WD's Victor Ireland is Back! (Oh, And He Wants Half-A-Million Bucks.)

[Press_Start]

It's gettin' really late for me. So I'll let the article speak for itself.

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/03/27/class-of-heroes-2-picked-up-by-monkeypaw-needs-500000-for-deluxe-physical-release/

Great to see Victor back! :)

[Aussie2B]

Uh-huh. I'm sure the whole reason why Atlus didn't bother to bring the sequel over themselves was because the first Class of Heroes wasn't all that popular and didn't sell well enough to justify pursuing the series further.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I think I'll give money to other projects that deserve it.

Victor, NOBODY BUYS GAMES FOR THE EXTRA CRAP ANYMORE. At least, not on the Working Designs level of crap.

[megasdkirby]

I think I'll give money to other projects that deserve it.

Victor, NOBODY BUYS GAMES FOR THE EXTRA CRAP ANYMORE. At least, not on the Working Designs level of crap.

Hey, I like extra crap. :)

But I would not donate money towards his projects, though. He was, and might still be, a huge douche. And I doubt he has changed over the years...but who knows.

[Bojay1997]

I really don't understand this at all. He is already going to release it digitally with or without the funding, so there is no point to this Kickstarter. If he wants to release a deluxe physical edition, all he needs to do is partner with a distributor which can extend a line of credit and take pre-orders. There is absolutely no reason he needs to use Kickstarter for this effort.

[Oobgarm]

I can see why, gauging interest in the project by having those who'd buy donate. Makes sense over using credit to produce a quantity that may not be entirely consumed.

Especially on a PSP.

[Bojay1997]

I can see why, gauging interest in the project by having those who'd buy donate. Makes sense over using credit to produce a quantity that may not be entirely consumed.

Especially on a PSP.

So then you open pre-orders and accept deposits or even the full amount. Kickstarter is not supposed to be a replacement for normal business tools.

[Oobgarm]

But why not have an avenue open for those who'd like do more beyond simply purchase the title at retail? I don't know of many other ways.

No, Kickstarter is not supposed to be a replacement, but it's certainly turning into one.

[Bojay1997]

But why not have an avenue open for those who'd like do more beyond simply purchase the title at retail? I don't know of many other ways.

No, Kickstarter is not supposed to be a replacement, but it's certainly turning into one.

I don't understand. What about this offer goes beyond essentially creating a multiple tiered collector's edition? If he wants to sell limited edition collectibles, he can easily open a web store. Kickstarter is supposed to be a vehicle for the community to fund worthwhile projects that otherwise can't use traditional financing methods. The digital game release is already fully financed. There is no point in raising $500K when all he has to do to gauge interest is open a preorder through Paypal or even Amazon marketplace or better yet, find a distributor and share the risk.

[Oobgarm]

I'm not out to defend the guy, but I think it's a neat way for fans to feel more involved in the process, and all parties benefit.

1. Gamer/donator benefits from a feel of self-worth and whatever rewards they get for donating.
2. Ireland benefits from getting his name back in the media and making some crazy CE that he appears to have a lot of personal interest in doing.
3. The publisher gets to sell more copies of a game that might not have had the sales it did without this fundraiser.
4. The industry could see more niche stuff in the future if people help get it made.

I don't understand why there's a need for all the hand-wringing, myself.

The industry is too dangerous for a company to take a chance on something like this. Why not turn to those who would be interested to help fund it? I think it's a great idea that could lead to cool things in the future, regardless of the "this isn't what Kickstarter is for" argument. I simply cannot see how a fan-funded collector's edition for a game that is incredibly niche is a bad thing at all.

[Bojay1997]

I'm not out to defend the guy, but I think it's a neat way for fans to feel more involved in the process, and all parties benefit.

1. Gamer/donator benefits from a feel of self-worth and whatever rewards they get for donating.
2. Ireland benefits from getting his name back in the media and making some crazy CE that he appears to have a lot of personal interest in doing.
3. The publisher gets to sell more copies of a game that might not have had the sales it did without this fundraiser.
4. The industry could see more niche stuff in the future if people help get it made.

I don't understand why there's a need for all the hand-wringing, myself.

The industry is too dangerous for a company to take a chance on something like this. Why not turn to those who would be interested to help fund it? I think it's a great idea that could lead to cool things in the future, regardless of the "this isn't what Kickstarter is for" argument. I simply cannot see how a fan-funded collector's edition for a game that is incredibly niche is a bad thing at all.

As myself and others have pointed out in other Kickstarter threads, efforts like this that aren't necessary or well thought out will likely make it harder for smaller independent projects to get funding and could sour people on the whole Kickstarter process. There is literally no need for this Kickstarter. If he wants to release a collector's edition, all he has to do is take pre-orders three months prior and require that they be fully paid off like Studio 38 did for Amalur and every other niche action figure or collectible company does with its limited releases. Just doing some quick math, with his $60 CE, if the $500K goal is met, that would be equal to roughly 8300 copies. There are a number of non-CE PSP games that had lower print runs including the most recent DJ Max Portable 3 game which had just 1,000 limited editions and 6,000 regular retail copies. Notably, they didn't need a Kickstarter to do that release and it's a very tiny company. I understand that the industry can be a difficult place for smaller companies, especially in this economy. What I don't understand is companies who should know better and have other resources abusing the fans through Kickstarter.

[kupomogli]

I'm sure the $500,000 kickstarter isn't just for Class of Heroes getting a physical release.


If the drive works out, Ireland told Kotaku he has a "laundry list" of JRPGs he would like to work on with an emphasis on PSP titles. "We’re looking at titles on all platforms, but there’s a special emphasis on PSP because there’s so many titles stuck in Japan that really need to be enjoyed here. However, even though I can’t give specific titles, know that we have pursued or are closing deals on all major platforms," Ireland said.

I mean, despite the list of crap that Tim Schafer has released this gen, and again, this is going by only playing Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, Tim Schafer received over a million in kickstarter without anything. Not even a name. Atleast this kickstarter will get us a physical copy of Class of Heroes as well as the possibility of other localizations.

There are a lot of games for the PSP that I'd like to see come over, and to hear Vic say that, it's something that'd definitely make me want this project to succeed, with or without extra stuff. While not the developer, Working Designs has always had a track record of localizing good or great games and for the most part the localizations were very well done.

I mean seriously. Look at all the shit that comes out these days, yet you're criticizing a company that released good games and wants to make a come back. The thing I see is that GaijinWorks is a small publishers that needs to get off the ground, and what do most small publishers do? The smaller publishers usually try to put an emphasis on releasing good niche titles that otherwise wouldn't be released. Working Designs, Agetec, Atlus, XSeed, etc. We probably would have never seen Arc the Lad 2 unless it was for Working Designs, as well as a lot of other great games, but Arc the Lad 2 is one of my favorite games and I thank them for that. Who knows if we'd have ever seen anything From Software(aside from Demon's/Dark Souls) or any of the RPG Maker games if not for Agetec, and while the publisher isn't really worth following any longer, they released a lot of amazing games for the PSX and PS2. To me, FromSoftware and Agetec have always been synonymous, as most of the FromSoftware library was published by Agetec in the west until after the PS2, so even though Agetec didn't make the games, I was still a fan. Then there's Atlus, which also were a very small publisher in the west during the 8bit, 16bit, and 32/64bit era. They gained a lot of popularity and now half of what they release is crap while the other half is what made them what they are today, or atleast somewhat. Then look at XSeed. Anyone remember what their first game was? I think it was Shadow Hearts From the New World, and while I don't care much for the title, they started with that game and have been one of the best publishers this gen.

Another good thing about companies as publishers rather than those like Schafer who want to develop their own games, is that there are plenty of good unlocalized games that we haven't received and they can attempt to go for any of those titles. Where as Tim Schafer is going to be set on developing his own title which may or may not be a piece of shit.

[Bojay1997]

You're confusing legitimate business practices with good intentions and no guarantees. Every one of those small businesses you listed either raised the capital from investors or took out loans or the founders put up their own money. Here, this company that has done little or nothing since being announced several years ago wants $500K for a vague promise that if they get it, other games may be released. Unfortunately, that isn't how Kickstarter works and such promises likely violate their terms and conditions. All anyone is promised for making a contribution is whatever is listed on the Kickstarter site. You can hope and wish that Vic will pursue other projects, but the $500K raised can't be used for them and it certainly doesn't guarantee they will happen. I'll be honest, I supported Wasteland 2 and the Tim Schaeffer project, but this latest announcement has really turned me against these campaigns for good. There is zero reason this needs to be done as a Kickstarter. None. Take preorders like everyone else and if you have a legitimate business model, find a publisher to support it.


I'm sure the $500,000 kickstarter isn't just for Class of Heroes getting a physical release.



I mean, despite the list of crap that Tim Schafer has released this gen, and again, this is going by only playing Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, Tim Schafer received over a million in kickstarter without anything. Not even a name. Atleast this kickstarter will get us a physical copy of Class of Heroes as well as the possibility of other localizations.

There are a lot of games for the PSP that I'd like to see come over, and to hear Vic say that, it's something that'd definitely make me want this project to succeed, with or without extra stuff. While not the developer, Working Designs has always had a track record of localizing good or great games and for the most part the localizations were very well done.

