Resurface discs good, bad, or just ugly, Do you think they bring down the value?

[PROTOTYPE]

Reason I'm bringing this up is I've been seeing a lot more of these.[ just got one today ] Question is does it wreck them and Does it bring the value down of the games? :roll:

[Edmond Dantes]

I don't mind resurfacing. I think the value stays the same as long as the game still works, though I have heard of people being picky about it.

[jb143]

With one of those hand cranked contraptions? I don't trust those and wouldn't like it if I bought a game not knowing it had swirlies all over the bottom whether it worked or not. It might be a different story if I knew before hand and could negotiate the price or just decide not to buy it.

If they're professionally resurfaced though, then you can't even tell.

[Gameguy]

If they're professionally resurfaced though, then you can't even tell.
I've had a disc "professionally" resurfaced at a game store near me. It plays properly now but is full of swirl marks, I was told the machine cost a few thousand dollars.

[wiggyx]

Makes 'em totally worthless IMO. Those "Disc Doctor" devices are total horse shit. DVD/Bluray games almost NEVER work after touching one of those things and CD games are a crapshoot at best.

I've sanded and polished games to bring them back to life, but that's only if they're totally beat.

[SpaceFlea]

It's both bad and ugly. And, as a picky collector, it seriously devalues the game.


If they're professionally resurfaced though, then you can't even tell.

Yes, you most certainly can. It's particularly obvious on PlayStation games.

[Clownzilla]

It's both bad and ugly. And, as a picky collector, it seriously devalues the game.



Yes, you most certainly can. It's particularly obvious on PlayStation games.

A local game\comic book\card store has one of those $3000 resurfacers and I have to say that I have taken some REALLY bad discs in and brought out discs without a scratch. Don't know if it's a different type of machine or brand but it has amazing results.

[Enmity]

most games stores that have those machines don't know how to properly use them and don't buff the disk when they are done. I worked with one of those machines for a decent amount of time before Rhino got bought out and if done correctly it makes those disks look amazing. If not done right it can completely destroy the disks.

Also saying they cost thousands is a joke.

almost all stores I've seen that have had those machines use this one
http://www.jfjdiscrepair.com/

[kedawa]

The really good automated ones cost thousands.
The basic manually operated ones, which can deliver the same results, are far less expensive.

[Oldskool]

A good machine should polish any disc perfectly (if done right). The problem is that most places don't keep up on the buffers and solution, or they don't do all the steps properly. Any machine 150 dollars and higher should be able to make it look perfect, even a PS1 game. When I buff PS1 games they pretty much come out mirror perfect.

[Gameguy]

I believe the store near me has a machine from Azuradisc. They charge $5 per disc but I don't think they know how to use it properly. That was the first disc I ever had resurfaced and I don't plan on ever having to do that again, I'll just be more picky with CDs now.

[sloan]

It's both bad and ugly. And, as a picky collector, it seriously devalues the game.



Yes, you most certainly can. It's particularly obvious on PlayStation games.

You could not tell the games in my collection that have been resurfaced to tell the difference. Professionally done resurfacing looks like a mirror finish and is undetectable.

[wiggyx]

I wanna see some nice macro shots of these undetectably resurfaced discs. I have also never seen a "professionally" resurfacing job that looks much better than a 20 dollar disc doctor. It's not that I don't believe it, but I DO want to actually see it.

[Doonzmore]

Few weeks ago a salesman at Play n Trade was pitching me his 15,000 dollar disc repair system from Netflix. He claims that's one of the reasons why their prices are higher than their competitors.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

The used game stores where I live use the resurfacer on every disc-based game that gets bought. I've never had a problem with it. It makes the game more likely to work when you get it home. I've always looked for good label condition and good box condition, but I never cared about what the bottom of a disc looks like.

[jb143]

A local game\comic book\card store has one of those $3000 resurfacers and I have to say that I have taken some REALLY bad discs in and brought out discs without a scratch. Don't know if it's a different type of machine or brand but it has amazing results.

That's the same experience I've had. Maybe there are cheaper expensive machines out there but the place I take them to(Family Video, $1.50 per disc) they squirt on some stuff, put it in the buffer (which looks a bit like a PC tower) and it comes out looking like new. I've had discs that looked horrible and would play that come out like new. I can't speak for PS1 discs though or other buffers, they might be a different story.

I did try a place that had a machine that looked more like a cotton candy machine and had more of a scrubby pad in it. The disc came out looking ok but didn't work. Then I took it to the other place and it came out as good as new.

[wiggyx]

The only reason people site PS1 discs as being especially difficult to remove scratches from is the color of the plastic itself. The black color makes scuffs, scratches, and debris FAR more visible simply because of the high contrast between the dark plastic and the bright highlights thrown from the scratches and scuffs themselves. If they were a more neutral shade, like a normal CD, then those same scratches would be a lot harder to see.

