PlayStation Boss Defends Vita, Slams Social Gaming [Slashdot]

[DP ServBot]

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donniebaseball23 writes "Sony Computer Entertainment America boss Jack Tretton has come out swinging to defend the lackluster response the games industry has seen with the PS Vita. He deemed the sales level for the portable as 'acceptable' so far, and he brushed off any notion that social and free-to-play games are putting huge pressure on the portable and dedicated consoles market. 'I think the opportunity to be in the console business is greater than ever before,' he told GamesIndustry International. '[Social and free-to-play] is a business I think a lot of companies are learning is difficult to sustain for the long term. It's an adjunct or it's an add-on, but it's not where gaming is headed. It's an additive diversion. There's a place for social and freemium, but it's not going to replace the business models that are out there.'"The company is having a hard time getting third-party developers interested in the Vita platform.http://a.fsdn.com/sd/twitter_icon_large.png (http://twitter.com/home?status=PlayStation+Boss+Defends+Vita%2C+Slams +Social+Gaming%3A+http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2FQmuq7q)htt p://a.fsdn.com/sd/facebook_icon_large.png (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgames.slashdot.org%2Fsto ry%2F12%2F08%2F10%2F2016255%2Fplaystation-boss-defends-vita-slams-social-gaming%3Futm_source%3Dslashdot%26utm_medium%3Dface book)http://www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png (http://plus.google.com/share?url=http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/08/10/2016255/playstation-boss-defends-vita-slams-social-gaming?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=googleplus)

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[Griking]

Most developers hope that their new console's sales are better than 'acceptable'

Also he's delusional if he doesn't think that casual gaming on phones and tablets aren't eating away at dedicated portable game system sales

[duffmanth]

The Vita isn't selling well simply because there aren't enough compelling games yet to justify spending $250-300 on it. I hope social and mobile games continue to thrive and hopefully it'll mean console and handheld games will come down in price? Although that might be wishful thinking, as you can't compare $60 console titles to 99 cent mobile games.

[kedawa]

That's true, but there are $5 iOS games that put many full priced 3DS/Vita games to shame.

[BetaWolf47]

That's true, but there are $5 iOS games that put many full priced 3DS/Vita games to shame.
That's factoring in bad 3DS and Vita games though. There's no comparison between a AAA 3DS/Vita game and a AAA mobile game.

[kedawa]

Well, no, but that would be like comparing fairies to unicorns.

[SpaceHarrier]

Dinosaurs Dismiss Approaching Asteroid, Claim Nuclear Winter 'Pseudoscience' [Jurasstiq]

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

That's factoring in bad 3DS and Vita games though. There's no comparison between a AAA 3DS/Vita game and a AAA mobile game.

Maybe not now, but just because it isn't the standard doesnt mean it cant happen.

The line between the two gets closer every day IMO.

[RCM]

I love the Vita hardware, but the price is too high and the games aren't there. It's nice Tretton is putting on a brave face but both Sony and Nintendo are losing ground to Apple and Google. iPad sold 17.2 million units in Q1'12 alone, which is a few million units shy of Sony and Nintendo's current handheld combined lifetime total.

There's nothing "acceptable" about the old model of doing business in this brave new consumer-friendly (in terms of game pricing) world. And if you think most mobile games suck or are shallow you just haven't been paying attention. There's some great stuff out there.

[Graham Mitchell]

I love the Vita hardware, but the price is too high and the games aren't there. It's nice Tretton is putting on a brave face but both Sony and Nintendo are losing ground to Apple and Google. iPad sold 17.2 million units in Q1'12 alone, which is a few million units shy of Sony and Nintendo's current handheld combined lifetime total.

There's nothing "acceptable" about the old model of doing business in this brave new consumer-friendly (in terms of game pricing) world. And if you think most mobile games suck or are shallow you just haven't been paying attention. There's some great stuff out there.

Lack of buttons is a serious issue for me. Playing something on the level of gravity rush with touchscreen only controls would be horrible. When you don't have the proprioceptive feedback that the buttons or stick provides, accuracy is a real problem.