I mean seriously. Look at all the shit that comes out these days, yet you're criticizing a company that released good games and wants to make a come back. The thing I see is that GaijinWorks is a small publishers that needs to get off the ground, and what do most small publishers do? The smaller publishers usually try to put an emphasis on releasing good niche titles that otherwise wouldn't be released. Working Designs, Agetec, Atlus, XSeed, etc. We probably would have never seen Arc the Lad 2 unless it was for Working Designs, as well as a lot of other great games, but Arc the Lad 2 is one of my favorite games and I thank them for that. Who knows if we'd have ever seen anything From Software(aside from Demon's/Dark Souls) or any of the RPG Maker games if not for Agetec, and while the publisher isn't really worth following any longer, they released a lot of amazing games for the PSX and PS2. To me, FromSoftware and Agetec have always been synonymous, as most of the FromSoftware library was published by Agetec in the west until after the PS2, so even though Agetec didn't make the games, I was still a fan. Then there's Atlus, which also were a very small publisher in the west during the 8bit, 16bit, and 32/64bit era. They gained a lot of popularity and now half of what they release is crap while the other half is what made them what they are today, or atleast somewhat. Then look at XSeed. Anyone remember what their first game was? I think it was Shadow Hearts From the New World, and while I don't care much for the title, they started with that game and have been one of the best publishers this gen.

Another good thing about companies as publishers rather than those like Schafer who want to develop their own games, is that there are plenty of good unlocalized games that we haven't received and they can attempt to go for any of those titles. Where as Tim Schafer is going to be set on developing his own title which may or may not be a piece of shit.

[kupomogli]

With the Kickstarter you're still getting a premium edition physical copy of Class of Heroes for PS3, so you're not going to be out of any money if you're interested in the game, only what it cost.

[Edmond Dantes]

He was, and might still be, a huge douche.

How so? (Speaking as someone who generally knows next-to-nothing about WD except for what Sega CD and Turbo games they localized)

[xelement5x]

How so? (Speaking as someone who generally knows next-to-nothing about WD except for what Sega CD and Turbo games they localized)

He's gone kind of crazy with all the entitlement rants and believing that modern localizers should pay homage to him. The whole sabotage of the Lunar: Silver Star Harmony localization by getting the voice actors to refuse to work with XSEED because XSEED wouldn't hire him as a translator/consultant for the project was kind of a dick move in my humble opinion.


I still love the stuff that Working Designs brought out, but as a person he comes off a bit abrasive.

On the topic of the Limuted Edition from the Kickstarter page though:

We’re offering a Physical Deluxe Pack of Class of Heroes II for the PSP® system that will be the craziest Deluxe Pack we’ve ever done. And if you know our work at Working Designs, that’s a pretty high bar already. This will NOT have digital content you download. It will NOT have codes for in-game armor or weapons. It will NOT have a picture flip book passed off as an art book. It will not ship with DLC on the disc you have to pay for again later. It will NOT come in a tin box passed off as Steelbook. It will NOT be what's usually advertised as a Collector's Edition in 2012 - a wimpy, atrophied shadow of what a real Deluxe Pack should be.

It will be an awesome Deluxe Pack with real, collectible, limited, awesome stuff based on the game, including an arranged soundtrack.

We’ll be shipping these Deluxe Packs directly to fans, hot off the press. This will be an exclusive, very limited, one-time release. It will not be in stores or anywhere else. Starting at the $59 ($49 for the Deluxe Pack w/$10 shipping) level, you will get one of these Limited Edition Deluxe Packs and some sweet swag perks for supporting this effort. In fact, more swag than we’ve ever done for one game - more swag than any other console game I know of. This is epic stuff.

I'm happy to see a physical release, and a limited edition that doesn't suck, but the whole thing seems like a money grab. If they're so up in arms about physical releases, then why make it required to buy the PSN version of Vanguard Bandits in order to purchase the Vanguard Bandits pin (http://www.gaijinworks.com/promotions/vanguard-bandits-pin/) they're selling?

I doubt this will reach $500K, but if they still produce the whole thing and there are unsold copies I'm betting they'll wind up in his closet again to be sold on eBay 10 years later for a tidy profit.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I mean, despite the list of crap that Tim Schafer has released this gen, and again, this is going by only playing Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, Tim Schafer received over a million in kickstarter without anything. Not even a name.

This won't mean much to you, since you're mostly a PS3 fan, but --
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,1365/

Look at all the games he worked in. Look at all the games he worked in. Tim Schafer has been in the business since 1988, he's been involved with some very memorable games as a designer and a writer. He got the money because gamers since the 80's are aware of who he is. The people who played Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island, the people who played Grim Fandango, the people who played Psychonauts, and the people who played Costume Quest. Four very different "generations" of gamers (both in taste and in platforms, I mean) have played his games.

Twenty four years of work are enough to let the backers know he's not going to fuck around with your money. He's going to use it and do a fucking good game because he fucking well can.

Can you say the same thing about Vic Ireland? Can anyone?

[kupomogli]

I've played Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island, but the two most recent games of his that I've played are Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, which the two recent ones suck ass. I don't give two shits about the games in the past when his current games aren't worth a damn.

Saying a Tim Schafer game is going to be good because it's a Tim Schafer game is like saying Star Wars 1, 2, and 3 would be good because it's George Lucas.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I've played Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island, but the two most recent games of his that I've played are Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, which the two recent ones suck ass. I don't give two shits about the games in the past when his current games aren't worth a damn.

Saying a Tim Schafer game is going to be good because it's a Tim Schafer game is like saying Star Wars 1, 2, and 3 would be good because it's George Lucas.

Of course you'd say they suck ass. Why did I even bother replying?

[Griking]

I think I'll give money to other projects that deserve it.

Victor, NOBODY BUYS GAMES FOR THE EXTRA CRAP ANYMORE. At least, not on the Working Designs level of crap.

Really? I seem to remember people (myself included) loving the old Working Designs games because of their packaging.

[Griking]

But why not have an avenue open for those who'd like do more beyond simply purchase the title at retail? I don't know of many other ways.

No, Kickstarter is not supposed to be a replacement, but it's certainly turning into one.

If this practice became common I wonder how it would affect game rarity down the road.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Really? I seem to remember people (myself included) loving the old Working Designs games because of their packaging.

This was before. I imagined the people who liked that stuff in those days would like it now, too.

But in my opinion, he's putting entirely too much effort into the goodies instead of, you know, the game itself.

[kupomogli]

Of course you'd say they suck ass. Why did I even bother replying?

I meant the newer games suck ass and having developed good older games doesn't mean that his newer games will be any good. I like Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island.

[TonyTheTiger]

But in my opinion, he's putting entirely too much effort into the goodies instead of, you know, the game itself.

To be fair, marketing can play a huge part in a game's success or failure. Creative ways to get your product to stand out among the sea of similarly themed titles can be extremely important. In some ways, putting effort into the goodies over the game (although it doesn't have to be a zero sum game either) might actually be the best course of action if the game will have trouble selling itself on it's own merits. And on the PSP, it just might.

[Daria]

Opps. My bad. Didn't realize this was the shit on Vic Ireland thread.

[Press_Start]

Can you say the same thing about Vic Ireland? Can anyone?

Well, it's more contributing to the idea than to the man itself. That's the sentiment I'm reading from the comments at Kickstarter and even if it fails, it's feels like the next non-tradition avenue for gamers hungering for good games to be part of the process that 95% of the industry has flat out ignored and/or underestimated for the last 28 years. With 300K+ pre-orders rumors for Xenoblade looming abound (200K according to VGchartz), this "lost" market is becoming a growing presence day by day possibly beyond what Operation Rainfall aspired as there's already talk about getting Fatal Frame IV/2 Remake over here by building awareness of Spirit Camera in hope the sales will warrant FF's localization in the states.

[Bojay1997]

Is the industry really ignoring "good games" though? I mean Class of Heroes was released for the PSP and it wasn't a financial success, at least not enough to justify a follow-up release from Atlus. Frankly, I bought it at launch for full price and played it for a few hours and then never played it again. It just wasn't a great game IMHO. Many of the commenters on the Kickstarter site and on other message boards seem to agree.

It seems like we are getting tons of obscure and niche games from publishers like Atlus, Aksys, Ignition, NIS, Rising Star which is now going to be releasing Cave shooters over here, Xseed and several others. Heck, even Bandai Namco is getting into the swing of it with Dark Souls. There are also lots of opportunities for digital only releases on services like XBL and PSN. Sure, there will always be games that never make it over from Japan, but there are also lots of really bad and mediocre Japanese titles that have limited appeal to any audience. It's really no different than any other product like movies, magazines, books, etc...Not everything is always going to get a worldwide release and generally, if something has mass appeal or at least can result in profitability, it will eventually make it out over here.

The reality is that videogames are a business and while Kickstarter has been interesting over these past few campaigns, there are other ways to do the same thing which don't involve paying large percentages to Kickstarter, paying taxes on the contributions and everything else that essentially sucks up the same amount of money as a distributor might on a more traditional release. My big concern with this specific campaign is that the company already has funded or has funds to do the digital release. All they are really looking to do is to make a few small changes to the save system and the controls and then create a deluxe physical release. That doesn't require $500K or a Kickstarter campaign. They could have simply taken pre-paid orders at $60 a pop and gone from there. It's not like they are building something from the ground up which is what both the Double Fine and the Wasteland 2 campaigns agreed to do. Essentially, they are asking for our support so they can avoid any risk with sticking some swag crap in a box for the release. That's not exactly the kind of thing that's going to convince anyone to invest more in obscure niche releases since most video game companies don't make their money off the swag, they make it off the software itself.


Well, it's more contributing to the idea than to the man itself. That's the sentiment I'm reading from the comments at Kickstarter and even if it fails, it's feels like the next non-tradition avenue for gamers hungering for good games to be part of the process that 95% of the industry has flat out ignored and/or underestimated for the last 28 years. With 300K+ pre-orders rumors for Xenoblade looming abound (200K according to VGchartz), this "lost" market is becoming a growing presence day by day possibly beyond what Operation Rainfall aspired as there's already talk about getting Fatal Frame IV/2 Remake over here by building awareness of Spirit Camera in hope the sales will warrant FF's localization in the states.

[TonyTheTiger]

Is the industry really ignoring "good games" though? I mean Class of Heroes was released for the PSP and it wasn't a financial success, at least not enough to justify a follow-up release from Atlus. Frankly, I bought it at launch for full price and played it for a few hours and then never played it again. It just wasn't a great game IMHO.

