MOTHER 2 (Earthbound) on Japanese Virtual Console March 20th

[treismac]

Is it headed to North America too? Let's hope so. Also, anyone wanna predict Earthbound cartridge sales coming back to earth or vice versa in the wake of this news?

http://earthboundcentral.com/2013/01/10890/

[Aussie2B]

I don't know if this news will make much of a difference. There are many gamers who are convinced that it's legally impossible for Nintendo to re-release Earthbound in the US (as misguided as that view may be). And the Japanese GBA got a re-release of the first two Mother games, so there is precedence for Nintendo reviving the series in Japan but skipping out on doing so in the US. I personally think there's a pretty fair chance of Earthbound getting a re-release in the US in some form eventually, but there's no knowing if this will be it.

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

Okay. Buy Mother 2 from the VC, then play Earthbound via the homebrew channel. You can even inject the Earthbound ROM in place of M2 and use Nintendo's official emulator.

Clear conscience imo.

[wiggyx]

I'm ready to buy a hard copy for sub-50 dollar prices again. Come on US re-release!!!

[Tupin]

Nothing is going to go forward with a North American release until Itoi/Nintendo agree to changing the Sky Runner theme. That's what's holding it back.

[JSoup]

Okay. Buy Mother 2 from the VC, then play Earthbound via the homebrew channel. You can even inject the Earthbound ROM in place of M2 and use Nintendo's official emulator.

Clear conscience imo.

If you have access to the Homebrew Channel, you can just skip the "buy Mother 2" part like the rest of the internet has done and just use ZSNES Wii Version (or whatever the popular SNES emulator is these days).

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

If you have access to the Homebrew Channel, you can just skip the "buy Mother 2" part like the rest of the internet has done and just use ZSNES Wii Version (or whatever the popular SNES emulator is these days).

Yes, of course. However, that's why added "clear conscience imo" at the bottom of my post. Some people hold back from playing the game via Snes9x-gx on their Wii because they believe in only playing games which they legally own.

If you buy the Mother 2 on VC you legally own a copy of the game, and you can go ahead and download Earthbound without any mental reservations about doing so.

Now, there's heavy disclaimer here:

It would still be illegal. When you buy Mother 2 on VC you have the right to play Mother 2 on VC and nothing else. You can't legally download Earthbound, you can't even download a Mother 2 ROM to play on your PC.

However, from an ethical standpoint I feel you've literally "paid your dues" to the developer by purchasing the VC version.

[wiggyx]

Nothing is going to go forward with a North American release until Itoi/Nintendo agree to changing the Sky Runner theme. That's what's holding it back.

I doubt that's a major holdup at this point. Nintendo can see the hype surrounding this game in the US at this point, and it would take very little effort to make the change(s).

Nintendo hasn't had a fresh idea in years IMO. Why not bring a decet franchise to life in the US? This would be a simple (and cheap) way to test the waters and it would mean that they could go on just remastering old crap and churning out more pseudo-2D Mario games for the 3DS while offering next to nothing worthwhile for their home consoles.

[Rob2600]

Nothing is going to go forward with a North American release until Itoi/Nintendo agree to changing the Sky Runner theme. That's what's holding it back.

Do you have an official source to back that up?

[wiggyx]

Do you have an official source to back that up?

Good luck finding "official", but this is clearly and intelligently written and full of many legal bits that I understand to be accurate regarding copyright law (of which I have a moderate amount of personal experience being a designer and holding a few trademarks of my own, as well as being included in a handful of patents).

http://earthboundcentral.com/2009/02/earthbound-legal-issues/

http://earthboundcentral.com/2012/07/earthbounds-specific-legal-issues/


If Nintendo wants to release it here, they will. NOTHING so simple can hold that up. The change could be made with minimal investment in either time or money.

[Leo_A]

Those articles are theories and nothing more.

[IHatedSega]

Nintendo needs to wake the fuck up and realize their older fans are old enough now to understand turned based combat. RPG's werent popular with kids who were used to Mario platforming, its that simple, thats why Earthbound failed.

WHY CANT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gameguy]

Yes, of course. However, that's why added "clear conscience imo" at the bottom of my post. Some people hold back from playing the game via Snes9x-gx on their Wii because they believe in only playing games which they legally own.

If you buy the Mother 2 on VC you legally own a copy of the game, and you can go ahead and download Earthbound without any mental reservations about doing so.

Now, there's heavy disclaimer here:

It would still be illegal. When you buy Mother 2 on VC you have the right to play Mother 2 on VC and nothing else. You can't legally download Earthbound, you can't even download a Mother 2 ROM to play on your PC.