Treat a music CD and a PS1 disc the same way and they'll scuff just the same. Try and polish up either and the results will be identical. You just can't see those tiny little abrasions left on the silver disc. I still don't get why Sony insisted on using black discs. Makes no sense to me at all.

[jb143]

I wanna see some nice macro shots of these undetectably resurfaced discs. I have also never seen a "professionally" resurfacing job that looks much better than a 20 dollar disc doctor. It's not that I don't believe it, but I DO want to actually see it.

If I remember this weekend, when I get some time (and provided I can get a good pic), I'll snap a pick of my New Super Mario Bros that I got from Salvation Army. It looked like some clumsy people played frisbe with it over gravel and now it looks like new.

[otaku]

its not ideal but it beats the game just being tossed or never played again. Its kind of like a restoration of a car in my mind the fewer resurfacings the better.
That said the local library wouldn't have working games if not for a resurfacing machine. And same goes for the local video store (where I get mine resurfaced) $2 bucks beats a non working game you might have to pay $$$ to replace imo.

[sloan]

The only reason people site PS1 discs as being especially difficult to remove scratches from is the color of the plastic itself. The black color makes scuffs, scratches, and debris FAR more visible simply because of the high contrast between the dark plastic and the bright highlights thrown from the scratches and scuffs themselves. If they were a more neutral shade, like a normal CD, then those same scratches would be a lot harder to see.

Treat a music CD and a PS1 disc the same way and they'll scuff just the same. Try and polish up either and the results will be identical. You just can't see those tiny little abrasions left on the silver disc. I still don't get why Sony insisted on using black discs. Makes no sense to me at all.

Similar situation with the PS2 purple discs. That purple surface shows the scratches and scuff marks easier than the silver discs. I never resurface a disc just for aesthetics. My sole reason is if the disc has trouble playing or if I suspect that will be the case. A few light scratches do no bother me in the slightest.

[Robocop2]

I would think a working disc with some swirl marks would be worth more than a disc that was scratched to hell and didn't work

[jperryss]

I would think a working disc with some swirl marks would be worth more than a disc that was scratched to hell and didn't work

Agreed. How can an unplayable game be worth more than a resurfaced one that works perfectly (everything else being equal)?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I can't speak to the question of value/devaluation, but as far as the actual resurfacing process goes, with one of those professional machines, if it's done properly and the scratches on the disc are actually optimal enough to be removed, the surface of the disc should look perfect.

What I HAVE noticed though is that either particles of the surface layer of the disc, or materials from the chemical solutions used during the process occasionally get between the open layers of plastic in the center hole of the disc (I never even knew there were two layers there until I had some discs resurfaced) and its pretty much impossible to get that stuff out without risking damage.

That tends to bother me but it's just an aesthetic thing as far as I can tell.

[understatement]

I have a JFJ Pro and I’ve made a ton of discs look like new. The only time the machine starts to leave a light swirl is when the pads are about a month old and the solutions used dries inside the pads and makes them a bit to abrasive. I’ve been able to extend it to about two months by putting the pads in plastic baggies and taking most of the air out so they won’t dry out as fast.


What I HAVE noticed though is that either particles of the surface layer of the disc, or materials from the chemical solutions used during the process occasionally get between the open layers of plastic in the center hole of the disc (I never even knew there were two layers there until I had some discs resurfaced) and its pretty much impossible to get that stuff out without risking damage.

I’ve had this happen once when I used too much solution on the pads but it has never happened when the proper amount is used, with my machine at least.

The only thing I can complain about is in the same ballpark though, you have to bolt the CD to the free spinning platform and the plastic nut you use puts scratches around the center hole but I’d rather have scratches there then on the disc.

[Shulamana]

When I bought my Game Boy Player, the boot disc had some strange residue on the bottom that iso alcohol wouldn't even touch, took it to a game shop that offers resurfacing, and they managed to get it off.

It doesn't look resurfaced in the slightest, however the guy there said he didn't need to use the abrasives on it, and because of that he didn't charge me for it either.

[goatdan]

I've dealt with a lot of used disc games with the GOAT Store, and I hate the swirl thing that the hand-crank things make on the discs. But, sometimes you get a lot of games from someone that are advertised as "great condition!" and they come in and have scratches all over them and they won't play.

Our local place that resurfaces them and us have worked out a deal, and I take them in there. I don't even mark them as different because I cannot tell the difference myself. They do a perfect job on them, and I have seen games that should have no change of ever coming back from the dead look like a brand new game after they are done with them. I actually had them do a bunch of my PS1 collection that I picked up, and I couldn't tell you which discs they have done and which they haven't.

If you can find a place that knows what they are doing and cares, resurfacing doesn't change the value at all, other than to perhaps make a non-working title work again.