Beggars can't be choosers. It's an unfortunate reality but small publishers don't get the pick of the litter. While you're always trying to make sure to avoid picking up genuine crap, sometimes you have to pick from the leftovers that might fall short of AAA, the games that nobody else wants and can be licensed on the cheap. Working Designs itself dealt with this when they localized the likes of Vay and Albert Odyssey. Hardly great games but you do your best and hopefully get more out of it than you sunk in and just maybe if it works out you'll have better options down the line. And that's arguably why Victor Ireland is pushing deluxe packaging and all the bells and whistles. It's very easy for an ok game to get completely lost in the shuffle. What are you supposed to do to stand out if you know the only games available to you are merely decent?

[Bojay1997]

Sure, but that's my point. The market already dictates that many good niche games get released over here and the ones that aren't as good ultimately don't. The great thing about digital services is that titles that may only sell thousands of copies can become financially viable based on a revenue sharing model and by minimizing localization costs and cutting out the physical distribution costs. Yes, as a collector I don't like it, but as a gamer it's really pretty perfect.

Let's be honest, whether this campaign fails or succeeds, Vic and his start-up are not going to change the way the industry operates. Trying to make up for the fact that you have a mediocre game by slapping a bunch of mediocre game related swag in a box and then going the extra step of asking people to take away all the risk by covering your costs up front isn't a sustainable model. The next game he does if this one gets fully funded will also be a lower end title because ultimately, if the market is proven to be there, bigger developers will keep stepping in and releasing stuff just like Bandai Namco did with Dark Souls.

Working Designs was a great company at a time when the industry was less willing to take risks with Japanese product. Thankfully, those days are largely over and there are many, many companies out there who do the same thing WD used to but in many cases better and without the silly Westernization that he is talking about doing to this particular release. Has everyone all of a sudden forgotten about his Clinton jokes or OJ references in games? It's not like he respected the integrity of the original product with any great discipline.


Beggars can't be choosers. It's an unfortunate reality but small publishers don't get the pick of the litter. While you're always trying to make sure to avoid picking up genuine crap, sometimes you have to pick from the leftovers that might fall short of AAA, the games that nobody else wants and can be licensed on the cheap. Working Designs itself dealt with this when they localized the likes of Vay and Albert Odyssey. Hardly great games but you do your best and hopefully get more out of it than you sunk in and just maybe if it works out you'll have better options down the line. And that's arguably why Victor Ireland is pushing deluxe packaging and all the bells and whistles. It's very easy for an ok game to get completely lost in the shuffle. What are you supposed to do to stand out if you know the only games available to you are merely decent?

[theclaw]

This method isn't for "good" niche games. It best fits the exceptionally out there ideas. Those serious risky games most people outside fan circles would never buy. If hear about at all. Letting companies more directly gauge users' financial interest in a project.

With the traditional preorder model, usually it's too late to back out. The company has already spent many resources on development and licensing first. Only in rare cases do they cancel a game once preorders are open or even shipped to stores. We don't need an NBA Elite 11 repeat. Besides there's no telling how many preorders placed will be picked up.

[Bojay1997]

This method isn't for "good" niche games. It best fits the exceptionally out there ideas. Those serious risky games most people outside fan circles would never buy. If hear about at all. Letting companies more directly gauge users' financial interest in a project.

With the traditional preorder model, usually it's too late to back out. The company has already spent many resources on development and licensing first. Only in rare cases do they cancel a game once preorders are open or even shipped to stores. We don't need an NBA Elite 11 repeat. Besides there's no telling how many preorders placed will be picked up.

Sure, but a company can always do what anime publishers and even companies like Studio 38 just did with Amalur and require that the collector's editions be paid off 3-4 months in advance. That way, they know exactly how many to press in advance of the 4-6 week lead time needed to create various promo items and packaging.

[kupomogli]

Sure, but that's my point. The market already dictates that many good niche games get released over here and the ones that aren't as good ultimately don't.

No it doesn't. The market dictates what will more than likely get sales, not whether the game is any good or not. There is a lot of shit that's on all consoles and portables this gen, more than any other generation. Like many other generations, there's a lot of great games that don't get released here, some of which I've played, others of which are quite obvious as they're practically the same game with revions of others that I've played. Most are PSP games, but there are DS and PS3 games as well. A lot of these games are much better than most of the games that we do receive.


The next game he does if this one gets fully funded will also be a lower end title because ultimately, if the market is proven to be there, bigger developers will keep stepping in and releasing stuff just like Bandai Namco did with Dark Souls.

Dark Souls didn't come to the US by Namco Bandai deciding to get into releasing niche titles, it came to the US because Namco Bandai wanted a western style franchise that didn't bomb like the previous four from western developers.

[theclaw]

Oh right. Afro Samurai trying to start a new publishing label failed terribly at doing that sort of thing.

[Bojay1997]

I always find it fascinating when people make this claim that there is this vast supply of great games out there that never get localized. When you then ask them for some examples, it's always some obscure JRPG or other niche Japanese title that probably didn't even sell well in Japan and which is another rehash of the same old formula. Are there some great games that never get localized? Certainly. Are there tons? Nope.

The video game business is probably the most globally oriented of all mass media with the possible exception of films and even then, the distribution usually flows from the US to the rest of the world and far less frequently the other way. Many of the top developers and two of the three major manufacturers of hardware are Japanese companies. A significant percentage of games on every platform except perhaps the Xbox 360 and to a lesser extent the PS3 are developed by Japanese companies. Simply put, publishers publish what will sell and be profitable. Any business with any goal other than that is headed for bankruptcy and is not a business at all. Fortunately, gamers are smart consumers and generally buy games that are great. Poor quality games just don't sell well. Word of mouth ends up killing them. Just ask Acclaim and more recently THQ which is hovering the bankruptcy drain.

Namco Bandai picked up Dark Souls because Atlus did tremendously well in the US with the earlier game Demon's Souls. I don't see how you can argue that either game is a Western oriented game. They are niche to an extreme and yet because they are great games, they both sold quite well.



No it doesn't. The market dictates what will more than likely get sales, not whether the game is any good or not. There is a lot of shit that's on all consoles and portables this gen, more than any other generation. Like many other generations, there's a lot of great games that don't get released here, some of which I've played, others of which are quite obvious as they're practically the same game with revions of others that I've played. Most are PSP games, but there are DS and PS3 games as well. A lot of these games are much better than most of the games that we do receive.



Dark Souls didn't come to the US by Namco Bandai deciding to get into releasing niche titles, it came to the US because Namco Bandai wanted a western style franchise that didn't bomb like the previous four from western developers.

[Press_Start]

Is the industry really ignoring "good games" though?
Xenoblade Chronicles, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Trace Memory R, Day of Disaster, Night of the Sacrifice, Reginliev, Fatal Frame 4, Fatal Frame 2 Remake, Sky Rodea, Earth Seeker, Megaman Legends 3, Ace Attorney Investigations 2, Valkyrie Chronicles 3, Nightmare Busters, Policenauts, Mr. Gimmick, Trip World, U-four-ia, Kid Dracula (NES), Baby Upa, Penguin Dream Adventures, Twinbee, Parodius, Gradius II, Moon Crystal, Adventure Island II, Chronicle of Radia War, Super Mario Bros 2: Lost Levels, Final Fantasy 2, Final Fantasy 3, Mother, etc. So, the answer is your question: hell yeah!

I mean if it weren't, then Operation Rainfall wouldn't need to exist would it?


Heck, even Bandai Namco is getting into the swing of it with Dark Souls.
Yeah, after Atlus did all the heavy-lifting work for them on Demon's Souls, thank you very much. Next time maybe Namco should ask Mayor Quinby to be their new mascot.



It just wasn't a great game IMHO. Many of the commenters on the Kickstarter site and on other message boards seem to agree.

Yet they still donated. Evidently, some have given upwards to $1000. So it proves my point that it's more than about the game and getting swag. It's more of an avenue of outcry for these gamers cause they think no one is listening to them. The fact Operation Rainfall resorted to metaphorically kicking down the door screaming to lay a huge sack of money at Nintendo's feet just to localize a trio of RPGs, practically ready for American markets on a sliver platter, is a colossal joke.

[TonyTheTiger]

Xenoblade Chronicles, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Trace Memory R, Day of Disaster, Night of the Sacrifice, Reginliev, Fatal Frame 4, Fatal Frame 2 Remake, Sky Rodea, Earth Seeker, Megaman Legends 3, Ace Attorney Investigations 2, Valkyrie Chronicles 3, Nightmare Busters, Policenauts, Mr. Gimmick, Trip World, U-four-ia, Kid Dracula (NES), Baby Upa, Penguin Dream Adventures, Twinbee, Parodius, Gradius II, Moon Crystal, Adventure Island II, Chronicle of Radia War, Super Mario Bros 2: Lost Levels, Final Fantasy 2, Final Fantasy 3, Mother, etc. So, the answer is your question: hell yeah!

It's not really fair to answer that question with 25 years worth of history. Lord knows that far more quirky Japanese games end up here today than ever before. He's absolutely right that the playing field as it is today is far more conducive to good games finding their way here in some form or another than it was in the past. It ends up meaning that if Victor Ireland wants to continue in the Working Designs tradition, he's probably going to have a much harder time landing another Lunar, Popful Mail, or even Rayearth. For a small publisher, these diamonds in the rough are harder to come by these days.

[Bojay1997]

You've listed a ton of games that have either already been released in the US (albeit not on their original platform) or are planned for US release or haven't been released anywhere and therefore nobody knows if they would be great or not. Seriously, Megaman Legends 3? Day of Disaster and Trace Memory R? Talk about games that could have been great but turned out mediocre despite all the hype. I have both from the UK and I can honestly say we missed nothing by not getting them over here.

