I got a new Retro gaming TV that is a dream come true... Check out Bonk on it

[TonyTheTiger]

How does the whole "sync" thing work? I'm guessing different monitors do it differently?

[broken]

The sync signal is used to generate the required timing inside the monitor (or TV) so that a viewable picture can be built up. Otherwise the picture will roll, or be distorted/skewed.

Typical computers via VGA output RGB (at 31KHz) with separate Horizontal and Vertical sync lines, where as the majority of game consoles that have RGB output (at 15KHz) a single "composite" sync for picture sync.

Most euro TV's and many broadcast class monitors (like the Sony PVM's) can also use composite video as the sync signal. Most of these consoles (with the notably exception of the Playstation series) also output a straight composite sync (some refer to it as "raw" sync). However the Euro Scart spec actually calls for using composite video as the sync that's why most Scart cables you buy actually are wired so that composite video is used as sync for RGB rather than composite sync.

Some monitors (like the NEC XM29) need composite sync (or H+V sync) to display the picture and aren't capable of using composite video for the sync information. In that case the cable needs to be rewired for composite sync or you can use a small sync "stripper" circuit (like the LM1881) to pull the sync info out of the composite video and pass along the composite sync to the monitor.



In a nutshell, Sony PVM's are really great retro console monitors. lol

[wingzrow]

Cord came in, and after 30 minutes of comparing original carts on my sega genesis through RGB, and the same games through Component, it looks like RGB beats component.

Colors are much more vivid, while component seemed darker overall.

My two problems are these.

1: The two Audio cables coming out of the euro scart to BNC cable are female, and I only have a female adapter coming out of my amp. I bought this adapter to plug my wii's audio cables into so I can use my amp. As is, I have no way to get audio from any of my systems.

Is there some kind of adapter I can buy at radioshack to get sound going into my amp?

2: when trying to sync the wii in RGB through the Scart to BNC adapter, the entire picture is tinted dark red.

Does the Wii simply not do RGB?

http://i48.tinypic.com/v63sl2.jpg

Example of My Genesis in RGB ( The Game is Mazin Saga Mutant Fighter)

http://i48.tinypic.com/34hgf15.jpg

[broken]

No idea about Wii via RGB. Sounds almost like it's still trying to output component video, but someone else will need to comment on that.


As far as audio is concerned, all you need is a regular stereo patch cord. Male to male connectors. Available at Radio Shack, walmart, target and about anywhere else that sells electronics.


They would look like this:

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/665390376/5-ft-2-RCA-TO-2-RCA-MALE-MALE-font-b-DUAL-b-font-DUBBLING-STEREO.jpg


I built the Scart to BNC cables like this so it allows the end user to use the audio cabling that best suits their needs.

[wingzrow]

Right of course. I had one lying around and now I get sound just fine.

I need to have my sega genesis modded for that "crystal clear audio" mod now, I've got one of the later model 1s with the bad audio chip, and it really shows.

Guess I should mod my N64 for RGB while I'm at it.

This is going to be a slippery slope.

Thanks again broken.

[TonyTheTiger]

The sync signal is used to generate the required timing inside the monitor (or TV) so that a viewable picture can be built up. Otherwise the picture will roll, or be distorted/skewed.

Typical computers via VGA output RGB (at 31KHz) with separate Horizontal and Vertical sync lines, where as the majority of game consoles that have RGB output (at 15KHz) a single "composite" sync for picture sync.

Most euro TV's and many broadcast class monitors (like the Sony PVM's) can also use composite video as the sync signal. Most of these consoles (with the notably exception of the Playstation series) also output a straight composite sync (some refer to it as "raw" sync). However the Euro Scart spec actually calls for using composite video as the sync that's why most Scart cables you buy actually are wired so that composite video is used as sync for RGB rather than composite sync.

Some monitors (like the NEC XM29) need composite sync (or H+V sync) to display the picture and aren't capable of using composite video for the sync information. In that case the cable needs to be rewired for composite sync or you can use a small sync "stripper" circuit (like the LM1881) to pull the sync info out of the composite video and pass along the composite sync to the monitor.



In a nutshell, Sony PVM's are really great retro console monitors. lol

Thanks, those Sony monitors seem like an all around good deal.

[WCP]

Regarding the Wii:


Did you go into the PVM menu and try the other RGB selections ? The first time I hooked up my GameCube in RGB, it had a weird colorization to it, and then I went into the PVM menu (the regular menu, not the service menu). There was some options of how to get the sync from RGB. I can't remember what the selections where, but if you go into the menu, you'll probably see what I'm talking about. You might have already tried that, but just in case you didn't, might as well give it a try.

