Fez dev sez Japanese games suck.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Wow. I was interested in his game, but his closeminded comments just ensured I'll never buy it.


A standing ovation for the movie itself set the tone for an open and positive discussion about indie games with the audience, yet when an unknown Japanese developer took to the mic to ask a question, the mood visibly turned.

The Japanese developer praised the movie and said he was pleased to see how many independent developers had been inspired by games such as Super Mario Bros and Zelda since their childhood.

But when he asked what the panel thought of modern Japanese video games, Phil Fish (pictured) immediately replied “your games just suck” – a comment that sparked an audible reaction from the crowd, though some were cheering.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/40061/GDC-Japanese-dev-mocked-your-games-suck

His ego got to him before he even released his fucking game. WOW.

[joshnickerson]

My humble response to Mr. Fish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU2mn_S0kls&feature=related

[kupomogli]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/kupomogli/fez-picture.gif

[moggles]

Well, if I was as ugly as Phil Fish, I'd probably hurl idiotic abuse at people too.

Must be tough for him, all that pent up sexual frustration, constant bullying, and now he's got a little fame and finds himself in a (false) position of power.

Poor guy.

[Oobgarm]

Think about it, though. Modern games? Outside of the few genre-making or high profile titles, can you say that all Japanese games are worthy of lavish praise? He didn't word that right, I think.

The 18-gazillion copycat games based around whatever shonen anime is the current flavor? Most are throwaway garbage. It's like the Wii, only on an exponentially larger scale. There are great titles, some decent ones, but a ton of crap, too.

It's the same in every reigon. I can easily understand why someone would say American games suck, and I'd not take offense to it.

[Jorpho]

His ego got to him before he even released his fucking game. WOW.Heh. I would not be at all surprised if the game vanished into eblivion, really; this is the first vaguely-related news I've heard about it in years.

Then again, there was a really long gap between the first time I saw Limbo and when that was finally released.

[Nebagram]

Sad thing is, I'm really really looking forward to Fez. I wonder how many memes Mr. Fish will generate before it eventually gets released?

[Emperor Megas]

What's Fez? I've never heard of it.

[Parodius Duh!]

cant say Ive ever heard of Fez either....who the hell is Phil Fish? and for the record, I only play Japanese games, American games is what sucks!

[Emperor Megas]

cant say Ive ever heard of Fez either....who the hell is Phil Fish? and for the record, I only play Japanese games, American games is what sucks!There are great Eastern and Western games. Some of my favorite games these past few generations have been Western games, but in general, I still prefer Japanese stye games, and all things considered, I'd rather play a mediocre Japanese game than a mediocre Western one. I'm just a fan of the Japanese style, always have been. I know that Japanese games are losing their audience (especially abroad), but I'm one of the hold outs who still love the types/style of games I did when I was younger. I know I'm in the minority, but I don't care much about the status quo.

[klausien]

I don't care if this guy's game is great, he's a disresprectful <insert insult of choice>. While I do agree that many of the modern multi-million dollar Japanese games fail to connect with American audiences for many different reasons, and the old guard of the 8 -32 Bit eras are in serious decline, the Japanese almost single-handedly resurrected video games from the dust bin of history. They have also been responsible for almost every true innovation in gaming since the mid-1980's. The Japanese developer may have been being a bit proud in pointing out to him that their games are really just based on old Japanese ideas, but this guy's response was just completely out of line.

[RCM]

Japan doesn't dominate anymore, and in comparison to what they used to be and mean to the industry, they do kinda suck. Too bad a lot of "indie games" (whatever that truly means) seem to emulate the best of what Japan used to offer.

But I agree, let's see how good and original his game is first. If it's what I think it'll be, he should try making something amazing before he runs his mouth.

[Tupin]

He's criticizing Japanese game developers for a lack of creativity, and he's making yet another retro-inspired platformer.

He did do a great job of embarrassing himself in front of his peers, very professional. :roll:

A good game is a good game, regardless of what country makes it. Same goes for bad.

