Who is the King of Famiclones?

[treismac]

I watched Satoshi_Matrix's Famulator video and I started wondering what the "best" famiclones (NES emulators) are out there? In addition to my 3 toasters and one toploader, I have 2 clones (FC Twin and Super Joystick III), but I'd like to hear about what else is out there that is worth a look.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

RetroDuo is still my favorite.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114088

[swlovinist]

FC Twin for me, for the fact that I have had the same system in my game room for more than a couple of years and I have played countless games on it.

[Sneak613]

The only clone I've ever used was the FC Twin. I picked it up used for about $20 about a year ago. Seems to work well with every game I've tried on it..

My only complaints are the length of the controller cords leave something to be desired (they're about 4 feet long). Also, the controllers feel "cheap".... But as an alternative, I'm told that the original SNES controllers can be used with it (I can see the ports on the front of the FC Twin are the same as the SNES).

...Also, the pins for the NES "slot" almost seem too tight. Not a huge deal, but you really have to use two hands when removing a game, in fear that you might actually break the game!!

So in summary, I'd give the FC Twin a thumbs up. I can overlook the complaints. It's a good system that seemingly doesn't have too many compatibility issues, and loads almost everything I put in the thing. Granted, this is just my opinion.... I haven't tried any other clones.

[Parodius Duh!]

Famulator is the best, hands down, for famicom games. Ive had one for two years and have only encountered one pirate cartridge that does not work out of 100s of games.....and unlike satoshi_matrixs system, mine does not have the bars, only some of these consoles do so it could be a win-lose situation, but most problems with the famulator are easily fixed with simple soldering skills. It WILL play Castlevania 3 and Zelda. It will emulate sound correctly with a simple modification.


RetroDuo, Yobo, FC Twin, etc.. all trash, Especially if you want to play pirated carts or games with special sound channels.



Overall the BEST clones you could get are NoAC clones from the 80s and have them modifed from PAL to NTSC region...Dendy, Scorpion 8, Micro Genius, Panavox, Terminator 2, Pegasus, etc...

[Ace]

It all depends on whether you can mod your Famiclone or not. If you can mod your clones, RetroDuo all the way. It's got the most accurate and most compatible NOAC out of all the Famiclones I've come across. Its biggest problem is the HORRIBLE NES audio output, which requires you to solder a 0.1uF ceramic capacitor and a 2.2Kohm resistor to the audio amp. You also can't use NES accessories, so you can't play games requiring the Zapper, Power Pad or any controller like that. This also means Arkanoid is almost unplayable due to the inability to use the Arkanoid controller.

I'm giving second place to the RetroBit Retro Entertainment System as while it has the same accuracy as the RetroDuo and works with original NES accessories, you can't play Castlevania III and both Rad Racer II and After Burner play with graphical errors. Third place goes to the FC Twin as there's no consistency with the NES side. The earliest FC Twins have the crap NOAC with reversed sound channel duties, the first couple of revisions with Yobo branding have the same NOAC as the RES, but again, you're limited to Super NES accessories, so no Zapper games(unless you buy the FC Twin Zapper). The newest FC Twins have some distorted audio, and I think it's because the 2.2Kohm resistor is missing in the audio amp(the RetroDuo and FC Twin have the same audio amp). I'm gonna check once I record my 60 NES games and 28 Famicom games working on my new FC Twin(my old FC Twin from 2007 was better as although the NES audio was a bit quiet, there was no distortion).

If you need Castlevania III compatibility, you can only get it on the RetroDuo, RetroN3 Version 2(which is a TERRIBLE clone - the RetroN3 Version 1 is better in almost every aspect except NES compatibility) and the FC Mobile II. I'm gonna get an FC Mobile II soon, so when I do, I'm gonna put it to the test.


RetroDuo, Yobo, FC Twin, etc.. all trash, Especially if you want to play pirated carts or games with special sound channels.

Not quite. The FC Twin is wired for expansion audio, but at the SOLDER SIDE of the cartridge slot. The RetroDuo doesn't and I've been working with Satoshi_Matrix to get expansion audio working on the RetroDuo as he has cartridges with expansion audio and I don't, but we haven't made any progress whatsoever(anyone have a copy of Akumajou Densetsu for sale?). The Yobo FC Game Console can be made to work with expansion audio. A Japanese blog shows how using pin 19 on the cartridge slot(this is for the first-revision FC Game Console; the second revision has a different motherboard): http://gxemu.blog67.fc2.com/blog-entry-94.html


Overall the BEST clones you could get are NoAC clones from the 80s and have them modifed from PAL to NTSC region...Dendy, Scorpion 8, Micro Genius, Panavox, Terminator 2, Pegasus, etc...

