Retro game store Up-pricing right in front of a customer, opinions?

[ifkz]

First, a little background. I am a long-time Sega CD collector and own all of the hardware variations. I have been collecting Sega CD games for more than ten years now, mostly keeping things local and helping support local shops and thrift stores. I've bought them when no one else wanted them, and I bought copies that should have been left alone just as placeholders. Here is what happened to me today:

I go into a local retro game store, their prices are overall high, but some good deals can be had if I look hard enough. Behind the counter are two games that I've searched for, ten years of searching: Popful Mail ($50) and Snatcher ($100). Just as I express interest in them, the sales lady starts marking them up after an e-bay search. They're now $100 and $200, respectively. I'm not happy, I tell them I would gladly pay them the original $150 for both. Sorry, no luck for me. "Well I've crushed one person's dreams, I'm done for the day" says the sales lady. I get out of the store at that point and go on my way (and continue my decade long quest to find a reasonably priced copy of both games). Sigh.

I'm going to boycott them, period.

Thoughts from the DP crew? All are welcome. Should I be so mad, or perhaps the store was just acting in their best interests?

[Trebuken]

I have had this happen. They look up the ebay price while you are standing there. They should have been priced the higher prices from the get go. It is often tough to find rare games locally because these game stores sell the more valuable games online. I think game stores that also have ebay-stores should be very open about it so that you can use both.

They probably could not have afforded the loss on these games at the original prices (who knows what they paid for them?). They should have known the value of the games from the get go, it's what they do.

Just sounds like a poorly run place...unfortunately it's not unusual in the retro-game store business.

[Damaniel]

There's a store in my area that I avoided for years due to this behavior. Anything even slightly rare didn't have a price tag - they'd go look it up on eBay and sell it to you for whatever it was currently going for. It was a huge shame, too - they had *by far* the best selection of rare stuff of any of my local stores. Hell, they even did this at our local retro gaming convention -- they'd bring a laptop and do price lookups right on the show floor.

Recently, they've moderated this behavior somewhat - I stopped in a few months ago and everything seems to have a price now, and most of those prices are even reasonable. I actually managed to pick up a complete copy of E.V.O. for $70. However, I've chosen to boycott them again for an unrelated reason (knowingly selling a counterfeit Pokemon cartridge to my girlfriend).

In short, I'd refuse to do business with a store that won't tell you what something costs up front. Even if the prices are on the high side, I expect to know what I'm going to have to pay *before* I get up to the counter.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

While I understand re-pricing merchandise in-line with current market value, I'd never EVER consider doing it if the game is on the shelf, with a marked price and a customer is there asking to buy it.

I mean, if an item was marked with a price that was connected to the wrong inventory/item UPC code and the sales clerk caught it right before the sale, that would be understandable.

What you described, including the comment from the salesperson - that's an exceptionally tactless move.

I'd ask if there is some type of law that protects consumers from a practice like this, but even if there is, I'm sure it's one of those things that is broadly interpreted, isn't really actionable and never actually works in the favor of the consumer.

[ifkz]

Thanks for the kind replies. I even sent a 'bad customer service' e-mail to their web presence detailing things. For all I know this was either the store owner or an owner of the chain. I don't expect it to go anywhere, but I do feel better (and requested to be dropped from their e-mail distribution list).

[Duke.Togo]

The only reason I visit stores is due to good customer service, and it sounds like this place hasn't got that figured out.

I would tell them that if they want eBay prices, they should sell on eBay; and if I want to pay eBay prices, I'll do so at home in my pajamas and won't waste the time and gas on the drive to their store.

[Sparkster]

It was a long time ago, but that practice was (maybe still is?) illegal here in Canada. The sticker price is the sticker price.

That's absolute garbage that they would change it on you... especially double when you're standing right in front of them.

[wiggyx]

Wait, she re-priced them right in front of you?! I would have made a huge scene and an ass of myself as a result. That's an absolutely TERRIBLE way to run a business. What's the name of the shop? You should post it so everyone can make sure to avoid it like the plague.

[ifkz]

I may do that, post the name of the place and website, but I want to give the e-mail a chance to get some results or get thrown away. Everyone, thanks for the responses!

[Doonzmore]

I've had similar experiences at a couple game stores. I was once at a retro game store that had a complete copy of The Lion King for the Game Boy in the font case. I asked the owner how much it was and after spending a few minutes on the computer he said "60 bucks *cough* It looks like those boxes are pretty hard to find".

60 bucks huh?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lion-King-Nintendo-Game-Boy-Complete-w-original-Box-instructions-case-/120952738978?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1c295854a2#ht_500wt_844

He never made eye contact with me the whole time. I knew he was full of it. Haven't been back.

Another incident occured when I was at a different store that had a game was interested in buying but was overpriced. I brought the item to the counter and asked if a price could be negotiated. I acknowledged that they needed to make money and I wasn't going to lowball them. The employee chuckled and rudely remarked "you wanna pay more?". He then got on Amazon and started reading off ONLY higher priced listings. I was shocked. Clearly this guy didn't know the difference between the online market vs retail and the difference between what people are selling for vs was people are buying it for.

I had been a customer there for two years, but that didn't stop him from pitching me the store's disc repair system. That's when he started badmouthing Gamestop, saying "they suck" for not using similar practices. Of all my buying experiences I've never encountered an employee that descended into badmouthing the competition just to make them look more attractive.

He didn't stop there. He then tried baiting me into buying two games at a discount instead of one. I chose to take the offer, but that doesn't excuse his childish tactics. I remained polite and picked up a business card at the counter. I e-mailed the person on the card about the employees behavior (I know the employee's name) and instead of getting a reply I get a friend request on facebook. I didn't know what his intentions were, but I wasn't going to argue with him over facebook. I said my peace. Badmouthing the competition is pretty unethical, but connecting with dissatisfied customers on facebook is just strange and sent up too many red flags for me. I ignored the request.

Sorry to derail the topic. As for the OP's situation, what that lady said after turning down the games is pretty low. You've e-mailed them about the incident though so the only thing you can do is to just let it go.

[Rev. Link]

I'm a little confused on the particulars here. Had you expressed interest in buying the games to her, then she checked the prices and marked them up? Or were you just standing around thinking about getting them, then she happened to change the prices before you pulled the trigger?

If it's the latter, then that's kind of okay. Sometimes prices change, and it's not like a store is going to wait until the end of the day when all the customers leave to do it. HOWEVER, the whole eBay pricing thing is complete BS, and her added comment would have been enough for me to want to take a great big piss on the countertop before I left.

If it's the former, then yes, that is absolutely terrible. I would also ask for you to reveal the name of this place to us, after you get a reply to your e-mail. Simply put, places that operate like that have no right to stay in business.

[xelement5x]

Wow, that is pretty lame. I've never had a store increase the price on me as I was looking at an item, but I try to keep a poker face about most stuff and ask to look at the game so I've got it in my hands. Anyone without prices on their games tend to get a pass by me unless it's really something I'm interested in. I also try to have cash on hand as a bargaining chip, some places are willing to knock off a fair amount if you pay in cash, just make sure you still get a receipt if you're skeptical of condition.

As a note though, I collect Sega CD as well and the days of a $100 Snatcher is long gone (at least for now) unless you want it loose or something. Don't get me started on Popful Mail since it seems to be spiking lately after being pretty low for so long, and if you want a copy Keio you basically need to sell body parts (http://item.ebay.com/160816073082). *_*

[sloan]

OP, you don't say if you had frequented this store up to this point, or this was your first visit. I have a few stores that I visit frequently, and like you, have bought through good times and bad from these guys. If one of them did to me what was done to you, I would be livid. I would make it well known that I had purchased many items from them over the years and would not be returning. There is fairness in the business world, and this is not.

