Video Game History What If's?

[IHatedSega]

I think this is a cool thread idea which could go on for a long time. Basically, whats a thing in video gaming history youve thought of, and you maybe have an alternate history idea for? Someone may have been thinking how Atari could have stayed ontop the console sales, up to nowadays even. Heres the big what if Ive always thought of:

How could Sega have stayed in the console business?
To me, it all started going downhill when they made the Sega CD and got all those horrible FMV games on it. After that they released the 32X and those didnt sell well at all, which together can be seen as a big misstep. Then the Saturn being released early made Sega so unpopular with developers and stores they lost to the PS1 and N64 as a distant 3rd place console. The Dreamcast came out, but not having the confidence back of many parties they burned bridges with the Saturn, and it not having a dvd drive, it was too late for Sega especially after Microsoft announced they would enter the console war.

But lets say Sega didnt put any energy and money into making Genesis addons, what if they had instead focused all that wasted money and time on their next console? Virtua Fighter was a big hit so obviously 3D was the next big step for gaming, and they would make sure they released a quality console for it. The Saturn would be released on time, and not early so then stores wouldnt have been angry with Sega for rushing everything after two failed addons, and developers would have enough time to make their games for it. The Saturn wouldnt have been rushed and enough time would have been focused on doing things right with 3D processing. Then another big thing wouldnt happen. Lets say Bernie Stolar wasnt hired to be in charge of Sega America, so then all those great RPG and 2D Japanese exclusive games would have been given a North American release. The Saturn would have a better library and a ton of games which were also on the PS1 and N64, making them a possible number 1 or 2 company in the 3 way race. Dreamcast production would also start later, giving it a later release with a dvd drive. Microsoft seeing the console market being a strong 3way race decides against releasing the Xbox as a TV gaming console and have it be a cross between computer gaming and console gaming, it fails as hard as the CD-i. The Dreamcast having a very diverse library and great sales numbers would allow Sega's next console to have enough strength in the business to get all the companies they lost in the Saturn era to come back and allow them to keep going strong.


Whats something youve thought of? It doesnt have to be a big thing like this, what ifs can cover a ton of ground.

[XYXZYZ]

I really don't know what to think about video game marketing in the 90s. I really wanted more Japanese stuff (ie, "stuff that looks like anime"). But the whole industry in the US seemed to be hell-bent against it, we know how the cool Japanese box art was always replaced with some dull looking airbrushed crap. I always wonder "what if they had marketed the same art and games from Japan?" Would that really have been more successful? Or would it have made the target demographic even smaller?

I also don't know what to think about the directions Sega went in. They were always the first to come out with the latest technology, and they were always surpassed by the competition, as though the competition was letting Sega dip it's foot in the water to see if it gets bit, then charging over them when it doesn't. But as far as stuff like the Sega CD and 32X, who knows? Sega always took risks. What if they hadn't focused on marketing the FMV games? Would they have been seen as "The same thing as SNES, with better music and twice as expensive"? The FMV stuff really set the Sega CD apart, I think the wow factor of FMV really sold a lot of units to people who were excited about the new technology and didn't think much about the games sucking. And I think we all agree that the 32X was a bad idea, to me it was just a premature 3D gimmick when you know the "true" 3D machines will be out soon. Personally I think they should have been focusing on providing better games for the Sega CD at that time, but hindsight is 20/20... you never know unless you take the risk. And let's not forget Virtual Boy, Nintendo had it's share of flops as well.

[retroguy]

On that note, what if the Virtual Boy had succeeded? As time went on and developers learned what they could do with the hardware, we might have seen more first-person pov games. Then, 3 or 4 years later, they would have released the Virtual Boy 2 with improved graphics and a full-color display. The end result is that today, full 3D virtual reality would be common and just about everyone would have their own headset, used for everything from gaming to virtual visits to famous landmarks and theme parks. If only...

[IHatedSega]

The FMV thing brought interest to it, but then after a few hours of excitement playing the first day you wake up the next morning and its worn off, then you put in Sonic CD :D I dont think I can come up with a way to think of how FMV would get stronger and take the industry forward. hahaha

Thats weird you bring up those things about the Sega CD, I downloaded a ton of nonFMV games a few hours ago, and I was thinking of if Sega hadnt focused on FMV, but on making better sounding and looking games for it. I noticed there were some computer games ported to it, maybe they could have gotten more DOS or such computer games for it? Maybe DOOM should have been on it instead of the 32X. Or what if NEC hadnt made the Turbo CD, and all those companies that eventually left them when they made the PC-FX had made those games for the Sega CD instead?

Oh, and yeah, I wish that original Japanese covers were used on a ton of games back then. Way better covers than what the American boxes have.

[7th lutz]

The FMV thing brought interest to it, but then after a few hours of excitement playing the first day you wake up the next morning and its worn off, then you put in Sonic CD :D I dont think I can come up with a way to think of how FMV would get stronger and take the industry forward. hahaha

Thats weird you bring up those things about the Sega CD, I downloaded a ton of nonFMV games a few hours ago, and I was thinking of if Sega hadnt focused on FMV, but on making better sounding and looking games for it. I noticed there were some computer games ported to it, maybe they could have gotten more DOS or such computer games for it? Maybe DOOM should have been on it instead of the 32X.
I don't think Sega CD and Doom would be a great fit. The graphics are almost identical to the Sega Genesis. That is a problem since the SNES was graphically better than the Genesis and the Snes had a bad port of Doom. The Sega CD is even faster than the Genesis, but still it wouldn't have been that great. 32x was more High Tech than the Sega CD for Graphics and had a more advanced graphics processor. The other problem is 3DO had Doom with a better processor and is regarded the worst version of Doom out there and that is an issue Since 3DO and Sega CD were CD based Systems.

