8-bit to 16-bit Wrestling Games: the good, the bad, and M.U.S.C.L.E.

[treismac]

I've always enjoyed playing wrestling video games with friends. Serving as the equivalent of video game junk food, they're fun to throw into a console for a few minutes of over the top, smack-talking, button-mashing mayhem. Also, for whatever reason, pinning a buddy for a three count satisfies something in my martial spirit that a Street Fighter or Tekken k.o. just can't, which is odd because other than the occasional online Sumo Wrestling, I don't ever watch wrestling of any kind.

Anyway... What wrestling games kick ass and which ones suck ass for the 3rd and the 4th generation of gaming? Are there cult classics, guilty pleasures, or abominations that are so bad that they're worth checking out?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/048/783/a_winner_is_you20110724-22047-1nd3wif.jpg?1311564834

[A.C. Sativa]

The Fire Pro series for the Super Famicom is really good, though if you're looking for the ROM make sure you look for one with a translation patch, which is not only in English but will usually have all the wrestlers with their proper names (all the characters are based on real wrestlers, with the right look and movesets, but the names are changed for copyright reasons). Everything else for the 3rd and 4th generation systems is crap, the NES/SMS isn't advanced enough to do a good wrestling game (and there's not enough buttons on the controllers), and the WWF games for the SNES/Genesis were made by LJN. Saturday Night Slam Masters for the SNES/Genesis is OK, but that's really a fighting game that happens in a ring.

[Gameguy]

Saturday Night Slam Masters for the SNES/Genesis is OK, but that's really a fighting game that happens in a ring.
I was going to mention this but you beat me to it, I've had fun with this title. Usually I'm not really into wrestling games that much.

[Rob2600]

Good: Pro Wrestling and Tecmo World Wrestling (both NES)

Very bad: Tag Team Wrestling (NES)

[EricThaDead]

I recently translated an old Famicom wrestling game called "Toukon Club" into English (Not that there was alot of text). It sort of plays like the Fire Pro series, but not as elaborate, obviously. Easily my favorite NES wrestling game. Check it out.

You can get my translation patch and instructions for applying the patch at http://ericesoteric.com/blog/game-hacks/toukon-club-famicom/

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

As far as US releases are concerned,

On the NES

Pro Wrestling on NES still holds up extremely well. Exceptionally well IMO. It's a shame that some of the characters/actions have kept Nintendo from re-releasing it on Virtual Console or elsewhere.

Of course Pro Wrestling owes practically everything to Taito's arcade classic Mat Mania, which also holds up extremely well and similarly has characters (Coco Savage) that just wouldn't fly in an era of appropriate racial sensitivity.

Tecmo Wrestling is good, some impressive presentation (cut-away cinematics on power moves) and power-up training system.

The WWF games on NES are all horrible. With licensed property king LJN at the helm, play mechanics are all but an after-thought.

WCW Championship Wrestling seems to have the seeds of good ideas (large roster, actual wrestling play mechanics) but it's just so stiff and ugly that it's not worth the time/effort required to learn how to play it well.

M.U.S.C.L.E. gets a bad rap, it's not a technical marvel by any stretch of the imagination, but as a two player "fighting" game, it's certainly possible to have fun with. If nothing else it created a video game legacy that got us to the Ultimate M.U.S.C.L.E. games on GameCube and PS2 which are pretty fantastic IMO.

Tag Team Wrestling is the bottom of the barrel for NES wrestling games, however - according to the Chapman Bros. who created him, the HomestarRunner character StrongBad got his name from the masked "Strong Bads" from that game. I do love me some StrongBad so I'll tolerate Tag Team Wrestling's existence for that.

*Same goes for Tag Team Wrestling on Sega Master System with the exception that it's a tiny bit better looking than the NES version.

On the SNES:

The WWF games improve to some degree with the peak of quality being Royal Rumble. Good graphics, decent play control, finishing moves, etc.

WCW SuperBrawl Not sure if this game uses early Fire Pro Wrestling tech, but it suffers from similar problems to its NES junior. It LOOKS a lot better, but it's generally too stiff and requires a lot of learning to get the most out of the wrestling mechanics.

