OK is it really worth getting the VGA GRADING ?

[PROTOTYPE]

I have a seal small jewel case version of king fields one in mint condition. [ the small jewel case version is the harder to find of the two ] what do you guy's think?

[Jorpho]

What do you mean by "worth it"? If you're referring to the numbers game, then you'll just have to look at eBay prices and the way they're trending and decide if selling the game as-is will get you more money than whatever profits you'll have left after you get it slabbed and sell it off, either now or at some later date. (However, I imagine the VGA pricing bubble won't endure indefinitely, so you'd probably want to sell it sooner rather than later.)

If you're not interested in selling it, then the question is meaningless.

[theclaw]

Box protectors will do for normal games. And ones valuable enough to want to further minimize shipping damage.

Save VGA for games who warrant it. It'll mark a treasure in your collection or to the right buyers.

[ianoid]

You have to look really closely at the shrinkwrap. Even the smallest tears or damage will downgrade it.

It can be worth doing for 'good' titles, that is, rare sealed stuff or common in demand stuff.

How long will you keep it? In the long long term (10+ years?), my belief is that grading will be worth it for nearly anything that will grade 90 and up. But if you plan to make a quick flip, grading hasn't caught on universally for video games, so you may be wasting your time and money.

If I was a huge fan of a game and I had it mint/sealed, regardless of where value was going, I'd consider having it graded.

If you are using your last dollar to grade something, don't bother. Grading is a luxury item at this point.

If throwing down $50-$100 for an acrylic case sounds like an awesome investment, then it's always time to have your sealed item graded.

[PROTOTYPE]

Well, I do love the game.. Also, I though it cost like 25.00 and anymore then that would be a no go. Just wanted to see what collectors though of the Idea. Would look kind of pretty though :cool:

[Bojay1997]

You have to look really closely at the shrinkwrap. Even the smallest tears or damage will downgrade it.

It can be worth doing for 'good' titles, that is, rare sealed stuff or common in demand stuff.

How long will you keep it? In the long long term (10+ years?), my belief is that grading will be worth it for nearly anything that will grade 90 and up. But if you plan to make a quick flip, grading hasn't caught on universally for video games, so you may be wasting your time and money.

If I was a huge fan of a game and I had it mint/sealed, regardless of where value was going, I'd consider having it graded.

If you are using your last dollar to grade something, don't bother. Grading is a luxury item at this point.

If throwing down $50-$100 for an acrylic case sounds like an awesome investment, then it's always time to have your sealed item graded.

The problem is that getting a 90 on many games is very difficult, even if the game comes out of a factory sealed shipping case. I would say in my experience that most jewel case games that to most collectors look mint sealed grade at between 85 and 85+. I really don't see the point of getting anything graded unless you're just looking to maximize resale value and you know it's something VGA sealed collector's want in that condition and are willing to pay a premium to buy. You can buy a nice acrylic case for a lot less than $50, so there really isn't much point to VGA for someone looking to keep the game in their collection.

[LimitedEditionMuseum]

Why do people say "sell off" instead of just sell? It's only a internet thing, people don't say that in life. Anyway, if you have somthing graded from an unopened factory case it might get an 8 but with a "u" for untouched by hands , this is actually better than a 9.

[Jorpho]

Why do people say "sell off" instead of just sell? It's only a internet thing, people don't say that in life.Yes. Yes they do.

[Superman]

If you are going to keep the game, it isn't worth it because you are basically paying for the acrylic case. Like the others have said, you can get a case for a lot less than what they charge for grading.

If you were looking to sell, it still isn't worth it, becase the game doesn't have a lot of demand/value. So even if some value was gained by grading it, the value gained would very likely be less that what was paid to have it graded.

[MyTurnToPlay]

Why would you waste your money on that VGA crap??? It's nothing but a bunch of bullsh*t. Play your game, enjoy it, and don't support that game grading thieving nonsense that only idiots spend their money on.

thank you.

[AceAerosmith]

Why would you waste your money on that VGA crap??? It's nothing but a bunch of bullsh*t. Play your game, enjoy it, and don't support that game grading thieving nonsense that only idiots spend their money on.

thank you.

Amen, brother. I look at those people as selling a service that is absolutely worthless. Sure, it gives your game a "grade", but the market dictates its true value. It's not worth anything if you can't get someone to give that for it.
Save your money on grading and instead buy another game that you'll actually play and not just set on a shelf and stare at in its stupid acrylic box.