[wingzrow]

Regarding the Wii:


Did you go into the PVM menu and try the other RGB selections ? The first time I hooked up my GameCube in RGB, it had a weird colorization to it, and then I went into the PVM menu (the regular menu, not the service menu). There was some options of how to get the sync from RGB. I can't remember what the selections where, but if you go into the menu, you'll probably see what I'm talking about. You might have already tried that, but just in case you didn't, might as well give it a try.


Believe me, I tried every setting on the PVM I could. After some google-fu, I've deduced that the Wii displays in RGB, but ONLY if it's in PAL mode. That's right, RGB is locked out through software on NTSC systems.

I'm going to see if the people at GBAtemp can figure this out for me.

Sure I could change my wii's region to pal through hacking, but I think games would play slower (as do all pal games) if I went that route.

[wingzrow]

Here's a few more pictures.

http://i47.tinypic.com/23h7kh3.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/1zczk7p.jpg

[wingzrow]

Hooray for triple posting. I figured out how to get the Wii to display through RGB.

Nintendo locked out NTSC consoles from doing it, so you actually have to force your wii into PAL mode through hacking in order to display any emulators right, otherwise all you get is a red screen, but this allows you to manually set emulators on the system back to NTSC, so it all works out.

If broken is reading this, pass o this info to anyone else with a NTSC Wii that's trying to display in RGB, because it isn't easy.

[dukenukem]

Nice shots man:).I am gonna be getting me one or more of these sony monitors next year with my income tax:).

[WCP]

Here's the thing about playing emulators on the Wii, and then having the Wii output in RGB. You aren't actually gettting "true" RGB from those emulated systems. Now, I'm not going to say that the picture quality is bad or anything, but it's not the true, legtimate, analog RGB that you would get from the actual hardware.

However.... I think there actually is a way to get true, analog RGB from emulated systems, but you would need a PC, along with a special video card, and the specific emulator would have to include an option to allow it to output a RGB signal in the proper way that the special video card could actually send the virtual equivalent of a legit RGB signal. ( I know that sounds confusing ). I'm actually looking into doing the exact same thing myself, except not with emulators of gaming systems, but instead with MAME. There is a special video card that supposedly works with certain versions of MAME, to get a legimiate RGB signal to an analog RGB monitor. It was designed specifically to work with Arcade Cabinents and the monitors inside arcade cabinents (normally a Wells-Gardner monitor).

In theory, it's possible that this could also work with a console emulator, but again, the console emulator would have to be programmed in a way that it could take advantage of the special video card to actually do it.


To make a long story short, I think you're better off playing the real hardware in RGB, and not using emulators on your Wii. I understand the convenience of it all, but just get Everdrive flashcards for your various systems, if you're looking for convenience.

[wingzrow]

Oh believe me, I noticed. Being able to swap between RGB connections on the front of my PVM with the press of a button was a godsend in realizing this.

I may have to get an everdrive eventually just for that reason.

[WCP]

Oh believe me, I noticed. Being able to swap between RGB connections on the front of my PVM with the press of a button was a godsend in realizing this.

I may have to get an everdrive eventually just for that reason.



After getting my PVM, I decided to get Everdrive flashcards for the Genesis and TG-16. They cost almost $90 each with shipping and everything, but well worth it. I've been hardcore into the early Sega Genesis lately, and I just leave the flash cart in there and play tons of games on it.

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

Here's the thing about playing emulators on the Wii, and then having the Wii output in RGB. You aren't actually gettting "true" RGB from those emulated systems. Now, I'm not going to say that the picture quality is bad or anything, but it's not the true, legtimate, analog RGB that you would get from the actual hardware.

However.... I think there actually is a way to get true, analog RGB from emulated systems, but you would need a PC, along with a special video card, and the specific emulator would have to include an option to allow it to output a RGB signal in the proper way that the special video card could actually send the virtual equivalent of a legit RGB signal. ( I know that sounds confusing ). I'm actually looking into doing the exact same thing myself, except not with emulators of gaming systems, but instead with MAME. There is a special video card that supposedly works with certain versions of MAME, to get a legimiate RGB signal to an analog RGB monitor. It was designed specifically to work with Arcade Cabinents and the monitors inside arcade cabinents (normally a Wells-Gardner monitor).

In theory, it's possible that this could also work with a console emulator, but again, the console emulator would have to be programmed in a way that it could take advantage of the special video card to actually do it.


To make a long story short, I think you're better off playing the real hardware in RGB, and not using emulators on your Wii. I understand the convenience of it all, but just get Everdrive flashcards for your various systems, if you're looking for convenience.

