Double Fine Adventure

[digitalpress]

I was thinking this was a MUCH bigger deal than a DP Servbot post. Already a huge fan, I had the coincidental pleasure of meeting Tim Schafer at the DICE Summit in Vegas on the very day that Double Fine Adventure's Kickstarter project hit 1 million dollars. This achievement is absolutely incredible.

The man is brilliant. I'm all in. And I hope all of us can be part of it.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure

At the very least, watch the video promoting the project. If you're still not sold on at least $15 for a point and click adventure by a proven genius of that genre then I'm not sure how you even got this far on this site, in this forum, on this post. It's history in the making. Can you just imagine what some of the larger game publishers are thinking right about now... or more importantly, what some of the smaller ones are thinking?

[G-Boobie]

I kicked in fifteen. Very excited!

[kupomogli]

Can you just imagine what some of the larger game publishers are thinking right about now... or more importantly, what some of the smaller ones are thinking?

I can only imagine.

"Begging your fans to fund your next game? Have you no shame, Tim Schafer?"

Whether it's complete garbage as was Brutal Legend, and anything after, or if it's good such as the Secret of Monkey Island, he's profiting off the dollars of the fanbase. It's complete profit and a risk that he doesn't even have to take. Sure he's a genius, a genius that's got a million or more of your dollars to do as much or as little as he pleases, but that's as far as being a genius as I'll say he is.

So no. Tim Schafer is no genius. He has made some good games, but that was in the past. As of this gen I've only played Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, and while Costume Quest received a huge amount of praise, both games earn a 1/5 in my opinion. I will say the story and music of Brutal Legend are the better parts in the game and if it was just a different game with the same storyline and music, then Brutal Legend would have been much better.

[G-Boobie]

I can only imagine.

"Begging your fans to fund your next game? Have you no shame, Tim Schafer?"

Whether it's complete garbage as was Brutal Legend, and anything after, or if it's good such as the Secret of Monkey Island, he's profiting off the dollars of the fanbase. It's complete profit and a risk that he doesn't even have to take. Sure he's a genius, a genius that's got a million or more of your dollars to do as much or as little as he pleases, but that's as far as being a genius as I'll say he is.

So no. Tim Schafer is no genius. He has made some good games, but that was in the past. As of this gen I've only played Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, and while Costume Quest received a huge amount of praise, both games earn a 1/5 in my opinion. I will say the story and music of Brutal Legend are the better parts in the game and if it was just a different game with the same storyline and music, then Brutal Legend would have been much better.

So you haven't played Trenched, Happy Action Theater, or Stacking?
They're excellent. Though Happy Action theater isn't really a "game": its more of an outlet for party tequila energy.

Also, Grim Fandango and Psychonauts give Schaefer the benefit of the doubt until the end of time. Brutal Legend was a miss: it was also his only miss. That's a much better percentage than most of the industry.

[JSoup]

My reactions:

*sees Tim Schafer*
Me: TAKE ALL MY MONEY.
*sees point-and-click adventure*
Me: Don't care any more. I'll pick the game up for $5 via HiB at some point.


On the other hand, if a few grand of that money can go to putting out the fix-it patch for Brutal Legend, getting us some more Costume Quest DLC and getting a HD remake of Psychonauts going, I'd be willing to pitch in.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Eh, considering that the traditional model is developers doing press/marketing and requesting your money after a game is finished so that they can attempt to re-coup development costs, I don't particularly see this as "begging".

They're going to ask for your money at some point, no?

While I've always appreciated Schafer's point of view as an artist, I think that the most interesting thing about this scenario isn't the fact that he's going to produce something else along the lines of his most memorable games, it's the fact that he is asking for money up-front from consumers instead of after-the-fact, essentially making them all "investors" in the process.

It's safe to say that prior to this single example the crowd-funding of an independent game hasn't been anywhere near as outrageously successful as this one, and if Schafer's pedigree wasn't attached to adventure games with the nostalgia-factor of Grim Fandango and Day of the Tenticle that this may not have been the slam-dunk, backboard-shattering success that this has proven to be (from a funding perspective anyway).

I won't fault Schafer Brutal Legend, because this project is about avoiding the pitfalls of production of a game like that. He lays out in the mission statement of his kickstarter, having a vision that he seeks to produce independent of any major studio involvement. So, no bosses at EA meddling with gameplay, graphics, setting deadlines that would otherwise sacrifice the quality of the work being done, etc.

The only risk in this scenario is directly disappointing the fans with the final product, but that appears to be a risk that Tim is fully willing to take, and the fans don't seem to have ANY fears that Tim will fail to deliver.

Risky and a gamble for all involved, but I have faith.

Seeing what Double-Fine has been capable of with a smaller budget and shorter dev cycle I think that he'll produce something memorable that is worth the modest cost of entry.

