Nintendo Hardware and Software sales - Famicom to 3DS

[RCM]

This is pretty interesting:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/hard_soft/index.html

[Rob2600]

This is pretty interesting:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/hard_soft/index.html

I just did some calculating. The tie ratio for the Wii is *higher* than it was for the NES and SNES!

Here are worldwide Nintendo game-to-console tie ratios (as of March 31st, 2012):


HOME CONSOLES:

NES/Famicom: 8.1 games per console sold

SNES/Super Famicom: 7.7 games per console sold

N64: 6.8 games per console sold

GameCube: 9.6 games per console sold

Wii: 8.5 games per console sold


PORTABLE CONSOLES:

Game Boy and Game Boy Color: 4.2 games per console sold

Game Boy Advance: 4.6 games per console sold

DS: 5.9 games per console sold

3DS: 2.7 games per console sold

[RCM]

I just did some calculating. The tie ratio for the Wii is *higher* than it was for the NES and SNES!

Here are worldwide Nintendo game-to-console tie ratios (as of March 31st, 2012):


HOME CONSOLES:

NES/Famicom: 8.1 games per console sold

SNES/Super Famicom: 7.7 games per console sold

N64: 6.8 games per console sold

GameCube: 9.6 games per console sold

Wii: 8.5 games per console sold


PORTABLE CONSOLES:

Game Boy and Game Boy Color: 4.2 games per console sold

Game Boy Advance: 4.6 games per console sold

DS: 5.9 games per console sold

3DS: 2.7 games per console sold

Yeah, I noticed this too, but I wonder if it's an apples-to-apples comparison. Wii had an awful lot of downloadable games, and I wouldn't be surprised if those counted towards its tie ratio. Do you know?

[TonyTheTiger]

Could also be the result of cheaper games on the Wii compared to NES pricing, same with the GCN. Overall, though, the ratios are nothing to shake a stick at. Even the N64 is rather admirable given the overall slim library and high cost compared to its contemporaries. Of course most of those sales are probably the result of a billion copies sold of the same 6 games but still.

[Rob2600]

Yeah, I noticed this too, but I wonder if it's an apples-to-apples comparison. Wii had an awful lot of downloadable games, and I wouldn't be surprised if those counted towards its tie ratio. Do you know?

I don't know, but either way (disc-based, download-only, or both), it means people are buying and playing a good amount of games on the Wii...which contradicts those who say most people only bought a Wii to play Wii Sports and nothing else.

[heybtbm]

Counting VC and downloadable games as "software sold". How delicious.

I love corporate spin.

[RCM]

I don't know, but either way (disc-based, download-only, or both), it means people are buying and playing a good amount of games on the Wii...which contradicts those who say most people only bought a Wii to play Wii Sports and nothing else.

Or buying them, playing them once or twice like Wii Fit, and then chucking them under their bed. Those who say people only bought Wii to play Wii Sports are certainly misinformed. However, I'd still like to know how Nintendo counts software sold. Is Wii Sports included? How about Wii Play? That "game" was in the NPD top 10 for years, literally, but I'd bet a majority of people bought it for the extra controller as opposed to the game itself. I wonder if M$ and Sony do the same in terms of mixing cheap downloadable games along with more expensive retail stuff. I understand why they'd rather lump the two together, but it's a little deceptive if they are.

[Rob2600]

Considering a very small handful of Wii games (like Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros., Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort, and New Super Mario Bros.) sold more than 125 million copies alone, I assume the total software sales - and thus, the attach rate - *doesn't* include downloadable games.

However, I don't like the attitude that downloadable games shouldn't count as "real" games.

And there was a study from a couple of years ago that showed Wii owners played games only 30 minutes a day less than Xbox 360 and PS3 owners. That doesn't seem like they're only playing games once and then putting them in storage, but who knows?

[Robocop2]

However, I don't like the attitude that downloadable games shouldn't count as "real" games.



I tend to agree. A game is a game no matter how small. Or etherial in this case.

[RCM]

I tend to agree. A game is a game no matter how small. Or etherial in this case.

I'm certainly not trying to belittle downloadable games, but saying Wii has a larger software tie ratio in comparison to platforms that only had expensive retail games isn't telling the whole story. It's a distinction absolutely worth making and tells a far more accurate story, assuming platform holders do indeed mix the two.

[Rob2600]

saying Wii has a larger software tie ratio in comparison to platforms that only had expensive retail games isn't telling the whole story.

Which of the other two competing consoles only has expensive retail games, and no downloadable games?

Anyway, I already posted that while I'm not 100% sure, it seems likely that the Wii's tie ratio only includes physical disc-based games.

