Review: New Super Mario Bros. 2 Illustrates Nintendo's Greatest Problem [Slashdot]

[DP ServBot]

http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/ddeIw-F2shNm-JGpEhAGhMXutUY/0/di (http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/ddeIw-F2shNm-JGpEhAGhMXutUY/0/da)
http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/ddeIw-F2shNm-JGpEhAGhMXutUY/1/di (http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/ddeIw-F2shNm-JGpEhAGhMXutUY/1/da)
Jon Brodkin writes "There’s a new Super Mario Bros. game out for the 3DS handheld console. It’s called New Super Mario Bros. 2 and features Mario, Princess Peach, Bowser, and the same fun gameplay you’ve come to expect from Nintendo’s most iconic game series. But this latest adventure stands out by not standing out at all." Read below for the rest of Jon's review.http://a.fsdn.com/sd/twitter_icon_large.png (http://twitter.com/home?status=Review%3A+New+Super+Mario+Bros.+2+Illu strates+Nintendo's+Greatest+Problem%3A+http%3A%2F% 2Fbit.ly%2FORwEAH)http://a.fsdn.com/sd/facebook_icon_large.png (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgames.slashdot.org%2Fsto ry%2F12%2F08%2F20%2F1515258%2Freview-new-super-mario-bros-2-illustrates-nintendos-greatest-problem%3Futm_source%3Dslashdot%26utm_medium%3Dfac ebook)http://www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png (http://plus.google.com/share?url=http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/08/20/1515258/review-new-super-mario-bros-2-illustrates-nintendos-greatest-problem?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=googleplus)

Read more of this story (http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/08/20/1515258/review-new-super-mario-bros-2-illustrates-nintendos-greatest-problem?utm_source=rss1.0moreanon&utm_medium=feed) at Slashdot.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Slashdot/slashdotGames/~4/1H6qWT6wlMw

[Lady Jaye]

Bah, I'm still getting this (preordered from Best Buy because of a $10-off deal dating back to the E3; my copy should arrive tomorrow by the time I'm at work). Mario games are rarely truly bad (not counting CD-i atrocities), and easy, classic gameplay isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Rickstilwell1]

All I can say is that more of the best is never a bad thing. More of the generic is what is bad.

[kainemaxwell]

Why completely ruin what works so well?

[treismac]

Regardless if it is a good Mario game or a bad one, I wish I had a 3ds for this game alone. Like pizza or sex, even lousy Mario is pretty good- excluding the CD-i games like Lady Jaye said, of course.

[kupomogli]

Regardless if it is a good Mario game or a bad one, I wish I had a 3ds for this game alone. Like pizza or sex, even lousy Mario is pretty good- excluding the CD-i games like Lady Jaye said, of course.

Opinion only, but Mario 64 wasn't good.

[Tanooki]

It really just is some attention seeking whining and bitching for the sake of drawing hits to a website. They're not the only one to do it. Another guy gave it an 8, but the review screamed a 5 whining it was just more of the same Mario and that it's overdone and played out daring to say it was a B-team of fools who made it. Thing is there hasn't been another portable New SMB since the DS game like 5 years ago.

For all the time that people release sequels and then get bitched out for making changes and dumbing down stuff or doing bad ideas, Mario is consistent. It's like you can't win either way.

[RCM]

I was really disappointed by New Super Mario Bros. for DS (bought it day one) and barely touched the Wii version. If the 3DS version is more of the same I can understand the backlash. NSMB DS is average and unspectacular, especially in comparison to previous 2D Mario titles.

Nintendo proved a certain amount of people will buy virtually anything with Mario stamped on it with the US version of SMB2, so I can understand why there's interest in this series.

[heybtbm]

I played for ~2 hours last night and really enjoyed it. In all honesty...it 's very similar to the first NSMB. Only this one dumps on the coins. I've racked up 6000 coins so far and have 40+ extra lives. If this game has any criticism it should be for being too easy (I don't really care, but some might). Anyway it's another solid effort from Nintendo.

[kedawa]

All of the NSMB have been disappointing, but the fanboys will buy anything.
Mario Land 3D and the Galaxy games are where it's at.

