View Full Version : Happy Birthday Dreamcast and PlayStation
...And SNES, arguably. I can't believe DC was released 13 years ago today in North America as well as 17 years for PS. Damn, time flies.
Lady Jaye
09-09-2012, 11:10 AM
SNES? Where did you see Sept. 9 for a release of the SNES? Looking at Wikipedia, none of the releases of the console were released on Sept. 9.
SNES? Where did you see Sept. 9 for a release of the SNES? Looking at Wikipedia, none of the releases of the console were released on Sept. 9.
I've read Nintendo intended to release SNES on 9/9/91 in North America but that some lucky gamers got their hands on it in August of 1991. That's why I said "arguably" in reference to their "intended" launch date.
According to an article quoted here: http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15430 the official release was 9/9/91. It's obvious SNES was available in some parts of North America before 9/9/91, but it seems possible that Nintendo wanted to officially release on this date 21 years ago.
PS - stop looking at wikipedia.
Lady Jaye
09-09-2012, 11:51 AM
LOL I know. That's why I was asking for precisions, since I'm quite aware that the facts aren't always right on wikipedia...
MarioMania
09-09-2012, 12:03 PM
I didn't know the SNES was going to be released on 9/9/91
fahlim003
09-09-2012, 07:52 PM
All the same, stay on target. Keep on rocking PlayStation and Dreamcast!
BricatSegaFan
09-09-2012, 07:56 PM
Nooo that Playstation killed off my beloved Saturn in the US at least.
Emperor Megas
09-09-2012, 08:36 PM
"It's (still) thinking". Mine is, anyway.
j_factor
09-09-2012, 09:56 PM
Overall, I like Playstation more than Dreamcast, but I associate the date with Dreamcast way more. Probably because Playstation had such a tepid launch.
alec006
09-09-2012, 10:44 PM
"It's (still) thinking". Mine is, anyway.
It's still thinking it's November 27 1998, damn clock battery lol. Happy birthday Dreamcast!
And to the PlayStation, happy birthday as well. To think, the video game industry as a whole would have been so different if it actually had been a SNES CD add on, kind of interesting to think about.
123►Genei-Jin
09-09-2012, 11:26 PM
Nooo that Playstation killed off my beloved Saturn in the US at least.
Nah, Sega (or should I say Bernie Stolar) killed the Saturn in the US by not bringing all the great japanese exclusive titles.
Nah, Sega (or should I say Bernie Stolar) killed the Saturn in the US by not bringing all the great japanese exclusive titles.
You can't blame the Saturn's failure on any one thing, including Stolar. He didn't take over SOA until mid/late '96 or '97 anyway.
kedawa
09-10-2012, 12:49 AM
"It's (still) thinking". Mine is, anyway.
Mine is thinking about how much fun it will be when Age of the Beast and Sturmwind come out.
Who's laughing now, PS2?
j_factor
09-10-2012, 11:41 AM
You can't blame the Saturn's failure on any one thing, including Stolar. He didn't take over SOA until mid/late '96 or '97 anyway.
The Saturn was already not doing well when he took over, but he certainly caused its death, if not its failure.
wiggyx
09-10-2012, 11:48 AM
Nooo that Playstation killed off my beloved Saturn in the US at least.
The Saturn was stillborn in this country. No help from Sony required.
j_factor
09-10-2012, 01:28 PM
The Saturn was stillborn in this country. No help from Sony required.
If Playstation didn't exist, though, Saturn would've done much better by default. It would've been between Saturn and N64. Now Tomb Raider is a Saturn exclusive, FF7 is probably a Saturn game, etc.
Sony actually offered to partner with Sega. They were nervous about entering the console market.
The Saturn was already not doing well when he took over, but he certainly caused its death, if not its failure.
That's a really simplistic outlook on the causes and effect of the failure of Saturn.
j_factor
09-10-2012, 02:53 PM
That's a really simplistic outlook on the causes and effect of the failure of Saturn.
Only you are talking about the "failure" of the Saturn. The post you quoted said Stolar "killed" the Saturn, which isn't the same thing at all.
wiggyx
09-10-2012, 03:02 PM
If Playstation didn't exist, though, Saturn would've done much better by default. It would've been between Saturn and N64. Now Tomb Raider is a Saturn exclusive, FF7 is probably a Saturn game, etc.