[Emperor Megas]

But I agree, let's see how good and original his game is first. If it's what I think it'll be, he should try making something amazing before he runs his mouth.I don't care how good his games are, honestly, he should try using a little tact before he opens his mouth. There's a time and a place for everything, and I'm having a hard time understanding how this could have ever been an appropriate reply given the venue. Perhaps the setting was more lax than the article illustrates, or the vibe was very casual and his comment was in jest. I'm open to the possibility that it could have been more innocent than it sounds, but if a follow up comment about a tweet he supposedly made afterwards is accurate (where he basically restated the same thing, apologetically), then this guy just seems like an asshole, period.

[Kitsune Sniper]

He's criticizing Japanese game developers for a lack of creativity, and he's making yet another retro-inspired platformer.

He did do a great job of embarrassing himself in front of his peers, very professional. :roll:

A good game is a good game, regardless of what country makes it. Same goes for bad.

As far as I'm concerned, he embarassed himself in front of real developers. Since, you know, it's been like five years and he hasn't even released his goddamn game.

[The 1 2 P]

Japan doesn't dominate anymore, and in comparison to what they used to be and mean to the industry, they do kinda suck.

The only reason I can't say that all modern Japanese games suck is because I still enjoy the current crop of fighting games from Japan, mainly Tekken, Soul Calibur and DOA. But if those three games didn't exist than I'd probably share a similiar sentiment. As you pointed out, Japanese games aren't nearly as prominent as they once were and the majority of games I have enjoyed most this generation were made from somewhere other than Japan. Japanese games as a whole just don't seem nearly as innovative or fun to me as they were back during the 8 and 16 bit days.

[NayusDante]

To a large extent, the guy is right. Modern-era Japanese games are just awkward by western standards, and the charm of the 90s is lost when you add full voice and mocap. Even Nintendo's stuff is starting to feel a little distant.

If you watch Japanese sale charts, you'll see that they're into a lot of really lame stuff like shonen anime and virtual girlfriends. However, they still have stuff like Metal Gear, fighting games, and Armored Core. Those are solid core-focused games that also leverage stylized art direction, which is what was so great about Japanese games in the first place. The real problem is that those games are the exceptions. Most of the stuff they put out appeals to distinctly modern Japanese tastes, and they're ignoring that overlap we had in the 90s.

[Famidrive-16]

He's criticizing Japanese game developers for a lack of creativity, and he's making yet another retro-inspired platformer.


For real.

That style was cute several years back, now it's been beaten to death more times than I can count.

[Jorpho]

Come now, the release of Cave Story+ on Steam suggests it's not dead yet. And Fez does at least bring something vaguely novel to the table.

[RCM]

I don't care how good his games are, honestly, he should try using a little tact before he opens his mouth. There's a time and a place for everything, and I'm having a hard time understanding how this could have ever been an appropriate reply given the venue. Perhaps the setting was more lax than the article illustrates, or the vibe was very casual and his comment was in jest. I'm open to the possibility that it could have been more innocent than it sounds, but if a follow up comment about a tweet he supposedly made afterwards is accurate (where he basically restated the same thing, apologetically), then this guy just seems like an asshole, period.

I wasn't there, but maybe he felt that was the right time and place. We're all talking about his comments, him and his game. Seems pretty smart to me.

[Genesaturn]

I thought this incident was rather tasteless and not well thought out at all - NO, not all Japanese games are great - not now and not ever - but they still produce some of my favorites and I've always floated more towards Japanese games than Western style games. It's obvious he has an opinion and he was just a dick about letting it be known. Way to be a dick. dick.

[Emperor Megas]

I wasn't there, but maybe he felt that was the right time and place. We're all talking about his comments, him and his game. Seems pretty smart to me.I don't follow much gaming press, but usually when I hear about someone making asinine, insulting, or overreaching comments, it's not something that makes gamers flock to their product. I understand the whole there no such thing as bad press thing, but he's an indie game developer, not a Hollywood 'It girl'.

[kedawa]

Didn't someone from Capcom pretty much say the same thing a few years ago?

[calthaer]

Keiji Inafune:
http://www.industrygamers.com/news/keiji-inafune-japanese-gaming-industry-is-over-done-finished/

As for Phil Fish: he may have been acting quite boorishly, but that doesn't mean he's completely wrong.

