NEO GEO 101 - Please help me (and any other NEO GEO noobs) get started collecting

[Emperor Megas]

Right, I'm not sure if this has been covered recently (I admit I didn't search the archives), but I was hoping that someone could PLEASE explain to me the BASICS of Neo Geo. The system(s), the games, the prices, the import aspect, everything about the Neo Geo scene with respect to the fact that I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the platform AT ALL.

I know that some of you are the hardest of the hardcore, and eat, sleep, and breath this stuff, but I really need it broken down like I'm a 10 year old. I may have made or read a topic about this a year or two ago, I don't recall for sure, and don't remember any of the information if I did. In any event, I always hear strange acronyms (like AES, MVS, etc.), references to 'consolized' units, CD systems, multi-carts, etc, and EXTREMELY high dollar price points, all of which confuse and scare me off from getting into the platform even though I'd like to.

As for my collecting goals, I just want a I reliable system with a handful of complete games (by "complete" I simply mean boxed, and with instructions -- no flyers, or mail in slips, or OBI strips, shit like that), and I don't want to spend a crazy amount of money for it all. I absolutely don't care about rare collectors' item pieces, or puritanical bullshit (no offense to hardcore collectors). I don't care if the cases and manuals are reproductions, either, so long as they're standardized (I just like cases for my games if possible, and uniformity).

Like many, I enjoyed Neo Geo arcade games back in the day, and would just like to have a Neo Geo system with some of the games that I played when I was younger in the arcades, at home in my game room. Games like Alpha Mission II, CyberLip, Magical Drop, Magician Lord, Samurai Showdown, Sengoku, and some of the games that I've played on MAME, like Last Hope, Twinkle Star Sprites, and View Point.

PLEASE help! I'd really like to get the run down here without having to bounce around to a lot of different places. I've looked through other forums and after pages of reading I always feel overwhelmed and none the wiser. My birthday is coming up soon, and I might put my bit in for something Neo Geo related to get me started if it's affordable. Anyway advice will be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks in advice!

[Emperor Megas]

I'm sorry if this seemed like topic flooding. I just read through that thread, but it's a little different from what I'm asking since it's still not layman friendly. I'm trying to get to the first step where I'm able to actually follow discussions like that one. Right now I feel like my wife does when she's trying to purchase something for me and she has no clue about whatever the obscure item or gaming platform is. :puppydogeyes:

[Dreamstate]

Have you been over to neo-geo.com? They have a Neo-Geo Wiki, FAQ, Game List, Value, Hardware explainations and more. Really a great way to get up to speed.

[Emperor Megas]

Have you been over to neo-geo.com? They have a Neo-Geo Wiki, FAQ, Game List, Value, Hardware explainations and more. Really a great way to get up to speed.No, I hadn't. At first I was like; damn, wall of text, but I've been reading through it a little and I think I'm finally understanding this stuff a bit more. Thanks.

[LimitedEditionMuseum]

I have learned a LOT on here. I should have my NG real soon and I already have some games. I can't wait to play it.

[Dangerboy]

As a person who owns all three formats (home, home CD, Consolized Arcade MVS), I can offer a plain English FAQ for you that will help sort everything out.

a. Financially:
- Home System AES: Decent System prices, cart prices all over the place, getting worse with time
- Home CD System: Easiest and (with enough looking) Cheapest way in. You exchange money saved for load times
- Consolized Arcade MVS: Initial Investment is a tad steep based on motherboard, but you're then getting the real arcade games at various prices.

**CD System is also the easiest to acquire....um... *cough* "for test use only" *cough* versions of games. No modding required.

b. Convenience
- Home System: Native AV, an English unit will play an import in English so long as it was released in the US. (i.e. none of the Quiz Games are in English), can buy convertor for MVS
- Home CD System: Native AV and S-Video (So Pretty), same language trick, games are easier to find on the Import Side (and cheaper than US Version)
- Consolized Arcade MVS: a 2 Slot with Memory Card CMVS is practically perfect, Arcade board allows for free play - easiest to throw BIOS chip in

c. Problems / Traps
- Home Systems: Pirate Cart issues seem on the rise, many carts are now triple figure prices. Various Boards make upgrading / mods an issue
- Home CD System: Only the middle version is stable (Japan had 3 units, US Version is the 'middle' one), laser assembly a tad fragile. Only about half the software library.
- Consolized Arcade MVS: Arcade carts insanely easy to bootleg, steep buy-in, do-it-yourself'ers need to be sure motherboard is okay