Sony actually offered to partner with Sega. They were nervous about entering the console market.
You can't cite a lack of (some) competition as a recipe for success. It may have done better, I'll give you that. But you can't assume that it would have been a success without the PS. You're also just assuming that Tomb Raider and FF7 would have been exclusives or even exist at all. I could just as easily speculate that all the MMX titles would have been N64 exclusives along with Resident Evil, or Tekken, etc.
Gamevet
09-10-2012, 03:23 PM
You can't cite a lack of (some) competition as a recipe for success. It may have done better, I'll give you that. But you can't assume that it would have been a success without the PS. You're also just assuming that Tomb Raider and FF7 would have been exclusives or even exist at all. I could just as easily speculate that all the MMX titles would have been N64 exclusives along with Resident Evil, or Tekken, etc.
Tomb Raider started out as a Saturn exclusive, so that's a given. Final Fantasy VII might have stayed on the N64 though.
SparTonberry
09-10-2012, 03:38 PM
If Playstation didn't exist, though, Saturn would've done much better by default. It would've been between Saturn and N64. Now Tomb Raider is a Saturn exclusive, FF7 is probably a Saturn game, etc.
Sony actually offered to partner with Sega. They were nervous about entering the console market.
Sega felt they didn't need to partner with the company that made Make My Video and Last Action Hero.
Only you are talking about the "failure" of the Saturn. The post you quoted said Stolar "killed" the Saturn, which isn't the same thing at all.
What I quoted basically said "Bernie didn't do X so Saturn failed/died." I was merely pointing out there were many things that contributed to the Saturn's demise. Several things "killed"/made the Saturn "fail." Bernie took the lead at SOA in the middle of a shit storm and did what he thought was best. From a creative standpoint he did the right thing. Dreamcast's library was and is stunning and highly influential.
Simply saying Bernie "killed" or made the Saturn "fail" is not evening hinting at the full story.
j_factor
09-10-2012, 03:54 PM
What I quoted basically said "Bernie didn't do X so Saturn failed/died." I was merely pointing out there were many things that contributed to the Saturn's demise. Several things "killed"/made the Saturn "fail." Bernie took the lead at SOA in the middle of a shit storm and did what he thought was best. From a creative standpoint he did the right thing. Dreamcast's library was and is stunning and highly influential.
Failed and died are not the same thing. I don't know why you're conflating the two. "Saturn failed" is a general statement. "Saturn died" is something that happened in 1998.
Bernie Stolar made the decisions for the US market, including what games to release. He decided not to release more Saturn games. Therefore, he killed it.
TonyTheTiger
09-10-2012, 04:11 PM
Overall, I like Playstation more than Dreamcast, but I associate the date with Dreamcast way more. Probably because Playstation had such a tepid launch.
Sega pushed the 9/9/99 thing pretty hard which makes it somewhat more memorable in relation to the Dreamcast. But to call the PlayStation launch tepid? It was easily a better launch than the majority of consoles if we're talking literal day 1 and not a more open "launch window" period.
Failed and died are not the same thing. I don't know why you're conflating the two. "Saturn failed" is a general statement. "Saturn died" is something that happened in 1998.
Bernie Stolar made the decisions for the US market, including what games to release. He decided not to release more Saturn games. Therefore, he killed it.
I'm really not, and my overall statement stands. You continue to simplify what happened. Your statement distorts what really happened. To think SOJ didn't OK the discontinuation of Saturn in America is one example.
I'm happy to agree to disagree and return this thread to its original purpose: to honor DC and PS, and arguably SNES.
SpaceFlea
09-10-2012, 05:06 PM
Bernie Stolar made the decisions for the US market, including what games to release. He decided not to release more Saturn games. Therefore, he killed it.
I recall reading an interview a while back that Stolar was hired specifically to lay the Saturn down and guide the company into its next project. And that's exactly what he did. It's the folks that chose to hire him for that task, knowing full well his tendencies, who really killed it. But I wonder if they ever realized he'd do it with such unrelenting efficiency that it'd tarnish Sega's name forever.
j_factor
09-10-2012, 05:36 PM
Sega pushed the 9/9/99 thing pretty hard which makes it somewhat more memorable in relation to the Dreamcast. But to call the PlayStation launch tepid? It was easily a better launch than the majority of consoles if we're talking literal day 1 and not a more open "launch window" period.