[IHatedSega]

It would have at least sounded better than the 32X port. haha

[gepeto]

What if the Ps3 released at $299.00 / $399.00 LOL

[rocky412]

What if Atari had distributed The Nintendo Entertainment System!!!

[7th lutz]

It would have at least sounded better than the 32X port. haha
True enough, but rest of the Sega CD version would have made the 3DO version list a masterpiece. The 3DO version is considered worse port of Doom of all time.

[ColecoFan1981]

What if Murasame Castle and Miracle of Almana were released in the U.S.?

~Ben

[treismac]

What if the Turbografx-16 won the 16-bit Wars?

[Guyra]

What if Nintendo hadn't turned to Sony in an effort to make a disc based console as the successor to the SNES/SFC? Or what if Nintendo hadn't backed out of their deal? Both of those would mean huge changes in the world of gaming as we know it today.

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

What if Nintendo hadn't turned to Sony in an effort to make a disc based console as the successor to the SNES/SFC? Or what if Nintendo hadn't backed out of their deal? Both of those would mean huge changes in the world of gaming as we know it today.

Imagine...Zelda CD.

It would have been a top-down adventure like AlttP but with an anime FMV intro, cutscenes, and CD quality soundtrack. It would take advantage of the expanded disc space, and 3d effects of the 32-bit Play Station hardware.

[Greg2600]

What if Nintendo hadn't turned to Sony in an effort to make a disc based console as the successor to the SNES/SFC? Or what if Nintendo hadn't backed out of their deal? Both of those would mean huge changes in the world of gaming as we know it today.
No difference. The reason Sony did that was solely because they wanted to enter the home console market. Would have happened regardless. Playstation I mean, Nintendo knew it, that's why they hurriedly back out of the deal.


What if the Turbografx-16 won the 16-bit Wars?
Has to be a fully 16-bit system to have had a shot. It wasn't.


What if Atari had distributed The Nintendo Entertainment System!!!
This is my favorite what-if! Pretty hard to say, because that really has never happened. A company selling a system in North America that it didn't design and manufacturer around the globe. Maybe the closest was the Goldstar 3DO or Atari "Epyx" Lynx, but not really. Or I suppose the Coleco Gemini. It would have depended on the contractual language of course. Eventually Nintendo would have waited until it lapsed, threw Atari to the curb, and moved on. It's just difficult to fathom the impact on SEGA let's say, or if Atari would have blown it so bad the NES failed.

My second favorite is what if SEGA had skipped the 32X and just waited on the Saturn, and released it when it was ready Fall of 1995, instead of earlier in the year like they?

[BricatSegaFan]

What if SNK never went under? What if Atari and SNK actually went through with thier deal to make a cheaper AES?

What if Gunpei Yakoi lived to see the wonderswan thrive and knock gameboy down a peg?

[chrisbid]

Sega's glut of hardware wasn't their problem, it was their lack of a compelling "killer app" to push hardware sales. The SNES continued to sell well into the 32-bit era thanks mostly to Donkey Kong Country and its sequels.

Virtua Fighter 2 was a huge hit in Japan that made the Saturn the most successful Japanese Sega console, but the VF series was flat in the US. Had Sega had a game that pushed systems like Sonic the Hedgehog pushed the Genesis, that game would've made its console (32X or Saturn) a hit.

In fact, the early 32 bit market was wide open in 95 and 96. Sony had the lead, but they could've been overtaken by Sega or Nintendo had either one of them hit a home run software title.

[Jorpho]

I think this is a cool thread idea which could go on for a long time.You don't say?
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?160151-Theoretical-What-if
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?160995-a-famicom-nes-what-if
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?110257-Video-Game-quot-What-IF-quot
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?76074-What-if-the-SNES-had-a-CD-Rom-expansion-drive
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?28642-What-if

[Mr Mort]

What if Nintendo hadn't turned to Sony in an effort to make a disc based console as the successor to the SNES/SFC? Or what if Nintendo hadn't backed out of their deal? Both of those would mean huge changes in the world of gaming as we know it today.

This one keeps popping up in my mind from time to time. What if Sony and Nintendo had released the original Playstation add-on for the SNES? Things would be way different. I agree that that gaming would not look quite the same today had that actually happened.

[Greg2600]

This one keeps popping up in my mind from time to time. What if Sony and Nintendo had released the original Playstation add-on for the SNES? Things would be way different. I agree that that gaming would not look quite the same today had that actually happened.
Would they? Like I said, Sony had no intention of being Nintendo's CD Rom Drive maker, they were eager to have their own system. They likely had no intention of ever following through, so I feel it's a faulty question. Sony is not a "guts" maker, they are a major brand. When Sony's name is on a product, they have made it and will sell it, not somebody else.


