Trying to get the best video quality with my consoles (and other problems)

[theclaw]

Why do Gamecube component cables cost so much?

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_nkw=gamecube+component+cables&_sacat=0&_dmpt=Video_Games_Accessories&_odkw=PS2+component+cables&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

And I don't see any audio out on these.

They're expensive because only Nintendo made them, not giving the specs for third parties to use.
See... Gamecube outputs digital video and audio. Rather than component. Every component cable has an analog video encoder chip inside.

This left the port's audio officially unused, so you're supposed to use a composite/s-video cable for sound. (though an SPDIF mod has been found)

Nonetheless Nintendo's original plan didn't happen. Real digital A/V cable was never released.

[markusman64ds]

They're expensive because only Nintendo made them, not giving the specs for third parties to use.
See... Gamecube outputs digital video and audio. Rather than component. Every component cable has an analog video encoder chip inside.

This left the port's audio officially unused, so you're supposed to use a composite/s-video cable for sound. (though an SPDIF mod has been found)

Nonetheless Nintendo's original plan didn't happen. Real digital A/V cable was never released.

So would that mean I'm better off just using S-video? That's all my current Gamecube can do.

[markusman64ds]

With those converters I would only need component inputs, VGA and HDMI. I'm probably better off just using S-video for the Gamecube because the component cables are rare and I will be converting S-video to component anyway. I'm using DVI with a PC I have hooked up for games, and that will be converted to HDMI.

Before I get the converters however, I'm gonna get some PS2 component cables. Apparently playing PS1 games on PS2 through component cables will show if your TV can do 240p on component inputs. If I don't check first I could end up spending a lot of money on stuff that won't work on my TV.

If it doesn't work though, I'm gonna have to find another TV.

[markusman64ds]

Would this be a good alternative to the S-video to component converter?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-ADAPTER-RGB-Scart-Composite-RCA-S-Video-Audio-AV-TV-GOLD-PLATE-PINS-B22-/160816054051?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2571623f23

Since I'm getting the SCART to component anyway, this seems like a good alternative. Why pay $80 when you can pay $1?

[alec006]

Would this be a good alternative to the S-video to component converter?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-ADAPTER-RGB-Scart-Composite-RCA-S-Video-Audio-AV-TV-GOLD-PLATE-PINS-B22-/160816054051?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2571623f23

Since I'm getting the SCART to component anyway, this seems like a good alternative. Why pay $80 when you can pay $1?

That particular convertor only converts SCART to RCA jacks or vise versa. It does nothing for the video signal what so ever rather all it does is map the SCART pins to the correct jacks on the RCA side.

The SCART to Component converter actually has a video processor in it that takes only the RGB signal, not the luma chroma signals required for S-Video and/or composite and converts them to YUV component.

Also if your thinking about doing SCART to component on these consoles, you need a SCART switch with Audio out since most SCART to component converters don't output an audio signals.

However, SCART to HDMI converters do since the signal is sent down one digital cable.

[markusman64ds]

That particular convertor only converts SCART to RCA jacks or vise versa. It does nothing for the video signal what so ever rather all it does is map the SCART pins to the correct jacks on the RCA side.

The SCART to Component converter actually has a video processor in it that takes only the RGB signal, not the luma chroma signals required for S-Video and/or composite and converts them to YUV component.

Also if your thinking about doing SCART to component on these consoles, you need a SCART switch with Audio out since most SCART to component converters don't output an audio signals.

However, SCART to HDMI converters do since the signal is sent down one digital cable.

My TV has no S-video input so I was going to run it through the SCART converter. I was also planning to buy the audio switch.

I was just looking at SCART to HDMI converters on eBay. There is one here for about the same price as the other one in Shenzhen, USA:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Scart-HDMI-Converter-dm500s-720-1080P-output-/110696267429?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item19c602fea5

Of course, there is no Shenzhen, USA, so I'm gonna go with the SCART to component converter just to be safe. It will work better with my current setup.

[alec006]

My TV has no S-video input so I was going to run it through the SCART converter. I was also planning to buy the audio switch.