Absolutely tepid. There are some games that a lot of people think of as Playstation launch games, but they weren't. On 9-9-95, there was no Tekken, Wipeout, Destruction Derby, Warhawk, or Jumping Flash. This is the PSX launch: Air Combat, Battle Arena Toshinden, ESPN Extreme Games, Kileak, NBA Jam T.E., Power Serve 3D Tennis, Rayman, Ridge Racer, Street Fighter: The Movie, Raiden Project, Total Eclipse Turbo. That's it. There have been worse launch lineups, and launches were less emphasized back then, but I wouldn't call that a great or even good selection of games. They did at least try to cover different bases, but some of those games suck and others are multiplatform.
wiggyx
09-10-2012, 05:37 PM
Tomb Raider started out as a Saturn exclusive, so that's a given. Final Fantasy VII might have stayed on the N64 though.
The Saturn and PS1 versions were released 2 weeks apart from each other. Not exclusive, by any stretch.
kupomogli
09-10-2012, 05:52 PM
You can't cite a lack of (some) competition as a recipe for success. It may have done better, I'll give you that. But you can't assume that it would have been a success without the PS. You're also just assuming that Tomb Raider and FF7 would have been exclusives or even exist at all. I could just as easily speculate that all the MMX titles would have been N64 exclusives along with Resident Evil, or Tekken, etc.
Final Fantasy 7 wouldn't have been on the N64, I don't believe. With N64 being a cartridge based game, they size of the game would have been extremely limited due to that.
You could also argue that Mega Man X and Resident Evil would be N64 exclusives, but Mega Man X4, Resident Evil, and multiple Capcom fighting games were released on the Saturn. If it wasn't for the Playstation and all the games that Saturn was getting that N64 wasn't, atleast early on, I'd say that Saturn would have done as good or almost as good as the PSX.
Haoie
09-11-2012, 04:56 AM
9/9
Auspicious date, why?
wiggyx
09-11-2012, 11:56 AM
Final Fantasy 7 wouldn't have been on the N64, I don't believe. With N64 being a cartridge based game, they size of the game would have been extremely limited due to that.
You could also argue that Mega Man X and Resident Evil would be N64 exclusives, but Mega Man X4, Resident Evil, and multiple Capcom fighting games were released on the Saturn. If it wasn't for the Playstation and all the games that Saturn was getting that N64 wasn't, atleast early on, I'd say that Saturn would have done as good or almost as good as the PSX.
Ugh. I'm not trying to make a case for these games being exclusive to any one system. Quite the opposite actually. My point is that there's no point in speculating or assuming, which is what you're doing.
TonyTheTiger
09-11-2012, 01:18 PM
Absolutely tepid. There are some games that a lot of people think of as Playstation launch games, but they weren't. On 9-9-95, there was no Tekken, Wipeout, Destruction Derby, Warhawk, or Jumping Flash. This is the PSX launch: Air Combat, Battle Arena Toshinden, ESPN Extreme Games, Kileak, NBA Jam T.E., Power Serve 3D Tennis, Rayman, Ridge Racer, Street Fighter: The Movie, Raiden Project, Total Eclipse Turbo. That's it. There have been worse launch lineups, and launches were less emphasized back then, but I wouldn't call that a great or even good selection of games. They did at least try to cover different bases, but some of those games suck and others are multiplatform.
So you call it tepid and then list some of the best games of 1995? I'll put it this way, while launches generally suck as a whole, if the PlayStation's launch was tepid then most every other launch was even worse. Really, of all console launches the Dreamcast and PlayStation are both the closest thing to what could qualify as good launches.
BlastProcessing402
09-11-2012, 04:26 PM
Final Fantasy 7 wouldn't have been on the N64, I don't believe. With N64 being a cartridge based game, they size of the game would have been extremely limited due to that.
Or so Square's marketing hype for FF7 would have you believe.
If not for PSX, FF7 would have been on N64, no doubt. Would it have to have been altered, sure, but there's no reason they couldn't have put out an FF on a cart. They just would've had to do without the loads of FMV.
