Microsoft Won't Let You Play USED Games On The Next Xbox

[RPG_Fanatic]

As said in the title -

http://www.gamespot.com/news/next-xbox-to-play-blu-rays-block-used-games-report-6349165

What does everyone think if this turns out to be true.

[RCM]

This is a rumor and probably won't happen. Next, please.

[RP2A03]

Nope. Not going to happen.

[Genesaturn]

If manufacturers stopped allowing use of "used" games then the majority of your current gen stores such as gamestop would probably go out of business.

[Collector_Gaming]

doesn't this go with that thing where they were trying to make that resident evil game for the Nintendo 3DS a 1 play only game or something like that cause supposedly the company has a major grudge against the resale on used games and this is their way on stopping it?

Not that it really matters cause once they throw a better online purchasing program on the same level as steam I feel gamestop will cease to exist sadly due to gamers not wanting to get up from their precious game chairs and go out and actually do something

[fluid_matrix]

Weren't there rumors of this with the PS3? I highly doubt this will happen.

[Genesaturn]

doesn't this go with that thing where they were trying to make that resident evil game for the Nintendo 3DS a 1 play only game or something like that cause supposedly the company has a major grudge against the resale on used games and this is their way on stopping it?

Not that it really matters cause once they throw a better online purchasing program on the same level as steam I feel gamestop will cease to exist sadly due to gamers not wanting to get up from their precious game chairs and go out and actually do something

They have done away with that...they were making it so after it was registered to a specific 3DS or whatever it would not be able to be registered to anyone elses

Look at the PSVita, its already made so only one user per handheld...cant even share it now with a significant other or a sibling without having everything on one psn account

[kedawa]

If this were true, it would basically hand the console market to Sony on a silver platter.
The 3DS Resident Evil game was never going to have anything like that. It was simply that you couldn't create a new save file, so you'd have to continue the previous owner's game.

[Rickstilwell1]

Gamestop could still keep themselves in business by not offering new games at all and just start re-stocking games and consoles for those platforms they already dropped from their market. Maybe one of these days they will realize how stupid they were for taking retro games away from customers. I miss the days of going into Game Crazy and Gamestop solely with the intent of buying classics. I never looked in the new games sections back then.

[Ryudo]

Why do people even read Koatuku? It's the Sun/Enquirer of game sites. They just like to troll.

[Bojay1997]

Gamestop could still keep themselves in business by not offering new games at all and just start re-stocking games and consoles for those platforms they already dropped from their market. Maybe one of these days they will realize how stupid they were for taking retro games away from customers. I miss the days of going into Game Crazy and Gamestop solely with the intent of buying classics. I never looked in the new games sections back then.

It was only a small percentage of their business and frankly, it has the potential to take away from used sales of newer games, so focusing on retro stuff is not really a good move for Gamestop. Certainly, they couldn't remain financially viable just selling retro stuff. Heck, I think I recall Joe saying that even the DP store doesn't depend mostly on classic game sales and that without used newer game sales, the shop wouldn't exist.

[The 1 2 P]

Weren't there rumors of this with the PS3? I highly doubt this will happen.

Well it kind of happened but only for one game: DC Universe Online. Because it's an MMO it automatically registers to the first console that plays it, rendering used copies 100% useless but they make a hell of a drink coaster.

But like others have already said, this will never happen. I mostly buy new games but even I know this is a bad idea.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Well it kind of happened but only for one game: DC Universe Online. Because it's an MMO it automatically registers to the first console that plays it, rendering used copies 100% useless but they make a hell of a drink coaster.

But like others have already said, this will never happen. I mostly buy new games but even I know this is a bad idea.

Wasn't this the case with Final Fantasy XI Online on the PS2, as well? But again, these are monthly MMORPGs, you CAN'T just give the game away to someone else.

[WCP]

It's an interesting idea, but the problem with it, is that it ultimately doesn't make sense. If you purposely make it so that used software can't be played on your system, then you are basically saying to GameStop, "Fuck you, I hope you die".


Now.... The thing is, they could actually do that, but if they did that, they might as well go all the way with it, and completely eliminate physical media all-together. They could basically just hold up both middle fingers to retail, and completely eliminate the middle man. The problem is, an analyst like Michael Pachter would argue that such a strategy is suicide, that you absolutely need to have brick and mortar retail partners to make this work. Personally, I don't think you need retail at all. You could simply have a 1-800 number, and Xbox.com, and just ship consoles and controllers and accessories directly to somebodies house. Like Gateway did with computers. You also open up a couple of Microsoft stores for every large population center. Basically, do what Apple is doing. Apple TV will eventually be a direct competitor to Microsoft and Sony, so they are going to have deal with the 800 lb. gorilla sooner or later. Might as well do a preemptive strike and deal with the threat now.


The money that they would save by going directly to the consumer and having no physical media, only physical hardware and accessories, would allow them to bombard TV, cable, Satellite, radio, etc, etc, airwaves with advertisements to just go to xbox.com, or call 1-800-4 MY Xbox. That's all they have to do. They could actually kill GameStop if they really wanted to. The big downside is that they would make mortal enemies of all retail companies. Wal-Mart, Amazon, Target, Best Buy, Sears, Kmart, etc, etc. They would piss off a TON of retailers.


