PS4 Pre-Release Rumor/Speculation Thread

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

So, this went live today.

https://us.playstation.com/meeting2013/

Sony has little else to announce at the moment, so, I'm guessing PS4.

[Bojay1997]

I think that's the general thinking regarding this announcement, but I'm not sure what announcing this early will get them. If anything, it will give MS more time to adjust the specs of their next console upward or at least more in line with the PS4 if the previously leaked specs for both consoles are remotely accurate. I would actually prefer it if Sony announced a really amazing slate of first party titles for the PS3 and Vita on the 20th as their first party release list for the rest of the year is pretty non-existent after Sly, GoW and Last of Us drop in the next three months.

[WCP]

it will give MS more time to adjust the specs of their next console upward or at least more in line with the PS4 if the previously leaked specs for both consoles are remotely accurate.

Not if they are planning on releasing this November. Their hardware would have had to have been finalized a couple of months ago to launch this year.

[Press_Start]

Not if they are planning on releasing this November. Their hardware would have had to have been finalized a couple of months ago to launch this year.

That's odd. Didn't Hirai say he let Microsoft go first just last week (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/21/ps4-sony-will-let-microsoft-make-first-move)?

So there's only two real conclusions I can draw: A) MS has already released XBOX 720 and are playing the biggest international Jedi mind trick in history. Or B) Playstation Move 2!!!! Twice da Ballz Edition. Ya! Ya! Ya! Ya!

Srsly, Sony pull your act together.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Kaz isn't directly in charge of the Playstation division any more, so if he was planning on holding out in the game of "release-chicken" that may have been nixed by new full-time Playstation Brand chairman Andrew House in favor of going first this time around. Or maybe they just plain changed their minds!

But, either first or second with Microsoft, one thing's for sure - Nintendo isn't selling Wii U's as aggressively as they were the Wii at this point in that system's lifespan. SO - both of the other next gen consoles have a shot at a bigger portion of consumer real estate.

OR, both similarly might meet tepid receptions depending on what they offer and how compelling their launch lineups are.

WHO KNOWS! It's all speculation at this point but whatever happens I'll be watching on the 20th to see what's what!

[Bojay1997]

Not if they are planning on releasing this November. Their hardware would have had to have been finalized a couple of months ago to launch this year.

Not necessarily. If you're talking about overall architecture and macro design decisions, you're correct. However, they can still adjust total memory and type, as well as the processor and cores with six months lead time. They are still nine months out. Both Sony and Microsoft look to be using off-the-shelf PC components this time around, so it really isn't out of the question to keep making changes as they already have their manufacturing windows locked in and it doesn't matter to Foxconn what they are slapping into the case.

[The 1 2 P]

Or B) Playstation Move 2!!!! Twice da Ballz Edition. Ya! Ya! Ya! Ya!

I fully expect the Move 2 to be fully integrated into PS4. Well not really but I have a feeling they aren't just going to leave that concept behind.

I also don't think Sony has any other gaming tricks up their sleeves outside of maybe a few price cuts. So this seems like a give-me that they will be announcing the PS4. And if that turns out to be true I will be glad to find out about it sooner rather than later.

[IHatedSega]

I hope it has a better browser, or no browser at all.

[WCP]

Not necessarily. If you're talking about overall architecture and macro design decisions, you're correct. However, they can still adjust total memory and type, as well as the processor and cores with six months lead time. They are still nine months out. Both Sony and Microsoft look to be using off-the-shelf PC components this time around, so it really isn't out of the question to keep making changes as they already have their manufacturing windows locked in and it doesn't matter to Foxconn what they are slapping into the case.

I think things have to be finalized much, much earlier. I think Kaz's statement is just a pure bluff on Sony's part. It was such a silly comment by him. You can't take that seriously. Assuming the PS4 is coming out this November, the final hardware would pretty much be set in stone. Only the memory and little things like number of usb ports and such, could be altered this late in the game. It's the same thing for the next Xbox. Neither company is going to really be able to do much "altering" to the formula at this stage in the game. The hardware is, what it is. They are pretty much stuck like Chuck from a hardware standpoint, unless they are coming out in 2014 or something.

[IHatedSega]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6LbzP-AJRQ

I expect the price to be around this much.