[Atarileaf]

It seems a common practice for these stores to check the highest BIN on ebay as a comparible. In this age of everyone having a smartphone with internet access, a tit for tat would be in order - check completed auctions then and there and SHOW them what said game is actually selling for.

You probably won't change their mind but at least they're know that YOU know that they're full of shit.

On a similar note, a local collector I chat with was browsing the local game store, looking at some N64 titles and he made a kind of a "gasp" sound at some of the high prices and the owner, apparently overhearing it said "you don't like it, go BUY IT CHEAPER on your computer".

(1) That's a tactless move on a store owners part
(2) Saying "Buy it cheaper on your computer" is a pretty solid admission of gross overpricing.

Places like this prey on the uninformed consumer who wants it now and doesn't want to bother researching prices.

[ifkz]

NEWSFLASH!

My e-mail got through to the chain owner of all stores and he was very apologetic. He has talked to the employee that crushed my dreams AND, he has offered to sell them to me at the original price when I entered the store. I showed up and he was a great guy to talk to, and I tried to pay him back for his generosity and fairness. I told him about SMS Sonic's UPC making it a thousand dollar title (he might have a copy at home). I told him about the rarity of Deon Sanders Baseball 32x and Spiderman Web of Fire 32X. I told him TurboDuos have been running at $400 recently. Basically every bit of help I could give him on collector quality merchandise.

Also, I have been a loyal customer since at least 2006, which is the join date their e-mail chain showed. I've watched them expand from this small store to several along the way. Always browsed in when I was in the areas.

So, it's time for dinner, and a long session of Snatcher and Popful Mail. So concludes a decade+ journey :) !!!!!

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i430/ifkz/segacd.jpg

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

NEWSFLASH!

My e-mail got through to the chain owner of all stores and he was very apologetic. He has talked to the employee that crushed my dreams AND, he has offered to sell them to me at the original price when I entered the store. I showed up and he was a great guy to talk to, and I tried to pay him back for his generosity and fairness. I told him about SMS Sonic's UPC making it a thousand dollar title (he might have a copy at home). I told him about the rarity of Deon Sanders Baseball 32x and Spiderman Web of Fire 32X. I told him TurboDuos have been running at $400 recently. Basically every bit of help I could give him on collector quality merchandise.

So, it's time for dinner, and a long session of Snatcher and Popful Mail. So concludes a decade+ journey :) !!!!!

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i430/ifkz/segacd.jpg

That's fucking awesome. Diplomacy wins the day.

Congrats on some Sega CD personal grail action.

[Doonzmore]

Chalk one up for the good guys.

[InsaneDavid]

I'd ask if there is some type of law that protects consumers from a practice like this, but even if there is, I'm sure it's one of those things that is broadly interpreted, isn't really actionable and never actually works in the favor of the consumer.

I don't know how the state regulations for the OP go but the Board of Weights & Measures should have some kind of protection in place that you are entitled to the marked price on an item.

EDIT now that I've read the entire thread: I wonder if the owner knows this.

[Gameguy]

I told him about SMS Sonic's UPC making it a thousand dollar title (he might have a copy at home). I told him about the rarity of Deon Sanders Baseball 32x and Spiderman Web of Fire 32X. I told him TurboDuos have been running at $400 recently. Basically every bit of help I could give him on collector quality merchandise.
You'll never find anything priced well there ever again, but at least you got the games you wanted for a decent price.

[M.Buster2184]

NEWSFLASH!

My e-mail got through to the chain owner of all stores and he was very apologetic. He has talked to the employee that crushed my dreams AND, he has offered to sell them to me at the original price when I entered the store. I showed up and he was a great guy to talk to, and I tried to pay him back for his generosity and fairness. I told him about SMS Sonic's UPC making it a thousand dollar title (he might have a copy at home). I told him about the rarity of Deon Sanders Baseball 32x and Spiderman Web of Fire 32X. I told him TurboDuos have been running at $400 recently. Basically every bit of help I could give him on collector quality merchandise.

Also, I have been a loyal customer since at least 2006, which is the join date their e-mail chain showed. I've watched them expand from this small store to several along the way. Always browsed in when I was in the areas.

So, it's time for dinner, and a long session of Snatcher and Popful Mail. So concludes a decade+ journey :) !!!!!

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i430/ifkz/segacd.jpg


The actions of the employee seem pretty despicable and heart breaking, I can only imagine finding a dream game at a good price only to see it marked up in front of me. Though I'm glad to see it worked out and the owner was/is a reasonable person. Congrats on the additions to your collection!

[sloan]

You'll never find anything priced well there ever again, but at least you got the games you wanted for a decent price.

Yep, exactly what I was thinking. I never open my mouth about fair market values to game store employees/owners, unless it is to my advantage.

[goatdan]

I've had the same thing twice, and I'll happily name the stores so that if anyone else sees these, they can avoid them too...

Record Head in West Allis, Wisconsin - This was a LONG time ago, but their prices have not changed since this day. I would stop in there every so often, and they had fair - not outstanding, but fair - prices on a lot of stuff. I had been toying with collecting for the Colecovision because I really liked what I had got when I was younger, and one day I was surprised to find a bunch of games in there. Now, I didn't have a ton of extra money, so I bought about 10 of them not knowing nor caring about rarity or anything like that, just going off names. A few turned out to be rather rare, others were common. Price was between $5 - $10 apiece.

Did that again a week later. Saved money again, and went back... this time, I asked them if I could see the games as usual, and one of the sales people stood with me as I looked at them. He told me to hand him any game I wasn't getting that day, and they walked away with them and they all returned with prices that started at $20 apiece, and went to $100. Usually, the prices were about double what online was. I bought my four or five games for the week, and stopped in again the next week to ask if the prices were permanent and was told that they were. I've been to the store a whole three times since then, and their prices are still just as out of line.

Mega Media Xchange in Brookfield, Wisconsin - For the record, the one on 76th Street in Greenfield is different management and is awesome. But, the Brookfield one is not. I went in there looking for some games for the GOAT Store, and they had their manager behind the desk. They didn't have what I was looking for specifically, but I bought about 10 other games. The manager then said to me, "Hey, we have a few more of these behind the desk, would you like to see them?" I could see a few titles from where I was, and knowing the pricing from the 76th street store, I said yeah I would. I picked out from the stack about 5 games, and the manager said, "Okay, but so you know these aren't the prices on the games."

He then proceeded to approximately double the prices of the games, saying that people didn't know what they were worth and the system that tells them what to sell them for is too low, so they marked them up to make more of a profit. I couldn't believe how he almost talked happily about how they screwed customers by buying them so low, and then marked them higher. I waited while he made the new tags, and when he came back up I said, "Never mind. I don't want those." I started walking away, and he said what about the other 10 I picked - I told him that I didn't know what they cost, and I didn't appreciate being told that I didn't know how much I should be paying, so I left.

As an aside - This just happens to be the same manager which on an earlier trip, when he heard that I co-organized the Midwest Gaming Classic told me that the show was a waste of his time because we didn't have a Time Crisis arcade machine there, and that if we want him to return again we should get get rid of the pinball stuff because he didn't like that. At that time, he then went on to say that he looked at every vendor, and they were all charging, "at least double" the prices that games should be going for.

