Ghouls 'n Ghosts (1988) for the NES?

[ColecoFan1981]

Although there were only two Capcom Ghosts releases in the world of Nintendo (Ghosts 'n Goblins for the NES and Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts for the Super NES) I cannot help wonder if Capcom could've released the original Ghouls 'n Ghosts for the NES? It would've benefited from their sound library they'd used in their other 1989 NES releases such as Mega Man II and Disney's DuckTales.

I'm led to believe they never did so for the NES, since Nintendo's main competitor, Sega, had already self-released Ghouls (under license from Capcom) for both its Genesis (1989) and Master System (1990) consoles.

Of course, all three of these Ghosts titles are different. Of the three, only the Super NES release, Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts, was never released in arcades.

~Ben

[Rob2600]

Could you repeat the question?

[ColecoFan1981]

Could you repeat the question?
I should have asked: do you think there could have been a port of Ghouls for the original NES 8-bit? Again, take into consideration the fact that this game was licensed to Sega for release on their Genesis and Master System consoles. And the old standby fact that Capcom could only release five titles per calendar year and just for the NES.

The games Capcom did release in 1989 for the NES were:
Mega Man II (6/89)
Disney's DuckTales (9/89)
Strider (7/89)
Willow (12/89)
(I can't think of the last one for that year--please help me)

~Ben

[Drixxel]

The more that I mull it over, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that Capcom may have given an NES port of Ghouls 'n' Ghosts consideration, assuming a legal means to do so. There was work started on an NES port of Black Tiger (http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/black-tiger-nes-cancelled/) that never came to anything, so it's not a stretch to imagine that preliminary efforts may have begun on other arcade-to-NES conversions from the period. That would seem plausible for Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, a game which inevitably received a smattering of ports to home computers and consoles in the immediate years following its arcade release. Also, I bet a Ghouls 'n' Ghosts NES port would have turned out quite interestingly - the SMS conversion certainly went in its own direction yet remained recognizable and fun to play.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I'm willing to bet the reason it didn't happen had to do with the limit of games third party publishers could make for the NES per year. Dai Makimura probably was considered, then delayed, and then cancelled. It came out on the Master System though, and as much as I like the NES, there's no way a potential NES version would have came out nearly as well.

[Edmond Dantes]

Black Tiger never made it to the NES? That... actually surprises me, because when I play it I can't help but think "this game would feel right at home on the NES."

Seriously, it just has that NES "feel." I'm not sure how to describe it.

[chrisbid]

I'm willing to bet the reason it didn't happen had to do with the limit of games third party publishers could make for the NES per year. Dai Makimura probably was considered, then delayed, and then cancelled. It came out on the Master System though, and as much as I like the NES, there's no way a potential NES version would have came out nearly as well.

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plus, looking through the nes library there seemed to be a soft ban of arcade ports. it wouldnt surprise me if publishers were strongly encouraged to release console specific games rather than release arcade ports the same way sony discouraged 2D games on the PS and PS2.

[Rob2600]

looking through the nes library there seemed to be a soft ban of arcade ports. it wouldnt surprise me if publishers were strongly encouraged to release console specific games rather than release arcade ports the same way sony discouraged 2D games on the PS and PS2.

But there were a ton of arcade ports on the NES.

[treismac]

it wouldnt surprise me if publishers were strongly encouraged to release console specific games rather than release arcade ports the same way sony discouraged 2D games on the PS and PS2.

I have never heard this before. Is this documented fact, speculation, or somewhere in between?

[ccovell]

this

plus, looking through the nes library there seemed to be a soft ban of arcade ports. it wouldnt surprise me if publishers were strongly encouraged to release console specific games rather than release arcade ports the same way sony discouraged 2D games on the PS and PS2.

I have never heard this before. Is this documented fact, speculation, or somewhere in between?

It's just that by 1987-88, NES gamers expected far more depth (& longevity) from their games than straight arcade ports could deliver.

[sneekyweezel]

Don't know but it did get released for the SharpX68000.

[InsaneDavid]

I'm willing to bet the reason it didn't happen had to do with the limit of games third party publishers could make for the NES per year. Dai Makimura probably was considered, then delayed, and then cancelled. It came out on the Master System though, and as much as I like the NES, there's no way a potential NES version would have came out nearly as well.

There was no such restriction on Famicom games, where an NES port of Ghouls 'n Ghosts would have been born from. Also remember Micronics developed the Famicom / NES port of Ghosts 'n Goblins, which was really a quick and dirty arcade port as most of their games were. A couple years later Capcom is much more established making new Famicom properties rather than backporting their old arcade catalog, and I'm guessing that's where most of their resources were being concentrated. Also their overall quality had increased which would explain why they didn't just have a developer-for-hire do the conversion as with Ghosts 'n Goblins.

[Rob2600]

It's just that by 1987-88, NES gamers expected far more depth (& longevity) from their games than straight arcade ports could deliver.

The fact that Contra, Super C, Jackal, Blades of Steel, Cabal, Arch Rivals, NARC, Super Sprint, Double Dragon, Double Dragon II, Arkanoid, Ikari Warriors II, Ikari Warriors III, P.O.W., Bad Dudes, Sky Shark, Legendary Wings, Vindicators, Shinobi, TMNT II, and many more arcade ports were released on the NES in 1988 and later indicates otherwise.

Obviously, publishers still saw a healthy market for NES arcade ports beyond the first few years.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

There was no such restriction on Famicom games, where an NES port of Ghouls 'n Ghosts would have been born from. Also remember Micronics developed the Famicom / NES port of Ghosts 'n Goblins, which was really a quick and dirty arcade port as most of their games were. A couple years later Capcom is much more established making new Famicom properties rather than backporting their old arcade catalog, and I'm guessing that's where most of their resources were being concentrated. Also their overall quality had increased which would explain why they didn't just have a developer-for-hire do the conversion as with Ghosts 'n Goblins.

