Building a Retro Gaming Club

[JTRyan]

Wanted to share this with the folks who enjoy retro gaming around here: http://www.indiegogo.com/Retro-Gamer-Club?a=447134

A friend and I have been making websites about games (and writing for other game sites) for a good while now, and we are interested in getting a Retro Gamer Club site started. We're trying to get on the crowdfunding bandwagon, so I thought I would share the link for people to take a look at what we are planning and let us know if it is something you are interested in, or consider donating to.

However, I'm not just looking for money here, I'm actually hoping for suggestions. Things you like about our proposal, things you think are missing, things you would add, etc. You can post them as comments on the Campaign itself, or just post them here in the thread, and I want to hear everything from everyone.

Also, even if you don't have any cash to spare or ideas for things we could add to the site, I'd like to get an idea of people who are interested in the idea of the club. We're hoping to have a good amount of buzz going by the time we launch so that we can have a decent size community, and it'd be great to hear that some of the folks around DigitPress are interested.

Thanks!

[VertigoProcess]

Just wondering how this club will differ from a forum site like DP? I mean besides adding the word club it sounds to me that you're just trying to start another forum site...

[treismac]

Just wondering how this club will differ from a forum site like DP? I mean besides adding the word club it sounds to me that you're just trying to start another forum site...

I'm with Vertigo on this one. Unless your "club" actually meets together in a physical location (i.e. not over the internet), how is it any different than Digital Press or any other forum?

I wish there was a retro video game club 'round where I live, actually. Whenever friends or guests play retro video games at my house, it is always a "novelty" thing, which saddens me slightly. I do enjoy seeing people playing Super Mario Bros. or Duck Hunt again for the first time in years, but the event is almost invariably followed with comments about how bad the graphics are, how they can't believe they ever played games like this, or other stupid comments that confirm that they fail to see the magic that I see. Eh...

[jcalder8]

Just wondering how this club will differ from a forum site like DP? I mean besides adding the word club it sounds to me that you're just trying to start another forum site...
You have to pay money for the club?
lmao

[VertigoProcess]

After reading the stuff on indiegogo (which is a amazing site for people that don't know about it, you should check out some of the stuff on there) I see so many flaws in your plan. Like how do you plan on providing people games to play as a community altogether at once? Were you planing making these games available for free? Because there are such things as copyright laws... if you're planing on paying for the rights of these games (monthly as it says) its gonna be a hefty bill. In which to pay you'll need to charge a fee to people that are using the site (which I might say no one is gonna wanna pay).

Besides that asking for money to start a forum site really isn't something id want to do, esp going to another forum site and asking for money when said forum site is being provided for free and the creators are paying out of pocket out of the goodness of their hearts...

Id suggest paying start up out of pocket and using ads to pay yourself back and cover operating cost and then once having a following asking for optional donations to get ride of the ads.

And I too have the problem with not having anyone to retro game with beside friends that want to play sonic for like 10 min when they come over and then get bored of it. Although I do have this site to thank since I do know of some people in my area that retro game.
Id suggest posting a thread in this forum looking to see who's in your area and then organizing your own meet up. This site has all the tools you need to start your own retro gaming club in your area, ya know?

[Polygon]

I would only be interested in joining some sort of club if there are physical meetings in my area.

[Collector_Gaming]

You have to pay money for the club?
lmao

sounds like a real club to me..

Just without this

http://www.destination360.com/north-america/us/nevada/las-vegas/images/s/lax-nightclub.jpg

PASS!

[swlovinist]

Four months ago, I started a local gaming club with a website

http://www.cowlitzgamers.com/

We meet at a local burger/arcade and every month we pick a theme of games to play and I bring stuff from my collection as well as bring TV sets to play on. It is open to the public. We plan to have shirts made some day, but the premise is to hang out, have fun, play games, and enjoy what this hobby is all about.

I would not call what you are doing a club.

[Compute]

I don't think I would join an online-only "club." I have enough forums to keep track of as it is. That said, I'd love to start/join something locally. A coin op club would be an awesome thing to gather about.