[Bojay1997]

I don't know, but either way (disc-based, download-only, or both), it means people are buying and playing a good amount of games on the Wii...which contradicts those who say most people only bought a Wii to play Wii Sports and nothing else.

Well, in all fairness, they are including Wii Sports in the total sales and therefore the attach rate, so it's not like that represented an actual sale since it was a free pack-in. Also, given the vast size of the shovelware and sub $20 library on the Wii, it's not really a sign that sales of software are robust especially since both PS3 and 360 have similar attach rates, but much higher overall software pricing and in the case of 360, a whole second revenue stream from XBL. In any event, it's interesting but really does little to show that people continue buying games for their Wii consoles long term, especially since you could literally have 25% of Wii owners buying up to 30+ games in the lifetime of the console (i.e. buyers like myself and many others here) while the other 75% only bought one or two and still get a similar attach rate.

[RCM]

Which of the other two competing consoles only has expensive retail games, and no downloadable games?

Anyway, I already posted that while I'm not 100% sure, it seems likely that the Wii's tie ratio only includes physical disc-based games.

You initially posted "The tie ratio for the Wii is *higher* than it was for the NES and SNES!" so I was reacting a bit more to that, to clarify.

[Rob2600]

Well, in all fairness, they are including Wii Sports in the total sales and therefore the attach rate, so it's not like that represented an actual sale since it was a free pack-in.

All Nintendo consoles have had pack-ins, so it's a fair comparison to previous Nintendo console attach rates. All three current consoles have had pack-ins too, so again, of course it's a fair comparison.


Also, given the vast size of the shovelware and sub $20 library on the Wii, it's not really a sign that sales of software are robust especially since both PS3 and 360 have similar attach rates, but much higher overall software pricing

That makes absolutely no sense. That's like saying "The fact that the PlayStation had a higher attach rate than the N64 doesn't count, because PlayStation had a lot more budget-priced shovelware." There are plenty of lower-priced games on the Xbox 360 and PS3, but even if there weren't, that isn't Nintendo's fault.

I just can't believe that now Nintendo is being scorned for possibly having a higher amount of cheaper games than competing consoles, when back in the N64 days, Nintendo was scorned for having more expensive games. For some reason when it comes to Nintendo, the haters are constantly moving the goal posts. Do you want cheaper games or do you want more expensive games? Pick one and stick with it. And a game sale counts as a game sale, regardless of whether Microsoft charges $60 per game or Nintendo charges $20 per game.


You initially posted "The tie ratio for the Wii is *higher* than it was for the NES and SNES!" so I was reacting a bit more to that, to clarify.

I see, thanks for clarifying.

[Leo_A]

Well, in all fairness, they are including Wii Sports in the total sales and therefore the attach rate, so it's not like that represented an actual sale since it was a free pack-in.

The link I went to said nothing of the sort. No note stating that these figures include games that were bundled with consoles.

As for the thing about pricing, it simply isn't correct. Even following your logic, it simply doesn't apply. The games that sold best on the Wii (Typically 1st party releases) kept their MSRP for extended periods, often years on end.

On the Xbox 360 or PS3, you can quickly find even the most successful games at significantly reduced prices. And hits on those two consoles are almost routinely rereleased at budget prices, something that has been very uncommon on the Wii and only recently started by Nintendo themselves.

[Bojay1997]

The link I went to said nothing of the sort. No note stating that these figures include games that were bundled with consoles.

Take a look at the total software sales number on which the attach rate data is based. It absolutely includes Wii Sports.

[Leo_A]

Looks like you're right.

Initially I thought they were just examples of some of the better selling Wii games or Japanese specific best sellers since I was unaware that Wii Sports Resort had done so well.

Yet it's in 3rd place for worldwide sales.

[Bojay1997]

All three current consoles did not have a pack-in from launch and for most of their lives. Other than a few holiday bundles and theme bundles on the 360 and PS3, there have never really been pack-in games for more than a few months at a time. Also, Wii owners had no other choice but to buy Wii Sports, it's not like there were non-game bundles available until the past year or two.

Software pricing absolutely makes a difference and so does inflation. The fact that Nintendo NES or SNES games were the equivalent of $70+ in current dollars indicates that people were willing to make more significantly expensive purchases which in turn resulted in higher profit margins to Nintendo. Buying a bunch of $10 or $20 third party games means minimal profits to Nintendo on those game sales.

Nobody is moving the goal posts, but the value of attach rate data isn't just the raw number. It's also about what that translates into down the road and whether the company is profitable. Frankly, I like the Wii a lot and I think it has a great library. Having said that, the last few years have been pretty poor software wise and Nintendo's profit and loss numbers this year have borne that out.