I was just looking at SCART to HDMI converters on eBay. There is one here for about the same price as the other one in Shenzhen, USA:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Scart-HDMI-Converter-dm500s-720-1080P-output-/110696267429?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item19c602fea5

Of course, there is no Shenzhen, USA, so I'm gonna go with the SCART to component converter just to be safe. It will work better with my current setup.

So your TV can accept low res component signals and your getting an audio switch that's good.

However, the SCART to component converter again only accepts the 4 signals. Red, Green, Blue & Composite Sync which is Luma. S-Video is Luma & Chroma, if your getting the CSY-2100 SCART to component converter, it only routes the composite sync luma signal not the chroma signal meaning if you try S-Video, you may get a black and white image or no image at all.

Again it's designed for RGB not S-Video.

[markusman64ds]

So your TV can accept low res component signals and your getting an audio switch that's good.

However, the SCART to component converter again only accepts the 4 signals. Red, Green, Blue & Composite Sync which is Luma. S-Video is Luma & Chroma, if your getting the CSY-2100 SCART to component converter, it only routes the composite sync luma signal not the chroma signal meaning if you try S-Video, you may get a black and white image or no image at all.

Again it's designed for RGB not S-Video.

I'm not sure if my TV can use low res on component, but over the next few days I'm gonna buy some PS3 component cables for PS2. Playing PS1 games on PS2 is a good way to check. Not sure what to do about S-Video now. If low res doesn't work I might try to get an older TV, and there is a chance it will have S-Video.

[alec006]

I'm not sure if my TV can use low res on component, but over the next few days I'm gonna buy some PS3 component cables for PS2. Playing PS1 games on PS2 is a good way to check. Not sure what to do about S-Video now. If low res doesn't work I might try to get an older TV, and there is a chance it will have S-Video.

Hmm that's interesting. If it can't then SCART to HDMI would be your second best choice being that it's easier for newer TV's being the audio video signal is in one cable and it upconverts it to a resolution the TV can display.

I know you wanna stick with S-Video since it is an easy option for a few consoles, trust me on a CRT S-Video is king over composite. On an HDTV it's hit and miss when it comes to classic consoles.

Component on a CRT and on an HDTV is even better, only problem is most classic video game consoles output such a low resolution (240p) that new TVs can't do a damn thing with.

Since most classic consoles are RGB which is the best possible analog signal, it's the best one to convert it to either component or HDMI. Remember RGB is 3 pure unencoded signals directly from the video processor, where's S-Video and Composite come from an encoder chip. The most you process a video signal the poorer the quality becomes.

What's really cool about RGB is the fact you start noticing things you've never seen before because the picture is so sharp. Like the small red, green and blue lights in the background on Chemical Plant Zone in Sonic 2. Shows the developers actually took the time to design a background that's a work of art.

Too bad the United States isn't like France where they required all video game consoles to have an RGB output. Also too bad we aren't like Europe and have a nice SCART RGB input, it would make it much easier without all these converters, encoders, wires, scanline generators etc.

Pretty much what it boils down to is, do you want the best signal possible out of these classic consoles? If so, it is an investment that will cost some money, but to most people it's well worth it to experience their favorite games with the absolute best picture on their modern TV.

[markusman64ds]

Hmm that's interesting. If it can't then SCART to HDMI would be your second best choice being that it's easier for newer TV's being the audio video signal is in one cable and it upconverts it to a resolution the TV can display.

I know you wanna stick with S-Video since it is an easy option for a few consoles, trust me on a CRT S-Video is king over composite. On an HDTV it's hit and miss when it comes to classic consoles.

Component on a CRT and on an HDTV is even better, only problem is most classic video game consoles output such a low resolution (240p) that new TVs can't do a damn thing with.

Since most classic consoles are RGB which is the best possible analog signal, it's the best one to convert it to either component or HDMI. Remember RGB is 3 pure unencoded signals directly from the video processor, where's S-Video and Composite come from an encoder chip. The most you process a video signal the poorer the quality becomes.

What's really cool about RGB is the fact you start noticing things you've never seen before because the picture is so sharp. Like the small red, green and blue lights in the background on Chemical Plant Zone in Sonic 2. Shows the developers actually took the time to design a background that's a work of art.