[Aussie2B]

The modern Japanese game industry certainly has its problems, but they're not uniquely Japanese problems. They're issues that are plaguing the industry as a whole. At least Japan seems to produce a slightly more varied assortment of games. They still make shmups, fighters, platformers, etc. etc., while, in my eyes, American developers, outside of the low-budget indie projects that I personally have no interest in, have only more and more narrowed their creations, to the point where just about everything is a FPS, sports game, racer (and not the fun arcade-y types that Japan creates), or open-ended sandbox-style game. Japan also makes games with all sorts of visual styles, from super colorful and cutesy to gritty and dark, while US developers seem to be in a permanent love affair with brown and grey.

Anyway, never heard of Fez or Fish before, and his comments have done nothing to make me take any interest in his work.

[Kitsune Sniper]

You know, it's funny. Considering the large ratio of console players here, I would've thought you guys would be more aware of Fez since it's going to be an XBLA exclusive game.

Then again, it IS five years old.

[The 1 2 P]

You know, it's funny. Considering the large ratio of console players here, I would've thought you guys would be more aware of Fez since it's going to be an XBLA exclusive game.

I don't really follow the Indie game scene that much outside of a few novelties. Thats not to say that there aren't any good ones on XBLA or XBLIG, as I do check out demos from time to time. It's just that theres so much other good stuff on there that making time for it all is more than alittle impossible.

Back on topic, quite a few prominent Japanese developers have expressed similiar opinions about the current state of Japanese gaming over the last 5 years or so. From what I recall they seem to believe that Japan isn't the innovator it once was and are pretty much stuck in the past(which I agree with to a certain point). They have also been strongly encouraging the younger/newer Japanese developers to start thinking outside the box in order to bring some fresher experiences to Japanese gaming. I don't think Japanese games will be as popular as they once were during earlier generations but theres definitely still a place for them in most gamers libraries, including my own. I mean, where else am I going to find the perfect mix of edutainment hentai? Only in Japan of course.

[calthaer]

At least Japan seems to produce a slightly more varied assortment of games...while, in my eyes, American developers, outside of the low-budget indie projects that I personally have no interest in...

The fact that you just threw out all the indie games (which is comprising an ever-greater part of American gaming) means that you're discounting quite a few American games when you say "Japan produces a more varied assortment."

It's like you just took town X and Y (X has a Wal-Mart with three types of pies, Y has a grocery store with two types of pies and a small bakery with 35 different types of pies) and said: "Town X has slightly more choices because I don't care about that small bakery in town Y and their grocery store is lame."

[Berserker]

I've been aware of Fez for some years now. I hope it doesn't stay an XBLA exclusive, because I'd like to try it.

EDIT: Here's some gameplay footage for those not familiar with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWUU0vvWLRo

[Aussie2B]

That analogy doesn't quite work.

There is no unfair advantage because I'm comparing large publishers versus large publishers. I don't need to count Japanese doujin games to swing it in favor of Japan. If I have to include American indie games to swing it in favor of the US, that already proves the weakness in the mainstream American game industry.

Personally, I don't have interest in indie games because, except for incredibly rare exceptions, I don't take my systems online and I only buy games released on a physical medium. Plus from what exposure I've had to American indie gaming, it seems like the indie scene consists largely of "art house" games and retro throwbacks. The former games tend to be pretentious and not very fun, and the latter are just derivative. If I was to get into indie gaming, I'd probably be more inclined to check out the doujin scene and play a Touhou game or something.

[Tupin]

For real.

That style was cute several years back, now it's been beaten to death more times than I can count.

To be fair, if it would have been released when it was supposed to be, it would have been one of the first. But in 2010? No, and especially not in 2012.

[Berserker]

It's not at all difficult to dismiss indie games as little more than retro rehashes and hipster bullshit. I'm glad I didn't though, because modern gaming would now seem to me rather dismal without them.

[Kitsune Sniper]

And now he's all "I'm sorry, all this hate is getting to me" on Twitter.

And his game won another award.

Yech.

[Griking]

He was definitely disrespectful but you know what, it kind of annoys me as well when people make claims like "The Japan games industry – which to many is the spiritual home of the modern games". I'm sorry but the gaming industry was just fine before the Japanese came along and "rescued us". The classic era was the first era of gaming and of course mistakes were made but for the most part they were in marketing, not design. The NES may have revitalized the home console market in the US in the 80s but gaming was still alive and well on computers of the time.


