a faithful reproduction and more about cheap/free with a dash of lazy.

[Jorpho]

If you need to struggle with obscure DOS settings, mysterious reboots, and ambiguous error messages in order to "faithfully recreate the experience", then you have a lot more free time and patience than I.

[Soviet Conscript]

My first question would be "why would it work the first time and then fail the second?" I would run defrag and scandisk on your computer to make sure there are no other issues before being quick to conclude its the game.

Incidentally, what OS did you use to play it the first time? Were there any programs you ran the first time that you for some reason didn't the second time, or vice versa (I sometimes find the behavior of one can actually be improved by running some other, seemingly unrelated program first)?

And why are you installing the game via the SETUP command (IIRC in DOS you're supposed to use INSTALL, SETUP is specifically for windows)?

never had anouther OS install on this pc, has always been purely DOS. and i did nothing at all between plays. i didn't run any other programs at all. worked perfect the first time i played it. shut down pc to watch some netflix. came back and no music in game and then it won't allow me to reinstall. my first guess was maybe an issue with the awe32 drivers. maybe there acually sb16 drivers and its not fully working with the awe32 but then again in diagnose its playing the awe32 sounds and detecting the mem, ect. that also doesn't account for my inability to reinstall.

as for setup. am i doing it wrong? worked the first time for me. i first use the install command on the cd rom to transfer the files over to the hard drive then i run setup from the file on the hard drive.




I disagree, authentic is the best way as modern ports seem unable to faithfully recreate the original game as well as I fondly remember and can experience by running it on the original hardware. Modern ports are an acceptable substitute if proper hardware cannot be sourced as they are definitely better than nothing. Though it seems anyone younger than myself cares little for a faithful reproduction and more about cheap/free with a dash of lazy.

i agree...and this comes up all the time. theres nothing wrong with emulation but i thought the large point of forums like this is running stuff on its origional hardware. i mean we all mays well toss our stuff and condence it to one modern PC. other then a few times like this one i generally have a MUCH easier time running dos games on dos then through dosbox or the like.

[Jorpho]

I just wanted to point out that if when you get tired of this there's another perfectly accessible option available to you with which you can play the game. (Duke3D was not written for one specific PC configuration, so who is to say playing it one way is any less "authentic" than some other way, really?)

Maybe the AWE32 is still okay, but maybe some other hardware component of the PC has failed. What if you copy all the files off the CD onto your hard drive, and then run SETUP from there? Or, failing that, what if you make an image of the CD and mount it using SHSUCDHD ? (Maybe that won't be "authentic" enough for you for whatever strange reason, but it might help for diagnostic purposes, at least.)

I'd also wonder about disabling SmartDrive, but if you had that running the first time you installed the game (?) it would be unlikely to be a factor.

[Soviet Conscript]

I just wanted to point out that if when you get tired of this there's another perfectly accessible option available to you with which you can play the game. (Duke3D was not written for one specific PC configuration, so who is to say playing it one way is any less "authentic" than some other way, really?)

Maybe the AWE32 is still okay, but maybe some other hardware component of the PC has failed. What if you copy all the files off the CD onto your hard drive, and then run SETUP from there? Or, failing that, what if you make an image of the CD and mount it using SHSUCDHD ? (Maybe that won't be "authentic" enough for you for whatever strange reason, but it might help for diagnostic purposes, at least.)

I'd also wonder about disabling SmartDrive, but if you had that running the first time you installed the game (?) it would be unlikely to be a factor.

hmm, ill give a few of these ideas a shot after work today. if it fails i'm just going to reformat. i don't have much on this pc anyways.

[Edmond Dantes]

I know this sounds like a really basic question, but:

Is the CD actually in the drive when you try to play/reinstall?

I look at your problems... "no music, won't let me reinstall" and these sound like the issues I have when I run the game without the CD.

You said you "copied all the files to the hard drive," unfortunately that's a ghetto solution and in 99% of cases, it won't work. If you want the disc on HD, you need to make an iso of it then use SHSUCDHD to mount the iso.