[jonebone]

Well, I do love the game.. Also, I though it cost like 25.00 and anymore then that would be a no go. Just wanted to see what collectors though of the Idea. Would look kind of pretty though :cool:

Yeah it'll be more than $25 so you answered your own question. You have to pay to ship it to VGA, as well as insurance + return shipping too. If you're just subbing one game it's going to be closer to $40-$50 even if you opted for the slowest turnaround time possible (~2 months).

On a title like this, I'd just leave it as-is. I only grade stuff that is 85+ or better, "Mint" to most untrained eyes. As someone already mentioned, I don't see a lot of demand for stuff that grades below gold (85+) in the future. Unless it's something really old next to impossible to find sealed Mint, like DK Jr. Math for example.

[badinsults]

I've yet to find evidence that VGA raises the price on sealed games, except on a handful of sought after games (i.e. first party Nintendo), and the occasional rare as hell game (that Game Boy Bible cart). Virtually all VGA games listed on Ebay do not sell for much higher than their non-graded counterparts.

[xelement5x]

I've yet to find evidence that VGA raises the price on sealed games, except on a handful of sought after games (i.e. first party Nintendo), and the occasional rare as hell game (that Game Boy Bible cart). Virtually all VGA games listed on Ebay do not sell for much higher than their non-graded counterparts.

If they sell at all :3

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

You shouldn't get the VGA grading. It's not about the money. A lot of us don't want the retro game hobby to turn into something akin to baseball card collecting.

[jonebone]

I've yet to find evidence that VGA raises the price on sealed games, except on a handful of sought after games (i.e. first party Nintendo), and the occasional rare as hell game (that Game Boy Bible cart). Virtually all VGA games listed on Ebay do not sell for much higher than their non-graded counterparts.

How many VGA games have you bought and sold exactly? As a buyer on sealed games I most certainly will pay more for a Gold graded copy than a raw copy. Key word is Gold graded. Of course a VGA 60 / 70 / 80 probably isn't selling for more than their non-graded counterparts.

And as a seller on games I've submitted, the price increase is sometimes 400-1000%. Buy raw in Mint condition, get it graded at VGA 90 or higher, and buyers will find you. Easy sell within 24-48 hours everytime unless it's something absurdly expensive ($10,000+) where buyers may need to raise funds. I typically deal with games in the $100s and sometimes small 4 digits, but I don't go much higher than that.

[wiggyx]

I have a seal small jewel case version of king fields one in mint condition. [ the small jewel case version is the harder to find of the two ] what do you guy's think?

Mint as in new and sealed, or mint as in open item? I ask just because the VGA only grades "new" games.

[Bojay1997]

Mint as in new and sealed, or mint as in open item? I ask just because the VGA only grades "new" games.

Actually, VGA does grade opened but allegedly not used games, they just call them "qualified".

[T2KFreeker]

Trend started big time in the comics world.CGC has been slabbing comics for at least ten years. They sold like hotcakes for a bit too. Now, people seem to have come to their senses as they aren't selling anywhere near as good as they used to. I guess people decided they wanted to read the comics and realized that once it's slabbed, it's pretty much a done deal, especially after spending all of that money. There is wisdom here somewhere.

[Bojay1997]

Trend started big time in the comics world.CGC has been slabbing comics for at least ten years. They sold like hotcakes for a bit too. Now, people seem to have come to their senses as they aren't selling anywhere near as good as they used to. I guess people decided they wanted to read the comics and realized that once it's slabbed, it's pretty much a done deal, especially after spending all of that money. There is wisdom here somewhere.

Yep, the VGA grading thing seems to have slowed as well. There haven't been as many record breaking sales lately and I see a lot of stuff just sitting on Ebay for months at a time with no buyers. The stuff graded at 90 or above does seem to still sell quickly, but the reality is that there just isn't much of it out there, so the few collectors who buy it are always competing for it.

[jonebone]

Yep, the VGA grading thing seems to have slowed as well. There haven't been as many record breaking sales lately and I see a lot of stuff just sitting on Ebay for months at a time with no buyers. The stuff graded at 90 or above does seem to still sell quickly, but the reality is that there just isn't much of it out there, so the few collectors who buy it are always competing for it.

It was just one whale buying everything, there's a fine medium somewhere. People looked at those sales and thought that was the basis of all collectors... it's not, it's just one rich guy and his money.

