Nintendo Wii U REVIEW! [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

Bojay1997

11-16-2012, 09:13 AM

I spent a good time playing the system and enjoyed it very much. If I didn't like the console, the controller or the games, I would have said so. If you get a chance to play it, I think you'll agree. A glowing review of a great product is not a bad thing.

Again, I don't think you understand what a review involves. It's not just a summary of whether or not you liked something. I have one preordered and I am excited about it, but I am also acutely aware of the limitations and flaws in the system and I found your review unbalanced and not helpful from the consumer perspective.

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 09:21 AM

Again, I don't think you understand what a review involves. It's not just a summary of whether or not you liked something. I have one preordered and I am excited about it, but I am also acutely aware of the limitations and flaws in the system and I found your review unbalanced and not helpful from the consumer perspective.

I've done hundreds of reviews for the Comics Buyer's Guide, the All Game Guide, etc., so I know a little something about writing reviews. Notice in the review that I wrote "based on a preview and test-drive I got recently" and "at least judging by what I've seen so far." These are qualifiers that let the reader know that their experience may vary when they get the system home and play numerous games for hundreds of hours. Based on the time I spent playing the Wii U, I didn't see a downside. I went in skeptical, but was stunned by how well the new controller works and how it changes the way games are played.

RCM

11-16-2012, 10:10 AM

I agree with the sentiments expressed by other DPers. This is a reckless fluff 'review' and contributes to the argument that game journalism and criticism is broken. I don't give a shit how many other reviews you've written; this one has clear flaws.

I hope your other stuff is more thoughtful than this.

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 10:20 AM

I hope your other stuff is more thoughtful than this.

I thought about it a lot, and I think the Wii U is a great system, at least judging by what I've played so far.

Frankie_Says_Relax

11-16-2012, 10:22 AM

While "games journalism" (like all journalism) is far from being perfect/ideal all of the time, in all fairness, (and Brett, feel free to clarify/correct) this appears to be, from the impression that I get, a light, local news opinion piece. It's pretty clearly a newspaper article that isn't strictly intended for our ultra-niche/ultra-critical crowd.

This will likely be read by novice gamers/consumers that aren't interested in subjects like frame-rates, lag or 3rd party publishers.

I think I'm correctly seeing the forest for the trees here.

If an article like this was published in an outlet like Kotaku, Destructoid, 1UP, etc. I might raise an eyebrow, but I don't see any reason to be so harsh considering the publication and the reader-base. I'm sure that the Star-Telegram wasn't looking for an investigative expose, just some early user impressions of the system.

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 10:27 AM

While "games journalism" (like all journalism) is far from being perfect/ideal all of the time, in all fairness, (and Brett, feel free to clarify/correct) this appears to be, from the impression that I get, a light, local news opinion piece. It's pretty clearly newspaper article that isn't strictly intended for our ultra-niche/ultra-critical crowd.

This will likely be read by novice gamers/consumers that aren't interested in subjects like frame-rates, lag or 3rd party publishers.

I think I'm correctly seeing the forest for the trees here.

If an article like this was published in an outlet like Kotaku, Destructoid, 1UP, etc. I might raise an eyebrow, but I don't see any reason to be so harsh considering the publication and the reader-base. I'm sure that the Star-Telegram wasn't looking for an investigative expose, just some early user impressions of the system.

Exactly--thanks for stating it so well!

RCM

11-16-2012, 10:34 AM

I thought about it a lot, and I think the Wii U is a great system, at least judging by what I've played so far.

Then it seems you're conflating "initial impressions" with "review." That's a major distinction, regardless of the qualifiers you have hidden in the piece.

While "games journalism" (like all journalism) is far from being perfect/ideal all of the time, in all fairness, (and Brett, feel free to clarify/correct) this appears to be, from the impression that I get, a light, local news opinion piece. It's pretty clearly newspaper article that isn't strictly intended for our ultra-niche/ultra-critical crowd.

This will likely be read by novice gamers/consumers that aren't interested in subjects like frame-rates, lag or 3rd party publishers.

I think I'm correctly seeing the forest for the trees here.

If an article like this was published in an outlet like Kotaku, Destructoid, 1UP, etc. I might raise an eyebrow, but I don't see any reason to be so harsh considering the publication and the reader-base. I'm sure that the Star-Telegram wasn't looking for an investigative expose, just some early user impressions of the system.

That's like saying my girlfriend is hot... for a fat chick. We shouldn't be excusing poor criticism because it's aimed at a broad audience. If anything, the broader audience would be better served with a more balanced, ethical review. Kotaku readers largely knew what they were getting before Wii U game reviews started flooding the 'net. People reading Brett's stuff more than likely aren't as informed, and after reading his Wii U impressions still aren't in many ways.

