Sound System for Consoles?

[SoulBlazer]

After watching my roomie play the opening and the first half hour of Xenosaga on his new TV and Dolby Surrond System in his room, I was more then envious....I wanted to steal that sound system right that minute. :)

So I was wondering -- I've seen sound systems on sale at places like Best Buy and EBay specificaly for consoles -- can anyone suggest one?

I have a older 27 inch TV in the living room but it only has the two speakers on the front. It has a single S Video and AV cable connector. I have five systems hooked up to it -- a PS2, a GC, a N64, a 3DO, and a Sega CD. All of them are pluged into a coverter box and then into the TV.

I don't watch much TV in there (mostly in my room), so I just want the sound system for the consoles. (Besides, it's a old TV -- not sure how much life I can get left.) I'd like to get the best quality surrond sound for the modern systems but even better if it works for the older ones.

Thanks in advance for the advice and help.

[Gamereviewgod]

Get yourself a decent reciever that supports Pro Logic 1, 2, and 5.1 and you'll be fine. DTS is an extra bonus, but only about 3 or 4 games actually support it. The X-Box supports 5.1 to the max, the PS2 and Gamecube both support Pro Pogic II. Certain PS2 games have limited 5.1 support and even fewer have DTS. The SNES supports Pro Logic in a few games. If you spend around $200-$300 on the reciever with some decent speakers, you'll in awe if your upgrading from TV speakers. Side note: Those "Game sound systems" you see all the time are pretty much junk. You'll get some decent stereo, but the 3-D effect is pretty much non-existent.

[SoulBlazer]

I should have noted I did'nt want to spend more then $200 on this, cause I'm not exactly rich right now. :)

[Cranduit]

Pro Logic I and II are not a "supported" thing as Nintendo would like you to believe. They are a way of matrixing the sound coming from 1+ channels and putting it into 5.1. Pro Logic I does not do a very good job as it was developed quite a while ago. However, Pro Logic II is a great decoder but costs quite a bit more (prices are dropping often though).

As far as the not spend over $200 part there might be a couple of boxed sound systems, but not many of thoise are going to sound very good. I have a cheap reciever that I paid $50 for but then you have to realise that for 5.1 you need 65 speakers and a sub. Not really an easy find for under $200.

As more and more things come out the prices will drop, but the speakers don't get really cheap unless they're the kind you don't want to listen to.

[SoulBlazer]

I'm not looking for perfect results here -- just something good and useable. And no need for a sub. Just a couple speakers that give better stero sound then what I'm giving is fine for me. I'd love to get the 'distance effect' that I just heard from Xenosaga -- distant voices coming from the left side of the screen sound weak and from the left, then as the person aproaches the voice is loud and fills both speakers.

I allready have a great sound system hooked into this computer -- a Logitech 560 (four speakers, two for front and two rear, plus the sub). How I wish I could have this for the TV as well! My point is I got this for under $200. So why can't I get a similar setup for my TV and consoles for the same price?

[chadtower]

So why can't you? What is different about that than what you need for your tv? Get another one. My advice, if you're just looking for improvement at the lowest price, is to hit your local yard sales. Every weekend I see older stereo equipment selling for next to nothing. 5.1 receivers aren't common but you can find a billion good solid stereo receivers incredibly cheap. Speakers are common too, though you have to be more careful when buying those used.

EDIT: oh, and if your town has some type of highway dropoff for things you generally can't just throw away, check there. In my town, and in many towns, you can't put stuff like that out on the curb for pickup. You have to bring it to a highway dropoff for disposal. At that dropoff there will be something like several trailers full of various types of refuse (appliances, electronics, scrap metal, etc). Check the one with the electronics, you'd be shocked at the stuff people throw out that still works just because they want it gone and it has no value to them. I find working computers that way all the time...

[vintagegamecrazy]

Have you checked out RadioShack's systems? A few aren't that bad. I work for the company. for 299. you can get a really nice system, check out your local store and ask them about cat. no. 310.5010. No guarantee that they will have it but they may be able to tell you if a local store in your area has one. This is a good system because it costed 500 when it came out. This thing is about 600 watts and has a 3 dvd changer in it.

Like I said, I can't promise you one but its worth a try.

[omnedon]

My dad gave me an old Pioneer Dolby surround system in a box that he didn't want anymore after he upgraded. Not real surround, as in no rear channel. However, it did come with a subwoofer, and MAN, the difference beween this and the two TV stereo speakers is huge. It is avery good ghetto type solution.

I'll second the garage sale thing. If you're hunting anyway, try to find an old quality name stereo amp with lots of inputs. Then buy a couple decent speakers, and maybe a sub if you want. Big sound on the cheap! Good enough for the room of doom on a budget anyway. :-D

[SoulBlazer]

Well, thanks for the advice, but I'd like to get something new (with a warrenty on it), something top of the line (that will last for around five or six years), and something I can use on any kind of TV and any kind of setup (since I want this for normal TV watching, DVD's, and games).

