Emulators (Hear me out)

[Illuvatar]

Alright, so i don't know what it is, but say i really want to play a nes game, its like i would love to get into playing it on my computer, but for some reason i just can't play a rom, its like this fked up phobia i have were i have to have the cartridge. Idk...it just feels like i am almost cheating the game, and not playing legit at all. Anyone else feel this way? can anyone convince me its fine, or motivate me to using a emulator i need some insight or someone who agrees with my views lol. I feel like i am the only one with this problem, because seems everyone uses emulators.

Heck when i got ff orgins for ps3, i felt like i was almost cheating in a way, now im on a mission to get the nes game, it just feels fake lol man i am messed up.

[SpaceHarrier]

Well if you are a purist, then it is certainly alright to be as such..

I play roms, but feel guilty if I don't own the original when I'm really enjoying it. So often that game will get added to my want list. I like to support the hobby. I don't really worry that because I'm using an Xbox controller to play Mega Man that I'm not legit though, that's just more hardcore than I care to be.

[Guyra]

Getting a NES controller for the PC would probably make it a bit better, at least. It'd feel more like playing the "real thing". :)

[Edmond Dantes]

I don't hate emulators, but I avoid them because for me, it always becomes about downloading roms. Not even playing... just downloading. and downloading some more... and soon what happens, I have forty more games I "want" to play but that I'll forget I have or never get around to. It gets funny sometimes, like when someone tells me to play some game and I break my back trying to get it, only to realize I had the ROM the whole time.

Another thing is that it makes me feel guilty. It's like for example, I have only like ten games for my TG16, so of course I barely ever play it. But then if I play a ROM, its like "why do I even have this thing?" or else "I'm just giving the real console another reason to sit and collect dust." I don't like that. If I own the hardware, I want to effing use it and there'll always be a guilt factor if I don't. This goes for ports and remakes too (and a ROM is, for all intents and purposes, a port). Like I sold my GBA phantasy star trilogy in favor of Genesis originals in a time where I barely ever used my Genesis, just for that very reason.

That being said, if its a game like Mother 3 or something, I won't mind playing it on a computer since there's no way I can play it legit anyway (without learning Japanese, which sadly doesn't seem to be happening).

[genesisguy]

Well there is something to be said about owning a physical copy and loading it up on an original NES right? If there wasn't none of these retro forums and gaming expos would be so popular.
I keep hearing emulating is getting better and closer to the real thing. That may be so, but as someone who grew up with an NES, sitting infront of my laptop with a controller and playing NES roms will never replace the real thing. As long as I've got a working NES and a CRT TV I'll continue to play retro games that way.

[Crystalian]

Sometimes I feel like what you're saying, but for different reasons. Here are my pro's and con's on the issue.

1. I have 2, count 'em TWO complete copies of Terranigma. I have a region free U.S. SNES. I have a PAL SNES. I have a 110 to 220 power converter. I have a NTSC to PAL video signal converter. I have an rf modulator. I have composite cables. I have component cables. I have a standard def tv. I have a high def lcd tv. I have a hi def led tv. The only thing I do NOT have is a PAL tv from the freaking UK. I am still unable to play it on any "legit" setup I own, in any combination of components that you can think of. I have done my part and then some to play that game "authentically", and I am DONE. One ROM later and I can finally SEE the game that has come through distorted all this time. SO, point number ONE is: There is a breaking point for anyone who tries to play games the "right" way, and only you will know when you get to that point. I'm NOT buying a PAL TV for one game. I don't know if there is such a thing as a SNES to VGA cable (not a converter box), and if it would work if there is. But at this point I don't care anymore...

2. I freaking rock at games like the Legend of Zelda, Crystalis (see name), Battletoads, Tetris, etc. Games where you need a tight, instantaneously responsive controller that test your skill and timing to the max. Then I play Zelda on the Wii virtual console, and I suck... WHAT, no way. I turn on the PC and play Zelda with a Xbox 360 controller, and I suck again. Nooooo! Back to the Nes, and now I'm plowing through Keeses and Wizrobes and Darknuts oh my like it's nobody's business. And don't get me started on how I can't even finish level one of Raiden on a PS1 or emulator, but I'll destroy it on a TG-16. This is point number TWO: some games are not fun or are seriously compromised ports when emulated. I will eventually get a retrousb adapter for an nes controller so that every random Octorok or Stalfos in the damn game doesn't have a 90% chance of killing me. That's just not even funny.