However, the most important thing, I think is that for the sake of the future successes of asking for "crowd sourcing" I hope that the game meets the quality standards of the majority of those who donated, otherwise this could easily serve to many as a huge reminder of why people shouldn't pay before they see the product.

[Tupin]

Hm, it's amazing that people will put so much into a concept. All the other Kickstarter projects I've seen get that much money had at least a prototype shown in the video. I know it will be amazing though, there hasn't been a high-profile point and click adventure game in years and all of Schafer's games are awesome.

I wonder if it will be Grim Fandango 2, or something new.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Hm, it's amazing that people will put so much into a concept. All the other Kickstarter projects I've seen get that much money had at least a prototype shown in the video. I know it will be amazing though, there hasn't been a high-profile point and click adventure game in years and all of Schafer's games are awesome.

I wonder if it will be Grim Fandango 2, or something new.

Yeah, if this wasn't Schafer and people weren't buying in based on his past work/pedigree it would totally warrant a clear picture of what people would be investing in.

This is something like if Joss Whedon said "Hey, I want to make another Firefly movie but the studios don't want to fund it and frankly I don't want them giving me notes. If anybody is interested you can donate money to the cause, if I hit my goal I'll guarantee each donator a copy of the movie on DVD when its finished." people already have really fond memories of the existing material by this creator so they're investing their good-will and faith in what has come before, not JUST because they like independent games or point and click adventures.

And where point and click adventures may not be "high-profile" in terms of being AAA GOTY blockbusters, TellTell games have certainly proven the viability of the genre not only on PCs but on consoles and portables.

Sam & Max, Monkey Island, Strongbad, and Back to the Future have all been met with modest (or more than that) critical and financial success.

[RCM]

I never understood the appeal of Tim Schafer/Double Fine's games, but hope other developers follow his/their lead and make really great and innovative games they'd have no hope of getting funding for otherwise.

[Bojay1997]

I can only imagine.

"Begging your fans to fund your next game? Have you no shame, Tim Schafer?"

Whether it's complete garbage as was Brutal Legend, and anything after, or if it's good such as the Secret of Monkey Island, he's profiting off the dollars of the fanbase. It's complete profit and a risk that he doesn't even have to take. Sure he's a genius, a genius that's got a million or more of your dollars to do as much or as little as he pleases, but that's as far as being a genius as I'll say he is.

So no. Tim Schafer is no genius. He has made some good games, but that was in the past. As of this gen I've only played Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, and while Costume Quest received a huge amount of praise, both games earn a 1/5 in my opinion. I will say the story and music of Brutal Legend are the better parts in the game and if it was just a different game with the same storyline and music, then Brutal Legend would have been much better.

I'm sorry, but how is this any different than the PSN+ service you were defending less than a week ago on this very forum? With PSN+, you are paying up front for the possibility that some good games will be provided as "free rentals" and that there will be other games that you would want to buy at a discount. There are no guarantees that you will ever like anything PSN+ gives you, but Sony still demands the money up front. Similarly, if people don't buy PSN+, they still can buy all of the games provided at a higher price.

Here, the concept is identical. People are under zero obligation to donate anything. In fact, the game will be for sale to the general public at some point whether they donate now or not.

I don't know if Tim Schafer is a genius, but he has created some amazing work over the years and lots of people seem to agree as they have pledged over a million dollars in just a few days. If you don't want to support the project, that's totally cool as it appears he doesn't need your help. This is no different than any other kickstarter project and frankly, I think it's a neat form of direct democracy wherein fans of niche genres of games can actually support developers who would otherwise have little incentive to create games appealing to less than a large swath of gamers.

As far as not delivering something, unlike yourself who hides on forums and is a very sad troll with no friends, if Tim Schaefer fails to deliver, his reputation and ability to make his living as a game designer will be massively damaged. As such, there is no way he doesn't deliver what he promised. Is the game guaranteed to be a classic? Nope, but that's not really the point. It's just too bad that you don't get it.

[Jorpho]

and the fans don't seem to have ANY fears that Tim will fail to deliver.I do. I think there's a far from insignificant chance that this game will be stuck in development hell forever, and the documentary will turn into something akin to Lost in La Mancha. Goodness knows Psychonauts nearly bit the dust.

Speaking of which, anyone who thinks Schafer can do no wrong needs to go back and look at the Meat Circus. And the ending sequence of Full Throttle.

[kupomogli]

I'm sorry, but how is this any different than the PSN+ service you were defending less than a week ago on this very forum? With PSN+, you are paying up front for the possibility that some good games will be provided as "free rentals" and that there will be other games that you would want to buy at a discount. There are no guarantees that you will ever like anything PSN+ gives you, but Sony still demands the money up front. Similarly, if people don't buy PSN+, they still can buy all of the games provided at a higher price.