This is something that Microsoft simply can't afford to do, because they have relationships with all those retailers, to sell their other products. They can't afford to burn those bridges.


Not Gonna Happen

[kupomogli]

Well it kind of happened but only for one game: DC Universe Online. Because it's an MMO it automatically registers to the first console that plays it, rendering used copies 100% useless but they make a hell of a drink coaster.

But like others have already said, this will never happen. I mostly buy new games but even I know this is a bad idea.

All MMOs released require a registration code. You can purchase an additional registration code if you lost one or purchased a used copy, but without a working registration code, the game is pretty much useless.

[buzz_n64]

If they do this, I will not be buying it, as the majority of my games are used games. I don't think I will be buying it anyway, I might hold out for the PS4.

[kedawa]

Unless they're going to require every console to be connected to the internet in order to authorize the game, and make every game disc uniquely identifiable, this wouldn't even be possible. There's nothing to worry about.

[Dangerboy]

You don't even need the GameStop angle. How about, you know, lending games to friends, selling them yourselves to forum members, ebay, GameFly, Rental, etc - it would all go poof.

[The 1 2 P]

You can purchase an additional registration code if you lost one or purchased a used copy

Not according to this (http://gamepolitics.com/2011/02/14/why-you-shouldn039t-buy-dc-universe-online-used) kupo:



From an SOE representative:

"Once the PSN key has been consumed with a disk it cannot be resold/replayed with the second user adding a sub – only the original consumer can use that acct."

SOE also said that the retail disc and the PSN code are one and the same, meaning it is completely worthless after that first use. Further, there is no way (currently) that a second hand user can obtain a new code.

Unless something has changed recently thats probably still their policy. And I remember that Gamestop passed an internal memo not to accept or sell this game used for that very reason. I can understand this method being used for MMO's but I hope thats not the future of used games. But even if it's destined to happen it definitely won't be during the next round of console hardware.

[G-Boobie]

There should be a moratorium on anything published by Kotaku without at least one other source. This is bullshit click bait, nothing more.

We had this discussion back in the PS3 rumor days, and the conclusion we came to was, "the internet is more retarded than Sony on its worst day." It won't happen.

[WCP]

yeah, Kotaku seems to be getting worse and worse. They will post up any rumor they get, regardless of how sketchy the source. I used to go there at least once a day, but I just don't like the way their website is set up anymore. I wish it was just the old way, where you just scroll down and down and down and then click to the next page. I hate how they have it chopped up into these separate sections. it really sucks.

[Flashback2012]

Put me in the "this isn't likely to happen" camp.

[Griking]

Gamestop could still keep themselves in business by not offering new games at all and just start re-stocking games and consoles for those platforms they already dropped from their market. Maybe one of these days they will realize how stupid they were for taking retro games away from customers. I miss the days of going into Game Crazy and Gamestop solely with the intent of buying classics. I never looked in the new games sections back then.

I miss old games as well but the problem is that their stores are only so big. Look at them now, they're pretty much filled as it is. Where would they put all of the NES, SNES, PS1, etc... games?

[Rickstilwell1]

I miss old games as well but the problem is that their stores are only so big. Look at them now, they're pretty much filled as it is. Where would they put all of the NES, SNES, PS1, etc... games?

That's where Game Crazy had a better floorplan. Instead of just a wooden desk for the cash registers, they also had a bunch of glass displays filled with cartridges. Gamestop doesn't have nearly as much of these.

And don't you think stores could basically thrive off of used Playstation 2, Xbox 360, Playstation 3, DS, 3DS, Wii and PSP games for another 10 years if they don't carry the next gen Xbox stuff? Few people have actually played all games ever made for those systems yet.

[Leo_A]

Most of their business comes from new and used game sales for current generation systems. Always has and always will be that way. Sales of previous generation software usually dries up pretty quick, with the PSOne and PS2 serving as notable exceptions.

Unless margins are high enough on new games for them to survive an era where used game sales disappear for current systems, I don't think they could survive very long. Supporting gamers that haven't moved on yet from today's systems would be a temporary reprieve at best if they were able to do robust sales on things like 360 and PS3 games for a few years into this upcoming generation. There's no way they'd be able to support their business model and thousands of stores for 10 years just supplying used games for today's platforms after they've been replaced.

But we're years away from anything approaching 100% broadband availability in areas like North America and millions of current generation gaming hardware has never been connected to the internet. So like others have said, there's effectively no way yet for them to prevent used game sales unless they made optical disc with a portion of it being rewritable and tie the disc to a specific system that first plays it (And before someone suggests it, rewritable flash media is far too expensive compared to optical media which makes it all but certain that the PS4 and Xbox 720 will be sticking with optical discs).

And with the way console durability has been slipping in recent generations, that would be a disaster for any company foolish enough to try such a thing.

[duffmanth]

Man, publishers are really trying to kill off the used game market! I don't think this will happen? First it will destroy gaming at the retail level, and second I know a lot of people that buy used games almost exclusively and these people probably wouldn't buy any system that won't let you play used games.

[Genesaturn]

As an Ex-Game Crazy employee I will say yes, they did have a 1up on Gamestop with their retro games, but it was a major focus for the company...but for ebgames/gamestop it was more like just dumping old stock as it was usually tossed in bins and hidden among all the new games released.

