Screw-in RF connectors, the bane of my retro gaming existence

[Xian042]

Who thought these were a good idea? Never had one screw in and out easily, had to take three breaks unscrewing a TurboGrafx RF from around the TV. Such a hassle for something that really didn't need to be.

end of rant.

yay retrogaming!

[Collector_Gaming]

Who thought these were a good idea? Never had one screw in and out easily, had to take three breaks unscrewing a TurboGrafx RF from around the TV. Such a hassle for something that really didn't need to be.

end of rant.

yay retrogaming!

i wonder what the production costs were in putting these connectors in vs 3 or in the NES's case a 2 prong connector.

[treismac]

I love my TG-16 as well and hate the RF adapter as well. I need to pony up for either a Turbo Booster Plus or a Turbo Duo and join the A/V revolution that I keep hearing so much about. Seriously, why did the TG-16 and Genesis not come with A/V outs like the NES did? Do you happen to remember the TV adapter you needed to play the Atari 2600? Horrible. Absolutely horrible.

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, they're a pain, but I fortunately don't have many systems where I'm forced to use RF.

[Tupin]

They have those adapters that screw in once and then you can just plug the cable directly in. Makes me wonder why no one thought of them when the systems were new, but I bet most people didn't have several systems to connect at once.

[joshnickerson]

Who thought these were a good idea? Never had one screw in and out easily, had to take three breaks unscrewing a TurboGrafx RF from around the TV. Such a hassle for something that really didn't need to be.

Back then, they wanted to make sure you were SERIOUS about playing some damn games. If you're not willing to spend three hours just setting up the damn thing, then why even bother? Shyeah!

[wiggyx]

I actually preferred the threaded connectors. They never fell out or loosened over time. I never disconnected the my systems from the TV anyway when I was a kid and I never really needed to "quickly" remove an RF switch. I also don't recall having any difficulty installing or removing them either.

[InsaneDavid]

Considering that automatic RF switches are all the same (NES, Genesis, SMS, TG-16, etc.) you really only need to leave one connected for any family of systems that uses them. These days I only have my NES through RF (I don't care about the superiority of the composite on the side or this mod or that extra circuit, RF is how I played it forever and that's what I want to see when I play NES games) but if I need to use another auto RF based system, I just move the plug from the NES to the other.

Manual RF switch based systems (Atari 2600, 7800, Pong consoles, etc.) I use the tried and true method of an A/B box on my coaxial cable line and a phono to type-F converter. I leave the converter screwed into the A/B box and if I need to run a manual RF era system I just plug it in and flip the A/B box from the cable line to the system line. The Atari 2600 is usually plugged in to that one.

[Greg2600]

I love my TG-16 as well and hate the RF adapter as well. I need to pony up for either a Turbo Booster Plus or a Turbo Duo and join the A/V revolution that I keep hearing so much about. Seriously, why did the TG-16 and Genesis not come with A/V outs like the NES did? Do you happen to remember the TV adapter you needed to play the Atari 2600? Horrible. Absolutely horrible.

The Genesis has an A/V wire for itself, it's not stereo on the model 1.

http://atariace.com/images/atariace.com/atari/images/rca-coax-rf-adapter.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Xg0xgLS3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I have one of those RF adapters to coax. I was using an old RF cable from a Colecovision/7800, for the TG-16, to plug directly into that adapter. I recently got a Turbo Booster. To be honest, if your TG-16 RF connection is okay (some go bad), you won't notice much of a difference in video on a HDTV. Where the difference is major is in the sound. RF sound compared even to mono sound on any AV cable is so lousy.

[theclaw]

I love my TG-16 as well and hate the RF adapter as well. I need to pony up for either a Turbo Booster Plus or a Turbo Duo and join the A/V revolution that I keep hearing so much about. Seriously, why did the TG-16 and Genesis not come with A/V outs like the NES did? Do you happen to remember the TV adapter you needed to play the Atari 2600? Horrible. Absolutely horrible.

In a manner of speaking it's almost criminal to think about how bad corporate suits or uninformed users damage the artistic integrity of games.

Worse knowing the disabled true TG-16 video, is as world class as SNES Jr. Few people get to witness its peak aside from Wii VC versions on a component CRT.

[Greg2600]

In a manner of speaking it's almost criminal to think about how bad corporate suits or uninformed users damage the artistic integrity of games.

Worse knowing the disabled true TG-16 video, is as world class as SNES Jr. Few people get to witness its peak aside from Wii VC versions on a component CRT.

Nobody in North America at least had anything but SD/Analog TV's, making a need for anything but composite/S-Video pointless.

[theclaw]

True TV makers didn't help. I was just speaking from the view of a developer aware what would be done to their work.