Say a title goes for about $150 sealed on average then someone gets a VGA 90 of it. So they're probably $200 into it themselves. There will be plenty of buyers at the $300 / $400 / $500 level based on the premium grade. The problem is that this title was selling for like $10,000 if the whale needed it, so ignorant buyers assume that's the value on a VGA 90. Yet the real value may have been closer to $1,000, but the market never got to see it.

So prices are still moving up in a steady fashion in you really know the fair value of an item. You just exclude those outlier flukes and sealed games are as healthy as ever.

[wiggyx]

Actually, VGA does grade opened but allegedly not used games, they just call them "qualified".

That's why I put "new" in quotes.

I used mint open versus mint sealed because I was trying to see if it was actually new ;)

[Bojay1997]

That's why I put "new" in quotes.

I used mint open versus mint sealed because I was trying to see if it was actually new ;)

Well, you probably should have stated factory sealed then because there are plenty of PSX games out there being sold as sealed/mint/new that aren't factory sealed.

[Bojay1997]

It was just one whale buying everything, there's a fine medium somewhere. People looked at those sales and thought that was the basis of all collectors... it's not, it's just one rich guy and his money.

Say a title goes for about $150 sealed on average then someone gets a VGA 90 of it. So they're probably $200 into it themselves. There will be plenty of buyers at the $300 / $400 / $500 level based on the premium grade. The problem is that this title was selling for like $10,000 if the whale needed it, so ignorant buyers assume that's the value on a VGA 90. Yet the real value may have been closer to $1,000, but the market never got to see it.

So prices are still moving up in a steady fashion in you really know the fair value of an item. You just exclude those outlier flukes and sealed games are as healthy as ever.

I don't know, it would be interesting to do long term tracking of all sealed sales to get a better sense of fair market values. In my personal experience, prices in general on all sealed games seem to have sort of hit a plauteau in the past few months. I'm not seeing records being hit on non-graded or graded stuff. Maybe that will change if some rarer stuff comes into the market. There does seem to be a glut of VGA stuff graded at 80 and 85 that doesn't seem to be moving at all.

[wiggyx]

Well, you probably should have stated factory sealed then because there are plenty of PSX games out there being sold as sealed/mint/new that aren't factory sealed.

I obviously meant factory sealed. The words "new" and "sealed" are together are pretty hard to misconstrue as "used" but "re-sealed" in this context.

Also, plenty of games have been re-sealed in hopes of selling for new prices. Hardly exclusive to PS games, and they're far from the first generation of games to be subjected to this type of fraudulent misrepresentation.

[PROTOTYPE]

Mint as in new and sealed, or mint as in open item? I ask just because the VGA only grades "new" games.

I obviously meant factory sealed:)

[Bojay1997]

I obviously meant factory sealed. The words "new" and "sealed" are together are pretty hard to misconstrue as "used" but "re-sealed" in this context.

Also, plenty of games have been re-sealed in hopes of selling for new prices. Hardly exclusive to PS games, and they're far from the first generation of games to be subjected to this type of fraudulent misrepresentation.

Except on newer games, you have the Gamestop problem. A gutted game is technically not used, but it's also not factory sealed. My local Gamestop used to even leave the Sony hologram seal on top and just slip the disc out of the bottom of the case. I've also seen new games that have had the Y Fold removed and replaced with shrinkwrap, all without tampering with the Sony seal. Similarly, in the old days, before Sony did the UPC punch out or case spine punch, you could buy new games directly from companies like Atlus that didn't have the Sony seal up top or a Y-Fold and those were sent to Atlus like that direct from Sony's authorized replication facilities. They are clearly new and sealed, but not factory sealed.

[Greg2600]

I do not believe nor condone nor support game grading at all!

[wiggyx]

Except on newer games, you have the Gamestop problem. A gutted game is technically not used, but it's also not factory sealed. My local Gamestop used to even leave the Sony hologram seal on top and just slip the disc out of the bottom of the case. I've also seen new games that have had the Y Fold removed and replaced with shrinkwrap, all without tampering with the Sony seal. Similarly, in the old days, before Sony did the UPC punch out or case spine punch, you could buy new games directly from companies like Atlus that didn't have the Sony seal up top or a Y-Fold and those were sent to Atlus like that direct from Sony's authorized replication facilities. They are clearly new and sealed, but not factory sealed.

Again, nothing new. EB/Babbage's/etc ALL did the same exact thing with every sort of game, whether disc-based or cart or floppy or whatever. We're sort of getting off track at this point.

