Xbox Loop ? A new Xbox console a year from now?

[WCP]

http://msnerd.tumblr.com/


"The Xbox is another story altogether. With a heady mix of rumors, tips and speculation, I am now stating that Xbox codename “loop” (the erstwhile XboxTV) will indeed debut a modified Win9 core. It will use a Zune HD-like hardware platform—a “main” processor with multiple dedicated assistive cores for graphics, AI, physics, sound, networking, encryption and sensors. It will be custom designed by Microsoft and two partners (update: AMD, Imagination Technologies & Samsung are three names I’ve heard so far) based on the ARM architecture. It will be cheaper than the 360, further enabling Kinect adoption. And it will be far smaller than the 360. "



I'm not sure if this rumor has been talked about here yet, but I'm wondering what people think about it. I'm not really a technical guy, but I keep hearing that this new Xbox will feature an ARM-based heterogeneous system-on-chip (SoC) with multiple dedicated assistive cores. Supposedly, there is no way that an "ARM" based processor could be super powerful, so it seems that Microsoft isn't very interested with making a technological wonder. It does say that Microsoft is very interested in having a system that isn't going to overheat, but at the sacrifice of raw power.

I wonder if games will really look all that much different?



Also, the rumor is that this new Xbox will be announced THIS January at CES. Not much of the console will be shown, not even an image of the console. Most likely just the name, and maybe some talk about it's features. Then, at GDC in March, the console will be officially unveiled, with all of the detailed specs, and perhaps even a demo of what it can do. Then at e3 next June, Microsoft would pretty much unveil everything Xbox Loop (until we have a better idea it's real name), and announce it's November 17th, 2012 launch.

It all sounds crazy, and way too fast imo, the Xbox 360 is still selling very well, it can sell well at $199, it's not like they are selling for only $99, and hardly anybody has any big games coming for it. I honestly can't see this rumor being totally true. I guess we'll find out at CES. If there isn't the slightest peep at CES about the next Xbox, then I would guess it's a 2013 product.

[kevifray]

with so many titles still scheduled for release in the early/mid 2012, it makes me think this is pretty unlikely.

[Leo_A]

I don't believe we'll hear about the Xbox 720 until E3 2013 with a Fall 2013 release in mind. Xbox 360 is at its peak at the moment and isn't in immediate need of replacement. It easily has a good two years left in it I think before the time comes for a successor.

[j_factor]

The Xbox 360 is getting quite long in the tooth, and the Kinect doesn't seem to be doing what they want it to. So I wouldn't be surprised if they're finally starting to ready up a new console. But the particulars of this rumor -- an ARM-based system, cheaper than the 360 -- just don't sound right. Unless it's actually a portable. "Far smaller" is perhaps a subtle hint.

[kedawa]

In another year most ARM smartphones will be more powerful than the 360, so I don't think it's out of the question for some type of consolized smartphone tech to show up sooner or later.
Strip away the screen, camera, radio, and battery from a good phone, and what you have left is a very energy efficient media computer.

[Nophix]

In another year most ARM smartphones will be more powerful than the 360, so I don't think it's out of the question for some type of consolized smartphone tech to show up sooner or later.
Strip away the screen, camera, radio, and battery from a good phone, and what you have left is a very energy efficient media computer.

Most smartphones now are more powerful than anything ARM has. I've got 2 of them that can. Both are dual core, one TI OMAP4 and one Tegra2. Both game quite well.

If Xbox goes ARM, I'm out.

This almost makes me wonder if they are moving from game console to set top box media center. OK if they keep the horsepower, not OK if they neuter it.

[Greg2600]

That's what it sounded like to me. An all in one media center device, which would still be running the 360 system, but other things as well.

[Leo_A]

The Xbox 360 is getting quite long in the tooth, and the Kinect doesn't seem to be doing what they want it to.

It's also having its best holiday season yet. Market performance is the determining factor in when they release a replacement and the 360 is at its peak (or perhaps hasn't even reached it yet).