Too bad the United States isn't like France where they required all video game consoles to have an RGB output. Also too bad we aren't like Europe and have a nice SCART RGB input, it would make it much easier without all these converters, encoders, wires, scanline generators etc.

Pretty much what it boils down to is, do you want the best signal possible out of these classic consoles? If so, it is an investment that will cost some money, but to most people it's well worth it to experience their favorite games with the absolute best picture on their modern TV.

I'll probably get the SCART to HDMI. One question, do you have one of these and are able to test S-Video signals on it? Are they reliable? It's cheaper than the other converters, but thats probably because its made in Shenzhen USA aka China. I'm gonna buy some SCART cables first. I'm selling my complete copy of Fritz Chess on DS soon, and hoping to get $50 to pay for them. Also, considering that some of the best video quality is found in France, I should let people know I have French ancestors :)

Plenty of engrish on the eBay page, but the seller has great feedback. Would the fact that it says it's in the US but is actually in China cause any shipping problems?

[alec006]

I'll probably get the SCART to HDMI. One question, do you have one of these and are able to test S-Video signals on it? Are they reliable? It's cheaper than the other converters, but thats probably because its made in Shenzhen USA aka China. I'm gonna buy some SCART cables first. I'm selling my complete copy of Fritz Chess on DS soon, and hoping to get $50 to pay for them. Also, considering that some of the best video quality is found in France, I should let people know I have French ancestors :)

Plenty of engrish on the eBay page, but the seller has great feedback. Would the fact that it says it's in the US but is actually in China cause any shipping problems?

The two convertors I bought from China haven't crapped out on me yet. One is a SCART To YUV, and the other is SCART to HDMI. I'm actually saving up for a XRGB Framemeister since they are the best HDMI scalers out there, of course, hard to do with no job :confused:

I haven't tested composite or S-Video at all on it since I only have RGB SCART cables, it says it accepts composite but that may for a sync signal only.

[markusman64ds]

The two convertors I bought from China haven't crapped out on me yet. One is a SCART To YUV, and the other is SCART to HDMI. I'm actually saving up for a XRGB Framemeister since they are the best HDMI scalers out there, of course, hard to do with no job :confused:

I haven't tested composite or S-Video at all on it since I only have RGB SCART cables, it says it accepts composite but that may for a sync signal only.

If you would be willing to buy that composite/S-video to SCART I linked to earlier for testing, I would be willing to donate the $0 I currently have to you. I don't have a job either but thats because I'm still in school. I understand your situation somewhat.

Does the SCART to HDMI lag very much? Does it use European SCART? Finally, are you satisfied with the results?

[markusman64ds]

Here is another converter. This one has EVERYTHING.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Adapter-Converter-HDMI-YUV-VGA-SCART-All-Video-HDMI-Scaler-Switch-/350559105938?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519ef37392

But it's an expensive piece of hardware. If I get this I might not be able to get a Wii U for Christmas. SCART to HDMI seems to be the way to go.

[markusman64ds]

So your TV can accept low res component signals and your getting an audio switch that's good.

However, the SCART to component converter again only accepts the 4 signals. Red, Green, Blue & Composite Sync which is Luma. S-Video is Luma & Chroma, if your getting the CSY-2100 SCART to component converter, it only routes the composite sync luma signal not the chroma signal meaning if you try S-Video, you may get a black and white image or no image at all.

Again it's designed for RGB not S-Video.

I'm thinking about getting the SCART to component again now. It's cheaper and it's closer to here. Wouldn't the converter take the chroma signal and split it into the red and blue signals? It is a CVS287 SCART to component converter.

[alec006]

I'm thinking about getting the SCART to component again now. It's cheaper and it's closer to here. Wouldn't the converter take the chroma signal and split it into the red and blue signals? It is a CVS287 SCART to component converter.

Nope it only takes Red, Green, Blue & Sync. I've taken the thing apart, it only had leads for those 4 signals and nothing more.

[markusman64ds]

Nope it only takes Red, Green, Blue & Sync. I've taken the thing apart, it only had leads for those 4 signals and nothing more.

Is it possible to mod it to use S-Video?