I just got back from looking over at Best Buy and talking to someone around my age who also has a PS2 and DVD player hooked into a sound system. He suggested the Kenwood HTB-206. NICE system. It's 5.1 with a 100 watt subwoofer and the receiver. The speakers are very small and light. It has support for Dolby Surond Sound, Pro Logic II, and Dolby Digital 5.1, and DTS.

He specifialy used the example of Metal Gear Solid II (a game I have) and how much nicer it sounded and was in with the Digital 5.1 support, and I know that game has that option. Plus it has a headphone jack and a five year total warrenty (between the makers and the store).

The price? $300. A little more then I was going to spend, but it sounds like a ideal system and one I can use for years to come.

The only problem are stands for the speakers, as my TV stand is too small for any speakers there. They want $90 for TWO freakin stands! O_O I allready checked my local Wal-Mart and some other stores but they don't have any speaker stands. I can't mount them on the wall cause I live in a apartment.

I'm going to do a web search now and see if $300 is the best price I can find this Kenwood setup for it, and if it is, then I'll see what I can do about the speaker stands and go buy it. :)

Yes, the advice here DID help me know what to ask and for look for, so keep it coming. :D

[chadtower]

Keep in mind Best Buy monkeys are idiots. for $300 that system has a passive subwoofer for sure, and passive subwoofers are a TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY. You'd be better off buying nearly anything else. You'd be better off taking small speakers and a big cardboard tube as megaphone.

Don't be so quick to rule out older components simply because they're old. Stereo technology doesn't change much and often times that 35 year old GE vacuum tube driven receiver you buy for $15 will knock the shit out of any new receiver under $500. Back then they weren't designed with powered subwoofers and internal crossovers in mind so they simply output raw, animal power that you simply can't match with new receivers in a reasonable price range.

As for wanting a warranty.. dude, if you can pick up a whole setup at a yard sale for $30, how much warranty do you need?

[SoulBlazer]

What the heck is a passive subwoofer? I can't find anything about that but there's a good writeup and description on the system here:

http://www.nowonsale.com/ppf/itemname/Kenwood+HTB-206+Home+Theater+System/item/HTB206/itempage.asp

There's not really much else around here as far as shopping options and this system has everything I was looking for. Why SHOULD'NT I get it?

And yard sales? Please, I work Friday and Sat nights as a night auditor. When am I going to have time to go to those places? I'd rather have a brand new setup I KNOW will work right and several years of a warrenty.

I found some online places that sell this for $250, but for the cost of shipping it's easier just to pick this up here.

Now if I can just figure out what to do about the speaker stands.....I'm going to ask my landlord about holes in the wall, since this is a really old apartment anyway.

$300 is the max I wanted to spend, really. If anyone can suggest a system with equal abilities for that price, let me know. I allready talked to my roommate about it (who has a similar setup for his room and buys equipment all the time for a band) and he agrees it's a good system.

[bargora]

I don't have a surround-sound system or anything like that. My old 27" TV has audio out cables that I run into the aux port of a boom box (with equalizer and "turbo bass" woofer). The boom box puts out substantially better sound than the built-in TV stereo speakers. But what's even better is plugging in a nice pair of stereo headphones into the boom box. Perfect stereo imaging. If you don't mind wearing headphones while you're gaming, you can probably pick up good pair for about $50, and I'll bet you've got a suitable boom box sitting in a corner somewhere.

But if you don't like headphones, check GameCrazy. I think that they had some complete 5.1 speaker systems marketed toward gamers for under $200.

[sisko]

You wont find anything top of the line for $200. Thats actually bottom of the line.

Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Philips have home theatre kits too, and they range from $200 and up.

The only thing is that once you turn them up, they sound like crap. They also lack a lot of inputs. Most of the cheaper ones don't have component, only 1 or 2 svideo, and a few composite. MAYBE an optical input. Optical is neccessary for TRUE 5.1 sound (not PLII processed).

DEFINITELY check any receiver to make sure it has adequate inputs.

100W for a subwoofer is pretty bad. Besides, you'll want a powered sub anyway. Less risk of blowing anything, and they sound a heck of a lot better.

99% of receivers have a headphone jack.

Don't be fooled by wattage. My Denon receiver only has 80W per channel, but it still blows the crap out of my old Panasonic 100W/CH receiver. Often they show the peak power instead of optimum power.

Check the total harmonic distortion (THD) too. The lower the percent, the better the sound.

*edit* Your front left and right speakers should be at least 6-8 feet apart depending on the size of the room. Maybe you wont need speaker stands after all?