[ianoid]

Yeah yeah, play your games, never leave them sealed, whatever. It's easy to play games in emulation or find crummy condition stuff that works great to play. It's a lot harder to find stuff in great unopened shape.

I love to play me some games, but you're in denial if you don't acknowledge that there is a collectors' market for video games, and that many will remain sealed as tributes of worship.

I'm not a huge supporter of indiscriminate grading, but if I had a really nice sealed game that I was a huge fan of, I'd consider having it graded, even if that's the only thing I ever had graded. And that has nothing to do with it's eventual value.

If you want to worry about eventual value, it's a much dicier proposition, bordering on speculation when you get beyond the most popular franchises.

[Bojay1997]

Again, nothing new. EB/Babbage's/etc ALL did the same exact thing with every sort of game, whether disc-based or cart or floppy or whatever. We're sort of getting off track at this point.

I'm simply addressing your lazy use of terminology. New/sealed is not the same as new/factory sealed nor is it the same as mint/new.

[Jorpho]

and that many will remain sealed as tributes of worship....

Wow. There are no words.

[PROTOTYPE]

OK, as to the people who say just open and play it.. I did and beat it and I do have two copy's of the game, I got one for a few dollars. For me king field series were Special, just like some other games. Zelda, ect..

[wiggyx]

I'm simply addressing your lazy use of terminology. New/sealed is not the same as new/factory sealed nor is it the same as mint/new.

And I'm addressing your unnecessary splitting of hairs. I would either say "sealed" or "resealed". It's not lazy, just different from your penchant for the term "factory sealed".

[Polygon]

If you ever plan to sell it, yes it probably is on certain titles. If you don't, then don't wast the time. I personally don't care for the grading. It just seems to be an excuse for people to ask asinine prices for games.

[PROTOTYPE]

Well maybe, But to me as a collector its like a piece of art and you want to put it in the best frame you can to show it off to you and me...but the price is to high So game over, if I was rich and money was no big deal? then why not:villagepeople:

[Bojay1997]

And I'm addressing your unnecessary splitting of hairs. I would either say "sealed" or "resealed". It's not lazy, just different from your penchant for the term "factory sealed".

Well, as a collector, I would say that your "different" term leads to problems. I'm coming from the perspective of a number of years of buying factory sealed things on Ebay. When somebody calls something new/sealed, it's not necessarily "factory sealed", although it could be in fact new. Indeed, going back as far as the Atari 2600, distributors and retailers have been sealing games for sale. Those games aren't factory sealed, but they are new and sealed. You may see it as an unimportant distinction, but for sealed collectors it makes a massive difference.

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

I don't think you're going to find much interest here, unfortunately. In general, this is a community that doesn't look too favorably toward VGA.

That's because VGA is a giant rip-off scheme. Uninformed people are paying tens of times, even hundreds of times more than they would for a game in the same condition just because it has a VGA rating. For instance Shenmue, in good shape, goes for $10-20. In mint condition sealed, maybe $60-100. But in that SAME mint, sealed condition but VGA graded it goes for thousands because some people still think a VGA grade means something. It means nothing, it's just a plastic case and a sticker with a number on it. This is nowhere near the worst example I've heard of, I heard of Michael Jackson's Moonwalker going for something like $25,000 a few years ago... a game that, mint and sealed, goes for under $100.

Collecting mint/sealed games is one thing. They should be worth much more, maybe a few times as much as a typical CIB game. A lot of mint/sealed games that are inexpensive (in the $10 range) CIB go for $50+ mint/sealed. But mint/sealed prices, while high compared to CIB and especially loose games, have a reason to be high as they are in perfect condition and are much less common than CIB or loose; it's a small percentage of games that survive decades factory sealed or mint, the vast majority lose their factory seal the day they're first bought. But VGA prices are beyond ridiculous. As a video game collecting community, we must turn our backs on VGA - all of us - and only pay what is reasonable for our games. I would hate to see video game collecting become a hobby that is only accessible to the wealthy.

As for the Golf vs. S-Class analogy, an S-Class costs about 4 times what a Golf costs - about $25,000 vs $100,000. That's a typical gap between a CIB game in okay shape vs. a mint sealed game. VGA is like taking that S-Class and slapping a $10,000,000 price tag on it with a sticker saying "new". No shit, it's new - that's why it's $100,000 in the first place.