While I do agree that many of the modern multi-million dollar Japanese games fail to connect with American audiences for many different reasons, and the old guard of the 8 -32 Bit eras are in serious decline, the Japanese almost single-handedly resurrected video games from the dust bin of history. They have also been responsible for almost every true innovation in gaming since the mid-1980's.

Again, I strongly disagree but humor me, what true innovations in gaming are you giving them credit for. I'm not saying that many of their games weren't innovative but you seem to insinuate that they were the only ones coming out with innovative stuff.

[G-Boobie]

And now he's all "I'm sorry, all this hate is getting to me" on Twitter.

And his game won another award.

Yech.

He clearly has no filter, and he might be a tool, but his game looks hot to death. If we based media awards and purchases purely on the personalities of their creators, then there would never be another awards show ever for anything, and more importantly, my book, bluray, and music shelves would be completely empty. So that's that.

What people are really upset about has nothing to do with how they feel in regards to the insult done to the Japanese game industry: they're upset that their OWN tastes have been indirectly called out. To that I say: who cares? You like what you like and the opinion of one developer shouldn't bug you this much. If by chance you are experiencing nerd rage because the honor of the Japanese game industry has been sullied, relax. They're big boys and they made Valkyria Chronicles and Deadly Premonition. They can take care of themselves.

[Press_Start]

He's right. Japan games do suck.....all my money. :hail:

But, srsly, there's a real hunger for good games especially on the American side (i.e. Muramana, Catherine, Demon/Dark Souls, etc.) but Japan has really underperformed this gen, imo, especially RPGs. Idk if it's the economy, fear of risk and failure, no creative drive, or overshadowed by the sheer sales of Western FPS, but Japan needs to innovate to capture that audience and not spend time mass producing stale-oatmeal copies of mish-mash generic stereotypical clones of successful franchises that you yourselves created.

IOW, Japan, stop making Steve's!!!

[Jorpho]

And now he's all "I'm sorry, all this hate is getting to me" on Twitter.

And his game won another award.

Yech.That's it! Maybe this is just a viciously clever marketing gimmick. Next there will be a secret hidden boss in the game that disparages the Japanese gaming industry, and it will be all clever and viral and stuff, amirite?

(How does a game that does not actually exist win an award, anyway?)

[Emperor Megas]

(How does a game that does not actually exist [or hasn't been released, anyway] win an award, anyway?)This is what I was wondering. :|

[calthaer]

Jonathan Blow, the guy behind Braid, agrees with Fish's idea, although not necessarily his delivery. Relevant comments start at 4:00 and go through the rest of the interview:

http://www.gamespot.com/events/gdc-2012/video.html?sid=6365133

Note: before the 4 minute mark, there's an intriguing discussion about how useful the term "fun" is when discussing or comparing gameplay experiences.

[The 1 2 P]

(How does a game that does not actually exist win an award, anyway?)


This is what I was wondering. :|

This has gone on for quite some time actually. A big portion of the E3 awards are given out to games that have yet to release, sometimes given to them a whole 2+ years before they ever hit store shelves. They are basically handed out based on the potential of their pre-build/alpha/beta/demo versions. Hell, even Duke Nukem Forever kept winning vaporware awards for most of the years it didn't come out.

[Emperor Megas]

This has gone on for quite some time actually. A big portion of the E3 awards are given out to games that have yet to release, sometimes given to them a whole 2+ years before they ever hit store shelves. They are basically handed out based on the potential of their pre-build/alpha/beta/demo versions. Hell, even Duke Nukem Forever kept winning vaporware awards for most of the years it didn't come out.That seems ridiculous. :|

[Griking]

Jonathan Blow, the guy behind Braid, agrees with Fish's idea, although not necessarily his delivery. Relevant comments start at 4:00 and go through the rest of the interview:

http://www.gamespot.com/events/gdc-2012/video.html?sid=6365133

Note: before the 4 minute mark, there's an intriguing discussion about how useful the term "fun" is when discussing or comparing gameplay experiences.


Yeah but unlike the Fez guy who was just rude this guy makes some really intelligent points without insulting anyone.

[kedawa]

I don't think some hipsterish indie bum, whose claim to fame is developing yet another uninspired 'retro' platformer, is in any position to knock the entire modern japanese game industry.