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 10:45 AM

Then it seems you're conflating "initial impressions" with "review." That's a major distinction, regardless of the qualifiers you have hidden in the piece.

I guess my post should have said "initial impressions" and you would have been happier (note that the article doesn't say "review"). The qualifiers are hardly hidden--they're right there in black and white, including "based on a preview and test-drive I got recently" stated early on.

There's nothing unethical about liking a product without reservation and stating as such.

[QUOTE=Kotaku readers largely knew what they were getting before Wii U game reviews started flooding the 'net. People reading Brett's stuff more than likely aren't as informed, and after reading his Wii U impressions still aren't in many ways.

I believe that with a limit of 1500 words, I gave as much information about the Wii U that I possibly could. Other than some imagined negative traits about the system that you seem to want.

RCM

11-16-2012, 11:01 AM

I guess my post should have said "initial impressions" and you would have been happier (note that the article doesn't say "review"). The qualifiers are hardly hidden--they're right there in black and white, including "based on a preview and test-drive I got recently" stated early on.

There's nothing unethical about liking a product without reservation and stating as such.

I believe that with a limit of 1500 words, I gave as much information about the Wii U that I possibly could. Other than some imagined negative traits about the system that you seem to want.

You called it a review, not me, regardless of the headline. If we're calling this a review, the way in which you reviewed it -- likely by demoing some games at a Nintendo consumer event and scribbling your thoughts -- isn't an ethical way I would give my approval. I would want to spend more time with the product and observe what it potentially does right and wrong, among other things. Consumers want to know that stuff, especially when making a fairly big purchase in a shit economy. Did Nintendo provide you with a console in the weeks leading up to your review/impressions? If so, and you DID spend hours with Wii U hardware outside of Nintendo PR's view, I apologize.

The lack of negativity in your piece isn't the issue for me or others. It's the regurgitation of Nintendo's PR babble and the seemingly lack of thought put into it. Judging from your piece it seems the Nintendo PR machine has their hand up your ass enough to make you their puppet. You're doing exactly what they want and don't even know it.

I expect this slop from sweaty fanboys in their early 20s-- kinda like me 10 years ago sans the sweaty fanboy part. This is unbecoming of someone who has written hundreds of reviews and has several books published. If this hadn't been written by you I'm guessing (and hoping) you would agree.

Frankie_Says_Relax

11-16-2012, 11:03 AM

That's like saying my girlfriend is hot... for a fat chick. We shouldn't be excusing poor criticism because it's aimed at a broad audience. If anything, the broader audience would be better served with a more balanced, ethical review. Kotaku readers largely knew what they were getting before Wii U game reviews started flooding the 'net. People reading Brett's stuff more than likely aren't as informed, and after reading his Wii U impressions still aren't in many ways.

Sure, it's fluffy, but again, in the context of the publication, I don't see it as being "unethical". It's just an enthusiastic first impressions article.

The reader base of that paper (which is, again, novice) would likely never identify with or understand or care about the level of critical minutia that will be assigned to a system like the Wii U via a dedicated "games journalism" outlet like Kotaku or discussed in a community like ours.

I don't read a movie review in the penny saver (no offense to this publication) expecting the same level of academic criticism that I'm going to get from an enthusiast publication like Movieline or Entertainment Weekly.

Don't get me wrong, I totally respect your desire to see a more balanced/academic approach to games journalism all the time everywhere, I just don't think it's going to happen with games journalism any faster than it has occurred with any other entertainment medium.

rolenta

11-16-2012, 11:12 AM

I don't read a movie review in the penny saver (no offense to this publication) expecting the same level of academic criticism that I'm going to get from an enthusiast publication like Movieline or Entertainment Weekly.

Actually, the Star-Telegram cannot be compared to a PennySaver. It's a major newspaper.

From Wikipedia:
The Star-Telegram�s circulation area is the Fort Worth/Arlington metro area (four counties) and 14 surrounding counties. The newspaper's primary market is the four-county Fort Worth/Arlington metro area (as well as the Dallas suburb of Grand Prairie), which is the western part of the fourth-largest U.S. metropolitan area, the Dallas/Fort Worth/Arlington Combined Statistical Area. Fort Worth/Arlington ranks 29th most populous as a metro area.[

Frankie_Says_Relax

11-16-2012, 11:17 AM

Actually, the Star-Telegram cannot be compared to a PennySaver. It's a major newspaper.