[alec006]

Is it possible to mod it to use S-Video?

That wouldn't yield really good results. Think of it this way, when you plug RF into a VCR and output composite, does the image quality get any better? No because RF is modulated and poor quality to begin with.

When it comes to video signals, especially analog, you don't wanna go from a lesser quality analog signal to a better analog quality signal.

Best thing to do with S-Video, if you wanna use it, is get a professional scalier, like the XRGB or something like the DVDO EDGE and let it do the processing since it has actual video processors to keep the image as clear as it can be.

That particular converter only has resistors, capacitors and a few little chips that convert an RGB signal into a YUV component signal, which is what it's designed for, not S-Video.

To show in picture terms what this convertor is designed for, it takes the 3 signals on the left and produces the 3 signals on the right. The convertor CANNOT take the two (PbPr) signals on the right, which is chroma in S-Video, and seperate them out to YUV, it would degrade the video quality since in S-Video the PbPr signals are already combined by an internal video encoder.

And to make your head spin more, RGB to YUV is a arithmetic formula, meaning complicated math is enolved to convert an RGB signal into a YUV signal using the components in this converter.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m137/darkknux_2006/JST_rgb-yuv-tech.gif

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m137/darkknux_2006/RGBtoYUV.jpg

[markusman64ds]

I will probably get the SCART to HDMI then. To repeat my earlier questions:

Does the SCART to HDMI lag very much? Does it use European SCART? Finally, are you satisfied with the results?

[alec006]

I will probably get the SCART to HDMI then. To repeat my earlier questions:

Does the SCART to HDMI lag very much? Does it use European SCART? Finally, are you satisfied with the results?

Lag, haven't noticed any. Yes it's designed for European SCART and for a cheap HDMI converter, for most gamers, yea it will give satisfactory results on a modern TV since it's taking the best analog signal and converting it to a modern digital standard.

To me personally, I'm an audiovideophile, meaning I demand the best out of all my connections. SCART to HDMI is 2nd best to me, being that I like keep analog signals, analog. But to achieve the best, I have to spend alot more money, make more complicated obsolete connections and it becomes a huge mess.

Would I recommend it thou, of course, it's simple, its cheaper and it yields very good results, so yes I'm fine with it on my HDTV.

[markusman64ds]

Lag, haven't noticed any. Yes it's designed for European SCART and for a cheap HDMI converter, for most gamers, yea it will give satisfactory results on a modern TV since it's taking the best analog signal and converting it to a modern digital standard.

To me personally, I'm an audiovideophile, meaning I demand the best out of all my connections. SCART to HDMI is 2nd best to me, being that I like keep analog signals, analog. But to achieve the best, I have to spend alot more money, make more complicated obsolete connections and it becomes a huge mess.

Would I recommend it thou, of course, it's simple, its cheaper and it yields very good results, so yes I'm fine with it on my HDTV.

Genesis in 1080p man, with freakin STEREO.

Lol. So this is definately the converter I will get. Works great and is better than spending $500 on an XRGB-3. Good that it's cheap because I have 27 cents and a plastic nickel. Recycling will bring in some cash though.

If S-video doesn't work with that converter though, I think this is a good alternative.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/VGA-SVGA-S-VIDEO-3-RCA-TV-AV-Converter-Cable-Adapter-/230791499363?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item35bc3ece63

[theclaw]

Genesis in 1080p man, with freakin STEREO.

Lol. So this is definately the converter I will get. Works great and is better than spending $500 on an XRGB-3. Good that it's cheap because I have 27 cents and a plastic nickel. Recycling will bring in some cash though.

If S-video doesn't work with that converter though, I think this is a good alternative.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/VGA-SVGA-S-VIDEO-3-RCA-TV-AV-Converter-Cable-Adapter-/230791499363?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item35bc3ece63

How often is that useful? The description says it lets s-video be output from a VGA jack on some computers.

[markusman64ds]

How often is that useful? The description says it lets s-video be output from a VGA jack on some computers.

I guess I read it backwards. I meant to show an S-Video to VGA adapter, as my TV has a VGA input.

