Pre-NES Japan

[Griking]

A few posts here recently have me thinking about the evolution of video games again and Japan's place in it.

I've always been kind of annoyed that people tend to want to give Japan credit for both saving the video game industry and revolutionizing it. By all means Nintendo deserves all the credit in the world for their great marketing of the NES but to be fair, Atari had already come before them and provided a great guideline of what to do and what not to do with a home gaming console.

But people fail to realize that during the video game crash console gaming may have been on life support but PC gaming was arguably thriving. Many of the classics of our time were being released at this time. Japan is often given credit for creating the RPG and platform genres however I remember games such as Pitfall and Montazuma's Revenge before Mario came out. I also remember playing games such as ultima and Wizardry before Zelda and Final Fantasy came out. But again, because most of these were released on home computers they weren't as popular at the time.

However what I'm really ignorant about is the state of video and computer gaming in Japan before the NES. Here in the USA we had all of the classic consoles (Atari, Colecovision, Intellivision, etc...) as well as Apple, Commodore and other home computers. What was going on in Japan in the late 70s early 80s. Did they have their own revolutionary computer RPGs like Wizardry or Ultima over there that we never hear about over here in the states or were they playing Wizardry as well? A recent post here about classic computer games seems to indicate that they in fact were.

[theclaw]

PC-8801. That family expanded pretty well for a bit. Number of upgraded successors.

Failures included Atari 2800, and the infamous Commodore MAX Machine...

[Griking]

PC-8801. That family expanded pretty well for a bit. Number of upgraded successors.

Failures included Atari 2800, and the infamous Commodore MAX Machine...

But were there any ground breaking or memorable games released for them before the known classics of the US computer gaming companies?

[tom]

NEC PC 8001, 6001, 8801 (79 - 81) approx 2000 games, 1000 erotic style games, dating sims, RPGs. Koei was a big supporter.

SHARP MZ series (79 - 85) maybe 500 games incl Mario Bros, supported by Namco, Tecnosoft, Hudson

Sharp X series (82 - 86), approx 500 games, supported by Falcom, Enix (Black Onyx), Hudson

NEC PC 98 (82 - 90) 1500 games support: technosoft (Thunderforce), Systemsoft, Koei

Fujitsu FM series (82) 700 - 1000 games

Sord Takara M5 (82 -83) 50 games (pre-Famicom joypads)

Tomy Pya Ta (82) 30 games, support: Konami, Universal

Epoch Cassettevision (81) 12 carts

Casio PV1000 (20 games) (arcade titles)

MSX (July 83), (Famicom also July 83)

Sega SG1000 (83)

So they had a lot to choose from, but basically NEC computers ruled pre Famicom


.

[theclaw]

But were there any ground breaking or memorable games released for them before the known classics of the US computer gaming companies?

Some. There aren't many the western mass audience has played in original form. Space Invaders being a clear exception.

Certainly though, I'd think several of Japan's ground breaking early games should have far more widely known sequels and remakes.

[calthaer]

Sounds like you're looking for PC games that originated in Japan for Japanese PCs, though...right? Interesting topic. I'm guessing that the time period you probably care most about is probably pre-1985 or even pre-1983 (when the original Mario Bros. was released)

Found this article on the old NEC, but the thing is...

"It was a rare time when large numbers of Japanese gamers were actively interested in Western games, an interest which has only just rekindled in the last few years"

also:

"Yuji kept saying we should make an RPG, but while I wanted to make a game like Wizardry, he wanted it to be like Ultima. We said to ourselves that we'd combine the interesting parts from both, and what we ended up with was Dragon Quest."

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/JPNcomputers/Japanesecomputers3.htm

So yes...Dragon Quest certainly does have a lot of well-known sequels, but given this quote, it's hard to argue that it was "ground-breaking." More like they continued to till the soil where Richard Garriott and the guys who made Wizardry while students @ Cornell had broken ground.

EDIT: I also think Warren Robinett's Adventure (http://www.warrenrobinett.com/adventure/index.html) is probably a better pick as a precursor to The Legend of Zelda, as it contained a lot of the core elements: top-down cardinal movement, collection and use of items to overcome obstacles, and a fantasy theme.