[sloan]

My biggest concern with used game discs is the embedded label-side stickers that the rental outfits put on them. IMO, these do devalue discs, and when I say, "embedded", I mean EMBEDDED. I ruined a Dreamcast disc by trying to use a heat gun and razor scraper to remove one of these rental stickers that almost covered the entire label side of the disc. That decal peeled down to the data layer as I tried to remove it.:|

[Flashback2012]

How ironic that there's a thread about this. I was browsing GS's website last night for upcoming releases and somehow happened upon this...

JFJ Easy Pro Disc Repair Machine (http://www.gamestop.com/accessories/jfj-easy-pro-disc-repair-machine/88392) :moon:

I've never been one for owning resurfaced games personally. I've always maintained that with proper care, such devices would be absolutely unnecessary. Of course, when I worked for GS, I saw thousands upon thousands of discs that were in absolutely horrible shape brought in from customers thinking they were worth the same as if they were mint. We almost never turned down trades and on every last one of these games we'd charge a refurbishing fee for them. It sometimes amazed me that the customers took us up on the amounts offered after they got butchered with fees. @_@

[Cornelius]

I'm not sure how universal it is, but I've noticed that otherwise perfectly resurfaced discs lose their sharp 'corner' on the data side. Just something I've noticed on some of mine, I'd be curious of some of you guys have noticed the same (or would check yours to see).

For the value question, I only think it matters for the "collector only" type games, and maybe some other high value games. I'm thinking offhand of stuff like Valkyrie Profile, Suikoden II, Snatcher, PDS, and the like. I could see in those cases a working but obviously resurfaced copy bringing less than a working lightly scratched copy. Also, I suspect a perfectly resurfaced (disclosed) copy would bring a slight bit less than a perfect copy, although probably not a big enough difference to see because of normal fluctuations.

[ifkz]

I only buy terribly scratched discs at a discount and then only if they are cheap or rare. I've brought many games back from the grave using the resurfacing tower type machines at Blockbuster or Gamecrazy stores when they were around. I have them to thank for getting the chance to play Lunar 2-Eternal Blue on a real Sega CD, it would not load past the title screen before the resurface treatment. I have had nothing but good experiences with the stores that provide the service. Game Doctors or other methods (like a felt buffer grinder) I stay away from.

I guess if sold they should have a small discount, maybe 10%, but if it's a rare title I'm usually just happy to have it anyhow. Most of my Sega CD collection has been buffed, and I see no problem with that. After all, the good-rare titles on that system don't come up often, and I'll happily add it if a refurb will get it playing 100%.

If bought low, it can do nothing but add value to your game.

[sloan]

I know there are those that disagree, but anything of mine that I ever sell (if that day comes), I will not divulge resurfacing and no one will be the wiser. I even do the same with old game carts, replacing missing end labels on 2600 games and such. They look original, and no one needs to know.

[Tokimemofan]

My biggest concern with used game discs is the embedded label-side stickers that the rental outfits put on them. IMO, these do devalue discs, and when I say, "embedded", I mean EMBEDDED. I ruined a Dreamcast disc by trying to use a heat gun and razor scraper to remove one of these rental stickers that almost covered the entire label side of the disc. That decal peeled down to the data layer as I tried to remove it.:|

With those it is the luck of the draw, some come off without any trouble others destroy the disc.

[PROTOTYPE]

Wow, a lot of good answers...But here is my opinion if its been resurface, please note this for the collector, Why? Not all buffers are the same, some leave the swirly marks on the discs or make them cloudy.Now can you guarantee me that the resurface disc will play all the way thru the game without any hic ups? How deep were the scratches in the first place? Again, I have no problems with it as long I don't see the stinking marks like I did today. [ ps1 disc ] she did give me a discount to keep the game which was nice.Sometimes I will get a disc that was buff that still has a small scratch or two on it and when the game get's to that mark it skip or froze. Again, they are listing these games LIKE NEW and that is a not true, its been resurface... Please Read what e-bay says about like new condition is, Like You just open it only missing is it's outer wrapper. Nothing about resurfacing? If you list it that way [resurface]and I see no marks on it, fine unless noted. And if I get a game that has the swirly marks on it or cloudy, expect to get a e-mail from me..game over. note: light scratches rarely affect game play. note 2 = there are some e-bay sellers that do list that they are resurface discs and have no marks and guarantee them too.

[Edmond Dantes]

There's a Game Xchange in the next town over that I go to when I want games buffered. The people there know what they're doing and usually the games work awesomely after they're done. The only things they haven't been able to save have all already been near-death anyway.

They do leave swirlies, but who cares?

[bend]

Saying you wouldn't buy a resurfaced disk is like saying you wouldn't buy a car with a light scratch removed by a professional. Good luck telling the difference because you wont if it's done properly. You do realize they use the same processes right? Whether it's clearcoat or the protective layer on the bottom of a disc, it's the same thing.

All the things posters are complaining about are due to user error or the equipment used being insufficient or improperly used. A disc professionally resurfaced properly should look brand new unless there are scratches that are too deep, much like a car.