From Wikipedia:
The Star-Telegram�s circulation area is the Fort Worth/Arlington metro area (four counties) and 14 surrounding counties. The newspaper's primary market is the four-county Fort Worth/Arlington metro area (as well as the Dallas suburb of Grand Prairie), which is the western part of the fourth-largest U.S. metropolitan area, the Dallas/Fort Worth/Arlington Combined Statistical Area. Fort Worth/Arlington ranks 29th most populous as a metro area.[

Thanks for clarifying. Ultimately nothing is as crappy as the penny saver ... unless you're in NJ, there's always "Steppin Out".

Still, generally speaking newspapers reach a far broader/diverse demographic than a dedicated games journalism site or enthusiast community. That was really the crux of my point.

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 11:19 AM

Trust me when I say the bulk of the Star-Telegram's 200,000 subscribers (plus many more online) don't want to read a bunch of technical jargon, nor would the editors accept such a piece.

RCM

11-16-2012, 11:37 AM

Trust me when I say the bulk of the Star-Telegram's 200,000 subscribers (plus many more online) don't want to read a bunch of technical jargon, nor would the editors accept such a piece.

You're missing the point.

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 11:54 AM

You're missing the point.

As a full-time professional writer, the point is to write what my editors want to the best of my ability and in turn get paid.

CDiablo

11-16-2012, 11:56 AM

Listen bro just listen to everyone and accept that your review sucks. Put a couple years into the system compare multiple games and multi platform games based on framrate, native resoultion, online capibilities and lag input down to the milisecond. Also test it under extreme conditions such as blizzards, homeland invasions(ala Red Dawn) and finding out your wife cheated on you with a relative. Then travel back in time and write a full review on it, then post here, not that hard. Now thats a review.

RCM

11-16-2012, 12:02 PM

As a full-time professional writer, the point is to write what my editors want to the best of my ability and in turn get paid.

You're obviously content with your horseshit, so have it.

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 12:17 PM

You're obviously content with your horseshit, so have it.

Ease up, Cowboy, trying to have a polite conversation here. Once you write your pithy, spec-spouting review of the Wii U, please post a link.

RCM

11-16-2012, 12:32 PM

Ease up, Cowboy, trying to have a polite conversation here. Once you write your pithy, spec-spouting review of the Wii U, please post a link.

I'm being polite, partner. Your tone, however, is anything but. How many more times will you remind us in your condescending tone that YOU'RE the professional writer here? I know we're all helmets and drools cups on DP, but don't preach to me while you attempt to swing your dick around. No one is impressed.

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 12:47 PM

I'm being polite, partner. Your tone, however, is anything but. How many more times will you remind us in your condescending tone that YOU'RE the professional writer here? I know we're all helmets and drools cups on DP, but don't preach to me while you attempt to swing your dick around. No one is impressed.

With "Cowboy," "horseshit," and "pardner," I'm digging the Western theme. I mentioned that I'm a writer twice, which I guess now makes three times.

Actually, most DPers know more about modding systems, specs, computer programming, and whatnot, but I'm pretty sure I know more about writing for a family newspaper.

I'm done. Y'all have fun.

RCM

11-16-2012, 12:49 PM

With "Cowboy," "horseshit," and "pardner," I'm digging the Western theme. I mentioned that I'm a writer twice, which I guess now makes three times.

Actually, most DPers know more about modding systems, specs, computer programming, and whatnot, but I'm pretty sure I know more about writing for a family newspaper.

I'm done. Y'all have fun.

Y'all come back now, ya hear?

Hep038

11-16-2012, 01:19 PM

As a full-time professional writer, the point is to write what my editors want to the best of my ability and in turn get paid.

Seems like your editors wanted a fluff piece on the WiiU to sell ad space. Well Done Sir!

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 01:27 PM

Seems like your editors wanted a fluff piece on the WiiU to sell ad space. Well Done Sir!

I said I was done, but I have to respond to this nonsense. My review was not an ad--I simply enjoyed playing the system. I queried the editors about reviewing the system, and they thought it was a good, timely topic. If I had not liked the system, I would have said so in the review, and the editors would have had no problem with that. (This isn't exactly what you are saying, but the implication is there).

rolenta

11-16-2012, 01:43 PM

Brett,

To be honest, as I read your article yesterday, in the back of my mind I was thinking that it sounded so much like you were sucking up to Nintendo. But I know you and knew that wasn't the case. You were just very enthusiastic about it. And there lies the dillema. How does a writer convey that he actually likes something without appearing to be writing what he thinks people want to read?

8bitgamer

11-16-2012, 02:53 PM

Nintendo re-invents the wheel yet again--it's hard to complain.

