Is ebay in part to blame for higher retro game values?

[furcointalk]

i think they are- and a part of it has to do with expensive shipping costs, and the ebay / paypal monster with their blood sucking fees.

When guides value games by last known sales price- there is one thing we need to consider- Ebay encourages sellers to offer free shipping. Sellers don't eat the shipping costs, All they do is increase the asking price of the widget.
If the price of shipping is rolled into the SMB /Duck hunt cart plus the paypal and ebay fees - the final sales price become an abomination of epic proportions.


check out my video blog on the topic and let me know what you think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85iGJN2qhoY

[Satoshi_Matrix]

While I think that ebay does contribute a little bit with some sellers asking outrageous prices and others following suit thinking they can get that much, I don't think it's a major force, no. That's like saying antique dealers regulate the prices of antiques.

The best way to look at what games are worth isn't buy it now auctions, it's the open ones where people bid themselves what they think the game is worth. In the long run, the average prices there really have little to do with ebay.

[buzz_n64]

So very true. I can't even sell most of my 2600 games or any sports games online because it will cost me more money to sell than I make off of them, so I just hold onto them for a yearly yard sale where they don't sell there either. The $10+ for most games makes sense from a sellers stand point who is just trying to turn a profit after fees and shipping costs, but kills it for the bargain hunters.

[Collector_Gaming]

The way i look at it is ebay is doing nothing different then what physical auctions (estate, collector, or whatever).

Remember an item is valued at what people are willing to spend on it.

And if a group of people are willing to spend a couple hundred bucks on a rare game thats made its way to the public eye. Then so be it.

Actually i was gonna ask about something in reference to this a few days ago. I very quickly checked out a picking store i search for finds but it was closing so i couldn't really grasp on what i was looking at. I saw a bunch of carts for the TI99/4A computer (remember that product). And thought how odd it seemed to find those.

I looked on ebay really quickly after i got back to my car and saw very few auctions for em and not going for really anything value wise. and looked at RFGeneration's collection database to see how popular this is with other collectors and noticed a very small handful of collectors even have the unit (which they came in 3 models according to the database) let alone the games.

So i was gonna ask if this is really that rare and why does it go so cheap? Has it fallen into such obscurity that know one even really knows about it to care?

[BlastProcessing402]

It's definitely a factor, but not the only one. And not just for games. Pretty much anything collectible has had the prices affected by eBay.

[Greg2600]

I don't think so, I think it's an illusion because the number of game auctions has dropped in a major way in the last couple years. Perhaps the economy has driven down the number of buyers, but 3 years ago at least you could find almost any game there was at a reasonable price. Now you can't find any auctions other than the squatters who just sit on a price nobody will ever pay.

[LimitedEditionMuseum]

But without eBay,most of us wouldn't even have a collection.we pay it and complain but can't do anything about it.

[Bojay1997]

But without eBay,most of us wouldn't even have a collection.we pay it and complain but can't do anything about it.

I don't know, many of us had pretty good collections long before Ebay. There were always thrifts, garage sales, swap meets, other local collectors, mail order, etc...I won't dispute that Ebay has made more and in some cases rarer stuff available, but without it, many of us would still have great collections.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

In a world without Ebay, it's possible that prices would actually be higher, because we'd be forced to buy more games from stores where they jack up the prices. I think game stores today actually have to lower their prices to compete with ebay.

On the other hand, auctions attract attention, and make people more aware of something they didn't know they wanted. I think that's what has happened with some of the rare NES games.

[j_factor]

I think yes, at least in many cases. But it's kind of a moot point. If eBay didn't exist, something very similar would take its place.

[Schiggidyd]

I don't believe ebay has an effect on prices rising. In fact, ebay acts as a base for competition across the country, resulting in lower prices from sellers.

[The 1 2 P]

The best way to look at what games are worth isn't buy it now auctions, it's the open ones where people bid themselves what they think the game is worth.

But you need to also consider that alot of buy it nows do get purchased. And some people have even transitioned to buy it now auctions only so the prices they get are what they go by because nobody gets a chance to bid up their auctions and test their prices, unless they have a best offer option.