How is a Wii not outputting "true" RGB? As far as I know it has no problems outputting SNES games and the like in 240p.

If you are talking about how the Wii might be scaling the color from 8-bit to 16-bit or what-have-you then that is certainly happening, however, I believe that it can be mapped to be functionally identical.

There's also the issue of the bandwidth of the video signal, but that's so far down the rabbit hole it's hard to see the sun :beaten:

[kedawa]

How is a Wii not outputting "true" RGB? As far as I know it has no problems outputting SNES games and the like in 240p.

If you are talking about how the Wii might be scaling the color from 8-bit to 16-bit or what-have-you then that is certainly happening, however, I believe that it can be mapped to be functionally identical.

There's also the issue of the bandwidth of the video signal, but that's so far down the rabbit hole it's hard to see the sun :beaten:

SNES games aren't natively 240p, though.

SNES Video modes:
Progressive: 256 × 224, 512 × 224, 256 × 239, 512 × 239
Interlaced: 512 × 448, 512 × 478

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

The difference between 224 and 240 modes can be a bit tricky. Certain consoles use all the lines for graphics, some of them are just used for blanking. Certain SNES games actually do output 239 lines of graphics, but you are correct in that are usually only showing 224.


However, when I say the Wii is outputting a native resolution signal that means that it is displaying 224 lines plus 16 blanking lines, thus 240p. If you wish you can also say 224p if that makes more sense to you. It should also support all the other modes the SNES is capable of displaying.

[soundguy77]

Just had to register to the forums to share these pics of my Sony PVM w/ Scart to BNC RGB cable. The sharpness alone is completely flawless. It's almost too good. TACK sharp. Pics don't do it justice. The text in NBA Jam speaks for itself.

RGB

http://i47.tinypic.com/112el3t.jpg

Before (Composite)

http://i45.tinypic.com/2mix45.jpg

After (RGB)

http://i47.tinypic.com/2iqetv.jpg

Before (Composite)

http://i46.tinypic.com/qq5zqv.jpg

After (RGB)

http://i46.tinypic.com/2r2o2.jpg

[ccovell]

RGB reveals the dithering in Genesis games, but otherwise it's absolutely beautiful. :grrr::shameful:X_x

[WCP]

Some people think that RGB monitors actually make the Genesis, TG-16, SNES, etc, etc look worse. Because it shows every flaw in the game. They say that the game wasn't really designed to be played in such clarity. That the programmers knew the limitations of the average TV, and actually used those limitations to make their games better, and by using RGB monitors we are defeating the purpose.


To hell with all that. All I know is, with RGB, it's clear, it's colorful, it's crisp. Yes, I can see every flaw. But I love the flaws. The flaws add character. They just let you know what era of games that you're playing. The detail is what really makes me smile though... :)

[substantial_snake]

Some people think that RGB monitors actually make the Genesis, TG-16, SNES, etc, etc look worse. Because it shows every flaw in the game. They say that the game wasn't really designed to be played in such clarity. That the programmers knew the limitations of the average TV, and actually used those limitations to make their games better, and by using RGB monitors we are defeating the purpose.


To hell with all that. All I know is, with RGB, it's clear, it's colorful, it's crisp. Yes, I can see every flaw. But I love the flaws. The flaws add character. They just let you know what era of games that you're playing. The detail is what really makes my smile though... :)


I really wish now that I jumped on that ebay seller you posted earlier in this thread!

The shots here are already significantly better theneven my Scart-RGB settup here, really envious now. lol

[Gameguy]

RGB reveals the dithering in Genesis games, but otherwise it's absolutely beautiful. :grrr::shameful:X_x
That's the first thing I noticed when I saw those pics, it's just not looking right.

[StealthLurker]

Picked up a NOS PVM-20M2MDU last night. VERY HAPPY.

PVM number 5. RGB CRT number 8.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/NOS_PVM.jpg

.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

I just bought a Sony bvm on eBay for 250 shipped and now im on the hunt for individual playstation and Saturn scart cables, i already posted this in broken's scart sale thread over in the neo geo forums but figured i might as well ask here to


Are there any particular euro scart cables i should be on the lookout for or trying to avoid? I already kno about Japanese scart cables


Also is it worth it to buy phono adapters for playstation component cables to hook up my original 60 gig ps3 to play ps2 games exclusively?