[Lady Jaye]

I played the first two worlds so far, and I like it. It's not as easy as people say (although it's definitely not brutally difficult like, say, Ninja Gaiden or Mega Man), and the music is not as monotonous as I read it was. The game refers mainly to SMB3 and Super Mario World without being a rehash/remake of those two games. I find it to be an interesting complement to Mario 3D Land.

[Tanooki]

Nintendo proved a certain amount of people will buy virtually anything with Mario stamped on it with the US version of SMB2, so I can understand why there's interest in this series.

Funny you should say that. In the last month Miyamoto did an interview, I think maybe with IGN, not sure, but he was asked his favorite Super Mario game ever that he created and guess what. He couldn't decide. He tied it between SMB1 and SMB2. So like, are you saying that the creator of Mario has no taste either?

[RPG_Fanatic]

I really liked it, even thought it's really easy. I beat it in a day (didn't get everything) and I'm no hardcore gamer so it's great but doesn't last long. Any Mario fan should like it.

[Tanooki]

I haven't played it yet. I just bought a used copy off someone who got it off another person who owed them cash (as he already had a digital copy) for $33 shipped so I'll give it some time in a few days. I'm curious about the whole coin explosion.

I have to admit though as well laid out as these 'new' smb games are I can't quite place it. It almost feels like they just have no soul or something because I have to motivate myself to play them a bit while I can still go back and do a game like SMW which I started to recently on GBA and I enjoy it. It might as well be new as I haven't seriously tried playing it in like 20 years. ;)

I never did finish the New SMB Wii, but the system is at fault as much as the game because I got so fed up with how it has been mistreated, abused, and how ripped off on bad games it has become so being sour on a system really doesn't help. I did finish the old DS game, it was cool, but I really despised them hiding entire worlds of the game without taking the micro mario detour as that was pure bullshit.

[jonebone]

All of the NSMB have been disappointing, but the fanboys will buy anything.
Mario Land 3D and the Galaxy games are where it's at.

NSMB on Wii was amazing. The difficulty actually felt right and the game was the first to incorporate the simultaneous co-op mode. But on DS, they are pathetically easy, like 1 or 2 out of 10 difficulty wise. Thus I never finished the DS one, but I enjoyed every moment of the Wii version.

[RCM]

Funny you should say that. In the last month Miyamoto did an interview, I think maybe with IGN, not sure, but he was asked his favorite Super Mario game ever that he created and guess what. He couldn't decide. He tied it between SMB1 and SMB2. So like, are you saying that the creator of Mario has no taste either?

Yeah, that was exactly what I was saying. Come on, man. Anyway, perhaps he was referring to the Japanese version of SMB2?

[Lady Jaye]

Well, Miyamoto was more closely involved in Doki Doki Panic than in SMB2J, so he may have meant Doki Doki Panic/SMB2USA after all. Then again, according to Howard Phillips at CGE, when SMB2J was rejected by NOA (on Phillips' recommendation), it was Nintendo of Japan, not NOA, who decided to convert Doki Doki Panic into SMB2.

Anyway, going back to NSMB2, the Coin Rush mode has this "one more try" quality that makes you want to restart again and again to try to better the overall score, especially when trying to compete via StreetPass with other players (even more so when said players are people you know personally).

[Tanooki]

Yeah, that was exactly what I was saying. Come on, man. Anyway, perhaps he was referring to the Japanese version of SMB2?


Well, Miyamoto was more closely involved in Doki Doki Panic than in SMB2J, so he may have meant Doki Doki Panic/SMB2USA after all. Then again, according to Howard Phillips at CGE, when SMB2J was rejected by NOA (on Phillips' recommendation), it was Nintendo of Japan, not NOA, who decided to convert Doki Doki Panic into SMB2.

Anyway, going back to NSMB2, the Coin Rush mode has this "one more try" quality that makes you want to restart again and again to try to better the overall score, especially when trying to compete via StreetPass with other players (even more so when said players are people you know personally).