I have street fighter 4, fix it Felix jr, and PAC man c.e. on my iPhone and they're basically unplayable.

I am not satisfied with angry birds or card games. That maybe okay for kids who dont know any better, but if you want an experience with more depth, a vita Ir a 3ds is a good way to go. I'm sure the iPad has some decent stuff with a iCade, and I know some android tablets have USB ports that support controllers, but that stuff is WAY more expensive than a dedicated portable console. For me, sony and Nintendo are still the kings for portable gaming.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.135206,-118.147336

[Bojay1997]

I love the Vita hardware, but the price is too high and the games aren't there. It's nice Tretton is putting on a brave face but both Sony and Nintendo are losing ground to Apple and Google. iPad sold 17.2 million units in Q1'12 alone, which is a few million units shy of Sony and Nintendo's current handheld combined lifetime total.

There's nothing "acceptable" about the old model of doing business in this brave new consumer-friendly (in terms of game pricing) world. And if you think most mobile games suck or are shallow you just haven't been paying attention. There's some great stuff out there.

While I agree that there are some really fun mobile and tablet games, I have yet to find any game on iOS or Android that comes close to the depth or complexity of a well done game on the PSP, Vita, DS or 3DS. Are there specific games you're talking about here? Similarly, I would assume you're aware that the vast majority of developers don't make money on their iOS and Android games, even if they sell what would be considered great numbers for a console or handheld game, so what's the point of having a consumer friendly pricing model if it means you end up in bankruptcy?

[RCM]

While I agree that there are some really fun mobile and tablet games, I have yet to find any game on iOS or Android that comes close to the depth or complexity of a well done game on the PSP, Vita, DS or 3DS. Are there specific games you're talking about here? Similarly, I would assume you're aware that the vast majority of developers don't make money on their iOS and Android games, even if they sell what would be considered great numbers for a console or handheld game, so what's the point of having a consumer friendly pricing model if it means you end up in bankruptcy?

I wasn't stating mobile app games have more depth vs. traditional handheld games. However, there seems to be a general misconception from the traditional core audience that mobile app games are junk. I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment.

Development on any platform is a gamble, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong or out of the ballpark, but a vast majority (90%?) of traditional product doesn't make its money back either. I view it as a pricing issue on the traditional side and a discovery issue for mobile.

[Bojay1997]

I wasn't stating mobile app games have more depth vs. traditional handheld games. However, there seems to be a general misconception from the traditional core audience that mobile app games are junk. I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment.

Development on any platform is a gamble, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong or out of the ballpark, but a vast majority (90%?) of traditional product doesn't make its money back either. I view it as a pricing issue on the traditional side and a discovery issue for mobile.

I don't think I've seen much of that misconception, at least not here or on other gaming boards I frequent. The most common complaints I have seen are a lack of good, accurate control schemes for mobile devices (i.e. the lack of buttons and thumbstick or some other method of entering high precision, high speed commands) and a lack of depth such that very few mobile games can hold their attention for the hours and hours that a really well done Vita or 3DS game can. I think those two criticisms are valid and while I enjoy a number of mobile games, including some recent ones that were once computer or arcade games like The Act or the different point and click adventure games that have been converted, I'm still not seeing the same kind of deep, compelling gameplay that would entice me to sit playing one game for 1-2 hours at a stretch like I might with a Vita or 3DS. Can that change? Absolutely, as the current generation of tablets in particular is more than capable of handling complex gameplay. Will it change? I don't know, but I certainly don't think the solution is for developers and publishers to try and cut game budgets to try and compete head to head with the $1-$5 casual game market on mobile phones.

[kedawa]

Virtual dpads and buttons are indeed garbage, but there are other control schemes that work very well on touchscreen/gyro devices.
The latest Super Monkey Ball for iOS is possibly the best in the series, and there are many shmups that have excellent touch controls.