[Griking]

I don't think some hipsterish indie bum, whose claim to fame is developing yet another uninspired 'retro' platformer, is in any position to knock the entire modern japanese game industry.



from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_%28video_game%29


Upon its release to Xbox Live Arcade, Braid was met with unanimously positive reviews, with an aggregate review score of 93% at Metacritic, making it the top-rated Xbox Live Arcade game and the 10th highest-rated Xbox 360 game. Braid was purchased by more than 55,000 people during the first week of release. According to Blow, Braid was the second-largest selling Xbox Live Arcade title in 2008 and sales were "very profitable", making him more money than if he had been working at a high-paying job for the time it took to develop the game.

Braid has been considered a masterpiece, and was highly praised for the unique puzzles it presented. Dan Whitehead of Eurogamer noted the creative variation on time manipulation and the need to understand the non-linearity of his actions made him feel as if "years of gaming blinders have been ripped away." Jason Hill of The Age stated the puzzles were "elaborate and formidable", but "impeccably designed and hugely satisfying to solve", a point reiterated by Sunday Herald Sun's Paddy Reiley. The connection between the puzzles and the overall presentation of the game was favorably received; Tom McShea of GameSpot stated that Braid was "the rare game that will make you rack your brain trying to solve puzzles one minute while challenging you to come to terms with its mature tale the next". Sam Roberts, game director for the Slamdance Film Festival Guerilla Gamemaking Competition, was impressed that Braid did not "feel immature" as it "expects much" of the player as any other form of media and "doesn't short you in any respect". Braid's artwork and presentation were given high regards. Nick Suttner of 1UP.com commented that Braid's artwork "juxtapose old-school design sensibilities with impressionist backdrops and lovingly hand-painted environments", while McShea stated that the game's visuals were "eye-catching but never distracting". Wired's Jean Snow wrote that Braid's "beautiful symphonic melodies contribute to what is already an impressive and unique vision", and that "the soothing tunes are probably the reason you never really lose it when facing particularly tough puzzles". Arthouse Games' Jason Rohrer interpreted the ability to rewind time indefinitely as a commentary about traditional platform game design: the fact the player is not forced to restart the level when they die gives greater emphasis to the game's "core challenges


Yeah, it was just another uninspired platformer. :roll:

Just curious, did you ever even play the game that you're bashing or watch the video in question that you're commenting on?

[Cornelius]

from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_%28video_game%29



Yeah, it was just another uninspired platformer. :roll:

Just curious, did you ever even play the game that you're bashing or watch the video in question that you're commenting on?

He's commenting on the Fez guy, not the Braid guy.

[Peonpiate]

Japan doesn't dominate anymore, and in comparison to what they used to be and mean to the industry, they do kinda suck. Too bad a lot of "indie games" (whatever that truly means) seem to emulate the best of what Japan used to offer.

But I agree, let's see how good and original his game is first. If it's what I think it'll be, he should try making something amazing before he runs his mouth.


I think the industry getting so large has alot to do with Japan losing its dominance. Once the Western devs swapped to consoles as their #1 development target it really upped the quality they released and that put pressure on Japan. Before the Playstation came out it was ALL about Japan, and unless you played on the PC you would rarely see a Western made console game, and if you did it was usually a shitty port of a good PC game. Xbox [due to being virtually a PC and easy to develop on] is what created the massive switch over from PC to console and its only continued that way. Of course the massive installed base on the PS2 helped a hell of alot to to convince PC/Western devs to swap over to the console scene.

GTA 3 aswell as countless other titles now - Should have been PC only, but it came out on the PS2 first and was built from the ground up for Consoles. Triple A title right there and thats just one of many PC dev games that started the trend of Japan losing its stanglehold on consoles.


Besides that I do believe Japanese game quality has taken a dive in recent years quality wise. Why I dont know, but some of the biggest dev houses of the past are releasing utter shit these days [hello FF13! imo :)].

[Peonpiate]

As far as this "Phil" guy goes, his lack of respect will probably bite him in the ass sooner or later. He might not care now, but business wise he sure is a dumbass.

[Jorpho]

Yeah, it was just another uninspired platformer. :roll:
http://www.dorkly.com/video/30941/dorkly-bits-mario-is-too-mainstream