Hammer Lock Wrestling is VERY similar to Tecmo Wrestling on NES. Very nice presentation with close-up large sprite cut away "cinematics". An odd one, can be hard to find in the wild, but worth grabbing if you like wrestling games. Like a lot of unlicensed wrestling games of this era it has aesthetic equivalents of current wrestlers of that time like Lex Luger, The Road Warriors, etc.

Natsume Championship Wrestling More arcadey than other unlicensed wrestlers on SNES, but sadly another one that's tough to play due to some really terrible collision detection and very challenging computer AI.

But, anybody who knows me knows that if there's one wrestling game in the 8/16 bit era that I hold above all others, it's:

Saturday Night Slam Masters Capcom's amazing hybrid wrestling/fighting game. Excellent on both SNES and Genesis though the Genesis version trades 4-player multi-tap mode for a 1-on-1 electric barb-wire death match. With character designs amusingly reminiscent of WWF and WCW wrestlers of that era by Tetsuo Hara (of Fist of the North Star), incredibly balanced/engineered play mechanics that blend the best things from wrestling games of that era with the best things from Street Fighter games, tons of "nods" to Capcom fans (appearances from Street Fighter charachters in the crowd, etc.) and a great soundtrack by Capcom regulars Toshio Kajino and Shun Nishigaki.

For my money Saturday Night Slam Masters, any way you can get it - SNES, Genesis, or on a good MAME/CPS emulator (it's CPS1, so it typically runs beautifully in emulation) is the way to go with 16 bit wrestling.

I was actually a "challenge" competitor at PAX East last year. Anybody who could best me in a game of Saturday Night Slam Masters got a PAX Challenge Coin. Took the better part of the weekend for somebody to step up to the challenge, but instead of getting bummed about losing - I was actually thrilled to find somebody else who loved the game as much as me when it finally happened. Turns out the guy who beat me was a staff writer who did a review of the SNES version for a gaming publication in the late 90s (can't remember if it was GamePro or EGM) and wound up similarly falling in love with the game.

[Space-Ace-13]

WWF Wrestle Mania: The Arcade Game is the best 8 or 16 bit wrestling game. I used to play this game a sickening amount... its so much fun! Each character has their own special moves and when they get hit stuff falls out, like Shawn Michaels loses broken hearts, but Yokozuna loses like hams when he gets hit. Its over the top and a ton of fun!

WWF Wrestlemania on the NES might not only be the worst wrestling game I've every played... but may simply be one of the worst video games I've ever played. Its terrible

[FrankSerpico]

^The 32-bit versions of WM: The Arcade game blow the 16-bit versions away and can usually be found for just as cheap. The SNES port didn;t even have Bam Bam Bigelow or Yokozuna

[chrisbid]

http://www.youtube.com/user/MikeAndTomPresent

Joe Gagne's Funtime Pro Wrestling Arcade

fantastic YouTube series on Pro Wrestling Video Games

[DragonMaster Sam]

WWF Wrestle Mania: The Arcade Game is the best 8 or 16 bit wrestling game. I used to play this game a sickening amount... its so much fun! Each character has their own special moves and when they get hit stuff falls out, like Shawn Michaels loses broken hearts, but Yokozuna loses like hams when he gets hit. Its over the top and a ton of fun!

WWF Wrestlemania on the NES might not only be the worst wrestling game I've every played... but may simply be one of the worst video games I've ever played. Its terrible

Agreed. WWF WrestleMania was terrible. I did, however, find WrestleMania Challenge to be an ok game.

[A.C. Sativa]

WWF Wrestlemania on the NES might not only be the worst wrestling game I've every played... but may simply be one of the worst video games I've ever played. Its terrible

That game sucks, but it's not even in the same league as Raw/Raw 2 for the XBox. Worst games ever, I'd rather play Action 52 than that shit. Thunder and Nitro for the N64/PS1 suck ass too, as does Anarchy Rulz.

[ultimaweapon]

Pro Wrestling on the Sega MAster System. There was only 4 tag teams. The music was just whacked out. I liked the chair bashing outside the ring.

[MidnightRider]

Agreed. WWF WrestleMania was terrible. I did, however, find WrestleMania Challenge to be an ok game.

Yeah, I wanted to mention that I found WWF Wrestlemania Challenge to be decent as well. It really shines in 2 player co-op, as you can innovate with the double teams. Unfortunately you're stuck as the generic characters going through a tournament, but it still works out quite well.