I seriously doubt Microsoft would do this.....to do this would be blind to the plight of many gamers who can't afford $60 bucks a pop on every new game. I ONLY pick up maybe 5-6 new games every year..if that..and they are usually games I really really want. All the other games I purchase are usually used and $30 or less. I'm sorry but if Microsoft takes this no used games approach all they are doing is hurting themselves by encouraging more Piracy of their stuff.

[VG_Maniac]

I don't see how this could work. What happens if your system breaks, and you have to buy a new one? Is the new system going to reject your library of games because they are "used"? What about if you want to bring a game over to someone else's house and play it on their system?

[VertigoProcess]

I don't see how this could work. What happens if your system breaks, and you have to buy a new one? Is the new system going to reject your library of games because they are "used"? What about if you want to bring a game over to someone else's house and play it on their system?

The all powerful cloud...

[Greg2600]

Would lose millions of buyers.

[VertigoProcess]

Would lose millions of buyers.

digital gaming isn't a possible future, its happening... and 95% of gamers will take it... and 65% of them will say digital is better... just you wait and see...

[Griking]

Would lose millions of buyers.

Ultimately all gaming will be via download anyway. All its going to take is for the first console manufacturer to do it and the rest will fall in place like a deck of cards. They all hate used game sales and will do anything they can to kill it. And people aren't as against it as you may think. How many customers does Steam have now?

[Rickstilwell1]

Ultimately all gaming will be via download anyway. All its going to take is the first console manufacturer to do it and the rest will fall in place like a deck of cards. They all hate used game sales and will do anything they can to kill it. any people aren't as against it as you may think. How many customers does Steam have now?

Yeah but if that's the case, then why not just game from a PC. If consoles are just going to become Steam, might as well just use Steam from a PC and quit buying consoles altogether. Consoles will probably just lose all their appeal if they try to copy PC gaming's format.

[Greg2600]

Ultimately all gaming will be via download anyway. All its going to take is the first console manufacturer to do it and the rest will fall in place like a deck of cards. They all hate used game sales and will do anything they can to kill it. any people aren't as against it as you may think. How many customers does Steam have now?
It could work if they allow you to get credit back for "trading" a game in for a new game. Consumers have grown up on that model, and to extinguish it overnight would be foolish. You also kill the collecting aspect of it. Will the games be cheaper because there's no retailing middle man?

[Collector_Gaming]

Yeah but if that's the case, then why not just game from a PC. If consoles are just going to become Steam, might as well just use Steam from a PC and quit buying consoles altogether. Consoles will probably just lose all their appeal if they try to copy PC gaming's format.

thats basically what it will come down to as well is all the consoles will be exactly the same except for looks and design of say the controller. Out of the that virutally that exact same

[The 1 2 P]

Already being discussed here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?159603-Microsoft-Won-t-Let-You-Play-USED-Games-On-The-Next-Xbox).

[VertigoProcess]

Yeah but if that's the case, then why not just game from a PC. If consoles are just going to become Steam, might as well just use Steam from a PC and quit buying consoles altogether. Consoles will probably just lose all their appeal if they try to copy PC gaming's format.

Because pc gaming is expensive and buying a console stream lines everything... not to mention doesn't microsoft ultimately want to make a machine that groups gaming multimedia and computing all in one anyway?

[VertigoProcess]

Already being discussed here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?159603-Microsoft-Won-t-Let-You-Play-USED-Games-On-The-Next-Xbox).

Apparently the servbot didn't think that thread was good enough...

[Griking]

Yeah but if that's the case, then why not just game from a PC. If consoles are just going to become Steam, might as well just use Steam from a PC and quit buying consoles altogether. Consoles will probably just lose all their appeal if they try to copy PC gaming's format.


/shrug

I've always felt that computers were vastly superior so you won't get an argument from me but I've heard a lot of people claim that installing games on a PC is difficult for some reason. Plus admittedly there are occasional glitches due to different PCs having different hardware. A download only console wouldn't have any these problems I suppose but it would still be a nerfed PC IMO.


It could work if they allow you to get credit back for "trading" a game in for a new game. Consumers have grown up on that model, and to extinguish it overnight would be foolish. You also kill the collecting aspect of it. Will the games be cheaper because there's no retailing middle man?

The thing is, the manufacturers don't want to give you credit for used games. And sure, consumers are used to the existing model but when the time comes and this change happens they're going to have to make the choice to get used to the new system or not play a lot of games that they'd like to play.


Because pc gaming is expensive and buying a console stream lines everything... not to mention doesn't microsoft ultimately want to make a machine that groups gaming multimedia and computing all in one anyway?

This is a myth. Perhaps in the past PC gaming may have been expensive but you can buy a middle of the road gaming rig today for $500 easily which would have better visuals than either the Xbox 360 or the PS3.

[j_factor]

I feel like I'm the only one with a long memory. This exact same rumor went around for the PS3 before it came out, and it turned out to be completely bunk.

[Rob2600]

Yeah but if that's the case, then why not just game from a PC. If consoles are just going to become Steam, might as well just use Steam from a PC and quit buying consoles altogether. Consoles will probably just lose all their appeal if they try to copy PC gaming's format.