I don't want to burst your bubble, but Operation Rainfall didn't cause Xenoblade and Last Story to get a US release. Gamestop and Xseed and Nintendo knowing that there was profit to be made are the only ones responsible for that decision and ultimately it was a business decision because they are great games which will sell. When those two games sell significant numbers, I'm sure Pandora's Tower will be close behind.

You're right, Atlus did all the heavy lifting, but it doesn't change the fact that Namco recognized a good game coupled with a good business model and made it an even larger success.

You can make the Kickstarter campaign about whatever you want, but I would encourage you to study what his business plan is stated to be and the terms and conditions Kickstarter requires when using its services. The money can only be used for this game, not general development of other titles. As such, it will have zero impact on getting other games released from your list and its not going to encourage Nintendo or Capcom or any of the other IP holders of many of the games below to suddenly open the flood gates of niche titles. The point is, this campaign wasn't well planned, it's not even backing something people desire and frankly, I'll go out on a limb here and predict it won't meet its goal, thus doing more damage than good when other companies realize that there isn't some huge groundswell out there for niche mediocre games.


Xenoblade Chronicles, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Trace Memory R, Day of Disaster, Night of the Sacrifice, Reginliev, Fatal Frame 4, Fatal Frame 2 Remake, Sky Rodea, Earth Seeker, Megaman Legends 3, Ace Attorney Investigations 2, Valkyrie Chronicles 3, Nightmare Busters, Policenauts, Mr. Gimmick, Trip World, U-four-ia, Kid Dracula (NES), Baby Upa, Penguin Dream Adventures, Twinbee, Parodius, Gradius II, Moon Crystal, Adventure Island II, Chronicle of Radia War, Super Mario Bros 2: Lost Levels, Final Fantasy 2, Final Fantasy 3, Mother, etc. So, the answer is your question: hell yeah!

I mean if it weren't, then Operation Rainfall wouldn't need to exist would it?


Yeah, after Atlus did all the heavy-lifting work for them on Demon's Souls, thank you very much. Next time maybe Namco should ask Mayor Quinby to be their new mascot.




Yet they still donated. Evidently, some have given upwards to $1000. So it proves my point that it's more than about the game and getting swag. It's more of an avenue of outcry for these gamers cause they think no one is listening to them. The fact Operation Rainfall resorted to metaphorically kicking down the door screaming to lay a huge sack of money at Nintendo's feet just to localize a trio of RPGs, practically ready for American markets on a sliver platter, is a colossal joke.

[TonyTheTiger]

I'll go out on a limb here and predict it won't meet its goal, thus doing more damage than good when other companies realize that there isn't some huge groundswell out there for niche mediocre games.

I think most have already figured that out. The sea of generic anime titles is probably not moving large numbers. Atlus saw this back on the PS2 with games like Metal Saga and Steambot Chronicles. That seems to be part of why Disgaea was such a surprise. The runaway success stories are rare and when they do happen the publisher can easily lose out on the sequels (which also happened). I don't think anybody anywhere doesn't already know that these games have limited appeal. NISA tried a preorder stunt with Holy Invasion of Privacy, Badman in an effort to gauge interest in a physical release. It failed, apparently miserably so. Victor Ireland is doing essentially the same thing except using Kickstarter instead. Maybe there's reason to argue that Kickstarter is worse for something like this. That could be true. But if it fails it won't be telling people anything they don't already know.

[kupomogli]

I always find it fascinating when people make this claim that there is this vast supply of great games out there that never get localized. When you then ask them for some examples, it's always some obscure JRPG or other niche Japanese title that probably didn't even sell well in Japan and which is another rehash of the same old formula. Are there some great games that never get localized? Certainly. Are there tons? Nope.

There may not be tons, but there are more than a few. If you look back at Namco Bandai before the merger, Bandai released a hell of a lot of Gundam titles in the west. Some weren't really good, but most were. Aside from Gundam Crossfire which sucks total ass, the only Gundam games that have made way outside of Japan are Koei titles. Dynasty Warriors Gundam, bullshit.

But you want a list, I'll list games that I've played. Gundam Battle/Royale, Chronicles, and Universe. All great games, there's also Tactics and the other one with Seed characters, but I haven't played those. Gundam vs Gundam, Gundam Extreme Vs, The newer Gihren's Greed games(Advance Wars with Gundam,) etc. There's a lot of good Gundam games, and while you may or may not be a fan, that doesn't change the fact that these games are very good. But hey, maybe you don't want to see a list of Gundam games, so here are non Gundam games I've played.

Black Panther Yakuza Demo(amazing,) Jump Ultimate Stars, Fist of the North Star Arc System Works(PS2,) and Tales of Phantasia X. That's really about all I've played though, because I'm not too big on importing or playing games unless I understand the text. If the games not text heavy, which is why there are so many Gundam games, then I really don't care and will play them no problem. You might ask why I list Tales of Phantasia X though? The PSP version is a much improved version over even the PSX version. It's like comparing how Street Fighter 2 plays to Street Fighter Alpha 3 with infinite V-Ism. It's that much of an improvement.

Games that I want to play and I probably won't ever unless they're translated? Retro Game Challenge 2, Half Minute Hero 2, Tales of Destiny 2(PS2 or PSP,) Tales of Destiny Director's Cut(PS2,) Black Panther Yakuza(full game obviously,) Black Panther Yakuza 2, Valkyria Chronicles 3, Phantasy Star Portable Infinite, The Little Battlers, Sora no Kiseki SC, Sora no Kiseki TC, Zero no Kiseki, Zwei!!, Brandish Dark Revenant, the new Suikoden PSP game, Final Fantasy Type 0, and Shining Blade.

These are only games that I know of or are the only ones I can really think of off the top of my head. While it doesn't mean that there's a long list of games that might be better than these games I've listed, it also doesn't mean there's not a list of amazing games I may have not have heard about, etc. Still, missing out on 30 games that are good/more than likely good unless importing is a big number.

[Press_Start]

I don't want to burst your bubble, but Operation Rainfall didn't cause Xenoblade and Last Story to get a US release. Gamestop and Xseed and Nintendo knowing that there was profit to be made are the only ones responsible for that decision and ultimately it was a business decision because they are great games which will sell. :bullshit::bullshit::bullshit:

According the Nintendo of France.... (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/26928)


He told the station that Nintendo of Europe wanted to show Xenoblade Chronicles at E3 2011, but Nintendo of America wouldn't let them because they didn't want to show products they aren't planning to sell.

If you take that comment at face value, that means the Nintendo of America is not planning to bring Xenoblade Chronicles to North America. It's not a full death knell for Xenoblade Chronicles in the region, but it's certainly not looking good.

So yeah. Nintendo of America didn't want to localize Xenoblade Chronicles given
a) They showcased Xenoblade (aka Monado) at E3 2009 but not for following years at E3 2010 and 2011
b) NoE was handling the translation first, not NoA
c) NoA themselves saying they didn't think it was going to "sell".

Thus, if Nintendo of America weren't officially releasing Xenoblade, no way in hell we were getting Last Story or Pandora Tower. Hence, thanks to Operation Rainfall's efforts, not solely Nintendo's, in approx. one week, North American gamers will have their hands on a copy of Xenoblade Chronicles, a game one year ago Nintendo didn't believe was worth it. With the Last Story coming in June and Pandora' Tower now a possibility.

So, your assumption Operation Rainfall didn't do anything was a big, fat false. Second, your logic that Nintendo wanted Xenoblade and Last Story cause they were "great games" was proven wrong. Third, it shows one example why the modern video game industry is so messed up that a whole market is ignored thanks to some bean-counter in a corporate suit in his high office in his ivory tower somewhere is so tone-deaf and ignorant of gamer culture that they thought Fortune Street was a viable venture than Xenoblade. (For the record, Fortune Street sales = 120k, Xenoblade pre-orders = 170K. Suck it, corporate idiot.)


You're right, Atlus did all the heavy lifting, but it doesn't change the fact that Namco recognized a good game coupled with a good business model and made it an even larger success.

Then why didn't Namco outbid Atlus for Demon's Souls too? Cause Namco never thought it was a good venture until after it sold over a million overseas and now look like the dam bloodsucking parasites that they are for snatching Dark Souls from Atlus' rightful hands, after the fact. Once again, you're dam wrong. It ain't about the games....."it's the money, Lebowski."

[Bojay1997]

Again, you haven't provided any support for your argument. I'm not saying Nintendo of America made the decision alone, both games also depended on financial support from Gamestop and Xseed and the fact that they had already been fully converted for the Western market which Nintendo then agreed made the ventures viable. Operation Rainfall also did nothing to encourage the release of the three games in Europe and frankly, failed in getting Nintendo of America to timely release Xenoblade resulting in many people essentially having to double buy the game as they already imported it. Having said all that, I have no issue with people banding together and expressing their support for things to companies. I just don't agree that in this particular case it made much difference either way and in fact it may have slowed the process as Nintendo of America felt it would lose face by caving into pressure and couldn't immediately announce it was moving forward with the releases. I also have no problem with people supporting this Kickstarter as long as they are honest about what it is. It's simply a way of releasing one specific game in a physical edition but the company expects everyone to make it totally risk free and likely very profitable for them to do so.

You're right, it is about the money. That's how companies operate. This Kickstarter is 100% about the money as well. You are fully subsidizing a game that most people could care less about and will have a digital release regardless and essentially investing in a special edition with a huge proposed print run (at least in PSP terms) at a premium (other than DJ Max Portable 3, I am unaware of any US release PSP collector's edition in the $60 price range or higher). So, yes, Namco released Dark Souls because it looked likely to make them money and because it was a good game. If it was garbage, they wouldn't have bothered since they were only the publisher and not the developer.


:bullshit::bullshit::bullshit:

According the Nintendo of France.... (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/26928)



So yeah. Nintendo of America didn't want to localize Xenoblade Chronicles given
a) They showcased Xenoblade (aka Monado) at E3 2009 but not for following years at E3 2010 and 2011
b) NoE was handling the translation first, not NoA
c) NoA themselves saying they didn't think it was going to "sell".

