Socks the Cat Rocks the Hill

[badinsults]

A lot of people are interested in this game, so I decided to delve into it and try to find as much information as possible. Games based on Socks the Cat were in development for both the Genesis and SNES, and it appears that the SNES version was completed at least.

http://www.snescentral.com/article.php?id=0094

[snes_collector]

Awesome article. I really do hope the prototype will get dumped someday so everyone will have a chance to try it out.

[Gunstar Hero]

DreamTR is a member here on DP! Someone has to try to convince him to dump the game!

[JSoup]

I seem to have a memory of a topic like this on DP from years ago. The idea to dump the ROM was brought up, but then forgotten for any number of reasons.

Edit: Here's the topic I was thinking of: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?112282-Socks-the-Cat-Rocks-the-Hill&highlight=Socks+the+Cat

ROM dump wasn't brought up, but there is a pic of the proto.

[Parodius Duh!]

Yeah its completed, DreamTR owns it and hes looking to sell it, at least he says that in the NA thread about it.....dont count your chickens on a free dump. Maybe we can pool together the $5,000+ he wants for it, then dump it.

[Greg2600]

Or you can trade him an NES Stadium Events! Doubt it will ever be released. Someone will be losing a ton of money by doing so.

Great writeup on it Evan, as always.

[Parodius Duh!]

I wonder if DreamTR would be willing to start a Kickstarter page, that way anyone interested could donate towards a dump.....Hell, even if he didnt want to maintain a Kickstarter page Id do it for him.

[megasdkirby]

I wonder if DreamTR would be willing to start a Kickstarter page, that way anyone interested could donate towards a dump.....Hell, even if he didnt want to maintain a Kickstarter page Id do it for him.

If he wants $10,000 for it and Kickstarter reachers that amount, I would not be surprised if he either:

1)Changes his mind, or

2)Requests the amount be risen to double or triple that.

It all depend$ on $everal factor$.

[XYXZYZ]

I wonder what's the plot of the game?
http://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/gallery/socks-the-cat/socks.jpg

"Oh no! The evil republican rats have stolen all of the cocaine President Clinton received from financial industry lobbyists during his election campaign! It's up to Socks the Cat to catch those rats, and get back Slick Willy J's favorite kind of blow! Can socks recover the cocaine in time for the NAFTA signing party with the President's criminal business friends in the agricultural industry?"

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4C1ZwEub0Po/SuY3LpTAvgI/AAAAAAAAAkc/MecfjirbYQA/s400/socks_the_cat_photogs.jpg
PROTIP: Don't let photographers take pictures of the documents detailing the money laundering operation for Clinton's illegal campaign contributions from China!


NOW we know why the CIA stopped the game from being published!

[badinsults]

I wouldn't put your hopes on a fundraiser. It has always been clear that DreamTR has no intention of selling or sharing this. The huge sums he wants for it is merely a big troll (as was the video), and I'm sure he is getting a kick out of it. I will backhand anyone who even attempts pays $5000+ for this.

[DreamTR]

A lot of people are interested in this game, so I decided to delve into it and try to find as much information as possible. Games based on Socks the Cat were in development for both the Genesis and SNES, and it appears that the SNES version was completed at least.

http://www.snescentral.com/article.php?id=0094

Major inaccuracy in your article. Not asking 10K, asking 4K, and on top of that, I didn't "create" that video, my friend Richard did when I was playing it at my house. His idea his deal. My YouTube name is DreamTR and I don't even know how to upload a video but that is besides the point so I'd appreciate the change. So who's trolling? It's not me, but good job thinking it was me even though Richard is the one doing all that. I have been serious about it being for sale the whole time. Everyone has said they wanted it. Here it is. Said that numerous times on NA.

I don't think 4K for an unreleased proto is unfair at all, I mean, what do you guys want me to do? First it's dump this for XXX people hate that, so I offer the thing up and considering it's one of a kind I can ask my price. Heck, shit sells for more than $5000 all the time but this is being questioned? Sometimes I have to shake my head at what people "perceive" to be valuable and in my opinion $4000 for this game is a very fair price especially if people are paying 5 figures for factory sealed VGA stuff, wow.

I mean, it's obvious this lit a fire or this article wouldn't be done. The fact is if another one was found (which I am sure you tried to locate) it won't affect me because I'm not desperate for the cash. However, I am a businessman, it's a one of kind item, and yet the perception is I am asking too much but Stadium Events Box and manual goes for 10K released and no one blinks an eye?

I'm not giving away something for free. People can buy it. I said I would NEVER part with this but even with me opening the vault for this I am still getting the third degree about it.

This is why Richard made that video...I was showing him some stuff I had and he KNEW people cared about it so much and to me it's just something else I have but money can always be spent on other things. Considering how much prototype stuff I have dumped/released; etc people will still still still still say I hoard and won't share things. It's like the biggest dead horse beating ever but whatever...

So to close this response with anything meaningful. It's $4000. Nothing more, nothing less. Actual cart, not a dump. I have many interested parties supposedly raising cash but the first person to come to me with it gets it. First dibs to anyone planning a release with it because that is what I want to see but I'm definitely not doing one myself.

Hopefully that straigtens up the inaccurate comments/history about myself and this game.

[ProgrammingAce]

I have been serious about it being for sale the whole time. Everyone has said they wanted it. Here it is. Said that numerous times on NA.

You were never serious about selling it. I put together a serious offer, and you gave me some bullshit about having to have the money in your hand before midnight... blah blah blah...

I believe this was your exact quote:

Clock is ticking...Feb 29 at 1159pm CST then it goes back up to silliness...definitely a lot better than hanging out in my drawer and never coming out ever which was my original stance. Honestly I am surprised I still have it =)

That's not the kind of statement I want to hear from someone i'm about to give $5,000. And it was $5,000 so your correction needs a correction.


.heck, I'll say $5000 and I will send the game to whoever comes up with the money

[Ryaan1234]

Major inaccuracy in your article. Not asking 10K, asking 4K, and on top of that...
Major inaccuracy in your reading comprehension. Evan wrote, and I quote "Unfortunately, he wants an item that costs the equivalent of about $10,000 for the game, so it is unlikely that anyone is going to be playing this anytime soon". In the NintendoAge thread in question (seriously, Evan really should cite some sources) you said you wanted to trade it for a Medieval Madness pinball machine. The lowest priced one of those I see on eBay is over $11,000 so I can see where Evan got that figure. I believe Evan started writing that article at the time you had made that first statement, before you changed your price to $5k, then $4k, so at least you are right in that respect.



