Anyone know why Sega dumped DB-9 controller ports when going from Genesis to Saturn?

[BlastProcessing402]

Not that I think it was necessarily a bad change or anything, I just wonder if there was some story behind it.

Was it technologically inferior somehow, did they just not want people using old Genesis 6 button pads instead of buying new Saturn ones, just a random change, or is it just some mystery we'll never know?

Just seems slightly odd how they used the same connectors for two generations, then suddenly changed, so there must be some reason.

I realize, Sony used the same connectors for two generations as well before changing, but there you have the fairly obvious switch to wireless and USB to explain it.

Of course, Sega did the same thing with the A/V port. SMS and Gen model 1 used the same one, and Saturn used a different one, but they'd already changed that once already with the Gen model 2 and 32x anyway, so it doesn't seem nearly as odd that they changed it again. Inconvenient, yes, but not odd. :)

[Shulamana]

Does the Saturn controller port support analog input? I could see this being a reason to change it.

[crazyjackcsa]

DB-9 doesn't? The Saturn does have analog control yes. Not when it was built, but late in the generation.

[T2KFreeker]

Could also have to do with the lawsuit they lost from Atari who held the pattents for the DB9's and Sega used it without permission . . .

[Shulamana]

Could also have to do with the lawsuit they lost from Atari who held the pattents for the DB9's and Sega used it without permission . . .

Really? I thought D-sub connectors were invented in the 1950s by ITT Cannon, which is a company that makes electrical connectors (and is still independent).

[crazyjackcsa]

Could also have to do with the lawsuit they lost from Atari who held the pattents for the DB9's and Sega used it without permission . . .

I wasn't aware of that, and cant find anything about it online. DB9 was used on the Atari, the C64 and the Genesis interchangeably and I always thought the NES just used a modified connector.

[Amon_Re]

I wasn't aware of that, and cant find anything about it online. DB9 was used on the Atari, the C64 and the Genesis interchangeably and I always thought the NES just used a modified connector.

The Amiga also used these ports (and was compatible with the Atari/C64/Sega's)

[theclaw]

I believe 3DO and FM Towns Marty used DB9 also. If very different pinout. Some Famiclones do too.

[T2KFreeker]

Wrong Patent. Sorry about that.

[A Black Falcon]

I would assume they needed more buttons than the DB9 could support, plus analog as well as digital controls too...

[Gameguy]

The Vectrex uses the same type of plug and it has analog controls. I think they just changed it to make it unique to that system so you'd have to buy replacement parts directly from them. Systems used to pretty much all use the same type of interchangeable parts, you can use the same RF switch between an NES, SNES, Turbografx, SMS, Genesis Model 1, etc. They stuck with the same controller input with the Genesis because they planned to make it backwards compatible with SMS games, they needed the controllers to be compatible too. With the Model 2 Genesis they changed the video output so you'd need a unique type of cable, the Saturn ones are also different from the Genesis ones so I think they planned to use different connections for each of their consoles by that point, starting with the Model 2 Genesis.

[Emuaust]

I would assume they needed more buttons than the DB9 could support, plus analog as well as digital controls too...

This is a possibility either that or maybe they thought the use of a new plug might imrove the sales of first party controllers?

[Wraith Storm]

DB-9 doesn't? The Saturn does have analog control yes. Not when it was built, but late in the generation.

The Saturn had analog support from day one. Both the Mission Stick and the Arcade Racer steering wheel are fully analog. This is why, when the 3d pad that you are referring to was released, a lot of the games already on the market supported the controller. It was backwards compatible with a lot of games that already had analog support.

Reason #17 why the Saturn is freakin' cool!

[crazyjackcsa]

The Saturn had analog support from day one. Both the Mission Stick and the Arcade Racer steering wheel are fully analog. This is why, when the 3d pad that you are referring to was released, a lot of the games already on the market supported the controller. It was backwards compatible with a lot of games that already had analog support.

Reason #17 why the Saturn is freakin' cool!

Good catch, totally slipped my mind.

[j_factor]

DB-9 supports analog. The Mega Drive had an analog pad in Japan. And an analog steering wheel was prototyped.

[LimpBizkit]

db-9? :confused:

[Amon_Re]

db-9? :confused:

If you're too young to remember DB9 then you should get off my lawn!
http://www.cmsco.gr/home/images/db9.gif

[shinobimusashi]

An analog steering wheel(with gas/break pedals) for Outrun, and Super Monaco GP would have been sweet.