I could've mentioned the lack of a 3D Mario, Zelda, or Metroid game at launch, but those games will come out eventually--23 titles, including several must-owns--is a pretty good launch. I could've gone with the "old man speech" about one joystick and a single fire button, but who cares? I could've mentioned that the console is only marginally more powerful than the 360 or the PS3, but who cares? The play is the thing, and the games I played were great.

marlowe221

11-16-2012, 04:01 PM

Wow, harsh.

This guy wrote an article to be published in a non-gaming publication for a non-gamer audience. No gamer is going to the daily newspaper for the kind of information they want. This article was written for the christmas list totting soccer moms out there wondering what to get little Johnny for a present.

To those who seem to want some hard-hitting, technical and scholarly work: It's a freaking newspaper! Newspapers don't present that kind of information on ANY topic really. It's just not what they do....

I agree that video game criticism/journalism is in a sad state but this article is neither a symptom nor a cause of that particular disease.

buzz_n64

11-16-2012, 04:54 PM

Yeah, when I first read it, like many others have stated, I felt that it was a weak review. However after seeing Frankie's, and other talking points, it's not bad for what it is. It is an article for the general audience. What may upset some on here is the fact that you posted it on a gaming forum where we expect a more detailed analysis of the system and comparison. If you stated the context of what you were doing on here before we clicked on the link, we might have had a more nonobjective take on it.

Gamereviewgod

11-17-2012, 01:49 AM

From the review:

"... gamers can employ the GamePad touchscreen to browse programming from such subscriber-based services as Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon Instant Video, along with cable and satellite TV."

None of that functionality is live.

Also, backwards compatibility requires a day 1 update. Seems important.

Read more he

Nz17

11-17-2012, 06:45 AM

"... gamers can employ the GamePad touchscreen to browse programming from such subscriber-based services as Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon Instant Video, along with cable and satellite TV." None of that functionality is live. Also, backwards compatibility requires a day 1 update. Seems important.

True enough: the TV listings stuff will be available in December, and the rest (Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon Instant Video) "sometime later."

I think the Star Telegram article was a good column for what it was meant to be: more of an informative overview rather than an in-depth review.

MachineGex

11-17-2012, 05:48 PM

Enmity

11-17-2012, 06:51 PM

This thread was more informative then the article.

Good read. Thanks go out to the authors.

Gamereviewgod

11-18-2012, 01:26 AM

Read the review and thought it was fine. I was however very disappointed with some of the other member's responses. Someone shares something, have some manners. Some members need to have some class....

It was called out for what it is. Checks and balances. Most sites editorial policies held their reviews until the embargo, which also included the online functionality. This did neither, nor was it a review.

Collector_Gaming

11-18-2012, 01:32 AM

Well I was at best buy today scouting out the tv i am gonna buy on black friday (or should i say attempt to buy) and went through the games section and saw they had the Wii U running so I gave it whirl. The only game i guess available for play on in is Rayman Legends. So tried it out. The controller actually while still feeling some what ackward in my hand to me wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be but i'd be interested in going to a friends place and trying to play a game for a long period of time with it.
The whole touch screen gimmick to me seems just that a Gimmick. I was not a fan of it on the DS and not fan of it here. I personally don't see the true reason of it. It just seems like more thing wasting electricity and one more thing that can break. but whatever.
The graphics are really good on the system imo. Once again I could only play that game but looked clean and crisp as can be although I feel like why even bother with the tv when it seems like the controller can project the image just as crystal clear as the tv can onto it and its a good size screen too not some puny lil screen ya gotta squint at.

All in all from what I played on it. I would give the console a 5/10. Not bad really but wayyyyyyy to gimmicky to me. Alot of unneeded things involved then I think there should be. If it was me I would have scrapped the controller and gone back to basics. But thats just me.

badinsults

11-19-2012, 03:30 AM

After reading the review, I got the impression the author hadn't even played the system, and simply copied generic information off other websites.

I've seen more in depth reviews on my Facebook feed.

8bitgamer

11-19-2012, 07:38 AM

For those of you who "get" what a piece (which had a strict word limit) about a new system for a mainstream, all-ages audience looks like, thanks for weighing in.

For those who hurled slings and arrows, if I die from those wounds, you can put this on my epitaph: Here lies (insert expletive here)--he dared to play the latest Nintendo system, thoroughly enjoy it, and write about it for a family newspaper.

megasdkirby

11-19-2012, 07:51 AM

After reading the article, I think I've realized why there are many that are not in favor of the "review".