[VertigoProcess]

Four months ago, I started a local gaming club with a website

http://www.cowlitzgamers.com/

We meet at a local burger/arcade and every month we pick a theme of games to play and I bring stuff from my collection as well as bring TV sets to play on. It is open to the public. We plan to have shirts made some day, but the premise is to hang out, have fun, play games, and enjoy what this hobby is all about.

I would not call what you are doing a club.

I like this idea, im guessing you have a agreement with this burger arcade joint to let you bring in all this stuff?

Id be cool if we could start a section of this forum dedicated to people starting local meet ups like this.

[VideoGameRescue]

That sounds fun. It could help local video game stores. People forget to support private owners first. =[

[Collector_Gaming]

Id be cool if we could start a section of this forum dedicated to people starting local meet ups like this.
that would be cool
be like the good old days where you go out with your buddies to the arcade to chill out and play games and such.

car forums i am on have dedicated area sections and then split that off for meets and such and i can see this forum being able to do something like this.

Who wants to start a game meet in northern vermont ?!?!? :D

[JTRyan]

Perhaps the campaign doesn't explain things well enough, so I thought I'd clear a few things up for people.

1. You don't have to pay to join the club. We are trying to crowdfund the start up costs associated with creating the site, but you'll never have to pay to join it, that's insane. And pretty clear if you were to read either my original post or the campaign site, so I'll chalk that one up to skimming or reading comprehension issues, lol.

2. It isn't just a forum site...you can start a forum site for like $10 or less in 15 minutes. We wouldn't need to raise any money at all for that. :D RGC will be a full featured site that will have forums for people to meet up on, but the main draw is the site content itself. We'll be doing retrospectives for the games we are playing, showing the influences that the games had on the industry as a whole, getting interviews with classic game designers, and more. Basically a regular game site, but focusing specifically on retro games and having in depth features on whatever game or series the Club happens to be playing at the time. We'll also be having podcasts and videos, all the things that make a website...well, a website.

3. It would be awesome to do an actual, in person 'club', but for many people, it just isn't going to happen. A retro game fan is the odd man out these days in many places. The point of RGC is like an internet book club (they exist!) in that people play a certain amount each week (3 levels each week for a 12 level game, for example) and then get together to chat, jump on the forums, and join in on the podcasting to talk about the things they experienced during that specific stretch of time. As for getting the games, many people who are interested in such a thing will probably have loads of old games to play anyway. If not, we're trying to facilitate getting those games to people in the cheapest way possible, but if there was a game you weren't interested in owning, you just wouldn't play along with the group for the month. You could still see what people think about it, read the retrospectives and interviews and everything.

Basically, the idea is based on the 'Backlog' segment that 1UP and other sites have done, but with a focus on older games and a much more in depth look at the design process, influences etc. Hope that cleared up the idea for people a little bit. I can tell we don't have a lot of interest around here, but hey...at least I sparked the idea of people creating little clubs in their areas!

Anybody in Grand Rapids, MI wanna play some retro games?

[calthaer]

Hello, retro gaming website. I am a new user to your community and I have come here to advertise the fact that I am creating a site to compete with yours, and I would like to siphon off your users. Thank you, and give me money.

[JTRyan]

Hello, retro gaming website. I am a new user to your community and I have come here to advertise the fact that I am creating a site to compete with yours, and I would like to siphon off your users. Thank you, and give me money.

*sigh*

Despite the fact that the two ideas are not similar in any way? I highly doubt anyone would say "I can only go to one site about retro games, so I guess I had better decide which I choose!" It's a neat little idea that people really enjoyed when it was just a subcategory of our old website, so we decided to expand it a little and see if anyone was interested in playing some games and learning more about the history of them along the way.

And to be fair, I've been coming to DigitPress since I was like a child, I just don't bother using forums in most cases. Just wanted to share the idea with a robust community of retro gaming fans and get a feel for the interest/pick up some good ideas. Thanks for replying though, the internet doesn't have nearly enough snark on it, particularly where forums are concerned.

