can you swap a snes/n64 game battery and still retain the save?

[Loganm187]

I have two majoras mask carts for n64 and I want to sell one. The problem is that the one I want to sell has my 50 hour saved game on it. Would it be possible to just switch the carts batteries and have my end game save on the other better looking cart i wanna keep?

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

You can't do what you're thinking.

The battery doesn't hold the save. It only provides power to a small bit of SRAM that holds it. Once you remove the battery, that's it. Saves erased.

There are ways out there of backing up N64 saves to your computer, but I'm not sure you'd want to go to the trouble.

Play through the game again. Majora's Mask deserves it :)

[Pikkon]

Once you remove the battery your save will be gone,just do a simply pcb swap.

[xelement5x]

Once you remove the battery your save will be gone,just do a simply pcb swap.

This is pretty much it, unless there were like weird revision of MM or something I think this a PCB swap would be the easiest solution to your problem. I will tell you though, eventually that save battery is going to fail no matter what...

[RP2A03]

Actually, Majora's Mask uses flash RAM for save files.

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

Actually, Majora's Mask uses flash RAM for save files.

So, no battery? Like a USB flash drive?

[Gameguy]

Actually, Majora's Mask uses flash RAM for save files.
If that's true then the other non-saving cartridge is practically garbage as it can't be easily repaired. Good luck finding replacement flash chips to replace the defective one now that they're so old, I have a Sonic 3 cart like this.

[RP2A03]

So, no battery? Like a USB flash drive?

Yes.



If that's true then the other non-saving cartridge is practically garbage as it can't be easily repaired. Good luck finding replacement flash chips to replace the defective one now that they're so old, I have a Sonic 3 cart like this.


And in time, you can have this experience with eighty different N64 games, over half of all GBA games, and every DS game.

[SpaceHarrier]

If that's true then the other non-saving cartridge is practically garbage as it can't be easily repaired. Good luck finding replacement flash chips to replace the defective one now that they're so old, I have a Sonic 3 cart like this.



And in time, you can have this experience with eighty different N64 games, over half of all GBA games, and every DS game.

Wait.. how does this happen? Did someone literally save their Sonic 3 file over 10,000 times or something? Or does old age take its toll much like how capacitors will go bad even sitting unused? Bit rot?? Is this different from a Playstation memory card?

[Loganm187]

Thanks guys! A PCB swap will be simple and solve my problem. Don't know why I didn't think about it and yes, I'm aware all these saves will be gone before long, but I played all the way through until the final boss last summer and need to finish up.Now I can sell the shitty looking cart and just swap PCB's. Thanks!

[Gameguy]

Wait.. how does this happen? Did someone literally save their Sonic 3 file over 10,000 times or something? Or does old age take its toll much like how capacitors will go bad even sitting unused? Bit rot?? Is this different from a Playstation memory card?
There is a write limit to the number of times these chips can be written to, but sometimes the chips can just die. Even normal ROM chips in games can die sometimes.

As for capacitors, it's actually better for them if they're used occasionally rather than sitting unused for extended periods of time. Just started reading up on capacitors on some sites dedicated to vintage audio equipment, these guys are way pickier with capacitors than anywhere else as apparently the quality of the capacitors can affect the quality of the sound. For some failed capacitors they can actually be rebuilt rather than just replacing them with new ones, of course it's expensive to do this but for some caps it's worth doing this instead of replacing them.


Electrolytics do not suffer idleness well. They can cause big trouble when idle for long periods, needing periodic charging to stay "formed" and maintain the oxide layer that insulates the conducting plates. Sometimes they can be "reformed" by a slowly rising return to working voltage (see below). Even with regular use, electrolytics fail with age by drying out or leaking electrolyte following internal corrosion. If the electrolytic bulges, shows obvious loss of electrolyte, or simply can't be reformed you must replace it.