3. Now I'm going to play devil's advocate for one reason; convenience. That's it. I have an r4 in my ds lite that is loaded with probably 10 duffel bag's worth of NES, SNES, Turbografx, and Genesis games. It fits in my glove box. Any time i take a trip, i can have a substantial portion of my collection available to play with a single push up on the power slider on the side of my ds lite. I can be dominating on Killer Instinct in the time it would take to grab a system out of the car, hook it up at a friend's house, fish through a duffel bag for the right cartridge, blow on it (hahaha), and turn it on.

4. Lastly, I'm never going to spend $2000 on a single game EVER. I don't care if it's a complete US Magical Chase, a Gold NWC NES cart, a sealed Stadium Events, or even six-player X-men arcade cabinet. It's never going to happen. BUT, i can download Magical Chase legally on the Wii virtual console, the Simpsons arcade game on PSN, etc. So, if it's about the legal gray area, some games have more modern legal ways to download them that don't resort to virtual piracy (Arrrrr). If the ethics aren't an issue, well, you can have the cheapest ( read: free) complete collection of videogames in the world. You just have nothing physical to show for it, but you can get almost all the enjoyment out of the games without buying a physical copy. And by almost, I of course mean that you can't download a booby mousepad when you decide to steal an ISO of Record of the Agarest War, LOL.

I hope this helps put it in perspective. In a lot of ways, I do feel like you do about emulation. I am also a realist. If I have 500 video games spread out across multiple systems and I'm taking a vacation, ROMs on an r4 will definitely tide me over until I can play the real thing again. And my copies of Terranigma get to stay mint while I enjoy the heck out of playing a virtual copy in high definition. It's a win-win situation for me. I hope it makes you feel better, takes the edge off, puts it in a different perspective, or whatever. At the end of the day, it's a personal choice, and you're not wrong whichever way you decide to stand on the issue.

[kedawa]

I don't emulate games for systems that aren't well emulated, but personally, I'd just as soon play a game on my PC with my favourite arcade stick and crystal clear visuals than deal with flickering sprites, blurry video, and funky old gamepads.
Either way is fine, but the convenience and consistency of emulation is just impossible to beat.

[PantherUK]

The main reason I use emulators is down to space... While it would be nice to have a room with everything set up, for me it's not realistic... SNES/Super Famicom, Megadrive/Genesis, Commodore 64 etc are emulated so well now it makes sense for me to use them...

[123►Genei-Jin]

I'm not a completionist, so I use emulators all the time to playtest games I'm interested in. I rarely base a purchase on reviews alone.
I also dislike gamepads, so I rather emulate games and use an arcade stick. Granted, I now own an arcade stick for almost every console I own except Master System, Famicom and NES or at least have a converter.

[Gunstar Hero]

I think we can all agree a cartridge will always be better than a rom. I know how you feel and if you really enjoy a game I believe it's worth it to buy the real thing; you will just be more satisfied in the end. That is a strange kind of obsession you have that I happen to share. Maybe it's because I'm a perfectionist, or maybe because I just like owning physical copies of all my games.

[fluid_matrix]

While I'm more of a collector than anything, I actually prefer to play them on my laptop because of the portability.

[treismac]

Well there is something to be said about owning a physical copy and loading it up on an original NES right? If there wasn't none of these retro forums and gaming expos would be so popular.

Amen and amen.

While I do like playing video games on emulation, I love playing on the actual hardware. Even with a classic NES controller in my hand courtesy of a usb converter, playing on a computer does not "emulate" my childhood experience of sitting in front of a tube screen with a stack of Nintendo games sprawled out before me. Nor does clicking and dragging a rom file into an emulator icon have the same umph as sliding a cartridge into a NES, pressing the power button, and watching the red led light fire up at the same time as the game on the television screen. To call this "magical" might well be cliche but it is the damn truth. I felt it as a child; I feel it still.

With all of this said, there are a few reasons I use a emulators to play roms:

1) Taking a game for a test drive before I purchase it with a rom just makes sense.

2) Since I can't read Japanese, fan translated roms are my only way to play (and understand) these games.

3) Mario hacks like the Super Mario Bros. Special conversion and Giabbit Hunting are slices of Heaven. God, I love 'em.