Thus, if Nintendo of America weren't officially releasing Xenoblade, no way in hell we were getting Last Story or Pandora Tower. Hence, thanks to Operation Rainfall's efforts, not solely Nintendo's, in approx. one week, North American gamers will have their hands on a copy of Xenoblade Chronicles, a game one year ago Nintendo didn't believe was worth it. With the Last Story coming in June and Pandora' Tower now a possibility.

So, your assumption Operation Rainfall didn't do anything was a big, fat false. Second, your logic that Nintendo wanted Xenoblade and Last Story cause they were "great games" was proven wrong. Third, it shows one example why the modern video game industry is so messed up that a whole market is ignored thanks to some bean-counter in a corporate suit in his high office in his ivory tower somewhere is so tone-deaf and ignorant of gamer culture that they thought Fortune Street was a viable venture than Xenoblade. (For the record, Fortune Street sales = 120k, Xenoblade pre-orders = 170K. Suck it, corporate idiot.)



Then why didn't Namco outbid Atlus for Demon's Souls too? Cause Namco never thought it was a good venture until after it sold over a million overseas and now look like the dam bloodsucking parasites that they are for snatching Dark Souls from Atlus' rightful hands, after the fact. Once again, you're dam wrong. It ain't about the games....."it's the money, Lebowski."

[kupomogli]

So, yes, Namco released Dark Souls because it looked likely to make them money and because it was a good game. If it was garbage, they wouldn't have bothered since they were only the publisher and not the developer.

Namco Bandai announced Project Dark at TGS2010. There's no way they would have known it was garbage since it wasn't even a game. From what I've heard though, Project Dark is because they wanted to have a western style game and they had an agreement with FromSoftware to do so, and Armored Core 5 being published in the US was also part of this agreement.


Namco Bandai picked up Dark Souls because Atlus did tremendously well in the US with the earlier game Demon's Souls. I don't see how you can argue that either game is a Western oriented game. They are niche to an extreme and yet because they are great games, they both sold quite well.

I didn't reply to this previously, but what do you mean you don't get how Demon's Souls is a western oriented game? FromSoftware easily could be mistaken for a western developer if going by gameplay from any of the King's Field, Evergrace, Armored Core, Chromehounds, or Souls games. The style of gameplay for all these games and even presentation makes it look like a western style game with some subtle Japanese influences.

[Bojay1997]

Namco Bandai announced Project Dark at TGS2010. There's no way they would have known it was garbage since it wasn't even a game. From what I've heard though, Project Dark is because they wanted to have a western style game and they had an agreement with FromSoftware to do so, and Armored Core 5 being published in the US was also part of this agreement.



I didn't reply to this previously, but what do you mean you don't get how Demon's Souls is a western oriented game? FromSoftware easily could be mistaken for a western developer if going by gameplay from any of the King's Field, Evergrace, Armored Core, Chromehounds, or Souls games. The style of gameplay for all these games and even presentation makes it look like a western style game with some subtle Japanese influences.

How are any of those games "Western"? Just because they don't have cute characters doesn't make them Western. Those games sold far better in Japan then they ever did in the West, so they are at least as "Japanese" in appeal as they are "Western" whatever that means. I will agree that they are niche titles however, regardless of where they are released and given that all of them were released in the US, it's yet more evidence that good games get released over here if they can be profitable and not as the result of Internet campaigns or Kickstarter efforts.

[Edmond Dantes]

How are any of those games "Western"?

RPGs that encourage nonlinear exploration and experimenting with customer characterization as opposed to the standard linear quest with story-dictated characters. At least for KF and the Souls games, dunno about the others.

[kupomogli]

Edmond Dantes said it a bit better than I would have.

FromSoftware games are like western titles as they are somewhat open world and encourage you to explore rather than giving you a specific direction you must follow and/or offer much broader options for customization by not following any specific template.

What FromSoftware does though, is incorporates Japanese nuances into a game that's clearly a western design.

King's Field series, Eternal Ring, Shadow Tower, Dark Souls, Evergrace series, and to a lesser extent, Demon's Souls. You're dropped off at one point in the game, might hear a bit of storyline, and then you're free to proceed and make progress however you want. These games are open world, but unlike the Elder Scrolls titles, they don't have long stretches of nothing. You actually make progress in a timely fashion. Your characters are also customizable in their actions and how they will be played as. In Demon's Souls and Dark Souls mostly, but all of the games have a little depth in how your character will be built. Not as customizable as in the Elder Scrolls games, but again, progress to character types are made much more quickly.

Armored Core. It's always had an extremely deep level of customization where everything is taken into account. Even compared to the Mechwarrior series it has a much deeper level of customization. I've always seen the series as a much faster paced Mechwarrior. Chromehounds is Mechwarrior with the customization of Armored Core.

But look up and find where Namco Bandai stated that they wanted to expand into the western market, then after four failed games they said they're not going to use any western developers anymore as they were inefficient in comparison to Japanese developers. Then right after that they have an agreement with FromSoftware to develop Dark Souls. I'm certain their end goal was to break into the western market.

[Nz17]

Own a PSP? Like Class of Heroes? Want Vic Ireland's most deluxe Deluxe Edition... perhaps the most fancy-schmancy Premium Edition ever? Just want to support JRPGs in the West? Then look no further than the Super Mega Deluxe-su Edition of Class of Heroes 2!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1272149684/class-of-heroes-2-deluxe-for-the-psp-system

The good boys and girls over at Gaijinwork's new Kickstarter project are trying to amass $50K monies to make a megalu deluxe version of the game. How supreme will it be? Well...


Meeting the Kickstarter funding will allow:

* A Physical Deluxe Pack to be made
* English Voice Acting in the Digital and Physical releases
* English Opening Song and Video in both releases
* Extended game fixes and features (extra save slots, better controls, etc) for both releases
* Translation and release of Class of Heroes II webcomic series during development

Exceeding the funding limit by 15% will allow:

* Additional language localizations
* Clear license to retain Japanese audio option

What's in the Deluxe Pack?

* Deluxe blind-embossed box
* Soft faux-leather embossed manual/art book
* Arranged soundtrack CD
* Character Standees
* Game UMD

Three additional items will be voted on by backers from this list:
* Watch
* Pendant
* Cloth map
* Dagger letter opener
* Coin bank
* Inflatible sword
* Pen/pencil set

So check on out http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1272149684/class-of-heroes-2-deluxe-for-the-psp-system if you wanna make it happen. The time to contribute will end in 13 days from the date of this posting... so getcha pledgin'!

[Gameguy]

Meeting the Kickstarter funding will allow:

* A Physical Deluxe Pack to be made
* English Voice Acting in the Digital and Physical releases
* English Opening Song and Video in both releases
* Extended game fixes and features (extra save slots, better controls, etc) for both releases
* Translation and release of Class of Heroes II webcomic series during development

Exceeding the funding limit by 15% will allow:

* Additional language localizations
* Clear license to retain Japanese audio option
Does that mean that if the kickstarter funding doesn't meet it's goals the regular edition of the game won't contain any audio track at all?

[Press_Start]

First of all, the Kickstarter is asking 500K, no 50K.

Second, there's already a thread on the topic. (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?160941-WD-s-Victor-Ireland-is-Back!-(Oh-And-He-Wants-Half-A-Million-Bucks-))

[Nz17]

First of all, the Kickstarter is asking 500K, no 50K.

Second, there's already a thread on the topic. (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?160941-WD-s-Victor-Ireland-is-Back!-(Oh-And-He-Wants-Half-A-Million-Bucks-))

Well the 0 I hired for the role said it could do the work of two zeroes. I believed him, but he obviously didn't pull his weight and we're just going to have to hire a second 0. ;)

As far as there being another thread, well I just found out about this and my search for an existing topic only spanned the previous week of threads... the moral of the story is to make sure your search terms aren't too exclusive. :p But it makes me feel better to know that the two threads are now merged into one.


Does that mean that if the kickstarter funding doesn't meet it's goals the regular edition of the game won't contain any audio track at all?

The way I figure it is that if they don't mean their funding goal for this Kickstarter campaign that either means A) no Japanese nor English voices or B) no Japanese songs/singing. I don't imagine that Class of Heroes 2 has any singing in it though (Admittedly, I haven't played it so I wouldn't know.), thus I think he means no talkity-talk but there will still of course be English dialog to read either way.

Doesn't look like it was too bad of an idea for me to make a post about the topic anyway as nobody had mentioned the actual Kickstarter link until then. So while I'm at it... the short URL for the project is [ http://kck.st/HbYV1w ]. :D

That begs the question though: has anyone from here actually financially backed this project? :?

[Gameguy]

The way I figure it is that if they don't mean their funding goal for this Kickstarter campaign that either means A) no Japanese nor English voices or B) no Japanese songs/singing. I don't imagine that Class of Heroes 2 has any singing in it though (Admittedly, I haven't played it so I wouldn't know.), thus I think he means no talkity-talk but there will still of course be English dialog to read either way.
I forgot about dialog boxes like in old games, I thought he was just going to make a mime based RPG or something similar to Machinarium in terms of communication.

[old_skoolin_jim]

Jeez, what is his obsession with the damn character standees?!
I mean, good on him for getting back into the spotlight and such, but resurrecting the marketing tactics that killed off Working Designs in the first place probably isn't such a sound business strategy.

As for people questioning his personal character, just read his eBay feedback (if it's even still around)... I think his seller profile was "games_genie" or something along those lines. From what I recall, buyers would occasionally leave neutral or negative feedback because (surprise surprise) he would delay shipping products he sold, sometimes for weeks, and then berate the buyers for having the audacity to complain. Oh, and he would also sell sealed WD games and call buyers "mental" for opening them up. Also, if that XSeed boycott is true, then yes, he's kind of a self-centered dick.

