Getting into the Sega Genesis - Advice Needed [Archive]

marlowe221

12-04-2011, 01:53 AM

Hi all,

I've decided to hunt down a Sega Genesis and experience a part of the 16-bit era (my favorite) that I missed the first go-round. I made a list of games I am interested in checking out (I am more of a player than a collector per se) but I have a question about the system itself.

I am a little confused about the various versions of the console. I know there are/were 3 different versions of the Genesis but I'm not sure which one is right for me.

I know I want composite or s-video output. Can I do RGB to component somehow with a Genesis? I am going to be using HD televisions for the most part, both at home and on the road for work.

I remember reading somewhere around here that certain versions of the Genesis have something strange going on with the audio. What's the deal with that?

I don't know if I want/need Sega CD or 32X compatibility or not... Not sure what the killer apps were for those add-ons. Feel free to convince me I need either or both! :)

Thanks!

Sunnyvale

12-04-2011, 01:59 AM

The three versions aren't a big deal unless you want the CD/32X, then I think (feel free to call me stupid, people!) the model 3 won't work with them. Least that's what I heard, still don't have a model 3.

None of them will use component cables without a mod. I have an S video adapter, but it probably just converts the AV signal, so it's probably not better quality.

If you want nostalgia and didn't own the CD or 32x, then why bother? If you want to experience the full mess of the Genesis titles, you'll want both.

And I dunno what's up with any audio issues, but maybe others will...

Richter Belmount

12-04-2011, 02:20 AM

buy a colecovision

Satoshi_Matrix

12-04-2011, 02:55 AM

I know I want composite or s-video output. Can I do RGB to component somehow with a Genesis? I am going to be using HD televisions for the most part, both at home and on the road for work.

All models of the Sega Genesis can output RGB via SCART, but the original giant one with the headphone jack has its own video cable, so make sure you buy the correct SCART cable. None of them can do component video. You're a good decade too early for that. None of the systems natively produce S-Video, and all produce a dirty signal for composite. If you want S-video, you'll have to mod your system. Model 1 Genesis systems are the easiest to mod because of how large the casing on them is. If that sounds too daunting, most clone Genesis systems these days come with S-video output.

I remember reading somewhere around here that certain versions of the Genesis have something strange going on with the audio. What's the deal with that?

Different Genesis revisions have slightly different audio. Unless your an audio nazi, you won't care/notice the difference. It's the kind of difference people say they notice with emulation of Genesis games on good compilations like Sonic Mega Collection. Unless you OMG MUST HAVE THE BEST AUDIO EVER1111111111 it doesn't matter too much. The differences on the offical systems aren't as pronounced as the differences on clones.

I don't know if I want/need Sega CD or 32X compatibility or not... Not sure what the killer apps were for those add-ons. Feel free to convince me I need either or both! :)

Sega CD is nice to have if you like RPGs. The original versions of Lunar The Silver Star and Lunar Eternal Blue are on the Sega CD, and they're extremely fantastic. It's GameArts at their best.

Gameguy

12-04-2011, 04:06 AM

Sunnyvale

12-04-2011, 04:47 AM

The Model 3 isn't compatible with all games so you probably won't want that, it's harder to find than the first 2 models anyway. There are also a couple of games that are only compatible with the very first version of the Model 1 but I don't think most people care about them much. Either the first or second model will be fine, if you're really picky with sound or video quality it should be mentioned that there were several different revisions of the Model 1 and Model 2 and some have better video and audio quality than others. It would be a pain to track down specific versions. For the most part I don't really notice much of a difference between them so just buy whatever you can find.

Sound advice here. I might add: A model 2 costs less to ship if the seller isn't a shit. Also, the 3 or 4 games you can only play on a first run model 1 are playable with a Game Genie, and finding a early Genesis can be tricky. Here's more to get you started.

http://www.gametrog.com/GAMETROG/SEGA_Genesis_1_2_3_Information_Specs.html

Rickstilwell1

12-04-2011, 04:59 AM

If you import a euro RGB SCART cable there is a converter box you can buy for $50 or so that converts S-Video and SCART cable connectors to HDMI. You could do that for Genesis 1 and run the audio out of its headphone jack for true pure stereo sound. It looks so shiny on my TV and the converter box also came in handy for Neo Geo CD and 3DO which have S-Video jacks built in.

