OK,most people don't like resurface discs but what about disc rot? real, fake, sucks!

[PROTOTYPE]

I have these tiny holes on Maybe 5 to 10 ps1 discs.The worst one is where it made the game disc skip was mega man legends 2 and its not a cheap game. Note: The game disc is flawless and I don't want to sell it to stick somebody else with it like it happen to me.How do you guys feel on Disc rot? selling them, buying them, believing it does not exists? :roll:

[Dangerboy]

Humor me. Pics of the PS1 games with light coming through them.

[wiggyx]

Disc/Laser rot is something of a misnomer. Delamination is the only real form of deterioration that you would need to be concerned about with PS1 discs. If delamination is the issue, then don't expect to observe it with the naked eye.

If you have another PS1 or PS2, then try the disc in another system first. Later gen games can sometimes cause issues in older models consoles. If not, try and pop it in your PC and burn a copy. If your computer successfully makes the dup, then it's probably not unreadable.

[sloan]

I've heard the term "disc rot" used and never understood its use. I have had a couple game discs (Dreamcast, Gamecube) over the years that there was a point in the data layer where light would shine through if held up to a lamp. What caused it, I don't know because I bought the games that way, unfortunately.

Somewhere, I have been told that writing on CD-R discs with a Sharpie marker is bad because supposedly the chemicals in the marker ink eat through the disc over a period of years. True or not, I do not know.

[Gameguy]

Somewhere, I have been told that writing on CD-R discs with a Sharpie marker is bad because supposedly the chemicals in the marker ink eat through the disc over a period of years. True or not, I do not know.
This is true, the solvents in some markers could eventually affect the dye layer. It's best to use markers specifically designed for CDs. I don't have any so I just leave discs unlabeled, I label the case they're stored in. Also don't use adhesive labels on discs as they can affect the balance of the disc.

What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that different types of discs are manufactured differently. CDs, DVDs, CD-Rs, and DVD-Rs are all made differently and have different layers. The discs can fail in different ways as they have different weaknesses. I have come across Sega CD and PC games that have pinholes in them, if the holes are past the data then the discs can still be playable. It could be caused by manufacturing problems or with poor storage, something has to penetrate the top coat/layer and cause the reflective layer to flake off or oxidize.

As for how I feel about disc rot, I avoid buying discs if I notice pinholes in them. I also tend to avoid discs if I notice them starting to discolour in the reflective layer, it could mean that the reflective layer is starting to oxidize and will become unreadable. I'd rather not risk it unless it's something really valuable.

[PROTOTYPE]

http://www.rfgeneration.com/news/Disc-Rot/An-important-note-to-Video-Game-Sellers-and-Buyers-1337.php This is how I've learn about it and my discs look like this too.Do I believe in it? some..

[kedawa]

This is true, the solvents in some markers could eventually affect the dye layer.
The solvents should have evaporated long before they could have caused any damage.

[djshok]

The solvents should have evaporated long before they could have caused any damage.

This. I'm glad someone said it. The solvents in most markers are alcohols which evaporate within seconds of writing.

[xelement5x]

The problem with disc rot is I'm not sure if it really is a manufacturing problem for all the cases I see, or sometimes just a poorly treated disc. I've got several games that look exactly like disc rot, except for the fact that I know about the lot they came from and those have just been terribly abused. Poor Saturn games :(

[Gameguy]

The solvents should have evaporated long before they could have caused any damage.

This. I'm glad someone said it. The solvents in most markers are alcohols which evaporate within seconds of writing.

http://www.tapeonline.com/articles/using-permanent-ink-markers-on-cds-dvds
http://superuser.com/questions/345337/is-it-safe-to-use-a-regular-marker-sharpie-etc-to-write-on-a-cd-r-disc

It depends on the marker, some contain xylene and toluene instead of just alcohol. While the solvents will evaporate quickly, they could potentially damage the outer coating once applied(within seconds) and the ink that stays behind could continue to eat through to the reflective layer over time, the ink is the stuff that stays on the disc that you can read.

Does this mean that all markers will damage a disc, of course not. It's like with handling computer hardware, you can handle and install parts without using anti-static equipment. It doesn't mean that the hardware will get damaged, there's just a higher chance that it could get damaged. It depends on the quality of the discs too, some top coatings are better than others. The markers designed for CD-Rs are water based so they're safer to use compared to other markers.