All Nintendo consoles have had pack-ins, so it's a fair comparison to previous Nintendo console attach rates. All three current consoles have had pack-ins too, so again, of course it's a fair comparison.



That makes absolutely no sense. That's like saying "The fact that the PlayStation had a higher attach rate than the N64 doesn't count, because PlayStation had a lot more budget-priced shovelware." There are plenty of lower-priced games on the Xbox 360 and PS3, but even if there weren't, that isn't Nintendo's fault.

I just can't believe that now Nintendo is being scorned for possibly having a higher amount of cheaper games than competing consoles, when back in the N64 days, Nintendo was scorned for having more expensive games. For some reason when it comes to Nintendo, the haters are constantly moving the goal posts. Do you want cheaper games or do you want more expensive games? Pick one and stick with it. And a game sale counts as a game sale, regardless of whether Microsoft charges $60 per game or Nintendo charges $20 per game.



I see, thanks for clarifying.

[Rob2600]

All three current consoles did not have a pack-in from launch and for most of their lives. Other than a few holiday bundles and theme bundles on the 360 and PS3, there have never really been pack-in games for more than a few months at a time. Also, Wii owners had no other choice but to buy Wii Sports, it's not like there were non-game bundles available until the past year or two.

Software pricing absolutely makes a difference and so does inflation. The fact that Nintendo NES or SNES games were the equivalent of $70+ in current dollars indicates that people were willing to make more significantly expensive purchases which in turn resulted in higher profit margins to Nintendo. Buying a bunch of $10 or $20 third party games means minimal profits to Nintendo on those game sales.

Nobody is moving the goal posts, but the value of attach rate data isn't just the raw number. It's also about what that translates into down the road and whether the company is profitable. Frankly, I like the Wii a lot and I think it has a great library. Having said that, the last few years have been pretty poor software wise and Nintendo's profit and loss numbers this year have borne that out.

I wasn't talking about profitability, I was talking purely about attach rates. The general consensus on DP is that people buy the Wii, play Wii Sports and maybe one other game, and then forget about it. I pointed out that the general consensus turned out to be wrong. In fact, people own more games for the Wii than they did for the NES and SNES, which people here on DP consider to be huge successes. It was something I found amusing (the fact that the general attitude toward the Wii is based on BS instead of numbers).



And for the record, the top selling Wii games as of April 2012 are:

Wii Sports (76.76 million)
Mario Kart Wii (31.91 million)
Wii Sports Resort (29.87 million)
Wii Play (27.38 million)
New Super Mario Bros. Wii (25.47 million)
Wii Fit (22.61 million)
Wii Fit Plus (20.24 million)
Super Mario Galaxy (10.4 million)
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (9.48 million)
Wii Party (7.68 million)
Mario Party 8 (7.6 million)
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (7.09 million)
Super Mario Galaxy 2 (6.36 million)
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (5.82 million)
Just Dance 2 (5 million)
Donkey Kong Country Returns (4.98 million)
Link's Crossbow Training (4.80 million)
Just Dance (4.3 million)
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (3.42 million)
Animal Crossing: City Folk (3.38 million)
Wii Music (2.65 million)
Mario and Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (2.4 million)
Super Paper Mario (2.28 million)
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree (2.26 million)
Super Mario All-Stars 25th Anniversary Edition (2.24 million)
Michael Jackson: The Experience (2 million)
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (2 million)
Deca Sports (2 million shipped)
Game Party (2 million shipped)
Monster Hunter Tri (1.9 million)

[Bojay1997]

So Wii Sports Resort is the #3 seller? That doesn't sound right yet that's what it's saying if we're going to take those few examples in each category literally.

I don't think these are necessarily in order of success, they're just examples of some popular software for the platform. And keep in mind that Wii Sports isn't always a bundled game. In fact it wasn't in Japan yet still was a huge success. And look at where this link is coming from.

I'm not saying they're figured in or not figured in, what I'm saying is we really don't know since it doesn't state it on way or another. And even if it does, I fail to see the significance. Particularly before the N64, game bundles were the norm for Nintendo.

They simply listed the top selling games on each platform. So, yes, Wii Sports Resort is the #3 selling Wii game behind Mario Kart at 32 million units and Wii Sports which sold almost 80 million copies or roughly 10% of the total software sales on the Wii.

[Bojay1997]

I wasn't talking about profitability, I was talking purely about attach rates. The general consensus on DP is that people buy the Wii, play Wii Sports and maybe one other game, and then forget about it. I was point out that obviously that isn't the case at all. In fact, people own more games for the Wii than they did for the NES and SNES, which people here on DP consider to be huge successes. It was something I found amusing.

