View Full Version : Kind of a weird debacle... A/V Famicom vs. Modded Top Loader NES
So, kind of in a weird situation. I have a top loading NES, which I was very excited to finally receive. My friend had her's still in her close and gave it to me, no questions asked, with a few pretty decent games as well. However, this comes at a weird time. I was just considering getting my hands on an A/V Famicom and using a converter to play NES games, obviously so I can play both Famicom and NES games easily. But it seems like a waste now to do that when I can pay about ~$30 for an A/V mod for the top-loader NES (or do it myself) and track down a (much rarer) converter to play Famicom games on it. The other issue I've heard with doing the latter is that a lot of the time doing an A/V mod doesn't really work out quite so well on the top-loader, meaning it's still not a very clean signal vs. an A/V Famicom.
So, what's everyone's opinion? Can you give me some advice here. I'm trying to figure out if I should basically sell the top loader to get a Famicom and adapter, or if I should go through with the modding and track down a converter.
treismac
12-06-2011, 12:58 AM
No moral judgment/condemnation here, but I think it would be wrong to sell the Top Loader your friend gave you. I'd be pissed if I gave something to someone and they sold it.
No moral judgment/condemnation here, but I think it would be wrong to sell the Top Loader your friend gave you. I'd be pissed if I gave something to someone and they sold it.
Oh, I understand where you're coming from. But it wasn't one of those things where they were like, "Hey, I want you to have this, from me to you. This meant a lot to me, etc. etc.," it was more like, "Hey, you want this stuff I found in my attic? I know you like this kind of thing."
Still, that's another contributing factor. Even if I don't sell the top-loader, I'd like to hear opinions.
treismac
12-06-2011, 02:07 AM
I have a Top Loader and I considered the AV mod, but I decided against it for a few reasons- some reasonable some stupid.
1) My three toasters ALL work and look great. I see no reason to mod a less abundant version of the NES. Might as well keep it as is, since the other Nintendos I own work great.
2) The vertical lines are part of what makes a Top Loader a Top Loader. I kinda like having the lines because they are something that I read and watched videos about on the internet long before I bought one. Small things like the inferior picture quality of the Top Loader pique my interest as a collector interested in gaming history.
3) I figure one day I'll nab an AV Top Loader of eBay when my money tree finishes growing and produces fruit one day, and when I do, I'd like to be able to sit the two different Top Loaders side by side and compare them.
Gameguy
12-06-2011, 02:28 AM
I wouldn't mod a top loader system, I'd keep it original since it's already somewhat rare. If you really want the best video quality, the original NES systems are better for that.
And like treismac I'm also hoping to find an actual AV top loader at some point, though it would be very difficult to find. I'm also hoping to randomly find some Nintendo World Championship carts so it might not be the most realistic thing to happen. I'm still hopeful either way.
I wouldn't mod a top loader system, I'd keep it original since it's already somewhat rare. If you really want the best video quality, the original NES systems are better for that.
And like treismac I'm also hoping to find an actual AV top loader at some point, though it would be very difficult to find. I'm also hoping to randomly find some Nintendo World Championship carts so it might not be the most realistic thing to happen. I'm still hopeful either way.
A fair point, but much of the reason I'm asking this is because I want to be able to play Famicom cartridges. To solve this problem by simply getting a toaster NES as well wouldn't really be solving that. Unless you're proposing I buy an NES toaster and try to track down an adapter for it. Though I was under the impression that adapters only worked with top loaders.
theclaw
12-06-2011, 02:57 AM
Modded top loader. Done correct, important factor here, the only item you'll lack is that Japanese side expansion port you probably won't even use. NES special controllers are obvious to say colossally more available for purchase in near every meaningful sense in the west than Famicom ones.
From my experience A/V Famicom has a wide cart slot opening, while its connector grips tight. Making games slightly wobble and be annoying to remove. Besides the huge NES carts look weird sticking out so far.
Also most adapters for playing NES games on Famicom are built incorrect. Needing mods for Castlevania 3, apparently Fester's Quest and a few others too.
MeTmKnice
12-06-2011, 03:47 AM
From the playable aspect, why not something like a retro duo or similar that plays both?
From the playable aspect, why not something like a retro duo or similar that plays both?
I've heard that quality is... iffy to say the least, is one of my problems. That, and I'm fairly certain that those won't run Akumajou Densetsu. So, it seems a bit silly to invest in something that doesn't allow me to play all the games I want to play, especially this one given it's one of my favorites.