Sega's glut of hardware wasn't their problem, it was their lack of a compelling "killer app" to push hardware sales. The SNES continued to sell well into the 32-bit era thanks mostly to Donkey Kong Country and its sequels. I agree completely, the 32X and Saturn didn't have enough games like the old Sonic's. Part of the problem was the many titles that got left in Japan on the Saturn, though they still had most of the major third party titles that the PS1 and PC/Mac got too. Even when Sega had great Japan-imported games on Saturn, the concepts often didn't translate cleanly to Americans, and the marketing was abysmal.


What if SNK never went under? What if Atari and SNK actually went through with thier deal to make a cheaper AES?

What if Gunpei Yakoi lived to see the wonderswan thrive and knock gameboy down a peg?
SNK/Atari had little to no money to spend on advertising. However, I like the concept but it would have had to be far more encompassing arcade games beyond what they had and console based titles. Then again, Neo Geo games weren't exactly long play console games, since they were arcade games. Wonderswan was in the same boat, marketing budget was dwarfed by that of Nintendo's. But I do love the what-if there.

[Collector_Gaming]

You don't say?
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?160151-Theoretical-What-if
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?160995-a-famicom-nes-what-if
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?110257-Video-Game-quot-What-IF-quot
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?76074-What-if-the-SNES-had-a-CD-Rom-expansion-drive
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?28642-What-if

Well looking at those really quickly sounds like the big question is What if Nintendo actually kept with sony on partnership. What would have happened?

The short answer would be microsoft probably would have never even made console knowing they would never have even stood a chance. And probably sega would have saw the numbers pulling in from this alliance and not even bother releasing the dream cast making Nintendo/sony the ultimate ruler of the console market with no one to challenge them.

[IHatedSega]

Well looking at those really quickly sounds like the big question is What if Nintendo actually kept with sony on partnership. What would have happened?

The short answer would be microsoft probably would have never even made console knowing they would never have even stood a chance. And probably sega would have saw the numbers pulling in from this alliance and not even bother releasing the dream cast making Nintendo/sony the ultimate ruler of the console market with no one to challenge them.

Monopolies are never good for industries, just look at Pro Wrestling in America.

Sega would have been better off if Sony hadnt made the Playstation, it caused them to rush a lot of things and then Bernie Stolar came from being in charge of the American Playstation to being in charge of Sega America and he made it not have 2D games or RPGs, then ultimately killed the Saturn. Sega would have been a strong number 2 to Nintendo after the the N64 would have been a 3D cd based console since the Saturn wasnt originally going to be a 3D machine. In fact the N64 may not have been a 64 bit system, and the Dreamcast may not have been a 128 bit system. Microsoft would have entered the console market because then it would have been only Nintendo and Sega against each other. Sony would have only have made the cd attachment and hardware for Nintendo, it wouldnt have been an equal joint venture. It all rested on Sony not wanting to be a major player in the video game world, they did, so we got the Playtstation and here we are now.

[Rob2600]

What if Atari had distributed The Nintendo Entertainment System!!!

Atari would've deemed "Super Mario Bros." too Japanese-sounding and renamed it something like "Plumbers Quest" or "Mushroom Fighters". Nobody would've bought it and the U.S. Super Mario franchise would've been killed in 1985.

[Berserker]

What if Infocom hadn't been bought by Activision and left for dead shortly thereafter? Would the text adventure genre have survived and advanced in the mainstream as opposed to being revived by hobbyists years later?

What if Looking Glass hadn't gone under? Would they be making new awesome or would people just be lamenting that System Shock 5 just ain't the same?

What if John Romero and Tom Hall hadn't been ousted from Id Software?

What if Chris Crawford had stayed in the gaming industry and tried implementing his interactive storytelling ideas gradually from within instead of seperating from it completely?

And this is a minor one, but what if the source code for Daggerfall hadn't been lost and was instead released as open source when Bethesda put the game out for free a few years ago? Would there be shiny modern ports of it with modern features, perhaps even a modding community like there are for the later Elder Scrolls games?

[A.C. Sativa]

What if Atari had distributed The Nintendo Entertainment System!!!

Knowing Atari they would have fucked it all up (especially with Jack Tramiel in charge of Atari by then), we would have never recovered from the Crash of 83, and the console industry in the U.S. might not even exist, or at least certainly wouldn't be the billion-dollar business it is today.

[BricatSegaFan]

Knowing Atari they would have fucked it all up (especially with Jack Tramiel in charge of Atari by then), we would have never recovered from the Crash of 83, and the console industry in the U.S. might not even exist, or at least certainly wouldn't be the billion-dollar business it is today.

Whoa man dropped the f bomb. You must have some strong opinions about Atari lol

[retroguy]

I guess he hasn't played Atari today.

[wiggyx]

While I wasn't a "Sega guy" during he 8 & 16-bit eras, I was very much on board with the Saturn and VERY much with the DC. What saddens me more than Sega bowing out of the console market when they had finally nailed the fuck out of it, is that their best franchises have either gone untouched, molested to the point of total irrelevance, or given only enough attention to whet the appetites of us devoted fans ever since. I think a return to the console market could potentially revitalize Sega, especially if they played the game differently than Microsoft or Sony. Less is more is the new more is more. There's no reason for them to spend 9 figures developing a console at this point. I think jumping on the open source bandwagon could both give their brand a boost AND help put a name to what is an otherwise generic new platform.