That being said, I absolutely loved WD's efforts on the Sega CD, Saturn, and PS1, but the constant and never-ending delays on ALL their games just drove me bonkers. Vic, if you're lurking in the shadows of this forum, PICK AN ATTAINABLE RELEASE DATE AND STICK TO IT.

[xelement5x]

Also slightly on topic, he did a podcast on Anime News Network recently with the main guy from MonkeyPaw games. While part of it is the call for monies to make Class of Heroes II, it's also interesting to them recount some cool stories about Working Designs localizing games and the failure of the TurboGrafx.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2012-04-13

[TonyTheTiger]

Jeez, what is his obsession with the damn character standees?!
I mean, good on him for getting back into the spotlight and such, but resurrecting the marketing tactics that killed off Working Designs in the first place probably isn't such a sound business strategy.

That's most certainly not what killed Working Designs. From what I gather, the extra trinkets weren't a problem. The limited options of games to localize as well as a rather unfriendly atmosphere at Sony was.

[Daria]

Jeez, what is his obsession with the damn character standees?!
I mean, good on him for getting back into the spotlight and such, but resurrecting the marketing tactics that killed off Working Designs in the first place probably isn't such a sound business strategy.

As for people questioning his personal character, just read his eBay feedback (if it's even still around)... I think his seller profile was "games_genie" or something along those lines. From what I recall, buyers would occasionally leave neutral or negative feedback because (surprise surprise) he would delay shipping products he sold, sometimes for weeks, and then berate the buyers for having the audacity to complain. Oh, and he would also sell sealed WD games and call buyers "mental" for opening them up. Also, if that XSeed boycott is true, then yes, he's kind of a self-centered dick.

That being said, I absolutely loved WD's efforts on the Sega CD, Saturn, and PS1, but the constant and never-ending delays on ALL their games just drove me bonkers. Vic, if you're lurking in the shadows of this forum, PICK AN ATTAINABLE RELEASE DATE AND STICK TO IT.

I bought my Nall plush straight from Ireland on eBay, and he shipping was delayed a few weeks. But when I questioned him on it he apologized profusely, apparently Nall had fallen down behind a filing cabinet and missed his shipping date. So from my personal experience he was nothing but professional and courteous.

[TonyTheTiger]

I bought my Nall plush straight from Ireland on eBay, and he shipping was delayed a few weeks. But when I questioned him on it he apologized profusely, apparently Nall had fallen down behind a filing cabinet and missed his shipping date. So from my personal experience he was nothing but professional and courteous.

I'll one up you on that. I bought a couple things from him, too, and every single auction I've seen of his had a disclaimer right in the text that shipping would be delayed. He didn't really get into specifics but it's not like he wasn't being straight with people that the stuff might take 3-4 weeks to deliver. He was also friendly in the few emails we exchanged and gave some insight into Lunar sales figures (info he had no obligation to provide, mind you).

I don't know him personally by any stretch but from the many things I've read from people who do, Victor is a good guy who is also very passionate when he finds something he feels invested in, sometimes to the detriment of professional relationships. Not a small number of people have referred to him as a fanboy who happened to get a chance to "live the dream" so to speak. Some people refer to that phenomenon as the inmate running the asylum. I'd rather frame it as a guy who got a shot to do something he wanted to do when nobody else was doing it at the time. Regardless of whether or not the Working Designs philosophy is relevant in 2012 (I think it is albeit with perhaps some modifications), it sure as hell made a mark in the 90s. And I don't think that's something that can be pooh poohed without some revisionist history going on.

[Nz17]

Well $91,528 has been pledged to him thus far... but with only four days left in his Kickstarter campaign, I don't think they are going to make the goal.

[TonyTheTiger]

Regardless of the merit, $500,000 is probably too much for anything on Kickstarter. It's not so much a lack of interest as it is a rather insurmountable number value. That's the sad part. You've got plenty of interest, if only judging by the number of people who've pledged, even without sufficient advertising. But it's just too much money to expect a fan community to generate regardless of how large and willing that community may be.

[Bojay1997]

Regardless of the merit, $500,000 is probably too much for anything on Kickstarter. It's not so much a lack of interest as it is a rather insurmountable number value. That's the sad part. You've got plenty of interest, if only judging by the number of people who've pledged, even without sufficient advertising. But it's just too much money to expect a fan community to generate regardless of how large and willing that community may be.

Disagree. There are only 830 people backing this effort which is really pretty terrible regardless of the absurdly high goal of $500K. There really isn't much interest in this game or in Vic's plan. I have seen much more amateur and less publicized efforts attract literally thousands of contributors and far more than the $91K or so pledged so far. Vic just didn't plan this campaign well and frankly, he has received plenty of coverage in the mainstream gaming press, at least as much as efforts like the Leisure Suit Larry remake or the Jane Jensen package, both of which look like they will fund relatively soon.

[TonyTheTiger]

Disagree. There are only 830 people backing this effort which is really pretty terrible regardless of the absurdly high goal of $500K.

Yes, but about 90% have pledged $60 or more which essentially qualifies as a fully paid preorder and then some. Of those 830 people, about 740 have committed to at minimum buying the game. For a no-name niche PSP title by a guy who's last major release was in 2004, getting that kind of commitment from the small number of people who even knew about the campaign isn't too bad. Had the goal been $200,000 and had there been better marketing, I think it could have worked. But $500,000? I doubt EA could raise that much via Kickstarter.


There really isn't much interest in this game or in Vic's plan. I have seen much more amateur and less publicized efforts attract literally thousands of contributors and far more than the $91K or so pledged so far. Vic just didn't plan this campaign well and frankly, he has received plenty of coverage in the mainstream gaming press, at least as much as efforts like the Leisure Suit Larry remake or the Jane Jensen package, both of which look like they will fund relatively soon.

I think you're overemphasizing the amount of coverage. It took this thread to put me on notice, for instance. And, even among the places that have mentioned it, the information itself just isn't clear. There weren't any videos, for example. Victor hadn't provided any early on because it was all in Japanese but people clearly wanted to know WTF they were being asked to invest in. Meanwhile, people know Leisure Suit Larry. There was a lot of high concept "Working Designs redux!" talk but very little talk about the actual product which was the ultimate mistake, I think. That must have hurt the campaign. It just wasn't well composed. It seems like it was anchored on "hey, that guy who made that game you liked in the 90s wants to do it again." And then to make matters worse, when people see the goal many probably scoff.

[Bojay1997]

Except he has stated repeatedly that the project won't be financially viable unless he gets a minimum of 7,000 preorders. So, he only really hit 10% of his target regardless of the $500K overall goal. Even no-name niche PSP titles sell several thousand copies on PSN, so it's just more evidence that there was very, very minimal support for this whole effort. Heck, even homebrews on AtariAge can sell a couple hundred copies with zero publicity and no real marketing whatsoever.

As for raising $500K, there are plenty of other gaming efforts that have raised tons more than that. In fact, as I stated earlier, the Leisure Suit Larry remake is almost at $500K and of course the Double Fine and Wasteland Kickstarters raised several times more than that, both of which were sight unseen with games at least a year off. Now I agree they are higher visibility titles with larger potential fanbases, but they also set realistic goals and did things in a more organized manner.

As for the publicity, I strongly disagree that Vic's project got less coverage than the others. In fact, I have seen almost no coverage of the Leisure Suit Larry or Jane Jensen projects and both have far more backers and funds raised than this one. I saw literally zero coverage of Banner Saga and that did 20K supporters and over $700K for a tiny niche new IP about Vikings. Vic's project appeared at least once on every forum and news site I visit regularly and even made appearances in places it didn't belong like the deals forum of Cheap Ass Gamer, a forum with tens of thousands of unique visitors a day.

In the end, he picked the wrong game, wanted too much money and frankly was too out of touch with the fanbase to make this project a success. As I stated earlier, this isn't 1994, there are so many other means of getting niche titles whether it's over a download service or in a deluxe retail package through Atlus, Xseed, etc...that releasing a deluxe version of a game few people even want was never a viable plan whether he had sought $500K or not.


Yes, but about 90% have pledged $60 or more which essentially qualifies as a fully paid preorder and then some. Of those 830 people, about 740 have committed to at minimum buying the game. For a no-name niche PSP title by a guy who's last major release was in 2004, getting that kind of commitment from the small number of people who even knew about the campaign isn't too bad. Had the goal been $200,000 and had there been better marketing, I think it could have worked. But $500,000? I doubt EA could raise that much via Kickstarter.



I think you're overemphasizing the amount of coverage. It took this thread to put me on notice, for instance. And, even among the places that have mentioned it, the information itself just isn't clear. There weren't any videos, for example. Victor hadn't provided any early on because it was all in Japanese but people clearly wanted to know WTF they were being asked to invest in. Meanwhile, people know Leisure Suit Larry. There was a lot of high concept "Working Designs redux!" talk but very little talk about the actual product which was the ultimate mistake, I think. That must have hurt the campaign. It just wasn't well composed. It seems like it was anchored on "hey, that guy who made that game you liked in the 90s wants to do it again." And then to make matters worse, when people see the goal many probably scoff.

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't get the impression that this was specifically about Class of Heroes II. It seems to me that he wants to get back into the physical market. Making the jump from digital releases to physical ones is tough. Now maybe he can work baby steps and build capital through digital games to, at some point, enter the physical market with perhaps a better title he'd acquire with that capital. This project seems to have been an attempt to circumvent that process had there been the interest. Regardless of this particular failure, it doesn't mean the opportunity will never present itself down the line. It just means Ireland can't do it right this very minute with this very game.