[goatdan]

"Disc Rot" is real, but the claims that some people make about it are way way overblown. The brief version of the reason for it is that the platter layer containing the data on a CD rots, and it causes an issue with the disc.

Honestly, real honest-to-goodness disc-rot is extremely, extremely, extremely rare.

That isn't to say that games don't get those pinholes in them, but that is actually a different problem. If you take out your discs and look at them, you'll notice that one side is screen printed. If the problem was disc-rot, the color of the hole should be the same as the color of the screenprint on the other side... but you'll notice that it almost never is. Instead, what you've got is a disc that at some point in it's life was mishandled -- maybe by you, maybe by the person that owned it before you, maybe at the factory. The side that is screenprinted is pretty fragile, and I believe the data is actually nearer the surface there. If you scratch it deep enough, you'll gouge the data layer right off.

A *lot* of people store discs upside down, so as to combat them from getting scratched, but a scratch on the other side of the disc can lead to the pinhole problem, and can definitely render a disc unplayable. Sometimes, it is hard to see that a little irregularity even occurred, as the screen printing combines right into it.

The problem with disc rot ultimately usually comes from air being sealed into that layer of the disc. This is not common for professionally printed CDs at all to get. My oldest CD is from 1986, when manufacturing was much crappier on them, and it still works fine. Does it exist? Yeah. It is overblown? Yeah -- because it is often misunderstood.

I don't know if that will help anyone, but I hope that it does :)

[PROTOTYPE]

yea, you maybe on to something there. I took one of the worst of my discs[ rare one] and look at it with the flashlight, there was 4 or 5 holes group together. Then I turn it over in the same spot on the printed side of the disc there was these very tiny scratch marks in the same place they were hard to see.This disc did skip a couple times in the game... So, if its a deep scratch on the printed side its wreck forever then? But won't get any worst which is good in a way? You know I've never look that hard on the printed side maybe that's why people are careless into thinking it won't hurt them?:roll:

[sloan]

Thanks for the explanation, goatdan. I, too, have been under the impression that the dot of light syndrome is, indeed, a particle of missing label from the screen printed side of the disc. In my own experience, some discs with dots of light showing through will operate fine, and others will not. Really depends on what part of the data layer was lost.

As for "rot", doesn't there have to be oxygen present for something to rot? With the data being sealed within plastic laminated layers, I just don't understand how there could be oxygen present to rot anything.

[dendawg]

As for "rot", doesn't there have to be oxygen present for something to rot? With the data being sealed within plastic laminated layers, I just don't understand how there could be oxygen present to rot anything.

True the data is sandwiched between layers of plastic, but the laser has to have something to reflect off of to be able to read the data. This is where the oxidation comes in, with the layer of foil on top rotting off. The foil could be protected with some kind of varnish, or not protected at all from oxidation.

[badinsults]

My copy of Grand Theft Auto IV for the Xbox 360 had pinhole problems, rendering the game unplayable. Sounds like they cheaped out on the manufacturing process. I'm angry because I paid $15 for it, and it doesn't work. :p

[Shulamana]

I have a Windows 98SE disc that has a black cloudy spot near the edge of the disc, it installs and works just fine so I'm not sure if this is true disc rot or some strange stain. I haven't encountered it on anything else, but I don't have any CD-ROMs older than the mid 90s, and I put every disc I might potentially buy up to a bright light source just to check.

[kedawa]

I've only gotten pinholes on CDRs, and I've yet to experience actual bit rot on anything other than tapes and floppies.

[BetaWolf47]

This sucks. Our carts will probably last much longer than any of our discs. I seriously hope that gaming switches to flash carts soon.

[wiggyx]

I have a Windows 98SE disc that has a black cloudy spot near the edge of the disc, it installs and works just fine so I'm not sure if this is true disc rot or some strange stain. I haven't encountered it on anything else, but I don't have any CD-ROMs older than the mid 90s, and I put every disc I might potentially buy up to a bright light source just to check.

It's de-laminating and oxidizing (rotting).

[goatdan]

Thanks for the explanation, goatdan. I, too, have been under the impression that the dot of light syndrome is, indeed, a particle of missing label from the screen printed side of the disc. In my own experience, some discs with dots of light showing through will operate fine, and others will not. Really depends on what part of the data layer was lost.

Discs read from the inside out, so the further out that the damage has occurred, the more likely you are that the damage doesn't affect anything. In a *lot* of cases, the data on a disc takes up surprisingly little space, so you can often have a disc that has the pinhole problem but it plays fine.