I didn't "create" that video, my friend Richard did when I was playing it at my house. His idea his deal. My YouTube name is DreamTR and I don't even know how to upload a video but that is besides the point so I'd appreciate the change. So who's trolling? It's not me, but good job thinking it was me even though Richard is the one doing all that. I have been serious about it being for sale the whole time. Everyone has said they wanted it. Here it is. Said that numerous times on NA.
Please forgive me for not knowing specifically where you said it, but I recall you saying either on here, or on NintendoAge (I'll start looking now) that you thought up and uploaded that video basically with the intent of trolling everyone.



I don't think 4K for an unreleased proto is unfair at all, I mean, what do you guys want me to do? First it's dump this for XXX people hate that, so I offer the thing up and considering it's one of a kind I can ask my price. Heck, shit sells for more than $5000 all the time but this is being questioned? Sometimes I have to shake my head at what people "perceive" to be valuable and in my opinion $4000 for this game is a very fair price especially if people are paying 5 figures for factory sealed VGA stuff, wow.
$4k may be fair for a completely unique game, but to a lot of people it does seem dickish to demand money for the game. I really don't know what to think about it, but I can see why it pisses off a lot of people.

[DreamTR]

You were never serious about selling it. I put together a serious offer, and you gave me some bullshit about having to have the money in your hand before midnight... blah blah blah...

I believe this was your exact quote:


That's not the kind of statement I want to hear from someone i'm about to give $5,000. And it was $5,000 so your correction needs a correction.

It was a joke. You took it seriously. I lowered the price to $4,000 awhile ago. It's on NA. People here don't read NA very often I have noticed.

Any serious offers towards the game would have been directed to me in a PM and not haphazardly in a forum posting.

[DreamTR]

Major inaccuracy in your reading comprehension. Evan wrote, and I quote "Unfortunately, he wants an item that costs the equivalent of about $10,000 for the game, so it is unlikely that anyone is going to be playing this anytime soon". In the NintendoAge thread in question (seriously, Evan really should cite some sources) you said you wanted to trade it for a Medieval Madness pinball machine. The lowest priced one of those I see on eBay is over $11,000 so I can see where Evan got that figure. I believe Evan started writing that article at the time you had made that first statement, before you changed your price to $5k, then $4k, so at least you are right in that respect.


Please forgive me for not knowing specifically where you said it, but I recall you saying either on here, or on NintendoAge (I'll start looking now) that you thought up and uploaded that video basically with the intent of trolling everyone.


$4k may be fair for a completely unique game, but to a lot of people it does seem dickish to demand money for the game. I really don't know what to think about it, but I can see why it pisses off a lot of people.

I might have misquoted myself but you can plainly see from the YouTube name that is not me. I have my own account on YouTube. If I misquoted myself then it is Richard who should be known as SlowJamzMixTapes or something was the one who concocted the idea of posting it.

Why would me asking for the most money for a game not available anywhere would piss off people?

You see, this is the problem I have. It's ok to ask for a lot of money for something that is not a prototype but I am expected to give it away for free? Really? Would you give me your car because, well, I want it?

I piss people off by owning it. I say give me money then, they won't do it. People expect protos to be dumped for free regardless of how much money was spent on the item and won't pick up the slack themselves and purchase it.

It's here, buy it. It is besides the point, I've has a For Sale thread up for awhile in NA with the game listed as well and I just locked it so I can do another thread since I have so many threads going on but it's there for 4K....

[DreamTR]

Bottom line again is the game is for sale. Anyone "serious" has PMed me. Anyone who knows me and has dealt with me knows I am a serious seller. If people can't understand that and don't PM me about it that's another story but there are 4 interested parties some with fundraisers, some without, some waiting on Tax returns, etc, it boils down to everyone wants to play it, but expects me to give it away. I had it locked up for a long time, Richard made that video, everyone got all angry about it, so I said "fine, I'll sell it" and everyone was still up in arms about it.

This is precisely why I don't even bother with prototypes much anymore because of the sheer ridiculousness out there with the expectations involved with them.

The realization that all that work I went through to find half of this stuff people just don't realize that a lot of the games unreleased they have played that I was able to sell might have been tossed in the dumpster if I wasn't so actively searching for things.

I was looking for this game for 5 years, now there is one available and this is the crap that happens with it?

People wonder why I would rather keep my stuff locked up forever or sell to private individuals that lock up stuff as well (yes, I have been selling a lot of stuff to private collectors these days that alleviates this type of hassle).

No one is holding anything for ransom here, it was an interest that I thought some people would have based on Richard wanting that video up but it's obvious that people are still believing they "deserve" something for free.

It's still here. If I say it's getting "locked" up or "special deal by midnight and the price goes up" and put a happy face, it's a JOKE. Really. When the heck have I seriously done that? I just have to shake my head at how serious some of that was taken.

Again, serious people have PMed me on NA about it. It's still here but I don't know how much longer it will be. (No, that is not a threat of hoarding it again since apparently everyone reads into everything I say as veiled threats)

[DreamTR]

Major inaccuracy in your reading comprehension. Evan wrote, and I quote "Unfortunately, he wants an item that costs the equivalent of about $10,000 for the game, so it is unlikely that anyone is going to be playing this anytime soon". In the NintendoAge thread in question (seriously, Evan really should cite some sources) you said you wanted to trade it for a Medieval Madness pinball machine. The lowest priced one of those I see on eBay is over $11,000 so I can see where Evan got that figure. I believe Evan started writing that article at the time you had made that first statement, before you changed your price to $5k, then $4k, so at least you are right in that respect.



Yes, that is the point. If I start writing an article and facts change you have to do some more research on the subject. My reading comprehension was fine. 10K or equivalent was still me originally asking for 10K as he stated in the article, absolutely no difference but I changed it to 4K some time back and have a For Sale thread on NA as opposed to a casual thread in the prototype section where it is just being discussed in general.


I'll stop posting on this as of now, I don't have anything to say about this anymore that hasn't already been said a dozen times, I simply came on here looking for CGE2K12 stuff and saw this thread but I've already said what I will take for it and I'll say again (I already found a Medieval Madness so this is besides the point)

1. $4000 paypal for the game, NOT the ROM alone.
2. An NTSC Stadium Events BOX and MANUAL. If this goes for more than $4000 keep in mind it was released and there are more of them out there, but it's an option.
3. A Street Fighter pneumatic button dedicated cabinet and $2000.

I can be reached via PMs on Nintendo Age...possibly here but I don't check very often.

I apologize if I "offended" anyone but I'm not out to laugh in anyone's face at this game, people said they wanted it and I am trying to offer it to them but for some reason people suddenly think I am not "serious", I don't even have a website with my protos up...doesn't even make sense, I'd be "trolling" all the time if I cared about stuff like that.