[BlastProcessing402]

I would assume they needed more buttons than the DB9 could support, plus analog as well as digital controls too...

A Saturn pad's only got one more button than a 6 button Genesis pad (added L&R but removed MODE) so I have to think that wasn't it.

Thanks for all the guesses and speculation everyone, some interesting theories, but looks like nothing concrete. About what I expected, but I had to ask, :)

[ccovell]

db-9? :confused:

We feel your confusion. It actually is called DE-9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature

Two other reasons Sega might have changed: DE-9 connectors might have looked too small on the Saturn's front plate, and far, far too retro to boot. DE-9 on systems does make it look like a thing of the 80s.

Also, DE-9 connectors take relatively more insertion force compared to more modern consoles. Plug a controller into your Genesis or Master System and you usually have to hold the system from behind, right? Now try the same thing with a SNES or Saturn; they slide right in and can be done one-handed (by me, anyway.)

[theclaw]

Didn't the obscure Super A'Can use this connector too?

[Icarus Moonsight]

My universal sticks that work on Saturn have DB-15 on the back for the lead... Not sure if it uses 10 pins or more, but it's possibly the case.

[A Black Falcon]

A Saturn pad's only got one more button than a 6 button Genesis pad (added L&R but removed MODE) so I have to think that wasn't it.

Thanks for all the guesses and speculation everyone, some interesting theories, but looks like nothing concrete. About what I expected, but I had to ask, :)
One more button? No, that same connection can support a controller with two analog joysticks, that same number of buttons, and an analog throttle wheel as well (the Mission Stick, with a second stick plugged into the "Sub Control" port underneath the main stick unit; note that the Main and Sub Control ports are indeed DE9. :) ), an analog gamepad with both an analog stick and a d-pad, analog triggers, and the same face button layout; or an analog racing wheel with two fewer buttons (the wheel doesn't have L or R buttons, and those paddle things, though digital, are actually Up and Down)... and remember that two of those three controllers were out day one, as has been said already.

Do you really think DB-9 could have handled all of those options?


Also, remember that even if squeezing all of those onto a DE9 connection was somehow possible -- something I do very much doubt -- using the same controller port type would make people think that they could use their Genesis controllers on the Saturn, while because of the missing L button, and surely very different button connections... I know that the SMS and Genesis share port types and could have that same problem, but that was done for BC reasons I imagine. Without BC, there'd be every reason to not repeat that -- one more reminder that no, it can't play your last gen games. But I'd guess the main reason is because of DE9's limited connections.

[VertigoProcess]

3do used it too...

[FABombjoy]

But I'd guess the main reason is because of DE9's limited connections.
The Saturn's joystick connector has 9 pins as well. The number of pins a connector has is mostly irrelevant to it's capability of transmitting data, either digital or analog.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexer

I'm guessing that the reasons mentioned by ccovell are on the mark. I would also add that they probably wanted to change signaling protocols and didn't want 10 million calls to 800-USA-SEGA asking why their Genesis controller didn't work in the Saturn.

[dendawg]

I would also add that they probably wanted to change signaling protocols and didn't want 10 million calls to 800-USA-SEGA asking why their Genesis controller didn't work in the Saturn.

Yea, probably that. I'm sure they got bombarded with enough questions as to why their Genesis/Sega CD games didn't work. @_@

[xelement5x]

...they slide right in and can be done one-handed (by me, anyway.)

There's a joke in there, I just know it....


I agree with most folks when they say it's probably a usability issue, people would have been trying to use Genesis pads with Saturn games and it probably wouldn't have turned out well.

With the PS1 Analog/DualShock it wasn't really an issue since the controllers were near identical, but imagine trying to play N64 games with an SNES pad. Some would probably be playable, but there would be plenty that just wouldn't work outright.

[BlastProcessing402]

We feel your confusion. It actually is called DE-9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature

Two other reasons Sega might have changed: DE-9 connectors might have looked too small on the Saturn's front plate, and far, far too retro to boot. DE-9 on systems does make it look like a thing of the 80s.

Also, DE-9 connectors take relatively more insertion force compared to more modern consoles. Plug a controller into your Genesis or Master System and you usually have to hold the system from behind, right? Now try the same thing with a SNES or Saturn; they slide right in and can be done one-handed (by me, anyway.)

DE-9 is the technically correct term, but most people call it DB-9, so I just went with the term I usually see people use.