Unreleased SNES Game - The Shadow

[Gunstar_Hero UK]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140711315701&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT#ht_850wt_959

any SNES experts see this on the bay? predictions?

[Kitsune Sniper]

That SCREAMS repro or pirate to me. Especially because of that stupid looking label.

I am not an expert, but that's what my gut is telling me. Or maybe it was the hot sauce I had during breakfast.

[Steven]

Couple quick thoughts:

1. PowerPak FTW
2. The Shadow sucks
3. BS Out of Bounds Golf -- now that's an unreleased gem worth playing

[markusman64ds]

Couple quick thoughts:

1. PowerPak FTW
2. The Shadow sucks
3. BS Out of Bounds Golf -- now that's an unreleased gem worth playing

Off topic, but when I was young I thought FTW meant F**ks the World.

[Shulamana]

Off topic, but when I was young I thought FTW meant F**ks the World.

Up until the around 2003 that's what I saw it used as all the time.

[Steven]

Off topic, but when I was young I thought FTW meant F**ks the World.

Same here, actually. It was becauze of Taz(z) from the old ECW/WWF days. His FTW meant Eff the World.

[djshok]

Totally a repro, gamereproductions.com has been making this one for a while now. Also, look at how crappy the sticker looks, it's just a screenshot with some text over it. They didn't even try.

[badinsults]

I'd have to say that is a reproduction, no way anyone would make a label like that for a prototype during the SNES era. Or at least I have never seen anyone use a colour image of the gameplay on the label like that. The Shadow is an unreleased game, but it was leaked years ago. I have been unable to find the source, though.

[xelement5x]

I like how the stickers over the edges of the cart give him an incentive to not try and open it and show pictures of the PCB. At least they outright say they don't know if it's a pirate, proto, or repro.

[Parodius Duh!]

It is not a reproduction. It is a South American Pirate. I have owned Final Fight, Spiderman the Lethal Foes, and The Shadow (with different label art). These are made by the same company. There is a warning label molded into the actual cart plastic or no warning there at all, and the slots are factory (or basement) molded, not cut into the SFC style cartridge case. I suggest everyone stays away as these carts have severe problems with freezing and crashing during any moment of the game. Definitely get a reproduction made with a nice label if you want this game, and it be guaranteed to work. Especially if this auction goes for more than 20 dollars....

[badinsults]

I've always struggled to understand the distinction between a pirate and a reproduction, except that a reproduction requires the sacrifice of another game to be made.

[Drixxel]

I've always struggled to understand the distinction between a pirate and a reproduction, except that a reproduction requires the sacrifice of another game to be made.

Sure, it's a bit of a grey area as the copyright holder isn't seeing a penny from their sale but I think the differences between them are real and reasonable. One is the work of a hobbyist (repro) and one is the work of a larger scale manufacturer (pirate), special order vs. mass production. Add in that reproductions typically refer to unreleased games or games without an official localization, consider that they're being assembled and sold well after the retail life of the console and you have established them as a different creature than a pirate.

[ProgrammingAce]

One is the work of a hobbyist (repro) and one is the work of a larger scale manufacturer (pirate), special order vs. mass production.

Once you create an entire "business" around making repros (particularly if you have a website, marketing, reviews, etc), it stops being a simple little hobby and turns right into piracy. The turning point is when you start making a profit, really.

[Parodius Duh!]

also most repros done by hand by a single guy, you can tell easily....tons of wiring, soldering, etc....

a mass produced pirate almost looks exact to what a factory produced board from nintendo would look like, nice and clean with only the chips socketed in, no wires going from here to there, no soldering, etc...All pirates are mass produced in a factory, just like official carts. The one major difference is in recent years the pirates have stopped using actual rom chips for the cheaper and much more faultier, glob-top method.

[Drixxel]

Once you create an entire "business" around making repros (particularly if you have a website, marketing, reviews, etc), it stops being a simple little hobby and turns right into piracy. The turning point is when you start making a profit, really.

I partially agree with that, to be making a business from the production and sale of large quantities of repros is a step towards a "piracy!" label being slapped on the operation but we're still talking mainly unreleased/fan translated/prototype stuff here. A repro of Star Fox 2 sold privately vs. a pirate of Super Mario Advance 4 that the buyer may not have realized was a fraud, there's a big difference here as far as the timeliness and lost sales opportunities for the copyright holder(s).

[skaar]

No, you're just rationalizing piracy.