Reforming
The thin layer of aluminum oxide formed to insulate the capacitor foil constitutes formation. Capacitor manufacturers use proprietary mixes of chemicals and DC electricity to create this insulating layer, which deteriorates with time and idleness. Often the oxide layer is in such bad shape in older equipment that it must be reformed or else the capacitor will fail catastrophically. All methods of reforming use the slow reapplication of DC electricity to restore the oxide layer to its original thickness and uniformity. In my opinion, there's no one proven way to reform - many different approaches are available, but all have one element in common - slowness. The reforming must proceed faster than the buildup of heat due to the low resistance of the faulty oxide layer - this will at least take hours, and can take days.

http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~reese/electrolytics/



Thanks guys! A PCB swap will be simple and solve my problem. Don't know why I didn't think about it and yes, I'm aware all these saves will be gone before long, but I played all the way through until the final boss last summer and need to finish up.Now I can sell the shitty looking cart and just swap PCB's. Thanks!
Yes, you can still sell the broken cart to some sucker who doesn't know that it doesn't use a battery and is irreparable. Totally appropriate to do.

[Loganm187]

There is a write limit to the number of times these chips can be written to, but sometimes the chips can just die. Even normal ROM chips in games can die sometimes.

As for capacitors, it's actually better for them if they're used occasionally rather than sitting unused for extended periods of time. Just started reading up on capacitors on some sites dedicated to vintage audio equipment, these guys are way pickier with capacitors than anywhere else as apparently the quality of the capacitors can affect the quality of the sound. For some failed capacitors they can actually be rebuilt rather than just replacing them with new ones, of course it's expensive to do this but for some caps it's worth doing this instead of replacing them.



http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~reese/electrolytics/



Yes, you can still sell the broken cart to some sucker who doesn't know that it doesn't use a battery and is irreparable. Totally appropriate to do.

What are you talking about? I'm not selling anything "broken" both carts SAVE fine. MAYBE IF YOU READ MY POST you would understand i wanted to swap for COSMETIC reasons only. I have been selling and collecting games for ten years and have 1,000's of perfect feedback everywhere.

[Gameguy]

What are you talking about? I'm not selling anything "broken" both carts SAVE fine. MAYBE IF YOU READ MY POST you would understand i wanted to swap for COSMETIC reasons only. I have been selling and collecting games for ten years and have 1,000's of perfect feedback everywhere.
I guess I read that wrong the first time, the part about swapping batteries threw me off. Nevermind.

[Jorpho]

You can't do what you're thinking.

The battery doesn't hold the save. It only provides power to a small bit of SRAM that holds it. Once you remove the battery, that's it. Saves erased. But does the save really vanish instantly? Doesn't the save persist for the short amount of time it takes to change the battery? That's how it works with CPS2 boards, at least:
http://archive.is/JgoF

[wiggyx]

There are a handful of N64 games that use a battery, but to replace it without losing your save data you'd need a means by which to rip the save file and then reload it after the battery swap.

It's a snap on the SNES (which uses battery backup exclusively). I actually offer it as a service. It only requires a Retrode (http://www.retrode.org/), which allows you to move save files to and from the cart via your computer. It costs about 100 bucks, so it's not always worth it for someone who just needs to hangs a battery or two, hence why I offer a service ;)

[RP2A03]

Wait.. how does this happen? Did someone literally save their Sonic 3 file over 10,000 times or something? Or does old age take its toll much like how capacitors will go bad even sitting unused? Bit rot?? Is this different from a Playstation memory card?


I would be willing to bet that his particular copy was a rental game. Either that, or someone really liked Sonic 3.

[Leo_A]

Or it just broke...

I really doubt there's a single cartridge in the world that has ever seen the save being rewritten 10,000 times or more.

[thegamezmaster]

Can't he just put another battery in parallel at the same contact points as original battery? Then with that in place swap out the bad battery?

[Gameguy]

I would be willing to bet that his particular copy was a rental game. Either that, or someone really liked Sonic 3.
It wasn't a rental, it came in the original box with manual and nothing had rental labels on it. I got it in a bundle of Genesis stuff and was broken when I got it. Of course I was told everything was tested and still working before hand, basic craigslist crap to deal with. The bundle was still worth buying even with this broken game so it worked out alright for the most part.

[FoxNtd]

Can't he just put another battery in parallel at the same contact points as original battery? Then with that in place swap out the bad battery?

I was going to post exactly this.