It's not a bad "review", however it's more of an informative, technically inclined article than an actual review. An article whose purpose is to push sales forward, making sure the system sells specially during the holiday season. It also makes you wonder how much the author got paid for the article. It is more of a big promotion than an actual review. There is very little opinion (which is basically what a review is) and more sales and technical jargon inclined article. The purpose is clearly to push more units during the holiday season. So basically it is just that: an article, not a review.

Is it bad? Oh no, not at all. But I really wouldn't call it a review by any stretch. It's basically a summary of info one would find in several places on the internet, all consolidated into an article to, once again, in order to push units during the holiday season. Perhaps the author was being forced by the administration to write a "review" with the intention to make the unit seem more attractive. Maybe the company got a royalty for said article. Who knows...I certainty don't know. But it would not surprise me. This is something I would see in MSDN Tech Net from Microsoft and on a newspaper, which ironically is the target audience is this case (even if it's just an "e-newspaper"). If it was for a dedicated video game magazine, like Game Informer or a video game dedicated site like Kotaku, the article would definitely seem out of place.

This is not a review. It's a "sales-inclined" article. An advertisement. But it's not a review, or at least lacks anything conclusive that would make it be viewed as such. But since it's not for a video game magazine or related website, I would let it pass.

8bitgamer

11-19-2012, 07:58 AM

No force, no royalty for the company, nothing like that. Like I said before, I didn't like the system and wasn't impressed with its features, I would have said so.

G-Boobie

11-19-2012, 08:36 AM

No force, no royalty for the company, nothing like that. Like I said before, I didn't like the system and wasn't impressed with its features, I would have said so.

You've been around DP long enough to know its demographic. What did you expect the reaction would be? The article is entirely uninformative to anyone equipped with Google and seven minutes of free time, and to be honest, it was more than a little offensive. Excusing a lack of detail oriented journalism because you're writing for a "family newspaper", as if the usual constituents are too stupid to parse anything other than the usual cliched stuff formally forbidden by the AP style guide? Shameful.

You wrote a fluff piece and didn't copy more than 30% directly from the press kit you were handed as you walked out the door; good job, I guess, though I notice that you didn't mention that most of the online features simply don't work yet.

If this seems overly harsh, it's because self-serving link requests irritate me.

Gamereviewgod

11-19-2012, 10:49 AM

8bitgamer

11-19-2012, 01:43 PM

Fair enough on the availability of certain features being delayed past the release of the console.

Griking

11-19-2012, 08:37 PM

Andy

11-21-2012, 10:47 AM

Bojay1997

11-21-2012, 12:26 PM

I thought the article was fine and about on par with what I'd expect from a major non-gaming-focused news source. The idea of questioning the writer's ethics because of it is positively absurd and deeply insulting. If you want to blame anyone, blame the guy's editor because they're usually the ones that are asking for fluffy, non-challenging rewrites or whatever.

I disagree with this completely. I used to write reviews for a couple of major metropolitan newspapers and tabloid style computer magazines in the 90s and while the audience is definitely different than a hardcore gaming magazine (to the extent there is even such a thing anymore), if anything, I think a writer has an obligation to be more open about the flaws in a product with those readers as they are more likely to fall for a manufacturer's claims and therefore spend the money to make the purchase without fully investigating. When I used to write reviews, I always pictured that I was writing them for my parents. They are well educated, but they aren't tech experts and so I made sure I always did a balanced job of explaining the potential benefits of a piece of gear as well as the potential downside.

I just don't think this particular writer made any effort at balance and I don't buy that his editor forced him to do it. Like many newspapers nowadays, the editor could probably care less about the content of reviews as long as it was within the word limit and had decent sentence structure. That doesn't mean the writer should be absolved of responsibility for actually writing something that is helpful to the mass audience instead of a regurgitation of the talking points released by the manufacturer.

Greg2600

11-21-2012, 02:54 PM

Graham Mitchell

11-21-2012, 04:41 PM

I could have told people the Wii U would be great fun to play. Almost everything Nintendo makes is. The question is whether this system will sell at that price, and how many? Is the semi-portability enough to keep future consoles alive? I think in many ways this is partially an experiment on the future of gaming. I commend Nintendo for that, as with the Wii's remote. Not sure if it will work, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

As someone who played it at e3, I can tell you that it is fun if you have 5 people to play with. Probably not for very long, bit it is fun. Nintendo was not able to really demonstrate how the tablet would be useful for a single player game.

Other than the tablet, the console had nothing really special going for it. Nsmb u is a straight port of nsmb wii. It reuses all the graphics and sound assets from that game. It was pretty underwhelming at the time.

But, in a year or 2 there will be a great Zelda or metroid game on it, and well all miss out if we don't get one eventually.