[NE146]

Being from Guam, I went to Japan in the late 70's and all throughout the 80's at least twice a year since flights were cheap, mostly for my parents and sisters shopping, but also vacationing. What I used to always buy there was music. i.e. records & tapes. There's still a number of "new wave" japanese tapes in my sister's old rooms stored somewhere.

However I did see the gradual increasing of games and electronics in the stores there as it happened.. each time I came back it seemed there were more and more. What I saw was mostly electronic games getting hugely popular in the early 80's. So a lot of the stereo/electronic shops would start having super nice large displays of what seemed like hundreds of LCD/LED/VFD handheld games in all sorts of shapes and forms. Obviously there were some tv consoles back then too but I honestly don't recall seeing them much. Aside from the electronic games there was also a huge boom in the arcades, at first a lot of uprights with some US imports (I specifically recall seeing an Atari Starship 1), but then later the cocktail machines ruled the roost with rooms full of them.

There were obviously also computers but since they were a. expensive, and b. Japanese, I mostly ignored those. LOL But there were specifically entire floors of their multi-level stores that were dedicated to computers and software. I'd wander in and look at them and see the games they were playing but it was really way out of my league to consider anything beyond that. It seemed like a really strong market though.

Probably not the info you were looking for, but just wanted to relay my 1st hand experience of the time as I saw it. :)

[chrisbid]

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/JPNcomputers/Japanesecomputers.htm

here is a pretty good article on the subject

[Griking]

I guess guess what I'm really wondering is who's really responsible for creating the first platformers, RPGS, etc..

Because I live in the USA I remember going into Software City and Programs Plus as a kid and seeing shelves with Apple and C64 titles on them. I remember reading Electronic Games magazine and their previews and reviews of the latest computer games. However I never saw any games or reviews for Japanese games. Were games such as Rogue, Temple of Apshai and Wizardry really the first computer RPGS or did Japan really invent them as some would have us believe but we just never heard of them here in the states? Does Japan really have a claim for inventing the platformer? Do they have examples of prior art before games such as Pitfall?

[NerdXCrewWill]

I guess guess what I'm really wondering is who's really responsible for creating the first platformers, RPGS, etc..

Because I live in the USA I remember going into Software City and Programs Plus as a kid and seeing shelves with Apple and C64 titles on them. I remember reading Electronic Games magazine and their previews and reviews of the latest computer games. However I never saw any games or reviews for Japanese games. Were games such as Rogue, Temple of Apshai and Wizardry really the first computer RPGS or did Japan really invent them as some would have us believe but we just never heard of them here in the states? Does Japan really have a claim for inventing the platformer? Do they have examples of prior art before games such as Pitfall?

Donkey Kong predates Pitfall, although there may be platformers dating earlier than that. The first RPGs were made in the west around '75. Japan didn't make any until Koei released a couple in '82.

[Griking]

Donkey Kong predates Pitfall, although there may be platformers dating earlier than that. The first RPGs were made in the west around '75. Japan didn't make any until Koei released a couple in '82.

I never really considered Donkey Kong because I thought that a platformer technically consisted of multiple screens that you can move between.

[NerdXCrewWill]

I never really considered Donkey Kong because I thought that a platformer technically consisted of multiple screens that you can move between.

I was thinking more along the lines of any game involving jumping to and from platforms. Working with your definition, Jump Bug, also developed in Japan, predates Pitfall.

EDIT: And if anyone doesn't like Jump Bug as a platformer, then Taito's Jungle Hunt predates Pitfall too.

[tom]

I never really considered Donkey Kong because I thought that a platformer technically consisted of multiple screens that you can move between.

The term 'platform and ladders' game was coined for Space Panic (1980), the first scrolling platform was Jump Bug. A platform game doesn't have to be a scroller or screen to screen mover, see Jumpman, Wizard, Miner 2049er, Lode Runner etc...


About other 'first' games, many game genres were developed on PLATO:

Airfight, 1974 a 3D flight simulator
Empire, 1974 a 30 people real time space simulation
Spasim, 1974 1st person Space battle game
Pedit5, 1974 first graphic D&D (RPG) game
dnd, 1975 another D&D with first ever video game boss
Panther, 1975 3D tank simulation
Build-Up, 1975 3D maze game
Avatar, 1978, multi-user-dungeon (MUD)

and many more