[JSoup]

Gaming history aside, is all this bullshit worth it for an undoubtedly crappy, half finished game?

[Ryaan1234]

I apologize if I "offended" anyone but I'm not out to laugh in anyone's face at this game, people said they wanted it and I am trying to offer it to them but for some reason people suddenly think I am not "serious", I don't even have a website with my protos up...doesn't even make sense, I'd be "trolling" all the time if I cared about stuff like that.
It seems like since you have the only copy out there that you are waving it in everyone's face while screaming "neener neener". It pisses people off that you have an interesting footnote in video game history, but you only care to have money to share it. That says to everyone in the gaming community that you care about money more than gaming history or collecting, and whether you agree with that or not it is the truth. In my OPINION I think you are holding the damn game hostage, as if to say "Give me THIS much money or you'll NEVER see the game again!". Also, asking for $10k cash, and for something worth $10k are two different things, whether you think so or not. You have gotten me on all other points, and on those I concede defeat.

I have said my peace, though I have one more thing to say:

Evan made it pretty clear in his article that he has been in contact with people who worked at Kaneko. You should pray he doesn't come across someone who has a copy, because if he does your "unique" game will not be worth near what it is right now.

[Parodius Duh!]

DreamTR,
So instead of counting on one person to outright buy it, which is most likely not going to happen otherwise it would have by now.... why not start a kickstarter page???? that way fans from around the world that want this released can donate, Im sure youll reach your goal of $4,000 easy, and you get to keep the proto in the long run. If the goal isnt reached then it stays locked up with you. Otherwise stop BSing around with this game and just make it clear that its never being released so people shut up!!!!!



I also understand you wanting to make your investment back, sure. But sometimes its better to be generous to the video gaming community. People paid $5000 for Bio Force ape just to dump it. Im currently looking for Ultimate Journey and if/when found, no matter what it costs me, you bet ur ass Id make it public as fast as possible. Release the games and go down as a part of gaming history, be that guy whos known for releasing titles after being lost for years, dont be that guy that everybody thinks is a hoarding dick.

[Leo_A]

You won't find enough nuts willing to subsidize his habit to the tune of $4,000 just to get him to release a rom image. Not even sure such a thing would be allowed via Kickstarter.

And if you did manage to raise that much, why not buy it outright? Even if the value is greatly reduced afterwards like he and a few others would lead you to believe, you would be able to resell it as a group and get at least a portion of your investment back. Then you could direct funds towards another project, refund donors a percentage of what they paid, or donate it to something like a charity that you all agreed upon.

And remember that it went unreleased for a reason. I doubt he owns anything unique that is worth more than being a mere curiousity.

[Steven]

To be quite honest, the game looks below average.

Probably average at best, if that.

This isn't some top 10 gem that went unreleased, lol.

No biggie either way if it stays unreleased. I'm a huge SNES fan, but I bet there are 300 games on SNES alone that are superior to Socks the Cat Rocks the Hill

[Parodius Duh!]

who gives a shit if its good or not, its a title that has developed LEGENDARY status, its nearly finished or finished, and someone actually owns it. All reasons why it should be out there.

[Leo_A]

Legendary status?

Hardly

And don't you wonder if he actually has it for sale why there isn't a lot more information out there about this? If I had something unique worth even a fraction of $4,000 that I was willing to sell, I'd be more forthcoming with information.

I feel safe in considering it something that is a mere curiousity. I doubt we have some hidden gem here. It looks like a below average platformer that I wonder is even finished (From the performance I saw in that poor YouTube video, I doubt he's ever progressed very far in it). And poorly done generic platformers were a dime a dozen back in the day.

[Gameguy]

If this ever got released it would be forgotten about in a week, maybe a month tops. Who still talks about Bio Force Ape? Nobody thought that would ever turn up, yet it did and after seeing a playthrough video it hasn't been mentioned since.

[Garry Silljo]

I don't care if he keeps it or charges a million dollars for it. It's his and no one else is entitled to it. He's not waving it in your faces either. You guys basically called him out. I wouldn't even know he had it if it weren't for this thread, and now that I know, ...., good for him. You want to paint him as greedy because he doesn't give away very valuable items for free? Hell my car is probably only worth a quarter of that and I don't just through the keys to anyone who wants to drive. If it were worth more, then I'd be even more protective. It's his choice, and a smart one, to preserve that value. You're lucky and should be thankful there is a price at all. At least you have a chance. A true hoarder would not part for any price.

[Leo_A]

I agree that the prototype cartridge is his. He's under no obligation to release the rom, produce reproductions, or sell it. He shouldn't be pestered about it. While not the most generous move in the world and not the best for the long-term survival of the code contained on it, the prototype is still his property. Nothing wrong with wanting to keep it to yourself or do something that you feel like is protecting the value of it (I.e., not posting a rom dump of it).

What annoys me in this thread is the suggestion raised to fund enough money to give him in order to release the code contained on it. The prototype is his to do with what he pleases. But the code contained on the eprom isn't his unless he acquired the rights to the game at the same time he purchased the cartridge.

I'm fine with releasing the rom, selling the prototype, or creating reproductions of it (I feel as if you're paying compensation for the cost and time to produce a physical cartridge of it, not for the code contained within).

But receiving several thousand dollars for the code itself? I think that's wrong unless he has the rights to it (Which I doubt he does). He owns the physical prototype itself, not all the 0's and 1's on the eprom chip itself.

[badinsults]

I don't think I should be questioned on my motives on creating a SNES unreleased games article. I've done plenty of them, including for unreleased games that I released the ROM images of. I think I scraped the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Socks the Cat, and I don't anticipate ever touching it again unless someone is foolish enough to waste $4000 of their own money on it. However, one of the main motivations for making the article was to correct the error on the reason for its cancellation (which had nothing to do with censorship). If not for this error, I would have been happy to keep TRM's old article up there, and we would not be having this conversation right now.

There are literally hundreds of prototypes out there that I have yet to document, and I am not going to cry about not having this one. I'm already starting research on some other unreleased games that are available. I've known for years that DreamTR had this game, and honestly I was satisfied him keeping it to himself until that nonsense on the Nintendo Age board. I'd rather not escalate this further (DreamTR, I suggest if you did not post that video, that you make the guy remove the implications that he has the prototype, because it is definitely a troll). We have our opinions on this subject, and it has been played out often enough.


Besides, I may soon have something far more interesting than Socks the Cat. ;)

[Leo_A]

Who was questioning your motives? As far as I can tell, you just wrote an interesting article about this with what information you had.