Just my opinion, but of the three, I prefer the Consolized MVS unit myself. You depending on the board type (1 slot, 2 slot, etc) and features (UNIBIOS, AV, Component, VGA, etc) the price to make one / buy one from someone can go between $200 to $400. I personally own a $400 model that was assembled by jammanationx.com and it's glorious. It's a 2 Slot with Memory Card reader, Unibios, AV, S-Video, and Component Out. The average arcade cart is about $30 to 40, and it's the real deal. The UNIBIOS makes many of the harder games finally fun to play (Invincibility on Magician Lord?! YES PLEASE).

The CD Deck, with it's flaws, has its own advantages too. While it's true there are some terrible load times in some games, so long as it' snot a fighting game the rest are actually pretty dam impressive. Many of the original releases only load once in the beginning, and then that's it. Many of the releases will feature redone soundtracks, or be exclusive to the system (Iron Clad, Samurai Shodown RPG, etc). But again, only about half the library is present.

[StealthLurker]

As a person who owns all three formats (home, home CD, Consolized Arcade MVS), I can offer a plain English FAQ for you that will help sort everything out.

a. Financially:
- Home System AES: Decent System prices, cart prices all over the place, getting worse with time
- Home CD System: Easiest and (with enough looking) Cheapest way in. You exchange money saved for load times
- Consolized Arcade MVS: Initial Investment is a tad steep based on motherboard, but you're then getting the real arcade games at various prices.

**CD System is also the easiest to acquire....um... *cough* "for test use only" *cough* versions of games. No modding required.

b. Convenience
- Home System: Native AV, an English unit will play an import in English so long as it was released in the US. (i.e. none of the Quiz Games are in English), can buy convertor for MVS
- Home CD System: Native AV and S-Video (So Pretty), same language trick, games are easier to find on the Import Side (and cheaper than US Version)
- Consolized Arcade MVS: a 2 Slot with Memory Card CMVS is practically perfect, Arcade board allows for free play - easiest to throw BIOS chip in

c. Problems / Traps
- Home Systems: Pirate Cart issues seem on the rise, many carts are now triple figure prices. Various Boards make upgrading / mods an issue
- Home CD System: Only the middle version is stable (Japan had 3 units, US Version is the 'middle' one), laser assembly a tad fragile. Only about half the software library.
- Consolized Arcade MVS: Arcade carts insanely easy to bootleg, steep buy-in, do-it-yourself'ers need to be sure motherboard is okay

Just my opinion, but of the three, I prefer the Consolized MVS unit myself. You depending on the board type (1 slot, 2 slot, etc) and features (UNIBIOS, AV, Component, VGA, etc) the price to make one / buy one from someone can go between $200 to $400. I personally own a $400 model that was assembled by jammanationx.com and it's glorious. It's a 2 Slot with Memory Card reader, Unibios, AV, S-Video, and Component Out. The average arcade cart is about $30 to 40, and it's the real deal. The UNIBIOS makes many of the harder games finally fun to play (Invincibility on Magician Lord?! YES PLEASE).

The CD Deck, with it's flaws, has its own advantages too. While it's true there are some terrible load times in some games, so long as it' snot a fighting game the rest are actually pretty dam impressive. Many of the original releases only load once in the beginning, and then that's it. Many of the releases will feature redone soundtracks, or be exclusive to the system (Iron Clad, Samurai Shodown RPG, etc). But again, only about half the library is present.


Great summary Dangerboy. Yeah the consolized MVS is best bang for buck for sure. Also depending on how your consolized MVS is built and what board it's based on, it can be a snap to upgrade the custom universe bios to newer versions.