Parodius Duh!

12-04-2011, 10:07 AM

FxMercenary

12-04-2011, 10:26 AM

Get a Genesis Model 2.

Seriously, the Sega CD Model 2 is more stable/reliable, and combined with the Sega 32X, the whole system will look flush, and all of the lettering will be white.

No red, no hard to find cables, everything is black and white and sits flush.

Here is a pic of mine.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/fxmercenary/Game%20Room/room6.jpg

Actually, come to think of it, I have an extra cable for the model 1 Genesis if anyone needs one. I got the Sega CD CIB

Collector_Gaming

12-04-2011, 12:00 PM

Ahh genesis. You shall enjoy mk1 in all its bloody glory. The better version of aladin (imo) and sonic titles. And one game i think is cool that i tried when i got it with a bundle deal i purchased early this year. Mazing Saga Mutant Fighter

Gameguy

12-04-2011, 12:40 PM

Also, the 3 or 4 games you can only play on a first run model 1 are playable with a Game Genie
Not in my experience, I've tried that with Budokan and couldn't get it to work on anything but the original Model 1. Maybe it depends on the version of Game Genie, I don't really know for sure.

A Nomad with a video out cable could also be a good system to get. :)

Edmond Dantes

12-04-2011, 01:01 PM

There are games that don't work with certain Genesis models? What games are they?

That just perplexes me. I can't imagine a console having that kind of issue.

Parodius Duh!

12-04-2011, 01:04 PM

There are games that don't work with certain Genesis models? What games are they?

That just perplexes me. I can't imagine a console having that kind of issue.

Its more common then you think.

Leo_A

12-04-2011, 01:56 PM

There are games that don't work with certain Genesis models? What games are they?

That just perplexes me. I can't imagine a console having that kind of issue.

Seems as if some of the unlicensed EA carts refuse to work in some systems. And, of course, Virtua Racing doesn't work on a Genesis 3. I'm sure there's more. With such a wide range of hardware options and software like the Genesis has and such a long run, there is bound to be the occasional issue.

There's been plenty of other examples, as well. The Playstation consoles had the occasional incompatible game depending on which revision, expansion pack equipped N64 consoles sometimes have issues playing Space Station Silicon Valley, there is a wide range of compatibility issues across 2600/7800 revisions, Intellivisions that won't play Coleco and a Mattel cart or two, etc.

You'd be hard pressed to name a console that doesn't have have the occasional issue. Even the Xbox 360 has an issue currently with Halo Reach and Halo ODST when playing on a slim arcade system with 4 gigs of internal memory. The multiplayer modes refuse to work since the systems aren't hard drive equipped, despite there being ample internal memory for caching and such that the game could use. And plugging in a USB memory stick to serve as a Xbox 360 storage device to take the place of a hard drive also doesn't resolve the issue like it's supposed to.

Supposedly a fix is on the way, but there's a modern day example of such a thing in action.

Emuaust

12-04-2011, 03:16 PM

I would seriously recommend the Model 1 + Model 2 Sega Cd combo, the audio on model 2 consoles is pretty terrible, I myself had a model 2 for years and laughed off peoples claims that it had inferior audio until I had both a model 1 and 2 running side by side, there is a pretty noticeable difference. The other advantage of going the model 1 route is you can use a PBC and play master system carts and cards without any mods to the unit.

In terms of video out, you'll either need a s-video modded console(which is pretty good on CRT's or good HDTV's that upscale) or buy an RGB + RGB to HDMI or Component convertor, that's going to give you the best and easiest results on a HDTV.

Sunnyvale

12-04-2011, 05:15 PM

Not in my experience, I've tried that with Budokan and couldn't get it to work on anything but the original Model 1. Maybe it depends on the version of Game Genie, I don't really know for sure.