Perhaps in the past PC gaming may have been expensive but you can buy a middle of the road gaming rig today for $500 easily which would have better visuals than either the Xbox 360 or the PS3.

People want simple appliances. A computer *could* replace a DVD player, Blu-ray player, DVR, sound system, and home video game console, but people don't want to deal with the complexities of a computer. They just want to pop in a disc, hit play, and that's it.

Plus, a pretty good gaming computer that will last five or six years without hardware upgrades costs at least $1,000. People would rather just buy a Wii or Xbox 360 for $200 instead, and never have to worry about adding RAM, buying a more powerful graphics card, or updating drivers.

[Polygon]

I know that they're trying to move completely to digital distribution. However, the day that happens is the day I will most likely stop buying new consoles and games. I like that I can pop in my old games and play them any time I want. This would mean they could take away that game at any time and you couldn't play it anymore. Also, I'm sure they won't support those games for very long past the consoles lifetime.

Sadly, this won't matter to most people. So, I can see this happening eventually. It won't happen with the next generation though.

[Mr Mort]

I know that they're trying to move completely to digital distribution. However, the day that happens is the day I will most likely stop buying new consoles and games. I like that I can pop in my old games and play them any time I want. This would mean they could take away that game at any time and you couldn't play it anymore. Also, I'm sure they won't support those games for very long past the consoles lifetime.

Sadly, this won't matter to most people. So, I can see this happening eventually. It won't happen with the next generation though.

I agree. Inevitably, when consoles go to digital-only distribution, have even more restrictive DRM, or require a constant internet connection is when I will stop purchasing current-gen consoles & games. I have no interest in being a part of that kind of business model.

I suspect tho that the upcoming generation of consoles is when we'll start to see this shift. Just as we have now, games will be available in retail or distribution form, only the digital version will come out the same day as retail, and it will be pushed in a big way. I guarantee it's going to start happening with the next PS/Xbox.

[Robocop2]

I feel like I'm the only one with a long memory. This exact same rumor went around for the PS3 before it came out, and it turned out to be completely bunk.

Nah you're not alone I remember that too and I thought it was silly then

[Greg2600]

The PS3 was used in part by Sony to sell the blu-ray technology. Why would Sony, who have so much invested in BD, stop using disc-based games?

[Polygon]

I agree. Inevitably, when consoles go to digital-only distribution, have even more restrictive DRM, or require a constant internet connection is when I will stop purchasing current-gen consoles & games. I have no interest in being a part of that kind of business model.

I suspect tho that the upcoming generation of consoles is when we'll start to see this shift. Just as we have now, games will be available in retail or distribution form, only the digital version will come out the same day as retail, and it will be pushed in a big way. I guarantee it's going to start happening with the next PS/Xbox.

Yeah, I think you'll see a shift towards that more with the next generation as well. So far it's mostly been small games or re-releases of older games. But that's how it works. You do things little by little so that people don't realize they're being screwed.

[Griking]

People want simple appliances. A computer *could* replace a DVD player, Blu-ray player, DVR, sound system, and home video game console, but people don't want to deal with the complexities of a computer. They just want to pop in a disc, hit play, and that's it.

After you initially install a game which is very simple nowadays, you really only the install directory or leave it at defaults. Once its installed then its exactly as you describe. Turn on your PC, double click the game icon and play.



Plus, a pretty good gaming computer that will last five or six years without hardware upgrades costs at least $1,000. People would rather just buy a Wii or Xbox 360 for $200 instead, and never have to worry about adding RAM, buying a more powerful graphics card, or updating drivers.

But a Xbox 360 didn't cost $200 when it came out. It was more or less the same price as that middle of the road gaming PC.


Yeah, I think you'll see a shift towards that more with the next generation as well. So far it's mostly been small games or re-releases of older games. But that's how it works. You do things little by little so that people don't realize they're being screwed.

I think that its the smaller developers that are driving down the new download only path but not to screw people. Making their game downloadable makes it much easier for small start-ups to get their games out there. They don't have to worry about publishers, boxes or retail stores, only the game.

[kedawa]

People want simple appliances. A computer *could* replace a DVD player, Blu-ray player, DVR, sound system, and home video game console, but people don't want to deal with the complexities of a computer. They just want to pop in a disc, hit play, and that's it.

I do all that on PC precisely because it's easier than using any of those appliances.
I can do just about everything I need to do with a simple mouse, while my friends have to juggle half a dozen remotes just to get their home theatre to behave itself.

[n20vette]

I know this wont happen because I like to think that microsoft would notice that this would be the end of xbox I would go back to playstation over this crap.

[G-Boobie]

I feel like I'm the only one with a long memory. This exact same rumor went around for the PS3 before it came out, and it turned out to be completely bunk.

I mentioned that earlier. We can blame Kotaku for this coming up again somehow.

HAY GUYS: this isn't happening. Not because Greg2600 is grumpy or anything, but because no one can afford to piss off Gamestop too much right now unless they're making money on their hardware right off the bat, and neither Sony or Microsoft roll that way. It'll happen sooner or later, but gradually, and not through brute force hardware lockouts, but through making downloadable games cheaper and more desirable than a disc from a store.

Who wants to bet money?

[WCP]

All I know is... If this ish really ends up happening, it's going to be one of those "Get ya popcorn Ready" type of moments!

