Twisted Metal Designer Rails Against Storytelling Games [Slashdot]

[DP ServBot]

http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/YVkONfCLD1WIyJXWjVWlaP46OZM/0/di (http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/YVkONfCLD1WIyJXWjVWlaP46OZM/0/da)
http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/YVkONfCLD1WIyJXWjVWlaP46OZM/1/di (http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/YVkONfCLD1WIyJXWjVWlaP46OZM/1/da)
eldavojohn writes "Twisted Metal designer David Jaffe gave a DICE Summit presentation in which he argued against 'games that have been intentionally made from the ground up with the intent and purpose of telling a story or expressing a philosophy or giving a designer's narrative.' He went on to say essentially that it's a waste of time and resources when the focus should be on gameplay, not story. While some parts of his presentation are warmly welcomed by the gaming community (like his instructions for game execs to get a BS filter), this particular point has some unsurprising opponents. His argument against a 'cinematic narrative' was probably strongest with his comparison to the movie Saving Private Ryan, where Spielberg made the Normandy Beach invasion scene as close to a documentary as possible. The audience could sit back and appreciate that. But if you made a game where the player is in that position of the soldier then that historically accurate imagery and top shelf voice acting doesn't really matter, the only thing the player should be thinking is 'How the **** do I get to that rock? How do I get to the exit?' Is Jaffe right? Have game makers been 'seduced by the power and language of film' at the expense of gameplay?" http://a.fsdn.com/sd/twitter_icon_large.png (http://twitter.com/home?status=Twisted+Metal+Designer+Rails+Against+S torytelling+Games%3A+http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2Fw6ExXu) http://a.fsdn.com/sd/facebook_icon_large.png (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgames.slashdot.org%2Fsto ry%2F12%2F02%2F13%2F1943236%2Ftwisted-metal-designer-rails-against-storytelling-games%3Futm_source%3Dslashdot%26utm_medium%3Dfaceb ook) http://www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png (http://plus.google.com/share?url=http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/02/13/1943236/twisted-metal-designer-rails-against-storytelling-games?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=googleplus)

Read more of this story (http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/02/13/1943236/twisted-metal-designer-rails-against-storytelling-games?utm_source=rss1.0moreanon&utm_medium=feed) at Slashdot.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Slashdot/slashdotGames/~4/8NaTsMXCggg

More... (http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotGames/~3/8NaTsMXCggg/twisted-metal-designer-rails-against-storytelling-games)

[Emperor Megas]

That's got to be taken out of context or something, because as it reads that's one of the worst opinions I've heard on the matter, and from an industry insider to boot? To suggest that there's no place for story driven games with strong philosophical and narrative themes is ridiculous.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

That's got to be taken out of context or something, because as it reads that's one of the worst opinions I've heard on the matter, and from an industry insider to boot? To suggest that there's no place for story driven games with strong philosophical and narrative themes is ridiculous.

Especially considering that he was the game director for God of War which had an exceptionally rich story and cinematic narrative.

[Bojay1997]

It seems like as more and more news outlets report this story, it gets blown further and further out of proportion and distorts his point. As I read his argument, narrative based stories are best told in other mediums like books or movies and while story can be a critical component to a great game, the core still needs to be great gameplay. So, yes, I suppose if you think Heavy Rain is better as a game than it would be as a book or movie, you might have a bone to pick with Mr. Jaffee. Here is what I think is a better and less biased link to the central points of his argument.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/02/should-games-even-bother-trying-to-tell-a-meaningful-story.ars

[kupomogli]

It seems that Jaffe is complaining less about storytelling and more about how a lot of games that push too hard to have a storyline and sacrifice gameplay by doing so. Final Fantasy 13 for example.

[TonyTheTiger]

A game like Heavy Rain, being one extreme of the spectrum, is a polarizing game, no doubt. Even further you could go to Dragon's Lair, although I generally consider Heavy Rain just an extension of the foundation Dragon's Lair had established. I guess the issue is in which medium does a narrative that allows multiple results fit? Heavy Rain probably would have made a better movie...if you picked one avenue and went with it. In some ways I feel that Heavy Rain was actually hindered by having to adhere to certain video game principles (forced events just for the sake of player interaction) while also not adhering enough to others (no run button?). But, at the same time, it was a branching story so where else does it belong?