I don't think anyone was faulting you for it in this thread that I could see.

[megasdkirby]

Taking $4,000 as a basis, if reproductions were made, at least 80 would be needed to reach that amount (each one being $50). If 100 were to be made, the total would be $5,000. That would be an extra $1,000 for parts and labor. Let's exclude any form of box and manual for the game, so expenses won't go any higher.

Of course, extra money is always a concern...so let's raise the price to $60 for a cart only copy of the repro, without a fancy label. Just barebones. That would make $6,000 revenue, which will cover the $4,000 requested by DreamTR, and the rest in parts and profit.

Now, I'm pretty sure DreamTR will refuse this idea of creating reproductions, because he himself has had bad luck in the past doing repros (something about a game he released for the Genesis that sold poorly). His apprehension is quite understandable. So instead of creating the reproductions beforehand, why not do what the creators of Pier Solar did? Ask for the money in advance, and once a minimum of 100 people pays for the game, then start producing the cart? That way, money is guaranteed. Sure, some people will bitch about this practice as well, but screw them: eventually a minimum of 100 people will request and pay for the game.

Then someone else, as what has happened in the past, will create custom covers/box and manual for the game.

And if money is really a big issue (as it always is), then raise the loose copy to $65. More money in the back (for profit).

[Leo_A]

A reproduction of someone else's property should be priced to cover the direct manufacturing expenses and a reasonable sum for the necessary time investment to get things going, assemble the necessary supplies, put things together, and ship them out.

Unless it's a homebrew or done via permission of the copyright holder, "profit" shouldn't be entering the equation since it isn't theirs to be making money off selling copies of in the first place. He owns a prototype, he doesn't own a copyright to the contents on it.

[megasdkirby]

Unless it's a homebrew or done via permission of the copyright holder, "profit" shouldn't be entering the equation since it isn't theres to be making money off selling copies of in the first place.

Oh, totally agreed. But since profit seems to be an underlying issue here as well, some "incentive" might persuade DreamTR in releasing repros of the game.

Money talks, as they say.

[Leo_A]

Of course, but I was talking about principals in general rather than what it would take to get this specific item released to the public.

I'm willing to look the other way when copyright infringement is for the good of the hobby. Posting a 20 or 30 year old prototype that never made it out for example. But the thought of being profiting off the contents of their prototype I think crosses the line.

Someone that owns a prototype just has the right to profit off selling that physical item. Their property is physical and doesn't include the contents of the cartridge. The code isn't theirs to be profiting off of. So I hope people wouldn't pay to get something dumped and released since even though it would get something released if the other party followed through, it sets a bad precedent.

[badinsults]

Please, I'd rather DreamTR keep it to himself than to have some high priced scheme to have it released (btw Leo_A, my response before was not to you). I don't agree with bootlegging, even if it is for an unreleased game from a company that no longer exists. Let's just let it go.

[megasdkirby]

Please, I'd rather DreamTR keep it to himself than to have some high priced scheme to have it released (btw Leo_A, my response before was not to you). I don't agree with bootlegging, even if it is for an unreleased game from a company that no longer exists. Let's just let it go.

Oh, I'm just doing that to prove a point. You probably know what it is by now.

[Greg2600]

As someone who does read NA forum, DreamTR came off like he wasn't serious about selling it, often making jokes and wise cracks. I don't care either way, but my impression was he didn't want to sell it. Also, I think he has soured on releasing games via cartridge after they did Indy Heat on Genesis and very few people bought it. Releasing a prototype game on cartridge does not equal a lot of sales. The market is overwhelmingly overstated by many. Game series like Mario, Zelda, Sonic, the big ones, they would sell a ton, and often their repros do, but a game like Socks the Cat would not. Perhaps the SNES collector market could sustain it, but I'm not confident. Most often the lack of sales are because the game just isn't very good.

In terms of not freely releasing a prototype, my opinion doesn't change. I do not blame the owner if he does not, though I of course would prefer he did. I still feel that the existence of a ROM shouldn't degrade the value much. I know it does, but it should not. Given that many unreleased games are either not complete or just plain garbage, the value should be placed on the quantity of the item. Why is Stadium Events so expensive? It's an average game, for which anyone can play. In fact, all that is different was they changed the name and released it again. It's all about the quantity. The infamous Air Raid 2600? Garbage, but fetches a lot of money. Why are prototypes, which are far more rare than almost any released game, not worth more even if there's a dump? I can see if its a commercially released game, but an unreleased game's proto should hold it's value no matter what.

[Parodius Duh!]

who gives a fuck if its good or not, or how long it will be talked about. YES it has reached semi-legendary status like a handful of other specific unreleased games that are known to actually be in collectors possession. Fact of the matter is its a completed unreleased game, pile of shit or not. It is a piece of artwork that many people put their blood and sweat into that should be preserved for future generations to enjoy. The only answer is its a game thought to be lost, its NOT, therefore it should be out there.

[Parodius Duh!]

I don't care if he keeps it or charges a million dollars for it. It's his and no one else is entitled to it. He's not waving it in your faces either. You guys basically called him out. I wouldn't even know he had it if it weren't for this thread, and now that I know, ...., good for him. You want to paint him as greedy because he doesn't give away very valuable items for free? Hell my car is probably only worth a quarter of that and I don't just through the keys to anyone who wants to drive. If it were worth more, then I'd be even more protective. It's his choice, and a smart one, to preserve that value. You're lucky and should be thankful there is a price at all. At least you have a chance. A true hoarder would not part for any price.

Its not his. Sure he owns one of the only physical copies, but he doesnt own the game, didnt develop or produce it, etc. Therefore its all of our game, hes just hoarding it from us cause hes the guy that happens to own the physical copy, HE has the power now and absolutely loves bathing in it. I know for a fact if he started a kickstarter page the $4,000 would be met in a matter of weeks. I know collectors as far away as Japan and Italy that will donate a few hundred to him just dropping the rom file. As stated people have sent him serious offers, and he just bullshits them around. If he starts a kickstarter page Im sure his goal will be met FAST. But will he? doubt it....clearly he likes the attention. DreamTR needs to stop fucking around and just make it clear that hes never going to sell it, even though he claims he will, and has received offers....hmmmm...Just stop dicking everyone around big shot prototype man.

[JSoup]

Therefore its all of our game

No....no...that's....that's just stupid....

[Parodius Duh!]

no its not stupid at all actually if you look at the historical aspect of video games. Its meant for us all, it was originally intended for anyone to enjoy. The Louvre owns the Mona Lisa, but they have it on display for everyone to come see.....