Plus... I thought Retro Duo didn't do Famicom... just NES & SNES.
Gameguy
12-06-2011, 04:31 AM
A fair point, but much of the reason I'm asking this is because I want to be able to play Famicom cartridges. To solve this problem by simply getting a toaster NES as well wouldn't really be solving that. Unless you're proposing I buy an NES toaster and try to track down an adapter for it. Though I was under the impression that adapters only worked with top loaders.
Famicom games work fine on the older toaster NES systems, you just need a converter cartridge. The converters are much easier to find than top loader systems, I've found several locally over the years. It's much easier to find an adapter to do this than to find an adapter to play US NES games on a Famicom system.
If you want to play some Famicom games because they have better sound than the US versions, I think you'll need a Japanese system to take advantage of that feature.
If you want to play some Famicom games because they have better sound than the US versions, I think you'll need a Japanese system to take advantage of that feature.
This is interesting. I hadn't really even considered that.
I'm having some trouble locating converters to play Famicom games on NES vs. finding converters to play NES games on Famicom, despite what you've said. I've found the latter in abundance, actually.
Rickstilwell1
12-06-2011, 06:15 AM
This is interesting. I hadn't really even considered that.
I'm having some trouble locating converters to play Famicom games on NES vs. finding converters to play NES games on Famicom, despite what you've said. I've found the latter in abundance, actually.
Oh cool, can you tell us where?
Lord Contaminous
12-06-2011, 08:44 AM
Get a A/V Famicom.
Slightly more advanced in the sound department on a few select games (more sound channels than an American NES)
Educate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v9339JUK3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfaZVW4TCPY
FABombjoy
12-06-2011, 08:49 AM
Though I was under the impression that adapters only worked with top loaders.
Look for converters that have a long ribbon attached - these are intended for use in a frontloading NES.
Now, if your NES has crappy aftermarket 72-pin connector with death grip, I would probably not use a converter in it.
Oh cool, can you tell us where?
Have you tried eBay cause... That's all I could find there, save for one or two of them.
Frankie_Says_Relax
12-06-2011, 01:27 PM
options options...
For playing 60 pin Famicom carts in a 72 pin NES setup, you can get no more authentic/reliable than the Nintendo manufactured converter board setup found in a Gyromite cartridge. Of course, these won't have a ribbon to pull it out of a toaster NES setup, but you can easily affix some strings to the holes on the sides of the black plastic.
If you want to all but guarantee that you'll pull a winner out of a Gyromite cart, it must be a 5 screw cartridge with standard non-security screws, and the pins coming off the bottom of the cartridge MUST taper down to a sharp point off the side of each pin, not directly in the center of the pin.
For playing NES games on a Famicom, you might as well shop at our friendly DP affiliate StoneAgeGamer
http://stoneagegamer.com/nestofamicomconverter72-pinto60-pin.aspx
Hwj_Chim
12-06-2011, 01:31 PM
You can always get a converter out of a gyromite cart. Much cheaper option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GLFkZNHSJ4
jperryss
12-06-2011, 02:20 PM
You can always get a converter out of a gyromite cart. Much cheaper option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GLFkZNHSJ4
It can be tricky to see if the cart pins are correct for a converter (off to one side instead of centered) but from what I've read any of the first-run Nintendo produced carts can potentially contain a converter. Gyromite does seem to be the most common one, though.
I pulled mine from a Gyromite card and screwed-and-glued it into a GG shell.
http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=30915
Hey thanks! Last two responses were quite interesting. I'll look into tracking down one, a local reseller at the flea market always has at least five Gyromite in stock. Basically what I'm trying to figure right now is if I can live without the advanced audio of the Famicom systems.
Frankie_Says_Relax
12-06-2011, 02:32 PM
It can be tricky to see if the cart pins are correct for a converter (off to one side instead of centered) but from what I've read any of the first-run Nintendo produced carts can potentially contain a converter. Gyromite does seem to be the most common one, though.
I pulled mine from a Gyromite card and screwed-and-glued it into a GG shell.
http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=30915
Eh, it's actually pretty easy if you have a centered-pin cartridge to compare it to. There's a very distinct visual difference once you know what it looks like
theclaw
12-06-2011, 02:59 PM
Hey thanks! Last two responses were quite interesting. I'll look into tracking down one, a local reseller at the flea market always has at least five Gyromite in stock. Basically what I'm trying to figure right now is if I can live without the advanced audio of the Famicom systems.