If you do, make sure to check the base size. You want to get the largest possible so they are harder to knock over.

[SoulBlazer]

Christ, this is getting more and more confusing. :(

Sisko, what do you think of the system I linked to in my last reply? The Kenwood that I was looking at? It sounds like it has a powered subwoofer.

And I really did'nt want to go over $300 on this if I could help it.......

My shopping options are really limited in this area, unless I go online. At this point I'm just trying to get feedback on the Kenwood HTB-206 that I'm interested in buying, and to make sure it has everything I need.

But yes, I did check the back of the receiver, and it has PLENTY of plugs. That's one thing I'm not worried about. :)

[chadtower]

"The 6-1/2" subwoofer is independently powered by the receiver's 6th amplifier channel, so it delivers the slam and excitement of a powered subwoofer."

Wow, that's awfully ambiguous. It says it's powered... but by the amp's 6th channel, which implies passivity. Basically, the difference between a powered sub and a passive sub is simple. You plug a powered sub into the wall for power. A passive sub takes its electricity from the speaker wire. The difference in available power in these situations is substantial. The lowest end powered sub usually is superior to a high end (if you can call it that) passive subwoofer. That actually does look like a decent amp but remember, if you're buying a $200 amp and $100 for the speakers, the speakers are going to be where they cut costs and you'll know it when you hear them. Sound systems really aren't something that can be bought in economy via retail and still get great sound, which is why so many people buy used.

EDIT: Just a recommendation, make sure to look at Cambridge Soundworks items before you commit to anything. I've found over the years that they often have the absolute best you can get at a given price point and I've never seen a bad product come out of their store. My own home theater is fully powered by Cambridge Soundworks items and people consistently tell me mine sounds phenomenal. These are often people with $3-4k setups of their own who choke when I tell them that mine cost $600.

[SoulBlazer]

Well, that brings me back to square one, then -- there's no dumping area for this town (I've checked) and my job prevents me from really using yard sales -- so I don't see any way to buy used, unless I use a online site or EBay.

So considering everything I've said so far -- wanting something that will last for a few years, multi-use, have my heart set on 5.1, Pro Logic II, and DTS -- what would YOU personaly suggest, assuming price is no limit? :)

Hopefully someone else will also weigh in with their opinon on the Kenwood. Not that you have'nt been great help, Chadtower. :-D

[chadtower]

Given your options as stated, you aren't really going to go wrong with that setup. I mean, it's not like it's a piece of garbage and it will last you quite a long time. I'm just throwing suggestions and info out there to see what sticks in your situation. If you don't have kids or pets to worry about you don't need those stands right away, either, if you ever really need them at all. That looks like a decent setup at that price but you seemed to be looking for more than that so I was trying to find a way to get you more than that. The one thing I'd make sure of here is that the system doesn't have any weird proprietary situations going on so that you can upgrade piece by piece later on if you want. I remember when I was looking at Bose systems, you couldn't upgrade or switch out any piece other than with an identical piece because of funky hardware issues. Check to see if it comes with speaker wire, too, since speaker wire can be expensive and is very important. I don't know what quality wire it would come with if it did, but a 5.1 setup can eat up a LOT of wire and crappy wire makes anything sound... well... crappy.

[sisko]

Generally speaking, Kenwood as a brand makes kickass car products, but their home line isn't the best.

The THD is HUGE on that unit (.7%) Anything less than .1% is goal.

The frequency response is kind of depressing. 40Hz-20kHz. You'll hear all of the highs, but the really lows will be missing.

The inputs aren't as much as you think. It only has 3 composite. No svideo. No component. This all depends though. You can easily pick up a switch box for "more" inputs. But you said your TV had svideo. You don't want to use that?

This requires a little planning ahead too. You said your TV wasn't going to last that much longer. Will your new one have svideo and component in (Most likely it will)? If yes, will you still be using the same receiver and speakers? If yes, look into another receiver.

Don't hole yourself into getting a home theatre in a box either. You may find it better to get a receiver and speakers seperately and upgrade piecewise as you go along. I was going to buy a HTIB too, but I found it more economical and easier to upgrade.

My original setup was a
Panasonic SAHE70 reciever.
4 really crappy speakers (like the 2 for $20 sets)
No subwoofer.
A spool of speaker wire.

Since the speakers were already lying around the house, I got a pretty decent setup for around $175.

As time went by and I got more money, I bought a better receiver and then new speakers, and then a subwoofer. (If you live in an apartment, your neighbours wont want you to use your sub that much anyway).

Hope that helped....