With the PSN+ you know you're going to get atleast one or more PSN games, Minis, and PSX titles. So you're going to get something. There's no need to purchase it blindly when there's nothing you're interested in that current month. If you find something that's interesting one month that you want to get it, you can even wait until near the end of the month when the PS Blog displays what they're offering throughout the next month that might further spark your interest.

I don't pay for PSN+ and instead game share it with my friend who does purchase it, but $50 for a year of rentals is a great deal, especially considering the games that have been released during that time. Yes, you might not like any of the games released, but going by there being frequent months that there have been games I've enjoyed, then that's a good $50 well spent(if I did buy digital content.)

With this Tim Schafer game, you know absolutely nothing. It's also not a year of games for $50. It might be "one" of the worst games you've played this gen, such as Brutal Legend was, for the minimum donation. It might not even be a disc based game. It may be digital only and that minimum amount may cover the full price of a game that you happen to hate.

This is a well known developer begging for others to fund his work, whether it's good or not. Why would he have to beg if his latest works have been so successful. Why can't he just get funding from some publisher? Why doesn't he publish his own work, take the risk with his own money. Him not taking the risk makes him similar to Uwe Boll. Regardless whether the game bombs, or in Uwe Boll's case, the movie, he's still going to profit. One difference between him and Uwe Boll is that Boll hasn't actually had any quality work, while Schafer has.

[JSoup]

Goodness knows Psychonauts nearly bit the dust.

As did Brutal Legend.

And speaking of Brutal Legend, am I honestly the only person in the world who enjoyed it?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I do. I think there's a far from insignificant chance that this game will be stuck in development hell forever, and the documentary will turn into something akin to Lost in La Mancha. Goodness knows Psychonauts nearly bit the dust.

Speaking of which, anyone who thinks Schafer can do no wrong needs to go back and look at the Meat Circus. And the ending sequence of Full Throttle.

I suppose Gilliam and Schafer are cut from some similar cloth.

While I don't want to see that level of catastrophic failure, the documentary would certainly be worth watching!

[Jorpho]

This is a well known developer begging for others to fund his work, whether it's good or not. Why would he have to beg if his latest works have been so successful.I don't think they have been particularly successful, actually. (I guess a lot of people have played Psychonauts at this point, but probably only because it's been so inexpensive.)


Why can't he just get funding from some publisher?Because publishers have no interest in funding old-fashioned point-and-click adventure games, apparently.


Why doesn't he publish his own work, take the risk with his own money.Maybe he just doesn't have that kind of money to throw around?

[JSoup]

Because publishers have no interest in funding old-fashioned point-and-click adventure games, apparently.

People keep saying that, but I can't help but notice a little company called Telltale Games making them.

[Bojay1997]

People keep saying that, but I can't help but notice a little company called Telltale Games making them.

Although Telltale is well known among classic gamers and certain niche groups of gamers, it isn't exactly a blockbuster success and they aren't exactly risk takers developing their own IP. Their gross revenue in 2010 was only $10 million and with development costs, overhead, marketing, the high cost of licensing all the properties like BTTF, Jurassic Park, etc...I would be surprised if their net revenue or profit was much if anything. I can only imagine how much less their revenue would be if they switched from well known IP to something original like Tim Schaeffer is planning to do. Simply put, if point and click was a viable model for larger companies, they would all be doing it. Unfortunately it's not.

[Tron 2.0]

I just hope this fundriser leads to tim making a sequel to psychonauts.The game did afther all end off at a cliff hanger.

[Jorpho]

People keep saying that, but I can't help but notice a little company called Telltale Games making them.That's right, they are a little company. If it wasn't for their licenses they probably would have gone under long ago, I daresay.

[JSoup]

I just hope this fundriser leads to tim making a sequel to psychonauts.The game did afther all end off at a cliff hanger.

There's been a rumor going around that Notch has offered to fund Psychonauts 2.

[Tron 2.0]

There's been a rumor going around that Notch has offered to fund Psychonauts 2.
I heard about that the person behind minescraft is willing to fund it.Tim should take it then he would just need a publisher.

[JSoup]

The more I read about this project, the more I'm finding myself interested.


I heard about that the person behind minescraft is willing to fund it.Tim should take it then he would just need a publisher.

General discussion and all currently available information on this can be found here: http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/5566/

[Wraith Storm]

This is awesome news! I grew up with point and click adventure games and was sad to see their popularity diminish.

This also gives me hope that Bill Tiller with Autumn Moon Entertainment will follow suit and FINALLY finish the next installment of A Vampyre Story. I would donate to that cause in a heartbeat!

[Jorpho]

I heard about that the person behind minescraft is willing to fund it.Tim should take it then he would just need a publisher.Eh, all you really need is Steam/Desura/Gamersgate/etc these days, I reckon. Especially if you're making something with such niche (read: unmarketable) appeal as a Psychonauts sequel.