Except that the attach rate data doesn't say that at all. It simply says that an average of 8 games are sold per Wii. There could be 75% of the Wii owners never buying a single game except the pack-in and 25% which buy 32+ games and you'd still have your eight per console. There can also be some other combination of that (i.e. new buyers go out and buy 3-4 cheap games, play the console for a few weeks and then never play it again and a group that buys 15-20 games over the life of the console). They can also buy games for $10 at Costco at Christmas or $50 on launch day. The attach rate doesn't tell us. The point is, unlike the NES and SNES, there is a huge pool of cheap shovelware and impulse exercise or mini-game stuff available on the Wii that I doubt many people played very long after they bought it. Attach rate data simply doesn't make or dispute the point you think it does. The real data to determine that would be some of the average hours played survey data that's out there which although it's more subjective, at least attempts to provide a more accurate picture of what's going on in the real world.

[Rob2600]

Except that the attach rate data doesn't say that at all. It simply says that an average of 8 games are sold per Wii. There could be 75% of the Wii owners never buying a single game except the pack-in and 25% which buy 32+ games and you'd still have your eight per console.

How do we know the same can't be said about the NES and SNES attach rates?

[Bojay1997]

How do we know the same can't be said about the NES and SNES attach rates?

You're right, attach rate says nothing about whether people actually stopped playing their consoles beyond launch or when their purchases were made. Of course, it also doesn't support your argument that they did continue playing or continued buying. It's basically just a useless financial statistic.

[Rob2600]

You're right, attach rate says nothing about whether people actually stopped playing their consoles beyond launch or when their purchases were made. Of course, it also doesn't support your argument that they did continue playing or continued buying. It's basically just a useless financial statistic.

Way to suck all the fun out of this thread ;)

[joshnickerson]

It does remind me that back when I was a kid in the NES days, not many other kids had more than half a dozen or so NES games, and usually consisted of a Super Mario game, one or two other first party games, then the rest filled with Acclaim/LJN garbage.

We're gamers, so of course we're gonna have large libraries. The average person, not so much.

[Collector_Gaming]

someone thats knowledge about the going average sale price of when the units shown were relevant in your every day walmart or whatever and tally up how much money nintendo has made since the Nintendo Entertainment System/Family Computer was first released.

I for one would like to see those numbers.

[rbudrick]

No Virtual Boy listed. Dicks.

-Rob

[Gamevet]

All Nintendo consoles have had pack-ins, so it's a fair comparison to previous Nintendo console attach rates. All three current consoles have had pack-ins too, so again, of course it's a fair comparison.


I'm pretty sure that most of Nintendo's consoles/handhelds have had packages that did not include a pack-in game. The fruity colored N64s didn't have a pack-in game, my GBA SP didn't have a game included, and there was a basic NES set that didn't have a pack-in as well. Are there any Wii consoles that didn't include a pack-in?

[Leo_A]

No pack ins was pretty common for several Nintendo consoles. The later years of the NES, the later years of the SuperNes (From about 1994 or so onwards), the vast majority of N64's, the vast majority of GCN's.

I can't say North America ever got a packless Wii SKU, but Japan certainly did. I believe that was how the console was sold over there for its first several years.

[otaku]

wow the wii and DS were huge hits for them bizarre to see things fall off so suddenly though. The company is a damn good one even seeing some low numbers like the GC and a few bombs like the virtual boy. They seem to be the only ones who have consistently made money in the business unlike MS and Sony. And usually with high quality games (that they publish anyway) and reliable affordable hardware!

[Hep038]

Way to suck all the fun out of this thread ;)



I though this was just another Nintendo propaganda thread.... Where is the fun in that?

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

I wasn't talking about profitability, I was talking purely about attach rates. The general consensus on DP is that people buy the Wii, play Wii Sports and maybe one other game, and then forget about it. I pointed out that the general consensus turned out to be wrong. In fact, people own more games for the Wii than they did for the NES and SNES, which people here on DP consider to be huge successes. It was something I found amusing (the fact that the general attitude toward the Wii is based on BS instead of numbers).

But the question becomes, "Do people PLAY their Wii games as much as they played SNES and NES?" Maybe they need a new stat called "play rate." It seems like people today are still playing the top selling NES and SNES games, but I doubt they are still playing games like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. Maybe they are still playing Marion Kart Wii and Mario Galaxy though.

I think the attitude toward the Wii on DP comes from peoples experiences, not any type of sales figures. I myself got caught up in the Wii excitement of several years ago. I bought a bunch of games that I don't play anymore. The Wii balance board is leaning against the wall in front of me, and I have no desire to go back to it. I also have a bunch of Wii games on the bookshelf, but haven't played one in about half a year.