[Mat Growcott]

Hey folks, I'm Mat Growcott, joint partner in this along with Joe Ryan. I'm going to try to answer any concerns I can. If you don't want to donate, awesome, we're not expecting people to instantly love this idea just because we do, all I ask is that you keep an open mind and consider taking a look when we work things out.


Just wondering how this club will differ from a forum site like DP? I mean besides adding the word club it sounds to me that you're just trying to start another forum site...

A very good question and something we have to justify (since a lot of you have focussed on the club aspect of the title).

First, let's define club:

club/kləb/
Noun:
An association dedicated to a particular interest or activity.
A heavy stick with a thick end, esp. one used as a weapon

The club in the title refers to books clubs, as Joe said. The idea is to instantly bring up the idea of people sitting around and discussing a creative work. Of course, going by the definition above, it's perfectly fair to call it a club anyway.

Onto your actual question: the forum section of the site isn't going to differ a great deal from any other forum site. With that said, forums are the same almost universally and, ultimately, it doesn't matter which forum you go to but what its about and who's there. The important difference between the Retro Gamer Club forums and any other forum, I feel, is focus. I've taken a quick look around these forums and they're great, but there's so many different topics and conversations going on that it's impossible to take in everything.

Sure, I have no doubt that we'll offer social forums (perhaps even some form of instant messaging) and a forum dedicated to a wider retro topic, but the important point is that as much of the group as possible is playing the same game - seeing the same things as everybody else. What's important isn't that people are sitting around talking about these games, but that they're discussing them with their peers. Take, for instance, if somebody brand new came along to this forum and posted an 800 word essay on the significance behind Mario's main colour being red, how would the community react? It's for that sort of thing that we want to cultivate our community, although hopefully we'll stimulate more interesting conversation that that.

On top of that, the website will contain features about the chosen game, interviews, reviews, videos and diaries. We're not just playing these games together, we're dissecting them. It may be that you can get these things elsewhere, but I think we'll be one of the first, if not THE first, to bring them together in the way which we plan.


Like how do you plan on providing people games to play as a community altogether at once? Were you planing making these games available for free? Because there are such things as copyright laws... if you're planing on paying for the rights of these games (monthly as it says) its gonna be a hefty bill. In which to pay you'll need to charge a fee to people that are using the site (which I might say no one is gonna wanna pay).

We definitely won't be providing people with games to play - we WILL be seeking ways of getting exclusive discounts on applicable games, although this is in its early stages and I don't have exact details. On top of that, we don't expect everybody to play, or even try, every game, that's ridiculous. Games will be voted on by the community each month, so it'd be nice to think we'd keep everybody happy but the chances of keeping everybody around each month is 0%.

If you have these games, as many of the people interested in joining a website like this will have, then brilliant. As sleazy as it sounds, we're not going to ask too many questions about how people are playing these games though - that's up to them and they do whatever they do at their own risk - and the important thing on our end is that they participate in the discussion on the website and in the forums.


Id suggest paying start up out of pocket and using ads to pay yourself back and cover operating cost and then once having a following asking for optional donations to get ride of the ads.

It's a fair suggestion and something that we'll be doing to some extent whether we get the money from Kickstarter or not. Like any other kind of start-up business (not just another games blog), we need a good deal of initial funds. We figured we had nothing to lose from spreading this idea around for a couple of months and getting some backing, learning what people want, before going ahead and spending hundreds of dollars on something we really need a little more money for.

Don't get me wrong, we're willing to put our time and money into this project (neither Joe nor I will take any sort of wage from this until its profitable enough to do so), but we have certain expectations - a custom CMS, the ability to pay our writers for contributions - that we couldn't really do without funds directly for the project.


Hello, retro gaming website. I am a new user to your community and I have come here to advertise the fact that I am creating a site to compete with yours, and I would like to siphon off your users. Thank you, and give me money.