[JSoup]

Neat. I'm more interested in the whole "can't play used games" rumor, as that has more of an influence on if I'm going to bother with the PS4 or not than the price (not that the price isn't a factor).

[Bojay1997]

I think things have to be finalized much, much earlier. I think Kaz's statement is just a pure bluff on Sony's part. It was such a silly comment by him. You can't take that seriously. Assuming the PS4 is coming out this November, the final hardware would pretty much be set in stone. Only the memory and little things like number of usb ports and such, could be altered this late in the game. It's the same thing for the next Xbox. Neither company is going to really be able to do much "altering" to the formula at this stage in the game. The hardware is, what it is. They are pretty much stuck like Chuck from a hardware standpoint, unless they are coming out in 2014 or something.

Disagree. Manufacturing has not begun on either system at this point and even on the 360, the processor and graphics chip weren't finalized until late in 2004 for a November 2005 launch. Component manufacturing didn't ramp up until late Spring of 2005. Frankly, design technology and the rapidity of building supply chains has only gotten more efficient in the seven years since, led by companies like Apple and Samsung in their development of Chinese manufacturing capabilities which all companies now have ready access to. Microsoft and Sony can both make changes to processor and memory capability at this point. Whether they will or not is a different question.

[WCP]

Disagree. Manufacturing has not begun on either system at this point and even on the 360, the processor and graphics chip weren't finalized until late in 2004 for a November 2005 launch. Component manufacturing didn't ramp up until late Spring of 2005. Frankly, design technology and the rapidity of building supply chains has only gotten more efficient in the seven years since, led by companies like Apple and Samsung in their development of Chinese manufacturing capabilities which all companies now have ready access to. Microsoft and Sony can both make changes to processor and memory capability at this point. Whether they will or not is a different question.

They have to set things in stone pretty early so the fabs can see if they are getting satisfactory yields. I'm guessing they are probably testing what kind of yields they're getting right now.

[Guyra]

Neat. I'm more interested in the whole "can't play used games" rumor, as that has more of an influence on if I'm going to bother with the PS4 or not than the price (not that the price isn't a factor).

This is highly unlikely, because that would cause an enormous drop in hardware sales. Being the only one of the three big consoles that doesn't let you play used games would be devastating to their hardware sales, and that means games sales would be equally affected. So I really don't see this happening; It's just one of those "news items" that spreads like wildfire because it makes people nervous or angry, even though patents are registered all the time without actually being used(and sometimes even to stop others from using it).

As for what the announcement will be, considering how much they're trying to build anticipation here, I would actually bet it's the PS4. What other Playstation product would they be so "secretive, but you can probably guess what it is" about? Also, the official Playstation Twitter tweeted "See the future: ," and then the link to this site, so ... yeah, it's going to be the PS4.

[Bojay1997]

They have to set things in stone pretty early so the fabs can see if they are getting satisfactory yields. I'm guessing they are probably testing what kind of yields they're getting right now.

If the specs previously leaked for both are to be believed, these are based on pretty standard AMD designs with some GPU customization. As such, there is not going to be much concern about yields. Still, it really depends on the final launch window. Some rumors are pegging the next Xbox at September which would be too late to significantly modify at this point.

[Bojay1997]

This is highly unlikely, because that would cause an enormous drop in hardware sales. Being the only one of the three big consoles that doesn't let you play used games would be devastating to their hardware sales, and that means games sales would be equally affected. So I really don't see this happening; It's just one of those "news items" that spreads like wildfire because it makes people nervous or angry, even though patents are registered all the time without actually being used(and sometimes even to stop others from using it).

As for what the announcement will be, considering how much they're trying to build anticipation here, I would actually bet it's the PS4. What other Playstation product would they be so "secretive, but you can probably guess what it is" about? Also, the official Playstation Twitter tweeted "See the future: ," and then the link to this site, so ... yeah, it's going to be the PS4.

Or they licensed the Oculus Rift headset and you can literally "see" the future.

[IHatedSega]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-3GMHIgR-U\

This is pretty much as close as you can come without saying flat out its going to be released this year.

[The 1 2 P]

Well we only have 19 days to go officially but you just know that someone will most likely leak this info before then. I also don't think we will learn much about it outside of the name and a few specs. They will save the price, launch date, online strategy and other stuff for later dates. But they will probably leave us with something significant to wet our appetites.