Just do a test: Put the CD-ROM in the drive then play the game. If it works, then that's the problem.

[Soviet Conscript]

I know this sounds like a really basic question, but:

Is the CD actually in the drive when you try to play/reinstall?

I look at your problems... "no music, won't let me reinstall" and these sound like the issues I have when I run the game without the CD.

You said you "copied all the files to the hard drive," unfortunately that's a ghetto solution and in 99% of cases, it won't work. If you want the disc on HD, you need to make an iso of it then use SHSUCDHD to mount the iso.

Just do a test: Put the CD-ROM in the drive then play the game. If it works, then that's the problem.

funny you should mention that. that was my first thought to. I tried this several times. its definatly not because there is no cd in the drive. i even opened up the pc to make sure the cable was still connecting the sound card to the drive.

i'm a little confused by the whole cd to harddrive thing.....isn't this the correct way to install a game from a CD or have i been doing this wrong for the past 20 years? i didn't copy the files with a copy command. you use the install command from the cd drive to install to the hard drive....i'm reading that in the game manual right now.

[Jorpho]

Well, if that's what the manual says, it's unlikely to be wrong.

To put things a little more explicitly: SHSUCDHD is basically Daemon Tools for DOS. You can use it to emulate a CD-ROM drive using a CD image on your hard drive. If the game works with SHSUCDHD, then that may mean there is something wrong with your CD-ROM drive or IDE controller. If it doesn't work, then that may indicate the problem lies somewhere else.

[Actually, SHSUCDHD isn't exactly like Daemon Tools, since there's no convenient way to persuade DOS to play the CD audio tracks from a CD image, but it's similar otherwise.]

[duralisis]

I still think this has to be a memory address related issue, since the first thing setup or duke3d does is call the DOS extender. I noticed you have very specific parameters on most of your devices and you're using some that I'm not familiar with (perhaps memmaker?); so if all else fails, try a minimal config and see if setup runs AT ALL.

autoexec.bat

set sound=c:\sb16
set blaster=a240 I10 d3 h7 p300 e640 t6
PATH C:\DOS

config.sys

DEVICE=C:\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE
BUFFER=15,0
FILES=40
DOS=UMB
LASTDRIVE=Z
FCBS=4,0
DOS=HIGH

So long as your Sb16 is either jumpered for those settings (non-PNP) or has been previously configured, you shouldn't need to init necessarily.

In my experience (I grew up using/crashing DOS 6.22/Win3.11), the majority of the errors you'll run into concern memory addressing and resource conflicts. Outside hardware failure there's not much else.

[Edmond Dantes]

i didn't copy the files with a copy command

Ah, okay. This is the part where I was confused.

Actually, I find a few things here rather confusing. This is probably because I'm more familiar with Dos 7, which comes with Windows 98 (I tried Dos 6.2 once and found it... kind of alien), but just to make sure:


autoexec.bat

set sound=c:\sb16
set blaster=a240 I10 d3 h7 p300 e640 t6
set midi=synth:1 map:e
set ctcm=c:\ctcm
c:\sb16diagnose /s
c:\sb16\mixerset /p /q

you said you had an awe32. So why do all these directories say sb16?

What is "sb16diagnose /s" and why do you need it?


c:\ctcm\ctcu /s
lh /l:0;2,45456 /S C:\DOS\SMARTDRIV.EXE /X
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\DOS
SET PATH=C:\\TRMOUSE;%PATH%
LH /L:1,16032 C:\TRMOUSE\TRMOUSE.COM
SET TEMP=C:\DOS

LH /L:2,27952 C:\CDROM\MSCDEX /D:MSCD000


Why are your loadhigh (LH) commands all followed by /L:(numbers)? What is this for?