It's definitely a factor, but not the only one.

Thats how I see it as well. Ebay is the main factor in my opinion, which is why thrift stores, flea markets, Goodwill's and even some yard sales I've been to have cited ebay prices for why they have come up with a particular price. But ebay is still not the only factor, just the main one.


I don't know, many of us had pretty good collections long before Ebay. There were always thrifts, garage sales, swap meets, other local collectors, mail order, etc..

I think I'm probably the only person who started buying exclusively on ebay for about a decade before finally transitioning to thrift stores, yard sales and flea markets much later on. Makes me wonder about how much good stuff I missed out on over the years.

[Tupin]

The way i look at it is ebay is doing nothing different then what physical auctions (estate, collector, or whatever).

Remember an item is valued at what people are willing to spend on it.

And if a group of people are willing to spend a couple hundred bucks on a rare game thats made its way to the public eye. Then so be it.

Actually i was gonna ask about something in reference to this a few days ago. I very quickly checked out a picking store i search for finds but it was closing so i couldn't really grasp on what i was looking at. I saw a bunch of carts for the TI99/4A computer (remember that product). And thought how odd it seemed to find those.

I looked on ebay really quickly after i got back to my car and saw very few auctions for em and not going for really anything value wise. and looked at RFGeneration's collection database to see how popular this is with other collectors and noticed a very small handful of collectors even have the unit (which they came in 3 models according to the database) let alone the games.

So i was gonna ask if this is really that rare and why does it go so cheap? Has it fallen into such obscurity that know one even really knows about it to care?
Yeah, no one really cares about the TI-99/4a because Texas Instruments made way too many of the same cartridges and dropped out of the computer industry early.

[furcointalk]

and i agree with most of it.
With that said, i just find it incredible that NES lots are going for five to ten bucks a cart on average. All someone needs to do is throw in a zelda and a metroid, then fill the rest of the lot with crap, and it averages out anywhere from 5 to ten per cart. The crazy thing is, these lots are selling like hot cakes.

Some Examples:

This Just Sold For $70 Bucks.

Double Dragon I And II, Contra, And Super C, Zelda I And II


This lot sold for $95

Castlevania 3 Draculas Curse, Castlevania 2 Simons Quest, Gold Zelda II The Adventures Of Link, Super Mario 3, Rare Mega Man 5, Rare Kings Knight, Bad Dudes, Turtles II Arcade Game, Tmnt Turtles, Contra Super C

And look at this auction.
313 NINTENDO NES GAMES LOT went for $1650
http://www.ebay.com/itm/313-NINTENDO-NES-GAMES-LOT-MEGA-MAN-MEGAMAN-1-2-3-4-5-6-CONTRA-MARIO-ZELDA-BOX-/221078934976?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337954d5c0#ht_8019wt_1165

Don't get me wrong- i think i am glad my video game closet is worth a few $1$!$ grand.. but i had no idea. I just got back into video games this year, and i was shocked SHOCKED to see what had happened to retro prices. At the same time, i am sad i will never be able to buy Earthbound...

[j_factor]

Yeah, no one really cares about the TI-99/4a because Texas Instruments made way too many of the same cartridges and dropped out of the computer industry early.

The TI-99/4a just doesn't have a particularly interesting library. C64 it ain't.

[SparTonberry]

King's Knight, rare?
Another game I'm glad I remember getting free in one of GameStop's B2G1 sales years ago.
(well, Space Megaforce as well. Except that's a game that would've been worth paying for, especially for the few dollars it was probably worth at the time. :) )

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

But you need to also consider that alot of buy it nows do get purchased.

When I explore the Completed Listings, I find that most Buy it Nows don't sell, and sellers just keep relisting them again and again.

[TeddyRuxpin]

I have been selling my video game collection on ebay slowly over the past 6 months and almost eveything has sold as BIN at my asking price. I do BIN/OBO so sometimes I do accepted best offers.