It doesn't need replacement in the immediate future so I'm going to stick with the commonly held thought that we're going to find out about the Xbox 720 and see it released in 2013. That gives the 360 another Christmas season to itself, won't overshadow Halo 4, and gives the 360 close to two more years as Microsoft's premier game console. By late 2013, I imagine the 360 will be declining and be in need of replacement and then it can settle down to several more years as Microsoft's budget offerring.

But it's still growing as 2011 comes to a close. They're not going to deflate things in a few weeks on a growing system that is making them a lot of money.

[Robocop2]

That's what it sounded like to me. An all in one media center device, which would still be running the 360 system, but other things as well.

I've often wondered if they would do something like that eventually. From some of the talk MS has had in the past it seems like they want to move in the all-in-one media center direction at least with the next console.

[WCP]

I think November 2013 is pretty much a guarantee, but I see 2012 as highly unlikely. The only way Xbox launches that soon, is if they feel like they need a full year ahead of Sony again, although Sony is more like November 2014, so I'm not sure why they are rushing this out (assuming this rumor is true)


The good news is that CES is right around the corner, so we'll know a bit more after the Microsoft keynote. If there is no mention of this, then we know that 2012 is pretty much out of the question, although it wouldn't totally shock me if an announcement came at GDC instead of CES.

[j_factor]

It's also having its best holiday season yet. Market performance is the determining factor in when they release a replacement

You could have made this exact statement in late 2004 regarding the Xbox to argue that its replacement wasn't around the corner. I believe the Playstation's best holiday season was also the year before its successor launched (1999).

[Leo_A]

You could have made this exact statement in late 2004 regarding the Xbox to argue that its replacement wasn't around the corner.

360 wasn't unveiled days after Christmas.

Furthermore, the Xbox was also a huge money loser which spurred on Microsoft to drop it as soon as possible after it finished its job of establishing a beachhead in this marketplace for them (As I recall, the quarter when Halo 2 released was the only time the Xbox 1 program showed a profit and the console itself always sold at a significant loss). The Xbox 360 has been a financial success for several years now and is making them a lot of money including with every console sale. So there isn't that incentive there like there was 6 years ago to move on.
.
Just the same, I think you raised a valid point. But I'm still sticking with my expectation of 2013. It seems like the safe bet.

[Gamevet]

This almost sounds like a television that can play downloadable 360 games without the need for a console. Samsung is one of the leading television manufacturers, so it makes sense that their name is being tossed in there.

[NayusDante]

So it's a system-on-a-chip from the beginning. Nice, maybe the hardware failure rate will be lower.

If they go with AMD again, I wonder if they'll consider the APUs. Those things are awesome. A little underpowered, but I think they'd be great chips for consoles. They run cool too...

[Rickstilwell1]

Who wants to bet that the next Xbox will not be called the "Xbox 720" like everybody calls it? They've only used the rotation scheme "360" on one console so far so there is nothing indicating a naming trend going on.

[Leo_A]

I think everyone just uses it as a placeholder for clarity and convenience and realizes that's all it is. Sounds better than writing out "the Xbox 360's successor", "the next generation Xbox", or referencing it as the "Xbox 3" (and possibly confusing someone that thinks you left the last two digits off 360) everytime you discuss it.

It's in such widespread use now though that I think it will be considered for the official name, although I doubt it would ever be selected.

[NayusDante]

360 implies one rotation. Loop implies pretty much the same thing. Barrel Roll, on the other hand...

[Trumpman]

Halo 4's already been announced for 360, and it's coming next holiday season. Can't see them announcing a new Xbox prior to the newest installment of Microsoft's signature series. It would really take the thunder out of Halo 4's release. Also, Microsoft sold almost a million Xboxes last month. They're going to milk this generation for another year at least.

[Gameguy]

360 implies one rotation.
I thought it represented the system's internal operating temperature, 360 degrees.

[kupomogli]

The Wii sucks. Oh. This is a Microsoft thread you say? Carry on then, good people.

I just hope that the next Xbox has support for original Xbox and 360 games. Because if I don't pick a 360s up I'll still have a single console to play 360 and Xbox. One console to play them all.