Would there even be any appreciable difference using this method over just running component or hdmi to my LCD? I guess I just want to see what ps2 games look like in rgb on the Sony bvm

[WCP]

I just bought a Sony bvm on eBay for 250 shipped

Wow, that's very dangerous man. I hope everything works out, and you get one in great condition and it lasts you a very long time, but it's certainly a bit dangerous to be paying that much for a PVM (even a BVM) off Ebay that you can't personally verify that it's up to par. I hope the one you got is like 2002 or newer, and has lower hours on it. If you end up getting one in great condition, it will certainly be worth every penny you spent, but it's still a bit of a gamble to buy one off Ebay like that. I would normally prefer to find one in driving distance, and actually drive to the place and test it out, to make sure I'm getting something up to par. I've had some bad experiences in the past with various used PVM monitors. I will say that usually my bad experiences have come from PVM's from the late 90's, and your BVM is probably much newer.





Also is it worth it to buy phono adapters for playstation component cables to hook up my original 60 gig ps3 to play ps2 games exclusively?

Would there even be any appreciable difference using this method over just running component or hdmi to my LCD? I guess I just want to see what ps2 games look like in rgb on the Sony bvm


Well, I know that if you hooked up an actual PS2 system to your BVM, you will notice a difference between how it looks on your BVM, and how it looks in component. If you had two PS2's, you could actually do a side by side comparison. The difference isn't going to be very substantial, but you'll notice a slight improvement in the overall visual quality. I remember playing San Andreas on a nice big HDTV in component, and then playing it on my RGB monitor, and there was definitely a slight difference. It wasn't huge, but it's there.


I'm guessing it would be the same thing with your phat PS3, but I've never tried it myself.

[WCP]

Picked up a NOS PVM-20M2MDU last night. VERY HAPPY.



Where did you find that ? Ebay ? I know that there was a guy that had a warehouse of those monitors brand new, although a few of the buyers claimed that maybe they all weren't new, but most of them were. Something like that. Man, honestly, I should have tried to get one from that guy too, just to have as backup. These are the last of their kind. Eventually they will all be extinct. All the good ones will be in the hands of hardcore retrogamers that are hip to RGB. I really should try to find another one in mint condition and just sit on it, lol... Keep it stored away for it's eventual use...

[PreZZ]

Well I plugged in my three adapters and have tried both my wii AND my ps2's component cables, and the monitor gives me a green or red vertical hold.

Am I doing something wrong?

http://i45.tinypic.com/noy2oy.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/28sgpk.jpg

When I saw you actually used a regular component cable on rgb with the phono to bnc plugs i tried this on my sony pvm 20n6u, it doesnt work. I tried the ext sync and sync on green options in the menu and it doesnt work.

[theclaw]

15khz RGB from the PS2 is compliant with SCART standards, who do not use sync on green.

[WCP]

You have to go into the PS2 menu and change it to component output.

But why use component anyways ? Just order one of those adapters from the dude on neo-geo.com forums. then you can get Scart cables for all your systems. The PS1 scart cable should work on the PS2 as well.

[theclaw]

Yeah either way if PS2 is set at RGB with a component cable connected... That leads to not enough video pins for 15khz to possibly work.
Red / Green / Blue / Sync would be four.

[StealthLurker]

Where did you find that ? Ebay ? I know that there was a guy that had a warehouse of those monitors brand new, although a few of the buyers claimed that maybe they all weren't new, but most of them were. Something like that. Man, honestly, I should have tried to get one from that guy too, just to have as backup. These are the last of their kind. Eventually they will all be extinct. All the good ones will be in the hands of hardcore retrogamers that are hip to RGB. I really should try to find another one in mint condition and just sit on it, lol... Keep it stored away for it's eventual use...

Well I lucked out again. I got 2 more Sony PVMs, 2030s to be exact (20"). Best of all they came with the rare "hard travel" cases.

On top of that they each have only 50 hrs of use on them. Also both came with the optional stereo speakers and remote controls.

Now I'm rockin' 7 of these RGB PVM units. =) Plenty of backups for the future.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/Wondermegas/PVM1_zps73c4857b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/Wondermegas/PVM4_zpsa27f8dc6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/Wondermegas/PVM3_zps7aabefc5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/Wondermegas/PVM2_zps06abcf24.jpg

.

[PreZZ]

You have to go into the PS2 menu and change it to component output.

But why use component anyways ? Just order one of those adapters from the dude on neo-geo.com forums. then you can get Scart cables for all your systems. The PS1 scart cable should work on the PS2 as well.

cant pm the guy, im not able since im new. Anyway ill order the ones from retrocables uk, but i still want to try just to see the quality of the picture meanwhile.

[PreZZ]

Setting the ps2 on component made the screen stop flickering and the image is super sharp, but everything is green! I can unplug the R and B inputs and the image is the same, they dont do anything. I also have to select sync on green to see the image.