The first step in resurfacing a disc is removing a thin layer off your disc. This is where abrasives are used. Your disc is like a car. The paint is protected by a clearcoat like a disc has a plastic layer covering the data. Whether it's with a fine grit piece of sandpaper or a some kind of rubbing compound, you're just sanding the top to get a nice even surface. You're essentially scratching your disc in this process but the materials are so fine they are smoothing the surface. Sanding a thin layer is what gets the surface even and helps soften your scratches so they can be buffed out. This is the process that gives your disc the swirly or cloudy look. A good machine should have a constant supply of water. No professional would fix a scratch on your car without a constant supply of water. This is why your hand crank cleaners are garbage. Water helps to protect the layer while you're sanding it and gives you a smoother finish. Without a nice smooth finish, you'll never get the scratches and cloudiness to buff out. That's why most professional disc cleaners have a jet feeding water to the disc surface during this process.

The second step is the buffing. There's a reason why a detailer uses a buffer and not his hands. It's not because of convenience, it's because he needs to achieve a certain amount of RPM's to get a good result. Your discs are swirly or cloudy because you're not getting enough speed and pressure during the buffing, or the surface of the disc isn't as smooth as it could be.

Now the cons of resurfacing a disc are the same as wetsanding the body of a car. Since you're taking a thin layer off that protective surface, you can't get that back. Eventually you're going to hit the paint/data. Resurface a disc too many times and it will be a coaster.

[Parodius Duh!]

Worthless in my eyes. I wouldnt pay a nickel for the rarest disc based game in the world if its been resurfaced.....and when "done professionally" you can still tell, and for every person polishing discs out there, its like 1 in every 5000 people know what they are doing. Good luck finding a resurfaced disc that you cant tell has been resurfaced, thats a rare sight.

[PROTOTYPE]

Looks like a Hot topic, either you don't care or hell no.To me I'm little on the later side.Lets face the facts here, when you get a game that's in mint condition and open the case and everything is what you expected it to look like is a great feeling..but if you notice that its been resurface? your telling me that's OK and you paid big time money for it too. Get real, there is a difference and should be with the price as well.As one person already admitted if he sold them he wouldn't tell anyone WHY? because he knows that it would affect the price.

[jb143]

I think people are talking about 2 different things here. If you have an ultra rare game for your collection then leave it in whatever condition it's in. It's like painting an expensive antique chair so it will look new. That (as I understand) is a big no no in the collector community.

But if you have a game that you want to play but it won't work because it's scratched up then by all means get it fixed... but get it fixed right. The New Super Mario Bros I mentioned earlier I bought at a thrift store for like $10, it didn't work so I took it to a place I knew could fix it right and would only charge me $1.50 Maybe if you take a microscope or an ultra sensitive micrometer to it you could tell...but you could tell that it looked scratched up and wouldn't work before hand with much less effort.

Disc Doctor should be tried for malpractice though, I wouldn't let one of them come within 10 feet of even my most worthless disc.

[kedawa]

It's more of a no-no not to restore old furniture.
Fine furniture should never be allowed to degrade to the point of looking like neglected garbage, but if it has, it should be restored.
As far as rare games go, I would say leave it as is and let the buyer decide if they want to resurface or not, since it's apparently such a contentious issue.

[sloan]

To me, the people who "can tell" that a disc has been resurfaced (professionally that is) are lying. I have literally taken a magnifying glass to the discs I have had properly resurfaced and you cannot tell the difference between those and a factory original surface finish, save a couple where the scratches went too deep for the machine to be able to get them all out.

I think it boils down to a "princess and the pea" mentality. It is THE IDEA that the disc has been resurfaced that offends the "purists". Now, I am not saying that I would ever list a Disk Dr. resurfaced disc on ebay as "very good" or "like new" condition as that would be blatantly dishonest. However, I would venture to say that I could list a professionally resurfaced disc on ebay as "like new" and the buyer would be none the wiser.

[Sunnyvale]

In my experience, resurfacing doesn't hurt the value, it helps it. You take a $20 game with some light scratches, now it's $17 or so. Resurface, back up to $20.
As for the ultra-rare games, there it becomes a matter of taste. But if I was planning on selling Popful Mail complete, with a working but hammered disc, I'd get it resurfaced. And get more money for it.
So, if you wanna keep it, ask yourself if you care or not. If you intend to resell, nothing looks better on a disc game than 'No scratches'.

[PROTOTYPE]

To me, the people who "can tell" that a disc has been resurfaced (professionally that is) are lying. OK, Ahhhh wrong. I been collecting ps1 games for years and when I look at the bottom of the disc I can tell the difference right away.Either that I'm getting a lot of the crappier ones sent to me.No kidding, got one today as I been buying a lot lately it was buff so you can see from the inter ring to outer smooth swirls. Yes, the game plays fine... but it still looks like crap,I'm glad didn't pay that much but...