Oh, one more story - I collect the Mystery Science Theater DVD box sets. One time, I asked someone at that location if they knew where I should be looking to see if they had those, as their layout at the time was really wonky. They told me that "All of those sets are worth hundreds of dollars, and if they would get one in they would sell it on eBay." and that I probably knew that and was trying to rip them off. On the flip side, the ONLY MST3K DVD set that was worth much money at the time... I got it at the other Mega Media Xchange on 76th street. For like $30. Just like *all* of the other sets that I own.

I go to that store *maybe* once or twice a year, usually only if the GOAT Store is missing a really common game that we somehow accidentally sold, and the 76th Street location didn't have it. I try to not talk to anyone who is in there when this happens, and often leave without saying anything.

[Schiggidyd]

I had a terrible story similar to this happen to me!
Any fellow New Jerseyans may know about this hellhole, it's called SWAP on Route 1 in Woodbridge I believe. They buy/sell games, records, instruments.
It's owned by a total prick, who tries charging 20 dollars for worthless cartridges, and reseals many games, especially genesis.
Don't bother going.

Anyway, onto my story.
I was in a collecting mood, and decided to check out their giant stack of manuals, after sifting and finding some decent ones, I ask for the prices. "I don't like to get rid of them, 5 each"
My eyes opened wide and I thought to myself "Jeez, 5 each?!" So I pulled out the only manual that really was worth 5 dollars, a Michael Jacksons Moonwalker manual.
The owner see's that I express interest in it, and he says "Michael Jackson, 10 dollars".

I WAS FILLED WITH RAGE!!!

He tells me "The game goes for 100"
I look at him, laugh, and say "No it doesn't! Don't lie. That game is 30 dollars" and walked out!
Haven't gone back since!!!
Avoid at all costs!

[wiggyx]

I don't know how the state regulations for the OP go but the Board of Weights & Measures should have some kind of protection in place that you are entitled to the marked price on an item.

EDIT now that I've read the entire thread: I wonder if the owner knows this.



That would be the case if he was at the register with the items ready to purchase and they said "no no, these are priced incorrectly".

He would have paid the marked price if he purchased them on that first visit, it just would have been higher than when he first noticed it. Like others have said, stores aren't going to wait until after they've closed to change prices or anything like that. Who wants to sit around after hours re-pricing when they can do it during business hours.

Besides, even if they did change the price at the register, nobody would care. There really isn't a body in place to police that sort of thing, especially on such a small scale.

[ifkz]

I guess if you want to dissect things, it was really an emotional argument. I am aware of some sort of priced-as-marked law, but I never brought it up, or threatened, or yelled, or anything like that. Honestly, when I sent the e-mail to the owner I had written the games off as gone.

My e-mail just laid out my version of the event, with the time and other clerks as witnesses to either backup or blow up my story. I never even mentioned still wanting the games; it was all the kindness/generosity of the owner that I was offered the games at their original prices. I was trying in some way to even things up with the information about other title/systems being valuable; if things in the store shoot up 2000%, it's okay with me.

Spent several hours with Snatcher, a wonderful game all these years later.

What is going on with the Sega CD market, I'm hearing that it's picking up? Is this true? I'm a little out of touch with things.

[mailman187666]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think stores are supposed to honor the marked prices. I'm not sure if there is a difference between second hand and regular retail stores as my experiences have varied. I have been to a second hand store and picked out a game that had the same style price sticker as the thousands of other games in the store only to be told it wasn't the right price and that is was actually more (I think it was a boxed NES Bubble Bobble). On the other hand, I went to a K-Mart and noticed Tals of Vesperia for the 360 in the bargain area with a $20 tag on it when it was about 3 months old. Brought it to the counter and rang up as $60. The cashier noticed that somebody had made a mistake and called a manager over and approved giving it to me for the sticker price of $20.

It could have been that a bigger store chain could afford to lose the money on the sale to keep their customer satisfaction up, where as the local game shop was most likely family owned and that they don't have enough customers to sell something they think they can get more for....but then again the game shop owner didn't actually check any ebay or anything, just pulled a price out of his ass.

[Jaruff]

I guess if you want to dissect things, it was really an emotional argument. I am aware of some sort of priced-as-marked law, but I never brought it up, or threatened, or yelled, or anything like that. Honestly, when I sent the e-mail to the owner I had written the games off as gone.

My e-mail just laid out my version of the event, with the time and other clerks as witnesses to either backup or blow up my story. I never even mentioned still wanting the games; it was all the kindness/generosity of the owner that I was offered the games at their original prices. I was trying in some way to even things up with the information about other title/systems being valuable; if things in the store shoot up 2000%, it's okay with me.

Spent several hours with Snatcher, a wonderful game all these years later.

What is going on with the Sega CD market, I'm hearing that it's picking up? Is this true? I'm a little out of touch with things.

Sega market in general is picking up. Sega CD and 32X have really went up though.

[Steve W]

It's not a game store, but it's a similar theme. Years back, I was planning on going to the Oklahoma Video Game Expo, and a few of us were planning on bringing our Atari Lynx handhelds and we'd have a Comlynx multiplayer session. So the day before the show I went to a local store called Electronic Discount Sales. This store is kind of an electronic junk shop, will all sorts of ancient computers and things, and a few years before, had bought up a bunch of damaged stock from Telegames. Telegames had their US warehouse in Lancaster, TX which had been damaged by a tornado so the company dumped their damaged stock at this store chain (which has now dwindled to a single location). I'd bought plenty of Atari, Intellivision, and Colecovision games after their big sale, but years later, they still had some beaten up Galaga boxes for the 7800 and lots of copies of QIX for the Lynx, all $1.99. So I thought I'd go in and buy a bunch of copies, give one to everybody who participates in the Lynx tournament at the show. But when I get to the store, I find that they're in the middle of repricing the games up to $9.99. After all, they didn't sell worth a damn at two bucks, so let's jack the price up to ten. I didn't buy any of the games, and they still have several copies to this day. It didn't really matter at that time anyhow, since I was the only person who remembered to bring his Lynx with him to the Oklahoma Video Game Expo anyway, it would have just been more stuff to lug around that day.

[sloan]

if things in the store shoot up 2000%, it's okay with me.


Selfish. Think about that statement.

[ifkz]

...in that I'll still shop there regardless because the owner really stepped up and made this situation right.

[InsaneDavid]

Selfish. Think about that statement.

I think I smell a pissed off picker.

[kai123]

I am curious if all of these shows about "found" treasure have really messed up the prices of the used market in general? Not just games but everything seems to have adjusted to "if it is old it is priceless" mentality. Even shitty houses seem to rise in price now for no reason other than you "might" be able to make some money off of a fixer upper. It's very strange to think about how easily people can be influenced by such things.

[wiggyx]

I think the intrawebz are really at fault for the apparent lack of "found treasures" nowadays. Everyone becomes an instant expert when it comes to pricing classic/retro games now :(

[Clownzilla]

I'm pretty strict about handleing this type of behavior pertaining to customer service\satisfaction. If it's a store policy to do this then I will stop shopping there as long as they have this policy in place. If they remove the policy I will stop shopping there for around 1 year after the policy removal and then continue to shop there. If the manager apologizes while confirming that it's not their policy AND then remedies the situation (without employee termination) then I will keep shopping there without penalty. If the manager actually fires the employee for bad customer service via their personal actions then I will actually buy somthing extra from the manager. I have followed these rules before and will keep doing so. Maybe I'm a little strict, but actions like this should not be tolerated in a good business.

[BlastProcessing402]

I'd almost feel bad for those of you with rotten local game stores, but I haven't even seen a local game store since the days of the Dreamcast. You have someplace to shop other than department stores and Gamestop? Then you're one up on me, no matter how bad the place is.