However, from an ethical standpoint I feel you've literally "paid your dues" to the developer by purchasing the VC version.
What good would doing that accomplish? Why would Nintendo bother to release the game here at all if they still get the money anyway? I would think refusing to pay for a copy until it gets a legitimate release here would better convince them to have it localized for North America, assuming there's enough demand for it here.

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

What good would doing that accomplish? Why would Nintendo bother to release the game here at all if they still get the money anyway? I would think refusing to pay for a copy until it gets a legitimate release here would better convince them to have it localized for North America, assuming there's enough demand for it here.

It would accomplish you playing the game. Not everyone is so ready to fight the good fight. Refusing to get it from the Japanese VC would accomplish nothing other than reinforcing Nintendo's current apathy on the matter.

If anything, Nintendo could notice how many people bought it with USA billing addresses and see potential.

I think the whole issue is a good example of how short sighted Nintendo (and other Japanese devs) can still be when it comes to understanding what the rest of the world wants.

[wiggyx]

Those articles are theories and nothing more.

Indeed, which is how I tried to present the info when I prefaced it with "good luck finding anything official". Since we aren't privy to official rationale, theory is all we have, and those articles contain sound theory backed by empirical data, and not just some fanboy's frustration-infused grumblings.

[rkotm]

I realize EB/MOther 2 has copyrighted music in it (certain samples and songs), but...it gets a digital re release in japan, (not to mention mother 1 +2 10 years ago ) and it's okay for the ""legal problems"" (copyrights, if there are) to stay, but not in america? I think Nintendo of America just doesnt like EB. I think something went down during it's American release in 1995 that caused a big stink with NOA, and they'll forever never consider any American re-release, or else they would have by now.

[JSoup]

It would accomplish you playing the game.

So would just skipping all that crap and just emulating the game like the rest of the internet did 6+ years ago.

[Edmond Dantes]

I realize EB/MOther 2 has copyrighted music in it (certain samples and songs), but...it gets a digital re release in japan, (not to mention mother 1 +2 10 years ago ) and it's okay for the ""legal problems"" (copyrights, if there are) to stay, but not in america?

You're underestimating how different our cultures are.

Japan doesn't take copyright law very seriously. They allow people to create derivative works and even sell it at conventions (Doujinshi, anyone?). Hell, Lupin the Third--one of Japan's longest-running franchises--is a walking CASE of copyright infringement, and this was why early attempts to export the character had to change his name.

And as has been stated, America is a very litigitious country. We try to sue restaurants for selling coffee hot, for chrissakes.

That being said, this so-called "music issue" sounds like B.S. to me too, and some comments I've heard/read from Nintendo regarding Earthbound make me concur with you--Nintendo just hates Earthbound and wants to bury it.

[Rob2600]

theory is all we have, and those articles contain sound theory backed by empirical data, and not just some fanboy's frustration-infused grumblings.

I'm sorry, but those links are in fact fanboy grumbling. The Skyrunner song is a perfectly innocent homage to The Who and nothing more...certainly nothing that would cause a lawsuit.

[wiggyx]

I'm sorry, but those links are in fact fanboy grumbling. The Skyrunner song is a perfectly innocent homage to The Who and nothing more...certainly nothing that would cause a lawsuit.

And that's what someone with ZERO knowledge about US copyright law would think. No offense, but "perfectly innocent homage" is perfectly ignorant of how such things work.

[Rob2600]

And that's what someone with ZERO knowledge about US copyright law would think. No offense, but "perfectly innocent homage" is perfectly ignorant of how such things work.

Am I really being lectured about copyright law by the guy selling NES and SNES reproduction cartridges on his web site?

[Ninja_with_ Glasses]

Am I really being lectured about copyright law by the guy selling NES and SNES reproduction cartridges on his web site?

That does seem to be the case.

[JSoup]

Am I really being lectured about copyright law by the guy selling NES and SNES reproduction cartridges on his web site?

If he is doing that and getting away with it, I'd think he'd be the perfect person to ask about it.

[rkotm]

You're underestimating how different our cultures are.

Japan doesn't take copyright law very seriously. They allow people to create derivative works and even sell it at conventions (Doujinshi, anyone?). Hell, Lupin the Third--one of Japan's longest-running franchises--is a walking CASE of copyright infringement, and this was why early attempts to export the character had to change his name.

And as has been stated, America is a very litigitious country. We try to sue restaurants for selling coffee hot, for chrissakes.