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Lets face the facts here, when you get a game that's in mint condition and open the case and everything is what you expected it to look like is a great feeling..but if you notice that its been resurface? your telling me that's OK and you paid big time money for it too. Get real, there is a difference and should be with the price as well.As one person already admitted if he sold them he wouldn't tell anyone WHY? because he knows that it would affect the price.

I have ordered a lot of high value PS1 games, and I have never checked the bottom for resurfacing. In fact, I never even thought about it until this thread came up. It just doesn't matter to me; it's at the bottom of the disc, the part that's furthest from view. In fact, I would rather have it resurfaced now that I think about it.

[kedawa]

To me, the people who "can tell" that a disc has been resurfaced (professionally that is) are lying. OK, Ahhhh wrong. I been collecting ps1 games for years and when I look at the bottom of the disc I can tell the difference right away.Either that I'm getting a lot of the crappier ones sent to me.No kidding, got one today as I been buying a lot lately it was buff so you can see from the inter ring to outer smooth swirls. Yes, the game plays fine... but it still looks like crap,I'm glad didn't pay that much but...

You can tell because they were resurfaced poorly.
How many times does this need to be repeated?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

To me, the people who "can tell" that a disc has been resurfaced (professionally that is) are lying. OK, Ahhhh wrong. I been collecting ps1 games for years and when I look at the bottom of the disc I can tell the difference right away.Either that I'm getting a lot of the crappier ones sent to me.No kidding, got one today as I been buying a lot lately it was buff so you can see from the inter ring to outer smooth swirls. Yes, the game plays fine... but it still looks like crap,I'm glad didn't pay that much but...

A game that has been professionally resurfaced, with a professional grade machine like the ones featured in this thread and done correctly will have NO SWIRLS WHATSOEVER.

There may be some other trace indicators like small remnants of particle matter from the microscopic layer of plastic removed or dried chemical solution, but you will not see any circular buffing swirls at all.

I've seen hundreds of resurface jobs at the Digital Press store over the past 5 years and when the machine is operated correctly there's no swirls.

At all.

The home-use hand crank/electric "Disc Doctor" devices, yes, those leave patterns, as will the pro-grade machines if not operated correctly.

[jb143]

How many times does this need to be repeated?

No kidding, I just read the last several posts and spent the last minute thinking I was on page 1 and wondering why clicking the "2" wasn't taking me to page 2.LOL

[camarotuner]

I've had a bunch of music cd's resurfaced by the local gaming store (what can I say I held out on buying an ipod for a long time lol) and I can not really tell the difference between the discs now vs new but honestly I wouldn't care either way.

Here's food for thought. Take a 69 Camaro RS/SS with terrible original paint and mint everything else. Have it stripped down and refinished at a high end shop back to factory original paint and you increase the value of the car. Take a valuable cd based game (call it game X). It's all scratched up and looks like crap but WORKS miraculously. Would it increase the value of the disc to have it looking good again (like the camaro) or would it be like refinishing an antique gun which destroys the value? What parallel (if any) should this hobby draw from other hobbies?

[Rickstilwell1]

I find that most buyers don't tend to care as long as the game works. There's only a few people out there who care.

[Gameguy]

I would consider a resurfaced disc the same as a disc that has light scratches but still works, it's something to keep until you find a copy in better condition.

[Kemoteo]

I love this topic. Here's my 2 cents (If anyone cares), Buying a resurfaced disc is like buying a used car. But not just any used car, a used car that was in an accident. Disc are resurfaced because most likely, it had deep scratches and therefore, did not work. Now, if a game is brought from the grave, is it fair to charge the same as if it were never resurfaced?

I can't see myself walking into a store and say, looking at Klonoa for the ps1, and seeing it scratched up. Guy says he will sell it for $50. Because, of course to him it's a rare game. But should he still charge me $50? Sure, he'll buff it. But it was damaged. Should he have the right to charge me premium price?

Same goes for a car. Will you pay Premium price for a wrecked car?

And there are many ways to tell when a disc was buffed.

1.) As stated before, marking are left behind.
2.) Polish, wax, etc are left on the ridges in the middle of the disc. Right on the grooves beside the hole.
3.) Scratches are still left in the middle. Sometimes the brushes don't get to the center where the disc is intact with the machine.
4.) Disc will look cloudy.
5.) My favorite, the edges of the disc are starting to show signs of it being melted down. As if the disc was passed through a machine a couple of times.

I personally am against this. Just for the purpose of people charging people premium prices for resurfaced games. And for misleading people with claims that disc looks like new and/or that disc was professionally cleaned. What is that? To me, that would say an Actual Person buffed them themselves. (Which I've seen, and they look way better than a machine will ever do.)

So yeah, great topic. I'm against it. Maybe because this, in the future, disc games will be considered more rare than cart based games. You never know.