I mean, the fallout from this thing will be very interesting. I will be disappointed for sure, but in a way, it will just be interesting to see how the gaming public at large reacts to it. How come Apple get's a free pass? That has to be what Microsoft is thinking about. Nobody can buy used Apple stuff, and they are probably envious of that. Still, how can Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, Sears, Kmart, Costco, GameStop and Toys R Us allow something like this to happen? You'd think those companies would refuse to stock their new console.

Plus, Microsoft has Windows 8 to sell. They need the retailers right now. As much as I'd love to see the fallout from a move like this, I just can't see it happening.

[Griking]

I mentioned that earlier. We can blame Kotaku for this coming up again somehow.

HAY GUYS: this isn't happening. Not because Greg2600 is grumpy or anything, but because no one can afford to piss off Gamestop too much right now unless they're making money on their hardware right off the bat, and neither Sony or Microsoft roll that way. It'll happen sooner or later, but gradually, and not through brute force hardware lockouts, but through making downloadable games cheaper and more desirable than a disc from a store.

Who wants to bet money?

If one of the next consoles went to direct distribution it would certainly suck for Gamestop but I really don't see any developer giving a shit about that. Its not like Gamestop would be needed to sell games anymore when anyone with high speed internet would be able to purchase any game that they wanted right from their couch. The develpers would make more money since they wouldn't need a middle man to sell their games any more and they wouldn't be competing with used game sales. And for the people without high speed internet, I'm sure that the console manufacturers would have some retailers still on board (ones that don't sell used games) where a person would be able to download a game for their console.


All I know is... If this ish really ends up happening, it's going to be one of those "Get ya popcorn Ready" type of moments!

I mean, the fallout from this thing will be very interesting. I will be disappointed for sure, but in a way, it will just be interesting to see how the gaming public at large reacts to it.

About 1/4 of them would hate it at first but would soon get used to it if they still wanted to play any of the new games.

[SegaAges]

Would lose millions of buyers.

Tell that to all of the Steam users and also all of the people who keep buying Call of Duty games, year after year, and paying for each and every single map pack even though they will charge you $15 per map pack.

If they want to get rid of the used game market (or make a dent in it), the solution is pretty damn simple, registration codes (you know, similar to cd keys for pc games). You don't have a registration code or your game is not registered, then you can't play it. Simple as that.

Until somebody can show me actual numbers, with sources, that getting rid of a huge chunk of the used game market will hurt the gaming industry, then I will agree that there is nothing wrong with trying to get rid of a huge chunk of the used gaming market for current gen games. If you truly like a game and want to support the developers, well for current gen of course, then buy it new. If not, you might as well pirate it, since that game was bought new once, and whether you buy it used or pirate it, the developer sees the same amount of money. I do not advocate piracy, but you also need to realize that developers get no money from you when you buy a used game from GameStop

Developers make money from new game sales, not used.

As for people who do not have their system connected to the internet, yeah, this is not 1997 anymore. Show me actual numbers, with sources, of the percentage of gamers who do not have internet, but have a current gen game console. Sure, there are probably a few, but I highly doubt it will even make a difference in sales because of how few people it truly is.

I can easily see something like reg codes or cd keys on next gen systems. You don't register it online, then you can't play it. Whether you personally do not like it, it will help out in multiple ways. Sure, piracy will still happen, there is no way to get rid of it completely, but I could see reg codes on consoles greatly reducing piracy (if done properly). More money in the hands of developers is always a plus.

As with taking a game over to a friend's house, well, the pc gamers have been dealing with that issue for awhile now (since many pc gamers can't do that either), but places like Steam seem to be doing just fine.

EDIT: Also, digital distribution is awesome and I can see that playing a much larger role in the next gen systems. DD means that developers are not losing money to big name publishers that will pump the games out. Sure, M$ or Sony will get a small cut of the money from it being DD, but so much more money will be placed directly in the hands of developers. Those studios you guys love that keep getting shut down by publishers, well if it is more of a DD system, those big name publishers would not have as much say in the games developed, which means that unless the developer themselves decide to shut down, more and more of the good ones will stick around

[Gamereviewgod]

Until somebody can show me actual numbers, with sources, that getting rid of a huge chunk of the used game market will hurt the gaming industry, then I will agree that there is nothing wrong with trying to get rid of a huge chunk of the used gaming market for current gen games.

Considering the industry has thrived and grown to unheard of numbers ($70 billion last year), I'd say used games are either crucial or have little effect on the actual publisher bottom line.

Trade-ins at GameStop keep the money in the gaming economy. They give you store credit to buy what? New games, in-store DLC, pre-orders, points cards, gift cards. That money doesn't go anywhere else. Take the ability away to sell/trade old games, and that money suddenly vanishes.

You can't run an entertainment industry, which in this case is the most expensive of all media, and expect people to keep coming up with all of this money. People do so because of GameStop and other used retailers.

If there is any struggle, it's been brought on by the publishers themselves who don't have the common sense to space out release schedules and keep expecting more from added content. There's only so much money to go around, more so in a dull economy, yet pubs blame GameStop for whatever woes they have.

[G-Boobie]

Considering the industry has thrived and grown to unheard of numbers ($70 billion last year), I'd say used games are either crucial or have little effect on the actual publisher bottom line.