That being said, this so-called "music issue" sounds like B.S. to me too, and some comments I've heard/read from Nintendo regarding Earthbound make me concur with you--Nintendo just hates Earthbound and wants to bury it.

WoW, i had no idea they were so lax about it-It never occured to me about the doujin comics..
Side note, is the Earthbound box holding up okay? I still think about it from time to time, like an old car lol.
I'm going to look up Lupin the Third, sounds interesting. Also, i wonder if Japan even likes Mother series half as much as the west does..

[Aussie2B]

The people who obsess over each and every reference in Earthbound and the supposed legal issues that would result from them fail to realize that US-released games across the board are littered with references. If you want to talk specifically music, there are games that have blatantly ripped off other songs and others that sound very similar merely by coincidence, and yet no lawsuits resulted (and, yes, this includes games released within the last decade, if anybody thinks things were more lax when Earthbound was released on SNES). Or how about Working Designs releases? Their games were loaded with pop culture references, and I highly doubt they paid anybody for the right to include them.

But this is all ignoring the basic fact that replacing a song or editing a sprite would be very easy, so even if there were legal issues, there is NOTHING preventing Nintendo from addressing them and releasing the game if they so desired.

[Rob2600]

If he is doing that and getting away with it, I'd think he'd be the perfect person to ask about it.

I don't think this makes him the perfect person to ask about copyright laws:

"I know there are mixed feelings about reproduction carts, and if it's not your thing, then I hope you won't hold our decision to offer such things against us." (http://rosecoloredgaming.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/do-you-like-reproduction-games/)

[Tupin]

Regardless, there are changes that have to be made to the game. Heck, they had to make changes to get it released here originally, whether it be getting rid of the implied spanking or changing the red cross on the hospital to a green one, since the Red Cross owns that.

Itoi is adamant about not changing anything, if I recall. He'd rather see it never released outside Japan again than change the things required.

[Aussie2B]

I'm not so convinced that Nintendo of America HAD to make the changes they did in order to release the game in the US, as opposed to the localizers merely thinking it would be a good idea to do so. According to the linked page, the crosses were removed entirely, and prior to this whole "Earthbound legally can't come out in the US" conspiracy nonsense of recent years, it was always regarded as just another instance of Nintendo self-censoring any and all instances of crosses so as not to get grief from religious groups (same kind of deal with the spanking; that wouldn't be a legal problem). Whether you look at games before Earthbound's release, around the same time, or after, red crosses have been used to indicate medical/health-related things in games countless times, without any legal problems resulting. The article the Earthbound Legal Issues page links to about the Red Cross going after game developers seems to suggest that any claims made weren't taken seriously in a court of law, and it seems to be more of an issue about the Red Cross worrying about violent games giving them a bad name than caring about every single instance of a red cross in a video game.

[Rob2600]

Exactly. Those links are merely fanboy speculation, not actual proof.

[JSoup]

I don't think this makes him the perfect person to ask about copyright laws:

"I know there are mixed feelings about reproduction carts, and if it's not your thing, then I hope you won't hold our decision to offer such things against us." (http://rosecoloredgaming.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/do-you-like-reproduction-games/)

How a person personally feels about a law and how they abide by it are two different things. I have to assume that if his business is made around what is basically custom bootlegging and he's getting away with it, either he knows something we don't or the law just hasn't caught up with him yet.

You see this all the time working small conventions, a big portion of any given dealers room is going to be people who printed out or otherwise burned their stock in their living rooms and you're basically paying for the pretty packing.

[Leo_A]

Regardless, there are changes that have to be made to the game.

I wish people would stop saying things like this as if they were fact.

We're not privy to these details and Nintendo has never publically spoken about their reasons on why Earthbound never made it to the Virtual Console a few years back after being rated by the ESRB and even having a demo of it included on Animal Crossing in Japan.

[Edmond Dantes]

WoW, i had no idea they were so lax about it-It never occured to me about the doujin comics..
Side note, is the Earthbound box holding up okay? I still think about it from time to time, like an old car lol.
I'm going to look up Lupin the Third, sounds interesting. Also, i wonder if Japan even likes Mother series half as much as the west does..

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you--I for some reason have had bad cases of oversleeping.

Yes, the box is holding up fine. I want to get a box protector for it soon. And you might have heard somewhere that I now have an actual game to go with it. ^__^

Lupin the Third is awesome. It's about a professional thief and his allies... so kind of Ocean's Eleven/The Thomas Crown Affair, but far more whimsical and in serial format. The copyright issue comes in because Lupin the Third is a pretty unabashed fanfic/ripoff of the Arsene Lupin novels by Maurice LeBlanc, which at the time were not in the public domain (some of them are now, and can be found in English on Project Gutenberg... they're worth a read).