It's sad to see a company fall so hard just when they hit their absolute peak (in terms of great ideas).

[Greg2600]

Monopolies are never good for industries, just look at Pro Wrestling in America.

Sega would have been better off if Sony hadn't made the Playstation, it caused them to rush a lot of things and then Bernie Stolar came from being in charge of the American Playstation to being in charge of Sega America and he made it not have 2D games or RPGs, then ultimately killed the Saturn. Sega would have been a strong number 2 to Nintendo after the the N64 would have been a 3D cd based console since the Saturn wasn't originally going to be a 3D machine. In fact the N64 may not have been a 64 bit system, and the Dreamcast may not have been a 128 bit system. Microsoft would have entered the console market because then it would have been only Nintendo and Sega against each other. Sony would have only have made the cd attachment and hardware for Nintendo, it wouldn't have been an equal joint venture. It all rested on Sony not wanting to be a major player in the video game world, they did, so we got the Playtstation and here we are now.

SEGA was just a horribly managed company, always were, and STILL are. They got incredibly lucky with the Genesis, in that they were the first big competitor to the exploding NES, and had a far advanced system. In many ways they stood on Nintendo's shoulders on that one. SEGA, unlike Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft, did not have the billions and billions of revenue/cash behind them to be able to make mistakes. They were kind of like a mid or small market baseball franchise, if they got it right, they had the flexibility to win, but if they had missteps it would hurt bad. And it did. For a Japanese company I really am shocked at how they allowed Sega of America to make so many important decisions or at least go with their calls.

They are dead for good in the console making business. They don't have the capital to get back in.


Knowing Atari they would have fucked it all up (especially with Jack Tramiel in charge of Atari by then), we would have never recovered from the Crash of 83, and the console industry in the U.S. might not even exist, or at least certainly wouldn't be the billion-dollar business it is today.

Ray Kassar was running Atari at the time for Warners, and it's unlikely they would have been able to just dump the home division onto Tramiel's lap with the Nintendo contract signed in 1983. Part of what derailed the deal was that Atari stalled and stalled waiting to see the capabilities of the MARIA chip (7800). It's possible that had the deal been signed, Atari's financial fiasco may have taken the NES with it before it ever got to US stores. Really no way of knowing. Plus it would have begun by Christmas '83, two years before Super Mario Bros. came about. Both Atari, regardless who owned them, and Nintendo, would be getting destroyed by the crash after effects. Famicom in 1984 didn't have much of a lineup different from Colecovision or any other system. I don't know if they would have lasted 2 years under that scenario. The deal was supposed to be 4 years, with a re-eval for another 4 year period. So again Nintendo could have dumped Atari by 1987 if they so choose.

[wiggyx]

They are dead for good in the console making business. They don't have the capital to get back in.


I really don't think it would require the amount of capital that you're thinking of. With indie and casual becoming so big, it seems like there is most definitely a way back into the market as "the small guy". Honestly, I think it could be the best time ever for a smaller company like Sega to make a splash.

[Rob2600]

What if Sega makes a Kickstarter page for a new game console?

[BricatSegaFan]

What if Sega makes a Kickstarter page for a new game console?

Don't take my idea!!!! I said that in that pffft neogeo x thread!!!!

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1948931


But still I'm glad I wasn't the only one with this idea :)

[Greg2600]

I really don't think it would require the amount of capital that you're thinking of. With indie and casual becoming so big, it seems like there is most definitely a way back into the market as "the small guy". Honestly, I think it could be the best time ever for a smaller company like Sega to make a splash.

What would they possibly have to offer the big boys don't? The developers are all in lock step with Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. For that matter Apple too. There's simply no room left for another console. SEGA's first party development could never sell it. Heck, weren't they nearly bankrupt a couple years ago?

[wiggyx]

What would they possibly have to offer the big boys don't? The developers are all in lock step with Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. For that matter Apple too. There's simply no room left for another console. SEGA's first party development could never sell it. Heck, weren't they nearly bankrupt a couple years ago?

Open source support.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console

People seem to be getting tired of the big brother methods that are or will be employed by "the big 3", and I think something like the Ouya could be great for Sega to place their name and support on.

[Rob2600]

Don't take my idea!!!! I said that in that pffft neogeo x thread!!!!

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1948931


But still I'm glad I wasn't the only one with this idea :)

Great minds think alike.

[sneekyweezel]

What if there was a Metroid that was made for the Nintendo64? Why?! Why?! ಠ_ಠ

[Collector_Gaming]

What if there was a Metroid that was made for the Nintendo64? Why?! Why?! ಠ_ಠ

wonder why there never was. I mean the button and stick control system that they perfected for FPS games (using the stick as your view and the c buttons as your movement) you'd think they would be like "hey guys why don't we make our first metroid fps game for the N64". And if not why not a nice clever 2d/3d hybrid action platformer atleast

[wiggyx]

I imagine it was for the same reason that we still have never received a home console Kid Icarus sequel. Nintendo often does't support its non-Miyamoto properties. They took a chance with Metroid Prime and it obviously paid off really well. Hopefully Other M didn't make them reconsider the strength of the franchise and we'll get more great Metroid titles.