[bend]

I love this topic. Here's my 2 cents (If anyone cares), Buying a resurfaced disc is like buying a used car. But not just any used car, a used car that was in an accident. Disc are resurfaced because most likely, it had deep scratches and therefore, did not work. Now, if a game is brought from the grave, is it fair to charge the same as if it were never resurfaced?


This analogy is way off. First of all, you can't remove deep scratches with resurfacing. It's like saying I can erase a hole in a sheet of paper. Resurfacing can only eliminate surface scratches. Second, it's like half of you have never seen paint on a car before. It gets scratched, it gets swirls, and it gets flat. It's completely normal. A good detailer can make your paint brand new again using the same exact process they use on cd's. This is a way better analogy than a car that's been in an accident.



And there are many ways to tell when a disc was buffed.

1.) As stated before, marking are left behind.
2.) Polish, wax, etc are left on the ridges in the middle of the disc. Right on the grooves beside the hole.
3.) Scratches are still left in the middle. Sometimes the brushes don't get to the center where the disc is intact with the machine.
4.) Disc will look cloudy.
5.) My favorite, the edges of the disc are starting to show signs of it being melted down. As if the disc was passed through a machine a couple of times.


No, no, no, no, NO!!!! Claiming you can tell when a disc has been resurfaced is like patting yourself on the back from noticing a shit paint job.

1.) There are markings left behind because either (a) The scratches were too deep. Either the scratches were already there and are too deep for removal or the abrasive step wasn't completed properly and the surface isn't smooth enough for buffing. (b) the disc wasn't buffed properly. It's all based on user error or the condition of the disc beforehand.

2.) Saying there's leftover polish in the middle of the disc is like saying there's overspray on a paint job. Do you get overspray on all paint jobs? No, just the shit ones. It's user error for not prepping properly.

3.) See number 1

4.) Your disc is cloudy because the abrasive procedure removes all the shine from the plastic because it is literally sanding the top layer of the disc. If it's still cloudy, it's because it hasn't been buffed properly. Again, user error.

5.) If your disc is melting it's because the pad has remained in the same spot for too long and has caused the surface to overheat. Why do you think a person using a buffer on a car keeps the buffer moving and not in the same spot? It's to keep the surface from overheating. Good disc machines are on a timer anyways. If they are melting, it's because the user is repeating the process without letting the disc cool. again, user error.

There's too many people here confused and are comparing a $7 car wash to a professional detailer. A car wash is not going to remove your swirls, and neither is a shitty resurfacing machine.

[sloan]

This topic is obviously going nowhere. There seem to be a few posters who have seen nothing but poorly done resurfacing jobs and are therefore erroneously biased against the process. Nothing we can say will change that, so, oh well.

One thing to add to a previous post: If there is buffing compound left in the center of the disc after resurfacing, how difficult is it to take a jeweler's screwdriver and carefully remove it? Just saying.

[Zing]

I have seen poor resurfacing, and perfect resurfacing. What I hate is when resellers feel the urge to resurface every game they sell. I hate even faint swirl marks and it does indeed lower the value of the game for me.

[wiggyx]

This topic is obviously going nowhere. There seem to be a few posters who have seen nothing but poorly done resurfacing jobs and are therefore erroneously biased against the process. Nothing we can say will change that, so, oh well.

One thing to add to a previous post: If there is buffing compound left in the center of the disc after resurfacing, how difficult is it to take a jeweler's screwdriver and carefully remove it? Just saying.



Well, if someone would post pics of a good example of a resurfaced disc, then maybe we'd be more likely to believe.

Prove that I'm "erroniously" biased. Like I said, it's not that I don't believe it can be done in such a way that it's undetectable, but rather that I have never seen an example as pristine as many of you claim.

[PROTOTYPE]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Road-Track-Presents-Need-Speed-PS1-PlayStation-1-PS-One-game-Complete-/400297483962?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item5d3396deba yea, if it turns out like this no problem and look how he sells this? When sellers that don't tell you is the real problem and the disc looks like crap.If all sellers put pictures of their discs like this, there would be no problem at all.. That's all I'm trying to say and as value? That's really a personnel choice and mine is it does.:roll:

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Well, if someone would post pics of a good example of a resurfaced disc, then maybe we'd be more likely to believe.

Prove that I'm "erroniously" biased. Like I said, it's not that I don't believe it can be done in such a way that it's undetectable, but rather that I have never seen an example as pristine as many of you claim.

I doubt that will be possible with photography. You're going to have to encounter a disc that has been optimally resurfaced in person.

I wasn't a believer until I saw a properly resurfaced game come right out of the machine and held it in my hands.

[Sunnyvale]

I doubt that will be possible with photography. You're going to have to encounter a disc that has been optimally resurfaced in person.

I wasn't a believer until I saw a properly resurfaced game come right out of the machine and held it in my hands.