[Jaruff]

I'd almost feel bad for those of you with rotten local game stores, but I haven't even seen a local game store since the days of the Dreamcast. You have someplace to shop other than department stores and Gamestop? Then you're one up on me, no matter how bad the place is.

I'm in the same boat as you. Well, I can travel about 30-45 minutes to the nearest retail store that sells old games or go to one of the larger flea markets (which are also an hour away). There was a local flea market with a games vendor but that place shut down several month ago and his prices weren't great for the quality he had.

[Ryudo]

Thanks for the kind replies. I even sent a 'bad customer service' e-mail to their web presence detailing things. For all I know this was either the store owner or an owner of the chain. I don't expect it to go anywhere, but I do feel better (and requested to be dropped from their e-mail distribution list).

http://www.bbb.org/

[wiggyx]

The BBB is a relic of yestercentury. Also, odds are that a local mom and pop shop isn't even registered with the BBB, not that it matters either way.

[Gameguy]

I'd almost feel bad for those of you with rotten local game stores, but I haven't even seen a local game store since the days of the Dreamcast. You have someplace to shop other than department stores and Gamestop? Then you're one up on me, no matter how bad the place is.
There's a game store within walking distance to my house, a great selection but horribly overpriced. Unless $100 for a loose copy of Contra for the NES is good, or $60 for a loose copy of Rad Racer II. They do have a professional Azuradisc resurfacing machine and charge $5 per disc, if only they knew how to use it properly it might be worthwhile for the odd disc.

Any of these stores that offer poor quality service or products will eventually go out of business, these things kind of take care of themselves over time.

[sloan]

The BBB is a relic of yestercentury. Also, odds are that a local mom and pop shop isn't even registered with the BBB, not that it matters either way.

BBB may be a relic, but it still has teeth. I know a guy who basically ignored a few BBB registered complaints. Before you know it, the police arrived with an arrest warrant. He bonded out of jail, but the advice police gave him was that if he had at least answered the BBB complaints, it would not have escalated to that point. Filing complaints with BBB still holds sway.

FYI. A shop does not have to be registered with BBB to be accountable. This guy's shop was not BBB registered in the slightest.

[otaku]

well if I were running the store and I knew the value of a game had went up etc. I would price up I wouldn't do it in front of customers but I would. As a customer if I wanted the game I'd try to get the previous price on it. But come on they run a business and values change

[kai123]

well if I were running the store and I knew the value of a game had went up etc. I would price up I wouldn't do it in front of customers but I would. As a customer if I wanted the game I'd try to get the previous price on it. But come on they run a business and values change


Next time you are in a big box retailer and you take your purchase to the register and the price jumps $50 let's see what your reaction would be.

[goatdan]

Next time you are in a big box retailer and you take your purchase to the register and the price jumps $50 let's see what your reaction would be.

All right, I'll hop in here to clear up two things...

First, there are NO rules about "whatever an item is marked it must be sold for." Reason being, let's say that you go into a store. You pick up Snatcher for the Sega CD, and Ice Hockey for the NES. You peel the $150 sticker off Snatcher and replace it with the $1.99 sticker. Does the store have to sell it to you for the sticker price on it? If no one saw the change, they can't prove it -- so, no... stores don't *have* to sell you items at the marked price. In fact, a month or two ago, I think it was Target advertised the wrong thing altogether, and they just put up a sign that the ad was wrong and the deal was really for something else.

Big box stores are different though. They generally have contracts with manufacturers that tell them what to set the price at. For instance, my sister works for a JC Penny competitor, and when JC Penny did their whole attempt at lowering regular every day prices, they called the manufacturers to complain they were below the contracted prices, and manufacturers had to make the decision to either lower the regular price for the company my sister works for, or to stop selling products to JC Penny. Same sort of thing happens in the video game industry too - Let's say that when the Wii U comes out, a store realizes it is going to be a hit and starts selling it for double what everyone else is - Nintendo will be forced to stop selling to them, either by their choice or by other stores complaining to them and threatening to stop supporting the product.

Stores that want to up-price consoles do so by creating really large console bundles, and bundling in at full price accessories that are meant to be sold much more competitively. That's why you might see Toys R Us do a Wii U - get the console, three controllers, four games, a carrying case, and a sticker for an extra $400 type package. Often, the stores will purposely produce part of the product, like the carrying case, and then sell it for an astronomical price to drive up the price of the package. Yeah, no one will buy the Wii U case for $75... unless they HAVE to buy it to get a Wii U! Then, when we sell out, we can discount the cases to $20! (or whatever similar action.)

The thing that sucks specifically isn't stores changing their prices. I don't expect to walk into a store that sold me Earthbound 12 years ago for $6.99 and buy Earthbound for $6.99... but, I also don't expect them to let me look at the items I'm interested in and then mark up the ones that I say I will buy after I have agreed to buy them. That's a move that I cannot and never will get behind. Sometimes, I raise prices on games at the GOAT Store. Sometimes, we drop them. But I would never email someone who ordered and be like, "Oh hey, I saw you got Metal Gear for the NES. That's a great game, so instead of it costing you $12, it's now going to cost $20. Please pay us an additional $8."

It's *technically* a legal thing to do, but I would never, ever support a store that operates that way. Sadly, a lot of stores *do* operate that way, as evidenced by this thread.

[Smashed Brother]

I've had the same thing twice, and I'll happily name the stores so that if anyone else sees these, they can avoid them too...

Record Head in West Allis, Wisconsin.....

Mega Media Xchange in Brookfield, Wisconsin....


Record Head makes absolutely no sense to me. I once bought a factory-sealed Nosferatu (SNES) from them for $10, but in their glass case they were selling a USED Sega Genesis for around $90. I haven't been there in years, but back in 2005 things were pretty good there.


As for Mega Media, these have to be franchised, right? I've been to all the ones here in Milwaukee, as well as Green Bay and Appleton....and they all have vastly different prices for the same games, and movies even. What the manager told you about how the system incorrectly applies lower prices to rare games may affect us, the customer, but that same logic doesn't seem to apply to their employees. A few years ago someone had traded in a complete copy of Earthbound at the 76th St location, because there it was behind the counter, priced at $19.99, and it was already reserved for one of the employees. I usually go to the Mega Media on Brady and Farwell because it's closest to me. I noticed that every week when new movies came out into the stores, this Mega Media would already have multiple 'used' copies for sale behind their counter. So I asked the dude behind the counter what was up with that, and he flat out told me that there's a guy who steals these movies from retail stores and sells them to this Mega Media. I'm not going to get into the moral part of this thing, but knowingly buying stolen property is so f'n illegal. I used to be in charge of Loss Prevention for one of the 'Big 3' retailers and every Tuesday, which is new release day, I'd have to keep my eyes out for these bozos who would try to lift multiple new releases of blu rays and DVDs so that, apparently, they could sell them to the Mega Media on Brady and Farwell.

[Greg2600]

Wow, was that sales lady the guy's ex-wife or something, and was purposely tanking the store? Ha.

[Richie]

What the OP asked about is indeed prohibited in certain states. California and Michigan come to mind. There's probably a few others.

You live in Wisconsin right? The state is well known for its minimum markup law. What you heard about probably involves an item being advertised at a price that would violate that law.


All right, I'll hop in here to clear up two things...