[Collector_Gaming]

I imagine it was for the same reason that we still have never received a home console Kid Icarus sequel. Nintendo often does't support its non-Miyamoto properties. They took a chance with Metroid Prime and it obviously paid off really well. Hopefully Other M didn't make them reconsider the strength of the franchise and we'll get more great Metroid titles.

Wonder what they are gonna do when the guy finally sleeps in his final resting place (hopefully not for awhile but ya know thats how life works). Because makes it sound like he's everything they got.

[Collector_Gaming]

Here is a interesting What If that could have changed gaming as we know it entirely.

What if Nintendo never released R.O.B? Some say he is the savior of the gaming industry as nintendo convinced people into buying this toy robot which then is revealed that it can only work with supporting device the Nintendo Entertainment System.

[IHatedSega]

Stores werent going to carry another video game console, ROB made the thing more into a toy so without him the stores wouldnt have sold the console.

Id like to know what games Nintendo had the kids play in their study group? Has anyone tracked them down in the years since and interviewed them on why they didnt like the NES?

[wiggyx]

Wonder what they are gonna do when the guy finally sleeps in his final resting place (hopefully not for awhile but ya know thats how life works). Because makes it sound like he's everything they got.

It often seems that way...


Stores werent going to carry another video game console, ROB made the thing more into a toy so without him the stores wouldnt have sold the console.

Id like to know what games Nintendo had the kids play in their study group? Has anyone tracked them down in the years since and interviewed them on why they didnt like the NES?

I thought it was retailers that were put off of games, not the families/kids and that's why it needed to be a toy.

[IHatedSega]

I saw on G4 that Nintendo did a study group before they released the NES in New York to see if American kids would like it, and these kids they got all hated the games and didnt understand how to play.


Stores didnt want a video game console, which is why they made ROB to make it seem like it was a toy. They basically tricked them more or less they way they presented the NES early on.

[wiggyx]

Hmm, I'd like to see that info too (or hear it from the mouths of those now adults that did play testing). Hard to imagine these days, but it was a totally different time back then.

[The 1 2 P]

What if America was as laxed as other countries to the point where AO games were allowed to be sold in retail stores?

What if all the school shootings never happened(this is in relation to how it's affected the industry)?

What if the Video Game industry had lost the Supreme court hearing in 2011?

[tom]

Atari would've deemed "Super Mario Bros." too Japanese-sounding and renamed it something like "Plumbers Quest" or "Mushroom Fighters". Nobody would've bought it and the U.S. Super Mario franchise would've been killed in 1985.

I doubt that as Atari already had the Mario Bros fanchise in 1982

[tom]

What if Nintendo would have released the AVS (the original NES) in January 1984 (first CES showing).

What if Atari would have distributed the Sega Genesis, as Sega wanted to originally.

[Collector_Gaming]

What if America was as laxed as other countries to the point where AO games were allowed to be sold in retail stores?

What if all the school shootings never happened(this is in relation to how it's affected the industry)?

What if the Video Game industry had lost the Supreme court hearing in 2011?

I am gonna modify your question. What if the video game industry lost its first battle when mortal kombat came out?

[Collector_Gaming]

But i guess the answer to my rob question was what i thought. If he never existed american gaming industry would not have evolved as much as it did.


Here is another What If.. What if enough time was given to developers to complete E.T and polish pacman. Would the gaming market crash have ever happened? Would atari still be making consoles?

[Rob2600]

People seem to be getting tired of the big brother methods that are or will be employed by "the big 3"

The fact that 250 million people around the world own a Wii, Xbox 360, and/or PS3 indicate otherwise. (And the fact that 2.5 million people already own a Wii U in its first two months on the market.)


I doubt that as Atari already had the Mario Bros fanchise in 1982

Yes, but Super Mario Bros. wasn't an arcade port like Mario Bros. was. And I was being silly.

[IHatedSega]

What if enough time was given to developers to complete E.T and polish pacman. Would the gaming market crash have ever happened? Would atari still be making consoles?

Probably the only thing that would happen is that Atari would have had more money from more units sold and Ray Casar would have been in charge longer. They wouldnt have been sold or had computer systems. The arcade crash was gonna happen no matter what, these games didnt affect it. Other really crappy games though would still have piled up everywhere and businesses would have still gone out, but Atari's name wouldnt have been as damaged. Probably their fall would have started in the 5200 era, and the 7200 would have been sold in more places but people would passed it up to get an NES. There probably would have been more 7800 versions of games though.

[wiggyx]

The fact that 250 million people around the world own a Wii, Xbox 360, and/or PS3 indicate otherwise. (And the fact that 2.5 million people already own a Wii U in its first two months on the market.)



Yes, but Super Mario Bros. wasn't an arcade port like Mario Bros. was. And I was being silly.

I guess you're right, and current generation sales figures must be the ONLY indicator of future market viabilty and trends. I haven't heard a single person complain about the inherent problems with DLC, the online games that require servers which could be shut down at a moment's notice with no hope of establishing a user-created server in their stead, or the possibility of physical copies of software that are married to their consoles in the coming generations, quite possibly killing the used market and possibly the entire market.

Are you bickering with be for bickering's sake, or are you just seriously not willing to think ever-so-slightly outside the box and consider a fickle market who's tastes/wants/needs are ever changing? Who would have guessed 10 years ago that casual gaming would be so huge? Who would have thought 15 years ago that western game market would grow to its current state? Maybe open source gaming is the next bit thing. Is that such an absurd thing to imagine?