[SoulBlazer]

Oh, I understand fully, Chadtower -- and sorry if any of my notes sounded snippy or anything. :D

You really have given me a lot to chew on, and some of what other people have said have made me wonder if the Kenwood system I was looking at has it, like the component support (I only see compostie and S-Video listed) and the powered subwoofer (I don't know what that statement means either) and can't find anything called a THD anywhere.

But you think a 100 watt setup is low? That's all my computer Logitech system is, and it sounds okay to me.

I've heard spakers sound awfull placed on carpet, though. How high should they be, anyway?

[sisko]

The one thing I'd make sure of here is that the system doesn't have any weird proprietary situations going on so that you can upgrade piece by piece later on if you want.

He's right...Kenwood home used to do this a LOT. I don't know if they still do....

[SoulBlazer]

Well, right as I was doing that last note to chad, Sisko's came in. :-D

Let me ask you then, kind Sir, the same question I asked Chad -- given what I'm looking for, what would YOU suggest I buy? Keep in mind my shopping options localy are pretty limited.

Oh, and the subwoofer is'nt a problem -- the apartments next to me are for rent. :D I'm looking ahead to the future with any system I buy, also.

Yes, I can use my S-Video in my TV if need to. (Just right now I have my game systems all hooked up that way)

[chadtower]

Ignore wattage. Unless you're trying to fill a giant room with sound wattage on any amp is going to be sufficient. The THD he's talking about relates to how much distortion you're going to get when you turn it way up. If you turn it to high volume, will it still sound pure or will it sound like crap? That's THD.

You're not going to find a receiver that routes component video without selling black market babies to raise the funds. You're better off, at your price range, getting a receiver with enough inputs that you can properly use switchboxes. Once you get into receiver as switchbox for many items, and try to do that switching in the receiver instead of before it, you're going to start looking at the really expensive receivers. I mean the REALLY expensive receivers.

When you start talking about speaker height, that all depends on the layout of the room and where you plan to sit. Home theater setup theory is an entirely different subject and you can spend a lot of time reading about it...

[sisko]

Thats not entirely true, you can get receivers that do component switch for around $200 now.

The low frequency response doesn't really matter until you get a sub anyway. Even if the receiver can hear them, your speakers probably cant.

The Sony STR-DE595 runs $200 at crutchfield right now.

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-GfAu98nAgly/ProdView.asp?a=0&s=0&cc=01&g=10420&id=features_and_specs&i=158STR595B

Some speakers on weekend special or at a yard sale $40.
(These are about the same quality as the ones that typically come in a HTIB setup)

A bunch of wire cut off a spool at Home Depot $10 (if necessary).

That will sound better than the Kenwood, and be more useful in the future when you start upgrading your TV and stuff

Which receiver do I want if price was no limit? Denon AVR 5803 or the Yamaha RXV1. Someday I'll get one...someday :D

[SoulBlazer]

$200 on the amp alone? X_x

Like I said, I really can't make it to any yard sales or the like due to my work routines and classes. I was REALLY looking to get everything in one foul swoop, although I don't mind mixxing and matching brands. And yes, I did want a sub for this. :)

At least between everyone here I have a much better sence of the questions I should be asking and what I should be looking for.

Oh, to answer one question about the room -- it's the main room of the apartment, so a good size -- I'd say 50 by 15. The TV stand is in the center of the room, aganist the front wall, and the chair is right in front of it, aganist the back wall.

[chadtower]

You have a room in your apt 50 feet long?! Damn!

Wow, the price point for switching has come WAY down since I last looked... nice!

[sisko]

Knowing what to ask is half the battle, hopefully you get someone smart enough to answer the questions for you :)

Go to the store, try and get it hooked up with a cd player ala analog (NOT digital). Crank it up about 10 or 15 notches above what you would normally listen to.

If you're still happy with it, and youre still happy with those inputs, then go for it.

[chadtower]

Great. Now you guys have me wanting to upgrade my own amp to one with ProLogic II. Mine only does ProLogic I, mostly because of age. Is II really that much better?

[SoulBlazer]

Heh, at this point you guys have me so confused I don't know what to get. ;)

I will go back to the store later today, though, look around again very carefully, check everything with the notes I've taken from THESE notes ( :D ) and do sound testing.

Maybe I can get a receiver from one company and then speakers from another one, and keep the price down. It IS the receiver that is the number one important part, is'nt it?

And I may be off on my room size -- probaly more like 40 by 15. :) This is a two person apartment, though, and the living room also functions as a dining room (there's a table along one wall for eating.)

I saw a Yamaha system there that was also $300 but no manaul for that, and a Sony for $400. I know they have more....I'll just go back and take a more carefull look.

[chadtower]

Which piece is most important is up for debate, depending on what is most important to you. You are going to want to hook many things to it, so perhaps the receiver is most important. A setup mainly for DVD or Satellite would probably see the sub as the most important... many people would say the center channel is most important since that's where all of the speaking voices come from.