Umm... no. The best clones you can get are FULL-MOTHERBOARD CLONES, convert them to NTSC if necessary and replace the cloned 2A03 and 2C02 with the REAL 2A03 and 2C02.

[Parodius Duh!]

Ace....all those clones are terrible.


Famulator kicks their ass all over town. Less modifications too to get everything working properly, also it doesnt look like a big chunk of plastic shit like the Retroduo. 80s NOAC clones are highly more accurate in hardware build and play all games fine, and most are full motherboard clones so dont know why you think they are not. Micro Genius HQ-0whatever model looks exactly like a famicom on the inside...

Regardless, most pirate carts have a lot of trouble running on retroduo, etc.. where as the famulator has played everything I toss at it except for one very odd cart I have.

[Ace]

80s NOAC clones are highly more accurate in hardware build

I'd need some direct audio clips from those NOACs. I know some full-motherboard clones(by full-motherboard, I mean a clone with DISCRETE COMPONENTS, NOT an NOAC) have the same reversed sound channel duties as most modern glop-top NOACs, but some others don't. Do you have any of those older NOAC-based clones with NOACs like the one shown on this motherboard:

http://dendy.migera.ru/nes/g15.files/dendy_jun_back.jpg

I'd like some audio samples from one of those.

And how can the Famulator kick all those clones' asses when it can't even get the sound and video right? I take that into account when evaluating a clone. Accuracy comes first for me; if a Famiclone has reversed sound channel duties, I'm gonna dock off a lot of points for that. THOSE NOACS SHOULD NOT EXIST, PERIOD!!!

[SuperNewb]

Just curious... for people who have three toasters and top loading model... what the point of having a Famiclone? Just collectors curiosity?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Just curious... for people who have three toasters and top loading model... what the point of having a Famiclone? Just collectors curiosity?

For me it's a few things.

1.) Reliability: which I know is a relative term, but toasters are flaky even on their best days with a new pin-set, and top-loaders while more reliable (US anyway) don't have AV output (unless modified and even then there are issues).

2.) Functionality/Ergonomics: being able to double-up (or in some cases) triple-up on system functionality (NES, SNES, Genesis) in one device has its advantages, and if your catalog of regularly played games/party favorites is limited to a few that are compatible/function well on whatever clone system that you're using, it makes for a lot less hardware to deal with.

3.) Novelty/Nostalgia: sometimes I just like evoking a "Wow, that's neat!" from friends/novice gamers, and letting them know that they can get a reliable (again, relative) AV outputting, with good, tight pins, NES controller compatible $20 Retro-Bit-type NES clone system on eBay or at their local indie game store where they might not have otherwise even considered it well, that might even get them into retro gaming or the world of classic gaming. A gateway drug of sorts.

And, yes, YES, I KNOW, there is ultimately nothing like the REAL THING and I'm not against real hardware, but there's something about a clone system that captivates me ... and hey, at the rate that they make and sell the things, I know I'm not alone.

[Ace]

I buy Famiclones for these reasons:

1) Test them
2) See if I can make them better by modifying certain things
3) They're broken, so I buy them on the cheap and fix them for myself
4) Check out their hardware and study it

Though I did buy an FC3 Plus for my NES, Super NES and Genesis fix a while back as I've currently got a temporary setup in a really small corner and can't fit my Super NES, NES and Genesis all in the same place(and I hate the RetroN3 Version 2 with a passion).

Personally, though, number 4 is really the biggest reason why I buy Famiclones. And then, that leads into number 2.

[Sabz5150]

I'm all about my Mobile II for one reason: its a handheld. Sound is good and done properly, compatible with most games. 4 AA batteries and you're off. Can't beat that :)

[pseudonym]

When my younger brother got interested in the NES again, the RetroDuo seemed to be the best one that I found. I never heard of Famulator, I'll have to look into it.

I'm disappointed that no one has posted "famiclone jesus" picture yet. :)

[treismac]

Just curious... for people who have three toasters and top loading model... what the point of having a Famiclone? Just collectors curiosity?

A valid question. If I were to give you a non-articulate answer, I would say, "just for the hell of it". However, if I was to give you a bit more thought out one, I'd probably write that I am quite fond of the NES and I enjoy having many ways to play its games. In addition using my three toasters (one is in the process of being aesthetically modded), top loader, and my FC Twin, I also play NES games on my Wii and my computer. For whatever reason, I enjoy playing Nintendo games in different ways. I also have a ton of different controllers for the NES to add even more spice to my gaming. If I were to be honest with myself, I would probably say that my collecting and playing of the NES is getting a little stale, so I am looking for superficial ways to revive the novelty. Chances are I won't buy a famiclone unless one really rocks. More than anything else, I suppose that I look into this sorta thing on the internet as a means of anesthetization to take my mind of weightier issues.