On a AES system you can also modify it with a universe bios and modify the video outputs. There are also factory 21pin analog RGB cables. I've got a stock one and one that's heavily modified. Both can be hooked up to my RGB CRT monitors. The main drawback of the AES are the triple to four digit priced titles once you've exhausted all the "cheap" games.

Some of the arranged soundtracks on the NeoCD are absolutely fantastic, but load times are incredibly painful on the later gen games. The double speed CDZ doesn't help much and it's prone to problems. The best as mentioned above is the second generation top-loader. It's built like a tank. However these days I just keep the NeoCD for novelty and nostalgia. I prefer to game on AES or on my NeoGeo cabinets with MVS carts.

Have you considered a US version NeoGeo "Big Red" arcade machine? Sometimes you can find those for even less than a consolized MVS. If you want something a little smaller, you can try to get a japanese NeoGeo arcade cabinet. Although they may a little harder to find and much more expensive depending on your area.

.

[Emperor Megas]

2 slots...for what, exactly? Memory Card CMVS? What's that mean? Double Speed CDZ, huh? And BIOS chips (for a game system), what's the deal with that? :confused:

I'm sorry, this is the sort of stuff that I run into that always trips me up (remember, I'm a 10 year old). Neo Geo seems like it might be a little too complicated for a casual gamer like me to get into. I REALLY appreciate all the help and replies so far though.

[LimitedEditionMuseum]

I'm 37 and it confuses me also. I notice that with Neo collectors, they get into the system specs and programs, that's when it gets confusing.

[Aussie2B]

To break it down to the basics, the MVS is the "Multi Video System". This is the arcade format. The "Multi" part refers to how, unlike many other arcade games, the board itself isn't a single unique game. The MVS was built like a home console, so that arcade owners could simply buy new cartridges for the cabinet, swap an old game out for the new one, and, bam, a new game running on the same old cabinet. So when you hear "1-slot", "2-slot", "4-slot", or "6-slot", it refers to how many cartridge slots the board contains. While boards with additional slots were more expensive, it gave arcade owners more bang for their buck because they could have more than one game available per cabinet. Then a player can simply press a button to swap between games.

"AES" is the "Advanced Entertainment System". This is the home console version of the MVS, designed to be sold to regular consumers rather than arcade owners, but the games are literally exactly the same.

The Neo CD is its own animal. It's just a home console from SNK that happens to be dominated by ports of Neo Geo games. Being ports, they're not the exact same games, so if you want to go this route, you could just as well get ports of these games on Saturn, Dreamcast, PS2, etc. Although, since its SNK's own system, the ports are pretty good, better than many on other systems. Like many other home consoles, there are different models of the Neo CD, some more reliable than others, and the speed refers to the spin speed, which affects how fast the games load.

When you see "CMVS", that refers to a consolized MVS. As an arcade format designed to be contained in a cabinet, it obviously requires some finagling for normal gamers like us to use an arcade board like our home consoles, unless we use the entire arcade cabinet like intended. Many gamers instead like to "consolize" an MVS board. It's especially friendly to this. The carts are the key part to that, but it also has other console-like features, such as a memory card slot and controller ports. So really it's just a matter of supplying it power, converting the video and audio output into something that can be hooked up to and played on a television, adding basic console functions like an on/off switch, reset, etc., and usually some kind of housing or cosmetic adjustments to keep it clean and make it less unwieldy to transport. Some people go the DIY route, others pay a good amount to get the people who are really talented at this stuff to make a polished final product for them.

Unibios aren't a necessity, but they're a very nice addition to a consolized MVS. They allow you to switch between MVS and console mode (so you can play your MVS games exactly as they are on an AES) and change a whole bunch of other settings, including adding cheats.