First, there are NO rules about "whatever an item is marked it must be sold for." Reason being, let's say that you go into a store. You pick up Snatcher for the Sega CD, and Ice Hockey for the NES. You peel the $150 sticker off Snatcher and replace it with the $1.99 sticker. Does the store have to sell it to you for the sticker price on it? If no one saw the change, they can't prove it -- so, no... stores don't *have* to sell you items at the marked price. In fact, a month or two ago, I think it was Target advertised the wrong thing altogether, and they just put up a sign that the ad was wrong and the deal was really for something else.

Big box stores are different though. They generally have contracts with manufacturers that tell them what to set the price at. For instance, my sister works for a JC Penny competitor, and when JC Penny did their whole attempt at lowering regular every day prices, they called the manufacturers to complain they were below the contracted prices, and manufacturers had to make the decision to either lower the regular price for the company my sister works for, or to stop selling products to JC Penny. Same sort of thing happens in the video game industry too - Let's say that when the Wii U comes out, a store realizes it is going to be a hit and starts selling it for double what everyone else is - Nintendo will be forced to stop selling to them, either by their choice or by other stores complaining to them and threatening to stop supporting the product.

Stores that want to up-price consoles do so by creating really large console bundles, and bundling in at full price accessories that are meant to be sold much more competitively. That's why you might see Toys R Us do a Wii U - get the console, three controllers, four games, a carrying case, and a sticker for an extra $400 type package. Often, the stores will purposely produce part of the product, like the carrying case, and then sell it for an astronomical price to drive up the price of the package. Yeah, no one will buy the Wii U case for $75... unless they HAVE to buy it to get a Wii U! Then, when we sell out, we can discount the cases to $20! (or whatever similar action.)

The thing that sucks specifically isn't stores changing their prices. I don't expect to walk into a store that sold me Earthbound 12 years ago for $6.99 and buy Earthbound for $6.99... but, I also don't expect them to let me look at the items I'm interested in and then mark up the ones that I say I will buy after I have agreed to buy them. That's a move that I cannot and never will get behind. Sometimes, I raise prices on games at the GOAT Store. Sometimes, we drop them. But I would never email someone who ordered and be like, "Oh hey, I saw you got Metal Gear for the NES. That's a great game, so instead of it costing you $12, it's now going to cost $20. Please pay us an additional $8."

It's *technically* a legal thing to do, but I would never, ever support a store that operates that way. Sadly, a lot of stores *do* operate that way, as evidenced by this thread.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

The BBB is a relic of yestercentury. Also, odds are that a local mom and pop shop isn't even registered with the BBB, not that it matters either way.

Agreed.

In our information age they've been fully exposed as a useless, antiquated organization that does little more than act as an "intermediary" and deliver your grievance directly to the company that you're complaining about and ask them to respond to it.

They have no legal, judicial or authoritative power to rectify any dispute.

[InsaneDavid]

All right, I'll hop in here to clear up two things...

First, there are NO rules about "whatever an item is marked it must be sold for."

I can take a picture of the state weights & measures sticker that says "YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THE LOWEST POSTED PRICE ON ANY ITEM" next time I'm in a store if you'd like. As Richie said, I believe it varies state to state.


Reason being, let's say that you go into a store. You pick up Snatcher for the Sega CD, and Ice Hockey for the NES. You peel the $150 sticker off Snatcher and replace it with the $1.99 sticker. Does the store have to sell it to you for the sticker price on it? If no one saw the change, they can't prove it -- so, no... stores don't *have* to sell you items at the marked price. In fact, a month or two ago, I think it was Target advertised the wrong thing altogether, and they just put up a sign that the ad was wrong and the deal was really for something else.

What you described is known as "ticket switching" and it carries with it a legal penalty on par with shoplifting.

In fact, as an example, if you were to remove a security Electronic Article Surveillance sticker on an item and then attempt to remove the item from a store, you could also be charged with burglary in addition since you attempted to defeat a security system. I get to go testify next month as a witness in such a case.

Why do you think things in large stores don't have prices stuck right on the item anymore and the Point Of Sale systems contain detailed item descriptions these days? Remember the days of buying a gift for someone and then having to remove the price label? How many years ago was that? Ticket switching didn't go away, it just became easier to catch with the advanced POS systems where a theoretical $1.99 sticker off Ice Hockey would scan "$1.99 - Ice Hockey - NES" (or something similar) no matter what it's stuck on. In that case there is proof that the pricing was tampered with. It would seem like that would wipe out the crime issue completely but due to cashiers that are unobservant, incompetent or all together lazy retailers still lose millions every year. This is harder to catch without a detailed POS system but that's what display cases are for.

The difference that you described with Target is legally printed, clear as crystal, at the bottom of every page of their ad - that the sale is subject to change at any time. If they post an authorized sign that says "we made a mistake" then they are legally released. However I guarantee that if the mistake hadn't be caught prior to the promotion correction, anyone that requested the sale would have it overridden for them. When this happens large companies get alerted by their stores that there's an error in the advertising and a fix gets sent back the other way. Most of the time the correction rolls out before the promotion begins but the national advertisements have already been printed.

That doesn't mean there haven't been many times where getting out on the sales floor and changing price labels doesn't create issues. For example if price changes are processed while the store is open and there's a markup, a customer that pulls the item off the shelf will get the lowest marked price until employees get over there to change it, even if the POS system rings with the new higher price. This could be considered changing the price while the store is open, but the lowest price must still be honored until the customer is taken care of and the price changes are complete. Finding an out of date sale tag is another instance where the lowest price must be honored and then the tag is removed after the customer is taken care of. This is all done with tact, no one in their right mind would take an item someone had that was priced and increase the price in front of them. Mistake or not, the mistake is not that of the customer and they are still legally entitled to the lowest posted price.

[DDCecil]

What you described is known as "ticket switching" and it carries with it a legal penalty on par with shoplifting.


Oh, man. My brother did this (he was 14 at the time), got caught, and had to do some community service.

I was working at my dad's store, went to the bathroom, came out, and everyone was gone except for a customer who was one of my friends from the neighborhood. I sold him his Street Fighter 2 for SNES for 9.99 and waited for my dad to come back. He then informed me that my brother was inside ZCMI (It's now a Dillards - not sure if it's the same company - I guess I could wiki it), and tried to switch price tags on a bag of candy, and they had a cop car come and take him away.

A few months later, we got a harassing call from them (Thanks, Caller ID!) that my brother answered that said "Ha! Ha! You got caught!" or something similar and hung up.

Later, he went back there (WHY?) with another kid who would hang around our store and accidentally (?) dropped a loogie on the manager from the escalator! The manager came into the store yelling at my dad telling him "I'D BETTER NOT CATCH HIM BACK IN THERE!".

I think he learned his lesson.

[tom]

Thankfully most second hand shops in Europe (Germany) don't even have computers on their desk, and if they do they are NOT connected to the net.....

[Emperor Megas]

As a note though, I collect Sega CD as well and the days of a $100 Snatcher is long gone (at least for now) unless you want it loose or something. Don't get me started on Popful Mail since it seems to be spiking lately after being pretty low for so long, and if you want a copy Keio you basically need to sell body parts (http://item.ebay.com/160816073082). *_*Holy cow! WTF is up with that Keio Flying Squadron price? $500, seriously!?

At $90 (on eBay) Keio Flying Squadron was probably the most I ever paid for a single game in my life, and I had to be egged on by my other half because I was so wishy washy and on the fence. In the end she paid for half of it as a gift, and I still felt a little guilty because I just don't spend that much on games (or much of anything for myself). That $90 seems pretty laughable now, considering. It's the same with my $20 M.U.S.H.A. (another eBay acquisition), and the $60 Snatcher that I got from a special store that's since grown and doesn't even deal in SEGA CD games anymore.