[StealthLurker]

Yes you're going to have that problem. The people that posted earlier were trying to tell you that.

Sony likes to use "Sync on Green" (SoC) with component video on their systems. Also your model PVM does not have a quick easy "switch" to support SoC (the 2030, 2530, 2930 PVMs do however, I just need to flip a switch on the back).

However for the PVM-20M2MDU PDF manual it states "b/b-y in BNC connector R,G,B Channels 0.7V p-p +/-6dB Sync on Green 0.3V p-p negative"

For the model PVM you have in the pic, you probably need:

1. PS2 RGB SCART cable (uses composite sync instead)
2. Female SCART to BNC cable (the one's broken is selling in the earlier posts)

3. Then set your PS2 to output in RGB


PS2 in RGB on my Sony PVM-2530.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/HDTV%20tate/resized/shmup4.jpg

.

[WCP]

I've owned four different PVM-2530's and they all had one major flaw that forced me to get rid of them.

When they are working great, they are pretty awesome being so large, but every one that I got had a major issue. Of course, all of them were from the mid to late 90's, and they all probably had major hours on them. It's rare to find a late model with low hours on it.

[StealthLurker]

I've owned four different PVM-2530's and they all had one major flaw that forced me to get rid of them.

When they are working great, they are pretty awesome being so large, but every one that I got had a major issue. Of course, all of them were from the mid to late 90's, and they all probably had major hours on them. It's rare to find a late model with low hours on it.


Yes, the 30s are the older models. That's why it was such a "big win" to source the units I've found with very low usage. The latest pair was 50 hrs or less. Got it from a guy that worked in movies. He bought the pair in case he wanted to work from home. Never really did... but now he's shifted to the new PVM flatpanels so he had no use for them. Guy was funny though because he kept trying to make sure they were going to a "good home". Though he didn't use them much, he kept referring to them as his babies.

The other 2 I have were low as well. About 70-100 hrs of use logged on them.

For the newer model PVMs I have I don't know except for the NOS in box one I have. Opened it up, tested it out... seems like it truly was NOS. The other used, newer PVMs don't know... but since their production dates are more recent they probably have a decent amount of life left in them.

However I do prefer the 30s over all not only because of their size, but they have more inputs, the easy switch on the back for Sync on Green, better handles imho, the stereo speakers are a nice little touch and the light up front controls are kinda cool too.

.

[bodine1231]

Can someone please link to a good place to buy one at a good price? There are so many PVM models I'm not which to get. I've looked on eBay but some of the asking prices are north of 500.00!

[StealthLurker]

Can someone please link to a good place to buy one at a good price? There are so many PVM models I'm not which to get. I've looked on eBay but some of the asking prices are north of 500.00!

Where are you located/city?

.

[bodine1231]

Where are you located/city?

.

Baton Rouge Louisiana

I just found this forum and trying to get caught up as I sold my old systems/games a long time ago. I have some VC games and played alot of emulated stuff but none of them look right to me so I decided to try and pick up a monitor to play the actual systems on. I don't even have the system/games yet (thinking about going the flash cart route) but I thought I might as well get a great monitor first.

Edit: is this the cable I would need for the television?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Nintendo-stereo-RGB-SCART-lead-FULLY-SHIELDED-GROUNDED-cable-cord-US-SNES-/200913494420?pt=US_Video_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2ec760a194

[bodine1231]

I managed to pick up a PVM-20M4U for 145 shipped on eBay. It was made in 1999,however the buyer told me he purchased it new that year and that he is a producer in a small town and it has seen very little use. All I need now is the cables and I'll be all set. I tried contacting the guy who makes them but haven't received a responce. Does anyone have a link on how to make them yourself and the parts you'll need?

[StealthLurker]

I managed to pick up a PVM-20M4U for 145 shipped on eBay. It was made in 1999,however the buyer told me he purchased it new that year and that he is a producer in a small town and it has seen very little use. All I need now is the cables and I'll be all set. I tried contacting the guy who makes them but haven't received a responce. Does anyone have a link on how to make them yourself and the parts you'll need?

http://www.retrogamingcables.com/sony-pvm-scart-converter-bnc.html

.

[Archimboldi]

I'm interested in the PVM-20M2MDU, as it seems to go for $150 shipped on average. I know 2d pixels will look incredible, but how about, say, PS1 games with dat ugly 3D? It's been that or s-video on a crt.

[Zing]

I initially preferred composite for PSone, but after giving it another try, I realized just how much detail I was missing, and that smoke/dithering effects didn't look much worse. I don't even notice the sharpness now.