This. My local Hasting's is the only place in town that makes them perfect, and I always look for the same girl to do it. After she cleaned a few for me, and I compared with other places, even other Hastings using the same gear, I was sold. I tell her all the time, to keep her proud of it, cause it does have tons to do with the operator.
I just wish they'd get a minidisc collar in, cause I got a pile of Cube games I need fixed. I won't take them anywhere else.

[xelement5x]

I think that the people complaining about resurfacing on discs already have plenty of games in their collection that have been resurfaced that they don't even know about. Like other people have mentioned, a disc that has been resurfaced properly is indistinguishable from a regular disc.

Now, when I receive games from eBay they go through a checklist with me. I won't go through all of it but the first thing to check is the case or box, the second is the disc.

I check for CD rot or scratches on the label, and next for signs of scratches or poor resurfacing that weren't mentioned to me. If it was sold to me without disclosing these and I notice them, I note it while I go through the rest of the checklist. If the game doesn't play well or seems to stutter the seller gets an email right away with my issues. A lot of people admit to resurfacing and let me return the game, or I'll take partial credit and have it resurfaced locally by someone I trust.

I don't mind if it's done properly, but a crappy job just makes me more upset. Even worse when they do it before shipping the game as a "bonus".

[sloan]

I had some PS2 discs resurfaced yesterday at a video rental shop. Mirror finish, as seen here:

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz71/tz101/100_0202.jpg

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz71/tz101/100_0201.jpg

[Gameguy]

Without seeing a picture I wouldn't have believed resurfaced discs could look that good.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Without seeing a picture I wouldn't have believed resurfaced discs could look that good.

The problem seems to be the prevalence of substandard resurfacing technology and/or incorrect usage of good resurfacing technology are FAR more commonplace than good resurfacing machines and/or people who know exactly how to use them.

Also, some discs simply can not be resurfaced based on the damage that they've incurred.

Optimal disc resurfacing should show no immediate indicators of the process. No lines, no swirls, no remnant fluid/particulate matter, ie you'd never know that it was a resurfaced disc unless you saw it pre-resurface and post-resurface to know the difference.

Anybody who thinks that a resurface can't make a disc 99.99% perfect (or as a close to perfect as a visual check without some type of microscopic visual investigation aid can be) simply needs to experience the event occur correctly personally with their own disc.

[wiggyx]

I had some PS2 discs resurfaced yesterday at a video rental shop. Mirror finish, as seen here:

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz71/tz101/100_0202.jpg

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz71/tz101/100_0201.jpg

That does look good, but it's way out of focus. Manual focus would be the key to getting a really decent shot of the actual surface and not the window reflected in it ;)

[sloan]

The first image is somewhat blurry, but that second image is not out of focus. I deliberately tried to get the reflection of the tree in that shot. If you are really interested in the surface detail of that game disc, look at the sections of that picture that show the window frame reflected in the disc. There is not a scratch or buff mark in that surface. If there was, it would show in the green tree foliage reflected in that disc. Notice the detail in the foliage of the tree and the crisp edges of the window frame reflected onto the shiny disc surface and tell me that picture is out of focus.

[MachineGex]

I have a little experience in this area. For over 7 years, I buffed over 100 discs a day(6 days a week). It all depends on the person working the machine, and to some extent the disc machine itself. If the scratch can be felt with your finger nail(like a clicking noise) then it is gonna take some real care to get it looking perfect. If it is just a bunch of scuffs and light scratches, then it should look brand if the person is good. You got keep your machine in proper order(pads, solution, papers, etc.) or you will get some bad swirl or "half-moon" swirls.

Also, if you hold the disc up to the light and can see thru the scratch....... it is garbage. The label side is much more important than the bottom side. The bottom can be repaired, the label can't. I have keeped my older Azuradisc machine. They make a newer model, but I like using the older version.

[wiggyx]

The first image is somewhat blurry, but that second image is not out of focus. I deliberately tried to get the reflection of the tree in that shot. If you are really interested in the surface detail of that game disc, look at the sections of that picture that show the window frame reflected in the disc. There is not a scratch or buff mark in that surface. If there was, it would show in the green tree foliage reflected in that disc. Notice the detail in the foliage of the tree and the crisp edges of the window frame reflected onto the shiny disc surface and tell me that picture is out of focus.

Well the reflection won't show imperfections as well as focusing on the disc itself. I'll take a couple of shots to show you what I mean...


Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing that it's nice and clean. I just wanted to explain why that isn't actually the best way to illustrate exactly how clean it is.

[Rev. Link]

I do disc cleanings all day long at my store, with a JFJ machine. If done properly, then yes, it comes out looking like a brand new disc (I know it's been said a lot in this thread, I'm just adding my support). I've taken games that literally looked like someone took steel wool to them and made them look like new.

And yes, as it's been said, PSX games have a tendency to show little swirls more than standard discs. You just need to give them a little extra care to get all that out. So really, all you guys that are so against this, you just need to find better people to do your resurfacing for you.