As charming as the way you worded this is, you have a point. Why SHOULD any of you people give money to an idea by people you don't know and that seems like something you can already do?

Simply put, you shouldn't. We're not going to starve if you don't give us your money, we're not here to give you a hard-sell. Joe posted here because he thought some of you might like the idea and want to get in on the ground floor, we didn't expect anything to come of it especially. As it happens, as a group you've brought up some good points and you've not only made us think about our project but justify parts of it, which is great.

Of course, if you want to help by donating: thank you, and give me money.

---

A couple of other things:

Some of you have mentioned the online/real life thing. Ideally, we'd like to think our members could get together to do this but, ultimately, its something that's easy enough to organise without our help. Creating some sort of actual club would be great, but it lacks the practicality of doing something online, especially with all the options that brings.

I think I answered almost every major point, but I'm happy to answer questions, complaints or whatever as best as I possibly can. As I say over on the project page, at the very least we want people to enjoy this project as much as we do and we can only realize that goal if people challenge us and get us to explain ourselves. Perhaps someone will see the answer, nod their heads and come join us when we launch.

[tpugmire]

I would only be interested in joining some sort of club if there are physical meetings in my area.

There's nothing in Utah that I'm aware of, maybe we could start...

[Bojay1997]

Hey folks, I'm Mat Growcott, joint partner in this along with Joe Ryan. I'm going to try to answer any concerns I can. If you don't want to donate, awesome, we're not expecting people to instantly love this idea just because we do, all I ask is that you keep an open mind and consider taking a look when we work things out.



A very good question and something we have to justify (since a lot of you have focussed on the club aspect of the title).

First, let's define club:

club/kləb/
Noun:
An association dedicated to a particular interest or activity.
A heavy stick with a thick end, esp. one used as a weapon

The club in the title refers to books clubs, as Joe said. The idea is to instantly bring up the idea of people sitting around and discussing a creative work. Of course, going by the definition above, it's perfectly fair to call it a club anyway.

Onto your actual question: the forum section of the site isn't going to differ a great deal from any other forum site. With that said, forums are the same almost universally and, ultimately, it doesn't matter which forum you go to but what its about and who's there. The important difference between the Retro Gamer Club forums and any other forum, I feel, is focus. I've taken a quick look around these forums and they're great, but there's so many different topics and conversations going on that it's impossible to take in everything.

Sure, I have no doubt that we'll offer social forums (perhaps even some form of instant messaging) and a forum dedicated to a wider retro topic, but the important point is that as much of the group as possible is playing the same game - seeing the same things as everybody else. What's important isn't that people are sitting around talking about these games, but that they're discussing them with their peers. Take, for instance, if somebody brand new came along to this forum and posted an 800 word essay on the significance behind Mario's main colour being red, how would the community react? It's for that sort of thing that we want to cultivate our community, although hopefully we'll stimulate more interesting conversation that that.

On top of that, the website will contain features about the chosen game, interviews, reviews, videos and diaries. We're not just playing these games together, we're dissecting them. It may be that you can get these things elsewhere, but I think we'll be one of the first, if not THE first, to bring them together in the way which we plan.



We definitely won't be providing people with games to play - we WILL be seeking ways of getting exclusive discounts on applicable games, although this is in its early stages and I don't have exact details. On top of that, we don't expect everybody to play, or even try, every game, that's ridiculous. Games will be voted on by the community each month, so it'd be nice to think we'd keep everybody happy but the chances of keeping everybody around each month is 0%.

If you have these games, as many of the people interested in joining a website like this will have, then brilliant. As sleazy as it sounds, we're not going to ask too many questions about how people are playing these games though - that's up to them and they do whatever they do at their own risk - and the important thing on our end is that they participate in the discussion on the website and in the forums.



It's a fair suggestion and something that we'll be doing to some extent whether we get the money from Kickstarter or not. Like any other kind of start-up business (not just another games blog), we need a good deal of initial funds. We figured we had nothing to lose from spreading this idea around for a couple of months and getting some backing, learning what people want, before going ahead and spending hundreds of dollars on something we really need a little more money for.