But I'm also not asking crazy prices. I go a few dollars over what auctions go for usually since it's more appealing for many to just buy it instead of fighting for auctions. And since I do OBO they can offer less if they want to. If it's a reasonable offer, I generally accept it.

Sometimes something ends unsold. I will relist it slightly lower or sometimes for the same price (if it's already fairly low) and it will either sell or get a best offer shortly after being relisted.

[The 1 2 P]

When I explore the Completed Listings, I find that most Buy it Nows don't sell, and sellers just keep relisting them again and again.

I understand that but what I'm saying is to use the completed buy it now auctions that did sell as an indicator of how much something can go for. We all know by now not to pay any attention to the items that ended with no bids, especially the buy it now ones.

[tonsofcommons]

My thoughts are that all of the people that played these games as kids are starting to have substantially more income. Therefore they spend it on things from their childhood.

I buy/sell sports cards and the 90s inserts are also very popular and in demand, which equates to higher prices.

[furcointalk]

My thoughts are that all of the people that played these games as kids are starting to have substantially more income. Therefore they spend it on things from their childhood.

I buy/sell sports cards and the 90s inserts are also very popular and in demand, which equates to higher prices.

I've heard that as well. but, i wonder. when those kids get old and eventually die off, will the value of their collectibles go with them to the grave? In other words, kids born today, may never ever play a nes or snes game. will kids born today still want to pay hundreds for earthbound in 2040?

[byuu]

Very unlikely. I've heard that the Atari 2600 market crashed pretty hard. NES is about at its peak. SNES has probably 10 more years before reaching its peak.

Active franchises though will probably continue to be valuable: Mario, Zelda, etc; in the same way people want Amazing Spiderman #1 and such.

But games like Hagane and Wild Guns? Their prices will eventually crash. They weren't very good games to begin with.

[SparTonberry]

Cool. When the price on Wild Guns crashes, I'll pick up a copy.
(though some might disagree about its crappiness. You know the Wild Guns ripoff SD The Great Battle V has also become just as expensive?)
I got a SFC Hagane cart for only like $10 pre-shipping earlier this year (though I'd suspect the price on that has also become ridiculously inflated recently as well).

[craig182]

It depends. If you buy a console and a bunch of games you can not expect free shipping. I believe the shipping should be near enough the exact price to have it shipped and the seller should not make anything.

Also, I believe if people are bidding then eBay isn't the reason. It is us the people that are trying to out bid which raises the prices.

[kupomogli]

I don't know, many of us had pretty good collections long before Ebay. There were always thrifts, garage sales, swap meets, other local collectors, mail order, etc...I won't dispute that Ebay has made more and in some cases rarer stuff available, but without it, many of us would still have great collections.

But still like thrift stores, garage sales, etc, are definitely not as good as going to Ebay. With video games, I'm pretty OCD about owning certain games that are in less than perfect condition, and mainly this only pertains to disc titles. Pawn shops used to be pretty big on requiring the game to be in very good condition, but at a flea market, finding a game you've been looking for and the disc in perfect condition means the stars must have been perfectly aligned just for you that night.

So if it's disc based and no longer in print, there's really no other way to get the game in my collection other than either trade with other collectors or buy it off Ebay. With games like Brigandine Grand Edition, both rare and an import, without Ebay or other collector's, it's pretty much impossible.

The last game I actually kept from a flea market was a cartridge game. If I find anything worth purchasing at a flea market, the majority of the time I usually purchase it just to sell it.

[zakthedodo]

The buyers drive the price.

Ebay fees once a sale goes over 25 dollars isn't that much of an issue.
What kills me on Ebay is shipping to other countries. I used to flat fee but after getting burned on shipping a couple of times I ask international buyers to contact me.


Eventually an obviously over priced item will sell but collectors and even casual hobbyist know if they're getting gouged or not.

I've found games going for over 80 dollars for half as much just by trying different search terms.
Lots of sellers have no idea what they have.

Sentimental value will have people overpay probably more than anything else.