Kickstarter itself probably muddied the issue, too. 7000 preorders is a lot but that number, at least, does not sound especially unreachable. The problem with Kickstarter is that it can be somewhat wishy washy and off putting to people not familiar with it. First, you have to actually register. The attrition rate of potentially interested people is probably shockingly high right at the gate for that very reason. Then you have the trouble of dealing with different dollar values with how much each person is asked to invest and also what the investment is specifically for. Consumers aren't in the business of investing in game companies and parsing all that. They're in the business of buying games. If Victor had promoted a simple preorder program with a flat cost (pretty much what Super Fighter Team does) with the caveat that the project will only go forward if the 7000 goal is met, it might have seen better performance. It may not have hit the 7000 but it probably would have gotten a hell of a lot closer if it were a program specifically tailored to simply selling the game to people accustomed to buying games.

[wingzrow]

You would think he would have tried localizing valkyria chronicles 3 or one of the monster hunter games. At least those games had an established fanbase.

[TonyTheTiger]

It's not so simple. Just because he may want a game doesn't mean he can get it. First, the original publisher may want too much for it. Second, they may not want to deal with a third party at all. Do you really think Sega or Capcom are going to give anything more than a "thanks but no thanks" to a small fry publisher?

[Bojay1997]

That was the biggest problem from my perspective. He kept making vague promises about other physical releases, none of which there was any evidence he could deliver, but everyone was required to buy or at least contribute to a deluxe edition of a game very few people wanted to purportedly move his plans forward in that way. As I expressed early on, I don't agree that Kickstarter is a proper vehicle for commercial projects of this type. It would have been very easy for him to simply open up a pre-order process on a website or even through Amazon marketplace and just take orders for the game at $60 a pop pre-paid. If he hit his target number, it moved forward and if not, it didn't. He already said the game is going to get a digital release, so other than collecting the pre-order money for the physical version, there wasn't really a need to start a campaign of this type despite his vague references to adding voice over and a few other features if the project funded.

I don't agree with you that Kickstarter places too many barriers for people to contribute or that it's confusing. Tens of thousands of people contributed to Wasteland 2, Double Fine, Banner Saga, Jane Jensen, Leisure Suit Larry, etc...Yes, not everyone has a credit card and not everyone likes using Amazon payments, but more than enough JRPG fans certainly could have made this happen if they really cared about it. Unfortunately, very few people did and ultimately, that's why it failed.


I don't get the impression that this was specifically about Class of Heroes 2. It seems to me that he wants to get back into the physical market. Making the jump from digital releases to physical ones is tough. Now maybe he can work baby steps and build capital through digital games to, at some point, enter the physical market with perhaps a better title he'd acquire with that capital. This project seems to have been an attempt to circumvent that process had there been the interest. Regardless of this particular failure, it doesn't mean the opportunity will never present itself down the line. It just means Ireland can't do it right this very minute with this very game.

Kickstarter itself probably muddied the issue. 7000 preorders is a lot but that number, at least, does not sound especially unreachable. The problem with Kickstarter is that it can be somewhat wishy washy. First, you have to actually register. The attrition rate of potentially interested people is probably shockingly high right at the gate for that very reason. Then you have the trouble of dealing with different dollar values with how much each person is asked to invest and also what the investment is specifically for. Consumers aren't in the business of investing in game companies and parsing all that. They're in the business of buying games. If Victor had promoted a simple preorder program with a flat cost (pretty much what Super Fighter Team does) with the caveat that the project will only go forward if the 7000 goal is met, it might have seen better performance. It may not have hit the 7000 but it probably would have gotten a hell of a lot closer if it were a program specifically tailored to simply selling the game to people accustomed to buying games.

[wingzrow]

It's not so simple. Just because he may want a game doesn't mean he can get it. First, the original publisher may want too much for it. Second, they may not want to deal with a third party at all. Do you really think Sega or Capcom are going to give anything more than a "thanks but no thanks" to a small fry publisher?

I don't understand how these companies work to be honest. Why not? It's brand recognition, they don't have waste resources on it, the fans get what they want, the developer gets money. The only case I can think of where this might be a bad idea is when a game already has too much saturation, but this late in a system's life I can see why in this specific case it wouldn't work.

He should have tried this a few years ago, when the PSP still had some steam.

[j_factor]

In the end, he picked the wrong game

I think this is the bottom line. Class of Heroes just wasn't a very good game. He should have found something better.

[TonyTheTiger]

Nah, because it shouldn't be about JRPG fans jumping through the Kickstarter hoop to make something happen. It should be about selling a game to people regardless of their implicit associations. JRPG fans want to buy RPGs, not invest in RPG companies. Therefore, you don't gauge interest by asking them to navigate perhaps unfamiliar channels like Kickstarter. You will lose people just from that. The act of having to register is a seemingly small barrier but you'd be amazed at how many people look at "register username/password" pages and say "eh, fuck it." You can just look at any website's stats to see for yourself. The difference between "number of users online" vs. "registered users online" can be tremendous at times.

And then, of course, there is the simple fact that when presented with Kickstarter you aren't immediately made aware that you are going to acquire the game as a result of investing a certain amount. You have to read the page for that. TL;DR is not just a euphamism. Think of how many "JRPG fans" would have had to register and invest to hit $500,000 if they were hitting the smaller "support" amounts like $20. That number is staggering. Meanwhile, putting out a $60 preorder campaign with no Kickstarter funny business is simple, direct, and makes clear exactly what the deal is.

Essentially, I think Victor Ireland may have been too up front about things. People don't really want or need to know what he plans to do in the future or where the dollars are going. They just want to buy games. And Kickstarter made it somewhat difficult to make clear that, yes, you are being offered the opportunity to buy the game. In fact, that's why the number is so skewed in favor of the higher amounts. Of the people who did jump through the hoops, the overwhelming majority decided to use it as essentially a preorder process anyway. So why the extra hurdles? It's like GameStop asking people to preorder games and then making them complete a Sudoku puzzle before they can actually pay for it. You're going to lose a lot of people that way.

Yes, maybe the game itself just wasn't right for the project. But using Kickstarter must have made it worse. And this is coming from a guy who did invest ($59 option).


I don't understand how these companies work to be honest. Why not? It's brand recognition, they don't have waste resources on it, the fans get what they want, the developer gets money. The only case I can think of where this might be a bad idea is when a game already has too much saturation, but this late in a system's life I can see why in this specific case it wouldn't work.

He should have tried this a few years ago, when the PSP still had some steam.

Well, to put it in perspective, Victor Ireland got his start by making unsolicited calls to Japanese publishers and simply bothering them nonstop until they stopped saying no. So even in the early 90s it wasn't so easy. Today? It's probably exponentionally harder.

[Bojay1997]

I'm guessing you haven't been following all of the Kickstarter games that have fully funded and over funded since Double Fine? Shadowrun, Banner Saga, Wasteland 2 all brought in far more than they asked for and Leisure Suit Larry is within $50K of its $500K goal with nine days to go. People have no problems contributing if it's something they want and contrary to your assertions, I think gamers are among the most progressive/forward thinking and tech savvy of anyone out there in society. Sure, some people are put off by privacy concerns or having to register or needing a credit card, but let's be honest, if you pre-order games on Amazon or any other on-line site, the process is identical. The only people excluded by Kickstarter are those who regularly walk into Gamestop with cash to pre-order or never pre-order anything and while that's some percentage of JRPG fans, it's not most of them.

I also don't think Kickstarter is all that confusing. If done correctly, it's very clear what you will receive if the project funds for your contribution. Personally, I have contributed to Double Fine, Shadowrun, Wasteland 2, Leisure Suit Larry, Jane Jenson and even this doomed project. I'm not confused in any way by what happens if the project funds. It states very clearly what you will get when you confirm your contribution as well as clearly laying it out along the right side of the description when you browse Kickstarter.

Finally, Vic was not clear enough in my opinion. Many people who contributed did so to support the general idea of localizing more games in physical release deluxe versions. I don't know many people who stated that they really cared about Class of Heroes II in any way. I can only imagine how many hundred fewer contributions there would have been if it was literally just Class of Heroes II that Vic was talking about. Having said that, I think trying to promote this release based on non-specific future releases was dishonest at best as ultimately, it's not clear that even if this funded that Vic would be able to convince other publishers or developers to license games for similar campaigns.

I do agree with you that a simple pre-order campaign would have been better and perhaps more successful, but ultimately, it also would have failed unfortunately given the current PSP user base and the general lack of interest in this particular game series.


Nah, because it shouldn't be about JRPG fans jumping through the Kickstarter hoop to make something happen. It should be about selling a game to people regardless of their implicit associations. The act of having to register is a seemingly small barrier but you'd be amazed at how many people look at "register username/password" pages and say "eh, fuck it." You can just look at any website's stats to see for yourself. The difference between "number of users online" vs. "registered users online" can be tremendous at times.

And then, of course, there is the simple fact that when presented with Kickstarter you aren't immediately made aware that you are going to acquire the game as a result of investing a certain amount. You have to read the page for that. TL;DR is not just a euphamism. Think of how many "JRPG fans" would have had to register and invest to hit $500,000. Unless there are an inordinate of very well off people willing to drop a grand each, the number is staggering. Meanwhile, putting out a $60 preorder campaign with no Kickstarter funny business is simple, direct, and makes clear exactly what the deal is.

Essentially, I think Victor Ireland may have been too up front about things. People don't really want or need to know what he plans to do in the future. They just want to buy games. And Kickstarter made it somewhat difficult to make clear that, yes, you are being offered the opportunity to buy the game.

Yes, maybe the game itself just wasn't right for the project. But using Kickstarter certainly didn't help.



Well, to put it in perspective, Victor Ireland got his start by making unsolicited calls to Japanese publishers and simply bothering them nonstop until they stopped saying no. So even in the early 90s it wasn't so easy. Today? It's probably exponentionally harder.

[TonyTheTiger]

Again, the difference between those other games is that there seems to be a clearer reason to use Kickstarter as opposed to some other method. And I still disagree about the Class of Heroes II project being anywhere near as well advertised as those. I just looked. Not seeing it.