[Rob2600]

The iPad is outselling the 3DS, but they're targeting two different markets that *happen* to have a tiny bit of overlap.

The truth is, in its own market (traditional portable game consoles), the 3DS is selling extremely well. Saying its being outsold by the iPad is like saying toasters outsell pizza ovens. They both cook food, but they're aimed at two different markets. And both have their appropriate sales figures. Just because 15 million people bought toasters last quarter, that doesn't mean pizza ovens are going away. In fact, 2 million pizza ovens sold in a quarter is phenomenal for that particular market.

Anyway, 3DS sales figures are very strong for the traditional portable video game market...and despite some small overlap, the 3DS and iPad can (and do) coexist.

As long as Nintendo continues to release hardware with physical controls and its first-party titles (and Apple doesn't), Nintendo will be fine.

[BricatSegaFan]

There is no such thing as games on phones or tablets, those are called distractions. That being said, portable gaming is a mere shadow of its self. Remember the Sega nomad or the turbo express? That was insane! You cold literally take the home versions on the go! No other systems have done that. Ps vita is not an example, a good example would be if you had a portable game system that has the exact same hardware as the ps3 bluray drive and all that can be played on the go.

I digress though, the best time for portable gaming was in the 90s :)

[Gameguy]

I digress though, the best time for gaming was in the 90s :)
Fixed.

[Press_Start]

The truth is, in its own market (traditional portable game consoles), the 3DS is selling extremely well. Saying its being outsold by the iPad is like saying toasters outsell pizza ovens. They both cook food, but they're aimed at two different markets. And both have their appropriate sales figures. Just because 15 million people bought toasters last quarter, that doesn't mean pizza ovens are going away. In fact, 2 million pizza ovens sold in a quarter is phenomenal for that particular market.

Anyway, 3DS sales figures are very strong for the traditional portable video game market...and despite some small overlap, the 3DS and iPad can (and do) coexist.


QFT, Rob.

Any gamer thinking there's a Braveheart epic-scale Mike Tyson ear-biting grudge match taking place between these two (blue facepaint, plaid manskirts and all) are essentially looking for a cockfight with no chickens. Nintendo isn't purposely taking money away from Apple. Apple isn't purposely taking money away from Nintendo. It's a simple fact immediately obvious by the handheld products they sell. Gaming on 3DS is a clear necessity. On iPad, it's a nice bonus as you're watching the Mel Gibson movie marathon on Netflix while commenting your FB status on how you're tweeting the pic of Mr. Mumbles reenacting every Dr. Evil scenes from all three Austin Power movies. Nothing more needs to be said than that.

[RCM]

The iPad is outselling the 3DS, but they're targeting two different markets that *happen* to have a tiny bit of overlap.

The truth is, in its own market (traditional portable game consoles), the 3DS is selling extremely well. Saying its being outsold by the iPad is like saying toasters outsell pizza ovens. They both cook food, but they're aimed at two different markets. And both have their appropriate sales figures. Just because 15 million people bought toasters last quarter, that doesn't mean pizza ovens are going away. In fact, 2 million pizza ovens sold in a quarter is phenomenal for that particular market.

Anyway, 3DS sales figures are very strong for the traditional portable video game market...and despite some small overlap, the 3DS and iPad can (and do) coexist.

As long as Nintendo continues to release hardware with physical controls and its first-party titles (and Apple doesn't), Nintendo will be fine.

Which market is Nintendo going after and which is Apple going after? And how do you define "small overlap"? If you look at total app use and consumption on iOS you'll see the most popular/most downloaded are video games. Furthermore, Epic, Activision, and Namco were showing off games at the new iPad unveil and Apple's CEO Tim Cook proclaimed it's a "graphics powerhouse." Both Apple and Google understand their machines are being used for games and are actively appealing to people who play games. There's more "overlap" than you think.