Trade-ins at GameStop keep the money in the gaming economy. They give you store credit to buy what? New games, in-store DLC, pre-orders, points cards, gift cards. That money doesn't go anywhere else. Take the ability away to sell/trade old games, and that money suddenly vanishes.

You can't run an entertainment industry, which in this case is the most expensive of all media, and expect people to keep coming up with all of this money. People do so because of GameStop and other used retailers.

If there is any struggle, it's been brought on by the publishers themselves who don't have the common sense to space out release schedules and keep expecting more from added content. There's only so much money to go around, more so in a dull economy, yet pubs blame GameStop for whatever woes they have.

Absolutely. Well put.

I'll add this: Microsoft would be crazy to try this without buy in from Sony and Nintendo. They'd be throwing away all the gains that they've made this last console generation. Unless all three platform holders are in agreement to stick it to used game sales this way, it's not happening.

So yeah. Not happening. We'll have another round of rumors about his exact same thing whenever Sony decides to announce PS4.

[Griking]

Trade-ins at GameStop keep the money in the gaming economy. They give you store credit to buy what? New games, in-store DLC, pre-orders, points cards, gift cards. That money doesn't go anywhere else. Take the ability away to sell/trade old games, and that money suddenly vanishes.

Trade ins at Gamestop keep the money in Gamestop's economy, not the game industry's. If I trade in a game and use my credit to buy another used game it's having a zero impact for the gaming industry. The customer may like getting a used game at a discount. Gamestop sure loves it. The industry however wants to see you both die in a fire.

However if developers go digital distribution and lower their prices to what used copies of the games go for THEN the money will be put back into the gaming economy. But that's the big IF. Will distributors be greedy or will they keep their prices reasonable and offer regular sales like Steam does.

[Gamereviewgod]

Trade ins at Gamestop keep the money in Gamestop's economy, not the game industry's. If I trade in a game and use my credit to buy another used game it's having a zero impact for the gaming industry. The customer may like getting a used game at a discount. Gamestop sure loves it. The industry however wants to see you both die in a fire.

And GameStop's economy IS the central of the gaming economy. Just because trade-in value CAN be used for used sales doesn't mean it's not going towards new purchases, DLC, points cards, or a plethora of other possible financial game for publishers. Let the used game market expire and watch how quickly funds evaporate to purchase new games at $60 a piece. And even if a customer buys a used game, who is to say the money saved isn't turning into a revenue stream from DLC sales, gamerpics, downloadable spin-offs, or creating franchise loyalty? People buying used games are staying active consumers of this content. They continue to buy hardware, and they continue to buy games, new or used.

If the publishers truly hated GameStop, they'd stop using them as an outlet. Not only do they use the hell out of them, they work in special deals only availble via GS. Because of a percieved problem, the consumer is the one who ends up getting screwed.

[Griking]

And GameStop's economy IS the central of the gaming economy. Just because trade-in value CAN be used for used sales doesn't mean it's not going towards new purchases, DLC, points cards, or a plethora of other possible financial game for publishers.

Likewise just because trade in credit CAN be used towards new games, DLC, points cards doesn't mean that it's not just going towards used games. The fact is that when you pick up a new game off a shelf at a Gamestop the clerk at the counter is trained to ask if you'd like to purchase a used copy instead. Is this for the better of the industry?


Let the used game market expire and watch how quickly funds evaporate to purchase new games at $60 a piece.

Well that's the thing. As I said before developers have to agree to not be greedy about this. They need to lower the price point for these downloadable games. If a new game comes out and they sell it retail for $60 and you can but a used copy at Gamestop for $55 then developers would be smart to price the downloadable version of their game at under $55. Show the customer that they're seeing a saving by getting their games via digital distribution rather than paying the same and not getting a physical copy. And again, there needs to be regular sales like customers are used to seeing in retail stores and on Steam.


If the publishers truly hated GameStop, they'd stop using them as an outlet. Not only do they use the hell out of them, they work in special deals only availble via GS. Because of a percieved problem, the consumer is the one who ends up getting screwed.

Well, they are the largest game retailer ATM. Until these developers build up a digital download system that's available to the bulk of their customers then they unfortunately need to deal with the devil that is Gamestop.

[j_factor]

Well that's the thing. As I said before developers have to agree to not be greedy about this. They need to lower the price point for these downloadable games. If a new game comes out and they sell it retail for $60 and you can but a used copy at Gamestop for $55 then developers would be smart to price the downloadable version of their game at under $55. Show the customer that they're seeing a saving by getting their games via digital distribution rather than paying the same and not getting a physical copy. And again, there needs to be regular sales like customers are used to seeing in retail stores and on Steam.

People have been saying this for upwards of 10 years and it's just not happening. The point of digital distribution is not to save the consumer money. In fact, as digital distribution has made headway, games have gotten more expensive.

[Gamereviewgod]

Likewise just because trade in credit CAN be used towards new games, DLC, points cards doesn't mean that it's not just going towards used games. The fact is that when you pick up a new game off a shelf at a Gamestop the clerk at the counter is trained to ask if you'd like to purchase a used copy instead. Is this for the better of the industry?