[Bojay1997]

Halo 4's already been announced for 360, and it's coming next holiday season. Can't see them announcing a new Xbox prior to the newest installment of Microsoft's signature series. It would really take the thunder out of Halo 4's release. Also, Microsoft sold almost a million Xboxes last month. They're going to milk this generation for another year at least.

While they are moving hardware in large quantities, the margins are minimal at best given all the discounting they are supporting at various retailers. Even with massive economies of scale and advancements in manufacturing over the last six years, selling a $149-$199 Xbox 360 results in literally a few dollars of profit or less once you factor everything in. While I agree that 2012 seems ambitious, it's not that tough to move Halo 4 to a new platform if the developer has a year or so of lead time until release and virtually unlimited support from Microsoft's technical team just like Bungie did with the original Halo.

[WCP]

Halo 4's already been announced for 360, and it's coming next holiday season. Can't see them announcing a new Xbox prior to the newest installment of Microsoft's signature series. It would really take the thunder out of Halo 4's release. Also, Microsoft sold almost a million Xboxes last month. They're going to milk this generation for another year at least.


If there is an Xbox coming next November, then I think you can take it to the bank that Microsoft will pull a "Twillight Princess" with Halo 4. The game would appear on both systems, with a watered down version on 360. The Xbox Loop version will probably run in 1080p at 60fps, with tons of post processing effects and higher quality textures.


Still, I just think a new console next year doesn't make a ton of sense. The biggest clue as to why a console next year seems pretty crazy, is the fact that you can't go to the store right now and buy a "core" 360 for $149.99. You still have to pay $199 to get a 360. Sure, you might get a gift card or something, but you can't just walk into a store and buy one for $149.99. You would think that the 360 would be selling for at least a year at $149.99 before they introduced a new system. November 2013 makes dramatically more sense.

If Microsoft did release a console next year, then it would be because they are making a preemptive strike to try keep Sony, Nintendo and even Apple and Google at bay. The theory being that first to market (or nearly first, considering Wii U), is a key reason the 360 dominated North America, and they would be too afraid of Sony or Apple or Google catching them off guard. That is the only logical reason to introduce a new console with the 360 still selling so well. November 2013 makes perfect sense, but a year before that seems like a rush job to me. It seems like a defensive move to try to protect your turf.

[Rickstilwell1]

If there is an Xbox coming next November, then I think you can take it to the bank that Microsoft will pull a "Twillight Princess" with Halo 4. The game would appear on both systems, with a watered down version on 360. The Xbox Loop version will probably run in 1080p at 60fps, with tons of post processing effects and higher quality textures.


Still, I just think a new console next year doesn't make a ton of sense. The biggest clue as to why a console next year seems pretty crazy, is the fact that you can't go to the store right now and buy a "core" 360 for $149.99. You still have to pay $199 to get a 360. Sure, you might get a gift card or something, but you can't just walk into a store and buy one for $149.99. You would think that the 360 would be selling for at least a year at $149.99 before they introduced a new system. November 2013 makes dramatically more sense.

If Microsoft did release a console next year, then it would be because they are making a preemptive strike to try keep Sony, Nintendo and even Apple and Google at bay. The theory being that first to market (or nearly first, considering Wii U), is a key reason the 360 dominated North America, and they would be too afraid of Sony or Apple or Google catching them off guard. That is the only logical reason to introduce a new console with the 360 still selling so well. November 2013 makes perfect sense, but a year before that seems like a rush job to me. It seems like a defensive move to try to protect your turf.

It doesn't always work though. TurboGrafx-16, Jaguar, Saturn, Dreamcast all were attempts to start a new generation of gaming and their competetors either took the lead or proved that we weren't ready for the next generation yet (in the case of the Jaguar).

[kupomogli]

then I think you can take it to the bank that Microsoft will pull a "Twillight Princess"

Nintendo is the only console developer I know of that's delayed a game year just to fuck their fanbase over. What's that Nintendo? The release date is being pushed back from late 2005 into early 2006 and you say it won't be a Wii title? What? It's getting delayed again to November 2006 and a launch title for the Wii and a month later being released on the Gamecube?