I'm starting to think your day job is super conservative business analyst. You're seem quite well informed and intelligent, but not at all willing to consider that there may truth beyond a sales figure or current financial status of a given corporation. Companies don't make a turnaround by doing what hasn't worked (I.e. Sega making mediocre games ad nauseum), but rather by taking a risk on a new idea.

[Kiddo]

Imagine...Zelda CD.

It would have been a top-down adventure like AlttP but with an anime FMV intro, cutscenes, and CD quality soundtrack. It would take advantage of the expanded disc space, and 3d effects of the 32-bit Play Station hardware.

Not exactly what you mean, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCX8vfUDSWU

Something like that? :P

[Rob2600]

I guess you're right, and current generation sales figures must be the ONLY indicator of future market viabilty and trends. I haven't heard a single person complain about the inherent problems with DLC, the online games that require servers which could be shut down at a moment's notice with no hope of establishing a user-created server in their stead, or the possibility of physical copies of software that are married to their consoles in the coming generations, quite possibly killing the used market and possibly the entire market.

...Who would have guessed 10 years ago that casual gaming would be so huge?

You contradict yourself. If "casual" gaming is so huge right now, why would companies continue catering to the "hardcore"?

"Casual" gamers don't care about DLC, user-created servers, physical copies, etc. They play Carnival Games on the Wii and download digital games on their iOS devices.

And before you lament the death of "hardcore" gaming, think about this: "casual" gamers pay $50 for the latest copy of Madden NFL, day one, whereas "hardcore" gamers are cheap bastards who wait six months for Halo 4 to hit the $10 bargain bin before they buy it. So, why would companies continue to cater to the "hardcore" users, when they're the ones who demand physical copies and servers to be online forever, but rarely want to pay full price for things? Maybe companies are finally wising up to cheap geeks with entitlement issues.

[wiggyx]

Again, you're stuck in a very, VERY singularly-mided line if logic.

There's no contradiction. The so-called "hardcore" AND casual markets exist side-by-side. I didn't point out the viability to casual gaming in order to say it has taken over the market and left no room for the serious gamer. Nor did I say that Eastern games are now completely irrelevant. Quite the opposite actually. Casual gaming has just grown the market.

That's like insisting that there's no market for pickup trucks because minivans are selling well. There's quite obviously a market for both.

Halo. I would just as easily lump Halo in with Madden based on its "for the masses" appeal. That, and to use your own logic, its sale figures don't lead me to believe that the majority of serious/hardcore gamers are waiting for it to hit a bargain bin. You're just pulling that one out of your butt, to be honest.

[Greg2600]

The Ouya is going to be a flop. As John Romero said it doesn't do enough to prevent piracy. Sega would be fools to follow that. Publishers like the current model because its all big corps too. Small developers still need tons of money to make anything bigger than a minigame and ouya does not offer the financial model to recoop investment.

I'm an adult and I can't understand how to use R.O.B. kids hated that thing.

[wiggyx]

It doesn't do ANYTHING to prevent piracy, and that's sort of the point.

[Rob2600]

People seem to be getting tired of the big brother methods that are or will be employed by "the big 3"

That was your original claim. My response was that hundreds of millions of people disagree with you. The amount of people "getting tired" are severely outnumbered, which is why game companies cater to them less and less as time goes on.

I'm not necessarily saying I want the industry to move in that direction, but companies go where the money is and recent history has shown that the "hardcore" market is full of cheap people and pirates.

I don't see too many Angry Birds/Cut the Rope/Doodle Jump/Plants vs. Zombies/Carnival Games/Just Dance 2 fans torrenting ROMs and then modding their consoles to play them. The "casual" market is where the money is.


It doesn't do ANYTHING to prevent piracy, and that's sort of the point.

Great business model.


I'm an adult and I can't understand how to use R.O.B. kids hated that thing.

R.O.B. wasn't aimed at children. It was Nintendo's Trojan horse to get the NES on store shelves. Retailers didn't want to carry any more video games at that time. "Ah, but this isn't a video game, it's an entertainment system. See, it even comes with an interactive robot!" Nintendo knew R.O.B. was pointless and therefore only developed two games for it.

[Greg2600]

It doesn't do ANYTHING to prevent piracy, and that's sort of the point.
That makes money how?

[wiggyx]

That was your original claim. My response was that hundreds of millions of people disagree with you. The amount of people "getting tired" are severely outnumbered, which is why game companies cater to them less and less as time goes on.

Great business model.

And my response was that you can't always count on past business models to predict how the market will shift in the future. Game companies will cater to themselves as they get bigger and bigger, not ANY user-base, regardless of casual or serious.

As if that notion is the all-encompassing model. Man, you really walk around with horse blinders on...


That makes money how?

In any number of ways.

[Rob2600]

And my response was that you can't always count on past business models to predict how the market will shift in the future.

But the video game industry is way bigger now than it has ever been in the past and we're seeing a trend. The industry has shifted to please the "casual" Wii Sports/Carnival Games/Angry Birds market and is less concerned with the "hardcore" we-want-your-servers-to-stay-online-forever market. I'm not saying companies are now totally ignoring the "hardcore" market, but it's definitely less important these days.