[SoulBlazer]

Right, I got about six consoles I'd like to plug in here, plus room for more stuff later on, and it's most important to me for TV viewing and console playing, with DVD's a secondary concern. (Heck, I still use my PS2 for that! :D )

[sisko]

Great. Now you guys have me wanting to upgrade my own amp to one with ProLogic II. Mine only does ProLogic I, mostly because of age. Is II really that much better?

I think so.



Maybe I can get a receiver from one company and then speakers from another one, and keep the price down. It IS the receiver that is the number one important part, is'nt it?


I think so. There is no point on buying ultra high quality speakers if your receiver cant handle them. Likewise for your DVD player, CD player or what not.

[Cranduit]

Is Pro Logic II really that much better? Yes, yes it is. I asked my friend the same question a few years back before I upgraded my receiver and he showed me the difference. He ended up putting a movie on and playing in PLI, PLII, and Dolby Digital. PLII and DD sounded almost the same. Just in case you are wondering he works in a high end electronics store and had the means to show me the differnce.

On a side note I agree completly with sisko on the Denon issue. I love mine and so do 80% of my friends that have a home theater receiver.

[SoulBlazer]

Well, I did'nt plan to buy anything today -- but I ended up getting it after all!

Went back to the store and talked to another salesperson, who refered me to another person, the 'expert' on the sound systems there. We talked for a long time with what I wanted, what I needed, what was best in terms of price vs quality, and listened to all of the various systems.

The receiver was what I decided on first -- a Yamaha HTR 5640. It has Optical, coaxil, composite, and compoment plugs, about six other AV ports, and is 75 watts. Plus a better frequency range then the old system I was looking at. And with Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS-ES, and Surrond Sound. The price was $300.

After that we went to speakers, and he finally suggested a good setup -- a older speaker system that was being discontinued by Best Buy because they changed companies. It was a Cerwin-Vega AVS 5.1, with four two way 100 watt speakers and one central 100 watt speaker, plus the 200 watt powered subwoofer. Normal price was $300, but because it was on clearernce he knocked it down to $250.

So you throw in the other needed parts -- a 100 foot wheel of high grade speaker wire, a good subwoofer cable, a extra AV cable, and a four year extended warrenty on each of the parts, plus a 'interactive' DVD to help to get everything hooked up, and the total price was $800.

Okay, more then I was going to spend, but I got a Best Buy credit card and put it on that, and I have 18 months to pay it off before intrest. I can pay half of it when the first bill comes in and then easily do $25-50 a month on it. And hopefully this will last for years -- the speakers I can always upgarde later when I get more money.

Now -- to bring this back into the gaming sence -- currently all my systems are plugged into a router box through AV cables and then from the box into the TV through S-Video and sound cables. I'm HOPING all I need to do is plug the speakers and receiver into the box. I'm not really sure, though. I'll need to open everything up and start playing around with it.

Anyone have any experience in hooking multipule consoles up to a receiver and speakers?

So -- hopefully I did good on this. :) It was a major investment, more then I was going to spend, and I hope it's good.

[sisko]

Is Pro Logic II really that much better? Yes, yes it is. I asked my friend the same question a few years back before I upgraded my receiver and he showed me the difference. He ended up putting a movie on and playing in PLI, PLII, and Dolby Digital. PLII and DD sounded almost the same. Just in case you are wondering he works in a high end electronics store and had the means to show me the differnce.

On a side note I agree completly with sisko on the Denon issue. I love mine and so do 80% of my friends that have a home theater receiver.

Oh yeah.... I used to work at a high end electronics store too. Thats where I got my stuff, Employee discounts rule :D

I love my Denon AVR1803, and don't know anybody who doesn't.

Yamaha is a good brand too. Definitely one of the better ones out there.

Make sure you are using decent cables for everything. You don't need to shell out ungodly amounts of cash for super fancy cable. Just make sure its well insulated and gold plated (gold plated is a must). Also make sure you use the shortest amount of cable. Extra length = Extra resistance = Reduced performance. Be sure to leave yourself enough slack to move them around though :)

Try to avoid switchboxes if necessary or at least use as few as possible. They do give you added jacks, but your signal starts to degrade after a while (like daisy-chaining RF Switches).

Hooking up systems is just the same as it is on your TV. If your TV has audio out jacks, you can even run those into your receiver. Some shows come in decent surround sound via Pro Logic (like The Simpsons).

[SoulBlazer]

So you think I did okay, Sisko? If so, that makes me feel a lot better. :D I don't mind admitting that I was out of my league here.