[fergojisan]

The tiny RF to coax adapter mentioned above is the way to go. Just screw it in and switch out the systems. I imagine you could also use a system selector for this, but I don't know if it would degrade the quality or not. I did notice that the picture was much nicer than with one of the older switch boxes.

Before I discovered the adapter, I had all of my RF boxes piggybacked, there were 3 or 4 of them in a chain. It didn't look great but I had all the systems hooked up to my TV. I have gotten rid of a lot since then so I only need the RF for one system these days.

[Greg2600]

True TV makers didn't help. I was just speaking from the view of a developer aware what would be done to their work.

Well, move forward to the 3D polygon era. Many of the PS1/N64 games reveal glitches and texture mistakes using an emulator not seen in the original format. However, I agree they were coding the games on computers, which the public would never quite see that way.

[theclaw]

Yeah it's a mind boggle. So many ins and outs of games/systems we know today, not unveiled by the makers. But I digress. Best save anything else I'd say about it for another topic.

[kedawa]

I actually prefer screw-on connectors to push-on ones, but I do wish they would have used better nuts on the cables, instead of those awful hex nuts.
I have a handful of really easy to connect coax cables, one of which is a Sega Channel brand, and I keep them around specifically because of how easily the nuts thread onto the RF jack.

[BetaWolf47]

I didn't mind RF. The only thing I particularly disliked about it was the horrible placement of the RF inputs on TVs. On a Sony Trinitron I got in 1998, the RF input was placed at the very lower corner of the rear. There was no space to get leverage to twist the cable onto it. You either had to put up with that, or daisy chain RF inputs with successively worse noise.

[Leo_A]

Nobody in North America at least had anything but SD/Analog TV's, making a need for anything but composite/S-Video pointless.

Component video gives a definite boost in quality on an analog SD CRT. On some of my consoles I see a much greater boost going from S-Video to component than I do composite to S-Video.

[InsaneDavid]

I love my TG-16 as well and hate the RF adapter as well. I need to pony up for either a Turbo Booster Plus or a Turbo Duo and join the A/V revolution that I keep hearing so much about.

Tapping standard composite video and stereo sound from a TurboGrafx-16 or PCEngine isn't all that troublesome to be honest. I just did so on the $15 PCEngine I picked up last week.

http://www.classicplastic.net/digitalpress/PCEngineAVMod-2012-06-03-%2801%29.jpg

And yes, I do enjoy the F1 Circus games.

[ApolloBoy]

Tapping standard composite video and stereo sound from a TurboGrafx-16 or PCEngine isn't all that troublesome to be honest. I just did so on the $15 PCEngine I picked up last week.

http://www.classicplastic.net/digitalpress/PCEngineAVMod-2012-06-03-%2801%29.jpg

And yes, I do enjoy the F1 Circus games.
Getting S-video out of it is almost just as easy too, and it doesn't require a special video encoder board: http://tinyurl.com/6vdys3s

[theclaw]

Component video gives a definite boost in quality on an analog SD CRT. On some of my consoles I see a much greater boost going from S-Video to component than I do composite to S-Video.

I've always called s-video overrated. Sure easier to use and more commonly supported here in US. Except the apparent level of online obsession with it, is a narrow minded Americas-centric viewpoint. Other parts of the world have options like scart.

[jb143]

I know growing up all our TV's only had those "F" type connectors. When I was really young they had the screw on antenna types, but it wasn't until the late 90's that we even had one with composite input. Didn't have S-Video until I actively searched for a TV with it about 2003 or so. And yes, it was a pain in the...fingers having the screw those in from the back of the TV.

They could have made them where they push on instead of screw on but they would have been more susceptible to interference than they already were. Also, different connector designs have different impedance and bandwidth properties making different styles more suitable for some applications than others. The biggest reason they were used though is because they were lower cost than other options.

[kedawa]

I just wish we'd use BNC connectors for damn near everything.
Working with oscilloscopes and pro AV equipment has really spoiled me.

[wiggyx]

I've always called s-video overrated. Sure easier to use and more commonly supported here in US. Except the apparent level of online obsession with it, is a narrow minded Americas-centric viewpoint. Other parts of the world have options like scart.

Not having SCART as an option does not makes us "narrow-minded". We're "narrow-optioned".

[Greg2600]

S-Video has no noticeable difference vs. Composite while images are moving. Component is nice, but I'm not in the mood to mod all kinds of vintage systems.

[Leo_A]

S-Video has no noticeable difference vs. Composite while images are moving.

This has as much validity as your previous post in this thread does,

[Greg2600]

Oh come on, a component game system going into a composite or S-Video jack on an old CRT-SD-TV? Really? Spend who knows what modding an old Genesis to RGB so you can plug it into an old CRT?