Btw, it's my account's 1 year birthday today!:bday::bday::bday:
j_factor
09-11-2012, 04:43 PM
So you call it tepid and then list some of the best games of 1995? I'll put it this way, while launches generally suck as a whole, if the PlayStation's launch was tepid then most every other launch was even worse. Really, of all console launches the Dreamcast and PlayStation are both the closest thing to what could qualify as good launches.
Which of those are the best games of 1995?! Jam and Rayman are great, but they were multiplatform (and Jam was old news). Total Eclipse is pretty good, but it's just a 3DO port. Raiden Project is also decent, but I wouldn't call it one of the best shooters. I liked ESPN Extreme Games, but I've taken a lot of flak for it so I don't think that's a well-liked game. Kileak and Toshinden are shit. Air Combat is mediocre at best and the game was three years old by then. Power Serve and SF: The Movie are pretty poor.
None of these are really must-have games for the Playstation. Look at any top PSX games thread, or "recommend me some PSX games", or anything like that, on any message board. These games just don't come up, except maybe Rayman, which is the best of the bunch, but there's no particular reason you specifically need the PSX version.
wiggyx
09-11-2012, 04:56 PM
^^^ I'm with this guy.
The SNES launch wasn't bad at all. Although, back then, we didn't expect there to be 50 filler titles at launch. 4 or 5 solid titles (which is what the SNES launched with) were all that it really took IMO. I'd take that sort of launch over almost every modern console launch save for maybe the Wii, and that's only because it's the 1st time a Nintendo console launched with a Zelda title.
kedawa
09-11-2012, 09:42 PM
TP was better on GC, though.
You can't count that!
o.pwuaioc
09-11-2012, 10:13 PM
^^^ I'm with this guy.
The SNES launch wasn't bad at all. Although, back then, we didn't expect there to be 50 filler titles at launch. 4 or 5 solid titles (which is what the SNES launched with) were all that it really took IMO. I'd take that sort of launch over almost every modern console launch save for maybe the Wii, and that's only because it's the 1st time a Nintendo console launched with a Zelda title.
Seriously. The US SNES launch had only 5 games (SMW and F-Zero for Japanese launch, and Pilotwings, SimCity, and Gradius III additionally available for US launch), but all five are still worth having, and unlike previous launches and every other later launch, there were no filler games that could accidentally be purchased and regretted.
SpaceHarrier
09-11-2012, 10:23 PM
Whoa. My 3 favorite systems launched sort of on the same day?! Awesome!
:) Happy birthday and RIP to all 3! :puppydogeyes:
TonyTheTiger
09-12-2012, 11:16 AM
Which of those are the best games of 1995?! Jam and Rayman are great, but they were multiplatform (and Jam was old news). Total Eclipse is pretty good, but it's just a 3DO port. Raiden Project is also decent, but I wouldn't call it one of the best shooters. I liked ESPN Extreme Games, but I've taken a lot of flak for it so I don't think that's a well-liked game. Kileak and Toshinden are shit. Air Combat is mediocre at best and the game was three years old by then. Power Serve and SF: The Movie are pretty poor.
None of these are really must-have games for the Playstation. Look at any top PSX games thread, or "recommend me some PSX games", or anything like that, on any message board. These games just don't come up, except maybe Rayman, which is the best of the bunch, but there's no particular reason you specifically need the PSX version.
"Best of 1995" doesn't mean "best ever." In 1995, Extreme Games, Ridge Racer, and Battle Arena Toshinden were a big deal (and they are all hardly shit, anyway). A launch is a very specific period of time, the quality of which can't fairly be measured up against the subsequent life of the console. People don't buy into launches because game X will be remembered as a great game. They don't buy into a launch because somebody will recommend a launch title to them 20 years later on a website. They buy into launches because they want to play game X right now. And the PlayStation had a pretty good number of those "right now" games, especially since they hit many different genres with admirable results. Again, if the PlayStation's launch was tepid, most other launches were worse. Many launches saw so few games you could count them on one hand.
Gamevet
09-12-2012, 01:48 PM
The Saturn and PS1 versions were released 2 weeks apart from each other. Not exclusive, by any stretch.
It started out development as a Saturn exclusive and the Playstation was later added. The game was released a month ahead of the Playstation version in Europe, but got equal billing in North America. Sony obviously slid some cash under the table, as the Tomb Raider franchise continued on as a console exclusive to the Playstation. Even the promotions were all about the Playstation game, even though early development shots talked only about the Saturn game.