I stand by statements that a used game is not an issue. Publishers have a mountain of revenue streams available to them. A used copy is a potential DLC sale, gamer pic sale, avatar item sale, XBLA/PSN spin-off, and more. What needs to convince the consumer is the game itself and making sure it's actually worth all of that investment. Most games today don't seem to be doing that.

The employees may be trained, but that doesn't mean the customer listens. I worked at a used game store in the early '00s and many people had this weird aversion to used products. They always thought there was something wrong with it. Not everyone is so quick to jump on the used product.

[Griking]

People have been saying this for upwards of 10 years and it's just not happening. The point of digital distribution is not to save the consumer money. In fact, as digital distribution has made headway, games have gotten more expensive.

That depends on the distributor.

Steam for example has 30%, 50% even 90% off specials on and off.

[Gamereviewgod]

That depends on the distributor.

Steam for example has 30%, 50% even 90% off specials on and off.

And that's the PC market without major console makers setting up pricing structures. PC gaming is entirely different beast.

I'll also note that I hate your animated signature... for some reason, I feel compelled to watch it every time I see it... twice. :)

[Jaruff]

No way this happens. The new rounds of antitrust lawsuits would be through the roof and the other hardware developers would jump on the opportunity to grab upset customers.

[Leo_A]

I really doubt if they impliment such a thing that it would be in violating any antitrust laws.

[WCP]

developers would be smart to price the downloadable version of their game at under $55. Show the customer that they're seeing a saving by getting their games via digital distribution rather than paying the same and not getting a physical copy. And again, there needs to be regular sales like customers are used to seeing in retail stores and on Steam.




Unfortunately, I just don't think Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo could ever have a marketplace that behaved liked Steam does. They will never have such drastic price reductions in their sales. The idea of selling games like Borderlands, Assassin's Creed 2, Need For Speed Hot Pursuit, Bulletstorm, Arkham Asylum, etc, etc, for only 5 bucks, is foreign to their way of thinking. Crysis 2 for $9.99. Witcher 2 for $9.99. Premiere games like that, going so cheap, so quickly, just isn't going to happen with these big 3 console manufacturers. The only reason that it's happening on PC, is because there is such rampant piracy, that one way publishers are dealing with it, is pricing their wares so low, during these short lived sales, that people that might have otherwise pirated it would rather just pay a measly $5 and get the legit version.

Piracy on the consoles probably won't be as easy and rampant, and Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo will have no impetus to get them to have such significant fire sales on their back catalog. If you look at the sales that Microsoft occasionlly does, and that PSN occasionally does, then that's pretty much what you can expect from them going forward. In other words, the premiere games aren't going below $19.99 and $14.99. You're just not going to see premiere games like Bulletstorm and Dead Space 2, selling for only 5 bucks.

[j_factor]

That depends on the distributor.

Steam for example has 30%, 50% even 90% off specials on and off.

Steam does have good deals sometimes. But, when Steam was getting off the ground, a typical (non-indie) new release was $10 cheaper, and that went up after Steam was firmly established. Steam rarely undercuts physical retail on price -- they undercut physical retail in other ways. Further, gamers are getting more and more nickle-and-dimed on DLC. Content that would've been expected to be free years ago now costs money, and content that might have cost a couple bucks now costs $10-15. They also seem to be deliberately de-emphasizing the familiar expansion pack type releases so that they can part stuff out and charge more.

I'm not saying this is all Steam's fault, but I don't think they've made PC gaming cheaper.

[camarotuner]

One question, don't recall seeing anyone bring this up yet but forgive me if I'm repeating...

let's pretend this happens. The xbox 3 (or whatever they call it) doesn't play used games. So Halo 4 comes out, then 5, then 6. You aren't an early adopter you waited till the 4th year to pick up your xbox 3 and now it's on sale and comes with extra free stuff after 2 price drops. Awesome for you. You love halo, want to play the new halo games, by the time 6 comes out it's very unlikely that 4 will still be in print. Actually lots and lots of stuff goes out of print really really quickly anymore. Very few games are still in print items 3-4 months after release. Does that mean you can't buy new copies, well not exactly, but it can be a serious pain in the butt to track them down at this point unless they went to best seller status or something. I'm seeing a major issue with this. Imagine if the 360 did this. Track down some of the those first year released 360 titles. It's doable but not easily. Definately not by walking into walmart, best buy, target, gamestop or any other regular retailer.

[WCP]

Steam does have good deals sometimes. But, when Steam was getting off the ground, a typical (non-indie) new release was $10 cheaper, and that went up after Steam was firmly established. Steam rarely undercuts physical retail on price -- they undercut physical retail in other ways. Further, gamers are getting more and more nickle-and-dimed on DLC. Content that would've been expected to be free years ago now costs money, and content that might have cost a couple bucks now costs $10-15. They also seem to be deliberately de-emphasizing the familiar expansion pack type releases so that they can part stuff out and charge more.

I'm not saying this is all Steam's fault, but I don't think they've made PC gaming cheaper.


For people with extreme patience, Steam can be an absolute Godsend to their wallets. Of course, this is only for a small percentage of the gaming population. Since, I happen to reside within that small percentage, it works out very nicely for me. PC games have gotten so cheap for me, that I won't consider buying ANY GAME priced over $5. Part of this, is that I have such a huge backlog of great games to play, that I just have zero need to buy anything unless it's so cheap that it would be ridiculous to not purchase it.