Whether you choose NES or Famicom, either way a mod must be performed to properly run the other language version of Akumajou Densetsu. JPN game on NES needs the system's audio lines reconnected. US game on Famicom needs the converter's data lines reconnected.
BlastProcessing402
12-06-2011, 03:06 PM
For playing NES games on a Famicom, you might as well shop at our friendly DP affiliate StoneAgeGamer
http://stoneagegamer.com/nestofamicomconverter72-pinto60-pin.aspx
Not so fast. If he's considering an AV Famicom that might not work
From the link:
DISCLAIMER:
This adapter is known to have issues and may not operate with the following systems:
* Famicom with CPU Board Version 02 (HVC-CPU-GPM-02)
* Famicom AV
* Sharp Twin Famicom
* Game Axe
Frankie_Says_Relax
12-06-2011, 03:11 PM
Not so fast. If he's considering an AV Famicom that might not work
From the link:
DISCLAIMER:
This adapter is known to have issues and may not operate with the following systems:
* Famicom with CPU Board Version 02 (HVC-CPU-GPM-02)
* Famicom AV
* Sharp Twin Famicom
* Game Axe
I have the same adapter that they sell.
It works fine on all manner of Famicoms that I've ever tried it on, BUT, the board is a bit long and the pins are a bit short (or some strange combination of how the board/shell is seated), so you can't insert it all the way into the Famicom.
Satoshi_Matrix
12-06-2011, 09:42 PM
I have both an AV Famciom and an NES 101 Toploader side by side. I use them both. I suggest you do that too.
Yeah, been thinking maybe it would simply be more efficient to buy an AV Famicom and use it for my JPN games, since I basically got the NES 101 for free. Was just trying to save some space. I don't collect to collect, I collect to play.
Satoshi_Matrix
12-07-2011, 03:18 PM
AV Famicom and NES-101 "Toploader" side by side are about the same size as an NES-001 "toaster". Unless you live in a shoebox, you shouldn't have to worry about fitting both.
Just word of warning though, the NES-101 just like the NES-001 operates on a AC power supply; the AV Famicom does not. Make sure you never EVER plug in an NES power supply with an AV Famicom. Just to be on the safe side, I'd recommend getting rid of the AC Power supply for the NES and buying a third party DC power supply for it. The NES doesn't care if it's powered up AC or DC of any polarity, but the AV Famicom sure does. Powering with the wrong power supply can fry the voltage regulator, or worse.
AV Famicom and NES-101 "Toploader" side by side are about the same size as an NES-001 "toaster". Unless you live in a shoebox, you shouldn't have to worry about fitting both.
Just word of warning though, the NES-101 just like the NES-001 operates on a AC power supply; the AV Famicom does not. Make sure you never EVER plug in an NES power supply with an AV Famicom. Just to be on the safe side, I'd recommend getting rid of the AC Power supply for the NES and buying a third party DC power supply for it. The NES doesn't care if it's powered up AC or DC of any polarity, but the AV Famicom sure does. Powering with the wrong power supply can fry the voltage regulator, or worse.
Oh wow thank you. Yeah I was curious about this. Do you know what kind of DC adapter it takes, specifically? Like... Size, I guess?
Satoshi_Matrix
12-07-2011, 07:06 PM
input: 100 - 120v AC
Output: 9v DC + ---C--- -
so yeah, a very common one. 9v DC center pin negative. Its the same power supply for the Genesis model 1 and the Super Famicom.
input: 100 - 120v AC
Output: 9v DC + ---C--- -
Fixed this for you. The AV Famicom needs a center NEGATIVE power supply, not center positive.
theoakwoody
12-08-2011, 02:47 PM
I bought an AV famicom and I absolutely love it. I bought a converter that fits snug into the slot so that the nes cartridges don't "rattle" around too much.
My reasons for AV famicom over the Nes toploader:
1.) I don't believe anyone will actually mod your console for $30 including shipping
2.) Added audio capability is awesome even if I only own famicom CV3
3.) Even though it's not is rare, it's way more hardcore to tell people you have a Famicom.
Emperor Megas
12-08-2011, 04:13 PM
3.) Even though it's not is rare, it's way more hardcore to tell people you have a Famicom.I actually laughed at that. :)
BlastProcessing402
12-08-2011, 04:35 PM
input: 100 - 120v AC
Output: 9v DC - ---C--- +
so yeah, a very common one. 9v DC center pin negative. Its the same power supply for the Genesis model 1 and the Super Famicom.