[gbpxl]

playing devils advocate here but the one real advantage of VGA is that you KNOW its not a re-seal and the condition is going to be verified. you can only see so much from the pictures on eBay. and if its slabbed, you know it wont get damaged during shipping.

does that warrant the higher price tag? to me it doesnt but to some it does. I just get vibes of "elitism" whenever the subject comes up. Buying a game encased in plastic. yeah not really my thing. you lose all the functionality of it at that point. and you can still keep the game in good condition and play it. my two cents

[Ze_ro]

the one real advantage of VGA is that you KNOW its not a re-seal
I would question their ability to truly tell the difference. There are plenty of people who have access to sealing hardware, and if it came down to making hundreds of dollars by resealing rare boxes with a big rock inside, I think there are people who could pull one over on them. Of course, the buyer will never open the thing and so will be forever in the dark about it, and no one will be there to call out VGA or WATA on their errors.

--Zero

[gbpxl]

I would question their ability to truly tell the difference. There are plenty of people who have access to sealing hardware, and if it came down to making hundreds of dollars by resealing rare boxes with a big rock inside, I think there are people who could pull one over on them. Of course, the buyer will never open the thing and so will be forever in the dark about it, and no one will be there to call out VGA or WATA on their errors.

--Zero

Has that ever actually happened though? I imagine VGA is extremely meticulous with verifying fakes

and your point made me remember something Ive done on my Youtube channel where I weigh legitimate cartridges so you have an ides of what a legit game should be. they should do that with sealed games so as that its one more way to verify authenticity

I used to watch Pawn Stars a lot and people would bring in documents from former presidents and what not and some of it would turn out to be fake. very easy to fake these things. its even worse in the coin collecting hobby. lots of scumbags out there

[ianoid]

I would question their ability to truly tell the difference. There are plenty of people who have access to sealing hardware, and if it came down to making hundreds of dollars by resealing rare boxes with a big rock inside, I think there are people who could pull one over on them. Of course, the buyer will never open the thing and so will be forever in the dark about it, and no one will be there to call out VGA or WATA on their errors.

--Zero

This is absolutely a thing for all grading companies. Grading and slabbing is a matter of trust. We have to trust in the veracity of their validation process. They are not infallible.

VGA cut their teeth on comics and toys. Expanding into video games is not a big reach. WATA is a new company, but I wouldn't necessarily expect them to make more errors.

There are some things that will be easier to grade as sealed confidently side they are harder to fake, like H-seams for Nintendo stuff. They do better with items they have seen before. If you are the first to send them something to grade, it's easier to fake. They use previous items as reference points. I'm sure both companies keep a database for their graders (of which there are probably less than 10 in the world).

I have sent stuff in that has been returned as not original seal, and I agreed with their call. I learned from that loss. Glue seal is the main problem. Often people reseal with double sided tape, which was what they detected and I hadn't thought about.

I believe WATA keeps better records (more public at least), which could matter if a large lot is found to be fake, but I think that's a theoretical advantage.

As most of you probably know, the graded market has accelerated in the last year or two with WATA coming on the scene and more aggressively courting the commodity comic buyers.

I continue to have stuff graded for myself, but I can't use WATA because nearly everything I send in is not a standard size, since I'm grading software in non-standard packaging. I try not to end up with spare graded stuff because outside of Nintendo and Sega, there isn't much of a market for it.

[gbpxl]

I would question their ability to truly tell the difference. There are plenty of people who have access to sealing hardware, and if it came down to making hundreds of dollars by resealing rare boxes with a big rock inside, I think there are people who could pull one over on them. Of course, the buyer will never open the thing and so will be forever in the dark about it, and no one will be there to call out VGA or WATA on their errors.

--Zero

I dont know if i replied this or not but this is where knowing weights comes in handy. coins get faked all the time too but if you know what the exact weight is supposed to be its gonna be too much effort for a counterfeiter to spend all day going through his rock garden looking for the perfect rock thatll weigh exactly the same the contents of a sealed game

[Ryudo]

I want to break open every fucking case of these graded games. Games are meant to be played. Fuck this shit.

[Niku-Sama]

well ok i get that games are meant to be played thing how ever...

When you have a game that your pretty sure there were more made than the number of consoles the game was made for i think its ok to slab a few.

as an example:
I have a sealed copy of pole position for the 2600. Whos going to complain that i put that crap ass game in a plastic box? i'm fairly certain there are thousands more out there that are perfectly playable, more than i can say for the amount of playable ataris systems out there.