Also, unless you're an importer, as I don't see any other way than emulation to really enjoy this one, The best of the era would easily be Super Fire Pro Wrestling X Premium(which I believe was the one A.C. Sativa was trying to make mention of). An importer would miss out on the ability to hack a save state to be able to leave the ring during a battle royal(not to mention the ability to play it in English), which I think adds a lot to it, but it obviously doesn't function perfectly(the camera sometimes has a hard time trying to follow it, and you could be stuck off screen, trying to fight a guy you can't really see, for a while).

Another great game I don't see mentioned yet is the arcade only WWF Wrestlefest.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Yeah, I wanted to mention that I found WWF Wrestlemania Challenge to be decent as well. It really shines in 2 player co-op, as you can innovate with the double teams. Unfortunately you're stuck as the generic characters going through a tournament, but it still works out quite well.

Also, unless you're an importer, as I don't see any other way than emulation to really enjoy this one, The best of the era would easily be Super Fire Pro Wrestling X Premium(which I believe was the one A.C. Sativa was trying to make mention of). An importer would miss out on the ability to hack a save state to be able to leave the ring during a battle royal(not to mention the ability to play it in English), which I think adds a lot to it, but it obviously doesn't function perfectly(the camera sometimes has a hard time trying to follow it, and you could be stuck off screen, trying to fight a guy you can't really see, for a while).

Another great game I don't see mentioned yet is the arcade only WWF Wrestlefest.

I was avoiding the arcade stuff with the exception of the footnote about Mat Mania.

Lots of decent wrestling games in the arcade in that era. Wrestlefest is one of the absolute best, though, once you get the timing down you can blow through a Royal Rumble or the entire Tag Mode on one credit. It simply doesn't have a very aggressive AI.

[buzz_n64]

The only one I could tolerate was Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game. I hate endlessly mashing buttons in order to get out of a grapple, and this game changes it up, making into a fighting game style.

[BlastProcessing402]

The already mentioned Super Fire Prowrestling series is the cream of the crop, particularly Super Fire Prowrestling Special (the 4th game) and Super Fire Prowrestling X (the 5th).

There's a rom translation patch for SFPX Premium (a 2nd release version of X, that I think just had more room for created wrestlers). Acutally, I don't know how hard they are to find these days, but there were a lot of really good hacking tools released so you could copy wrestlers to and from save games among other things.

Another really good one, also on SFC, was Burning Prowrestling. The gameplay isn't quite as good, but is still lightyears beyond anything released outside of Japan in that era. And it even has a lot of features and options not in Fire Pro, like player controlled refs.

[kedawa]

WWf Wrestlemania The Arcade Game is really the only rasslin game that's any good.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

The already mentioned Super Fire Prowrestling series is the cream of the crop, particularly Super Fire Prowrestling Special (the 4th game) and Super Fire Prowrestling X (the 5th).

There's a rom translation patch for SFPX Premium (a 2nd release version of X, that I think just had more room for created wrestlers). Acutally, I don't know how hard they are to find these days, but there were a lot of really good hacking tools released so you could copy wrestlers to and from save games among other things.

Another really good one, also on SFC, was Burning Prowrestling. The gameplay isn't quite as good, but is still lightyears beyond anything released outside of Japan in that era. And it even has a lot of features and options not in Fire Pro, like player controlled refs.

Fire Pro stuff is typically excellent, complex and wildly customizable, though it's precision-timing-based grapple system is a real barrier for entry for most novice players. It's plays pretty much the opposite of every other wrestling game that came before it. Totally an anti-button-masher.

Also, shocked to see so much love for Wrestlemania the Arcade Game.

[goatdan]

Wrestlemania Challenge for the NES is (was?) absolutely outstanding in two player mode. In single player mode, it was FAR too easy, but I loved playing it when a friend came over, either against one another or as a team. If you have someone else who likes old school games, it might be worth giving it a shot with them.

[MidnightRider]

I have to believe some of the developers that created Pro Wrestling moved on to Human/Spike. You can see the same animations when you pick up your opponent after they're close to being beaten, within the Fire Pro series.

I actually enjoyed In your House as well as Wrestlemania Arcade. I know some really hated that one, but I thought the power-ups and hindrance items added a layer of strategy.