You seem to think "hardcore" gamers are still the main spenders, but they aren't. Look at how many "hardcore" gamers on this forum complained about the Wii being "casual" for the last 6+ years and swore it'd be a flop...yet the Wii went on to be the biggest money maker this generation *and* spawned copycat controllers from Microsoft and Sony. Like it or not, the "hardcore" market is dwindling, thanks in part to how cheap "hardcore" gamers are. Companies go where the money is.


Man, you really walk around with horse blinders on...

If you think "hardcore" gamers will all of a sudden rise up and shift the mainstream market back in their favor, you're the one with blinders on. If "hardcore" gamers were the industry's driving force, Super Mario would sell 50,000 copies and Ninja Gaiden would sell 20 million. Instead, Kinect Adventures is the Xbox 360's best selling title.

That doesn't mean a Kickstarted-funded, "hardcore" oriented console can't become a mild niche success.

[Collector_Gaming]

Rob is right sadly.

Look at sales on games even.... What sells the most? Physical games or downloads? Well for the console end its still physical games. But thanks to services like Xbox live and PS store and Nintendos version of the same service its shifting.

I mean the PC market thanks to services like steam. Buying a physical copy of a computer game no longer exists. And true hardcore gamers that have no care as to what platform they play like myself tend to lean to the PC for games because why spend 20 dollars on borderlands game of the year edition on xbox when i can get it for 5 dollars on steam during some crazy sale for the pc??

[treismac]

Here is another What If.. What if enough time was given to developers to complete E.T and polish pacman. Would the gaming market crash have ever happened? Would atari still be making consoles?

If enough time was given to the programmers of E.T. and Pac-Man (Howard Scott Warshaw and Tod Frye, respectively) to actually create worthwhile games rather than to rush out something that would fireup in a 2600 early Christmas morning, it would mean either two things:

1) Atari's suits learned to respect both the art of video game making and their consumers and, in turn, learned how to competently run a video game company or...

2) the rights to make the games just happened to be acquired earlier in the fiscal year, giving the programmer more time to work on their projects simply by chance.

If #2 happened, it is probable that Atari would have stayed in the game long enough to initially challenge Nintendo's meteoric rise, but if the same mindset ruled Atari that rushed out E.T. and Pac-Man, it was only a matter of time before their business practices yielded control of the North American the home console market to the Japanese. Providing that E.T. and Pac-Man on the 2600 were de facto the catalysts for the Crash, this scenario could have more than likely softened the "crash" into more of a "slump."

If #1 were the case, it is difficult picturing Nintendo seizing dominance the way they did, meaning Atari would probably have kept making consoles for years to come. Doubtless, the video game market wouldn't resemble what is looks like now. Nintendo along with their 3rd party developers changed the game in ways that would never have materialized if Atari maintained hegemony over the market, regardless of whether Atari surpassed their former golden days if they never precipitated the Crash of '83. New life and innovation was breathed into the market in the changing of the guards. If Atari remained the undisputed champs, I think all of us gamers would be worse off for it- not that we'd know any better, mind you.


There probably would have been more 7800 versions of games though.

It would be nice to have ports of Moon Patrol, Missile Command, Jungle Hunt, Frogger, etc. for the 7800, wouldn't it?

[Kiddo]

Rob is right sadly.

Look at sales on games even.... What sells the most? Physical games or downloads? Well for the console end its still physical games. But thanks to services like Xbox live and PS store and Nintendos version of the same service its shifting.

I mean the PC market thanks to services like steam. Buying a physical copy of a computer game no longer exists. And true hardcore gamers that have no care as to what platform they play like myself tend to lean to the PC for games because why spend 20 dollars on borderlands game of the year edition on xbox when i can get it for 5 dollars on steam during some crazy sale for the pc??

I'm not entirely sure how much of this relates to Rob's posts, but this seems to be one of those "PHYSICAL GAME COPIES ARE GONNA DIE" type of points. I think I'll respond to this with some counter-points to that;

1) Just because Nintendo's offering digital downloads for all their Wii U doesn't mean there's gonna be a big shift to using them exclusively anytime soon. To start with, the Wii U's hard drive options currently really can't hold the amount of retail titles available to download as it is.

2) The Nintendo Direct from this month, and how it addressed "transferring" Wii VC games to Wii U VC (hint: They're nickel-and-diming you for it, and if your game was Wii supported but not Wii U supported you're probably SOL on having Wii U upgrades), has pretty much already showed Nintendo fans an example of what kind of things can "go wrong" with a non-physically-stored game that is "married to your console" - and this is for stuff that cost $5-8. Imagine if next gen, this starts happening to those $69.99 "digital" retail games?

3) The PC Market had very different situations from the console market that allowed Steam to thrive as it did, which include factors ranging from things that are common issues in PC gaming (PCs not being uniform in spec and games needing to account for that) to things that started becoming ridiculously problematic around the time the Xbox 360 came out (Absurd, at times potentially PC-breaking DRM, which unfortunately has seeped over in the console gaming side in some manner on both physical and digital contents) that soured PC gamers to the idea of going to the store and buying a PC game. Console games are... were... well, most still are, barring some complicating factors and unique cases, simpler in that regard; if you got a physical copy of a game for X console, it would work on any of X console or X-console backward-compatible hardware. One of the main cons of "digital" game copies is that this is not the case, has never been the case, and unless developers drastically re-think their business methods, will never be the case.