I am sure this is too much information, but there it is.


For me it's a few things.

1.) Reliability: which I know is a relative term, but toasters are flaky even on their best days with a new pin-set, and top-loaders while more reliable (US anyway) don't have AV output (unless modified and even then there are issues).

My three toasters work great. With all my games' contacts being immaculately clean, the most I ever have to do is wiggle the carts a bit. Refer to this video to know what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qu2DhvpydI&feature=channel_video_title


3.) Novelty/Nostalgia: sometimes I just like evoking a "Wow, that's neat!" from friends/novice gamers...

Yeah. That too. Nintendos are kinda like decorations or, dare I say, religious icons. The sight of them pleases me. Any variations on the classic design evokes a, "Wow, that's neat!" from me too. :)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

When my younger brother got interested in the NES again, the RetroDuo seemed to be the best one that I found. I never heard of Famulator, I'll have to look into it.

I'm disappointed that no one has posted "famiclone jesus" picture yet. :)

Your wish is my command ... though, I forget what his official name was.

Transvestite Asian Jesus?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/AsianJesusFamiclone.jpg

[thom_m]

Asian Tranvestite Jesus!!

Now back to topic: if you have the means to, try getting a brazilian famiclone from the 80's/90's, such as the "Top Game/Turbo Game" (http://www.nesarchive.net/v1/brasil/topgameccesystem.jpg), the "Phantom System (http://www.zineacesso.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/phanton_system.jpg)" (this one is curious; the maker had plans to produce the Atari 7800 but, when the NES proved more popular, they went for a famiclone...and kept the 7800 design!) or the "Hi-Top Game (http://www.classicgaming.com.br/images/hitopgame/Hi-TopGame_Turbo_Caixa.jpg)". They were all (AFAIK) reverse-engineered, full-motherboard clones that were well built, had good controllers, and sometimes even the advent of a dual cart slot (to play NES and Famicom carts on the same console).

They were all we had here for a good while, and did their jobs pretty darn well! You can take a look at every brazilian famiclone produced here (translated) (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nesarchive.net%2Fv1%2Fbrasil%2F clones.htm); we even had the "Bit-System", which mimicked the toaster design and, IIRC, accepted original NES controllers.

[genesisguy]

The thing that scares me about these clones is the tight grip they possess on the carts. Maybe its nothing to worry about but I plan on living atleast another 30 years and I don't need these things to wear out sooner than they have to.

I have 3 toasters neither of which are flakey.

[Gameguy]

Searching for the King of Famiclones is like asking who the King of the Hobos is, even the top isn't going to be that high up there.

Plus some are just weird.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/448/ps3famiclone.jpg

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Man you guys post threads so quickly even when the thread is directed towards me it's a ways down before I can even voice my myself! lol

Anyway, here's my thoughts.



I watched Satoshi_Matrix's Famulator video and I started wondering what the "best" famiclones (NES emulators) are out there?

This is really a loaded question. The truth of the matter is that there is no answer.

Every Famiclone in existence has flaws, and there is yet to be a completely perfect NOAC.

I suggest you read my NES/Famicom starting guide where I judge the pros and cons of each of the major players in the hardware of the system including many clones. Find it here: http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/nesfamicom-starting-guide/

I have also produced several Famiclone video reviews other than the Famulator.

Generation NEX Review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPA9KwmRCkU

GameAxe Color Review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etMSOQs5zOo

Retro Duo Review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDJBY9PWqTk


The best clone techincally is actually the NEX, which actually outperforms the original hardware in a number of aspects. Of course the NOAC core of the NEX is as flawed as any other, so there's still a long way for Famiclones to go before a truly perfect clone is produced.

Of the ones I've seen the best overall clone is the Retro Duo, although it does require building an audio dampener for NES games. However, the Retro Duo still doesn't play nice with Paperboy, AfterBurner, RadRacer II or the Powerpak.


Famulator is the best, hands down, for famicom games. .....and unlike satoshi_matrixs system, mine does not have the bars, only some of these consoles do so it could be a win-lose situation, but most problems with the famulator are easily fixed with simple soldering skills. It WILL play Castlevania 3 and Zelda. It will emulate sound correctly with a simple modification.

Damn. Is there any way to know When buying them? the bar issue is inharent flaw of the NOAC, and can't be fixed externally. The same should also apply to the audio, as the NOAC itself is what produces the reverse duty cycles. What modification are you talking about for it to emulate sound correctly?




The best clones you can get are FULL-MOTHERBOARD CLONES, convert them to NTSC if necessary and replace the cloned 2A03 and 2C02 with the REAL 2A03 and 2C02.