[Bojay1997]

Nintendo is the only console developer I know of that's delayed a game year just to fuck their fanbase over. What's that Nintendo? The release date is being pushed back from late 2005 into early 2006 and you say it won't be a Wii title? What? It's getting delayed again to November 2006 and a launch title for the Wii and a month later being released on the Gamecube?

I don't agree with this and I know for a fact that developers on both the Xbox and PS2 delayed some of their later titles so they could be released early in the release cycle of the 360 and PS3. Perhaps Nintendo should do a better job of keeping games a secret to avoid disappointment, but they are hardly the only publisher to incentivize third parties to delay and release titles for newer hardware. Frankly, I think Nintendo should get some credit for not forcing people to buy the newest hardware to play the last Gamecube Zelda game.

[Rob2600]

Nintendo is the only console developer I know of that's delayed a game year just to fuck their fanbase over. What's that Nintendo? The release date is being pushed back from late 2005 into early 2006 and you say it won't be a Wii title? What? It's getting delayed again to November 2006 and a launch title for the Wii and a month later being released on the Gamecube?

I don't agree with this and I know for a fact that developers on both the Xbox and PS2 delayed some of their later titles so they could be released early in the release cycle of the 360 and PS3. Perhaps Nintendo should do a better job of keeping games a secret to avoid disappointment, but they are hardly the only publisher to incentivize third parties to delay and release titles for newer hardware. Frankly, I think Nintendo should get some credit for not forcing people to buy the newest hardware to play the last Gamecube Zelda game.

Bojay1997, you're forgetting one very important thing:


It tickles me that you people still talk to kupomogli like he were a rational human being. Kupomogli is an object, incapable of adaptation and reason.

[Gamevet]

I don't agree with this and I know for a fact that developers on both the Xbox and PS2 delayed some of their later titles so they could be released early in the release cycle of the 360 and PS3. Perhaps Nintendo should do a better job of keeping games a secret to avoid disappointment, but they are hardly the only publisher to incentivize third parties to delay and release titles for newer hardware. Frankly, I think Nintendo should get some credit for not forcing people to buy the newest hardware to play the last Gamecube Zelda game.

A 3rd party developer delaying a game to be released on new hardware is quite different from a 1st party delaying software. Nintendo knew about Wii U and Wii long before anyone else.

[Bojay1997]

A 3rd party developer delaying a game to be released on new hardware is quite different from a 1st party delaying software. Nintendo knew about Wii U and Wii long before anyone else.

How? Both first and third parties have an obligation to maximize their profit. If that means holding a game a year to release it in a better version on the newest hardware which will in turn result in higher sales, that certainly sounds like a logical decision from both the business and consumer perspective. It also doesn't change the fact that they still released the game on Gamecube when there was very little financial incentive to do so. Attacking Nintendo for how they released the last GC/Wii Zelda game is ridiculous. Should I be upset at Microsoft that Halo was originally supposed to be a Mac game and they delayed it for years to have it redeveloped for the Xbox? Of course not.

[j_factor]

A 3rd party developer delaying a game to be released on new hardware is quite different from a 1st party delaying software. Nintendo knew about Wii U and Wii long before anyone else.

No different from Microsoft delaying Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo to make them Xbox 360 games. At least with Twilight Princess the GC version still came out, unlike the original Xbox versions of those games (which certainly would have been feasible).

[duffmanth]

Whatever the next Xbox console ends up being, I think it'll be released next year? By then the 360 will be 7 years old and there doesn't seem to be many more AAA games in the pipeline?

[XYXZYZ]

ALL I ASK is that the processor doesn't melt the third time you turn it on.

[Hep038]

Bojay1997, you're forgetting one very important thing:


The fact that you were the person to point this out is pretty funny. If you are not policing the Nintendo threads to make sure nothing bad is said about the company you are trolling every Sony and Microsoft thread you can. Your presence here proves it.

Pot , kettle, you know the story....

[IcBlUsCrN]

Most smartphones now are more powerful than anything ARM has. I've got 2 of them that can. Both are dual core, one TI OMAP4 and one Tegra2. Both game quite well.