Well the interview he specifically said Super Mario Bros and Super Mario USA. I was thinking it could have meant that when I read the catch all headline before I read the interview/article entirely. I was surprised too. But, his reasons were all the things he added to SMUSA that became staples of Mario since. Some of the characters, the ability to pick up and toss things either to get up on stuff or to take out other targets. Also the very beautiful cartoon like visuals(which for Mario himself made SMB3 look like a beedy eyed downgrade) and the fun audio too, plus being a dream as it was a unique game.

[j_factor]

All I can say is that more of the best is never a bad thing. More of the generic is what is bad.

NSMB DS felt pretty generic to me. One of the good things about the Mario series has been that each game has its own identity. NSMB doesn't; it feels like a stock Mario game.

[Rickstilwell1]

Since New Super Mario Bros. 2 is all about running through levels and trying to get as many coins as you can, I took 2 rolls of Sacagawea/Presidential/Susan B Anthony (they usually come mixed together from banks) dollar coins to Gamestop and used 44 of them to buy the game. At least I saved the cashier some trouble by saving my Eisenhower dollars for Target to buy some blank DVDs and a coffee.

[BetaWolf47]

NSMB DS felt pretty generic to me. One of the good things about the Mario series has been that each game has its own identity. NSMB doesn't; it feels like a stock Mario game.
This is probably the most accurate thing I've heard about the series. Every Mario game has tried something new, except the New Super Mario Bros. games, ironically. These will be the only Mario platformers I will not be adding to my Mario collection.

[Rickstilwell1]

This is probably the most accurate thing I've heard about the series. Every Mario game has tried something new, except the New Super Mario Bros. games, ironically. These will be the only Mario platformers I will not be adding to my Mario collection.

new to each:

New Super Mario Bros. - Mega Mario, Mini Mario, Shell Mario, Mummipokey, Cheepskipper, Monty Tank, Lakithunder, Dry Bowser.
New Super Mario Bros. Wii - Ice Mario, Penguin Mario, Propeller Mario, timeline coexistence between Bowser Jr. & the original Koopalings
New Super Mario Bros. 2 - Gold Mario
New Super Mario Bros. U - Flying Squirrel Mario, any possible new bosses haven't been revealed.

Also similarly the only major new things Super Mario 3D Land brought were Boomerang Mario and the boss Pom Pom.

The first two New Super Mario Bros. games had more new things in them than the most recent one and the upcoming one. And more new abilities than Super Mario 3D Land.

[j_factor]

We weren't talking about abilities, though.

[TonyTheTiger]

Did Mario games really bring new stuff to the table each time, though? SMB2j was pretty much a level hack of the original with only a few new additions/changes. Super Mario World pretty much repeated Mario 3 with some additions like multiple exits and niftier boss fights. Mario Sunshine was Mario 64 with a water gun.

[kedawa]

I just find the NSMB to be terribly bland and unimaginative.
Compared to SMW and Yoshi's Island, it's just barren and amateurish.
It reminds me of that awful 3D remake of the arcade TMNT game.
I just want something similar to SMW or SMB3, but with the graphical richness of Rayman.

[jb143]

This is probably the most accurate thing I've heard about the series. Every Mario game has tried something new, except the New Super Mario Bros. games, ironically. These will be the only Mario platformers I will not be adding to my Mario collection.

A big one that Rickstilwell1 forgot to add to the list was the simultaneous multiplayer. Having 4 people playing a Mario game at the same exact time = 4 times as fun.

[j_factor]

Did Mario games really bring new stuff to the table each time, though? SMB2j was pretty much a level hack of the original with only a few new additions/changes. Super Mario World pretty much repeated Mario 3 with some additions like multiple exits and niftier boss fights. Mario Sunshine was Mario 64 with a water gun.

2j is a partial exception. But it still had its own distinctness, due to how hard it is. I didn't feel like World was a repeat of 3 at all. Nor was Sunshine very much like 64 -- pretty much the whole game revolves around that water pack.

[Rickstilwell1]

The point I was trying to make was that the original New Super Mario Bros. seemed a lot more original before it started getting sequels. While it wasn't the best of all Mario platformers and had shortcomings when compared with Super Mario Land 2 and Super Mario World, it had an identity of its own for three years. Only with the new sequels has it been getting upgrades rather than complete changes. This series is mainly designed to cater to those who want more of the same though. It's usually the 3D installments where they try to take new directions these days.