4) Save states. I don't have 28 consecutive hours to play Adventure Island to beat the game. Just the same, my hat goes off to Urakawa of Game Center CX.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAJ_g5r1izU&feature=player_detailpage#t=3197s

Go to 53:12 for the pain.

5) Sometimes I enjoy using the game genie without my 72 pin connector getting bent out of shape.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

:):):)

[j_factor]

I don't like using emulators myself. It just doesn't "feel" right and I can't really get into the game. But I do download ROMs on occasion. Usually just to test out a game to see if I want to buy it.


1. I have 2, count 'em TWO complete copies of Terranigma. I have a region free U.S. SNES. I have a PAL SNES. I have a 110 to 220 power converter. I have a NTSC to PAL video signal converter. I have an rf modulator. I have composite cables. I have component cables. I have a standard def tv. I have a high def lcd tv. I have a hi def led tv. The only thing I do NOT have is a PAL tv from the freaking UK. I am still unable to play it on any "legit" setup I own, in any combination of components that you can think of. I have done my part and then some to play that game "authentically", and I am DONE. One ROM later and I can finally SEE the game that has come through distorted all this time. SO, point number ONE is: There is a breaking point for anyone who tries to play games the "right" way, and only you will know when you get to that point. I'm NOT buying a PAL TV for one game. I don't know if there is such a thing as a SNES to VGA cable (not a converter box), and if it would work if there is. But at this point I don't care anymore...

I don't know why you're having such a hard time. You don't need a PAL TV to play a game from Europe. I've never played a PAL territory SNES game, but I have for other systems without much difficulty. You shouldn't need a PAL system either, in fact that makes it more complicated.

[Parodius Duh!]

I feel ya homey, I need the carts and whatever converters, hook ups, and proper televisions that need be to play the games I wanna play. Screw emulation, get real with ur shit!!!!!

[fluid_matrix]

4) Save states. I don't have 28 consecutive hours to play Adventure Island to beat the game. Just the same, my hates go off to Urakawa of Game Center CX.
Never got around to playing that game. Is is truly that difficult?

[Greg2600]

If it weren't for flash carts like PowerPak, Everdrive, Harmony, Atarimax, I would just play most of the games on an emulator. I use emulators if there's something quick I want to check out.

However, I tend to play PS1 and N64 games a lot on them, because the 3D can be graphically enhanced. I'm also intrigued by the advances programmers are making on emu's for systems like PS2, Xbox, and of course arcade systems.

[Robocop2]

I certainly understand the sentiment and to a point I agree. Original hardware does have a certain appeal that emulation simply cannot duplicate for obvious reasons. That having been said the convenience and advances that emulation provides is a fair trade off for the nostalgia factor.

[o.pwuaioc]

4) Save states. I don't have 28 consecutive hours to play Adventure Island to beat the game. Just the same, my hates go off to Urakawa of Game Center CX.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAJ_g5r1izU&feature=player_detailpage#t=3197s

Go to 53:12 for the pain.

That's why I much prefer unlimited continues a la Ninja Gaiden to Game Over, you lose, start from 1-1. Still, I think the triumph of finally beating a game like Adventure Island makes the effort worth it. If you have save states, it cheapens it a bit, especially if you use it too often. That's one of the many reasons why I switched from emulators to serious collecting.

[Edmond Dantes]

Besides that, save states cramp your gaming skills and can influence way too many destructive mentalities. You get to a point where you have to save every time you take a step to the left, even if you actually did nothing of consequence...

Take it from a recovering savestate-aholic.

[treismac]

Never got around to playing that game [Adventure Island]. Is is truly that difficult?

Yes- a thousand times over "yes." Watch 53:12 on in the video I posted and you'll see. The later levels require such intense, zero margin for the slightest bit off from anything other than PERFECT timing and intricate memorization of merciless patterns that the game becomes way more difficult than fun towards the end. 7-4 is as far as I've made it on the actual hardware in the course of 6 or so hours, taking frequent breaks to keep from losing my mind. Despite this, the game is really, really fun, and I recommend it highly to anyone who loves platformers. It's just damn tough game in later levels.

[Sparkster]

I think most of the best reasons for playing on emulators has been mentioned above.