Okay -- can someone walk me through a ideal setup for my new system, then? I have five consoles currently hooked into a switch box through RBY cables -- my Sega CD, 3DO, N64, PS2, and GC. Then going from the box into the TV is a S-Video cable and a sound cable.

So what's the ideal way to do this with my new Yamaha receiver?

[The Manimal]

Buy a Marantz 2600 Stereo Receiver.



I would ALMOST kill for one of these.


$1,700 in the late 70's...


Here's the model beneath it...the 2500.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3034022295&category=3279



2600 'specs':

Rarity X-Rare
Retail Price 1600
Designed in USA
Manufactured In Japan
First Year 1978
Last Year 1980
Wood Case WC-124
Silver Face Yes, extruded
Channels Two
Tube Design One (Scope)
Speaker Connections Two sets
Chassis Ground Binding Post
AC Switch Yes
Fusing Rear deck
Switched AC Outlets None
Unswitched AC Outlets None
Power Source Details Dual Toroidal
Special Option 1 Dolby decoder (US model only)



Physical
Width 19 1/4
Height 7
Depth 17 1/8
Weight 60.3 lbs



Amplifier
RMS Power Per Channel 300 @ 8 ohms, 400 @ 4 ohms
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) 0.03% @ 300, 0.05% @ 400
Power Bandwidth 20 Hz to 20 KHz
Peak Lamp(s) Yes
Cooling Fan(s) Yes



FM Tuner
Gyro Tuning Yes
300 Ohm Binding Posts Yes
75 Ohm Binding Posts Yes
75 Ohm F Connector Yes
Mono Switch Yes
Signal Strength Meter Yes
Center Tuning Meter Yes
Multiplex Filter (Hi-Blend) Yes
Quartz Frequency Lock Yes
Stereo Lamp Yes
Dolby Lamp Yes (US model only)
FM Mode Lamp Yes
Muting Switch Yes
25 uS Deemphasis Switch (Dolby Associated) Yes (US model only)
Dolby Fm Decoding Option Yes (US model only)
Oscilloscope 2 Inch
Scope Horizontal Position Adjustment Front Panel
Scope Vertical Position Adjustment Front Panel
Scope Brightness Adjustment rear deck
Scope Focus Adjustment Rear Deck
Scope Internal Audfio Display Capability Yes
Scope External Audio Gain Control Front Panel
Scope Tuning Indication Yes
Scope Multipath Indication Yes
Illuminated Dial Pointer Yes



AM Tuner
AM Mode Lamp Yes
Signal Strength Metering Yes
External Ferrite Antenna Yes
Antenna binding Posts Yes



Preamplifier
Multiple Bass Adjustments Yes
Multiple Midrange Adjustments Yes
Multiple Treble Adjustments Yes
Tone Control Defeat Yes
Bass Turnover Options 100 Hz / normal
Treble Turnover Options 10 kHz / normal
High Filter 9 KHz
Low Filter 15 Hz
Gain Control Yes
Loudness Contour Yes
Mono L, R, L+R
Channel Reverse Yes
Balance Slider
Number of Tape Monitors 2
Tape to Tape Dubbing Yes, via front panel jacks, also 1-2 and 2-1
Auxillary Input Source Yes
2nd Auxillary Input Source Euro model only
Phono Input Source Yes
2nd Phono Input Source Yes
Illuminated Source Indicators Yes
Tuner Source Input Yes
Source Tape Input (as opposed to a tape monitor) Yes
2nd Source Tape input (as opposed to a tape monitor) Yes
Tape Monitor Yes
2nd Tape monitor Yes
Headphone Jack(s) Yes
Speaker Selection Nomenclature Main, Remote

[The Manimal]

delete me

[The Manimal]

I personally use an Onkyo...which is rather good except for a 'hiss'....but I wish I would have bought the Integra version instead! Banana connections instead of clips, better power supply, gold plated connections, etc....


That Marantz in previous reply is said to be the best solid-state receiver EVER made...


Friggin' 400 PURE AND CLEAN Watts PER CHANNEL at only 0.05% THD! That's INSANE. You have to pay at least $300 to get a stereo receiver now that is below 0.07% for 100 Watts. Plus now, they lie about specifications so much. No longer is that power measured based on running continously...but now based on running for a fraction of a second.



And about switchers....buy a high-end one and they are perfectly fine. I paid near $600 (below MSRP) for mine (8 inputs, 5 outputs, 2 monitor outs, 3 I-Link in/outs). Converts everything to S-Video without any signal degradation.

[NoahsMyBro]

Arrggghhh! I'm too late!!!!

1) I wanted to warn you off of Yamaha, purely for a personal grievance with them I wish you the best of luck with your reciever. Personally, 5 years ago Yamaha screwed me on a high-end CD-RW warranty and since then I've made it my mission to discourage anybody from buying anything 'Yamaha'. I ranted about this in a previous thread. If you really want the gory details (I ramble), just search for it.