If he 100% made the game or flat out bought the copyright, etc. making him sole owner, then whatever dont fucking share it. But thats not the case....fuck even he made 10 repros of the game Id be satisfied....just means theres a better chance of playing this....

[Bojay1997]

no its not stupid at all actually if you look at the historical aspect of video games. Its meant for us all, it was originally intended for anyone to enjoy. The Louvre owns the Mona Lisa, but they have it on display for everyone to come see.....


If he 100% made the game or flat out bought the copyright, etc. making him sole owner, then whatever dont fucking share it. But thats not the case....

Incorrect. The game code belongs to whoever holds the IP rights. Games don't get released for a reason and it's not your right to declare that anything unreleased is suddenly in the public domain just because it's not likely to be sold at some point in the future. As we have seen over the years, unreleased games can see second life as download titles or other commercial ventures. You don't get to essentially steal someone else's intellectual property and hard work just because you like video games.

[Parodius Duh!]

I know how copyright and public domain works. You really think "Socks the Cat" is still registered and someone owns it? highly, HIGHLY unlikely, anyone in their right mind would have stopped paying towards this the second big willie left office and the SNES died. So technically DreamTR even selling this copy would be illegal since its copyrighted unreleased works, right? Him even owning it would be illegal as all unreleased and prototype copyrighted material is property of the rights holder. I probably know more about this than most as I work for a DVD company that releases cult films.....

[Greg2600]

Technically his hoarding of the game is legally the thing to do. As I've said, if said owner were to lose money by releasing, is it fair to demand he does? He's not hoarding, he's offered to sell it, although most of us took that offer to be a joke, I guess it wasn't. I go back to my point, if it wasn't for the perceived loss of value, anyone with access to the equipment would release these roms. The key is the loss of value, and frankly I'm not so sure that's true in all cases. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay. I just don't see why the value goes down so much if the rom is released. In almost all cases, there are multiple prototypes that exist, they just haven't been found.

[Bojay1997]

I know how copyright and public domain works. You really think "Socks the Cat" is still registered and someone owns it? highly, HIGHLY unlikely, anyone in their right mind would have stopped paying towards this the second big willie left office and the SNES died. So technically DreamTR even selling this copy would be illegal since its copyrighted unreleased works, right? Him even owning it would be illegal as all unreleased and prototype copyrighted material is property of the rights holder. I probably know more about this than most as I work for a DVD company that releases cult films.....

That's not how copyright works and it's clear you have zero understanding of the law. In the United States, you don't have to do a renewal for works published or registered after January 1, 1978. The term of copyright extends for a period of the life of the author plus 70 years or 95 years from first publication or 120 years from creation, whichever comes first. That means this game will be within copyright through at least 2060 and probably much longer.

As far as the ownership of the cartridge, that's between DreamTR and whoever he purchased it from. A company at liquidation can transfer limited rights to property including IP to someone who buys its assets. I've been to auctions where the company only transfers the rights to use particular IP assets for non-commercial personal use and restricts further transfer or publication of copyrighted material, although it grants a limited ownership right to the property to the buyer. Is that what happend here? I don't know, but frankly it's none of your business or anyone else's.

[ProgrammingAce]

Any serious offers towards the game would have been directed to me in a PM.

I don't believe in conducting business in private, too many sellers make up fake offers to drive up prices.

I offered $7,000, you countered with $5,000 and told me I had to pay by midnight. That screamed out "suspicious", and it's certainly not how I do business.

The only thing I asked was that you proved the cart was legally acquired, and not stolen at some point. You were unwilling to do that, which spoke volumes to me.

[DreamTR]

I don't believe in conducting business in private, too many sellers make up fake offers to drive up prices.

I offered $7,000, you countered with $5,000 and told me I had to pay by midnight. That screamed out "suspicious", and it's certainly not how I do business.

The only thing I asked was that you proved the cart was legally acquired, and not stolen at some point. You were unwilling to do that, which spoke volumes to me.

I was going to stop responding but seriously? With my buying/selling history you are asking me that and thinking something was "suspicious" with me? That's the most way out left field remark basically being accusatory.

I mean, I've heard some stuff where you didn't ship stuff and had some questionable selling habits from the NA guys conducted on this forum but I never bothered to research it or care, their word against yours, I don't know but MY business practice is being questioned for whether or not the game is stolen? Really?

I don't conduct business much in public. I am honest and don't magically drive up prices. How am I supposed to prove ANYTHING is legally acquired? I don't have receipts magically lying around when I purchase protos. My WORD in this community and buying/selling history for 16+ years on the internet should be enough, and that's just how it is. I don't like all of my business conducted on boards. If people want their business private, so be it, but if I say it is not stolen, it's not stolen, but I can tell you 99% of people don't have receipts for every single thing they have purchased over the years.

The Midnight thing was a joke. I just can't believe how serious you guys are taking a troll posting my friend did originally. I was just trying to be funny but apparently that comes off misinterpreted.

Parodius: I've probably had more proto games dumped/sold by others than you have owned, but of course this is how people always remember, they feel it is "their right" to have it. So If I pay $$$$ for something and don't give it away for free I am the bad guy? Why don't you just pay me? People have been trying to raise funds, said that many times, you didn't read apparently. Also, attention starved? Really? Do you know how much stuff I have and don't ever really talk about it? Do I have websites bragging about every little thing and showing it off? No, I don't, but you just assume you know based on this thread, that's pretty hilarious. It's guys like you that prevent anything from ever being dumped because of how naive you sound about deserving stuff.

Tell you what, give me you car? I deserve it. It's greed if you ask for money instead of giving it to me.

This whole thing is so stupid. Basically I am getting called out for OWNING something and no one serious has stepped forward and offered me the correct amount and to repeat repeat repeat people are trying to come up with funds for it. To act like I haven't offered to sell it is crazy

[Tupin]

I swear I've read this same exact thread, covering the same exact argument, over and over again. No ground is ever gained, though I think this game will show up eventually somewhere else because it was reviewed in most major magazines of the day.

But really, who cares if it does. Why make a game involving a presidential pet? Why give it to a company that basically had no experience publishing? Is the humor in it good? That's what they were trying to go for, but is the Ross Perot-type boss even that funny?

[DreamTR]

I swear I've read this same exact thread, covering the same exact argument, over and over again. No ground is ever gained, though I think this game will show up eventually somewhere else because it was reviewed in most major magazines of the day.

But really, who cares if it does. Why make a game involving a presidential pet? Why give it to a company that basically had no experience publishing? Is the humor in it good? That's what they were trying to go for, but is the Ross Perot-type boss even that funny?