I'm sure there were multiple factors that kept Ghouls 'n Ghosts from seeing the light of day on Nintendo's platform.

From a US standpoint, there was Capcom's restriction on the number of games that they could publish per year.

From the Japan-side of things, I'm guessing that the Ghost 'n Goblins series wasn't especially popular there, and/or the sequel was deemed too similar to the original it would be redundant to release Daimakimura for the Famicom. Keep in mind that the Master System and MegaDrive saw Daimakaura as something fresh because neither system got the original game. To a new audience, even a by-the-numbers sequel game will have the same impact as if it were fresh.

It's also entirely possible a Famicom build of the game exists as an unreleased, undumped beta.

Then there's the strength of the license - Ghosts 'n Goblins has never really been a strong card in Capcom's hand, especially back in the early days before the 16-bit incarnations. I'm sure that when Sega licensed it from Capcom in the early days of the MegaDrive, it was all but the final nail in the coffin for the game to appear on the NES.

Of course this is all just speculation given the atmosphere in gaming at the time. I suppose there's no way we'll ever know unless someone of authority at Capcom at the time talks about it sometime down the road.

[chrisbid]

But there were a ton of arcade ports on the NES.

for a thought experiment, take the list of nes games released in 1988. (ill use rfgeneration.com's list)


1943 - different
Adventure Island - different (Wonderboy)
Bionic Commando - different
Bubble Bobble - mostly authentic (passwords and extra stages)
Bump n Jump - different
City Connection - authentic
Cobra Command - different
Contra - different
Defender II - authentic
Double Dragon - different
Figthing Golf - authentic
Galaga - authentic
Gauntlet - different
Ikari Warriors II - different
Iron Tank - different
Jackal - different
Joust - authentic
Karnov - different
Legendary Wings - different
Life Force - different (Salamander)
Mike Tyson's Punchout - different
Millipede - authentic
Paperboy - authentic
Rampage - authentic
Renegade - different
Seicross - authentic
Xenophobe - authentic
Xevious - authentic


So yes, there are a lot of arcade ports, but the majority of games on this list have significant differences between the arcade and NES versions. Most of the authentic games tended to be older games and games that originated in the US. The two biggest arcade hits on this list, Double Dragon and Gauntlet, were changed dramatically from the arcade version.

It is well known Nintendo was fairly uncompromising when it came to their treatment of third parties. It is also a fact that Nintendo had more or less turned their back on the coinop market by 1988 (their only coinop releases in 1988 were playchoice titles... ports from NES games). If you take these two points into consideration, it is not a stretch to think they may have had something to do with the trend to morph arcade titles into NES exclusive titles.

[Rob2600]

yes, there are a lot of arcade ports, but the majority of games on this list have significant differences between the arcade and NES versions.

Naturally, changes have to be made when shoehorning top-tier arcade games into an aging 8-bit game console. Contra was extremely popular and even though it had some changes, it's still essentially a direct arcade port.

[chrisbid]

contra on the NES shared the same gameplay with the arcade original, but the stage layouts are almost completely brand new. therefore they are two different games.


im not arguing for or against the practice. there are plenty of reasons to fundamentally change a title from arcade to home port.
NES contra is a better game than arcade contra, but arcade double dragon is better than NES double dragon. NES ninja gaiden is superior to arcade ng, but NES strider is a sad mortal compared to the god of arcade strider.

the question is if and how much influence did nintendo have in the trend of NESizing arcade games. i would love to hear what somebody like howard phillips has to say on the subject.

[Tanooki]

I have never heard this before. Is this documented fact, speculation, or somewhere in between?

It is in a way, but I have no proof. Back at the beginning of the 2000's for a couple years I worked for Midway Home Entertainment in the console/handheld area and this subject came up as it was speculation and grumbling in gaming publications on/off line at the time so I approached a supervisor about it shortly after starting there. I don't remember the entire conversation in detail, but basically Sony did have a soft ban on 2D games for the PS1. The words I do remember the supervisor saying though was that 'Sony only wanted 3D as it was the future, and they discouraged 2D games because it was of the past and of Nintendo, for kids, and if someone did release a game they were in fact given a fine by the company they had to pay to get the game published.'

As such Midway wasn't keen on paying to release a game on top of licensing fees and the rest already but Capcom having their arcade powerhouse of fighters and the sort would pay the bill to get their games out knowing the fighter fanboy pool would get it back to them in short order. Eventually the childish soft ban was lifted, but for a time if my supervisor wasn't full of it, they did nail developers for it. I found it doubly insulting and angering they did it, and ripped on Nintendo for being 2D and out of date trash at the same time. It's another story but it was a tier of anti-Nintendo propaganda Sony invented and pushed to developers and the early gaming media through Sony Media and other channels which got so entrenched still to date Nintendo is still the 'kiddie box' and certain games aren't suitable on there despite at least since the GC they've been getting some M titles from less spineless developers.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Surprised that nobody here has discussed the Sega Master System version of Ghouls 'N Ghosts!

While it's far from perfect, it actually has some things completely unique to that version (additional armors, shops, etc.).

The graphics aren't half bad either all things considered.

SMS handles games with a dark, rich color palette like G'NG really nicely.

[chrisbid]

The words I do remember the supervisor saying though was that 'Sony only wanted 3D as it was the future, and they discouraged 2D games because it was of the past and of Nintendo, for kids, and if someone did release a game they were in fact given a fine by the company they had to pay to get the game published.'




which is odd, i believe the number of 2D n64 games are extremely low