A movie like Clue with it's multiple endings doesn't exactly work for most films and only really worked for Clue given it was a screwball comedy based on a board game with the same gimmick. And choose your own adventure novels aren't exactly hot commodities. So from that perspective, if somebody does want to tell what is essentially a movie but at the same time give the audience control over the outcome, then video games are really the only option, even if it tends to fly in the face of what we consider traditional gaming. So even if they are polarizing games, I've yet to see a better option for that particular design.

[NE146]

Yknow.. I didn't read either but I've always been a big "screw story" kind of guy. I mean, I don't mind it all so much (e.g. a game like Final Fantasy IV has to have a little story in it) but for the most part it's absolutely correct. I'm playing a video GAME. So story is secondary. Heck often times when playing a story game I'm not even paying attention to it. e.g. Vandal Hearts and Shining Force, I had no idea what was going on... just pressing forward to the battles. Ditto for Call of Duty 4 single player (I didn't know you played as two separate people). And for that matter it's always been odd to having people bickering about a timeline in Zelda. Of all the things that don't matter to that particular game. LOL

Examples could go on and on...

[Bojay1997]

Yknow.. I didn't read either but I've always been a big "screw story" kind of guy. I mean, I don't mind it all so much (e.g. a game like Final Fantasy IV has to have a little story in it) but for the most part it's absolutely correct. I'm playing a video GAME. So story is secondary. Heck often times when playing a story game I'm not even paying attention to it. e.g. Vandal Hearts and Shining Force, I had no idea what was going on... just pressing forward to the battles. Ditto for Call of Duty 4 single player (I didn't know you played as two separate people). And for that matter it's always been odd to having people bickering about a timeline in Zelda. Of all the things that don't matter to that particular game. LOL

Examples could go on and on...

That's an interesting point. I was just thinking about all the games I have played over the years and despite playing every Halo to completion, I couldn't tell you a thing about the storyline other than you are a guy who has to kill aliens and get to the end of some overall objective. Similarly, I have played all of the Resistance games and the entire Uncharted trilogy and other than vague story points, I generally skip the cut scenes or don't pay attention and therefore I don't know too much about the respective game worlds other than you keep moving and take out enemies and solve some puzzles as needed. Heck, I couldn't even tell you much about all of the Mario games I have played and I still don't really know much about the Zelda storyline although I have played large portions of each of the games. Of course, I'm also someone who doesn't really pay too much attention to song lyrics, so maybe there are people for whom game story is more critical than it is for me.

[The 1 2 P]

Well story definitely matters to me in my gameplay experiences although I don't expect them to be very deep in a fps like Call of Duty. But for a game series like Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic, I played both of them completely because of the storylines. I don't even like rpg's but I was hooked and eventually immersed because of their rich narrative. So atleast for that example I'd make the arguement in support of strong narrative in video games. And Alan Wake is another example that comes to mind.

[Icarus Moonsight]

If I understand his position, I can't say I disagree. Games can be brought to life through story, or become contrived and crippled. Love that Final Fantasy was already mentioned as it saves me from hammering the second point by restating the obvious. It's a video game first. Some people in the industry and not, just seem to constantly forget that point. If it doesn't improve the project, cut it out.

[Tokimemofan]

It seems that Jaffe is complaining less about storytelling and more about how a lot of games that push too hard to have a storyline and sacrifice gameplay by doing so. Final Fantasy 13 for example.

Something that has been a problem with more than a few RPGs lately. It turns out that when that happens a game fails both classes.

[Icarus Moonsight]

A game failing to be a game because it wanted to fake a bullshit mantle of respectability, by being something other than a game... Art, book, movie, tool what-have-you. Been saying this for years, where's my PR people? Heads are gonna roll. Throw for save empty suits! LOL

[Junkyrdsalesman]

Personally the story is what drives me through most of my games. Whenever i connect to a game emotionally it's because i could relate to some theme portrayed, not because the gameplay was cool. Granted there are always exceptions. I think that Jaffe is talking about games like Uncharted where the whole premise is to make it feel like a movie, rather than denouncing stories in games altogether. Think about the storylines for the characters in TM black, those made the game worth playing to me. I think it all just depends on opinion.

[Aussie2B]

Well, even as a big fan of RPGs, I agree with the guy that developers shouldn't make telling a story their main goal in a game, and I think gamers who play games for their stories first and foremost are bananas. Good stories ADD to the experience; they don't MAKE the experience. If the gameplay sucks, no story is going to save it, and let's face it, most stories in video games aren't that great. Even RPGs, which get so much attention for their stories, usually have completely cliche characters and plotlines.