[Tanooki]

I guess I didn't know better as a kid but I ended up with Tag Team Wrestling and even finished it. I never really hated the game but I was not ever super hyped about it either but I don't think it deserves to be called bad. Sure you were stuck with very limited wrestler options but the move sets were kind of cool as was the ability out of the wring to beat the crap out of someone using a chair or running them over to the poll and skull cracking them on it.

Later (latter part of the 90s) I ended up with Pro Wrestling which is really fun and gave a lot more choices.

I have been curious about the Natsume wrestler and Slamasters from Capcom but never tried them.

I also have a prototype of WWF Wrestlemania for GB, interesting game with a good little roster of wrestlers, not sure if my copy is a final test or not as I don't have the original and barely fire it up as I don't want it to croak. I'd be more inclined to sell it than store it.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I have to believe some of the developers that created Pro Wrestling moved on to Human/Spike. You can see the same animations when you pick up your opponent after they're close to being beaten, within the Fire Pro series.

I actually enjoyed In your House as well as Wrestlemania Arcade. I know some really hated that one, but I thought the power-ups and hindrance items added a layer of strategy.

Yes, you are correct.

Masato Masuda was the lone programmer on Pro Wrestling for Famicom/NES and he also worked on the Fire Pro series in its earliest incarnations.

[BlastProcessing402]

I have to believe some of the developers that created Pro Wrestling moved on to Human/Spike. You can see the same animations when you pick up your opponent after they're close to being beaten, within the Fire Pro series.


Yes, you are correct.

Masato Masuda was the lone programmer on Pro Wrestling for Famicom/NES and he also worked on the Fire Pro series in its earliest incarnations.

Cool, I've long had the same thought, good to hear it is indeed true! :hail:

[jammajup]

I do not recall anything really outstanding in the 8-16bit era to be honest maybe in the arcade WWF Wrestlefest-(in Royal Rumble),the only home wrestling games i played at home with any playability were on the N64.

[Steven]

Other than the final Fire Pro release on SNES, the finest wrestling game one can play on SNES IMO is Zen Nippon Pro Wrestling Budokan. It's simply ace

http://rvgfanatic.com/6501/62522.html

http://rvgfanatic.com/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_1474978/Budokan-Fatal4-7.JPG

http://rvgfanatic.com/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_1473778/BudokanEntrance.JPG

[Gamereviewgod]

WWF King of the Ring on the NES was so bad, no one even remembers it in this thread. Priceless. It easily had some of the more painful sprite work on the hardware. Hilariously underdetailed and a mass of lines and color. Gameplay was simply atrocious too.

I liked most of the LJN 16-bit games, beginning with Royal Rumble. The underrated Rage in the Cage on Sega CD is awesome. Great voice work that sold that era of the WWF. I could do without the "computer wins when it wants to" button mashing grapple system, but those games had a great move set.

[BlastProcessing402]

I liked most of the LJN 16-bit games, beginning with Royal Rumble. The underrated Rage in the Cage on Sega CD is awesome. Great voice work that sold that era of the WWF. I could do without the "computer wins when it wants to" button mashing grapple system, but those games had a great move set.

Best part of Rage In the Cage was the gibberish Fatu would yell before each match he was in. BABOO! EEECHACHACHA! EEE-EEE! YAH! YAH!

[Hawksmoor]

Anybody remember Wrestle War for the Megadrive? Not stellar, but not horrible either. It's most distinguishing features were the blatant ripoffs of popular wrestlers (including Hulk Hogan on the cover), blah gameplay, and title screen audio; some obnoxious guy yelling "Welcome toooooo Wrestleeeeeeee War!"

http://www.segagagadomain.com/megadrive4/wrestle-cover.jpg

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Anybody remember Wrestle War for the Megadrive? Not stellar, but not horrible either. It's most distinguishing features were the blatant ripoffs of popular wrestlers (including Hulk Hogan on the cover), blah gameplay, and title screen audio; some obnoxious guy yelling "Welcome toooooo Wrestleeeeeeee War!"

http://www.segagagadomain.com/megadrive4/wrestle-cover.jpg

Yeah, it's very good for a 16 bit game, huge sprites, but the camera angle changing can be jarring.

Sad that Sega didn't bring it to the US, the Genesis could have done with a 1st party wrestling title during that era. Glad they threw it on some of the Genesis collections.