[borgingryu]

Hi folks :) well I'm from South America, Argentina, here in the 90's, piracy was great, I remember that had original SNES games, as well as pirates, many.
that cartridge is treated much like a pirate game or as we named Superfamiclone, there appears a reproduction, especially the label and the back of the cartridge, it is visible that is pirated, it's rare to see that game, here in my country, see pirated games like Street Fighter V SNES or those cartridges 8 in 1, is normal.
But if we look at the difference of a pirate to a reproduction cartridge, there are differences, a repro is a craft, which assimilates to be original, a pirate game, it's obvious that is pirated.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I partially agree with that, to be making a business from the production and sale of large quantities of repros is a step towards a "piracy!" label being slapped on the operation but we're still talking mainly unreleased/fan translated/prototype stuff here.FYI, a lot of fan translators are not okay with people making repros and profiting off their work. Myself included.

As far as I'm concerned they're just as bad as big pirate operations if not worse. We didn't do this stuff so someone could make a buck off of it.

[Drixxel]

No, you're just rationalizing piracy.

What I'm trying to illustrate is that not all instances of piracy, at least as they relate to video gaming, are equally damaging to the IP owner and not every case needs to be lumped together. Has anyone with any legitimate claim to The Shadow for SNES (Ocean, Universal, the estate of Walter B. Gibson, etc.) ever seen a dime from the game since its planned release in 1994? It hasn't found and will probably never find its way to retail and, if not for the highly unlikely event that the game materializes as a purchasable download on VC/XBLA/PSN/etc., the profit bearing potential of the project will forever go unrealized. The same could be said for any number of unreleased games.

The owner of the IP is obviously entitled to clear rights as to how their property be used, with enforceable (and ludicrously dire) legal consequences for transgressors. I would argue, however, that this is a pointless level of protection for a game like The Shadow that never has, and predictably never will, be a source of revenue for anyone that actually holds title to it in the markets it was intended for sale. This is a similar situation for all unreleased and largely unmarketable prototypes. This is a separate situation than pirate GBA carts posing as the real deal on eBay. All are acts of piracy but their impacts are different, just because it is definable as piracy does not make it evil.


FYI, a lot of fan translators are not okay with people making repros and profiting off their work. Myself included.

As far as I'm concerned they're just as bad as big pirate operations if not worse. We didn't do this stuff so someone could make a buck off of it.

That's a complicated situation where fan translators and their deliberately profitless contributions to an IP for the sake of the gaming community are being taken advantage of -- it corrupts the good intentions of the translator when a physical copy is sold at a handsome profit. Even so, I don't think the fan translator has any real protection here and little is different about the situation for the actual IP owner.

It's worth considering that adamant protectors of copyright would argue that modifying a game's code to include altered text or a new translation is itself infringement. The fan translator is subsequently unable to lay any claim to their work, apart from a "c'mon, don't be a dick" request, when the IP is further abused by the sale of a pirate or repro. This makes for an interesting piracy scenario now that there is a third party involved in the transaction, the volunteer individual or group who has made a charitable addition to the game in the form of an illegal translation. The inclusion of the fan translation into the game has arguably, and perhaps inadvertantly, created a market for the reproduction cart.

[GarrettCRW]

We're on the cusp of a Super NES flash cart that can play EVERY SINGLE GAME KNOWN FOR THE SYSTEM. Justifying reproductions for the Super NES at this point is complete and utter stupidity.

[Gameguy]

What I'm trying to illustrate is that not all instances of piracy, at least as they relate to video gaming, are equally damaging to the IP owner and not every case needs to be lumped together. Has anyone with any legitimate claim to The Shadow for SNES (Ocean, Universal, the estate of Walter B. Gibson, etc.) ever seen a dime from the game since its planned release in 1994? It hasn't found and will probably never find its way to retail and, if not for the highly unlikely event that the game materializes as a purchasable download on VC/XBLA/PSN/etc., the profit bearing potential of the project will forever go unrealized. The same could be said for any number of unreleased games.
It's still a form of piracy, more like bootleg than counterfeit. Bootleg often means items that aren't officially available in any form but are still made available without proper permission, like with bootleg music albums featuring live recordings that aren't officially available by the artists. I just don't get why people care what these game carts are being called, why do they have to be called a reproduction instead of a bootleg?

How can it really be called a reproduction when the item being made never existed in the first place? Still the makers of these carts don't like calling them pirates or bootlegs, if you call them that they might start to cry. I like it when the people selling those carts say they're not making a profit, they're just charging "for the materials and the time to make it". What do they think charging for their time is? That's profit, like how working at a job pays you a wage per hour meaning being paid for your time. If they only charged for the materials then I wouldn't care, but once you charge for your time you're making a profit.