Like lots of Sega's stuff, no one knows for sure ;)

There are games that don't work with certain Genesis models? What games are they?

That just perplexes me. I can't imagine a console having that kind of issue.

I can't remember the list, but the story goes EA and Accolade were watching the Mega Drive, hoping for no BIOS lockout when it came to the States. When it didn't, they had games ready to release. SO Sega made all the Genny's afterwards display that 'Lisenced By Sega' screen. If the game isn't lisenced and you display that screen, see ya in court! If it doesn't have that screen, won't work. SMMS or SMSS or something like that it's called...

theclaw

12-04-2011, 05:28 PM

Yup that screen also doesn't appear in Sega CD or SMS mode. If for some odd reason you only use those and not any Genesis carts period, you may potentially never discover the feature's presence.

PBC fits and runs on CDX without mods as well. One benefit it has over near all model 2 or newer models. Sure you "can" modify the Nomad to support PBC/32X, but that'd be disgustingly uncomfortable to use portable...

BlastProcessing402

12-04-2011, 05:47 PM

Model 1 Genesis uses the same AV cable as a Sega Master System. These only come with mono audio, to hear stereo you must use the headphone jack on the front.

Model 2 Genesis used a different AV cable. It's available in either mono or stereo.

32x uses the same AV cable as Model 2, but originally came with various adapters so you could use Model 1 cables. If for some reason you get a 32x and intend to use it on a model 1, make sure you get all the adapters you'll need.

A Model 1 Genesis will work with a Model 2 Sega CD, no problem. There's an extender piece for the Sega CD and it will look funny without it, but it still works.

A Model 2 Genesis on a Model 1 Sega CD is a little trickier, it doesn't want to fit right and will put stress on the connectors because the angle is wrong, but it can be done. I've done it, just to see if it would work, but it's not anything I'd do long term.

Other things to consider...
If you're planning to play any fighting games like SF2, MK, etc., you definitely want to make sure you get a 6 button pad. If you're sticking to more RPG's, platformers, etc, it's probably not critical and a 3 button might be enough.

If you do get a SegaCD and/or 32x, each has its own power supply wall wart in addition to the one for the Genesis, so make sure you have room to plug everything in.

BTW, Sunnyvale, the thing you're thinking of is TMSS, in case anyone wants to look it up for more info.

DuckTalesNES

12-04-2011, 06:06 PM

Get a JVC X'Eye. It's got the genesis and sega CD all built into one unit, you only need one power adapter, and it has S-video output.

http://ultimateconsoledatabase.com/others/jvc_xeye.htm

Tokimemofan

12-04-2011, 06:13 PM

If you are serious get a non TMSS Model 1 and a model 2 and pair them with a Model 1 and 2 Sega CD and add a 32x to the model 2 pair. There are about 10-20 games that have trouble with certain combos. A few examples are early EA titles and both Lunars. If getting a Sega CD get a ram cart too, they are expensive but required for Shining Force CD. There are a few Laseractive LD-ROM games but almost all are available on other systems for far less than you would have to pay to get one of those set up.

Sunnyvale

12-04-2011, 06:25 PM

BTW, Sunnyvale, the thing you're thinking of is TMSS, in case anyone wants to look it up for more info.

Thank you! Didn't feel like googling up an acronym I couldn't remember :|

Duke.Togo

12-04-2011, 06:44 PM

I happen to have an extra non-TMSS Model 1 for sale/trade. You can PM me if interested.

marlowe221

12-04-2011, 06:46 PM

Zoe F

12-04-2011, 07:46 PM

Get a JVC X'Eye. It's got the genesis and sega CD all built into one unit, you only need one power adapter, and it has S-video output.

http://ultimateconsoledatabase.com/others/jvc_xeye.htm

Actually, it doesn't have S-Video output. JVC's Wondermega, which is unfortunately Japan only, does. The X'Eye is a US version of the Wondermega, but there was an unfortunate bit of cost cutting involved. That cost cutting involved losing the S-Video output. The back of the X'Eye still has a spot for an S-Video out, but it was filled with plastic.