[sloan]

There is really no "in part" to this discussion. BIN auctions have driven everything upward in retro gaming prices.

[bugrouleau]

Old games are only expensive cause there little to non of lit left. Like Diamonds and other items, the more rare it is the higher it's price value.

[j_factor]

Old games are only expensive cause there little to non of lit left. Like Diamonds and other items, the more rare it is the higher it's price value.

I know this is way off topic, but diamonds aren't that rare at all. They're pricey because De Beers has monopolized the diamond mines.

[theclaw]

Both ways to varying degrees. Ebay helps grant quick access to uncommon games, which is more exposure for potential buyers. Yet they also take little stand against price gouging.

[Atarileaf]

There is really no "in part" to this discussion. BIN auctions have driven everything upward in retro gaming prices.

Our local game stores price their retro games almost completely on the highest BIN they can find. They won't even listen to a logical argument about actual completed auction prices.

[furcointalk]

Atari carts on average are cheaper than NES carts, yet they are older.

As an Ebay seller and buyer, i can tell you from first hand experience, i have to charge more for crap because the fees eat you alive.

BIN has become popular because its cheaper to sell with BIN than with an auction. Ebay has made it impossible to start the bidding at one penny for a common cart because of the fees. Also shipping on one cart has become very expensive. Media mail shipping on one cart will cost about 3 bucks or more. Ebay thinks including free shipping on all items is the way to go- so that is what i do. I start the bidding on mario duck / hunt for 7 bucks (free shipping), because it isn't worth selling for any less. If the cart sells for 7 ebay / paypal takes over 16% in fees. then i have to pay for shipping. when its all said and done, i am lucky to make two dollars- was it all worth it? hell no!

so if i am a seller, i will charge ten bucks for that cart. but, if i were to sell it a garage sale, i would look at the recent sales on ebay and see that the very same cart sells for 7 or more. most people who don't sell on ebay have zero concept of the fees, so they think that cart is now worth 7 or more and that it must be rare....

but if SMB duck hunt is worth 7- metroid must be worth 20 right???

before ebay fees became 16% and shipping tripled, i was able to sell carts for 7 or less and make a few bucks profit- those days are gone. it doesn't make sense to sell anything for less than 15 bucks on ebay.
don't forget that buyers have all the power on ebay, returns for no reason, buyers steal, and ask for refunds at alarming rates, professional sellers need to bake those prices in as well.

i am not a professional seller, i just sell extra items, or i sell to clean out the closet, but ebay has made it impossible to sell items at resonable prices.

[JSoup]

A few members here and in other retrogaming communities seem to stick to the opinion that prices are high due to the brute force collecting methods introduced by NintendoAge, but I honestly don't know how much truth there is to that.

[furcointalk]

A few members here and in other retrogaming communities seem to stick to the opinion that prices are high due to the brute force collecting methods introduced by NintendoAge, but I honestly don't know how much truth there is to that.

i've never heard of the "brute force" collecting method. what is it exactly?

[JSoup]

i've never heard of the "brute force" collecting method. what is it exactly?

As I understand it, instead of hunting down deals on games, you just up and buy most/half/all of your collection from a different collector for a price that far exceeds what the total should be. This in turn drives up the price for each individual item for the next guy. Rinse, repeat.

[jperryss]

What about a game that doesn't show up on eBay too often, but rarely sells for over $40 when it does. You'll see a couple sellers list that title with a BIN of like $200, which will sit for months.

Then, someone lists a BIN for $120 and a buyer snaps it up because it looks like a good deal "compared to the $200 everyone else is asking".

According to eBay the going price of that game has just tripled.

[PapaStu]

i've never heard of the "brute force" collecting method. what is it exactly?


You collect by force. Buying items without shopping or dealing. Basically you're tossing money at a collection just to 'get' the stuff.

Many collectors tend to brute the last few items missing from their sets because they want the hunt over, but when you start throwing all the monies around and you're in some cases hundreds of games off, you're just collecting by force at that point.