Also worth noting that it's not the same power supply as the SNES. I didn't know a SFC could use a Genesis model 1 power supply, but the plug is different on the American SNES, you couldn't even fit one's plug into the other system.
I actually laughed at that. :)
Me too lol.
I've decided to just get myself an AV Famicom and use it fit Famicom games, using my toaster for American games. My issue is mostly that I do a webcast and need the RCA connection. Besides I've been meaning to make a Nintoaster.
Rickstilwell1
12-08-2011, 06:14 PM
Have you tried eBay cause... That's all I could find there, save for one or two of them.
Hmm I never had any luck when I looked. Also usually when I did see them on ebay I looked at the connections on the item and the person had it backwards. Usually the ones that let you play Famicom on NES were all I could find and I held off on buying an AV Famicom because of that. There was only one time I saw the one you were talking about. That and the fact I only really wanted an AV Famicom for Gradius II. But now I'm stuck where I am not even getting to collect things for a while.
I still want to collect systems but because of the money involved I'm deciding to let games pass through me so I can play more games instead of the same ones over and over again for the hundredth time.
Satoshi_Matrix
12-08-2011, 07:33 PM
Oh whoop,s I wrote my diagram wrong. make sure you power an AV Famciom with a power supply with a negative center power supply only.
Also, shameless plug to my top 100 NES/Famicom games thread right here on digitalpress classic gaming.
Oh whoop,s I wrote my diagram wrong. make sure you power an AV Famciom with a power supply with a negative center power supply only.
Also, shameless plug to my top 100 NES/Famicom games thread right here on digitalpress classic gaming.
Heh heh I've actually been referring to that list a lot. You do an excellent job. :)
Plus I didn't actually know there was a Ganbare Goemon on the NES til I looked at your list. Also never heard of that Konami crossover game.
Dreammary
12-08-2011, 11:13 PM
I have both an AV Famciom and an NES 101 Toploader side by side. I use them both. I suggest you do that too.
I agree with Satoshi! As I have the exact same setup for gaming also and really you get used to the slight jailbars on NES-101 Topliaders overtime... personally I do not even notice them during gameplay unless I really stare.
Both are respectably great consoles!
Also if you buy a AV Famicom, use Famicom World because I bought mine from "Manuel", he shipped it to me for $90 with 2 dogbone controllers. I do not think a better price exists.
theoakwoody
12-09-2011, 09:43 PM
Glad you guys took it as a joke, I was hoping i didn't come across as some Nintendo purist asshole. I used to pretend to be a collector and care about all that hardcore BS. Now I'm just happy to find time to play old school classics on anything whether its VC, Nex, or AV famicom. If it sealed games were as cheap as loose I would love to rip those boxes open like it was christmas morning '88. Just be glad that Nintendo systems are plentiful and relatively cheap.
treismac
12-10-2011, 01:34 AM
If it sealed games were as cheap as loose I would love to rip those boxes open like it was christmas morning '88.
Damn right!
I will say that I do kind of like the idea of playing used games because I feel as if I am picking up where some kid, who is now grown up, left off years and years ago. And, in an animistic way, I feel like I am rescuing lost and lonely NES games from being forgotten in some attic, collecting dust. I bought a second copy of River City Ransom because of this. Some dude had a garage sale, and there was poor, little River City Ransom- all alone, scared, looking up at me with those big gray plastic eyes, saying, "Surely, you have room more in your collection for one more little cart?" And for five dollars, I did.
Parodius Duh!
12-13-2011, 11:40 AM
Original Famicom modified for AV is the best bet. An actual top loader AV famicom is not compatible with a ton of pirate carts, whereas the older hardware, IS.
Of course if you dont care about the wonderous world of famicom pirates, then a regular AV famicom will suit you fine. Remember, theres a few 100 more games released in Japan over North America. Most North American rarities that fetch a large sum of money cost peanuts for the Famicom equivalent ($14 bucks for Bonk over $80, ya, I think so). Also a ton of PAL exclusives were also only released in Japan (New Ghostbusters 2, Ufouria) which means they will run glitch free and at the proper speed.
Famicom kicks the shit out of North American and Euro NES. Hands down. You can always get an adapter to play NA carts on a famicom as well.
mobiusclimber
12-13-2011, 12:35 PM
I would suggest getting a Twin Famicom, especially if you're into Castlevania. That is how those first two games are meant to be played. There are also a number of great games that never got cartridge re-releases.