- Translated games
- Portability (it's great playing Dragon Quest V translated ANYWHERE)
- Time - I don't have the time for all 128 levels of Rampage for the NES

But the one that I like best for emulation is cheating. There are some games out there (especially for the NES) that are so damn difficult that you are either racking your brain to finish, or just so hard you eventually give up. My favourite emulators allow for hex editing where I've done some truly disgusting super-cheats, and they can be turned on and off as needed, unlike a game genie.

- Permanent star-man in the Mario games
- One-shot kills in the Mega Man series
- Ridiculously over-levelled characters in RPGs
- Start on the final level
- Infinite lives
- Infinite health
- Change the timer and the score in sports games, and win any game, even if you are dominated in every possible way

And for good measure, using these cheats, I have gotten a 7 second 1st round TKO on Mike Tyson. You may think that it doesn't sound very satisfying, but it is. It truly, truly feels satisfying to knock him out with a single punch, much in the way he did to us so many times.

[Gameguy]

1. I have 2, count 'em TWO complete copies of Terranigma. I have a region free U.S. SNES. I have a PAL SNES. I have a 110 to 220 power converter. I have a NTSC to PAL video signal converter. I have an rf modulator. I have composite cables. I have component cables. I have a standard def tv. I have a high def lcd tv. I have a hi def led tv. The only thing I do NOT have is a PAL tv from the freaking UK. I am still unable to play it on any "legit" setup I own, in any combination of components that you can think of. I have done my part and then some to play that game "authentically", and I am DONE. One ROM later and I can finally SEE the game that has come through distorted all this time. SO, point number ONE is: There is a breaking point for anyone who tries to play games the "right" way, and only you will know when you get to that point. I'm NOT buying a PAL TV for one game. I don't know if there is such a thing as a SNES to VGA cable (not a converter box), and if it would work if there is. But at this point I don't care anymore...
Shouldn't you be using a PAL to NTSC converter? Even so it depends on which converter you're using, cheap ones convert 50Hz PAL to 50Hz NTSC. North American TVs are only 60Hz NTSC so 50Hz NTSC still won't work. There's a cheap converter on Amazon that's like this so I thought I'd point it out, I saw the same convterter at a thrift for $5 and passed on it as it's useless in North America.

This is the one to avoid;
http://www.amazon.com/Video-System-Converter-NTSC-Systems/dp/B000RN2292

[Razo00]

I use roms as a way of testing out games before buying them. If I play a rom and really like the game, I'll buy it. Do I own every single game that I really like? No. Will I own most games I really like some day? Maybe. I rather play my old school games on original hardware.

[Crystalian]

Shouldn't you be using a PAL to NTSC converter? Even so it depends on which converter you're using, cheap ones convert 50Hz PAL to 50Hz NTSC. North American TVs are only 60Hz NTSC so 50Hz NTSC still won't work. There's a cheap converter on Amazon that's like this so I thought I'd point it out, I saw the same convterter at a thrift for $5 and passed on it as it's useless in North America.

This is the one to avoid;
http://www.amazon.com/Video-System-Converter-NTSC-Systems/dp/B000RN2292

That is actually the converter I have. Without it, you get a constant scanning of the image from the bottom of the screen all the way to the top. It is so rapid you cannot make anything out, and it comes through in black and white to boot! With the converter, I get like halfway between color and B&W. It also prevents the image flipping out, but it is in no way CLEAR. Lastly, the top 15% of the screen actually displays the bottom 15% of the image. So, if my character walks to the bottom of the screen to walk out of a door, his feet and the door will display on the top of the screen. I refuse to play through a game having to deal with that crap. My NTSC SNES has the voltage sensing pin on one of the chips de-soldered and raised so that it never fails the PAL region-check. It also has the restrictor tabs removed from the inside of the cartridge slot so that any SNES cart can be inserted effortlessly. With these two mods, there are only like three SNES games in the world that you can't play with 100% compatibility. Terranigma just happens to be one of those games. It has a 60hz check built into the cart itself. Maybe one of these days I'll actually do the 60hz switch mod to my system, but as I said, at this point I have tapped out. It's been at least two years since I messed with trying to get it to display properly, and I am as mentally spent with one game as I am probably going to allow myself to be. With an emulator, I don't have to deal with that frustration anymore. It's crystal clear and easy as pie. Thank you for the heads up on my video signal converter being junk though... I might not need a PAL tv after all, LOL...