[Drixxel]

Gameguy, yeah, I agree that "bootleg" is altogether more accurate a word for what is politely referred to as a reproduction. Games that were modified without the consent of the copyright holder, shelved indefinitely or unfinished, finding their way into the physical world through grey-to-black market means -- that sounds like bootlegging. It may be happening a decade or two after the intended release of the thing, the repro makers may genuinely be charging dollars an hour for their work after materials and the rightful owner(s) of the IP may have zero interest in taking legal action but it's still, technically, bootlegging. Bootlegging carries negative connotations, obviously, so I can understand why repro makers prefer the (somewhat illogical, as you pointed out) term "reproduction" to describe their work.

And yes, GarrettCRW, the existence of flash carts with ever increasing compatibility renders any moral or legal argument surrounding reproductions practically obsolete. With that in mind, the timeless battle over the legality of the distribution & usage of ROMs is due for a flare up.

[Leo_A]

We're on the cusp of a Super NES flash cart that can play EVERY SINGLE GAME KNOWN FOR THE SYSTEM. Justifying reproductions for the Super NES at this point is complete and utter stupidity.

The SD2SNES isn't going to have 100% compatibility and will be expensive and perhaps limited in availability. And some people want an actual cartridge with a nice label and perhaps a box and manual for the fancier projects (Reproductions don't just exist to allow you to play the game on real hardware).

They will still have their place even with the SD2SNES and other similar products. I see no harm in that (And no difference legally, piracy is piracy and the law doesn't care if it's flash memory or a eprom).

[borgingryu]

I think as EverDrive Flashcard SD2Snes user or are products that venefician lot, SD2SNES can run games that do not exist. But it's still piracy, and also a reproduction, we are violating a legal software modifying its original creation, in short, is worse than a commercial game pirate, since this was programmed and for x reason, nobody paid them nothing for their work

[BeaglePuss]

How can it really be called a reproduction when the item being made never existed in the first place? Still the makers of these carts don't like calling them pirates or bootlegs, if you call them that they might start to cry.

I make what I've always referred to as "Reproductions" for the Sega Genesis. They're most definitely pirates though, and you can free to call them that if you'd like, so long as people keep buying them that is (and they will). In many cases they're translations/domestications of existing titles, which is why I've used reproductions as a moniker. Again, call them "Rape Pills," I don't care as long as people keep buying them (did I mention that they will?).




I like it when the people selling those carts say they're not making a profit, they're just charging "for the materials and the time to make it".


For Genesis stuff, I make them for two reasons. The first reason is profit. No doubt about that. The second reason is I find them kind of fun to make. It's the perfect combination: Make some fun-money to supplement my video game collection and do something productive/fun with my down time.

I will also say that there are times when the "Materials and time" line is completely true. The NES stuff I've done had always been of prototypes I've purchased. With every release I've done (and by release I mean mass-pirating) for the NES, I never broke even when factoring in the initial purchase of the game. It helped to offset the original buy, but not completely negate it.

As for game pirating, bootlegging, reproduction, being illegal.... It is. But so are speeding, jaywalking, and pot smoking. The fact that people get so outraged over the reproduction of 20+ year old abandonware is something that always surprises me.

[Gameguy]

I don't really mind that these carts are being made, if something isn't officially available then I'll be happy that someone is making it available for other people to enjoy. I just dislike how a great number of people who are making them claim them to be more legit than they really are, like they somehow aren't pirates because the company wouldn't be making money on them anyway. Or how they aren't making any money on them at all when selling fan translations for $60+ when they were downloading the ROMs for free off the net. It's that type of attitude that just bugs me, not that all of the people making them are like that.

It just reminds me of one of the custodians from my high school, he got offended when he was called a janitor, caretaker, or custodian. I have no idea what he wanted to be called but he always got upset by this, when a teacher asked somebody to call one(like me) I never wanted to talk to this guy. I could never say my teacher asked me to get a janitor/custodian or he'd get angry, and I had no idea what else to call him cause everybody called these guys janitors or custodians. It's just irritating.

[RP2A03]

It just reminds me of one of the custodians from my high school, he got offended when he was called a janitor, caretaker, or custodian. I have no idea what he wanted to be called but he always got upset by this, when a teacher asked somebody to call one(like me) I never wanted to talk to this guy. I could never say my teacher asked me to get a janitor/custodian or he'd get angry, and I had no idea what else to call him cause everybody called these guys janitors or custodians. It's just irritating.

"Cleaning technician".

[megasdkirby]

There is only one solution to piracy. While making repros is illegal, I recommend dumping the ROM and asking 2K monies as a "fundraiser" and not release it until the "fundraiser" is a success. I mean, it's only fair, since the owner spent so much on the game; they should get "some" of their money back as they are helping the community at a "loss". That is definitely NOT illegal and really helps the gaming scene. It helps the community as a whole, as it proves that they are in it, not for the ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR, but to help others.

I know many from NintendoAge will chime in to prove I am right...queue DreamTR in 3, 2, 1...