It's time to burn a copy of my Keio Flying Squadron disc because at upwards of $500, this mint copy I have needs to get SOLD! @_@

[goatdan]

As for Mega Media, these have to be franchised, right?

That is correct...


I've been to all the ones here in Milwaukee, as well as Green Bay and Appleton....and they all have vastly different prices for the same games, and movies even. What the manager told you about how the system incorrectly applies lower prices to rare games may affect us, the customer, but that same logic doesn't seem to apply to their employees. A few years ago someone had traded in a complete copy of Earthbound at the 76th St location, because there it was behind the counter, priced at $19.99, and it was already reserved for one of the employees.

It depends. The 76th Street one is the one that I know the most, and one of their managers there has told me that the thing that he hates the most about their name is that the other stores around town that are called the same thing sort of lump them in with how those stores operate.

As for that 76th Street location, there are a few things. First, Greenfield has a rule that for any used merchandise, you have to hold onto it for a certain period before you can sell it in case anyone finds out it was stolen and wants to investigate. Because of that, that store does put things out later than the others, but it isn't by their choice... Along with that, until just a year or so ago, the people that owned them, every time anything rare came in, they would have to pull the games to send to the "warehouse" so the warehouse could instead sell the games on Amazon. Trust me - it wasn't an employee getting that copy of Earthbound, as they were just as annoyed with this rule as I was back then. One game in particular, Batman Forever for the Saturn, not a rare game at least back then they got in. I have always sort of wanted it, as I remember the arcade game - I think with rose colored glasses, but still I'd like to try it - and I asked if I could buy the game. They told me it needed to be sold though Amazon with their warehouse. I told them that I would pay whatever they listed it for, since I could physically see the copy, and they told me they still couldn't do it.

After the employees basically begged them over and over to experiment with carrying some of the more expensive stuff in the store, they now do - and, from what I've been told, it sells really well too. But that probably started about a year ago now. Not that you can get Earthbound for $19.99, but trust me - 76th Street does not have their employees hanging all over stuff keeping it for themselves.


I usually go to the Mega Media on Brady and Farwell because it's closest to me. I noticed that every week when new movies came out into the stores, this Mega Media would already have multiple 'used' copies for sale behind their counter. So I asked the dude behind the counter what was up with that, and he flat out told me that there's a guy who steals these movies from retail stores and sells them to this Mega Media. I'm not going to get into the moral part of this thing, but knowingly buying stolen property is so f'n illegal. I used to be in charge of Loss Prevention for one of the 'Big 3' retailers and every Tuesday, which is new release day, I'd have to keep my eyes out for these bozos who would try to lift multiple new releases of blu rays and DVDs so that, apparently, they could sell them to the Mega Media on Brady and Farwell.

Wouldn't doubt it. On the flip side, I have multiple times seen the Mega Media on 76th Street turn down people with merchandise they think may have been stolen.

Again, it's too bad that the others in town are called Mega Media Xchange...

[goatdan]

What the OP asked about is indeed prohibited in certain states. California and Michigan come to mind. There's probably a few others.

Then it must just be in certain states...


You live in Wisconsin right? The state is well known for its minimum markup law. What you heard about probably involves an item being advertised at a price that would violate that law.

No - that applies to gas. Trust me, I run a retail business here. There are no rules at least here that says that I need to sell a game for the lowest marked price, nor is there anything saying what I can or cannot do with my markups.

I don't sell gas. That is the ONE thing that there is a law about here.


I can take a picture of the state weights & measures sticker that says "YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THE LOWEST POSTED PRICE ON ANY ITEM" next time I'm in a store if you'd like. As Richie said, I believe it varies state to state.

Yeah, but this is one of those nearly unenforceable laws, as you go on to basically outline in the rest of your reply. I'm guaranteed the lowest price, but how can the store not guarantee that I didn't swap the sale sign, or bring in an old one, or... whatever else, really. It all comes down to hearsay in these situations, and I can't imagine any store in their right mind that would put up a sign that says, "Hey, buy this awesome thing for $1.00!" and then sells whatever it is for $5.00 purposely. But, go to buy an item at $1.00 and it rings up at $5.00, if the store says that someone must have moved a sign, then that is all that they need to do to deny you a sale.

So anyway, it may be prohibited, but even if it is, try to get it to be enforced. I can't imagine it would work.

[SparTonberry]

Probably why big-box stores like Best Buy write the price on a sticker on the shelf with the product name.
Makes it harder for either the store or the customer to scam the other.
(well, at least for stuff that's valuable.)

[Robocop2]

I managed a Radio Shack here in TX for a couple of years and if you had a price posted, you had to sell for that price. The only exclusion to that issue was stuff that is/was on sale because there is a little date the price is valid right there on the price sticker. You probably see them on the stickers at BB or any other retail establishment. But any time we had a price increase we had to scramble to put up the new prices on all the items so we didn't end up in that situation but yeah if it rang up for a higher price than what was advertised, we got to sell it at the lower price.

Of course like goatden says; good luck enforcing that.

It's still bad business all around to do that. If you had asked and then left sure it's fine prices change all the time but standing there at the counter money in hand is a different story entirely.

[JSoup]

Only had this happen once before.

Back when the GBA was active, a local GameStop (which has just converted to a GameStop from Funcoland, one of the last Funcolands to hold onto the name that I know of) had a copy of Pokemon FireRed in the game case with a sticker for $15, which was cheaper than I had seen it anywhere else, in fact I think $15 is pretty cheap for that game even today.

A little back story on this store, it was a great store and still is. The one problem was the manager, who was the sales person in this story. Now, see, he's was stuck in a wheel chair due to some past injury. It may seem insensitive to bring this up, but it's kinda important to understand why people didn't like him. His wheel chair gave him a major inferiority complex and it lead to him being a haughty, know-it-all jerkass. Changing prices on the fly, randomly tossing people out of the store for disagreeing with him, calling security on people for attempted theft (that is, picking up game cases to read the back), etc. But, somehow, he always made sales, so he was quickly made a manager.

Anyway:
Me:...it's marked $15.
Him: It's $40.
Me: The sticker says $15.
Him: I know what it says. It goes for $40 elsewhere and it's not leaving this store for anything less.
Me: Bye.

I ended up stopping by a few hours later, before closing time and getting the game for the sticker price from a friend who worked there. I was later informed by that same friend that the manager saw that the game had been sold, checked the register, then the security camera and told the staff to "call security if that kid comes in again, he's no longer allowed to shop here".

[Richie]

Then it must just be in certain states...



No - that applies to gas. Trust me, I run a retail business here. There are no rules at least here that says that I need to sell a game for the lowest marked price, nor is there anything saying what I can or cannot do with my markups.

I don't sell gas. That is the ONE thing that there is a law about here.



I guess it bears repeating: Wisconsin is well known, some might say infamous, for their minimum markup law.

http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/100/30

This is the Unfair Sales Act for the state of Wisconsin. Read it thoroughly. It is applicable to nearly all goods sold in the state of Wisconsin.

So while it's not really applicable to what the OP was talking about, it does outline what I was talking about earlier. Retailers in Wisconsin are not allowed to sell below wholesale, a common Black Friday sales technique. Which would make sense as to why you heard about a big box retailer not honoring the price in an advertisement. It would be illegal for them to do so.

[goatdan]

I guess it bears repeating: Wisconsin is well known, some might say infamous, for their minimum markup law.

This is the Unfair Sales Act for the state of Wisconsin. Read it thoroughly. It is applicable to nearly all goods sold in the state of Wisconsin.