[kedawa]

The new Giana Sisters game looks like it puts NSMB to shame.

[BetaWolf47]

I wish reviewers would use this kind of scrutiny when reviewing games like Halo, Madden NFL, Call of Duty, and others...

[kedawa]

They do, or at least the good ones do. The Halo and CoD games always get derided for their mediocre campaigns and praised for their multiplayer features, which seems completely on point to me, and Madden is always taking flack for being technically stale.
It seems to me that the blind nostalgia people have for Nintendo products is more prevalent than populist bro-duding.

[j_factor]

The new Giana Sisters game looks like it puts NSMB to shame.

I was disappointed in Giana Sisters DS, tbh. It was a little bland, and too easy.

[marlowe221]

I am seriously on the fence about getting NSMB2.... I was really hoping for a spiritual sucessor to SMB2/SMUSA. I loved that game. Also, I thought the first NSMB was kinda bland.

On the other hand I am really enjoying 3D Land. It feels like some sublime marriage of the 2D and 3D Mario universes.

[Graham Mitchell]

My main gripe with nsmb2 is that it reuses all art and music assets from the first one and the wii game. It offers nothing new aesthetically, which is kind of a bummer.

That said, it is super super fun, and if you just play it for awhile, you see it actually brings some cool new ideas to the table (the cannon levels are particularly neat).

However, I did play nsmb u at e3, and that game ALSO reuses the engine and all art/music assets from nsmb wii. If you saw quick video clips of the 2 games running, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. IMO, this is a serious lost opportunity for Nintendo. The zelda games get drastic audio/visual overhauls between games, and that's a big part of keeping the series fresh. I don't know why they're just reissuing What looks like a romhack of the first nsmb every few years. Its gonna wear thin pretty soon.

[kupomogli]

Funny you should say that. In the last month Miyamoto did an interview, I think maybe with IGN, not sure, but he was asked his favorite Super Mario game ever that he created and guess what. He couldn't decide. He tied it between SMB1 and SMB2. So like, are you saying that the creator of Mario has no taste either?

What he means is that people bought Mario 2 because it had Mario slapped on the front cover, something that anyone would do nowdays and praise the game regardless of the quality of the product.

Nintendo could hack the graphics to Back to the Future 2 and 3 for NES, adding Mario graphics but leaving everything else the same, then sell it as a 3DSWare game. It'd sell, and it'd receive massive praise from Nintendo fanboys.

[j_factor]

What he means is that people bought Mario 2 because it had Mario slapped on the front cover, something that anyone would do nowdays and praise the game regardless of the quality of the product.

Nintendo could hack the graphics to Back to the Future 2 and 3 for NES, adding Mario graphics but leaving everything else the same, then sell it as a 3DSWare game. It'd sell, and it'd receive massive praise from Nintendo fanboys.

What the flippity fuck are you talking about? Mario 2 actually is a great game.

[G-Boobie]

What the flippity fuck are you talking about? Mario 2 actually is a great game.

Agreed. Explain your position, Kupo. YOU'RE ON THIN ICE, SON.

[kupomogli]

Where in that post did I say Mario 2 wasn't a great game? I'm just saying that Nintendo could slap the Mario logo on a bag of shit and people would buy it and would say it's the greatest thing ever. Well. Not quite a bag of shit, but you get my point.

[j_factor]

Where in that post did I say Mario 2 wasn't a great game? I'm just saying that Nintendo could slap the Mario logo on a bag of shit and people would buy it and would say it's the greatest thing ever. Well. Not quite a bag of shit, but you get my point.

The game came out in 1988. Mario was big, but it wasn't like that back then.