[BricatSegaFan]

Which market is Nintendo going after and which is Apple going after? And how do you define "small overlap"? If you look at total app use and consumption on iOS you'll see the most popular/most downloaded are video games. Furthermore, Epic, Activision, and Namco were showing off games at the new iPad unveil and Apple's CEO Tim Cook proclaimed it's a "graphics powerhouse." Both Apple and Google understand their machines are being used for games and are actively appealing to people who play games. There's more "overlap" than you think.

But ipad does not have BLAST PROCESSING!!

[G-Boobie]

But ipad does not have BLAST PROCESSING!!

Sure it does. There are at least three Sonic the Hedgehog games on the app store.

If you prefer, we can say that the iPad has an equal amount of blast processing to the Genesis/Megadrive.

It may not have much in the way of games yet, but I love my Vita. Gravity Rush and Sound Shapes alone justify the purchase for me. In all probability, it'll go down in history as something of a failure, but then again, so did the Dreamcast and Turbo Duo. Are there proprietary games on the system worth playing? Yes? Then who cares how well it does, unless you're a stockholder or worry too much about what "your hardware says about you as a person".

[Press_Start]

Which market is Nintendo going after and which is Apple going after? And how do you define "small overlap"? If you look at total app use and consumption on iOS you'll see the most popular/most downloaded are video games. Furthermore, Epic, Activision, and Namco were showing off games at the new iPad unveil and Apple's CEO Tim Cook proclaimed it's a "graphics powerhouse."

Doom, Duke Nukem, Quake, Half-Life, Diablo, Starcraft, Team Fortress and jeez how many billions of worldwide subscriptions does WoW have now, huh? Did PC gaming kill off Nintendo, Playstation, or Xbox? No.


Both Apple and Google understand their machines are being used for games and are actively appealing to people who play games. There's more "overlap" than you think.

Good, then release their own brand of game-dedicated Xbox handheld, till then I won't believe for a second Google or Apple are seriously invested in competing against Nintendo.

[Bojay1997]

QFT, Rob.

Any gamer thinking there's a Braveheart epic-scale Mike Tyson ear-biting grudge match taking place between these two (blue facepaint, plaid manskirts and all) are essentially looking for a cockfight with no chickens. Nintendo isn't purposely taking money away from Apple. Apple isn't purposely taking money away from Nintendo. It's a simple fact immediately obvious by the handheld products they sell. Gaming on 3DS is a clear necessity. On iPad, it's a nice bonus as you're watching the Mel Gibson movie marathon on Netflix while commenting your FB status on how you're tweeting the pic of Mr. Mumbles reenacting every Dr. Evil scenes from all three Austin Power movies. Nothing more needs to be said than that.

Although I don't think Sony and Nintendo are in a life and death struggle for survival with Apple and Google just yet, I think you have grossly underestimated the impact cheap mobile gaming has on handheld game and hardware sales. I know plenty of people who bought a PSP or a DS and who haven't yet upgraded to the Vita or the 3DS simply because they are spending more time gaming on their tablets or iPhones or Android phones. In addition, I know many parents who have purchased smartphones for their 8-12 year old kids, so many of those kids are gaming on their phones and have less interest in the Vita or 3DS. As mobile devices get more and more powerful, the advantage Nintendo and Sony will have with dedicated gaming devices is going to get narrower and narrower. Will it kill handheld dedicated gaming completely? I don't know, but as Kodak and many other companies learned the hard way, specializing in an older way of doing something that can be done almost as well for much cheaper is a diffcult business model to maintain.

[RCM]

Doom, Duke Nukem, Quake, Half-Life, Diablo, Starcraft, Team Fortress and jeez how many billions of worldwide subscriptions does WoW have now, huh? Did PC gaming kill off Nintendo, Playstation, or Xbox? No.

And?


Good, then release their own brand of game-dedicated Xbox handheld, till then I won't believe for a second Google or Apple are seriously invested in competing against Nintendo.

Are multipurpose devices like iPad excluded from competing with more game-centric handhelds 'cause they're not exactly the same? That's what it sounds like you're saying. If that's the case, should PS Vita compete for the same market share as 3DS?