Also, while this is a bit of an anecdote, people I've questioned on Miiverse on the subject of physical vs. digital have basically unaminously prefered physical copies. Of course, I'm sincerely hoping Nintendo puts up some official stats regarding digital downloads.

[A.C. Sativa]

What if all the school shootings never happened(this is in relation to how it's affected the industry)?

I don't really see how the school shootings affected the industry.

[The 1 2 P]

I don't really see how the school shootings affected the industry.

You don't? The reason why the ESA has been in court so many times is because certain states used those shootings to single out the industry as needing government mandated ratings and censorship. Those school shootings are also what led up to the Supreme Court case in 2011.

[A.C. Sativa]

You don't? The reason why the ESA has been in court so many times is because certain states used those shootings to single out the industry as needing government mandated ratings and censorship. Those school shootings are also what led up to the Supreme Court case in 2011.

So what? It hasn't changed anything, companies are still making really violent games and they're still selling like crazy.

[Greg2600]

And my response was that you can't always count on past business models to predict how the market will shift in the future. Game companies will cater to themselves as they get bigger and bigger, not ANY user-base, regardless of casual or serious.

As if that notion is the all-encompassing model. Man, you really walk around with horse blinders on...

In any number of ways.

The small design teams I think you're dreaming of do exist and put out games....on the iOS! Android too, but mainly Apple stuff. Any way, with new Xbox, PS4, Steam Box, and Nvidia's handheld, there's a lot of choices. I'm not doubting that Ouya will get plenty of games, but 99.9% of the public will never hear about them, because they don't have the corporate structure behind them. Now, does that mean they can't succeed? We shall see, I know people feel this could be like the 80's and 90's on computer systems. When game developers sprang up overnight, and eventually become huge. I suppose it's feasible, since those computer games were always pirated. But don't let them kid you, their goal is to get their stuff on the big consoles to make more money.

[The 1 2 P]

So what? It hasn't changed anything, companies are still making really violent games and they're still selling like crazy.

The reason why it hasn't changed anything content-wise is because the ESA has constantly gone to court over the years to prevent that from happening, finally making sure that all video game content(violent and non-violent alike) is protected speech under the constitution. But the school shootings over the last 10+ years have obviously changed the perception of video games to the casual outside observer/politicians/soccer moms.

Now for another what if. What if Nintendo had bought Sega after they left the hardware business.

[Compute]

SNES CD would have been terrible no matter what. CD-based gaming hadn't evolved by the time it would have had to come out. Sega CD had crappy FMV games for the same reason that the Wii has crappy motion-control-for-the-sake-of-it that it has. Nobody knew what to do with it, but laserdisc games already existed so it probably seemed like a good jumping-off point.

What if the Saturn hadn't been a complete pile of crap in the US? Great arcade ports, some neat gimmicks (steering wheel, netlink), but I think I have yet to play a Saturn game I like that is not an arcade port or . I know when I bought my Playstation in 1997 the Saturn was still a contender, but the PSX felt better and had more exclusive titles that I thoroughly enjoyed.

Oh, oh, I have a good one:

What if first-round "multimedia" stuff like Grolier Encyclopedia, Prize Fighter, and such really had been the killer app and took off like gangbusters? Do you think the CD-i would have had a chance in such a market, or would Sega have been able to use their installed base? If "multimedia boxes" like CD-i or 3DO had taken off, would Sega have had a chance in this market as a "games" company? Could the Pippin have saved Apple as a late contender in this market?

[Collector_Gaming]

I found the ULTIMATE what if.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7iyskNfNz1rw70wfo1_500.png

What if this is all true (I am not gonna do cross referencing right now to see if its 100% true). What if they didn't lose the license and Popeye was the star of Donkey Kong?

What would video games be like today? Would mario still exist?

But even if so lets just assume for a second What If mario never did come to be. Super Mario bros never happened.... What would gaming be today? What would Nintendo be without its flag ship game series and staring characters?

[Jorpho]

That is a pretty interesting question: what if one of the early, most popular arcade games was just a derivative of something else?

It's kind of tempting to say that games would have either gravitated towards licensed properties and/or otherwise stuck with simple concepts when no license could easily be applied, such that games would have always stayed in the shadow of something else. But something else like Dig Dug would have come along eventually to show the way.

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

What if the Turbografx-16 won the 16-bit Wars?

The Turbo didn't have a chance against the SNES. It's sort of an intermediate between the NES and SNES on power whereas the Genesis is much closer to the SNES.

[Aussie2B]

Hardware strength isn't much of a factor in popularity. I mean, the PS2 was weaker than the Xbox and GameCube. The Wii was weaker than the 360 and PS3 yet still massively popular. In Japan, the PC Engine crushed the Mega Drive. It's more about the kinds of software a system gets than anything. The PC Engine was more in tune with Japanese tastes than the Mega Drive. It could've beaten the Super Famicom too if not for the fact that the Super Famicom was getting tons of RPGs from Squaresoft and Enix and such. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy alone are a big factor in which system sells best in Japan. In terms of impressiveness of the games, that's mostly on the developer. Despite some hardware weaknesses of the PC Engine, Rondo of Blood looks and sounds more impressive than almost anything on Genesis/Sega CD and SNES.