Gonna do it and finish SMB (all-stars edition)

[kainemaxwell]

Inspired by the "beat SMB2 for the first time" thread gonna spend some time with my SMB All-Stars rom and finish the first SMB. Gonna go easy on any save states and sit back and enjoy this one. Have finished SMB3 when I was younger, never finished SMB2 either, lol. Think I finished SMW but can't remember.

[djshok]

Good luck finishing Lost Levels.

[kainemaxwell]

Good luck finishing Lost Levels.

Actually meant SMB1. SMB2 as in the one with Wart and co, not Lost Levels. ^^

[treismac]

I went ahead and beat SMB 2 (USA) the other day on my All-Stars cart. I've never beat SMB 3 on it, though. Just might do that tonight after reading some Catcher in the Rye.

[jperryss]

Good luck finishing Lost Levels.

Have you (or anyone else here) played through both SMB2j and the Lost Levels version? Reason I ask is because Lost Levels was hard, yes. But I've cleared it several times, including the bonus worlds. I would put it slightly under CV3 or Blaster Master in overall difficulty.

But I've seen 2j on a few "most difficult games" lists and compared to the likes of Ghosts n Goblins, Holy Diver, etc. To me those two are at a whole 'nother level (I can't get past level 3 in either).

Is LL significantly easier that 2j? I'd like to know if there are any differences between 2j and LL, and I'd love to play 2j on original HW if I could without spending a fortune on a repro.

[FoxNtd]

Is LL significantly easier that 2j?

YES. MUCH EASIER.

Real SMB2: You get 3 lives. If you get a game over, you start at the first level of the world you died on. For example if you get game over on 5-4, you go back to 5-1. So you need to at least be able to clear a whole world with 3 lives plus any 1UPs you might get on the way to clear the world or you can't advance in the game. Furthermore, you must win without using warps to reach Fantasy World (World 9). Now for the fun part: you need to clear the game 8 times before you can access the bonus worlds. Your number of clears is recorded to disk so once you gain access to bonus worlds, you don't lose it. Hold A at the title screen and press start to begin the game on World A instead of 1. The poison mushroom looks similar to the regular one.

SFC version: You get 5 lives per continue instead of 3. There is no punishment for game over, you respawn on the same exact stage no matter what. Aside from the score counter resetting upon game over, 1UPs have no meaning. You can keep dying and dying over and over until you give up or win. Obviously the difficulty bar has dropped over this. EDIT: Others confirm you still need to play warpless to see World 9 or it is skipped. You will advance into the bonus worlds after World 9 (or 8 if you used a warp.) The requirements to reach these special worlds were completely removed. All the Mario games on this release have a save feature that preserves your progress in the game, so you don't even have to win the game in one session like you would on FC/FDS. The poison mushroom has a completely different sprite that makes it impossible to mistake it for the regular mushroom.

EDIT: SFC Super Mario Collection and USA SNES Super Mario All-Stars are the same.

Some minor differences I know about... I heard the behavior of Koopa in the bonus worlds does not match the original SMB2. I haven't confirmed this yet. The 1UP glitch has been fixed on the SFC version. (If you get a 1UP after getting 127 lives, the counter doesn't roll over into negatives, so you won't get game over on the next death. This was a bug inherited from SMB1.)

The disappearing platform glitch was NOT fixed, it can still occur on both versions.

I have never seen the Famicom Mini re-release on GBA so I have no idea what might have been altered.

The only reason I know so much about SMB2 is because I play the shit out of it as I am aiming for a no warp/mushroom/death run and I'm close. (1 Death run achieved so far.) Almost there... :)

Regarding playing SMB2 on original hardware, go for it. FDS has a handful of games that are great that justify owning one and learning to fix it when the time comes for that. SMB2 is one of the goodies for the system. :)

[jperryss]

Thanks Fox for the very thorough and detailed reply! Interesting about all the requirements being removed for the SNES/SFC version, I really though the play-through-all-levels-with-no-warps rule was still in effect.

Did you notice if the physics are any different?

I might need to keep a better eye out for this one.



Regarding playing SMB2 on original hardware, go for it. FDS has a handful of games that are great that justify owning one and learning to fix it when the time comes for that. SMB2 is one of the goodies for the system. :)

I didn't feel like spending $40-50 on a repro US cart, what makes you think I'll spend $100 for a FDS combo or Twin Famicom or whatever, PLUS another $20-$30 for the game itself? :D

Besides, I've run out of inputs on the TV.