You don't have to believe it, but industry members and analysts would disagree that they aren't competing for at least some of the same market share. Don't stop (not) believing, man!

[Flashback2012]

Dinosaurs Dismiss Approaching Asteroid, Claim Nuclear Winter 'Pseudoscience' [Jurasstiq]

LOL LOL LOL

Not sure what I can really add to the conversation. I'm not surprised that Tretton is defending his product nor do I think he's not far off the mark saying the social/freemium games are cutting into his sales/profits. I'm sure there is some loss that can be chalked up to Angry Birds and Farmville but I imagine it's other factors such as inflation, rates of exchange, a sluggish economy worldwide, system/software pricing, a small software library, and half a dozen other things that are really hampering the Vita selling like gangbusters.

For me personally, I have far too many other systems I'm buying for and the Vita is just not in the cards right now. My personal reason is system/software pricing. I just can't bring myself to pay $40 for portable gaming, no matter how close they get it to consoles. To that extent, I have a hard time paying that much for console games. Color me a cheapskate I guess. :ass:

[Rob2600]

you have grossly underestimated the impact cheap mobile gaming has on handheld game and hardware sales. I know plenty of people who bought a PSP or a DS and who haven't yet upgraded to the Vita or the 3DS simply because they are spending more time gaming on their tablets or iPhones or Android phones.

In theory, you are correct. However in reality, we're still seeing very strong 3DS sales. In fact, even with supposed competition from the iPad and Android tablets, more people have bought a 3DS during its first 19 months on the market vs the original DS (and that was *without* competition from tablets!). Just because the Vita is flopping right now, that doesn't discount the 3DS's success. 21 million units in 19 months might pale in comparison to iPad sales figures, but historically for the portable gaming market, it's fantastic.

Maybe instead of hurting 3DS sales, the iPad could actually be *helping*. Perhaps parents would rather buy their children a $180 3DS instead of a $500 iPad.

[RCM]

In theory, you are correct. However in reality, we're still seeing very strong 3DS sales. In fact, even with supposed competition from the iPad and Android tablets, more people have bought a 3DS during its first 19 months on the market vs the original DS (and that was *without* competition from tablets!). Just because the Vita is flopping right now, that doesn't discount the 3DS's success. 21 million units in 19 months might pale in comparison to iPad sales figures, but historically for the portable gaming market, it's fantastic.

Maybe instead of hurting 3DS sales, the iPad could actually be *helping*. Perhaps parents would rather buy their children a $180 3DS instead of a $500 iPad.

If you look at DS sales per year last decade you'll notice its first year is its weakest. They also didn't substantially cut the price of DS in its first year either. It's absolutely true 3DS outsold DS in its first year, but that's masking a bigger problem.

Also, Nintendo's head honcho paints a worrying picture of 3DS performance in the US and Europe: http://www.vg247.com/2012/07/04/3ds-sales-currently-weak-in-europe-and-na-nintendo-president/.

[BydoEmpire]

I digress though, the best time for gaming was in the 80s :)


fixed

Fixed for real this time.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I know plenty of people who bought a PSP or a DS and who haven't yet upgraded to the Vita or the 3DS simply because they are spending more time gaming on their tablets or iPhones or Android phones.

I bought a 3DS and Vita (both at launch) and I'm spending about 90% of my mobile gaming time on my iPad and iPhone.

Doesn't mean that I don't like 3DS or Vita, I've supported software sales on both systems both at brick and mortar and their digital marketplaces, but when you have a marketplace on iOS that delivers IMO equivalency (games of similar production value/entertainment quality) at a lower price ($1-$10 average on iOS vs. $30-$40 average on 3DS and Vita) as well as FREE content on a weekly basis ... I find that it's really hard to pull myself away from it.

And the button argument is lost on me. There are varying degrees of how well joystick and button touch controls are engineered and when they're passable I'm completely adaptable to the experience, also, with a rise in the popularity of the devices with a physical controller wanting crowd, we're seeing more devices (iControlPad, iCade, etc.) that handle that need in the market.