I agree, I just think it's stupid that I keep getting called out for it and people flock to the masses thinking I am hording something when they have no idea how many games I've had released already. It's a tiring argument but it just seems a new group of people latch on to the naysayers. I mean, why mention my name at all in that negative light in the article? Who cares? If I have it, say one is in the possession of so and so and leave it at that.

The game is actually pretty fun and I recently decided (as I was against it for the past 10 years) of getting it in someone's hands would be a great thing for the community but I'm not stupid, I'm not giving away a one of a kind prototype for free and I'm not holding the ROM ransom, I'm selling the actual game but the way I'm getting treated is pretty ridiculous even with a bonafide "For Sale" people are trying to use "smoke and mirrors" with everyone about my business practices when I have a spotless record for 16+ years on the internet. It all boils down on how you view people that attack and attack and for what reason they have to do so....

[JSoup]

I was going to stop responding

Really, cause I was positive you'd be back in a matter of posts following your last one to 'set people straight'.

[DreamTR]

I don't believe in conducting business in private, too many sellers make up fake offers to drive up prices.

I offered $7,000, you countered with $5,000 and told me I had to pay by midnight. That screamed out "suspicious", and it's certainly not how I do business.

The only thing I asked was that you proved the cart was legally acquired, and not stolen at some point. You were unwilling to do that, which spoke volumes to me.


By the way, this is what my quote said:
02/17/2012 06:21:06 PM

Clock is ticking...Feb 29 at 1159pm CST then it goes back up to silliness...definitely a lot better than hanging out in my drawer and never coming out ever which was my original stance. Honestly I am surprised I still have it =)


I made that post 12-13 days before the end of the month not "midnight" the same day like you are trying to state. The fact of the matter is you never came up with a serious offer to me, just a lot of stuff directed to whoever in the thread and that seemingly would make things crazily complicated and I seriously have no idea why you started that whole thing in the first place.

No one was playing games in the thread. If you and everyone else reads the posts you can see I was not the one that even started the thread. The video was Richard's idea. I only say "we" because it was my game, but even so that should have no factor on ANYTHING, the game is and was for sale and I clearly stated that numerous tims in the thread further lowering my price but the fact of the matter is you have your facts wrong by saying I gave you until Midnight. I said I would sell the game for $5000 to ANYONE that paid me by the END OF THE MONTH right in that thread.

http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?StartRow=81&catid=35&threadid=62349

[DreamTR]

Really, cause I was positive you'd be back in a matter of posts following your last one to 'set people straight'.

Cool. I guess now that I am getting trolled by people in the thread it is getting even for owning a video game, eh?

[JSoup]

Cool. I guess now that I am getting trolled by people in the thread it is getting even for owning a video game, eh?

I stand by what I said before. I don't give a flying fucking about a half finished game or who owns it. If you never sold the damn thing and ended up being buried with it, a ROM never being dumped, I don't feel that it would be a big loss to anyone.

I just find it funny when obviously confrontational people (trolls or not) make blatantly false statements about how they are 'done with a topic'. Cause it's always a lie.

[Doonzmore]

Wow, this thread really took off.

Good read Evan. I've been enjoying your website for some time. Now I'm actually more curious about the Genesis version Socks the Cat Rocks the House.

One thing I've wondered is where the box scans (particularly the back) came from. Is it possible a prototype box exists?

As for the video in question. Jason's friend can just as easily disable the comments section, but instead chooses to indulge his accusers. I think that's the reason why everyone's labeling him as a "troll".

Oh, and Jason has a Youtube account yet doesn't know how to upload a video? A simple google search will give you all the information you need. Not exactly rocket science.

[Parodius Duh!]

That's not how copyright works and it's clear you have zero understanding of the law. In the United States, you don't have to do a renewal for works published or registered after January 1, 1978. The term of copyright extends for a period of the life of the author plus 70 years or 95 years from first publication or 120 years from creation, whichever comes first. That means this game will be within copyright through at least 2060 and probably much longer.

As far as the ownership of the cartridge, that's between DreamTR and whoever he purchased it from. A company at liquidation can transfer limited rights to property including IP to someone who buys its assets. I've been to auctions where the company only transfers the rights to use particular IP assets for non-commercial personal use and restricts further transfer or publication of copyrighted material, although it grants a limited ownership right to the property to the buyer. Is that what happend here? I don't know, but frankly it's none of your business or anyone else's.

Thats your argument? Clearly, you dont understand the law. Thats for published works only, whether anonymous or not. This is not and never was published. Loop holes are amazing, I know, cause I deal with copyright just about everyday. Film, Games, Books, etc. all have different rules and regulations in regards to copyright. Im almost certain Socks is no longer protected.


From the US Governments site:

The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication.

[Parodius Duh!]

Wow, this thread really took off.

Good read Evan. I've been enjoying your website for some time. Now I'm actually more curious about the Genesis version Socks the Cat Rocks the House.

One thing I've wondered is where the box scans (particularly the back) came from. Is it possible a prototype box exists?

Doubt it, mock up box images were made for just about every unreleased SNES game. All the renovation titles that were to come out for SNES, undercover cops, etc. etc. There was probably never a box and just the image made on the computer for advertisements.

[Parodius Duh!]

Parodius: I've probably had more proto games dumped/sold by others than you have owned, but of course this is how people always remember, they feel it is "their right" to have it. So If I pay $$$$ for something and don't give it away for free I am the bad guy? Why don't you just pay me? People have been trying to raise funds, said that many times, you didn't read apparently. Also, attention starved? Really? Do you know how much stuff I have and don't ever really talk about it? Do I have websites bragging about every little thing and showing it off? No, I don't, but you just assume you know based on this thread, that's pretty hilarious. It's guys like you that prevent anything from ever being dumped because of how naive you sound about deserving stuff.



I TRIED BEING NICE.......LISTEN DUMBASS, NOT ONCE DID I SUGGEST YOU GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE, I SAID START A KICKSTARTER PAGE. YOULL GET YOUR MONEY ASAP. AND YES YOU LOVE THE ATTENTION, YOU THINK YOUR SOME BIG SHOT CAUSE YOU HAVE UNRELEASED GAMES AND YOU EMBRACE THE FACT THAT YOU OWN IT AND NOBODY ELSE DOES. IF YOU DIDNT YOU WOULD SAY ONE OF TWO THINGS WITHOUT EVER HAVING TO RETURN TO ANY THREAD ABOUT SOCKS, THOSE TWO THINGS ARE

1- ITS NOT FUCKING HAPPENING

2- ILL START A KICKSTARTER PAGE CAUSE I WANT MONEY AND THE 100S OF PEOPLE THAT WANT THIS GAME CAN CHIP IN AND ILL RELEASE THE ROM ONCE 4,000 IS MET.