As for "rot", doesn't there have to be oxygen present for something to rot? With the data being sealed within plastic laminated layers, I just don't understand how there could be oxygen present to rot anything.

Well, the theory is that when the disc is produced, you are essentially sandwiching your data layer between two layers of plastic. On some discs, if you look at the edge you can even see the sandwich of the two platters. The idea is that at some point, oxygen will be able to get in between the layers which will lead to the metal oxidizing and rotting. I think though many people who thought this would be a big issue in the beginning didn't expect data discs to actually seal that layer very well, which they apparently do.

[Parodius Duh!]

How scratched up is the disc that has tiny holes on top of it? chances are the game wasnt taken care of, left out of its case, etc. If the game was kept minty fresh as soon as its opened, always returned to its case, not scratched at all, then that wouldnt be a problem.


Ive only ever experienced disc rot with CD-Rs, it happens quick with them, especially if you leave the cd in your car, changing elements, etc...always ruins CD-Rs, Ive even had marker eat through them before.

As for cold pressed discs, never seen any rot, yet.

[Gameguy]

Ive only ever experienced disc rot with CD-Rs, it happens quick with them, especially if you leave the cd in your car, changing elements, etc...always ruins CD-Rs, Ive even had marker eat through them before.
I've had that with DVD-RWs, right after taking them new from the spindle without ever using them before. It's a manufacturing problem, but it doesn't always seem to affect how well they work. These were with Verbatim discs which are literally the best quality discs you can buy.

Good to know about the marker being confirmed to cause damage, it's not just a myth.

[Parodius Duh!]

I've had that with DVD-RWs, right after taking them new from the spindle without ever using them before. It's a manufacturing problem, but it doesn't always seem to affect how well they work. These were with Verbatim discs which are literally the best quality discs you can buy.

Good to know about the marker being confirmed to cause damage, it's not just a myth.

Jeez, thats scary, I do a lot of burning, thankfully never with re-writables though as Ive heard some terror stories about data loss.

Anyway, Ill see if I can find one of the marker eaten CDRs and Ill post a pic, I know I saved one....Especially the blank white surface CD-R and DVD-Rs, the ink begins to rot and leak out leaving a brown ring around wherever the writing is...

[wiggyx]

I don't even get the point of re-writable discs at this point. Recordable media is beyond dirt cheap, and hard drives aren't exactly expensive. It made sense when discs still cost 5 or so bucks a pop.

[Gameguy]

Jeez, thats scary, I do a lot of burning, thankfully never with re-writables though as Ive heard some terror stories about data loss.

Anyway, Ill see if I can find one of the marker eaten CDRs and Ill post a pic, I know I saved one....Especially the blank white surface CD-R and DVD-Rs, the ink begins to rot and leak out leaving a brown ring around wherever the writing is...
If you can find the CD-Rs I'd like to see pics, it would be neat to see what it looks like.

I do have a CD-R from high school that I should check out again to see if it still works, I should really back up those files before the disc goes bad. It's not really a good company disc either but I was given it by a friend to back stuff up at school. There were only a few new computers that even had burners. This was before thumb drives started to take hold and it was the only way to save up all those files.


I don't even get the point of re-writable discs at this point. Recordable media is beyond dirt cheap, and hard drives aren't exactly expensive. It made sense when discs still cost 5 or so bucks a pop.
I use re-writables for stuff I don't want to keep long term, rather than burn a disc and just throw it out a few days later. I've been using the same three DVD-RWs for almost two years and they're still working fine. I bought a spindle of 30 discs and so far sold off 15 of them to help recoup some of the cost, I don't need many of them but that was the smallest size of Verbatim I could find reasonably priced. They're good for bringing media over to friends places for DVD players, I also went with DVD-RWs over DVD+RWs to ensure better compatibility in case I came across older players.

I did buy a spindle of Verbatim DVD-Rs too but I haven't used any yet, I just figured it would be better to buy them now in case the quality tanks in a few years like what happened with Sony discs. Verbatims aren't exactly that cheap, at least they're not as cheap in Canada compared to the US.

[wiggyx]

I prefer a jump drive or iPod for those sorts of situations personally. Plus, if I want to retrieve data from the place that I'm taking the jump drive/iPod, I can do so much more easily than having to re-write a disc, if that's even possible at my destination.