[FoxNtd]

Did you notice if the physics are any different?

I didn't want to bring it up because this is one thing that drives me nuts. I have a suspicion there is something different about it. I swear it just doesn't feel right. Some swear the physics are identical. I have no proof of it either way. I can just say I really dislike the SFC version. :roll:




I didn't feel like spending $40-50 on a repro US cart, what makes you think I'll spend $100 for a FDS combo or Twin Famicom or whatever, PLUS another $20-$30 for the game itself? :D

Besides, I've run out of inputs on the TV.

Well, that's $40-50 on just one game, one that isn't even real. On the other hand, FDS (or Twin) gives you the ability to play a whole bunch of different games. The system connects to the Famicom and needs its own power connection (AC adapter or 6 C batteries) but regarding controllers and video output, all of that is still run through the Famicom.

Maybe the GBA port is for you? :)

[Jorpho]

Obviously the difficulty bar has dropped over this. No matter how the game is played, you will advance to World 9 after 8. You will advance into the bonus worlds after World 9.Huh? I remember reading in Nintendo Power back in the day that you could only go to World 9 if you finished the game without warping, and that you would go to World A after World 8 otherwise. I guess they changed that after release?

Apparently the jumping physics is slightly bugged in All-Stars. There's a patch (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/167/) to fix it if you're using an emulator or flashcart.

[treismac]

I didn't want to bring [the physics] up because this is one thing that drives me nuts. I have a suspicion there is something different about it. I swear it just doesn't feel right. Some swear the physics are identical. I have no proof of it either way. I can just say I really dislike the SFC version. :roll:

I'll back this as well. The physics are off in All-Stars, at least in the original Super Mario Bros., which I play religiously. It isn't discernible to the naked eye, but you can feel the difference if you are familiar with the original NES game.

[jperryss]

Well, that's $40-50 on just one game, one that isn't even real. On the other hand, FDS (or Twin) gives you the ability to play a whole bunch of different games. The system connects to the Famicom and needs its own power connection (AC adapter or 6 C batteries) but regarding controllers and video output, all of that is still run through the Famicom.

Maybe the GBA port is for you? :)

My thing is that I don't have the space (or money) to start collecting for another system right now.

And the GBA port isn't really original hardware.

I'm just gonna hold out for a good price on a repro. I'm bound to come across one eventually.

[Aussie2B]

No matter how the game is played, you will advance to World 9 after 8. You will advance into the bonus worlds after World 9. The requirements to reach these special worlds were completely removed.

No, the requirement to access World 9 is still in All-Stars. Nintendo Power even had a giveaway where if you sent a photograph showing that you reached World 9 (and thus didn't warp through the game at all), they'd send you a badge as a reward.

I think that same issue also said something about some requirement involving not getting a Game Over. Like I think if you get a Game Over in World 9, you won't be able to access the rest of it? Something like that, I can't remember exactly (I read the issue a few months ago). So there is some benefit to avoiding a Game Over. The point is kinda moot, though, because you can rack up a ton of lives at the very beginning of the game, and, with All-Stars, you can return to that stage and get more whenever you want. Either way, though, the game is still quite difficult to complete, even with unlimited tries.

As for the physics, it is different, but I think only SMB and the Lost Levels are different. I think SMB2 and SMB3 are the same? Maybe it was intentional, maybe not, but I wouldn't say it's bad. It's just very slightly different, and the only reason people complain is because they got so used to the original NES versions. In the grand scheme of things, they still have incredibly solid, tight physics as far as platformers go. Considering that these games are remakes and not ports, I think it's perfectly acceptable for them to have slight differences in physics, just as there are differences in the graphics, sound, etc. We all know there are plenty of remakes out there that aren't remotely as faithful as those in Super Mario All-Stars.

[FoxNtd]

Thanks for the correction. I hadn't personally played SMB2 on the SFC port in many years, and all the plays of it I have seen, I never noticed the World 9 restriction/skip occur. I've edited my previous post to account for this.

This reminds me that on the original you are prompted "Let's try Fantasy World for one game" or something, meaning you get only 1 life. (You can gain 1UPs, but once you get game over, you are declared a super player and "we hope to see you again, Mario Staff" message.) I don't know what happens on the port in World 9 if you get game over. One of you guys can fill that in for me. :) World 9 is an infinite loop on FDS. That is, if you clear 9-4, you return to 9-1. You play until you shut it off or get game over. On SFC you advance to World A. (I assume there are no exceptions to this?) I don't recall if you are prompted with a message and have your 1UP count reduced to 1. I'm guessing no because I don't remember seeing this.