I'm actually a retailer in the state of Wisconsin, and with the Midwest Gaming Classic I'm responsible for sharing rules of the state with other retailers, and with the exception of the petroleum stuff, it's essentially unenforceable how it is.

To quote the law... (boldface mine for emphasis)


(1)  Policy. The practice of selling certain items of merchandise below cost...

(a) "Average posted terminal price" means the average posted rack price, as published by a petroleum price reporting service...

Okay, so that's a pretty well defined price index. And the idea behind that is that you don't have gas stations constantly selling far under one another to put the other out of business, and then jack up their own prices. You can debate whether that is helpful or harmful to the consumer, but it's pretty darn well defined.

There is some language about pricing other goods, but the important parts are here:


2. ... "cost to retailer" means the invoice cost of the merchandise to the retailer, or replacement cost of the merchandise to the retailer, whichever is lower, ...

(6) Exceptions.
(a) The provisions of this section shall not apply to sales at retail or sales at wholesale where:
1. Merchandise is sold in bona fide clearance sales.
2. Perishable merchandise must be sold promptly in order to forestall loss.
3. Merchandise is imperfect or damaged or is being discontinued.
4. Merchandise is sold upon the final liquidation of any business.
...
7. The price of merchandise is made in good faith to meet an existing price of a competitor and is based on evidence in the possession of the retailer, wholesaler, wholesaler of motor vehicle fuel or refiner in the form of an advertisement, proof of sale or receipted purchase, price survey or other business record maintained by the retailer, wholesaler, wholesaler of motor vehicle fuel or refiner in the ordinary course of trade or the usual conduct of business.

So, yes - You have to mark up the price above the "replacement price" of the merchandise (which in itself is a rather ambiguous and unprovable thing to try to get a handle on) unless you have a ton of different acceptable reasons for marking it down to begin with. I can pretty much guarantee you that there is really no enforceable way to do this with anything *except* gas, which is why it really doesn't actually affect anyone here.

Now, to bring this back around to the original topic, especially with places that purchase used items to resell, it is unenforceable. The stores make offers for the goods based on what they think they are worth, but if GameStop buys 1000 Madden 2013s for $20 and they want to sell them for $10, all they have to do is believe that the next person who wants to sell Madden 2013 will do so for a price better than that, and they are acting in good faith.

For Black Friday, businesses can get away with the really low prices in two different ways - the first is that the majority of the stuff that is sold on Black Friday is limited production models that companies make just for that day's sales. Often, they are slightly modified "regular" production models with cheaper components. The stores clearance out these specials at really low prices, effectively skirting the law. And it isn't just Wisconsin that does this, the person that pointed out the practice to me ran a store in Illinois, and said that it was done to ensure they didn't accidentally get more shipments in during the sale period. Secondly, as long as any other store has a low price, another store can do the same thing.

It actually wasn't this state that Target was not honoring their sales price in, I read about that on another forums when the deal came out.

The rules are wonky, but they were written in a way that they are basically unenforceable how they are, and they really don't affect anything in Wisconsin. The only way that a regular retail establishment would EVER get caught in that law is if they are doing something constantly stupid, in which case the wholesaler would stop them anyway. For instance, if you are a store in any state, and you decide to sell all your PS3s at $20 to get people to shop with you, Sony is going to stop giving you PS3s. It would turn itself into a "bona fide clearance" in Wisconsin, as they wouldn't be able to restock, and would basically stop the law from kicking in anyway.

I'm sure that you nor anyone else cared for that much information on this, but it's actually a topic that I know pretty well considering both the GOAT Store and Midwest Gaming Classic, so I think it's worth clearing up on here.

[Richie]

Now might be a good time for you to take a step back, and try looking at things beyond your small business microcosm.

The last time you "cleared things up" you stated that no laws existed anywhere in regard to lowest advertised price. (You were wrong.) Then it was minimum markup laws exist solely for fuel sales. (You were wrong again.) Now they're unenforceable. (3 outta 3.)

Read the law again. It's designed to protect small businesses from being undersold by larger retailers. Sometimes they even call it a "mom & pop law".

What I don't think you realize about business is that competition between big box stores is incredibly fierce. It's not consumers who call the man on Best Buy, it's their competitors. Somebody your size may be able to get by skirting the law, but Wal-Mart, Target, and Best Buy can't.

I don't find your resume particularly impressive and I'd appreciate if you stop spreading hearsay under the guise of fact.

[JSoup]

I don't find your resume particularly impressive and I'd appreciate if you stop spreading hearsay under the guise of fact.

That's kind of the bread and butter of this community, so good luck with that.

[goatdan]

Now might be a good time for you to take a step back, and try looking at things beyond your small business microcosm.

The last time you "cleared things up" you stated that no laws existed anywhere in regard to lowest advertised price. (You were wrong.) Then it was minimum markup laws exist solely for fuel sales. (You were wrong again.) Now they're unenforceable. (3 outta 3.)

Actually, I'd argue that I was right - the laws are unenforceable, I was right - they basically only do fuel, and I was right, they are unenforceable.


Read the law again. It's designed to protect small businesses from being undersold by larger retailers. Sometimes they even call it a "mom & pop law".

What I don't think you realize about business is that competition between big box stores is incredibly fierce. It's not consumers who call the man on Best Buy, it's their competitors. Somebody your size may be able to get by skirting the law, but Wal-Mart, Target, and Best Buy can't.

I like that you are now accusing me of illegal activity, but it isn't "skirting the law." It's using the law exactly as it is written, which makes it basically unenforceable.


I don't find your resume particularly impressive and I'd appreciate if you stop spreading hearsay under the guise of fact.

Okay Mr. 66 posts, I can see how you would come on here and know so much more than someone living and operating under the rules who has to understand them. Sorry that my "resume isn't good enough for you." Since you're so knowledgeable, I'd love to see more than a couple examples about this law being enforced with any sort of regularity in Wisconsin on anything other than fuel. Yes - some businesses have pointed at it as a reason they won't honor prices that are "too low", but I'd like to see all the businesses that have been fined for not marking something up enough.

Good luck.

Edit: Oh, and for the record, I have no care if you have 66 posts or 66,000 posts, but you've made no mention of anything that backs up any of your claims. Your "resume" as you said about me is non-existent. I am relatively well known for actually running things in Wisconsin that pertain to the conversation, which is why I pointed it out. Maybe you run Best Buy regionally, and maybe this affects you way more than everyone we have paid and worked with has told us that it affects us - which is not at all - but you can't prove that either, making your claims just as underwhelming if not more so. Your bringing of that law into this matter, which it had nothing to do with, was to try to make a point about me not knowing about something that I was talking about... that didn't happen in Wisconsin. If you'd like, I can dig up the thread about it from some other forums and link to it.

So with that, I don't find your resume at all, I don't appreciate you now accusing me of illegal activities, and I'm not going to start taking your opinion over the paid legal opinions that we have sought out instead. But thanks.

[JSoup]

What I'm seeing are two people who are both basically correct in their differing account of how the law works and neither is willing to admit the other has a point.

[Emperor Megas]

What I'm seeing are two people who are both basically correct in their differing account of how the law works and neither is willing to admit the other has a point.I haven't followed every post, but from what I have read I think you're right.

[Richie]

Having a point is one thing. Ignorantly spreading misinformation is another. As our "points" completely contradict one another, I think it's safe to say that only one of us is correct.

I think it's worth noting that owning a retail business does not qualify one to interpret law, or even make a reasonable and sensible decision. There's enough stories in this thread to prove that.

Read the law again.