[Robocop2]

Our local game stores price their retro games almost completely on the highest BIN they can find. They won't even listen to a logical argument about actual completed auction prices.

I just had that happen yesterday. Found a smaller mom and pop that I thought I'd try out. Guy at the main location tells me they have a Jaguar with a cd attachment at his other store he'd sell for 200 as a set. I'm thinking I already have a jaguar and the CD attachment would be nice to have just since a lot of the homebrew is cd only and that I could sell the jag and make some of that back. I get over there and the jackass at the counter plays on the computer and says "300 for the set" because prices change all the time and he doesn't always keep track of that stuff...... I was reall too pissed off to fight it yesterday but I'm thinking about calling the owner tomorrow since he's the o e who told me they would sel it for that. Of course it's probably broken since so many of those are. It still the principle of the matter is what pisses me off.

[DeseoParadise]

The problem isn't Ebay, the problem is that there is a lot of people who collect games and every day there is less games.

[JSoup]

The problem isn't Ebay, the problem is that there is a lot of people who collect games and every day there is less games.

That's not implicitly a problem, though. Generally speaking, most hardcore collectors all have a price or are otherwise willing to sell/trade. The surplus may have a semi-solid number of every little thing, but there will always been a percentage of that surplus either in circulation or ready for circulation. Which is why we have the concept of brute force collecting, it keeps things eternally in some form of circulation, but jacks the prices up quickly.

[Tanooki]

There are a few on NA that do that 'brute force' purchasing, but it's a small minority. At least in respect to nabbing up a crap load of games at once with no regard to price. Usually on there you'll get people get a brute force pick up but where they've usually cut the seller fairly deep either with good negotiating tactics or luckily enough the other guy had no idea what they had(but anyone can do either.) There are a few annoying types I have seen, but it has been on solitary games, wanting to condition upgrade or get the best right out of the gate and damn the price, usually then in some cases to VGA the stuff to exponentially increase the value. Me I play stuff, affordable for me or not (off and on over the years) I refuse to go sealed. If I buy one I'll damn well open it and play it if it's something I want if the price is cheap, or if I'm tight I'll sell it and get a loose one and more with the funds. :D

ebay is in part to blame on topic though, but same can be said for craigslist too, kijiji and the rest. Enough thanks to amazon/ebay have been tipped off finding some games are worth a fortune, and they're too stupid/lazy to actually look deeper and think ALL games are worth their weight in gold and that makes it a problem for sure. I for one am patient. It could take me a week, month ,year...10years and I'll wait to get what I want as I'm not going to fall into the trap.

[Zing]

Ebay greatly increases supply, which inevitably lowers prices. However, the increased visibility and access to the global market allows greater demand, which raises prices.

The end result is probably relatively equal pricing, with or without Ebay.

It's difficult for me to say whether I would have a collection without Ebay. I certainly did not have what I would consider a "collection" before I started using Ebay. All of my games at that time were bought new at retail. I started buying games on Ebay in 2003. The last time I bought any used games from anywhere prior to that was a small, local video game shop, back when the PlayStation first hit. I can confidently say that without using Ebay, it would be virtually impossible for me to own many of the games I now own, although this is with the existence of Ebay. Maybe if online auction sites did not exist, there would be more abundance "in the wild", but I have a strong feeling that an Ebay-less world would simply have more games in the garbage, since people would not have an easy outlet for them!

[mailman187666]

I don't think ebay is really to blame or the cause of the high prices. Usually a re-seller will use ebay to determine what people are willing to pay across the country using the completed listings (or at least the more knowledgable sellers). Most of the sellers that use that method of pricing I would say are fair with pricing.

My opinion is that its these news articles about people selling thier collections for 1.2 mil or the stadium events news story from a year or two back. Those stories reach a wide variety of people who wouldn't normally have games on thier radar and would just think of them as obsolete electronics. Then you have all these auction shows like Storage Wars and such where video games are valued on national TV. Next thing you know the people who would normally sell thier collections for a steal of a price are looking up thier values and try to sell them for top dollar.