I still love my X'Eye, and it's pretty simple to mod for S-Video if you're technologically competent. You even have a perfect spot to put the plug.

bb_hood

12-04-2011, 09:05 PM

If getting a Sega CD get a ram cart too, they are expensive but required for Shining Force CD.

You dont need the ram cart for shining force cd, ive played that alot and Ive never owned a ram cart. I think they are needed for the lunar games though.

Duke.Togo

12-04-2011, 09:23 PM

You dont need the ram cart for shining force cd, ive played that alot and Ive never owned a ram cart. I think they are needed for the lunar games though.

I believe the issue referred to with Shining Force CD is that you need the ram cart for your saves if you play the whole thing through, beginning in book 3.

Gameguy

12-04-2011, 09:43 PM

Seems as if some of the unlicensed EA carts refuse to work in some systems. And, of course, Virtua Racing doesn't work on a Genesis 3. I'm sure there's more. With such a wide range of hardware options and software like the Genesis has and such a long run, there is bound to be the occasional issue.
Gargoyles doesn't play on a Model 3, it used a bug in the hardware to work in the previous models but that issue was fixed with the Model 3 so it won't run on it. And the Game Genie also doesn't work on a Model 3.

It seems they can be used on a Model 3 if you really want to, but you need to do some soldering.
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?12353-How-To-Play-Gargoyles-On-A-Genesis-3-Console

I would seriously recommend the Model 1 + Model 2 Sega Cd combo, the audio on model 2 consoles is pretty terrible, I myself had a model 2 for years and laughed off peoples claims that it had inferior audio until I had both a model 1 and 2 running side by side, there is a pretty noticeable difference. The other advantage of going the model 1 route is you can use a PBC and play master system carts and cards without any mods to the unit.
The last version of the Model 1 is pretty bad sound and audio wise, even worse than most Model 2s. The first version of the Model 1 is the best out there.

32x uses the same AV cable as Model 2, but originally came with various adapters so you could use Model 1 cables. If for some reason you get a 32x and intend to use it on a model 1, make sure you get all the adapters you'll need.
You can't use Model 1 cables with the 32X, it came with adapters so you could use the Model 2 cables on the Model 1 system. More specifically the adapter is used for the double ended cable to hook the Genesis video output to the 32X, the video cable for the TV plugs into the 32X unit itself and is a Model 2 cable.

You dont need the ram cart for shining force cd, ive played that alot and Ive never owned a ram cart. I think they are needed for the lunar games though.
You need the RAM cart to play Book 3 in Shining Force CD, at least if you want to save your game from Book 3. There isn't enough RAM in the internal memory to save everything. Once you play through books 1-3 you can play Book 4(once you find a hidden item in Book 2).

theclaw

12-04-2011, 10:01 PM

Wow. There is a lot more to this than I thought....

When you guys say that the composit signal is dirty what does that mean? I run my snes with a composite cable and it doesnt look half bad on my 41 inch LCD. Will it look worse?

I was thinking of going with the scart adapter route possibly but I am trying to keep this whole thing suitcase-friendly since I work out of town 4 days a week and spend a lot of time in a hotel.

Genesis has a horrid horrid way of encoding its RGB into composite. Spectacularly awful. But not unwarranted, composite support was still spotty among console makers when it launched. Remember TG16 out of the box didn't after all.

Despite that Sega waited until Saturn to fix their design. Rather than improve model 2/etc up to snes standards.

marlowe221

12-04-2011, 10:38 PM

Genesis has a horrid horrid way of encoding its RGB into composite. Spectacularly awful. But not unwarranted, composite support was still spotty among console makers when it launched. Remember TG16 out of the box didn't after all.

Despite that Sega waited until Saturn to fix their design. Rather than improve model 2/etc up to snes standards.

So would I be better off with RF on Genesis then (for simplicity's sake)?