Also suggestion: You might want to look into alternative CD-ROM drivers. There are some freeware ones out there that work beautifully and don't take up much RAM, which could very well solve all your problems. In my autoexec I use the SHSUCD drivers which you can find here (http://adoxa.110mb.com/shsucdx/index.html) and in my config.sys I use vide-cdd.sys which you can find here (http://www.hiren.info/downloads/dos-files).



config.sys

DEVICE=C:\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
BUFFER=15,0

Suggestion: Change "Buffers" to 40. I'm not sure what the comma followed by zero is for.


FILES=40
DOS=UMB
LASTDRIVE=Z
FCBS=4,0
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,12048 =C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVOCE=C:\CTCM\CTCM.EXE
DOS=HIGH
REM ** FILES=30

DEVICEHIGH /L:2,29632 =C:\CDROM\GSCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD000 /V

This looks like it could use some organizing. Why is the DOS=HIGH so far down when it should be above DOS=UMB? Why do you have a REM followed by two asterisks, and why have a REM at all when you could simply delete the line?

By the way for some reason one line reads:
DEVOCE=C:\CTCM\CTCM.EXE
Unless that's somehow intentional, that typo could be the whole reason you're having problems.

[calthaer]

My only question so far would be: how exactly is it "not allowing you to reinstall?" Is it giving you an error message when you run the install / setup program, or...?

I don't think there was some sort of hard and fast standard in the 6.22 days where "INSTALL" was for DOS and "SETUP" was always used for Windows. Maybe once Windows 95 came out; not sure if there was a standard name for whatever would get run by autorun.inf (which wasn't part of Win 3.1/1). Some companies might have adhered to that nomenclature, but I don't think all of them did.

Pretty sure CTCM is Sound Blaster related...it sounded familiar to me, and now I think I know why:

http://www.daqarta.com/sb16.htm

Probably stands for something called "Creative Tech Configuration Manager." I'd guess that's the problem, if the line actually reads DEVOCE. In addition, I know there's some method of getting the AUTOEXEC to spell out everything it's doing on the screen - maybe @ECHO ON? It should show you an error message then if anything is failing during boot up.

[Edmond Dantes]

I don't think there was some sort of hard and fast standard in the 6.22 days where "INSTALL" was for DOS and "SETUP" was always used for Windows

You're right, my mistake. The "Setup is for windows" thing happened more once Windows 95 came out. Before then Setup was always the program to configure sound cards and the like.

I'm going to run a fresh install of Duke3D Atomic on my PC (500mhz AMD K6, 128mb RAM, Soundblaster 16, Voodoo 3 2000, running Windows 98 but got it set so it can boot directly into DOS) and see if I can replicate any of Soviet Conscript's errors. That and this thread has really put me in the mood for some alien busting.

EDIT:

Well, I tried, but on my system the game runs hunky-dorey as long as you either have the disc in the drive, or have the ISO mounted.

The only thing I can think of at this point is that the problem must be in the OP's autoexec and config and/or his sound card settings. He said the game worked the first time... I've had a number of PC games run fine the first time, but then won't work again until you fix an underlying issue with your PC or its configuration, so right now that's the only thing that makes sense.

If he redoes his autoexec and config.sys and he still has problems, I'm stumped.

[Soviet Conscript]

devoce was a typo

tried a few things and nothing worked. i just reformated and reinstalled dos so maybe i'll have better luck.

i don't see why it would account for me not being able to reinstall but apperently i was useing SB16 drivers. they seemed to still mostly work but that may account for some of the issues. unfortunitly i can't seem to find awe32 dos drivers. i have the origional install disks but there for windows and not dos.

CTCM is for PNP creative sound cards. if useing a creative PNP sound card in a dos enviorment or win 3.X you have to install the PNP manager as well as the drivers.

[duralisis]

This thread over at Vogons may be of some help getting the original drivers:

http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=20786&highlight=#152531

The AWE32 installed much the same as my AWE64v and other than your resource config; all the settings look OK. Not many folks ever used IRQ 10 or DMA 7 for an SB.

Also, Creative still has a driver archive:

http://support.creative.com/downloads/welcome.aspx?nLanguageLocale=1033&nOS=15&nDriverType=0#type_0