[Gameguy]

WWF King of the Ring on the NES was so bad, no one even remembers it in this thread.
I had it, I liked it better than Wrestlemania for the NES but that's not really saying much. I remember trying both King of the Ring and Wrestlemania in a game store to pick one of them as I wanted a wrestling game at the time, I didn't know about rarity at the time so I went with the game I liked to play more. I later sold it because I never really played it at home.

[EricThaDead]

Here's a short video of Toukon Club, since nobody else has even mentioned it and I clearly didn't talk it up enough lol. Ignore my terrible playing, I was trying to to figure out a crazy corkscrew top rope move, but I couldn't get it in this video. Anyway... Camera rotation, dives out of the ring, knock offs of real wrestlers (Hulk Hogan, Mil Mascaras, Abdullah the Butcher, etc.), not a large selection of moves or wrestlers by any means, but still a really decent wrestling game for being on the Famicom.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh1dYrePRVk

[treismac]

Here's a short video of Toukon Club, since nobody else has even mentioned it and I clearly didn't talk it up enough lol. Ignore my terrible playing, I was trying to to figure out a crazy corkscrew top rope move, but I couldn't get it in this video. Anyway... Camera rotation, dives out of the ring, knock offs of real wrestlers (Hulk Hogan, Mil Mascaras, Abdullah the Butcher, etc.), not a large selection of moves or wrestlers by any means, but still a really decent wrestling game for being on the Famicom.

Cool wrestling game, man! Yeah, it took the video to entice me to play it. I appreciate your evangelistic zeal and the work you put into translating the game.

[EricThaDead]

Cool wrestling game, man! Yeah, it took the video to entice me to play it. I appreciate your evangelistic zeal and the work you put into translating the game.

I did the translation back in November, but I didn't spread it around or anything, just posted it on ROMHacking.net and my website. I'm hoping a few people enjoy the game so me translating it, and possibly attempting to translate something else, doesn't feel like a complete waste of time lol. Thanx for checking it out!

[hellraiser]

Wwf wrestlemania the arcade. It's more mortal kombat then wwf but it's good and fun!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Here's a short video of Toukon Club, since nobody else has even mentioned it and I clearly didn't talk it up enough lol. Ignore my terrible playing, I was trying to to figure out a crazy corkscrew top rope move, but I couldn't get it in this video. Anyway... Camera rotation, dives out of the ring, knock offs of real wrestlers (Hulk Hogan, Mil Mascaras, Abdullah the Butcher, etc.), not a large selection of moves or wrestlers by any means, but still a really decent wrestling game for being on the Famicom.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh1dYrePRVk

WOW! I love the ring rotations. Don't know how I've missed this one over the years. Can't wait to give it a try!

[EricThaDead]

WOW! I love the ring rotations. Don't know how I've missed this one over the years. Can't wait to give it a try!

Quick tip: When the camera rotates, try to get to a different vertical plane than your opponent. It takes a bit to get used to the camera rotation, and the CP almost always tries to hit a strike as it happens. lol

Hope you enjoy it!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

This thread makes me really bummed that US developers seem to be completely resistant to making an unlicensed wrestling game with over-the-top characters ala Pro-Wrestling, Saturday Night Slam Masters or even Punch-Out if you will in our modern era.

The closest we've gotten in recent years are previously mentioned M.U.S.C.L.E. games and the Rumble Roses games, which aren't bad other than both being paced in the Japanese pro wrestling match style (slow and steady).

I'd LOVE to see something with over-the-top original characters and crazy fast action ... the WWE Superstars game was a move in the right direction but the superdeformed WWE likenesses kind of held it back more than anything.

I'm a huge wrestling mark and I'm totally not opposed to playing with unlicensed characters if they're well designed and have personality. Wrestling games need to be fun again!

[kedawa]

Did you see that PC wrestling game on Steam Greenlight?
It's supposed to be like a highly modifiable clone of Aki's N64 rasslin games.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Did you see that PC wrestling game on Steam Greenlight?
It's supposed to be like a highly modifiable clone of Aki's N64 rasslin games.

I didn't. Links?

[kedawa]

Pro Wrestling X: Uprising

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92916857

There are some videos on YouTube as well.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Pro Wrestling X: Uprising

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92916857

There are some videos on YouTube as well.

Neat. I wish the dev luck, but it's not QUITE what I'm looking for personally.