[DP ServBot]

http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/k4TeCE2jz4rc5ZAwUqFRlsTCyqc/0/di (http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/k4TeCE2jz4rc5ZAwUqFRlsTCyqc/0/da)
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New submitter Garth Smith writes "Tim Schafer has a video update for his crowdsourced project, Double Fine Adventure. Because of the nearly $2 million in funding, the budget is now large enough for language translations, voice acting, music, and more platforms. The XBox and PS3 are absent. I wonder what would the chances of a DRM-free release have been if funding had come from a traditional publisher?" http://a.fsdn.com/sd/twitter_icon_large.png (http://twitter.com/home?status=Double+Fine+Adventure+Will+Be+Availabl e+DRM+Free+For+IOS%2C+Android%3A+http%3A%2F%2Fbit. ly%2FzpJbdv) http://a.fsdn.com/sd/facebook_icon_large.png (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgames.slashdot.org%2Fsto ry%2F12%2F02%2F16%2F1942243%2Fdouble-fine-adventure-will-be-available-drm-free-for-ios-android%3Futm_source%3Dslashdot%26utm_medium%3Dfac ebook) http://www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png (http://plus.google.com/share?url=http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/02/16/1942243/double-fine-adventure-will-be-available-drm-free-for-ios-android?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=googleplus)

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[Jorpho]

Booya! Called it.
http://www.destructoid.com/double-fine-taking-broken-age-to-steam-early-access-257418.phtml

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Booya! Called it.
http://www.destructoid.com/double-fine-taking-broken-age-to-steam-early-access-257418.phtml

I see some people seem to be butt-hurt over Double Fine's decision to split the game (temporarily) to continue funding solutions, but I think that's a pretty elegant solution for the short-term.

Shafer is one of the good guys in this industry, and he's being pretty transparent about his mistakes here, so I can't be too hard on him. If we get a good game at the end of the day - and from what this Steam funded solution will hopefully provide, the split is only a temporary means-to-an-end, that's all that matters to me.

[Bojay1997]

I see some people seem to be butt-hurt over Double Fine's decision to split the game (temporarily) to continue funding solutions, but I think that's a pretty elegant solution for the short-term.

Shafer is one of the good guys in this industry, and he's being pretty transparent about his mistakes here, so I can't be too hard on him. If we get a good game at the end of the day - and from what this Steam funded solution will hopefully provide, the split is only a temporary means-to-an-end, that's all that matters to me.

As someone who supported the Kickstarter for this, I'm not super upset about it. Having said that, I feel disappointed mostly because the massive scope of the game that purportedly made this thing get larger than Shafer and company could handle with the financial and time resources they had is not what I signed up for. I feel like we were told this would be an old-school point and click adventure and something like that shouldn't be massive or require $3 million+. In fact, his own company turned out The Cave in far less time and for far less money and frankly, that's what I was expecting here.

While Shafer seems like a good guy, he is a lousy manager. I suspect that after this and the Massive Chalice Kickstarter are complete, the prospects of Shafer finding further financing for Double Fine are going to be next to nil. I know there are some vocal former supporters who think the timing of this announcement just after Massive Chalice ended was an intentional fraud on Shafer's part. I wouldn't go that far, but I would be very unlikely to support any future Kickstarters from Double Fine and the whole experience has made me more skeptical about what I support on Kickstarter in the games category.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

As someone who supported the Kickstarter for this, I'm not super upset about it. Having said that, I feel disappointed mostly because the massive scope of the game that purportedly made this thing get larger than Shafer and company could handle with the financial and time resources they had is not what I signed up for. I feel like we were told this would be an old-school point and click adventure and something like that shouldn't be massive or require $3 million+. In fact, his own company turned out The Cave in far less time and for far less money and frankly, that's what I was expecting here.

While Shafer seems like a good guy, he is a lousy manager. I suspect that after this and the Massive Chalice Kickstarter are complete, the prospects of Shafer finding further financing for Double Fine are going to be next to nil. I know there are some vocal former supporters who think the timing of this announcement just after Massive Chalice ended was an intentional fraud on Shafer's part. I wouldn't go that far, but I would be very unlikely to support any future Kickstarters from Double Fine and the whole experience has made me more skeptical about what I support on Kickstarter in the games category.

And that's certainly a reasonable position.

He's a great creative director, but, like most great artists working in a commercial environment, he needs a boss and people to ensure direction, deadlines and limits are put in place and maintained.

He's probably going to have to swing a publishing deal or get regular, non-crowd-funded backing for most things beyond Massive Chalice.

Or, who knows, maybe the majority share of crowd-funders won't be phased by this whole thing and Double-Fine will continue to be able to do Kickstarters.