[Illuvatar]

Well you see its like i WANT to play a emulator, i try to but i just feel like i am doing something wrong, and it makes me uncomfortable, because the game feels boring and i just feel like i am cheating. When i do test games on a emulator i save within the game, even though i could use savestate, if did that...i swear i feel like i can't play the game anymore and have to start over, because i don't feel accomplished.

As hard as i try to enjoy emulators i just don't understand my problem... i may get a usb nes controller, and just save within game and give it a shot, but it wont feel right, the only time it does if its a game that was never released in america, like final fantasy III for the nes, and can only be translated to English by fans, i found the rom the other day, and its just about the only way i could play a emulator because if you get what i mean it is kind of considered legit.

So when i got FF orgins for psn...i swear i like the game, but hell i feel like i am even cheating by playing it...though i payed cash, i had to set all the settings to orgininal so it is close to nes as it can be, i dont even use the quick switch in menus, or the memo file (were you can save so if you die you restart were u saved, only shorterm while game is on its not a real save) I can not use those if i do i have to start over because i think its cheating, though it is a feature of the game.

Man i really am fucked up..and i hate it.

[The Dord]

Getting a NES controller for the PC would probably make it a bit better, at least. It'd feel more like playing the "real thing". :)
Get a USB adaptor for a SNES and genesis controller and you're good to go :king:

[o.pwuaioc]

Get a USB adaptor for a SNES and genesis controller and you're good to go :king:

Genesis ones are difficult to find cheap (unless things have changed - I haven't bothered to look in about a year), although if you know how, they're easy to make yourself since it's not a proprietary cord. I ended up using the SNES one for all three systems, since the SNES controller has 6 buttons as well.

[Mr Mort]

I used to be dead-set againt roms and eumualtors, but as I've aged, I've changed my tune.

I have a working NES, SNES, Genesis, etc, but they're all in a glass display case. I simply don't have the space to have them all hooked up to the same tube TV. It's much more convenient for me to take the roms to all the games I own, and put them on an Xbox. I have that Xbox hooked up to a tube TV to replicate the feeling of playing on the actual hardware as close as possible, with no video filters or enhancements, etc, tho I do agree that save states can be useful, but I don't try to use them as a crutch when I die in a game.

I mostly only have roms to the games I own, so I don't feel any real guilt about playing them on an emulator. As others have mentioned, if there's an old game I'm thinking about picking up, I try out the rom first to make sure I do want to buy the actual cartridge. It's a win-win scenario for me.

As far as emulation itself goes, I do agree that most emulators are off, but there are some that are damn near perfect. I prefer the emulators on the Xbox, because they were designed with one universal hardware configuration in mind. All Xboxes have the same processor, GPU, ram (unless upgraded), etc. Of all the emulators I've ever tried, no PC emulator has ever been as close to the real hardware as the Xbox ones are IMHO.

It's all a matter of context. Some people just recklessly download hundreds of roms without owning any of the actual hardware or cartridges, and they maybe play a bunch of them for only a few minutes, and don't get much out of the whole experience. Others, such as collectors like us, use them to facilitate actually enjoying the games they legitimately own, helping bring back memories and invoke feelings of nostalgia and appreciation, and that my friends, is a good thing.

[treismac]

And for good measure, using these cheats, I have gotten a 7 second 1st round TKO on Mike Tyson. You may think that it doesn't sound very satisfying, but it is. It truly, truly feels satisfying to knock him out with a single punch, much in the way he did to us so many times.

God bless you!!! I bet it is satisfying to get revenge after all of these years on Iron Mike and give him a taste of his own medicine. ;)

[NayusDante]

As much as I'd love to play all those obscure translated JRPGs, the idea of piracy doesn't sit well with me. I'd rather spend a little on the games I reallywant and have time to play. Aside from said obscure exceptions, there's usually some way of legally obtaining a given game.

I see guys mounting ITX PCs in NES shells and putting a complete romset on them, but somehow I find it disgusting. At that point, I think you're just downloading roms for the sake of downloading roms. Kleptomania and hoarding are serious problems, not something to brag to the Internet about.

[Sabz5150]

Emulators are good for checking out a game or testing a program. Actually playing a game, its console all the way for me.

Coke from a glass bottle just tastes better.