If Xbox goes ARM, I'm out.

This almost makes me wonder if they are moving from game console to set top box media center. OK if they keep the horsepower, not OK if they neuter it.


?? omap, tiegra , snapdragon are all ARM. omap even uses cortex.
i think snapdragon has the best "gpu" but maybe not the best mobile cpu speed wise

who makes the snapdragon = qualcomm
who has windows phone 7 exclusive = qualcomm with snapdragon
who was part of a gaming console recently = qualcomm with zeebo


http://www.anandtech.com/show/4570/qualcomms-march-into-the-gaming-market


none of those mobile cpus are up to true gaming task though. you can get a netbook or a tablet with those processoers most stuggle.

[Greg2600]

Whatever the next Xbox console ends up being, I think it'll be released next year? By then the 360 will be 7 years old and there doesn't seem to be many more AAA games in the pipeline?
Gaming hardware I think is almost at or past what software developers are willing to create. Think about it. The more realistic you make graphics, the larger the level maps, the more detail put into texture art, motion capture, etc. That requires more work = time = money from the developer. I think they're going to be more interested in continuing to share game engines, and release incremental/downloadable updates to existing popular games. I'd expect perhaps more games geared towards devices like Kinect, but again, that means programming is needed, and the developers don't want to spend the money.

The point I made earlier in this thread was that there is an arms race to be the tech giant which rules or gets primo market share in the all encompassing video/audio/gaming/internet product field. Television networks, cable/sat providers, entertainment sectors, are all rushing to get their services to be accessible on every popular device, whether phone, tablet, PC or game console. That's what Microsoft is doing with the XBox, because their phone and tablet business has gone nowhere. So again I'm saying MS are looking to make the Xbox even more of a media device, without sacrificing gaming. There's little need to create an all new console though. Maybe beef this one up only.

[kedawa]

If we ever want to get beyond the painted origami graphics and hokey AI and physics of modern games, we're going to need more powerful hardware.
There is something to be said for keeping development costs down, but there are a lot of advantages to be gained from having more powerful hardware that don't require great amounts extra work from the developer.
Even games that are coming out now would benefit from a faster machine, since they don't all run at a consistent 60fps at 1080p.

[The 1 2 P]

Not going to happen. The 360 may be 6 years old now but it's actually selling like a new release console. It's already selling better than it has last year, it's been the best selling console in the US for all of 2011 and has only fallen to second place once out of the last 17 or 18 months.

Add to that the fact that they are still adding more partners and content(gaming, videos and Xbox Tv) to the 360, they are still outselling both Nintendo and Sony despite having the most expensive core system($50 more expensive than the PS3) and that most systems sell the most once they hit the mainstream price of $199 or below(I know the 4 gb already sells at that price but the 250 gb still sells at a premium) and you have a system that in year 7, 8 and 9 could continue to break records.

Will it ever sell as much overall as the PS2 or Wii in the US? Probably not but this 6 year old system is selling well enough that Microsoft has no need to ready a new system anytime soon. Of course they(and Sony) are already working on one but it won't be arriving any earlier than 2013. Times have changed and people don't want to be spending money on a new system every 5 years anyway. The 360 has atleast another two years of awesome gaming ahead.

[Trumpman]

It's a shame, really. I'm kind of ready for a new console. Especially when you see games like BF3 and Skyrim on the PC, the 360 and PS3 really show their age. I'm seriously thinking of building a new gaming PC to use with my TV.

[Melf]

I don't care if it comes out tomorrow, next year, or the year after. There's no way I'm buying a Microsoft console at launch. I've been fucked over twice by them now, so if I even decide to buy the machine, I'll first make sure they didn't let retarded monkeys design it. There are more than enough games from this gen to tide me over until MS and the others get their shit together with the newer consoles.

As it is, I get less and less excited about each generation of hardware. I like the connectivity and online play and all, but it's moving away from my gaming tastes. Shit like Kinect, Move, and waggling can all DIAF, and a lot of the games released today just don't really appeal to me anymore. Add the fact that the hardware practically melts down after 2 months and it's just not attractive to me anymore.