Que to the philosophical question: When is a Famiclone no longer a Famiclone...?

I'd say when its CPU and possibly PPU have been replaced with authentic ones. I've done this to one of my clones, and yes, it does certainly enhance the hardware, but once you go to such extraordinary measures I think that it can no longer be considered a Famiclone.

[Ace]

However, the Retro Duo still doesn't play nice with Paperboy, AfterBurner, RadRacer II or the Powerpak.

Not so fast, dude. After Burner and Rad Racer II DO work on the RetroDuo. See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLVhMMUNwAQ

They obviously sound worse than on an NES(more so with Rad Racer II when music's enabled), but at least they work. The RetroDuo, so far, is the ONLY modern Famiclone I've come across which works with After Burner without graphical errors. Other clones either have no backgrounds(original FC Mobile, RetroBit RES, FC Twin), boot the game up to graphical garbage(Gen-X, GN Twin, FC3 Plus, RetroN3 Version 1) or play with severely scrambled background graphics(RetroN3 Version 2). Rad Racer II only works right on the RetroDuo and RetroN3 Version 2. On other clones, it either prevents the system from even turning on(FC3 Plus, GN Twin, Gen-X, RetroN3 Version 1 and I believe even the Generation NEX) or plays with corrupted background graphics(FC Twin, original FC Mobile).

Now, let me ask something: if you get an NOAC which outputs screwed up DPCM like on the RetroDuo, RES and FC Twin, would there be some way to fix this or is something screwed up within the NOAC? That's one of the major flaws with NOACs which don't reverse the sound channel duties; DPCM sounds wrong. Some of the square waves don't even sound right as demonstrated by Rad Racer II in the video I linked.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

It's all internal to the NOAC, which is under a glob of black epoxy. There's no possible way to resolve any such DPCM issues.

[TKO]

most pirate carts have a lot of trouble running on retroduo, etc.. where as the famulator has played everything I toss at it except for one very odd cart I have.




What are you talking about???

I live in South East Asia where they produce pirate carts and I have more than 100 pirate carts , every one of them works with Retro Duo.

I order Chinese pirate cart and they all work as well. All of my legit Famicom (around 200 carts) and NES carts (28 carts) also works.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

What are you talking about???

I live in South East Asia where they produce pirate carts and I have more than 100 pirate carts , every one of them works with Retro Duo.

I order Chinese pirate cart and they all work as well. All of my legit Famicom (around 200 carts) and NES carts (28 carts) also works.

My Retro Duo didn't have any issues with bootleg/pirate carts either.

*shrug*

[MarioMania]

The Retro Duo is #1 in my book's

No Trouble here

[k8track]

*I* am the king of Famiclones. Bow down and pay homage to my terrible power.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

but will you play MMC5, the powerpak and export expansion audio?!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

*I* am the king of Famiclones. Bow down and pay homage to my terrible power.

Coronation k8track? This is bad comedy.

[Parodius Duh!]

Damn. Is there any way to know When buying them? the bar issue is inharent flaw of the NOAC, and can't be fixed externally. The same should also apply to the audio, as the NOAC itself is what produces the reverse duty cycles. What modification are you talking about for it to emulate sound correctly?


Um, Not that I know of. Im working on a tutorial that Ill have posted up on famicom world within a week.

[Parodius Duh!]

What are you talking about???

I live in South East Asia where they produce pirate carts and I have more than 100 pirate carts , every one of them works with Retro Duo.

I order Chinese pirate cart and they all work as well. All of my legit Famicom (around 200 carts) and NES carts (28 carts) also works.


Good for you, When I had retro duo it would not play a bunch of my older whirlwind manu carts and a few Taiwanese FDS to cartridge ports.




*I* am the king of Famiclones. Bow down and pay homage to my terrible power.


But Women can not be King! Unless youre a guy named Kate. :D

[k8track]

Coronation k8track? This is bad comedy.
Away with you, lest my sceptre find your backside!

[k8track]

But Women can not be King! Unless youre a guy named Kate. :D
Ain't no Kate here, pal. It's a silent k, as in "knife".

[treismac]

Does anyone know if there are any Famiclones with a built in emulator (not just pre-installed games)? I suppose not since this would certainly have been worth mentioning.

Edit to preempt predictable response: Yes, I'm aware that you could buy a Power Pak and use it with any compatible Famiclone.

[Shinobi]

In my opinion all Famiclones are not worth the money. Its indeed nice to have a SFC+Famicom Combo which can play Import and SNES Games, but the troubles of lots games are not compatible, flickering etc makes it a waste of money. The New Famicom looks better and plays everything, same for the Super Famicom jr - nothing beats the real machines.