Valve's updated Steam Subscriber Agreement bars class action lawsuits [Joystiq]

[DP ServBot]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2012/08/steam-agreement.png (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/01/valves-updated-steam-subscriber-agreement-bars-class-action-law/)
If you're like most people, when Steam started up this morning you noticed there was an extra pop-up prompting you to click a button that says "I agree" a few times, and you did this without reading much into what you were consenting to. Turns out you don't actually "own" your left hand anymore. Oh, well.

Actually, it was an updated Steam Subscriber Agreement (http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/) altering the legal options available to customers. First, Steam customers may no longer bring class action claims against the service, mirroring similar moves by large distribution and publishing companies, including Sony (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/09/16/new-ps3-terms-of-service-aim-to-prevent-class-action-lawsuits-a/) and Microsoft (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/12/07/new-xbox-live-terms-of-service-prevent-class-action-lawsuits-aga/).

"We considered this change very carefully. It's clear to us that in some situations, class actions have real benefits to customers," Valve explains. "In far too many cases however, class actions don't provide any real benefit to users and instead impose unnecessary expense and delay, and are often designed to benefit the class action lawyers who craft and litigate these claims."

Individual claims will still be allowed, though Valve has now instituted a required process that channels these claims to arbitration or small claims court. Valve will reimburse the cost of arbitration under a certain amount, provided the arbitrator deems the claim isn't frivolous nor the expenses unreasonable.

Valve is also opening an office in Luxembourg "to better serve our EU customers and partners," who will sign an EU-specific SSA.

Hey, at least you still own your left hand.http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.joystiq.com/media/feedlogo.gif (http://www.joystiq.com)Valve's updated Steam Subscriber Agreement bars class action lawsuits (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/01/valves-updated-steam-subscriber-agreement-bars-class-action-law/) originally appeared on Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com) on Wed, 01 Aug 2012 14:30:00 EST. Please see our terms for use of feeds (http://www.weblogsinc.com/feed-terms/).

Permalink (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/01/valves-updated-steam-subscriber-agreement-bars-class-action-law/) | Email this (http://www.joystiq.com/forward/20291114/) | Comments (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/01/valves-updated-steam-subscriber-agreement-bars-class-action-law/#comments)

[marlowe221]

It will be interesting to see what happens if Valve actually ends up in a class action case. Contrary to the belief of most big businesses in the US there are actually limits to the rights that you can make people sign away.

These kinds of waivers of rights are not always upheld - particularly in circumstances like these where the company throws a massive wall of text at the consumer written in legal-ese and the consumer has no meaningful opportunity to negotiate the terms (i.e. a take it or leave it proposition). Mostly it has been cell phone contracts in the past that have been allowed to go to court despite clauses in the contract that appear to force arbitration, etc.

[The 1 2 P]

Eventually every game company is going to make this change. Microsoft and Sony have already done it. It's only a matter of time before Nintendo does it too.

[danarcturus]

Eventually every game company is going to make this change. Microsoft and Sony have already done it. It's only a matter of time before Nintendo does it too.

Yes, I think so too.

[CDiablo]

If this is the future of gaming I dont want any part of it. I feel people are constantly defending digital download/cloud gaming(not exactly around here, but other boards), steam in particular as some bright future of gaming. All I see is publishers trying to squeeze the consumer base dry and I feel it will leave the big gaming industry crippled.
http://i.imgur.com/YM7Hq.png

[The 1 2 P]

If this is the future of gaming I dont want any part of it. I feel people are constantly defending digital download/cloud gaming(not exactly around here, but other boards), steam in particular as some bright future of gaming. All I see is publishers trying to squeeze the consumer base dry and I feel it will leave the big gaming industry crippled.
http://i.imgur.com/YM7Hq.png

Now thats just fucking ridiculous. Why wouldn't they let him continue to play the games he's already paid for?

[Kitsune Sniper]

Now thats just fucking ridiculous. Why wouldn't they let him continue to play the games he's already paid for?

Because they're dicks. I didn't agree to the new thing and it wouldn't let me play my games.

This shit is borderline illegal and a lot of folks are not happy. I'm pretty sure Valve will get themselves in trouble over it soon enough.

[Gameguy]

I'm glad I don't buy anything through Steam or any other download only company, if I can't physically own the game I won't pay for it.

[kupomogli]

So how do you sign this agreement? I know where the agreement is at on Steam, but it doesn't allow me to accept or anything. That mean it's already accepted?

[JSoup]

So how do you sign this agreement? I know where the agreement is at on Steam, but it doesn't allow me to accept or anything. That mean it's already accepted?

I gather that it's a 'if you're using the service, you agree to these terms by default' type of situation. Taking a page from the big book of Nintendo it seems.

[substantial_snake]

So how do you sign this agreement? I know where the agreement is at on Steam, but it doesn't allow me to accept or anything. That mean it's already accepted?

Really? It popped up on the last update for me.

Frankly I'm surprised at the outrage on these forums. Steam has been hailed as the savior to PC gaming for so long I would think more here would just go with it. Seems like other places online have literally legions willing to defend everything they do, just expected more of that here. lol

[Berserker]

Really? It popped up on the last update for me.