I want something more arcadey, retro pixel style or hand-drawn animations and more over-the-top/crazy moves. It doesn't have to be 2D but wrestling games have pretty much been that 3D aesthetic for the past 15 years or so.

[kedawa]

It's sad, but I think pixel art is just wishful thinking nowadays.
It seems like only retro hipster platformers and doujin fighters use it these days.
Dust looks good, but it's so detailed and uses so many colours that it doesn't have that classic look.

[MidnightRider]

Unless you become a pixel artist: http://2dwillneverdie.com/

It's pretty much what Scrollboss (http://scrollboss.illmosis.net/) is about these days.

I did play Toukon Club when you first translated it, for what it's worth.

[BlastProcessing402]

Yeah, it's very good for a 16 bit game, huge sprites, but the camera angle changing can be jarring.

Sad that Sega didn't bring it to the US, the Genesis could have done with a 1st party wrestling title during that era. Glad they threw it on some of the Genesis collections.


They didn't release it on the Genesis, but they did release an arcade version in America. I remember playing it at Pizza Hut (and being fairly underwhelmed).



This thread makes me really bummed that US developers seem to be completely resistant to making an unlicensed wrestling game with over-the-top characters ala Pro-Wrestling, Saturday Night Slam Masters or even Punch-Out if you will in our modern era.

The closest we've gotten in recent years are previously mentioned M.U.S.C.L.E. games and the Rumble Roses games, which aren't bad other than both being paced in the Japanese pro wrestling match style (slow and steady).

I'd LOVE to see something with over-the-top original characters and crazy fast action ... the WWE Superstars game was a move in the right direction but the superdeformed WWE likenesses kind of held it back more than anything.

I'm a huge wrestling mark and I'm totally not opposed to playing with unlicensed characters if they're well designed and have personality. Wrestling games need to be fun again!


In addition to WWE All Stars (which was an all around mess, IMO), there was also WWE Legends of Wrestlemania, which was quite a bit better. It was too arcadey for my tastes, but still not a bad game.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

They didn't release it on the Genesis, but they did release an arcade version in America. I remember playing it at Pizza Hut (and being fairly underwhelmed).

In addition to WWE All Stars (which was an all around mess, IMO), there was also WWE Legends of Wrestlemania, which was quite a bit better. It was too arcadey for my tastes, but still not a bad game.

The Genesis/Mega Drive version of Wrestle War is pretty close to the arcade version.

Oh right right WWE ALL STARS, not Super Stars, forgot what it was called.

That's kind of the PACE of the game that I want but non-licensed so they can have the freedom to get wacky with character designs.

I guess developers view wrestling as a sports game genre in the US and as such they don't want to do it unlicensed.

[Johnny Nintendo]

I know it's not an 8 or 16 bit wrestling game, but Virtual Pro Wrestling 2 has to be the greatest wrestling game of all time. Definitely worth checking out if you're a wrestling mark like myself. Sorry I'm new by the way, just been lurking for the past 2 years.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I know it's not an 8 or 16 bit wrestling game, but Virtual Pro Wrestling 2 has to be the greatest wrestling game of all time. Definitely worth checking out if you're a wrestling mark like myself. Sorry I'm new by the way, just been lurking for the past 2 years.

Do the VPW games have the AKI engine used in the WCW Vs. NWO/Revenge and WWF Wrestlemania 2000/No Mercy games?

I think I scored those in an N64 lot years ago but never really played with them.

[EricThaDead]

Do the VPW games have the AKI engine used in the WCW Vs. NWO/Revenge and WWF Wrestlemania 2000/No Mercy games?

I think I scored those in an N64 lot years ago but never really played with them.

VPW2 uses the AKI engine. I'd assume VPW1 does too, as I can't think of a single N64 wrestling game that DIDN'T use that engine lol.

Edit: Oh, I forgot about Nitro/Mayhem/Backstage Assault/Attitude/War Zone. They didn't use the AKI engine, obviously, but I played them on PS1 lol.

[MidnightRider]

Funny enough, Virtual Pro Wrestling 2 was the engine tweaked for WWF Wrestlemnia 2000.

I would vote for the Fire Pro series as the best, on the other hand.

[Johnny Nintendo]

Yeah, that's what I usually find is some prefer the Fire Pro Series over the VPW games, and some prefer it the other way around. I haven't met many people who like both though.