A Black Falcon

12-04-2011, 11:29 PM

Well, composite does get you stereo audio -- as long as you have a Genesis 2 and a stereo AV cable (they did also make Genesis 2 mono AV cables), that is; with the Genesis 1 you can only get stereo out of the front headphone jack, the rear output is mono only. I'm pretty sure RF is mono, yes?

As for the video quality, yeah, AV isn't a huge step above RF for the Genesis, but there is a bit of an improvement. It's nothing like the vast jump going from RF to AV on the Turbografx was, though.

marlowe221

12-04-2011, 11:33 PM

So how expensive/cumbersome is the whole scart to hdmi (or whatever) process?

dchristie74

12-04-2011, 11:49 PM

you need one of these bad boys (cdx) and they take up little space.

i have all but the jvc x'eye on my site if you want to see with the cd players attached.

www.thevideogamecollector.weebly.com

marlowe221

12-05-2011, 12:11 AM

you need one of these bad boys (cdx) and they take up little space.

i have all but the jvc x'eye on my site if you want to see with the cd players attached.

www.thevideogamecollector.weebly.com

What is the video output situation on the CDX?

8-bit-dreams

12-05-2011, 12:25 AM

ive been playing with my GENESIS model 1 for quite a long time and didn't give me any problems as of now. 2 years or so..of regular playing.

i dont have other models to compare it with but the model 1 satisfied me so..

dchristie74

12-05-2011, 12:41 AM

it is a 9pin connector to rca jacks the same as the rca cables that connect to the genesis 2 or 3. It also works with the 32x.

theclaw

12-05-2011, 01:19 AM

What is the video output situation on the CDX?

Same as model 2. Down to the method used for connecting 32x.

32x is fully compatible, just no spacer got released. So it fits awkward.

marlowe221

12-05-2011, 01:26 AM

I'm certainly learning a lot in this thread!

Bottom line though, the easiest way to get a half decent picture on a modern LCD television from a Genesis is.... what?

Sunnyvale

12-05-2011, 01:35 AM

I'm certainly learning a lot in this thread!

Bottom line though, the easiest way to get a half decent picture on a modern LCD television from a Genesis is.... what?

AV cables. Quick, easy, cheap, and they're pretty clean. Not immaculate, but unless you want to drop some money, that's where to go.

Edmond Dantes

12-05-2011, 02:50 AM

Bottom line is: Get a Genesis, hook it up, have fun.

I've had a model 2 for twenty years, with AV cables, and I've never had a problem with it. The sound isn't inferior to Model 1, its just different. The only game I can think of where the difference is immediately noticable is in Shining Force 1 when you're attacking somebody.

And if the only games that don't work on the Model 2 are EA and Accolade games... they probably weren't worth playing anyway (okay, Budokan is halfway decent, but still)

Wraith Storm

12-05-2011, 04:09 PM

Just wanted to add that I have both an X'Eye and a CDX. I only had room to keep one hooked up and did some testing a year or so ago as far as video was concerned.

The X'Eye seemed to have better video output than the CDX. The game I most noticed this with was Ys III. During the intro of Ys III Adol is walking along and pillars are scrolling by. On the CDX the white sections of the pillars get a rainbow effect, whereas on the X'Eye they keep their respective color and look as they should.

I tried quite a few games and that was the most noticeable instance. Really there wasn't a huge difference between the X'Eye and the CDX but the X'Eye did seem to output slightly better video.

Not to mention the CDX will freeze within a few minutes of playing The Terminator or Jurassic Park on the Sega CD and they are both excellent games. The X'Eye is fully compatible and has no problem playing them.

If looking for both a Genesis and Sega CD, its hard to beat the X'Eye and as already stated it is easily modded to have S-Video.

Sunnyvale

12-05-2011, 04:22 PM

Bottom line is: Get a Genesis, hook it up, have fun.

This. For $50 or less you can get one from a great Ebay seller shipped with games and all the fixins. Worry about audio and video quality later, if you decide it's worth it.

jdc

12-05-2011, 05:23 PM

Lol.... this thread almost has me convinced to crack open the box on my sealed Genny Model 2. I've been wanting to play my Genny RPG collection....