STOP WITH THE COCKY RESPONSES TO EVERYONE.


AND I COULD GIVE A SHIT "IVE PROBABLY OWNED MORE PROTOTYPES THEN YOU BLAH BLAH SHIT FALLING OUT OF MY MOUTH BLAH BLAH BLAH"

THERE IS YOUR GOD COMPLEX COMING OUT AGAIN, I HAVE THIS, YOU DONT DO THIS, IVE DONE THIS, I DONT TALK ABOUT IT THOUGH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....IF YOU WERE SO GREAT PEOPLE WOULDNT BE HERE TALKING SHIT TO YOU....... HONESTLY ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT SHOULD NOT OWN PROTOTYPES....AND ITS NOT JUST THIS THREAD IM RUNNING ON PAL. LOOK AROUND THE INTERNET, YOU ARE FAR FROM BEING LIKED OR CONSIDERED AN ASSET TO THE COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW WHO IS AN ASSET? TWO BROTHERS, A SPECIFIC TWO I WONT NAME NAMES BUT EVERYONE KNOWS WHO IM TALKING ABOUT, THEY WILL EVENTUALLY RELEASE EVERYTHING THEYVE SPENT THOUSANDS ON, AND ALREADY HAVE. WHAT GAMES HAVE YOU PERSONALLY RELEASED BESIDE THAT RACING GAME? (WHICH YOU MADE REPROS OF AND STILL CHARGED ANYWAY...) THAT ARE ACTUALLY SIGNIFICANT AND NOT JUST SOME SLIGHTLY ALTERED VERSION OF WHAT ALREADY EXISTS?

YOU SIR ARE A "GOD" AND NOTHING MORE. HAVE FUN WITH YOUR PROTOTYPES, ASSHAT. PERSONALLY ID RATHER BE KNOWN FOR BEING THAT GUY WHO STRIVES TO FURTHER THE COMMUNITY (COUGH LIKE THE TWINS COUGH COUGH) RATHER THAN THE GREEDY GUY WHO HAS STUFF THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT BUT WONT SHARE, OR IS RELYING ON A SINGLE PERSON WITH A CHUNK OF CASH. I HATE HAVING TO COMPARE YOU BUT ITS TRUE.


START A KICKSTARTER PAGE OR KICK ROCKS!

[madman77]

The only thing worse than paying $50 in the 90's for a shitty platform game would be paying $5,000 in 2012 for a shitty platform game from the 90's.

[bunnyboy]

Thats your argument? Clearly, you dont understand the law. Thats for published works only, whether anonymous or not. This is not and never was published.

1976 Copyright Act: "Publication is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending."

If this was a review copy for a magazine, that could be a distribution by lending which is publication. If it was purchased from the company that would be a publication by sale.

For works after Jan 1 1978 there is no distinction between published and unpublished anyways, so that doesn't matter. The copyright is still automatic and will be valid for many more decades: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html#302

[ProgrammingAce]

Cool. I guess now that I am getting trolled by people in the thread it is getting even for owning a video game, eh?

Why don't you take the proto out of your mouth and try that one again...

[rbudrick]

Guys, DreamTR has NO obligation to you. It's his property, it belongs to him, and he is under zero obligation to share it. If you were offended by anything he did (or DIDN'T do), you're a wuss an you need to chill. Besides, it's just stupid Socks the Cat, so stuff it.

-Rob

[ProgrammingAce]

It was a joke. You took it seriously. I lowered the price to $4,000 awhile ago.



No one was playing games in the thread.

One of these things is not like the other...

I offered $7,000 for the game, with the only condition that you told me where it came from. After that, you started acting weird, and i walked away. It's sad I can't trust you with that kind of money...

Sadly, I think the game is stolen property.

[Ryaan1234]

Thats your argument? Clearly, you dont understand the law.
In real life Bojay is a copyright lawyer so I actually value his opinion on the subject more than your's.

[Parodius Duh!]

Hes not obligated to anything. Fact of the matter is he has stated multiple times its for sale, people contact him, then something suddenly happens. His attitude and cocky responses is whats offending. Ive only suggested that he start a kickstarter page, I know his $4000 that he wants for it now would be met, hell even more probably. His response is I assume I want it for free, so that pisses me off.

[Parodius Duh!]

In real life Bojay is a copyright lawyer so I actually value his opinion on the subject more than your's.



well, to be honest I could care less if hes a copyright lawyer, The DVDS Ive released have included theatrically released films from the 80s that have expired, so explain that. Also Socks was developed by a Japanese company, so thats a whole other bag of crap to deal with.... Im stating there are loopholes and Socks may very well fall into one.

now, back on topic....

[ProgrammingAce]

well, to be honest I could care less if hes a copyright lawyer, The DVDS Ive released have included films from the 80s that have expired, so explain that. Also Socks was developed by a Japanese company, so thats a whole other bag of crap to deal with.... Im stating there are loopholes and Socks may very well fall into one.

now, back on topic....

You are everything I love about DP.

[DreamTR]

One of these things is not like the other...

I offered $7,000 for the game, with the only condition that you told me where it came from. After that, you started acting weird, and i walked away. It's sad I can't trust you with that kind of money...

Sadly, I think the game is stolen property.

I didn't start acting weird. I just don't see why I have to reveal my sources to you where I got the game.

Where would I have stolen it from? Someone's basement? It's not stolen.

And you never offered me anything specifically. Anyone reading that thread can tell you that. No PMs, nothing.

Not sure what your deal is with me and why you are acting like this when we have dealt in the past but it's pretty shitty to accuse me of stealing a game.

Directly from you on Nintendo Age:

Originally posted by: bunnyboy

How is cutting his price in half for weeks a stupid demand? Think he really needs to sell it to get money? I would guess he doesn't care at all who goes to bat or if it sells at all.

You: Uh... good for him? That's not remotely what I said. Dropping the price from infinity dollars to $5,000 is great.

If he wants to be paid money, i'll set something up. If he wants me to dance around like a monkey for his amusement like that post implies, i'm not interested.

If Dream's actually interested in selling it, he knows how to get in touch with me. I can either try to setup a "fundraiser", or talk to some buddies of mine in Chicago who run one of the indy devs and are staunch Democratic supporters. I'm sure they'd love to throw something like this out in an election year...


PlaystationMuseum tried playing bullshit games when he wanted to sell me Resident Evil 1.5 too. I'm interested in giving you moneys for a game. If you're not interested in taking monies, so be it.



Me: Eh? Who is playing games with you? I am not talking directly to anyone, just a blanket statement. Not sure what "your" attitude is about this for some reason.

If you or whomever (which was actually the point of this post) has $5000, by all means I will send it off, it doesn't matter to me who gets it so I'm not really sure where this coming from...

I made the discount so I can see if people were interested quicker than later....that's all so again, not sure where this is all coming from as the post had a smiley face about it at the end hence the sarcastic tone, but so be it....again, I didn't even respond to you at all, didn't even cross my mind..

-------------

Fact of the matter is you didn't make me a valid offer and you didn't skip off because you thought anything was supposedly "stolen" you had all these weird stipulations and honestly I didn't read up on everything you wrote in the thread, already mentioned that. PMs are what do it for me.

Gotta love the accusations and even more gotta love the insults from Parodius. Stay classy fellas.

Parodius, who is being cocky? You just insulted me and think I really care about protos all the time. If I did I'd be bragging about them all the time and making webpages dedicated to them. You stated how many prototypes I have released....I've had 30-40 of mine released in some way via community, not via reproduction except for a few. You can put a laundry list on the NES ones from myself and The Red Eye and that's not counting Genesis and SNES. I didn't start any of these threads. Everyone else has and tried to talk about what I need to do with the game.

I mean, all this ducking and excuses is pretty funny from everyone but like I said, I am sure it's going to be sold eventually and if that person doesn't dump that is on everyone else.

[Parodius Duh!]

You are everything I love about DP.

Im glad!

[Bojay1997]

Actually, I've been an entertainment attorney for almost a decade with the last five working for a large television, movie and video game studio on this very issue, so I think I know a thing or two about copyright. If your definition was correct, all anyone would have to do is dig through dumpsters of companies closing down or better yet, of screenwriters clearing out their apartments and they could simply publish whatever they found. Moreover, anyone could sell copies of prototype games as long as the company wasn't still around and the game never came out, right? You certainly must recognize that's not correct.

Publication or lack thereof doesn't determine whether or not copyright protection attaches in the post 1978 world. I'm sure your company probably works with pre-1978 materials like Night of the Living dead which is outside of copyright protection due to a loophole in the copyright law regarding the need to publish works with a copyright notice. That loophole was eliminated from the 1978 law and works created after that time have copyright protection for a term of either 70 years after death of the author, 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter. Socks is still under copyright, the only question is what entity owns that copyright (i.e. who purchased Kaneko's IP assets after they folded).


Thats your argument? Clearly, you dont understand the law. Thats for published works only, whether anonymous or not. This is not and never was published. Loop holes are amazing, I know, cause I deal with copyright just about everyday. Film, Games, Books, etc. all have different rules and regulations in regards to copyright. Im almost certain Socks is no longer protected.


From the US Governments site:

The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication.

[Parodius Duh!]

I understand where you are coming from Bojay and fully understand your points, but we have also dealt with pre-1978 films that have fallen into public domain, Blood Nasty from 1986 and Taoism Drunkard from 1984 I can think of off the top of my head...how is it that these once protected films became public domain?

[Bojay1997]

well, to be honest I could care less if hes a copyright lawyer, The DVDS Ive released have included theatrically released films from the 80s that have expired, so explain that. Also Socks was developed by a Japanese company, so thats a whole other bag of crap to deal with.... Im stating there are loopholes and Socks may very well fall into one.

now, back on topic....

Please feel free to PM me with the name of your company. I'm sure I have plenty of colleagues that would be interested to hear about how you're taking movies from the 80s and claiming you have the rights to release them because they have an expired "copyright". It's possible the rights holders are simply not aware of what you're doing or don't even know they own the copyrights, but I can assure you there is no such thing as public domain 1980s movies simply because the copyright has "expired".

[ProgrammingAce]

how is it that these once protected films became public domain?

I would think you, being part of the company who published such movies, would be able to answer that question yourself without help. If not, maybe it is *your* concept of copywright that needs clarification.

[Parodius Duh!]

Im not the one who procures the films. and the "Rights holders" aka directors, producers, owners, etc. are well aware of the films releases seeing as how they are adding commentary.....and were not the only ones, Massacre video just released 555, Intervision released sledgehammer...so, yeah. Were not talking MGM and Universal films either, were talking low budget no name production houses, but theres still copyrights involved....and if these revisions took place in 1978, why was the original Dragonball series public domain after its inital US broadcasting up until the WTO agreements of 1996? Same can be said for a large amount of Star films productions. Also, The Berne Act (seeing as how socks is owned/formerly by a Japanese company....).

[Greg2600]

Maybe Programming Ace should just go ahead and program his own Socks the Cat? That worked well the last time....

Parodius, I really don't understand why you're so furious? DreamTR said he would sell the game, preferably to someone who would do a full cart-based release. He does not want to do one himself, and isn't interested in doing a ROM dump based on a Kickstarter-like project. It's not like he said he would never release it, he said he wants it to get a professional-like release.

[Parodius Duh!]

Im furious cause he put words in my mouth and assume I wanted it for free when in fact I have a great idea for him to get the money, still keep the proto, and make everyone happy, and that pisses me off.

[Bojay1997]

Im not the one who procures the films. and the "Rights holders" aka directors, producers, owners, etc. are well aware of the films releases seeing as how they are adding commentary.....and were not the only ones, Massacre video just released 555, Intervision released sledgehammer...so, yeah. Were not talking MGM and Universal films either, were talking low budget no name production houses, but theres still copyrights involved....and if these revisions took place in 1978, why was the original Dragonball series public domain after its inital US broadcasting up until the WTO agreements of 1996? Same can be said for a large amount of Star films productions. Also, The Berne Act (seeing as how socks is owned/formerly by a Japanese company....).

Look, there are some very specific loopholes that still crop up as applied to films in particular that were not registered for copyright and not given proper copyright notice statements at the time they were first distributed. It's possible your company has found that tiny number of films where the producer or distributor was so lazy or indifferent that they just didn't bother (which seems somewhat far fetched given the limited cost involved and the fact that these were theatrically released films). It's also possible and frankly more likely that the rights holders feel there is more value in letting you distribute the works without licensing fees than trying to file for an injunction which would result in their total non-availability in all likelihood. The United States and Japan are both Berne signatories. Japan also has very stringent protections for material under copyright which similar to the United States doesn't require publication. We have clearly veered way off topic here, but the point remains that there is no continuing use or registration requirement for Socks or any other game published since 1978 and it is not outside of copyright protection regardless of whether it was developed in Japan or the United States.