If you want to get into Neo Geo, you can't really approach it with a "Pull it out the box and start playing" mentality, not unless you go with the Neo CD. MVS obviously takes work to get going (outside of owning a full cabinet), whether its your own work or paying somebody else, and even most AES owners tinker with things. If you go AES, expect pretty lousy audio and video output. A large percentage of AES owners get their systems modified. Also expect a very limited game selection because outside of the early releases, most are very, very expensive and rare. That's why a lot of AES owners also get converters in order to play MVS carts. MVS carts aren't exactly cheap either, not like your average game on a Nintendo/Sega/Sony/etc. home console, but they'll seem very cheap in comparison to AES. There are also MVS games that never made it to AES. Keep in mind, you won't find typical packaging for MVS games. They were never meant for normal consumers, so even if you get a "full kit", don't expect a case and manual. A kit includes a plain cardboard box with a sticker on it and various materials for the arcade owner such as the marquee, info on the dipswitch settings, and the like. It's not particularly exciting stuff in my opinion (especially if you don't have a cabinet to put the materials in), and since arcade owners often threw away these materials eventually, full kits are significantly more expensive than the carts alone. There is nothing wrong with a collection of bare MVS carts, but if you're not into that, keep in mind the cost of custom packaging if you go that route. A lot of people buy "shockboxes" for their MVS carts. These are produced by prominent fans in the Neo Geo collecting community. The basically mimic AES cases, more or less, and you can even get inserts that look very similar to the AES designs (but there is a wide variety of designs out there). Between the cost of the plastic case itself, the insert, and shipping, you can be looking at around 15 bucks for a custom case. For the cheapest MVS games, you can get the carts for around that much, maybe less, so outfitting a game with a custom case can double the investment you made into some games. This is all completely optional, of course, but shockboxes are definitely very attractive and help keep MVS carts clean.

Okay, that's a whole lot of stuff right there. Hopefully that explains things in layman terms pretty well.

[LimitedEditionMuseum]

That's everything:.....you are awesome.

[Emperor Megas]

Wow, Aussie2B, THANK YOU! Thanks to everyone, but a HUGE thanks to you especially. That was as comprehensive as I've ever gotten in a single post about the Neo Geo, and I definitely feel like I understand this whole thing a LOT more now.

Just a few more questions though. I saw mention of 'memory cards'. Are they just basic memory cards that store high score data, or do they have addition functions, like RAM expansion? And if I wanted to get a hold on one of these 'CMVS' systems, what are some reputable places to get a hold of one? I'm not really into tinkering with shit and would rather just pay someone for anything that needs to be done.

I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate you all breaking this shit down for me. :)

[Edmond Dantes]

The way I've heard it, memory cards are just for saving high scores and aren't really necessary.

[tomwaits]

Lots of great info here so far... just a couple of comments.

The Neo Geo CD is the same basic hardware design as the MVS & AES. The only 'port' aspects are compensating for the reduced memory by requiring multiple loads during larger games, and streaming the upgraded soundtracks from the CD. The NGCD is running original Neo Geo program code, not code re-writes like the ports to other consoles.


There are actually only a couple of games that save high scores to memory cards. The memory cards were intended to save game progress and carry game progress between home consoles and arcades. Game saves can also enable level select for any levels that you've beaten, access hidden characters that you've unlocked, etc.

High scores are stored within the console/arcade mobo memory. Arcade mobos only save high scores for the last 8 carts that were played... not sure how many high score saves fit into console memory.

[Dangerboy]

Memory Card
Just like any system, the Memory Card is for saving progress (even in fighting games, save at the last boss? Yes please), high scores, stats, teams, etc. If you like, on a MVS you can even have it save machine data (like tokens used, continues used, etc).

Also of note: The arcade and home system use the same card. You could save your progress on your MVS and then load it up on a friend's home unit.

Slots
Whenever you see "# slot", we're referencing the actual number of games that an arcade motherboard can support. SNK manufactured various boards and variants of said board that supported 1, 2, 4, and 6 games all at once. Meaning you could have up to 6 games already plugged in at once, and you just use a button to select between them. The 4 and 6 slots have a shady history with issues, better to stick with the 1 or 2 slot.

My CMVS is a 2 Slot (i.e. 2 Games at once) with the Memory Card reader built in. I can not praise this board version enough. It's like having an uber-home console.

As I mentioned, for the CMVS, Jamma Nation X (jammanationx.com) did wonders on mine. There are other sites that do a wee bit more fancier stuff, but for your 'bread and butter' edition CMVS, Jamma Nation X is the guy.