2) By now I'm fairly sure you wanted something far more sophisticated and of higher quality than this (a PC/gaming speaker set-up) (http://www.slickdeals.net/), but when I saw it this morning I thought I'd pop in and point it out, in case you or anybody else here is after something like it.

Enjoy your system. I'll be jealous over here in my little corner....

[sisko]

So what's the ideal way to do this with my new Yamaha receiver?

Go buy an optical cable.

Run that from your PS2 to your receiver. (You may need to turn the optical output on your PS2 on. You can do that in the settings). Run your PS2 AV cable into your DVD input on your receiver, leave the Audio (White/red) dangling. There are component cables out there as well (Monster bundles a fiber optic and component setup.....it works extremely well) Once you get a TV that can handle component video, you'll definitely want to switch over.

Run your Audio OUT on your TV to your TV audio IN on your receiver. If your receiver has a TV video in as well, you can save a slot by using your Tape or CD input instead, Just to watch TV, your receiver will say TAPE instead of TV. Not too big of a deal.

Take your Video OUT and SVideo OUT on your receiver and run them to the Video IN and SVideo IN on your TV. You will need to cycle through your TV inputs to watch whatever you are using (Ant 1, Ant 2, Vid 1, Vid 2, SVid.....)

Plug everything else where it fits.

[chadtower]

That's good advice. Always use the best transfer mechanism for each console that it allows. I mean, you spent $800 on that system, why use rca now?

Make sure you get a good subwoofer cable for your sub, and make sure you use the sub level output for it. The difference between that and cheaping out is about half your sub's power.

[SoulBlazer]

Sisko, your suggestions are great but unworkable with my system. This is how I finally got the game systems working --

I have all my systems plugged into a selector, and then from the selector, Audio cables plug into the front of the receiver (where the manual says they have to go) and Video plugged into the TV.

I've also been unable to get the TV to work with the speakers -- even though I have the Audio from the TV plugged into the Audio in on the receiver. (I don't have S-Video plugged in right now). I'm going to have to call Yamaha for tech support.

There's no S-Video port in the receiver on this model. :( The only drawback. The model that has it was like $100 more. My selector has a S-Video port, though.

And I forgot to buy the Optical cable. ;) I have to return this bad subwoofer cable today anyway so I'll pick one up. Can't enjoy MGS2 in 5.1 without it! :)

So considering I want to have multipule consoles hooked up, is there anything else I can do to improve the overall quality?

[sisko]

Not really.

The only thing you can really improve upon now is the picture, and you can't do that until you get a new TV.

[SoulBlazer]

Well, I just got back from Best Buy. The subwoofer cable from yesterday did'nt work so I got a cheaper RCA one which works just fine. Plus I got the Opitcal cable.

This model of receiver only has one optical port -- for the DVD. Still, I inserted it into there and the other end into my PS2. It was'nt until I flipped the input of the receiver from Aux over to DVD that the Dolby Digital 5.1 cut scenes in MGS2 worked.

I did some more experimenting and discovered all I needed for PS2 games for sound was just the optical cable. So I moved my Audio cables from the front Aux ports to the DVD inputs on the back and now the GameCube and other systems all work -- just got to have the input on DVD now.

And it sounds even BETTER for all the systems then before! :-D

I'm quite broke right now. :) Once this TV dies, though, I'll make sure the new one I get has compostive ports. (And hopefully progressive scan also, so I can play Metroid Prime and other games with that).

Still no luck getting the TV to work with the speakers, but my folks are coming tommorow -- maybe they can help. ;)

[sisko]

Yeah it does sound better, but the optical doesn't work for all games.

At least, it doesn't work for Fantavision, and that really pissed me off. I don't know if there are compatibility issues with other early realease games or not though....

How much did you get your receiver for? You may want to take it back and get one with more optical inputs if its only a little more.

Currently, I use 3 of mine (CD, DVD, PS2), and you might outgrow yours awfully fast.....

[SoulBlazer]

It was'nt until I looked at the manual that I saw that my model only had one optical port and no S-Video's. The other Yamaha that does is a $100 more ($400 vs $300). I just don't think it's worth it.

Everything seems to be fine -- the only thing I can't run through the optical port is the cable TV, but I don't watch much TV on that one. As long as I have the one working Opitcal for the DVD's and games, that's good enough to me. (The PS2 is still my DVD player -- I only have a handfull of movies). I just wanted a good sound system and one I could use for years -- I'm not picky enough to demand perfection for it. :)

Do you have other systems besides your PS2 hooked into your receiver? What do you normaly leave your games in -- Pro Logic II and/or DTS?