Frankly I'm surprised at the outrage on these forums. Steam has been hailed as the savior to PC gaming for so long I would think more here would just go with it. Seems like other places online have literally legions willing to defend everything they do, just expected more of that here. lol

I've never thought of Steam as saviors of PC gaming, more like least evil amongst peers. This makes them seem slightly more evil to me. Unfortunate, but on its own not a deal breaker for me personally.

[Griking]

I personally don't like the idea of them saying "agree to our terms or lose your games" but I did agree to them because there really wasn't anything in the new terms that I had a problem with.

[CRTGAMER]

In other news, I have been piling up on older PC games from the Thrift Store with License Agreements that cannot force my hand, even when I disagree with them.

[Kitsune Sniper]

In -other- news...

Valve is going to start selling non-gaming software through Steam.

http://store.steampowered.com/news/8584/

This might've been the real reason behind this agreement update. If they handle software sales in the same way they handle game sales - by that I mean they lock you out if you do something they don't like - you bet your ass they're going to get sued, and FAST.

[JSoup]

In other news, I have been piling up on older PC games from the Thrift Store with License Agreements that cannot force my hand, even when I disagree with them.

This, but replace "the thrift store" with "piracy".

[Gameguy]

In -other- news...

Valve is going to start selling non-gaming software through Steam.

http://store.steampowered.com/news/8584/

This might've been the real reason behind this agreement update. If they handle software sales in the same way they handle game sales - by that I mean they lock you out if you do something they don't like - you bet your ass they're going to get sued, and FAST.
From that link;


"The 40 million gamers frequenting Steam are interested in more than playing games," said Mark Richardson at Valve.
It's clear what's in store for the future of Steam. They're going to start selling pornography.

[PapaStu]

Now thats just fucking ridiculous. Why wouldn't they let him continue to play the games he's already paid for?

Because they use Steam as their DRM point of validation. No access to the account, no way to prove the games are authorized to you, thus gamey no workie.

No different when you've got a new 360 and you can't access XBL to validate your account and your older XBLA games won't work because they aren't attached to that system you no longer have.

[The 1 2 P]

Because they use Steam as their DRM point of validation. No access to the account, no way to prove the games are authorized to you, thus gamey no workie.

No different when you've got a new 360 and you can't access XBL to validate your account and your older XBLA games won't work because they aren't attached to that system you no longer have.

But the difference is that once you migrate your account to the new console and redownload all of your content with the transfer cable you only need to connect to XBL once and then you can get offline and still play all of your games. I was wondering why something similiar couldn't happen with Steam games but it sounds like they need a constant connection to the Steam servers for complete access. Is this because all Steam games are saved on Steam's network and not on a person's hard drive?

[marlowe221]

The games are on your hard drive. That's not the reason.... I'm thinking the reason is..... EVIL :vamp: :vamp: :vamp:

[dao2]

But the difference is that once you migrate your account to the new console and redownload all of your content with the transfer cable you only need to connect to XBL once and then you can get offline and still play all of your games. I was wondering why something similiar couldn't happen with Steam games but it sounds like they need a constant connection to the Steam servers for complete access. Is this because all Steam games are saved on Steam's network and not on a person's hard drive?

They are saved on your HDD and you can access steam offline (so if you disconnected your computer before this update you could play most of your games in offline mode). But the point is you don't own licenses to "your" games, steam is pretty much renting them to you, if and if you don't like their new rental agreement you can basically fuck off. The whole premise of DRM is that you don't own jackshit, it's not the activations or the limited installs or the always online, those are systems in place to enforce it.

[JSoup]

You know, I'm continually surprised that Steam caught on at all. The gaming community at large has always been anti-DRM to the extreme. From my point of view it's:

A. I could pay Steam $5 for this game so I'll be allowed to play it so long as Steam is happy with me/doesn't suddenly implode.

OR

B. I could just pirate the damn thing and play it whenever I want, however I want.

Given how I feel about the world, I'm more prone to option B, but I've got a healthy Steam library in my back pocket. So I guess I'm just as much of a whore as the rest of the gaming world. :D

[dao2]

This has nothing to do with DRM.... just about class action rights. Steam has been DRM since day one, nobody liked it day one cause of that and also because it was a pos software. They massively improved the service (built it from ground up really), marginally improved the software (although it still blows) and DRM hasn't changed. The problem is people will protest a lot of things they don't like, but they're weak-willed and easy led. So in time they will accept anything, like Origin :P

[kupomogli]

Really? It popped up on the last update for me.

I just installed Left 4 Dead and it prompted me to accept the agreement then. I guess because I didn't play anything on it after the update is why.

[JSoup]

I've been playing Spiral Knights off and on for the last week and I've yet to have this agreement thing popup.

[dao2]

I had it pop up right when I tried to login, are you guys by chance running in offline mode?

[JSoup]

Huh. Finally got a pop up about accepting new terms of service.....for the November 2005 update.