[BetaWolf47]

Component video gives a definite boost in quality on an analog SD CRT. On some of my consoles I see a much greater boost going from S-Video to component than I do composite to S-Video.
Each step up is still very noticeable though, except in rare cases like the SNES Jr. in composite vs. SNES 1 in S-Video. Minus some minor jitter, 480i via component looks amazing on a CRT.

[Leo_A]

Oh come on, a component game system going into a composite or S-Video jack on an old CRT-SD-TV? Really? Spend who knows what modding an old Genesis to RGB so you can plug it into an old CRT?

While I've modded most of my classic consoles to eliminate RF (Just the O2 and Intellivision use it) and composite (Just my NES, my Coleco ADAM that I use for Colecovision gaming, and some plug and plays), what I'm saying has nothing to do with modding a console.

Most CRT's during the first decade of this century were manufactured with component inputs for a reason (Even many small budget sets included a set of component inputs). It gives a definite quality boost despite still being standard definition. I most certainly notice a huge boost in picture quality on my PS2, GCN, Xbox, Wii, and a old 360 I have hooked up to my standard definition Trinitron for the occasional classic game when using component cables. No midding involved and they're all consoles best enjoyed on a nice CRT rather than hooking them up to a modern DLP/Plasma/LCD HDTV (Except the 360, of course).

The benefits of component video don't start and end with being able to support progessive scan or even HD. They offer a noticeable boost in quality for similar reasons why an image will look nicer going from RF to composite cables. It's very much worthwhile when it's an option for standard definition consoles hooked up to a nice CRT.

[kedawa]

Threre's a much bigger jump in quality going from composite to s-video than there is going from s-video to component.
S-video and component use the exact same luma channel. Component produces better colour, but as far as image sharpness goes, they're the same.

[wiggyx]

Some folks don't seem to understand that it's not about resolution with these classic systems, but rather clarity and color. Nobody's trying to make their TurboGrafx put out a 1080P image or magically transform their SD CRT into something else.

[theclaw]

Oh come on, a component game system going into a composite or S-Video jack on an old CRT-SD-TV? Really? Spend who knows what modding an old Genesis to RGB so you can plug it into an old CRT?

That isn't necessary. There are direct view CRT TVs who accept native 240p component input. For these TVs you can use a basic external RGB to component transcoder circuit. With no upscaler involved. Nor modding in any form to the console, cables, and/or TV.

[Gameguy]

I'd rather stick with RF or composite outputs on my old systems to avoid ruining any transparency or dithering effects.

[o.pwuaioc]

I'd rather stick with RF or composite outputs on my old systems to avoid ruining any transparency or dithering effects.

There aren't very many games that make extensive use of this, though, are there? I know StarFox comes to mind. Still, though, when I get my TopLoader modded, I'll probably just stick with composite. It's plenty good enough for me.

[theclaw]

It's primarily found on Genesis due to limited color palette. Even then varies by title.

The majority of games benefit more from a sharper cleaner overall image, than reduced dithering on objects or effects. Using RF or composite means any graphics NOT dithered will suffer.
Most games didn't dither enough of the screen area for that wider quality loss to be worth it.

[o.pwuaioc]

Here too we ought to make a list of games that intentionally used dithering and where modding for s-video or component would screw up the image.

I'll start:

1. Star Fox

Composite

http://s235607088.onlinehome.us/whote/Stuff/composite1.jpg

S-video

http://s235607088.onlinehome.us/whote/Stuff/svideo1.jpg

[genesisguy]

Considering that automatic RF switches are all the same (NES, Genesis, SMS, TG-16, etc.) you really only need to leave one connected for any family of systems that uses them. These days I only have my NES through RF (I don't care about the superiority of the composite on the side or this mod or that extra circuit, RF is how I played it forever and that's what I want to see when I play NES games) but if I need to use another auto RF based system, I just move the plug from the NES to the other.


This is the coolest post I've read on ANY gaming related forum!

[Greg2600]

Okay guys, I would never argue that a newer system is not better via component than s-video or composite. I have an old XBOX, going from S-video to component doesn't make a big difference, but going from s-video on a CRT to component on an LCD HD sure does!

My position was related to older systems that didn't output more than S-video without modification. My point was that on either an old standard CRT, or a new HDTV, the difference between S-Video and Composite isn't noticeable. I have no problem if you want to spend the money to upgrade to component/RGB if the system could do it, but I do not see the difference. Once the game is moving, you will not notice. I've see the still image comparisons, and sure the S-video or component looks better, but when you play the game, you will not notice. I never do. Where you will notice is lesser quality audio, or a fuzzy connection brought on by RF, not to mention the lack of clarity on an SD TV vs. an HD TV, even for SD inputs.

[Xian042]

I switched to S-Video with the Gamecube and noticed an improvment in graphics quality when playing F-Zero. Not its not as drastic as SD to HD, but everything was brighter and lines were sharper. Also a lot easier to see text.