If you're saying that the project would have failed no matter the method used, I'd concede that possibility, even perhaps likelihood. But if you're saying that it would have failed by as much as it did had it used a simpler method than Kickstarter, I vehemently disagree. I think Kickstarter took what was a very simple concept and made it needlessly complex. And that alone chases people away. It's not about understanding it. It's about not wanting to bother with it. Anybody will tell you that the more complex something becomes the more people will just lose interest. Make things as simple as they can realistically be is a virtue in everything under the sun. Tech savvy people are just as susceptible to it. Just let people buy the game and the numbers would have been higher. I don't know how much higher but they'd be higher.

[Press_Start]

I said it before in another thread and I'll say it again.

Vic Ireland should do what he does best....reviving old ass retro classics we never would got here in USA. Moon Crystal, Radia War, Super Adventure Island 4, Baby Upa, Kid Dracula, Sweet Home, Titan Warriors, Penguin Dream Adventures, Splatterhouse (NES), Robocco Wars, Getsu Fuma Den, Dragon Scroll, Silva Saga, Holy Diver, Nadia, Samurai Pizza Cats, Zombie Hunter, Secret Ties, Sunman, Solomon's Key 2, Bio Force Ape, King Kong, Mr. Gimmick, Twinbee, Greylancer, Battlemania 2, Monster World 4, F-Zero 2, Bahamut Lagoon, Clock Tower, King of Demons, The Firemen, Wonder Project J, Terranigma, Mystical Ninja 2 3 & 4, etc.

Best of all, no one's seriously tapped into this endless golden honeypot yet. Licensing probably far cheaper and the tinge of nostalgia for 8-bit/16-bit games would attract tons of old-school fans out of the woodwork to donate if physical carts were involved somewhat. I would anyway. :D

[Bojay1997]

I said it before in another thread and I'll say it again.

Vic Ireland should do what he does best....reviving old ass retro classics we never would got here in USA.

Licensing probably far cheaper and the tinge of nostalgia for 8-bit/16-bit games would attract tons of old-school fans out of the woodwork to donate if physical carts were involved somewhat. I would anyway. :D

I'm not following, when has Vic Ireland ever really focused on reviving old retro classics that were unreleased in the US? I know Gaijingames has worked with other companies to do digital releases of old WD games, but none of what they have re-released was ever unreleased in the US. With the exception of the Lunar remakes for PS1, everything WD ever localized was a current generation game. Also, how much money do you really think can be made releasing games very few people have ever heard of on long dead systems that most people don't have or care about on physical media? That's a niche of a niche of a niche if I've ever seen one.

[Bojay1997]

Again, the difference between those other games is that there seems to be a clearer reason to use Kickstarter as opposed to some other method. And I still disagree about the Class of Heroes II project being anywhere near as well advertised as those. I just looked. Not seeing it.

If you're saying that the project would have failed no matter the method used, I'd concede that possibility, even perhaps likelihood. But if you're saying that it would have failed by as much as it did had it used a simpler method than Kickstarter, I vehemently disagree. I think Kickstarter took what was a very simple concept and made it needlessly complex. And that alone chases people away. It's not about understanding it. It's about not wanting to bother with it. Anybody will tell you that the more complex something becomes the more people will just lose interest. Make things as simple as they can realistically be is a virtue in everything under the sun. Tech savvy people are just as susceptible to it. Just let people buy the game and the numbers would have been higher. I don't know how much higher but they'd be higher.

Where did you look? If you do a Google search with Class of Heroes II and Kickstarter, you will see the story was printed on literally hundreds of other sites including Wired magazine's video games site, Joystiq, Kotaku, Siliconera, Destructoid, Gamespot, G4, Neogaf, Cheap Ass Gamer, Pocket Gamer, Blu Ray Forums, a number of Anime sites and dozens of other publisher forums like NIS, Xseed, etc...Many of those sites even did follow-up stories. I guess I'm not aware of what other media could have been used other than print which frankly is a bit of a non-factor for short term projects like this given the huge lead times even today to get stuff printed and distributed. This project got a lot more buzz than Leisure Suit Larry and Jane Jensen both of which I found almost totally by accident on adventure gaming sites.

As for Kickstarter adding a layer of complexity, I disagree. If anything, it's too simple to donate as my credit card bill this month will attest. It's literally two clicks and a password entry and you are supporting the project. It was no more or less complex than pre-ordering a game on Amazon. I will agree that it adds an additional element of uncertainty because you don't know if the project will fund or not and you never really know when it will be delivered, but that's true of many niche titles anyway today as release dates are always changing and games still get cancelled from time to time. I'm not going to dispute that some people may have been put off by having to go through Kickstarter, but I just don't think most gamers are that lazy and they certainly are generous as has been proven time and time again with Child's Play, donations to the Classic Videogame Museum and other charitable projects. This was just not a well thought out project which was executed very poorly which in the end is why it failed.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think whenever you add needless extra layers and barriers, however small they may be, you increase the odds that interested people who'd have jumped on a simpler scheme will drop off the second you start compounding it. It's just human nature and it's not worth the risk. If the extra layers are necessary, fine. But if they aren't, you only stand to hurt yourself.

I'd argue another reason why some of those other Kickstarters are performing so much better (aside from the obvious name recognition). There seems to be much less at stake for Class of Heroes II. Class of Heroes II is still getting made regardless. The Kickstarter is for a bonus. That's going to reduce the urgency of it by a long shot. It becomes a niche of a niche. You're not attracting JRPG fans. You're attracting JRPG fans who give a shit about deluxe packaging. In other words, this Kickstarter has very little to do with the game itself. There is a major difference between "I'd like to play this game" and "I like this game SO much that I want it to have five star deluxe treatment instead of remain an ordinary digital download." If Victor had left all that out and just said "we want to get this game to you but need preorders to make it happen" it likely would have seen more people jumping on board than have here. As it stands, people who'd want Class of Heroes II (or whatever game it could have been, for that matter) aren't really losing anything by not participating. Most people are pretty OK with digital games.

[Press_Start]

I'm not following, when has Vic Ireland ever really focused on reviving old retro classics that were unreleased in the US? I know Gaijingames has worked with other companies to do digital releases of old WD games, but none of what they have re-released was ever unreleased in the US. With the exception of the Lunar remakes for PS1, everything WD ever localized was a current generation game. Also, how much money do you really think can be made releasing games very few people have ever heard of on long dead systems that most people don't have or care about on physical media? That's a niche of a niche of a niche if I've ever seen one.

Popful Mail, Lunar, Exile, Arc the Lad, etc. Sure they weren't "retro" at the time but they might well be considered "unreleased" if it weren't for Vic and WD. Hey, no one's heard of Class of Heroes 2 either, an average-looking sequel to an average-looking dungeon-crawler that, just on Victor Ireland's celebrity alone, garnered nearly $100K including a $10K donor, a $5K donor, over half a dozen grand donors, and dozens giving $200 or more. That's impressive for only a modern niche game in its own right.

Imagine starting a new Kickstarter, assuming better organization and moderately reasonable goals, for three awesome "Lost Classics" available for digital distribution (VC, XBLA, PSN, Steam, etc) AND....offering nostalgic bonuses like authentic NES grey cart copies, "Zelda" gold carts, CIB packages, CIB gold packages, etc. for each successful level. And don't say they can't, Bojay. Airline tickets, music boxes, engraved pocket watches....they were willing to go the distance. I can't say why not for this and think will be vastly more successful thanks to the thousands Japanese classics readily, cheaply available and simply taking advantage of the wave of nostalgia for 20s-30s that flourished within the last 5 years. Sure, it ain't a million sales winner but doesn't need to be.

[Bojay1997]

Well, they have heard of Class of Heroes which saw retail distribution as a result of Atlus publishing it a few years ago. Sure, in its time WD localized a number of niche current generation games that were unreleased in the US. I own a complete set of WD releases on every platform they ever supported, so I'm hardly unaware of their contribution. Today, there are lots of companies that do the same thing including Aksys, Atlus, Xseed, Rising Star Games and NIS. You can argue about this all you want, but they only secured around 750 people who actually committed to pay the $60+ it would have cost to obtain a physical copy of Class of Heroes II. While 750 people isn't insignificant, according to Mr. Ireland's own posts, he needed 7K people pre-ordering at $60 or above for the project to make financial sense. In that respect, the Kickstarter wasn't even close.

I agree that there is a market for niche digital games. A small market, but one that could be self-sustaining for a small publisher. Unfortunately, Vic and Gaijinworks aren't really that interested in supporting that market as his own comments on various sites in connection with this Kickstarter have shown. Vic is looking to release the same kind of physical collector's editions that WD was doing a decade ago. Unfortunately, he's a day late and many dollars short to the party.



Popful Mail, Lunar, Exile, Arc the Lad, etc. Sure they weren't "retro" at the time but they might well be considered "unreleased" if it weren't for Vic and WD. Hey, no one's heard of Class of Heroes 2 either, an average-looking sequel to an average-looking dungeon-crawler that, just on Victor Ireland's celebrity alone, garnered nearly $100K including a $10K donor, a $5K donor, over half a dozen grand donors, and dozens giving $200 or more. That's impressive for only a modern niche game in its own right.

Imagine starting a new Kickstarter, assuming better organization and moderately reasonable goals, for three awesome "Lost Classics" available for digital distribution (VC, XBLA, PSN, Steam, etc) AND....offering nostalgic bonuses like authentic NES grey cart copies, "Zelda" gold carts, CIB packages, CIB gold packages, etc. for each successful level. And don't say they can't, Bojay. Airline tickets, music boxes, engraved pocket watches....they were willing to go the distance. I can't say why not for this and think will be vastly more successful thanks to the thousands Japanese classics readily, cheaply available and simply taking advantage of the wave of nostalgia for 20s-30s that flourished within the last 5 years. Sure, it ain't a million sales winner but doesn't need to be.