Don't get me wrong, we're willing to put our time and money into this project (neither Joe nor I will take any sort of wage from this until its profitable enough to do so), but we have certain expectations - a custom CMS, the ability to pay our writers for contributions - that we couldn't really do without funds directly for the project.



As charming as the way you worded this is, you have a point. Why SHOULD any of you people give money to an idea by people you don't know and that seems like something you can already do?

Simply put, you shouldn't. We're not going to starve if you don't give us your money, we're not here to give you a hard-sell. Joe posted here because he thought some of you might like the idea and want to get in on the ground floor, we didn't expect anything to come of it especially. As it happens, as a group you've brought up some good points and you've not only made us think about our project but justify parts of it, which is great.

Of course, if you want to help by donating: thank you, and give me money.

---

A couple of other things:

Some of you have mentioned the online/real life thing. Ideally, we'd like to think our members could get together to do this but, ultimately, its something that's easy enough to organise without our help. Creating some sort of actual club would be great, but it lacks the practicality of doing something online, especially with all the options that brings.

I think I answered almost every major point, but I'm happy to answer questions, complaints or whatever as best as I possibly can. As I say over on the project page, at the very least we want people to enjoy this project as much as we do and we can only realize that goal if people challenge us and get us to explain ourselves. Perhaps someone will see the answer, nod their heads and come join us when we launch.

I'm sorry, but for all the "information" you have just posted, you still haven't explained how this is any different than literally dozens of other websites already out there, none of which are begging people they don't know for money. If you are serious about this idea, you and your partner should pool your financial resources and build a site. If people find it valuable enough, I'm sure they would consider donating at that point. Coming here with an unoriginal idea asking for money when you and your partner aren't even well known or established members of the community (I love that he posted he has been coming here for years and yet somehow posted from a brand new account) is the epitome of naivety and frankly, a good sign that your idea will never come to anything meaning anyone who donates is throwing money down a hole.

[Mat Growcott]

I'm sorry, but for all the "information" you have just posted, you still haven't explained how this is any different than literally dozens of other websites already out there, none of which are begging people they don't know for money. If you are serious about this idea, you and your partner should pool your financial resources and build a site. If people find it valuable enough, I'm sure they would consider donating at that point. Coming here with an unoriginal idea asking for money when you and your partner aren't even well known or established members of the community (I love that he posted he has been coming here for years and yet somehow posted from a brand new account) is the epitome of naivety and frankly, a good sign that your idea will never come to anything meaning anyone who donates is throwing money down a hole.

Actually, I've explained more than once how it would be different; for the sake of saving people time, I'll explain again. With a focus on a single game and while encouraging people to post longer, more detailed posts, the community section of the site will be dedicated to intelligent discussion of well-known and rarer classics of the past. Focussing on a single title at a time will mean that we can enjoy dissecting the game at a much slower pace. This would be but a single facet of the site, used by general community to discuss the monthly title. Feel free to share with us sites that you feel have implemented the full range of things we've mentioned in this thread, though, because I think perhaps you'll be surprised.

I also don't especially like the term begging. Kickstarter/Indiegogo is full of ideas, some which you'd think are good, some which you'd think are bad. There's a kid on there trying to get people to give him money so he can pay his way into the E3 convention, THAT is begging. Please see the difference: we are after small donations towards something that the people who donate may enjoy. If you're not one of those people, as you've made clear, that's fine, don't donate.

We're not trying to put one over you, matey, I'm trying to be as reasonable and open as I possibly can and I can't say it more clearly than: if you don't want to donate, don't donate.