[Tupin]

Where in that post did I say Mario 2 wasn't a great game? I'm just saying that Nintendo could slap the Mario logo on a bag of shit and people would buy it and would say it's the greatest thing ever. Well. Not quite a bag of shit, but you get my point.
http://www.obsolete-tears.com/photos/cdi-hotel-mario-front.jpg

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6324/385771-mario_teaches_typing_2_large.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Mario%27s_Time_Machine_SNES.jpg

"Greatest things ever"

[kupomogli]

I bet you Mario's Time Machine sold because it's on a console people owned, If the CDi sold a lot I'd bet that the Mario games on that would have sold.

Also. Mario Teach Typing was one of the games we could play during our free time when I was in first or second grade. So it didn't do too bad if you take that into account.

[fahlim003]

Did Mario games really bring new stuff to the table each time, though? SMB2j was pretty much a level hack of the original with only a few new additions/changes. Super Mario World pretty much repeated Mario 3 with some additions like multiple exits and niftier boss fights.
Yoshi(s) and the various abilities, the switches, Star Road, in-stage checkpoints, Dragon coins, etc. so yes barring the fact you can choose where to move on the over-world like a board game, that certain items got a second life in World (leaf/raccoon suit for the feather/magic cape), and that the main enemies were Bowser and the Koopalings.


Mario Sunshine was Mario 64 with a water gun.
Oh hell no. Mario Sunshine is far removed from Mario 64 which is why it's never sat as well with people as the successors have.

[TonyTheTiger]

Most of what you have there is fluff that adds to the personality of the game but hardly affects the core mechanics or functionality of it. If that's the case you may as well say that the poison mushroom makes SMB2j a completely different game from the original. There are obvious similarities between SMB3 and SMW to the point that it's almost impossible to find somebody who likes one but doesn't like the other.

And Mario Sunshine is more related to Mario 64 than a lot of people care to admit, perhaps because it would require them to accept that Mario 64 has some flaws that just happened to be amplified by Sunshine's worse level design.

It's clear the Mario games did not set out to reinvent the wheel each and every time. In fact, that's one of the virtues of the series. Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

[Press_Start]

I feel like NSMB2 was explicitly made to pander shareholders. It screams rushed, half-baked idea as a Mario game whose sole collective purpose, both figuratively and literally, grab a LOT of coin, which would be perfect for a Warioland game. Heck, that was the whole point of the original Warioland. Why wasn't this a Warioland game? Oh right, the shareholders wanted another Mario game. :oops:

[Tupin]

Most of what you have there is fluff that adds to the personality of the game but hardly affects the core mechanics or functionality of it. If that's the case you may as well say that the poison mushroom makes SMB2j a completely different game from the original. There are obvious similarities between SMB3 and SMW to the point that it's almost impossible to find somebody who likes one but doesn't like the other.

And Mario Sunshine is more related to Mario 64 than a lot of people care to admit, perhaps because it would require them to accept that Mario 64 has some flaws that just happened to be amplified by Sunshine's worse level design.

It's clear the Mario games did not set out to reinvent the wheel each and every time. In fact, that's one of the virtues of the series. Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

Super Mario Sunshine was awesome, the no-FLUDD levels and music are where it truly shined.

[Tupin]

I feel like NSMB2 was explicitly made to pander shareholders. It screams rushed, half-baked idea as a Mario game whose sole collective purpose, both figuratively and literally, grab a LOT of coin, which would be perfect for a Warioland game. Heck, that was the whole point of the original Warioland. Why wasn't this a Warioland game? Oh right, the shareholders wanted another Mario game. :oops:
If Nintendo listened to shareholders, they would have put their games on Android and iOS like shareholders are apparently screaming at them to do.

[YoshiM]

Oh hell no. Mario Sunshine is far removed from Mario 64 which is why it's never sat as well with people as the successors have.

Yeah...don't get me started. Sunshine did not last long in my Gamecube. If I wanted a game about cleaning stuff, I've got house I can clean and a child I can spray with the garden hose. Lot more fun, even with the "non FLUDD levels".

[Press_Start]

If Nintendo listened to shareholders, they would have put their games on Android and iOS like shareholders are apparently screaming at them to do.