The HDMI converter has two settings, 720p and 1080p. My TV can do up to 1080i, so does that mean I can only use 720p? No big deal, considering most of these systems are 240p, but still.

[markusman64ds]

If I wanted to I could buy this, so I could have all systems on HDMI.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Component-video-YPbPr-VGA-HDMI-Converter-HDTV-XBOX-Game-WII-PS2-DVD-/310419231474?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item48466d92f2

[theclaw]

If I wanted to I could buy this, so I could have all systems on HDMI.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Component-video-YPbPr-VGA-HDMI-Converter-HDTV-XBOX-Game-WII-PS2-DVD-/310419231474?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item48466d92f2

Yeah just accepts component input only. For RGB systems you'd pair it with a component encoder.

[markusman64ds]

Yeah just accepts component input only. For RGB systems you'd pair it with a component encoder.

No, I would use this along with the SCART to HDMI. This one accepts component and VGA.

[markusman64ds]

Bought the SCART to HDMI and Composite/S-Video to SCART. Now to wait for them to arrive, from China.

[markusman64ds]

I think S-video would work with this converter. I don't think it can tell the difference between composite, S-video and RGB, as these are all analog signals, but it converts them anyway. Am I right?

[markusman64ds]

Am I right??

[markusman64ds]

SCART to HDMI arrived today. It's a lot smaller than I imagined. Everything powers on but I'll have to wait for the Composite to SCART because I don't have any SCART cables yet. Also the manual that came with it is the eBay description LOL

[markusman64ds]

Am I right??

I was right! Composite/S-Video to SCART arrived today. I tested the SCART to HDMI out with composite and S-Video and they both work great. There is barely any lag.

[wiggyx]

Any chance of some comparison shots between composite, S-Vid, and crazy HDMI setup?

[markusman64ds]

Any chance of some comparison shots between composite, S-Vid, and crazy HDMI setup?

My TV doesn't have S-Video, which is one of the reasons I got the converter.

I can say that composite looks ok on the converter (played some Robotron 64 and Mario Kart 64). Of course it's not gonna be XRGB quality on something like this. S-video looks good on it (tried the 3DO startup screen). RGB would look way better but I don't have any of those cables yet. Finally, using my VCR I got RF to Composite to SCART to HDMI and played Freeway in 1080p, which looks worse than composite but still ok.

[bugrouleau]

What TV are you using, quality will improve not just not just on the cords but the output device as well.

[markusman64ds]

What TV are you using, quality will improve not just not just on the cords but the output device as well.

1080i plasma by Samsung. Just checked again and composite is about the same as without the converter. The strange thing is that while S-Video works fine with 3DO, my Gamecube on S-Video only shows a black and white image. This is likely an issue with the cord, as it's one of those "works with everything except Dreamcast" video cables.

[markusman64ds]

Are there any NTSC VHS players with SCART input and output? They would go well with my setup.

[ApolloBoy]

Are there any NTSC VHS players with SCART input and output? They would go well with my setup.
I don't think so, and it's not like you'll get any quality jump over composite that way. The best video quality you'll get out of VHS is composite video unless you have an S-VHS VCR which uses S-video.

[markusman64ds]

I've seen some VHS/DVD combo players that I think have component output. Would that be for just the DVD side or both sides?

[alec006]

I've seen some VHS/DVD combo players that I think have component output. Would that be for just the DVD side or both sides?

That's only for the DVD side, the only VHS players that I know have component outputs are a few broadcast decks and DVHS machines which are becoming more rare and expensive. There was a weird VHS Blu-Ray combo deck that Panasonic put out a few years ago that had HDMI out for both sides, but it's way over priced now days. When it comes to VHS, S-VHS decks are the best and cheapest route to go since VHS has a low resolution to begin with.

[Gameguy]

When it comes to VHS, S-VHS decks are the best and cheapest route to go since VHS has a low resolution to begin with.
Specifically S-VHS decks with a TBC/DNR circuit. Not all S-VHS decks have these features, but these are what make S-VHS decks so desirable for normal VHS tapes. If you're going to bother with a really good VCR to play back tapes you might as well get a good one, otherwise you might as well just stick with a regular deck.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-playback-hardware.htm