[VertigoProcess]

At this point id strongly suggest you pay your site start ups out of pocket like everyone else and stop insulting the intelligence of the good people of dp(we really don't need a dictionary.com definition of the word "club"). If your site is worth visiting then you can make your money back (although you mention that you guys had a site in the past, which ill take to mean it failed). All it seems you're doing here at this point is gaining a negative reputation with one of the bigger and wider ranging retro gaming communities

[Mat Growcott]

At this point id strongly suggest you pay your site start ups out of pocket like everyone else and stop insulting the intelligence of the good people of dp(we really don't need a dictionary.com definition of the word "club"). If your site is worth visiting then you can make your money back (although you mention that you guys had a site in the past, which ill take to mean it failed). All it seems you're doing here at this point is gaining a negative reputation with one of the bigger and wider ranging retro gaming communities

The exact definition of a word is important, making sure you're on the same page for an explanation makes it much easier in the long run. Nothing to do with this community's collective intelligence, but a foundation from which to launch that explanation. Several people questioned use of the word club and if we're not all thinking the same thing from the get-go, there's no point in continuing.

Other than that, I fully appreciate your point. While I'm happy to explain our ideas and discuss what makes us different, there's no point in going round in circles if we are just going round in circles. I want to answer a few points and then I'll check back for extra questions or whatever after, but defending the idea for the sake of defending the idea isn't entirely what this is about.

Yup, we had a mildly successful site a couple of years ago. Both Joe and I are professional writers both within the games industry and in other areas, which is partly why the site failed. Working for practically nothing is never as fun as working and getting paid incredibly well for it. The Retro Gamer Club was a popular enough part of the old site that bringing it back is high on our priority list. Successful sites, especially in the games industry, don't happen because you're a really good writer and try really hard. A retro-based site especially is practically doomed to failure, even something fairly unique, without some major backing (no news, likely well-discussed features).

That's why a quick look at Retro Gaming on Google brings at least a couple of retro sites that haven't seen any action for as much as three-four years. We feel a community-based site will ensure that the project doesn't die through lack of use; we also think, from experience, that there are people out there ready to join a community like this.

We want donation-based backing so to avoid pitching to various media groups and to have more control over the project (choosing advertising types, handling everything internally) and it's something that will, in some regard, pay off.

Again, I want to thank everybody that has posted and we hope to see you after the launch later this year.

[VertigoProcess]

there's no point in going round in circles

as working and getting paid incredibly well for it.

First off this is called retro gaming round table, haha

Secondly you just stated that you and your partner there get paid incredibly well working in the game industry and you still can't shell out the 2500 bucks out of pocket to start this site? you don't need to go to other people if you're getting large pay checks, just save a few bucks here or there if you don't have a problem with money...

[Mat Growcott]

First off this is called retro gaming round table, haha

Secondly you just stated that you and your partner there get paid incredibly well working in the game industry and you still can't shell out the 2500 bucks out of pocket to start this site? you don't need to go to other people if you're getting large pay checks, just save a few bucks here or there if you don't have a problem with money...

How much we earn doesn't really come into it. We have families to support, pets to feed, PlayStation Vitas to purchase and bills to pay.

Seriously though, we have money set aside both from private contributors and from our own funds, not necessarily enough to cover everything we want (hence this whole thing). We set the perfect amount to keep us going for long enough that if something happens and we can't get advertising or whatever, we can still run a site that we and our community can be proud of. We also get to keep almost everything donated if we come nowhere near that amount, and we can put anything to good use. This is an attempt to push independence, but the existence of the site by no means relies on finding enough people willing to part with a couple of dollars on IndieGoGo.

How much polish we can bring to the table, on the other hand, relies entirely on how many people we can find willing to part with a couple of dollars on IndieGoGo.

[Bojay1997]

Actually, I've explained more than once how it would be different; for the sake of saving people time, I'll explain again. With a focus on a single game and while encouraging people to post longer, more detailed posts, the community section of the site will be dedicated to intelligent discussion of well-known and rarer classics of the past. Focussing on a single title at a time will mean that we can enjoy dissecting the game at a much slower pace. This would be but a single facet of the site, used by general community to discuss the monthly title. Feel free to share with us sites that you feel have implemented the full range of things we've mentioned in this thread, though, because I think perhaps you'll be surprised.