Rickstilwell1

12-05-2011, 11:56 PM

You need the RAM cart to play Book 3 in Shining Force CD, at least if you want to save your game from Book 3. There isn't enough RAM in the internal memory to save everything. Once you play through books 1-3 you can play Book 4(once you find a hidden item in Book 2).

How long is book 3? Say you find the hidden item while in book 2 and you save right before starting book 3, if you managed to beat book 3 without turning off your system, could you then save in book 4 to the internal memory, therefore bypassing the need for the ram cart?

Gameguy

12-06-2011, 02:13 AM

How long is book 3? Say you find the hidden item while in book 2 and you save right before starting book 3, if you managed to beat book 3 without turning off your system, could you then save in book 4 to the internal memory, therefore bypassing the need for the ram cart?
I'm not sure how long it takes to play, but there's an entire playthrough of Book 3 on youtube that's 24 parts long. Book 4 is supposed to be short though, a playthrough on youtube is 8 parts long. I think each of the first two books are longer than the last two put together.

You could just leave your system running 24/7 I guess, but to access Book 4 you need the save files of the previous books. There's only enough space for 2 of them on the internal memory. At least that's what I can find online, I haven't found a copy of the game yet or a RAM cart to know from personal experience.

Rickstilwell1

12-06-2011, 06:18 AM

Ah now I understand how that works. It's because the game saves take up so much memory, even deleting the saves for all your other games is not enough to save all three parts to the internal memory.

BlastProcessing402

12-06-2011, 03:30 PM

You can't use Model 1 cables with the 32X, it came with adapters so you could use the Model 2 cables on the Model 1 system. More specifically the adapter is used for the double ended cable to hook the Genesis video output to the 32X, the video cable for the TV plugs into the 32X unit itself and is a Model 2 cable.

Huh, I could've sworn mine came with a model 1 adapter and not a Model 2 cable. Maybe there were variations, like how some had that dongle to plug into the expansion slot if you didn't use a SegaCD that many didn't come with but some (like mine) did.

theclaw

12-06-2011, 05:16 PM

Correct. The real sega model 1 cable is an adapter.

Anything that connects straight from model 1, to a 32x, is not sega hardware.

Korppi

12-06-2011, 05:28 PM

I would recommend to try to get a version with better sound chip. MD/Genny sound is so characteristic and nice, that I personally only accept the best, and the difference is quite large. Also RGB cable, that picks stereo signal from headphone jack at the front. Last, but not least a genuine Sega 6-button controller. That's nice setup to start with, worry about addons later, unless you find too good bundle. The nicest and most reliable MD/Genny setup with addons, region mods etc is quite a monstrosity (in good and bad). Also remember there's the Power Base Converter to play SMS games. Might be called by different name on that side of the pond.

E: Thanks for correction, theclaw.

theclaw

12-06-2011, 05:41 PM

Wondermega 1 without mods lacks RGB, meaning no 32x. I doubt Power Base Converter would fit it either.

marlowe221

12-06-2011, 05:44 PM

Thanks for all the help and advice.

I was thinking about purchasing from www.collectorscardsandgames.com.

Anyone have any experience with this store? Any reason I should stay away?

FoxNtd

12-06-2011, 07:21 PM

Thanks for all the help and advice.

I was thinking about purchasing from www.collectorscardsandgames.com.

Anyone have any experience with this store? Any reason I should stay away?

I worked with Mike, the owner of that store, several times. I was happy each time. Only once in our history he made a very small mistake and rectified it immediately when I reported it (one package was missing one item I paid for so he simply put it into the box of the second package I ordered a while later. No big deal.) :)

Recently, he moved near where I live and I picked up a Mega Drive cable from him lately, personally. Cool dude. I suggest describing whatever you'd be looking for and give him a chance to find what he has available for you (usually a few days.) That's how it always was when I sent him a "shopping list" of goodies I wanted to order. :popcorn: