Need some Contra opinions [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

Edmond Dantes

04-20-2012, 04:56 AM

So now I'm looking to get into this series. The only game I actually own is Contra: Hard Corps and the phrase "work of art" barely begins to describe it.

Things I want to know though, are:

1. How good are the arcade emulations on the "Konami Classics" for X-Box 360? What's better, those compilations, or importing the Oretachi Contra disk for PS2?

2. I know Legacy of War is considered bad but I wanna play it anyway. Are there any notable differences between the PS1 and Saturn versions?

Thanks.

davidbrit2

04-20-2012, 06:16 AM

The emulations are good, but the arcade Contra games just plain suck, to be honest. The control is extremely sluggish. Stick with the NES versions. Operation C for Gameboy is pretty decent too.

Stringfellow

04-20-2012, 07:57 AM

Contra 3 on snes is awesome too. There is also Super C on the nes and Contra shattered soldier on the PS2

Smashed Brother

04-20-2012, 08:57 AM

The arcade Contra games are irritating with your full-body flips whenever you hit the jump button. Actually, a rotating flapjack would better describe it. Also, the arcade Super C has limited continues, at least on MAME. I don't know how the Xbox 360 version addresses that. Stick to the NES versions.

In my Contra-lovin' opinion, the PS2 game Shattered Soldier is the best Contra game ever! It's f'n hard, but it has fantastic level design, creepy bosses and multiple endings. It's also a game that rewards those who learn its mechanics. In fact, you won't even see the last couple of stages if you play lousy in the first few levels.

Edmond Dantes

04-20-2012, 09:15 AM

Also, the arcade Super C has limited continues, at least on MAME.

For some reason a lot of Konami arcade games do that, including Haunted Castle and both the Contras.

I played them on MAME and personally enjoy them, but I haven't played the NES ones in years so I don't know how they measure up.

Frankie_Says_Relax

04-20-2012, 10:16 AM

While I DO love the NES version of Contra, I've got lots of love for the arcade version of the game.

I know that's not a popular position, but I put plenty of time in to that game in arcades prior to ever playing the NES version so I prefer it.

The 360 ports of Contra and Super C are very good IMO and don't suffer from any slowdown. I believe that the limited continues are in place in both games.

As stated above Operation C on Gameboy is awesome too.

There's even a colorized version of it on a 4-game collection that Konami made available in Japan and Europe.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/9/577969_18128_front.jpg

Edmond Dantes

04-20-2012, 10:42 AM

So, nobody has ever thought to compare the PS1 Legacy of War with the Saturn version?

treismac

04-20-2012, 04:31 PM

Edmond Dantes, if you're starting to develop a taste for Contra, I highly recommend Contra ReBirth for Wii Ware. It has a decidedly retro flavor to it, and it is quite simply an awesome run' gun irrespective of any generation of gaming. It might sound gimmicky, but I really love "popping" my Wiimote to cycle through the guns rather than using the Classic Wii Controller. The worst critique I have for the game is that it is a bit short, but I still felt like I got my money's worth.

As far as new generation Contra games, my buddy in Arizona said Hard Corps: Uprising for the PS3 Network (or Xbox LiveArcade) is a kickass anime adaptation of the series. I haven't played it, but it looks interesting enough.

The 1 2 P

04-20-2012, 07:02 PM

So, nobody has ever thought to compare the PS1 Legacy of War with the Saturn version?

Not really. The PS1 version sucked. The other PS1 Contra game(C: The Contra Adventure) also got pretty low reviews but I felt it much better accomplished being a Contra game than LOW.

E Nice

04-20-2012, 09:57 PM

Also, the arcade Super C has limited continues, at least on MAME. I don't know how the Xbox 360 version addresses that.

I think you can use the Konami code for inifinite lives but you're stuck with a rapid machine gun throughout and no achievements while using the code.

Not really. The PS1 version sucked. The other PS1 Contra game(C: The Contra Adventure) also got pretty low reviews but I felt it much better accomplished being a Contra game than LOW.

I've played the Saturn LOW but not the PSX version. It's 3D gimmick was having to wear those 3D color lenses so the game would pop out from your tv screen, which I've never tried. Otherwise the game is a sorta like an angled overhead/topdown view with a loose, floaty feel to it. The last stage is notable in that it is on a 3D world, kinda. The whole fight takes place on a small moon or asteroid and you just run all over it, and it'll spin around, almost like the world of The Little Prince except instead of scrubbing volcanoes you're trying to kill the alien that pops out of them.

C:The Contra Adventure wasn't much better, especially since it was only single player if memory serves. The only good parts were the three stages that most resembled 2D, which got worse as it went along. The first stage was a 2.5D stage and was decent. Then the game goes into some terrible 3D mode for about the rest of the game, except for a weightless 2D boss stage and the very last stage. The weightless stage had good music. The final stage was an uninspired 2D level.

Gamevet

04-20-2012, 11:34 PM

If you like the overhead shooting levels of Super C, Neo Contra (PS2) is a pretty decent game. It's not great, but it's still pretty fun to play.

BetaWolf47

04-21-2012, 12:02 AM

I prefer Super C (NES) to Contra (NES) since I grew up with Super C. Comparitively, Super C has a higher sprite limit, allowing you to fire more rounds at once. I also prefer the overhead levels to the behind-the-shoulder ones to Contra. The difficulty is a little more forgiving (I can make it to level 5 without dying in Super C). The only problem with Super C is the straightforwardness. Most enemies just rush at you from ahead or behind, something which gets old pretty quick if you're used to behing shot at from below and above in Contra.

treismac

04-21-2012, 01:07 AM

If you like the overhead shooting levels...

I've never been a fan of the overhead perspective in Contra- at all. I always thought that the game's flow lost considerable steam when it switched to the overhead view. With that said, I felt it worked much better on Contra III than on Super C.

stalepie

04-21-2012, 02:13 AM

I like Neo Contra much more than Shattered Soldier. Shattered to me was unbelievably frustrating and cheap. I know it was designed by one of the heads of the original Contra, but it's just not fun. Neo Contra on the other hand is pretty good fun.

Haven't played Legacy of War, but struggled to like Contra 4 on the DS. Graphically it looks intense, really well done, and the stage design seems nice, but I just find it frustrating and couldn't get into it.

My favorites: Contra (NES), Super C (NES), Operation C (GB), Contra III (SNES), Contra: Hard Corps (Mega Drive! Has life bar!) and Neo Contra (PS2). Haven't played Hard Corps: Uprising yet.

The Gameboy game is rather good, but short like a lot of GB games. It feels pretty similar to the NES versions, but the jumping is a little off. You get used to it though.

I still think the NES ones are the most fun because they provide the right amount of jumping space. The smaller sprites allow you see more of the screen and jump around in that floaty way. Contra 4 reminded me of the arcade versions, with the narrow horizontal space, and more vertical space.

Haoie

04-21-2012, 02:26 AM

You've probably got the best game in the entire series already!

The JP version is significantly easier than other regions, plus has a pretty cool story to boot.

Edmond Dantes

04-21-2012, 11:39 AM

You've probably got the best game in the entire series already!

That's what I'm afraid of. Although there seem to be some who argue Contra III is better.

Incidentally I have the U.S. version of Hard Corps. I thought of importing the Japanese version because of the life bar, but when I thought about it, one-hit kills are series tradition. If I'm gonna live with it in every other game, might as well stick with it here too. (Besides, the JP version is hella expensive and I want to be able to follow the story).

treismac

04-21-2012, 01:03 PM

(Besides, the JP version is hella expensive and I want to be able to follow the story).

I am more than content to be blissfully unaware of the story in the Super Famicom version of Contra Spirits (Contra III in North America). If there is an entry in the Contra series with a non-disposable story, it's news to me. Besides, the Japanese version of Contra III has bonus goodies (unlimited continues, stage select, and a code for 30 extra men just as the good Lord intended) that the North American version is sadly bereft of.

Edmond Dantes

04-21-2012, 02:15 PM

Errr, the line you're quoting was about Hard Corps, not Contra III (Hard Corps actually does have a story).

treismac

04-21-2012, 02:32 PM

Errr, the line you're quoting was about Hard Corps, not Contra III (Hard Corps actually does have a story).

Yes, I was aware that you were writing on Hard Corps and not Contra III. I was, however, unaware that the Genesis version of the game had an actual story worth watching over a smattering of forgettable text begging to be skipped. My apologies for not being more clear. I should have started my response with something like, "While I don't know personally about Hard Corps, I am more than content to be blissfully unaware of the story in the Super Famicom version of Contra Spirits (Contra III in North America)..." Bad/murky communication skills on my part. :(

kupomogli

04-21-2012, 02:40 PM

Skip the arcade versions. They suck ass.

Contra and Super C are the best as they're difficult but fair. Contra 3 is good, but a bit unfair at parts. Hard Corps I've only passed stage one once in my entire life. Not a fan.

I'd say if you're a Contra fan, you might also be interested in trying out the Metal Slug series, Gunners Heaven, and Gunstar Heroes.

Edmond Dantes

04-21-2012, 02:54 PM

I actually already have Gunstar Heroes and two of the Metal Slug games (the NGPC ones). I love them, though I prefer Contra's more serious atmosphere and H.R. Giger monstrosities... at least, that's what I'm in the mood for right now. Definitely gonna pick up the Metal Slug Anthology some time though.

And yes, Hard Corps has a story, complete with choose-your-own-adventure bits where you get different dialogue and story developments (and, in turn, different levels and different endings) depending on which choices you make. Granted, its still a kinda simplistic one, but I think its nice.

I've managed to get to I think level 6 in Hard Corps.

treismac

04-21-2012, 04:12 PM

I've managed to get to I think level 6 in Hard Corps.

Damn. You really seem to relish difficult games, Edmond Dantes, as I recall your not too distant dive into the heart of madness that is Ghost n' Goblins. Did you ever record a video of you playing the game or any other game? I'd be curious to see your skills in action.

Jorpho

04-22-2012, 01:01 AM

Someone finally released a patch that will enable the JP version's life bar in the US version of Hard Corps, if that interests you.

Arctic Feather

04-22-2012, 01:41 AM

As stated above Operation C on Gameboy is awesome too.

There's even a colorized version of it on a 4-game collection that Konami made available in Japan and Europe.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/9/577969_18128_front.jpg

While the collection was released in Japan and Europe, only the European release is in colour. Japan just got standard black-and-white releases.

Also note that although the game on the collection is called "Probotector" instead of Contra/Operation C, it still has the original human characters and not the robots that were in the original game boy release in Europe.

Edmond Dantes

04-22-2012, 02:44 PM

Someone finally released a patch that will enable the JP version's life bar in the US version of Hard Corps, if that interests you.

How would you apply that to a Sega Genesis cart?

Damn. You really seem to relish difficult games, Edmond Dantes, as I recall your not too distant dive into the heart of madness that is Ghost n' Goblins. Did you ever record a video of you playing the game or any other game? I'd be curious to see your skills in action.

I get so caught up in video games that I forget to record them (that and my webcam and its built in microphone pick up damn near everything, and the few videos I did make had some embarrassing moments). I'll begin making an effort at it though.

While the collection was released in Japan and Europe, only the European release is in colour. Japan just got standard black-and-white releases.

Also note that although the game on the collection is called "Probotector" instead of Contra/Operation C, it still has the original human characters and not the robots that were in the original game boy release in Europe.

Yeah, I've read about Probotector. I'm almost interested in getting the manuals just to read the storyline.

Great news guys, I picked up two more Contra games: Operation C and Super C (the store also had Contra, but wanted $20 for it and I won't be able to afford that until my next paycheck. I'm seriously thinking of going for an all-CIB collection of each game though).

I definitely wouldn't mind having that Konami GB Collection. Just from the box-art, it looks like it not only contains Operation C but also Castlevania Adventure and Nemesis. Surely a must-have lot.

Jorpho

04-22-2012, 11:50 PM

How would you apply that to a Sega Genesis cart?Well, you wouldn't. That sort of thing is strictly limited to those using an emulator or a flash cart of some sort. (Apparently the relevant code was completely removed from the US version, so there's no chance a simple Game Genie hack could fix it.)

Edmond Dantes

04-23-2012, 08:24 PM

Did you ever record a video of you playing the game or any other game? I'd be curious to see your skills in action.

I tried to upload a video of an attempt at Hard Corps earlier today, but it was going S-L-O-W, and because of company I had to call it off.

Does anyone have ideas on what I could do to try and make videos upload to Youtube faster? Right now the only thing I can think of is quality reduction.

Edmond Dantes

05-15-2012, 03:10 PM

THREAD REVIVAL ILLUMINATION!

Well guys, something wondertastical happened today. You will never believe it.

I... BEAT CONTRA (NES)!

Twice! Turns out there's a second loop if you let the credits run thru. I figured I'd keep going until I ran out of lives and continues, and I had lost all my continues on the Hangar level of the first loop, so I figured I'd never finish it...

I wound up getting to the Waterfall level on the Third loop before finally being able to quit. It was almost like the game held me prisoner for awhile.

And the best part is I recorded the whole thing onto a DVD. It will always bring back the fondest of memories.

treismac

05-15-2012, 04:08 PM

I salute you, Dantes! Back in the day beating Contra is a rite of passage as far as I'm concerned. I never attempted to beat it two times in a row, though. To the best of my memory, it doesn't offer any added challenge like Super Mario Bros. does with replacing goombas with buzzy beetles the second time around. I'd give Contra a second go around if there was something extra thrown in.

Edmond Dantes

05-15-2012, 04:23 PM

It seemed to me like it throws some extra enemies at you (I found myself getting rushed by those football guys on the exploding bridge, when usually said bridges are enemy-less), but otherwise its not significantly harder.

ACiD

05-15-2012, 04:35 PM

Now it's time for you to beat Super C! I think it's my favorite of the series.

sayewonn

05-15-2012, 06:00 PM

Forgive me for pimping my website but its relevant to the topic. When I first started my site I did a featured week on Contra, and reviewed all of the console entries up to C - the Contra Adventure. If the opening hasn't already feel free to read my reviews on each game to get a better understanding of why they are good (or not so good).

Contra Week - http://www.retrogameage.com/?p=981

Edmond Dantes

05-15-2012, 06:45 PM

I enjoyed those reviews!

And I'll consider jumping on Super C.

kainemaxwell

05-15-2012, 06:53 PM

And the best part is I recorded the whole thing onto a DVD. It will always bring back the fondest of memories.

Do share with us!

Edmond Dantes

05-16-2012, 03:29 PM

Youtube is saying its gonna take a long-ass time to upload the full video, so I'll PM you when its up.

Question: How do you all feel about the Spreadfire? Does it make the game too easy, or is it the Great Equalizer? I'm thinking of attempting a no-Spreadfire run, to make sure I won due to skill and not because I had a cheap weapon (although, I didn't use the spread throughout my entire run--sometimes I died, or experimented with a different weapon--but when I had it, I tried my best to keep it).

treismac

05-16-2012, 05:36 PM

Youtube is saying its gonna take a long-ass time to upload the full video, so I'll PM you when its up.

Hit me up with a PM as well, Dantes.

Question: How do you all feel about the Spreadfire? Does it make the game too easy, or is it the Great Equalizer?

Love the Spreadfire. It is amongst the greatest power-ups in video games in my book. I still remember vividly fighting for possession of the coveted power-up with friends of mine during childhood. She was the hot girl everyone wanted, and would do anything to get. All friendships were off when it was time to scramble for her hand.

Does the Spreadfire make the game too easy? Not as much as the infamous code does anyway. I could never in good conscience turn my back on her. She has taken too good care of me in the past to ever seriously consider such a course of action.

And I'll consider jumping on Super C.

Consider nothing. Jump. :)

Edmond Dantes

05-19-2012, 02:07 PM

All right guys, here's my needlessly long game of Contra:

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkfHqthrLzk)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYyWZ5frcJE)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV6s-MpvvPU)
Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hubsRFZkBxs)
Part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHffMNuYKp8)

Enjoy.

I haven't jumped on Super C yet.. wanted to give myself a bit of a breather first.

NE146

05-19-2012, 03:46 PM

Now that you beat the US version, you should really try the famicom version of Contra. There's cutscenes, the trees sway in the first stage, there's falling snow in the snow level, etc.

Just watch the intro to it, and also about 37 seconds in, and you'll get the idea :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euNolYpbcq8

FoxNtd

05-19-2012, 07:19 PM

Contra is easy. Give it a few more tries and you can counterstop it. I did. On the FC version even where I had the joys of getting killed by bullets that blend in well with the snow on the Snow Field stage. You can hit the 6,553,500 cap before Loop 10. The difficulty increases seem to stop around Loop 5, but I'm not sure. Unfortunately the 1UP award system has a cap too...

treismac

05-20-2012, 12:58 AM

Impressive Contra skills in your videos. I'd proudly take down Red Falcon by your side, Dantes.

Edmond Dantes

05-22-2012, 01:57 AM

Thanks everyone!

I'll check out the Famicom Contras as soon as I get a Famicom. Due to money troubles tho that might not be any time soon. In the meantime, the Contra game I'm playing the most is Operation C due to it being on a portable system (thus I can play it while away from home or while my DVD Recorder is busy with something else).

I've also been checking out a few Contra clones, namely Irem's Gunforce series which I own thanks to DotEmu's Irem collection. For some reason, everyone regards the first one as a terrible game, but I don't see much wrong with it except that the controls are a little weird (you know how in Contra you just point in a direction and they're just magically pointing there? The Gunforce dudes need to swing their arms into that position, which means you can fire in an arc but also means you're a little slower than you would actually like to be in this kind of game). IMO, these games are also hurt by their almost total lack of any sort of plot or premise--particularly the second game (called Geostorm in Japan), where I'd really like to know what's going on.

The Gunforce team apparently went on to found the company that made the Metal Slug games, of which I've played the first one. I do have one criticism--only being able to shoot in the cardinal directions. Its like the AVGN said: "it seems like only Contra got it right."

davidbrit2

05-22-2012, 08:40 AM

The Gunforce team apparently went on to found the company that made the Metal Slug games, of which I've played the first one. I do have one criticism--only being able to shoot in the cardinal directions. Its like the AVGN said: "it seems like only Contra got it right."

As did Sunset Riders (also made by Konami, as it so happens).

jperryss

05-22-2012, 01:36 PM

This thread prompted me to play through the original NES Contra and Super C again. I'd always used the extra-men codes but figured I could clear them without it. Now it's official. :D

Does either game have a significantly different 2nd loop? I didn't notice a drastic difference, maybe slightly more bullets flying around, but on both games I actually lost fewer men on the 2nd loop.

FoxNtd

05-22-2012, 07:48 PM

Does either game have a significantly different 2nd loop? I didn't notice a drastic difference, maybe slightly more bullets flying around, but on both games I actually lost fewer men on the 2nd loop.

A bunch of the old Konami titles have a harder 2nd loop at the least. Contra does get harder; you will see more enemies spawn, particularly on level 1 in some spots where it's most evident, and boss HP seems to go up. At the very least, that big alien head mini-boss near the start of the final stage has much more HP and begins to expel three of those flying shrimp-like enemies instead of two, which also have more HP. :puppydogeyes:

In my playing I estimate the difficulty cap is reached at Loop 5. The 1UP system changes at 3 million points; the value of the next 1UP goes up to 1 million, meaning you can earn only 3 more extra lives, then you cannot get any more.

E Nice

05-22-2012, 08:02 PM

Thanks everyone!

I'll check out the Famicom Contras as soon as I get a Famicom. Due to money troubles tho that might not be any time soon. In the meantime, the Contra game I'm playing the most is Operation C due to it being on a portable system (thus I can play it while away from home or while my DVD Recorder is busy with something else).

I've also been checking out a few Contra clones, namely Irem's Gunforce series which I own thanks to DotEmu's Irem collection. For some reason, everyone regards the first one as a terrible game, but I don't see much wrong with it except that the controls are a little weird (you know how in Contra you just point in a direction and they're just magically pointing there? The Gunforce dudes need to swing their arms into that position, which means you can fire in an arc but also means you're a little slower than you would actually like to be in this kind of game). ....

That kinda sounds like how the Contra arcade game handled the bullet trajectory, which people disliked. The bullets arced into that 45 degree angle slowly.

Operation C was a great Super C style game. Only real tough part was the fight with the very last boss, the one that actually fights, not that thing in a jar.

jperryss

05-22-2012, 08:14 PM

A bunch of the old Konami titles have a harder 2nd loop at the least. Contra does get harder; you will see more enemies spawn, particularly on level 1 in some spots where it's most evident, and boss HP seems to go up. At the very least, that big alien head mini-boss near the start of the final stage has much more HP and begins to expel three of those flying shrimp-like enemies instead of two, which also have more HP. :puppydogeyes:

In my playing I estimate the difficulty cap is reached at Loop 5. The 1UP system changes at 3 million points; the value of the next 1UP goes up to 1 million, meaning you can earn only 3 more extra lives, then you cannot get any more.

Ah, see I always have the spread gun at that part, but on that 2nd loop I had the basic pea shooter, so I attributed the "extra HP" to the weak gun.

Jorpho

05-22-2012, 10:19 PM

Operation C was a great Super C style game. Only real tough part was the fight with the very last boss, the one that actually fights, not that thing in a jar.It's all about the pattern memorization, as with the rest of the game.

NE146

05-22-2012, 11:43 PM

I'll check out the Famicom Contras as soon as I get a Famicom. Due to money troubles tho that might not be any time soon.

Why? Just snag the rom and play it on an emulator on your pc/wii/xbox or something. :p

Unless of course you really want a physical cart for your collection. But the point is to just check out the differences. :)

Edmond Dantes

05-23-2012, 02:58 AM

I just really don't like emulators, to tell ya the truth. My main problem with them is that when I download one, its hard to concentrate on just the one game and instead you want to get on and download more, and soon its more about downloading than playing. With a physical cart, because you layed down money for it there's incentive to actually play it.

I also find that when I download something, I'm prone to forget I have it, whereas a cart is, by nature, a physical reminder of itself... especially if its a nice, juicy CIB (hey, where the hell does Pat the NES Punk get those protective cases for his CIB games anyway?)

With Operation C, I actually find the hardest part is... making jumps. I don't know what it is but it seems like I always just narrowly make jumps. There's this waterfall in Area 3 that I usually wind up losing a lot of lives on because I either stand too close to the edge and walk right off, or else I'm not as close as I need to be and my jump misses. Though, I AM getting better at this. I've gotten to the last level, but the second elevator that has those laser traps keeps killing me (I imagine there's a trick I simply have not discovered yet, as I've only been there once).

Tried Super C today. Got my ass handed to me. I'm thinking of giving Ghosts n' Goblins another run, possibly some R-Type or X-Multiply (god I love Giger aliens) and then coming back to Super C. Yeah, that's right, practice an already difficult game by playing games that are even more difficult. It could make me the Super Saiyan of Gaming!

NE146

05-23-2012, 02:15 PM