[WCP]

I'm interested in the PVM-20M2MDU, as it seems to go for $150 shipped on average. I know 2d pixels will look incredible, but how about, say, PS1 games with dat ugly 3D? It's been that or s-video on a crt.

One thing you'll notice with RGB on the PS1, is that the little butterflies that are flying around at the beginning of Crash Bandicoot are quite a bit more detailed than you'd realize playing composite or S-Video. It's little things like that, that make RGB better. On the downside, you will see all the seams and every little flaw that might not be as noticeable with a crappier signal. I still prefer the extra detail, even though it does make the flaws a bit more noticeable.

[Archimboldi]

yeah, I'm working through all this right now.

Let me know if I have my info correct after some googling hours:
--It's gonna be very tough to find a smaller 15 - 20 inch CRT TV with s-video
--I would have to get a modded cable of some sort to do RGB with my u.s. PSone, which I'd need to use one of these nice medical monitors
--no sound output from the monitors and i'm not sure how a RGB cable would work with audio cables from a PSone (I might be misunderstanding RGB though)

thinking about just waiting till I move, then snagging one of those 1000s of hulking Trinitrons that are all over craigslist for cheap

[Ed Oscuro]

If that monitor (in the OP) could talk: "Finally, I'm displaying something that isn't the inside of somebody's colon! Wait...these lava textures...bad memories bad memories"

Anyway, it's a nice one. You don't particularly need a medical monitor, and the PVM and especially the BVM (Broadcast Video Monitor) lines are as good and even better.

One thing that is nice about some of these units is that the sets can take relatively crummy signals, and "sharpen" them up a bit with better definition than you might see plugging into a consumer TV. I'm not sure exactly what causes this but sets with higher TV lines specifications seem to do this better than others.

Here's a visual example of two pro-grade Sony monitors handling an NES signal - one does notably better than the other:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=863024#p863024

For PlayStation, I'm interested to have a look at S-Video versus other things. I think that a good TV actually can show all the sharpness of a Sony game well. Speaking of this, it shouldn't be impossible - within the US - to find S-Video and component input-equipped TVs locally. Component input on TVs, that aren't weird 1080i models with "Digital Reality Creation" garbage, are difficult but hopefully not impossible to find. I've got a good one myself now, and MSX2+ looks perfect on it, even with good ol' composite video. I already was fairly happy with the TV it replaced, but what I've got now is even better. I recall that Vagrant Story looked really nice even on the previous set, for example, and I didn't notice any missing detail compared to the partial emulation run I had (and screenshots I took) some years back.

One nice thing about component input is that you can translate RGB to component (NOT by plugging YPbPr cables into RGB plugs, however) with a little converter box. I don't believe there's really any practical benefit to RGB in many situations, except that it tends to be supported by much better sets. If you have to stick with a regular CRT teevee, though, you definitely won't do wrong if you can convert the signal. They're essentially identical quality-wise; the component just has a few (essentially lagless, as far as I know) simple steps to recover the RGB information.

[WCP]

yeah, I'm working through all this right now.

Let me know if I have my info correct after some googling hours:
--It's gonna be very tough to find a smaller 15 - 20 inch CRT TV with s-video
--I would have to get a modded cable of some sort to do RGB with my u.s. PSone, which I'd need to use one of these nice medical monitors
--no sound output from the monitors and i'm not sure how a RGB cable would work with audio cables from a PSone (I might be misunderstanding RGB though)

thinking about just waiting till I move, then snagging one of those 1000s of hulking Trinitrons that are all over craigslist for cheap


Here's the thing... If you get a PVM or BVM, the vast majority of them have the same type of hookup. That one dude that is on the neo-geo forums, and the Atari age forums makes a special adapter for Sony PVM's, that will accept Euro Scart cables. You can get Euro Scart cables for various systems on Ebay for pretty damn cheap. That's the best way to go, no muss, no fuss.

The medical Sony monitors do have a single mono speaker. I've actually used that speaker a number of times, when I can't use the main stereo for some reason. Still, you never really want to use the sound from any TV. The speakers inside TV's are usually crappy, about 90 percent of the time. You're much better off running the audio through a stereo receiver and a pair of speakers. You can always get powered PC speakers, and just use those. Just need a radio shack adapter for 5 bucks and you're in business.

Also, pretty much all the Sony PVM's also have S-Video. That includes the 20 inch ones and the 13 inch ones. Just look on the back of the PVM to make sure, but I've only see a few models that didn't have S-Video. They also all do composite video as well, just need a little BNC adapter for the plugs. (again... Radio Shack)

[Archimboldi]

Thanks guys, that inches me closer to one of those Sony models...they're even fairly reasonable on ebay. The pics are all very nice. as for "medical monitor" I guess I was using that as a generic descriptor hehe

How does audio out work with the scart? I do have some Swans M-10s that would be killer with PSone.