Mario Staff also provided other messages to you. From my knowledge the sequel was a dedication to the fans of the original game. The artwork has a badge next to Mario's face that says (in English) "FOR SUPER PLAYERS". The game is based upon the same game engine as SMB1 and is deliberately more difficult. They even added the poison mushroom and changed the physics for Luigi so you can experience the game a little differently. The manual for the FDS version includes a letter from Mario Staff to the player; I read it a while ago and I remember the letter talking about the introduction of the poison mushroom. I have to re-read it to see what else they said. If someone is seriously interested in this letter, I could post it, but it's probably on the Internet somewhere already. =P

World 9-4 is literally a thank you note from Mario Staff. You swim by blocks that read アリガトウ！ which is Japanese Katakana for "arigatou" (Thank You) :)

EDIT: The jumping physics are different eh? Hmm...

Aussie mentioned SMB3. Apparently the SFC version incorporated the USA damage system. On Famicom SMB3 any hit makes Mario/Luigi small. On overseas versions, you would downgrade. I saw footage from the SFC version showing a hit returning Mario to Big Mario instead of small. I was surprised this difficulty adjustment was absorbed from the overseas version....

[kainemaxwell]

Wow, so Lost Levels was harder in Japan?

Anyhow, been years in the making, but finished SMB1. Had some issues finding the right warp zone to 8 in level 4-2 at first. 8-1 was a monster to get through, seemed like 8-2 and 8-3 were tough, but not AS tough at 8-1. Rarely used save states ^^ Liked the warp pipe idea in 8-4, took awhile to discover the hidden block to the correct warp in the floating pipe. Least the Princess doesn't look like a cross-dresser like in the original.

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, I think the physics are the same, but in terms of other stuff, SMB3 is a weird hodgepodge of things from both the US and Japanese NES versions in both All-Stars and Collection. Like the outline of a suit flying off when you get hit was in All-Stars, even though it wasn't in the NES version of SMB3.

Oh, and congrats, Kaine. :)

[FoxNtd]

Like the outline of a suit flying off when you get hit was in All-Stars, even though it wasn't in the NES version of SMB3.

I never knew about that until I saw it happen. It freaked me out. @_@

[kainemaxwell]

Like the outline of a suit flying off when you get hit was in All-Stars, even though it wasn't in the NES version of SMB3.
Oh, and congrats, Kaine. :)

It's the little things like that which gives these remakes their charm.

[treismac]

Way to go, Kaine! Every retro gamer should beat Super Mario Bros at least once. :D

[Jorpho]

Aussie mentioned SMB3. Apparently the SFC version incorporated the USA damage system. On Famicom SMB3 any hit makes Mario/Luigi small. On overseas versions, you would downgrade. I saw footage from the SFC version showing a hit returning Mario to Big Mario instead of small. I was surprised this difficulty adjustment was absorbed from the overseas version....I was shocked to learn that in Super Mario Advance 2 (the SMW port to GBA) they broke the difficulty such that Mario downgrades when hit.

[Leo_A]

The big physics difference for SMB1 and SMB2J in the All-Stars version is that breaking a block sucks you upwards into the space that the block occupied. The originals didn't do that and it makes a surprising difference in feel.

I prefer the originals for artistic reasons for these two. I thought the graphical updating left a bit to be desired compared to the excellent job they did with SMB2 and SMB3.

I actually prefer the All-Stars version of those other two games. Nintendo did a nearly perfect job updating SMB2 and SMB3 in my eyes.

[TonyTheTiger]

I didn't want to bring it up because this is one thing that drives me nuts. I have a suspicion there is something different about it. I swear it just doesn't feel right. Some swear the physics are identical. I have no proof of it either way. I can just say I really dislike the SFC version. :roll:

The easiest way to tell is to try to haul ass through 4-1. In SMB you can clear the fully raised piranha plants. You can't in All-Stars. It definitely requires an adjustment that SMB2 and 3 don't.


World 9-4 is literally a thank you note from Mario Staff. You swim by blocks that read アリガトウ！ which is Japanese Katakana for "arigatou" (Thank You) :)

That's one fucked up thank you.