Well, there's a difference between "listening" and "total surrender" and I don't think Iwata's done fighting just yet. But they do have to answer to shareholders and NSMB2 threw a bone to keep the pressure off them while getting Nintendo out of the "red"....or as the industry calls it, "ARMAGED-NINTENUCLEARAGNOROKILLAUNICRONGIGADEATHSTARPALOOZA-DON '12"

[kupomogli]

Nintendo should let Sony use Mario for Playstation All Stars. I'm pretty pissed with all the third party being nothing more than advertisement, but Mario being on the game wouldn't bother me at all. It'd be funny if they got permission.

[marlowe221]

If Nintendo listened to shareholders, they would have put their games on Android and iOS like shareholders are apparently screaming at them to do.

I would be happy to play Mario games on Android and IOS devices - but NOT with current touch controls!

[RCM]

I feel like NSMB2 was explicitly made to pander shareholders. It screams rushed, half-baked idea as a Mario game whose sole collective purpose, both figuratively and literally, grab a LOT of coin, which would be perfect for a Warioland game. Heck, that was the whole point of the original Warioland. Why wasn't this a Warioland game? Oh right, the shareholders wanted another Mario game. :oops:

Can't say I disagree with any of this.

[Sothy]

Eat it you gluttonous fools!

5633

[BetaWolf47]

Most of what you have there is fluff that adds to the personality of the game but hardly affects the core mechanics or functionality of it. If that's the case you may as well say that the poison mushroom makes SMB2j a completely different game from the original. There are obvious similarities between SMB3 and SMW to the point that it's almost impossible to find somebody who likes one but doesn't like the other.
And Mario Sunshine is more related to Mario 64 than a lot of people care to admit, perhaps because it would require them to accept that Mario 64 has some flaws that just happened to be amplified by Sunshine's worse level design.
It's clear the Mario games did not set out to reinvent the wheel each and every time. In fact, that's one of the virtues of the series. Nothing wrong with pointing it out.
You may have a point there, but I would still argue that World differentiates itself enough to be its own game, while the New Super Mario Bros. games do not. It wasn't mentioned before, but it's the first Mario game that lets you replay levels. Unlocking stuff and then coming back to play a level with the extra stuff, such as colored bricks and different types of Yoshis, does add an extra layer of depth. It's even required to find alternate paths and beat the game 100%.

[TonyTheTiger]

Yeah, but most of that finds its roots in Mario 3. World didn't really invent the alternate exits. Mario 3 did it with the few whistles. World just dialed it up to 11 with the revisiting of levels a functional necessity as a result. World didn't invent the idea of Star Road. It just added real stages and more consistent access points to what is essentially the Mario 3 warp zone. The game has it's flair, sure, but just about everything it does is built on ideas already laid out in the previous game. So I think it's silly to criticize the NSMB games for not evolving when one of the best games in the series didn't do much of it either. At that point it's cherry picking as far as what actually counts as growth and change.

[BetaWolf47]

Well, with that kind of criteria, there's nothing they can do to make an original Mario game in your eyes, besides taking the Star Fox Adventures route and putting Mario into a completely unrelated game.

[kedawa]

Kid Chameleon is my SMB 5.

[treismac]

Having 4 people playing a Mario game at the same exact time = 4 times as fun.

I've had multiple people playing Mario with me on New Super Mario Bros. Wii, but they were all lousy Mario players so it wasn't the experience that it could have been, I suppose, had there been some real Mario players backing me up. Honestly, I resent the simultaneous multiplayer since it put limits on the game's design, limiting the explorability of the levels as well as depriving the powerups of a true flying option beyond the propeller. But then I'm an old and bitter man who likes to play his Mario alone in the hollow glow of a rabbit-eared television set as the subway train shuttles by every hour as towers of empty pizza boxes sway in its wake.

[Graham Mitchell]

I've had multiple people playing Mario with me on New Super Mario Bros. Wii, but they were all lousy Mario players so it wasn't the experience that it could have been, I suppose, had there been some real Mario players backing me up. Honestly, I resent the simultaneous multiplayer since it put limits on the game's design, limiting the explorability of the levels as well as depriving the powerups of a true flying option beyond the propeller. But then I'm an old and bitter man who likes to play his Mario alone in the hollow glow of a rabbit-eared television set as the subway train shuttles by every hour as towers of empty pizza boxes sway in its wake.