Ed Oscuro-- the problem with s-video equipped TVs is that there don't seem to be many in the smaller TV range, 15"-20", as far as I can tell.

Learning how to adjust these monitors would be kind of a fun project too, as long as I don't destroy it somehow.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, that's true. I'm not aware of ANY Sony professional monitors (PVM or BVM lines) that are less than 70 pounds while remaining 20 inches or larger. Many 20 inch models are actually 100 pounds. Stuff gets really heavy as you add on the extra inches. Interestingly, the consumer sets, like the KV-27FS120, aren't always as heavy (weight on that model, which is 27", is 109 pounds, but it feels every ounce too - very awkward to carry); part of it might be a less rigid cabinet made of plastic instead of metal, and no "cube" design either.

However, if you can do at least 20" models, PVMs are a good set, if you can find some that are cheaper and lighter. I'm idly considering one myself but I ought to get some other stuff first.

[theclaw]

Playstation was RGB ready at launch, according to its Japanese box.

Early models shouldn't need scart audio. SCPH-1000 line has RCA jacks.

[XYXZYZ]

Did they make any of these fancy monitors larger than 20"?

[bb_hood]

Did they make any of these fancy monitors larger than 20"?

I think so, someone on CL in my area had a 27 inch one, or so the ad said. he wanted 150$ for it, and wouldnt take less. It was gone in a week.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

My bvm just came in and i can't get anything to run except my ops using psn component cables and phono to bnc plugs.


My saturn and ps1 games all come up with a red tint and the picture is all over the place like there is no vertical sync, am i doing something wrong?

This is how I have it connected, ps1 > scart cable > female scart to bnc > bnc to analog bnc card, I have 4 cables for video, green, blue, red and yellow, since there is no yellow plug on the back i assume thats sync so i plug it in but i get nothing



Also how can I tell if my controller unit is busted? I bought a 9 pin serial cable but it doesn't seem to be recognized, any help???

[Ed Oscuro]

Did they make any of these fancy monitors larger than 20"?
Yes, although those will get way heavier than 100 pounds really quickly.

There's various 32" models out there, and NEC's XM29 / XM29+ have been popular gaming monitors for a long time too. I'd like them but I can't imagine I'd be able to move them around.

A fun thing to do is to look up the various models of BVM / PVM in Google, adding the word "weight" to your query.

[bodine1231]

I just got my 20m4u in today. I'm at work so I only had a chance to play with it during lunch and have a few questions. Can I use a universal remote for this monitor? The power button works for turning it on but I cant turn it off. Which component inputs should I be using (with/without the ~). And also there is a black bar running down the middle and the picture is mirrored on both sides,how do I adjust that? Thanks and sorry for all the q's.

[StealthLurker]

The Mitsubishi Megaview had a 37" model.

Another nice one people forget about is the Gateway Destination 27" CRT VGA. Only has 1 VGA input but if paired with a Micomsoft XRGB 2+... and or Dreamcast VGA adapter, it looks simply amazing. Max res is about 800 x 600.


.

[StealthLurker]

I just got my 20m4u in today. I'm at work so I only had a chance to play with it during lunch and have a few questions. Can I use a universal remote for this monitor? The power button works for turning it on but I cant turn it off. Which component inputs should I be using (with/without the ~). And also there is a black bar running down the middle and the picture is mirrored on both sides,how do I adjust that? Thanks and sorry for all the q's.


Pretty sure these don't have wireless remote capabilities. Try and find a PDF manual for it online to confirm.


.

[MeTmKnice]

I used to use Dell "P" series CRT's (that are basically Sony Trinitron monitors, just dell branded. The P991 is a 19" monitor and has excellent picture quality. Used them for desktop PC and with an older Viewsonic adapter to run it as a TV.
Also had the Dell P1110 which was a 21" monitor. They can be had relatively cheap. Because of weight shipping can be an issue. I believe that they made them in larger sizes as well, but my experience was msotly with those.
However, and totally overkill for older games, the best monitor I ever owned was a Sony GDM-FW900. 24" widescreen CRT. Enough landscape to view a Tabloid/11x17 sheet paper size. F'n amazing! These had many inputs including bnc connections.
Monoprice has some inexpensive av adapters meow.

[StealthLurker]

Not a PVM/BVM or NEC but...