And yes, Japan LOVES Mother. All three games recently made it onto Famitsu's "Top 100 Games of All Time" lists, with Mother 2 and 3 especially ranking pretty high on said list. Mother 3 was also the first game in history to get all-perfects from that magazine, which is notoriously brutal.

[fahlim003]

And yes, Japan LOVES Mother. All three games recently made it onto Famitsu's "Top 100 Games of All Time" lists, with Mother 2 and 3 especially ranking pretty high on said list. Mother 3 was also the first game in history to get all-perfects from that magazine, which is notoriously brutal.
Got links? The most recent top 100 from Famitsu (that I could find) comes from March 2006 (http://www.edge-online.com/features/japan-votes-all-time-top-100/), which is a month before Mother 3 was released. Additionally, only twenty games have gotten a perfect 40 and the first one was Ocarina of Time back in 1998 while Mother 3 is not one of the twenty listed. Mother 3 scored a 35: http://earthboundcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/famitsu04282006b.jpg
Unless you're talking about something else, I was slightly confused by your comments so feel free to correct if necessary.

As for Mother 2 being released on the Virtual Console, I say it's better than nothing. It'd be great if it somehow fueled a release of EarthBound but I'm not holding my breath.

[rkotm]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you--I for some reason have had bad cases of oversleeping.

Yes, the box is holding up fine. I want to get a box protector for it soon. And you might have heard somewhere that I now have an actual game to go with it. ^__^

Lupin the Third is awesome. It's about a professional thief and his allies... so kind of Ocean's Eleven/The Thomas Crown Affair, but far more whimsical and in serial format. The copyright issue comes in because Lupin the Third is a pretty unabashed fanfic/ripoff of the Arsene Lupin novels by Maurice LeBlanc, which at the time were not in the public domain (some of them are now, and can be found in English on Project Gutenberg... they're worth a read).

And yes, Japan LOVES Mother. All three games recently made it onto Famitsu's "Top 100 Games of All Time" lists, with Mother 2 and 3 especially ranking pretty high on said list. Mother 3 was also the first game in history to get all-perfects from that magazine, which is notoriously brutal.
It's cool man. that's great, is it like one of those plastic boxes that are see through?
And how much was EB? If i could buy it again, i'd pay 120 for it..Especially since it's my favorite game of all time. I saw some of Lupin, i love 80's anime. I'm thinking Itoi had a falling out with NOA during EB's American release, of course who knows, but i really wonder what the real story is, and if there are any about Nintendo..There isn't much inside info on the company, like how it works and stuff, unlike Atari or Sega, i dont know much about the company's behin the scenes stuff-like, was Nintendo doubting the Gamecube before it came out? It seems Nintendo was depressed at the time (a whole company depressed, it can happen)...Anyways sorry everybody for going waaaaaay off topic.

[Edmond Dantes]

It's cool man. that's great, is it like one of those plastic boxes that are see through?

That's what I had in mind, yes. Haven't bought one yet (not enough spare cash at the moment) but I'm being really protective in the meantime.


And how much was EB?

It wound up costing me $150. Shipped.


If i could buy it again, i'd pay 120 for it..Especially since it's my favorite game of all time. I saw some of Lupin, i love 80's anime.

80s and 1990s was best for anime, IMO. I look at the stuff out today and it all seems like just watered-down rehashes of the classics. Although unlike western animation, anime still offers decent stuff every once in awhile--such as the Devil May Cry anime.

[wiggyx]

Am I really being lectured about copyright law by the guy selling NES and SNES reproduction cartridges on his web site?

Yup, point?


I don't think this makes him the perfect person to ask about copyright laws:

"I know there are mixed feelings about reproduction carts, and if it's not your thing, then I hope you won't hold our decision to offer such things against us." (http://rosecoloredgaming.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/do-you-like-reproduction-games/)

Of course you're assuming that my quoted comment has ANYTHING to do with the legality regarding repro carts.



How a person personally feels about a law and how they abide by it are two different things. I have to assume that if his business is made around what is basically custom bootlegging and he's getting away with it, either he knows something we don't or the law just hasn't caught up with him yet.

You see this all the time working small conventions, a big portion of any given dealers room is going to be people who printed out or otherwise burned their stock in their living rooms and you're basically paying for the pretty packing.

And in this case, the time and effort that goes into building the carts, designing labels/packaging, building packaging, etc.