[jb143]

But does the save really vanish instantly? Doesn't the save persist for the short amount of time it takes to change the battery? That's how it works with CPS2 boards, at least:
http://archive.is/JgoF

It's possible that capacitors in the circuit could keep the RAM powered for a short time. Not sure if that's the case for carts or not but in theory it could happen.



Can't he just put another battery in parallel at the same contact points as original battery? Then with that in place swap out the bad battery?


I was going to post exactly this.

Heh...me too.

Either way, this is all a moot point if the game does indeed use flash.

[Crystalian]

1. A Dex Drive costs wayyyyyy less than $100 and will hook you up if you need to back up 64 saves on the cheap.

2. My copy of Dragon Quest Monsters Joker probably has over 10,000 saves on it, LOL...

[Jorpho]

1. A Dex Drive costs wayyyyyy less than $100 and will hook you up if you need to back up 64 saves on the cheap.But that only works with memory cards and not with carts that have internal saving, right?

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

But does the save really vanish instantly? Doesn't the save persist for the short amount of time it takes to change the battery? That's how it works with CPS2 boards, at least:
http://archive.is/JgoF

From what I've read, SNES games don't have the capacitors that give you the amount of leeway the CPS2 allows. When you remove the battery, *poof*. That's it. I don't know about N64 games, but it is likely the same story.

Using two batteries might be possible, but I would be worried that the extra current would corrupt the save file.

[Gameguy]

Can't he just put another battery in parallel at the same contact points as original battery? Then with that in place swap out the bad battery?
Usually when you replace batteries you have to desolder the old metal tabs from the board and solder in a battery holder for a new battery, where would you hook up another battery while desoldering the old one? You're removing the part holding in the battery, not just the battery itself.

[Rickstilwell1]

At least Sonic 3 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles are both games that are able to be beaten in one sitting. Just takes a few hours for the long version with both games attached.

[jb143]

Using two batteries might be possible, but I would be worried that the extra current would corrupt the save file.

The maximum possible current would increase but the actual current flow through the circuit is determined by the circuit itself...which isn't going to change in this case. As long as you're not using something like a car battery you should be fine.

[Rickstilwell1]

Yes.





And in time, you can have this experience with eighty different N64 games, over half of all GBA games, and every DS game.

This is why a nifty piece of hardware called the Everdrive 64 was invented. With the saving now going to an SD card instead or cartridge flash, you never have to worry about losing your saves again. I also believe if you use flash carts for GBA and DS all of the data is stored on the micro SD cards as well. These devices are worth the investment as they do a far better job than any emulator ever could and they will preserve the lifespan of your real games.

[jb143]

Usually when you replace batteries you have to desolder the old metal tabs from the board and solder in a battery holder for a new battery, where would you hook up another battery while desoldering the old one? You're removing the part holding in the battery, not just the battery itself.

A battery holder and alligator clips...or if you're worried about the alligator clips slipping off while desoldering/soldering then simply tack solder the wires to an appropriate place on the board. Pretty typical way to approach something like this. I wouldn't even think twice about it if I were trying to retain a save through a battery swap.

[thegamezmaster]

Usually when you replace batteries you have to desolder the old metal tabs from the board and solder in a battery holder for a new battery, where would you hook up another battery while desoldering the old one? You're removing the part holding in the battery, not just the battery itself.


Two points along the same lines, just find a point on the traces closest to the battery tabs.

[Gameguy]

So you'd basically have to solder some points directly to the traces while soldering a battery holder to the proper spots? I guess it could be done, personally I wouldn't want to mess around with the cartridge too much while changing the battery. Just change the battery and start fresh rather than solder a bunch of new connections over the traces.

Most people would only change the battery when the old one dies anyway, this isn't really all that practical to do.

[jb143]

So you'd basically have to solder some points directly to the traces while soldering a battery holder to the proper spots?

I wouldn't solder to the traces, they are usually coated. If you did want to solder to the traces, you would have to sand down to the bare metal first. Instead, you would want to solder to a pin, via, component lead, or some other already soldered point. Really, it wouldn't be that hard or even time consuming and you quickly hit the spots with your iron when you're done to remove the wires with no noticeable difference to the board.