So, I've set a limit for myself of $5. In fact, games can be so cheap at times, that there are games for $5 that I don't even buy, because if I did, I would just have too many freaking games floating on my backlog list.


Of course, I'm talking about "patient" gamers. The type that are perfectly happy playing games from 2009 and 2010, even though it's 2012. I've noticed that if you're willing to stay about 2 years behind the current times, then you really NEVER have to pay more than $5 for your game, as long as you're patient and wait for the Steam sales, and the Amazon download sales, and the GamersGate sales, etc, etc. My biggest concern, is just how long is this dream situation of $5 games going to last? I'm just not sure that this is going to last forever. I would love it to, it makes PC gaming a more financially sound option, but I just don't see how this 5 dollar game trend can last. I mean, Steam makes plenty of money doing these various sales, but I just wonder how these publishers are willing to give away certain games for only 5 bucks. I guess 5 bucks is better than zero bucks, but still....

[Gameguy]

So, I've set a limit for myself of $5. In fact, games can be so cheap at times, that there are games for $5 that I don't even buy, because if I did, I would just have too many freaking games floating on my backlog list.
I'm pretty much like this with all games for just about any system, the only times I'd be willing to pay more is if a game is really valuable or it's a game I really want and it's still cheaper than the usual going rate. It's pretty much for the same reason as you, I already have enough to play so I don't see much need to spend much more than that. It's even getting a bit rare for me to really spend money on games at all, it's got to the point where I end up buying larger lots to get a game I want and I end up selling the extras to break even.

As for $5 PC games, there's not even much of a reason to stick to downloads only. Some physical copies are cheaper even when new.

Whispered World digital download-$13.63
http://www.amazon.com/Viva-Media-40546pered-World19-Whispered/dp/B004HW7KUU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1328065748&sr=8-2

Whispered World physical new copy-$4.00
http://www.amazon.com/Viva-Media-602-Whispered-World/dp/B003EEXYC0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328065748&sr=8-1

It's a bit weird but from the main search engine the physical copy is listed at $3.95 but from the actual page it's $4.00. I remember looking forward to this game when it was coming out but then I found out my PC doesn't meet the requirements to play it. It seems to have mixed reviews now too.

[j_factor]

For people with extreme patience, Steam can be an absolute Godsend to their wallets. Of course, this is only for a small percentage of the gaming population. Since, I happen to reside within that small percentage, it works out very nicely for me. PC games have gotten so cheap for me, that I won't consider buying ANY GAME priced over $5. Part of this, is that I have such a huge backlog of great games to play, that I just have zero need to buy anything unless it's so cheap that it would be ridiculous to not purchase it.

So, I've set a limit for myself of $5. In fact, games can be so cheap at times, that there are games for $5 that I don't even buy, because if I did, I would just have too many freaking games floating on my backlog list.


Of course, I'm talking about "patient" gamers. The type that are perfectly happy playing games from 2009 and 2010, even though it's 2012. I've noticed that if you're willing to stay about 2 years behind the current times, then you really NEVER have to pay more than $5 for your game, as long as you're patient and wait for the Steam sales, and the Amazon download sales, and the GamersGate sales, etc, etc. My biggest concern, is just how long is this dream situation of $5 games going to last? I'm just not sure that this is going to last forever. I would love it to, it makes PC gaming a more financially sound option, but I just don't see how this 5 dollar game trend can last. I mean, Steam makes plenty of money doing these various sales, but I just wonder how these publishers are willing to give away certain games for only 5 bucks. I guess 5 bucks is better than zero bucks, but still....

That's not really any different from retail, though. The only problem is that physical retail PC games are becoming less common.

[WCP]

That's not really any different from retail, though. The only problem is that physical retail PC games are becoming less common.

It's different than retail for console games. Sometimes you'll see a used game at GameStop going for super cheap ( I think Fable 2 is going for super cheap used right now ), or you'll see a former rental game at Blockbuster going for cheap during one of their sales, but other than that, you normally don't see brand new games below $9.99 . You also don't really see dirt cheap games on either Microsoft's or Sony's digital download services. Both Sony and Microsoft are selling full retail games for download via their services. I don't remember them ever selling former triple A games for a mere 5 bucks. That type of thing just doesn't happen, and I seriously doubt that it will happen anytime soon. This is the one thing that makes me dread the arrival of the digital download paradigm.

[The 1 2 P]

Both Sony and Microsoft are selling full retail games for download via their services. I don't remember them ever selling former triple A games for a mere 5 bucks. That type of thing just doesn't happen, and I seriously doubt that it will happen anytime soon. This is the one thing that makes me dread the arrival of the digital download paradigm.

I agree, we are most likely never going to get AAA $60 games on XBL and PSN for $10, not even after they've been out for years. Some platiunum and greatest hits titles have managed to get as low as $19.99 and that includes some AAA games but you could have gotten the physical versions for cheaper than the digital versions for the entire time the games have been out. Which is why I doubt I'd take part in a digital only console because the publishers would still try to charge $40-60 a game. The most I've ever paid for a digital-only copy is $10 and I have no interest in spending more than that. But luckily XBL has tons of sales so the majority of games I've bought have only been $2-$5 each.