Our disc machine allows us to guarantee all our used disc games through the life of the game in the condition we sell them in, because we know that when they leave our store they do so without a scratch on them. We also have people come in all the time with games that they bought from other places (*cough*gamestop*) that don't work because they're all scratched up. We fix it for them, then they start buying all their games from us.

As for hurting the value of high-end collectibles, that's a touchy subject. Personally, I feel as long as a game works it shouldn't be resurfaced. A few light scratches are tolerable to me. But if it's got a lot of scratches, or doesn't work at all, then I would want it resurfaced. And from a retailer's point of view, it gets even harder. Like I said earlier, we guarantee our games through the life of the game. Which means if you buy a game from us and 4 months later, when you get toward the end, it starts freezing up on you in a certain spot, as long as it's in the same condition it was when you bought it and you still have your receipt we will fix it for you for free (or replace it, or exchange it, etc.). So when we see any kind of marks, even if they look minor, we usually will buff them out just to avoid that kind of situation. And we do sell a lot of collectible PSX stuff, both online and in the store, and no one has ever once complained about the disc looking like it had a bad resurfacing job done to it.

[Opti]

I have Game Haven by me do mine, and they always looks like the picture above. i bought a used PS2 game from them that didnt work, when I verified it was the disc and not the PS2 I took it back to them for a warranty and the guy said these scratches are your problem, and he resurfaced it. I was skeptical but it worked perfectly after that and still does.

I had a thrashed copy of FF7 and the guy told me he didnt know if it would help or not but he would try. He didnt charge me, because after he was done he didnt think they would work, but it did and Im still playing them.

[kedawa]

The only legitimate concern that people might have is that it effectively erases all(or most) evidence of abuse, so down the road you may find that what looked like a mint condition disc based on it's underside actually has structural or data damage.
Other than that, it's just an obsessive fixation.

[chrisballer]

The only legitimate concern that people might have is that it effectively erases all(or most) evidence of abuse, so down the road you may find that what looked like a mint condition disc based on it's underside actually has structural or data damage.
Other than that, it's just an obsessive fixation.

My thoughts as well. Although, I do not know how many layers are on the average disc and how much can come off before there is data damage. Maybe someone can school me?

[wiggyx]

The data layer on a single sided disc is right under the label sandwiched between the polycarbonate plastic disc that makes up about 90-95% of the mass of the disc and the thin layer of resin on top. The only way for that buffer to hit the data layer is to either load the disc upside-down, or leave the damn thing running for like 12 hours.

[chrisballer]

The data layer on a single sided disc is right under the label sandwiched between the polycarbonate plastic disc that makes up about 90-95% of the mass of the disc and the thin layer of resin on top. The only way for that buffer to hit the data layer is to either load the disc upside-down, or leave the damn thing running for like 12 hours.

That is what I thought, but I was not sure.

Thank you

[wiggyx]

No prob ;)

As an FYI, if it isn't obvious, it's REALLY easy to scratch them from the top. I always hold PS1 discs up to a light before buying to check for scratches :)

[RP2A03]

The data layer on a single sided disc is right under the label sandwiched between the polycarbonate plastic disc that makes up about 90-95% of the mass of the disc and the thin layer of resin on top. The only way for that buffer to hit the data layer is to either load the disc upside-down, or leave the damn thing running for like 12 hours.

Yes, but if you take away too much of the polycarbonate the laser might not be able to focus on the pits; or at the very least will have more problems with dust and scratches since the refraction index will be lowered and the data will be viewed from a more direct angle.

[wiggyx]

Yes, but if you take away too much of the polycarbonate the laser might not be able to focus on the pits; or at the very least will have more problems with dust and scratches since the refraction index will be lowered and the data will be viewed from a more direct angle.

I'm pretty sure you'd have to all but destroy the CD in order for that to be an issue.

[goatdan]

Yeah, the scratches on the top are really what you need to be worried about. That is what a lot of people tend to think is "disc rot" but it is really just "scratched topside of disc." The data layer sits VERY high in the disc, and a lot of people erroneously set them down upside down to "protect" them, which is far more likely to actually cause data loss than getting a minor scratch on the bottom.

There are most definitely some discs that are unrepairable, but whomever was making the argument it's like buying a car that was in an accident that got fixed is wrong. If the scratches are deep enough to break the disc, the disc is broken, and no amount of resurfacing or buffing will fix it.

The biggest thing is that you really need people who take pride in their disc buffing. I have a couple friends at a store that I frequent all the time who do my buffing as I mentioned, and I can take them discs that are beat to hell, and like I said before, I cannot figure out what ones are what once I put them all together. I have had literally hundreds of discs resurfaced by them, and I have never had one customer come back and complain that we sent them a resurfaced disc.

If you can tell it's been resurfaced, you just got someone that didn't have the skill for it that did it.