Unfortunately, this appears to be nintendos new design philosophy. The wii u is basically designed as a multiplayer party machine. The best of the Nintendoland games featured at e3 were only fun when you have 5 people with you.

[Tanooki]

Perhaps another problem with Mario, well fake problem, is the mentality of the modern gamer? Mario still sticks to the roots of the 1980s he was born in and the 90s refinements. This era has been about 3D, flash and fuss, particular genres kicking other legit forms of gaming out of being 'cool' or fresh and into the background of handhelds and download services. Mario changes perhaps 10% of the formula at best a generation. You'll get the mega mario, the micro mario, the funny suits, yoshis, pick up n carry + toss, koopa kids, water guns, whatever but at the roots, it's still old 80s/90s mario. People these days, the younger ones at least who started in the say around the very late 90s early 00s stuff like Mario would be more an acquired taste as it's not your fps, sports, brawling, racing, wrpg type trendy bs. It's easy when Mario isn't in your genres of choice to criticize and nitpick the ever loving shit out of the games saying they don't change, they don't advance, they play the same, and so on. I'd throw back in their faces, and Call of Duty and Madden and Street Fighter 4 year releases do?

New SMB 2 on the 3DS isn't revolutionary, it's nothing drastically different, but it did when you look at it's only sequel add and change things the original title didn't. The old game had the micro and mega mushrooms, starman and fire, and that shell suit, that's it, otherwise it was almost an 80s throwback and annoyingly was super short where you had to sneak into 2 of the worlds which was an insult. This new one has those hidden lands, but it also has well more worlds to mess with and none of the primary stages are blocked. They added back a few classics and then the whole new coin mechanic to the mix between the block head thing that spews them to the fire coins conversion to the gold suit stuff. It has the feel of the old one, corrects of lot of the more stupid issues and adds a few elements to the game, much like the lesser changes between what most call the two of the best 3 and 4(World.)

[TonyTheTiger]

Well, with that kind of criteria, there's nothing they can do to make an original Mario game in your eyes, besides taking the Star Fox Adventures route and putting Mario into a completely unrelated game.

Or how about it's not innovation but execution that makes or breaks a Mario game? I don't play Mario games for originality. I don't play Mega Man for it either. I expect different levels and a new gimmick or two that factors in to completing those levels. That has been the Mario staple.

[treismac]

Unfortunately, this appears to be nintendos new design philosophy. The wii u is basically designed as a multiplayer party machine. The best of the Nintendoland games featured at e3 were only fun when you have 5 people with you.

Then I shall spend my hermit gaming dollars elsewhere.

[kupomogli]

The difference between a good 2D Mario and a bad 2D Mario comes down to the level design, the physics of the game, and enemy placement. It's a platformer, so when the platforming aspect of the game is sub par, then Mario or not, you've got a bad game. Other than remakes, there are very few good platformers that have came out this gen, or maybe they started good and just got boring shortly after, or difficulty turned from challenging yet fun to frusturatingly difficult in a short amount of time.

Prinny and Prinny 2 in my opinion are amazing games that I'd recommend to any old school platforming fan. Aside from Dracula X Chronicles, I think they're the best two platformers this gen. They've both got a high difficulty, but it's challenging without being too challenging(think of a platformer version of Demon's Souls difficulty,) which to me is perfect. For those that are glutton's for punishment, then there is a difficulty which you die in a single hit. One feature about Prinny is the games difficulty scales as you complete stages, so one person might complete this one stage earlier on, and another person might choose to complete a few other stages before that one, so each stage is the same, but because one person is further in the game, then the stage has more enemies.

[Robocop2]

I caved and bought it and it's not bad. Nothing really very new and it does kind of feel more like New Super Mario Bros. 1.5 "numismatist edition"

I have to echo a sentiment from earlier and say I have a really hard time understanding why this isn't "New Super WARIO Land" or something like that. Mario has never been "all about the Benjamins" unlike Wario. The whole premise behind this game just screams Wario.