I also don't especially like the term begging. Kickstarter/Indiegogo is full of ideas, some which you'd think are good, some which you'd think are bad. There's a kid on there trying to get people to give him money so he can pay his way into the E3 convention, THAT is begging. Please see the difference: we are after small donations towards something that the people who donate may enjoy. If you're not one of those people, as you've made clear, that's fine, don't donate.

We're not trying to put one over you, matey, I'm trying to be as reasonable and open as I possibly can and I can't say it more clearly than: if you don't want to donate, don't donate.

It's odd, I've been involved in the DP community since it was just a fanzine and most of the other classic gaming websites since the early Internet days and I've never heard of you or your partner. I went ahead and Googled you and all I see are some short articles on various lesser known video game news websites. I guess it's a big world and it's possible I missed your work, but if you're hoping to attract support, it might be helpful to provide some specific information about your previous work and how you have contributed previously to the classic gaming community.

I guess I also disagree with your premise. While there is always room for great new retro game websites, there are already plenty of very popular and successful ones out there that cover everything you are thinking of doing. While DP might have declined slightly in recent years, sites like Atari Age, Nintendo Age and dozens of others are growing daily.

As for gettng more in depth on one game, there are topics here and elsewhere that address just that sort of specificity. I know on several sites I'm involved with there are playthroughs or games of the week and members of the community often will play the same game or provide their own reviews of one particular game. For example, Nintendo Age does a weekly or monthly game where they invite everyone to play and then everyone posts impressions, high scores, reviews, etc...Atari Age does a very similar thing. I guess I don't see any difference between that and what you're proposing.

As far as Kickstarter or other group funding tools, while they are certainly available for ideas regardless of merit, if you want people to provide funding, you need to either have a reputation with the people you are approaching or a very fleshed out idea. You have shown up here with neither one.

At the end of the day, every single classic gaming site I'm aware of including this very site have always been based on the model of the owner paying the start-up costs and then members contributing later if they feel it's appropriate. Asking people to fund your website is ridiculous, especially since none of us know you and what you're proposing is already something that could be done very easily by just establishing a subforum or even a topic here or elsewhere. I do have to say that I'm not sure if it's intentional, but defining terms and otherwise talking down to people is not a good way to attract support. Everyone here is well educated and pretty savvy about how Kickstarter and websites work. You on the other hand didn't even have the common sense to build a reputation here by participating and contributing for a while before hitting us all up for financial support. Pretty embarassing and unprofessional if you ask me.

[Mat Growcott]

It's odd, I've been involved in the DP community since it was just a fanzine and most of the other classic gaming websites since the early Internet days and I've never heard of you or your partner. I went ahead and Googled you and all I see are some short articles on various lesser known video game news websites. I guess it's a big world and it's possible I missed your work, but if you're hoping to attract support, it might be helpful to provide some specific information about your previous work and how you have contributed previously to the classic gaming community.

While I'm absolutely flattered that somebody so convinced that we're here to attempt to steal your money and run off into the night would take the time to Google us, it's hardly a sure-fire way of finding our body of work. Those lesser-known sites, lesser-known by everybody but the thousands of people who use them, have enough people coming in that collectively they have brought me in the majority of my wage for the last three years. I also work in print and occasionally am paid for editorial services.

My being a professional writer is not dependant on you not having missed me, but on my being paid to write. While it's a good point and something we'll consider adding to the IndieGoGo page, it's not something I'm about to write at length here.


I guess I also disagree with your premise. While there is always room for great new retro game websites, there are already plenty of very popular and successful ones out there that cover everything you are thinking of doing. While DP might have declined slightly in recent years, sites like Atari Age, Nintendo Age and dozens of others are growing daily.

As for gettng more in depth on one game, there are topics here and elsewhere that address just that sort of specificity. I know on several sites I'm involved with there are playthroughs or games of the week and members of the community often will play the same game or provide their own reviews of one particular game. For example, Nintendo Age does a weekly or monthly game where they invite everyone to play and then everyone posts impressions, high scores, reviews, etc...Atari Age does a very similar thing. I guess I don't see any difference between that and what you're proposing.