2. With respect to the sale of merchandise other than cigarettes or other tobacco products, fermented malt beverages, intoxicating liquor or wine, or motor vehicle fuel, "cost to retailer" means the invoice cost of the merchandise to the retailer, or replacement cost of the merchandise to the retailer, whichever is lower, less all trade discounts except customary discounts for cash, plus any excise taxes imposed on such merchandise or the sale thereof other than excise taxes collected by the retailer, and any cost incurred for transportation and any other charges not otherwise included in the invoice cost or the replacement cost of the merchandise as herein set forth.

That's the part that defines replacement cost for retailers selling anything outside of tobacco, alcohol, and fuel. Very strange to find it included in what is supposedly a fuel only law.

I don't think its important to really address that list of exemptions, but....maybe you missed the part that discredits your belief that a retailer can just do whatever they want:

(b) No retailer or wholesaler may claim the exemptions under par. (a) 1. to 4. if he or she limits or otherwise restricts the quantity of such merchandise which can be purchased by any buyer or if he or she fails to conspicuously disclose the reason for such sale in all advertisements relating thereto and on a label or tag on such merchandise or on a placard where the merchandise is displayed for sale.

In other words, if a retailer wants to claim an exemption they have to advertise it. Any large retailer that attempts to advertise a falsely claimed exemption is opening themselves and their records up to examination by the state.

I realize that your quantity of merchandise purchased from wholesalers is limited and whether these laws are completely applicable to you may be debatable. Then again, this really isn't about your business's relationship to the law, it's about whether or not the law exists.

To address the legality of your business affairs: I don't know how you got an accusation out of what I wrote, but then again, you weren't capable of comprehending the law.........

As previously stated, a small or independently owned business is not who is policed under a minimum markup law. It's the larger retailers. That's not to say a small business can't be guilty of violating the law, but they're far less likely to be scrutinized. As such, your personal experience really means very little when it comes to this law. I'd be hard pressed to believe that you deal with the FTC on a regular basis, if at all.

Lemme go ahead and help you with your next reply. It starts with "I'm a retailer" and is followed by a bunch of bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKG07305CBs

[goatdan]

Short replies, because I think that as everyone else has noted, it doesn't really matter what I am going to say, you're going to try to say that I have no idea what I'm talking about.


Having a point is one thing. Ignorantly spreading misinformation is another. As our "points" completely contradict one another, I think it's safe to say that only one of us is correct.

I think it's worth noting that owning a retail business does not qualify one to interpret law, or even make a reasonable and sensible decision. There's enough stories in this thread to prove that.

Okay, and what gives you any knowledge of how to do this? Sorry if I tried using "real world" examples where I have dealt with this to explain it.


Read the law again.

2. With respect to the sale of merchandise other than cigarettes or other tobacco products, fermented malt beverages, intoxicating liquor or wine, or motor vehicle fuel, "cost to retailer" means the invoice cost of the merchandise to the retailer, or replacement cost of the merchandise to the retailer, whichever is lower, less all trade discounts except customary discounts for cash, plus any excise taxes imposed on such merchandise or the sale thereof other than excise taxes collected by the retailer, and any cost incurred for transportation and any other charges not otherwise included in the invoice cost or the replacement cost of the merchandise as herein set forth.

That's the part that defines replacement cost for retailers selling anything outside of tobacco, alcohol, and fuel. Very strange to find it included in what is supposedly a fuel only law.

No, it's still completely ambiguous. Let's say that I sold Wiis for $50 because a wholesaler told me that I could get a deal with him for $40. Who is to say that is wrong? It's a law based on hearsay, which is exactly why it is unenforceable. How can you prove I (or anyone else) *didn't* actually see it at a lower price? And pricing changes regularly, and isn't always written down.


I don't think its important to really address that list of exemptions, but....maybe you missed the part that discredits your belief that a retailer can just do whatever they want:

(b) No retailer or wholesaler may claim the exemptions under par. (a) 1. to 4. if he or she limits or otherwise restricts the quantity of such merchandise which can be purchased by any buyer or if he or she fails to conspicuously disclose the reason for such sale in all advertisements relating thereto and on a label or tag on such merchandise or on a placard where the merchandise is displayed for sale.

In other words, if a retailer wants to claim an exemption they have to advertise it. Any large retailer that attempts to advertise a falsely claimed exemption is opening themselves and their records up to examination by the state.

Actually, the part you didn't highlight is the important part there. As long as you don't restrict how much anyone can buy, you can claim the exemption.


I realize that your quantity of merchandise purchased from wholesalers is limited and whether these laws are completely applicable to you may be debatable. Then again, this really isn't about your business's relationship to the law, it's about whether or not the law exists.

To address the legal status of your affairs: I don't know how you got an accusation out of what I wrote, but then again, you weren't capable of comprehending the law.........

I'm completely capable of comprehending the law, and how it actually applies to businesses here.


As previously stated, a small or independently owned business is not who is policed under a minimum markup law. It's the larger retailers. That's not to say a small business can't be guilty of violating the law, but they're far less likely to be scrutinized. As such, your personal experience really means very little when it comes to this law. I'd be hard pressed to believe that you deal with the FTC on a regular basis, if at all.

Again, I challenge you to show me all of these fines that have been levied against the big box retailers.


Lemme go ahead and help you with your next reply. It starts with "I'm a retailer" and is followed by a bunch of bullshit.

Says the man who has no claims of any credibility, nor has made any attempt to do anything but bring up the same rehashed stuff. Save us all the trouble, and drop it unless you'd like to show me where all of these cases about retailers that aren't selling fuel get dinged by it. Otherwise, you're presenting no new information, and simply rehashing an argument that no one actually cares about beyond the person at your keyboard. I don't feel like I can walk away when someone is accusing me of not understanding how the laws of the state that I operate in actually work, and how they affect people with what they do.

Sorry that I'm saying, "I'm a retailer," but you have presented nothing that makes me think anything of your credibility to interpret the law, and your holier than thou attitude gives me no reason to think that you have any valid points that are worth listening to.

If it makes you feel better, yes, in a theoretical world this law would do more than just set the price of gas, and that was what it was intended to do when it was passed. Look up any information on it though, and it only talks about the ramifications for the price of gas with it.

[wiggyx]

BBB may be a relic, but it still has teeth. I know a guy who basically ignored a few BBB registered complaints. Before you know it, the police arrived with an arrest warrant. He bonded out of jail, but the advice police gave him was that if he had at least answered the BBB complaints, it would not have escalated to that point. Filing complaints with BBB still holds sway.

FYI. A shop does not have to be registered with BBB to be accountable. This guy's shop was not BBB registered in the slightest.

You cannot be arrested based solely on BBB complaints. Someone filed charges, plain and simple. If that's what he told you, then he was lying or misinterpreted what he was told.

All the BBB can do is register and try to mediate complaints.

[Richie]

Dan. I've proven that the law exists and that it relates to far more than fuel. There is no burden on me to prove much else. You can backpeddle and challenge any aspect of it that you like, but you're really just proving that you know very little about how a real business is ran.

Since you obviously haven't owned a brick and mortar business, here's an analogy you may be able to understand. Dealing with any sort of trade bureau is pretty similar to dealing with the health department, or the fire marshall. They're not kicking in doors and handcuffing people. They send letters, they show up unannounced, they effectively linger over your shoulder and tell you what you can and can't do. And when you're disagreeable, they subpoena your records. I'm sorry if that's not enforceable enough for you, but any real business owner will tell you, they are required to deal with their local trade bureaus.

Maybe the problem here is that you've internalized something that's really not about you, or your business, and taken everything that's been said personally. That's how it appears to me at least.