[Nature Boy]

I bet you Mario's Time Machine sold because it's on a console people owned,

I bet you have no idea how much it sold. And I'd hardly call an aggregate score of 60.25% (albeit from only two sources), how did you put it? Oh yeah:


I'm just saying that Nintendo could slap the Mario logo on a bag of shit and people would buy it and would say it's the greatest thing ever. Well. Not quite a bag of shit, but you get my point.

Enough with the hyperbole already dude...


5653



(Just to stay on point with the topic at hand, I'm sure it would be a fine game to play and I would enjoy it, but I don't have nor do I yet plan to buy a 3DS so the point is moot with me)

[Aussie2B]

It's easy when Mario isn't in your genres of choice to criticize and nitpick the ever loving shit out of the games saying they don't change, they don't advance, they play the same, and so on.

I think it's even easier to criticize when you DO really love platformers. The overall gameplay concept may be about the same as in the 80s and the 90s, but the mentality isn't the same at all. Nintendo is very much approaching these games with a modern mentality, approaching these as quick, easy, paint-by-the-numbers throwbacks. The stakes aren't remotely as high as in the past, so they don't have to put in the same kind of effort, creativity, etc. I mean, the fact that they're now recycling assets like graphics and music just says it all. Nintendo wants to make a quick buck off of us, that's it. They couldn't care less about making the next great Mario game that'll live on in memory in the same way as SMB3 and such. Maybe they care with the Galaxy games, but definitely not with these.

[kupomogli]

I bet you have no idea how much it sold. And I'd hardly call an aggregate score of 60.25% (albeit from only two sources), how did you put it?

It's a console people have owned and it's a Mario title. That's a good enough reason to know it's sold. Although you're right that I have no idea how much it sold, it must have sold well enough for them to decide to milk it elsewhere by porting it over to the NES and then over to the PC. If it didn't sell, I can see the PC version since it'd have just been a port, but the NES version is a completely different game altogether.

Here's an example. Final Fantasy. Despite all the hate it got in Japan and most of the fanbase calling the game out for being the piece of shit that it is when they got it day one, everyone still picked the game up because it's titled Final Fantasy. I know more than a few people who wanted to judge the game based on their own opinion since it's a series they like, me included. I'm a bit better off since I got it less than a month after release for $30 new, but I still bought it because it's Final Fantasy.

Sega also helps back up my bag of shit analogy with Sonic, as Sonic proves that a shitty, although well loved, mascot can be added to anything and it'll sell. Considering that barely any of the Sonic games are any good to begin with and Sonic originally sold because it was an exclusive property makes that ring all the more true.

[kedawa]

The Sonic thing is mind boggling.
It sells like crack to kids who weren't even alive when the series was actually good.

[j_factor]

Sonic Colors and Generations were both well-received. Black Knight sucked, but I don't think it sold that well.

[kedawa]

Those two are okay, but there's a period from about 1994 until 2010 when things were pretty bleak, and the overwhelming majority of Sonic games were mediocre.
Sonic Rush was actually pretty good, though.

[kupomogli]

The Sonic thing is mind boggling.
It sells like crack to kids who weren't even alive when the series was actually good.

Reminds me of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEHVR9Hj_b0&feature=player_detailpage#t=110s

[WanganRunner]

I don't think there's anything wrong with NSMB2. It's more of the same, but "the same" is utterly terrific. Any serious change to the Mario 2D formula would rile me, I think. I like seeing how they can advance within those confines, not advance by making an entirely different game. If they're going to do that, they should....make an entirely different game, but this isn't, it's Mario Bros, so it should be Mario Bros.

I'm more disturbed with the direction the 3D Mario games have gone in. I like SMB3D Land and the Galaxy titles, but it seems like they've been getting progressively more hectic, more like 2D Mario, more about rapid platforming than the exploration that we saw in SM64. I liked the easier pace of SM64 where the player was rewarded for paying attention and being curious, rather than for having the quickest reaction times.

Sunshine was still pretty heavy on the exploration and free-form stuff. Galaxy was less so, Galaxy 2 was less-so still, and now SM 3D land is basically a NSMB game in isometric. Stop doing this. Bring me back some Jolly Roger Bay, damn it.