Either you're really suggesting that we only build upon ideas that nobody has ever done or you're honestly suggesting that those sites do everything we are proposing. Let's use our original comparison with a book club. Sure, there are websites dedicated to reading books and I bet when the last Harry Potter book came out, they were all reading it on the forums. There would have been reviews, impressions, even people sharing ideas. But you'd have people posting about different bits, some people revealing spoilers, another person saying how it's nothing but "crap," people arguing over favourite characters.

Meanwhile, I'd say if a book club looked at the same novel, there would be guided discussion so that everybody is on the same page, encouragement to discuss at length themes and subtext, decisions over phrase and evolution of character. We're not talking about a community where we compare high scores for a month (although leader boards is something that we've done before and will do again at Retro Gamer Club) and talk about how better things were in the good old days.

Talking directly about the sites you suggested: Nintendo Age might have a very complete community (I'll be honest when I say I haven't really taken too much time looking over that section of it, but I'll definitely take a look as we're developing ideas further) but the front page itself is very lacking. It can go months between posts. I'd say from the names of the forums that it's more about collecting than enjoying the games and there's nothing specifically clashing with what we've said we're doing in this thread. The same could be said for Atari Age. Even if they do some of the stuff we do, they are completely and utterly different to what we're proposing.

If you use these as your lead examples of sites already doing what we're doing, you really don't get the idea.


As far as Kickstarter or other group funding tools, while they are certainly available for ideas regardless of merit, if you want people to provide funding, you need to either have a reputation with the people you are approaching or a very fleshed out idea. You have shown up here with neither one.

I'm here, I'm answering questions and concerns. As Joe mentions in that first post, we're here as much for suggestions and ideas as much as we are for funding. As a retro community, you are our potential readers, potential return users, and even this early in our plan you're incredibly important to us. I have to disagree that the idea is not fleshed out, it was implemented on a site that received over 1500 users daily throughout that implementation and was popular during that period of time. The site as a whole wasn't bringing in enough people to warrant our continued efforts but acted as a nice pilot for us to grow from.

Like I say, I'm here to explain whatever you want explained if you feel the idea isn't fleshed out. I can't build a reputation magically - I'd never been to this site before yesterday when Joe linked me this thread - and I appreciate your being defensive. Before you go AH-HA, I don't really see the difference. If I'd posted here every day for the last five years, would it mean you'd suddenly love our idea?

All I can do is explain where we're coming from and I don't mind addressing any issues. I'm an open book, go ahead and ask what you want.


At the end of the day, every single classic gaming site I'm aware of including this very site have always been based on the model of the owner paying the start-up costs and then members contributing later if they feel it's appropriate. Asking people to fund your website is ridiculous, especially since none of us know you and what you're proposing is already something that could be done very easily by just establishing a subforum or even a topic here or elsewhere. I do have to say that I'm not sure if it's intentional, but defining terms and otherwise talking down to people is not a good way to attract support. Everyone here is well educated and pretty savvy about how Kickstarter and websites work. You on the other hand didn't even have the common sense to build a reputation here by participating and contributing for a while before hitting us all up for financial support. Pretty embarassing and unprofessional if you ask me.

I hate to repeat myself so soon, but if you honestly think everything we've suggested can be fit into a sub-forum and you plan to continue telling us how to run this thing, you really need to go ahead and read things again. This isn't a forum, it's a site-wide experience taking in everything that works in communities such as these and adding it to everything that works about other, more mainstream sites. If it's so easily done, link us to somewhere that is doing it. As for the website funding thing, you'll have read my earlier reply about avoiding pitching to groups who could finance it and want a degree of control. If you've never heard of people doing that, I'm surprised, as it's very commonplace.

[calthaer]

Stop bumping this guy's thread; just let it die. All that arguing with them does for them is bump their advertisement up to the top of the page.