Picked up a second Gateway DL27-1 last Saturday afternoon. Basically a 27" CRT VGA monitor. I forgot how amazing stuff looks on this. Especially retro via an XRGB2+ or Dreamcast VGA adapter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/May2013_FirstWave/Gateway/Gateway_16_zps57f16d5a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/May2013_FirstWave/Gateway/Gateway_1_zpsa4d2bb10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/May2013_FirstWave/Gateway/Gateway_21_zpsa9fb1995.jpg


Dirty 68k emu, but still looks great. ChoRenSha 68k looks especially amazing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/May2013_FirstWave/Gateway/Gateway_22_zps012e5e12.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/May2013_FirstWave/Gateway/Gateway_5_zps976bcd0a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/jviloria/May2013_FirstWave/Gateway/Gateway_17_zps2d2f9ef5.jpg


.

[8-Bit Archeology]

Its hard to find a good retro gaming set around me. But seeing this thread urged me to look a bit more. Today I bought a Sony Trinitron KZ-1981R. Not a bad picture and clear stereo sound. 5 Bucks. Its good for a budget retro tv. Still gonna search for a good PVM. And I am on the lookout for a bigger tube tv for retro light guns.

[Ed Oscuro]

I used to use Dell "P" series CRT's (that are basically Sony Trinitron monitors, just dell branded. The P991 is a 19" monitor and has excellent picture quality. Used them for desktop PC and with an older Viewsonic adapter to run it as a TV.
I once bought the Sony version of this from the local thrift, and it had problems. Unfortunately I compounded the problem by buying a cable to interface the monitor with Sony's servicing software (serial port only, also, so it won't play well with new computers)...never did get that to work. Was a nice looking thing too, what a shame.

I guess I've had a bit of a change of heart on these monitors - The 20L5 is nice for having progressive scan support (maybe requires a special input board, though) but the endoscopy monitors are fine and have great quality. Some monitors are better on account of having a comb filter, like the NES composite comparison pictures I posted earlier from Necronopticus at Shmups Forum, and it's not clear that the TV Lines does much at all for picture quality here. With luck I'll find a nicely-sized, not too heavy, and affordable 19 or 20 incher nearby someday.

[WCP]

I finally got around to hooking up the Atari Jaguar to the PVM-20M2MDU monitor.


http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g428/WCP12/TrevorMcFurr1_zps7f541d8f.jpg (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/WCP12/media/TrevorMcFurr1_zps7f541d8f.jpg.html)
Trevor McFurr in the Crescent Galaxy

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g428/WCP12/TrevorMcFurr3_zps08f3a56a.jpg (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/WCP12/media/TrevorMcFurr3_zps08f3a56a.jpg.html)
Trevor McFurr in the Crescent Galaxy


http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g428/WCP12/Cybermorph1_zps04d5eeb8.jpg (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/WCP12/media/Cybermorph1_zps04d5eeb8.jpg.html)
Cybermorph

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g428/WCP12/AVP1_zpsad41eea4.jpg (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/WCP12/media/AVP1_zpsad41eea4.jpg.html)
AVP

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g428/WCP12/AVP2_zpse4cf2e30.jpg (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/WCP12/media/AVP2_zpse4cf2e30.jpg.html)
AVP

[LaughingMAN.S9]

Thanks guys, that inches me closer to one of those Sony models...they're even fairly reasonable on ebay. The pics are all very nice. as for "medical monitor" I guess I was using that as a generic descriptor hehe

How does audio out work with the scart? I do have some Swans M-10s that would be killer with PSone.

Ed Oscuro-- the problem with s-video equipped TVs is that there don't seem to be many in the smaller TV range, 15"-20", as far as I can tell.

Learning how to adjust these monitors would be kind of a fun project too, as long as I don't destroy it somehow.

I know im late but i actually use mine with the swan m10 's and for the most part it sounds beautiful, i run the audio outs from the scart breakout cable thru an old component switchbox then feed it into a pioneer receiver and from there to the swans

The official sony scart cables also have rca outs via plug in composite cables that you can run direct to an amp/dac


Word to the wise, use ebay only as a last resort or if you find an incredible deal, my first bvm came in completely beat to shit, the entire bezel was shattered to pieces, screen was scratched and the housing was dented in, had to get a replacement

[Panzerfuzion]

Picked up a 27 inch Sony Trinitron CRT on CL for $10 dollars. It's from 1999, i had been using a Flat Screen 27 Inch CRT Samsung and while very good. I'm amazed at how good games look on a "tube" crt better then the flat screen. Games just have this vintage look on them. I'm impressed I heard people talk about the 90's sony's and they really are amazing. It's this tv but MUCH cleaner.
http://www.wolfness.com/up/files/Sony%20Trinitron%20KV-27S66.jpg