[sisko]

Right now, I only have 3 systems (out of 13, I'm waiting until I move to hook up the rest).

I stick to the PLII with the "Video Game" on the preset equalizer.

[skylark]

So what's new since 2003? I need a good sound system for my 360 and PS3, but don't know a lot about them. Can someone share some info on a good package for a decent price? I've got money, but don't need anything extremely fancy. However, I would like to take advantage of all the bells and whistles of my hardware. If it matters, my tv is a 42 inch Samsung LCD. It's about 6 months old, gets 1080p, and lets you hook lots and lots of stuff up to it.

I guess this is a modern gaming question, but I figured I'd let a mod move the thread rather than create a new one.

[cleanwater111]

Your room sounds great...LOL

[Trebuken]

So what's new since 2003? I need a good sound system for my 360 and PS3, but don't know a lot about them. Can someone share some info on a good package for a decent price? I've got money, but don't need anything extremely fancy. However, I would like to take advantage of all the bells and whistles of my hardware. If it matters, my tv is a 42 inch Samsung LCD. It's about 6 months old, gets 1080p, and lets you hook lots and lots of stuff up to it.

I guess this is a modern gaming question, but I figured I'd let a mod move the thread rather than create a new one.

I can't suggest any 'in a box' systems other than BOSE. BOSE is an easy, yet expensive solution. The speakers that are included are so tiny as to make it feel like your not getting what you paid for.

Spend as much as you can on a receiver and 5.1 speakers (at least). Look for a receiver with HDMI (version 1.3 if it's out), and maybe upconversion.

An audio upgrade can have as much an impact as the HDTV.

I have an Onkyo SR-674 receiver and it works well for me but if I were buying today i might go with something else. Get some matching speakeres and a subwoofer and your good to go.

[FAMOUS]

Home theatre in a box... I purchased a panasonic one at ultimate electronics for under $300, best purchase ive made in a while, upconverted my dvds, plays dts on my movies and i have full surround on my 360 which is AMAZING! I cant afford to buy a receiver,speakers,wires all seperate i see it as a waste of money, my under $300 system does what it needs to do, and sounds just as good as the big systems.:D

[skylark]

Thanks for the response. Tonight, I just tossed 1200.00 on a Sony ES receiver and a set of Onkyo 7.1 speakers. I have one more question: Several reviews said that you should get a better sub woofer cable than what comes with the speakers, but how do I know what qualifies as a "good" cable? Of course, I may not even notice any flaw with the one provided, but assuming I do...

[cyberfluxor]

I'm pretty content with what I currently have and sometime in the future I'll invest into better things but for now I use a pair of Kenwood KL-777's:
http://www.oaktreeent.com/web_photos/Stereo_Speakers/Kenwood_KL-777_Stereo_Speakers_web_small.jpg
And for a receiver I have Kenwood that puts out 100 Watts to each channel except the sub, which is a self powered 10" Kenwood sub @ 260 Watts. I wish I could recall the model # but it escapes me right now. The total cost of the system was $60 speakers, $60 receiver, $5 sub and $15 for 8-gage home audio wires (50ft).

I also jack my AKG K240 headset in and mute speakers when I want a different, closer and clearer sound. I actually plan to eventually get AKG K701 at some point and try those puppies out.

[Trebuken]

Thanks for the response. Tonight, I just tossed 1200.00 on a Sony ES receiver and a set of Onkyo 7.1 speakers. I have one more question: Several reviews said that you should get a better sub woofer cable than what comes with the speakers, but how do I know what qualifies as a "good" cable? Of course, I may not even notice any flaw with the one provided, but assuming I do...

You want a better insulated cable and better materials. you can get all kinds of interference with a subwoofer, presumably because it's powered.

With cables more expensive is generally better. What you have might be good enough for now. I generally do not think the expensive cables are worth the money but this could be an exception. I have had issues with my sub when I move it at all and I believe it is the cable.

[Dreamcast]

4.1 Creative Speakers (look them up)

$100? Probably?

[ProfJimbo]

If you just want good sound without worrying about the technicals behind it, I recommend buying a set of computer speakers that includes a sub-woofer.

I got a set of Logitech G51's for $180.00 from NewEgg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121012

Great for the new games...great for the classics.

[smokehouse]

When it comes to budget systems for older game consoles, I say go with a great stereo setup...there's really no need for multichannel playback so why bother? If you look hard enough, you can find some great deals here:

http://www.audiogon.com/

Great used stuff, I've been a member there from some time and have never had a problem yet. Most of these guys are so anal that their stuff is perfect/near perfect.

As for me, I normally play my stuff on my 32" Sony Wega set but for more intense gaming I use my home theater:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/smokehouse/Home%20Theater/HT2007.jpg

I know, shameless plug but I post pics whenever I get he chance...