[wiggyx]

Here too we ought to make a list of games that intentionally used dithering and where modding for s-video or component would screw up the image.

I'll start:

1. Star Fox

Composite

http://s235607088.onlinehome.us/whote/Stuff/composite1.jpg

S-video
http://s235607088.onlinehome.us/whote/Stuff/svideo1.jpg

IMO, dithering is never a plus. I choose the sharper image over what amounts to intentional blurriness.

[kedawa]

Okay guys, I would never argue that a newer system is not better via component than s-video or composite. I have an old XBOX, going from S-video to component doesn't make a big difference, but going from s-video on a CRT to component on an LCD HD sure does!

My position was related to older systems that didn't output more than S-video without modification. My point was that on either an old standard CRT, or a new HDTV, the difference between S-Video and Composite isn't noticeable. I have no problem if you want to spend the money to upgrade to component/RGB if the system could do it, but I do not see the difference. Once the game is moving, you will not notice. I've see the still image comparisons, and sure the S-video or component looks better, but when you play the game, you will not notice. I never do. Where you will notice is lesser quality audio, or a fuzzy connection brought on by RF, not to mention the lack of clarity on an SD TV vs. an HD TV, even for SD inputs.

Just because you don't see the difference, that doesn't mean that others don't.
I sure as hell can.

[theclaw]

To some extent it's less noticeable in motion. Video interference can also be. I don't see those Master System / Genesis vertical RGB bars as much when moving, or depending on the graphics shown.

[Flam]

For all of back in the day that used the RF; what channel would you play on? I along with the majoirty of my friends always switched to Channel 3, however I had a few friends that used channel 4; I considered these people low brow and they contributed nothing to society. Did the first NES systems even have the option to connect componenets to the TV from the system, i always had to fiddle with the RF.

[Xian042]

I had a few friends that used channel 4; I considered these people low brow and they contributed nothing to society. .

HA!

I used channel 3 mostly because we couldn't get a TV signal on that channel, but channel 4 was a strong NBC signal.

[wiggyx]

For all of back in the day that used the RF; what channel would you play on? I along with the majoirty of my friends always switched to Channel 3, however I had a few friends that used channel 4; I considered these people low brow and they contributed nothing to society. Did the first NES systems even have the option to connect componenets to the TV from the system, i always had to fiddle with the RF.

They advised that you pick whichever didn't have strong signal strength in your area. For me, that meant using channel 4.

[kedawa]

For all of back in the day that used the RF; what channel would you play on? I along with the majoirty of my friends always switched to Channel 3, however I had a few friends that used channel 4; I considered these people low brow and they contributed nothing to society. Did the first NES systems even have the option to connect componenets to the TV from the system, i always had to fiddle with the RF.

Some of my old computers and consoles used 2/3 instead of 3/4, so I just used 3 for everything.

[BlastProcessing402]

Seriously, why did the TG-16 and Genesis not come with A/V outs like the NES did?

Well, in the TG's case, it was so you'd buy a Turbobooster, Turbobooster Plus, or TurboCD addon to get A/V outs. Similarly, why'd they only put a single controller port on the system? So you'd have to buy a Turbotap, even just to play with one other person. And don't get me started on the Turbopad's short cord, an extension was almost a necessity.

I was quite happy that the original PSX had actual A/V ports on it, though they took them off a revision or two in. Jerks. I hear the original Japanese model even had a built in S-Video port.

[wiggyx]

Well, in the TG's case, it was so you'd buy a Turbobooster, Turbobooster Plus, or TurboCD addon to get A/V outs. Similarly, why'd they only put a single controller port on the system? So you'd have to buy a Turbotap, even just to play with one other person. And don't get me started on the Turbopad's short cord, an extension was almost a necessity.

I was quite happy that the original PSX had actual A/V ports on it, though they took them off a revision or two in. Jerks. I hear the original Japanese model even had a built in S-Video port.

Man, I'd forgotten about the stupid single controller port. That was a seriously dumb idea.

[treismac]

Man, I'd forgotten about the stupid single controller port. That was a seriously dumb idea.

Tremendously dumb. Who knows what two controller ports, real 3rd party support, and a Bizzaro World version of Johnny Turbo could have done for the TG-16 in the 16-Bit Wars?

[wiggyx]

Tremendously dumb. Who knows what two controller ports, real 3rd party support, and a Bizzaro World version of Johnny Turbo could have done for the TG-16 in the 16-Bit Wars?

For realz.

I LOVED my TG16! Keith Courage was/is one of my fav pack-in games ever! Probably only 2nd to SMW. It was 2 years before I got a Turbo Tap, and a 2-player game to go along with it. Could've been a completely different scene had NEC managed to stay in the game. There were some seriously solid titles for that console that time, for the most part, has pretty much wiped from memory.