A year or two ago I could walk out of a flea market with boxes and bags full of games. Now I can't even get close to a table with games without hearing the seller going "this is the price because its extremely rare" or "on ebay blah blah blah". More people are collecting now than they were a year or two ago. I used to get a minimum of 1 good find a year, this year everything I've found has been ebay prices or higher with maybe a few exceptions.

[Griking]

i think they are- and a part of it has to do with expensive shipping costs, and the ebay / paypal monster with their blood sucking fees.

When guides value games by last known sales price- there is one thing we need to consider- Ebay encourages sellers to offer free shipping. Sellers don't eat the shipping costs, All they do is increase the asking price of the widget.
If the price of shipping is rolled into the SMB /Duck hunt cart plus the paypal and ebay fees - the final sales price become an abomination of epic proportions.


check out my video blog on the topic and let me know what you think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85iGJN2qhoY


I think that its most definitely responsible for high gaming prices.

Every time you see a game up for sale on eBay for a large amount of money (like that Final Fantasy game in the past few weeks) there's going to be a hundred people who won't know why the asking price was so high and will therefore think that all Final Fantasy games are worth a ton. For most pawn and consignment shop owners and flea market vendors a games value is the highest price they've ever seen asked for it.


The way i look at it is ebay is doing nothing different then what physical auctions (estate, collector, or whatever).

Except that on eBay whenever there's a bidding war and someone grossly over pays for a game a million people probably hear of it rather than a room for of people. The craziness with the NES black box games a few months back for example.

[Double Ugly]

The internet in general is the cause of the increased value of video games with eBay being a large factor in it. Without the internet most collectors wouldn't know that Stadium Events is rare & without eBay most merchants wouldn't know it is rare. Wide spread information on video games is what has caused the prices to go up.

[Atarileaf]

It's difficult for me to say whether I would have a collection without Ebay.

Depends on how long ago you started collecting. My Atari collection in 1992 was easily much larger than it is now since EVERYONE was dumping Atari systems and carts for pennies. This isn't hyperbole, I've actually bought Atari games by the garbage bag full, just from yardsales. I'd start the morning with an empty bag and have it pretty much full at the end of the day and the nice thing it wasn't just common games, but some rarities. Of course rarity and its subsequent value didn't mean anything back then.

Man, those were the days, you'll NEVER see that again.

[Press_Start]

The internet in general is the cause of the increased value of video games with eBay being a large factor in it. Without the internet most collectors wouldn't know that Stadium Events is rare & without eBay most merchants wouldn't know it is rare. Wide spread information on video games is what has caused the prices to go up.

Don't forget celebrity appeal. Retro games wouldn't me what they are today without the AVGN and other online reviewers bringing a second spotlight in the age of YT. Heck, Guardian Legend ran BINs no hire than $3 until Mike Matei called the #1 forgotten NES title in his video (which I wholeheartedly agree and eerily similar to my own) and now we got Ebay listing asking for $15+.

[wingzrow]

This is filtering down to garage sales too. I was at one yesterday and a lady was asking $80.00 for 10 junky launch titles + mario 3. We're talking jeorardy and anticipation grade games here.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I don't have any strong opinion on console/portable game software, but I can say for certain that outrageously priced (Buy It Now) listings for Nintendo Game & Watch units have had an affect on the perceived value of those games by the collecting community.

What's unfortunate is that as those BIN listings sit there $100-$200 above what reasonable asking prices SHOULD be, unsold for YEARS in "eBay stores" they unwittingly become "reference" prices for new BINs and auction starting values/reserves for people not willing or smart enough to check history on completed auction values.

[Nature Boy]

eBay is just that guy at the mall (or flea market) who charges way more than what we consider true value to be.

The fact that some people buy from those guys doesn't drive prices up any more than someone buying a hammer from Home Depot (which I find to be expensive) instead of Canadian Tire (just a random example of somewhere I know I can get a better price) drives up the prices of hammers.

Some people are willing to pay more for their hammer at Home Depot, and some people are willing to pay more on eBay. The reasons for that are another story!