[Kitsune Sniper]

It'll be a PS3 with FULL PS2 BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY! And support for Minidiscs, UMDs, cassette tapes and 8-track tapess!

(Note: Vinyl adapter costs $100.)

[Robocop2]

PS3 mini

[Gameguy]

It'll be a PS3 with FULL PS2 BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY! And support for Minidiscs, UMDs, cassette tapes and 8-track tapess!

(Note: Vinyl adapter costs $100.)
What? No compatibility with Beta? No built in grill? What good is it then?

[WCP]

Or they licensed the Oculus Rift headset and you can literally "see" the future.


You know what.... I know it's a long shot, but....

[duffmanth]

I would imagine it's gonna be a PS4 announcement, as I can't think of anything else it could be? I hope Sony has learned their lessons from the PS3 launch though!? They can't release the PS4 at anymore than $399 or it's gonna be the PS3 launch all over again.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I would imagine it's gonna be a PS4 announcement, as I can't think of anything else it could be? I hope Sony has learned their lessons from the PS3 launch though!? They can't release the PS4 at anymore than $399 or it's gonna be the PS3 launch all over again.

I'm pretty sure that they're not going to announce a price point during this "reveal".

It's going to be close to a year until we see the thing at retail. While I'm sure that they have a bottom line in mind, a lot can change between now and then.

I DO expect that it's going to be a more reasonable launch price than the original PS3.

[Cornelius]

I DO expect that it's going to be a more reasonable launch price than the original PS3.

I agree. Given the state of Blu-Ray then vs. now it just wouldn't make sense at all for it to be so high.

[retroguy]

Nintendo isn't selling Wii U's as aggressively as they were the Wii at this point in that system's lifespan. SO - both of the other next gen consoles have a shot at a bigger portion of consumer real estate.

Eh, I wouldn't worry about Nintendo. Between the phenomenal success of the DS and Wii and the revitalized sales of the 3DS, I'm sure they've got more than enough socked away to not be bothered if the WiiU doesn't do as well. As they already proved with the N64 and Gamecube, brand recognition goes a long way. Most non-gamers have at least heard of Mario, Zelda and Pokemon, but how many have heard of Devil May Cry, God Of War or Resistance? I would say that Nintendo is the only one of the three to be in the enviable position of being able to outlast the other two simply by waiting for them to self destruct. It'll be interesting to see how things go in the next couple of years.

[Gamevet]

If the specs previously leaked for both are to be believed, these are based on pretty standard AMD designs with some GPU customization. As such, there is not going to be much concern about yields. Still, it really depends on the final launch window. Some rumors are pegging the next Xbox at September which would be too late to significantly modify at this point.

They are 8 core AMD APU chips. The Jaguar APU is slated for a release during 2nd half of 2013. These aren't Trinity APUs.

[IHatedSega]

A friend of mine thinks GTA V will be a launch title. I hope it is. And Watch Dogs and the Elan Paige game. If not theyre compatible with PS4 without an update needing to be downloaded.

[Griking]

This is highly unlikely, because that would cause an enormous drop in hardware sales..

I wonder if developers would agree to make special deals with Sony if the console didn't play used games. For instance, agreeing to pay a higher royalty per game sold or giving Sony more exclusives

[IHatedSega]

I wonder if developers would agree to make special deals with Sony if the console didn't play used games. For instance, agreeing to pay a higher royalty per game sold or giving Sony more exclusives
If they announce on the 20th that the PS4 wont play used games, then Microsoft will be able to say they wont do that. Itll make buzz for the 720 even bigger and kill off a lot of momentum the PS4 would have. Developers would instantly stop working on PS4 ports and make the 720 have more exclusives. Itd be like the Saturn not getting ports of PS1 games that were in the works because of one huge mistake the parent company made.

[Griking]

Developers would instantly stop working on PS4 ports and make the 720 have more exclusives. Itd be like the Saturn not getting ports of PS1 games that were in the works because of one huge mistake the parent company made.

My point is that developers may be willing to accept less sales for the short term if they knew that in the long run they'd be helping to kill off off the used game market. Bailing in the PS4 to make games for the 720 just because the 720 plays used games would just be shooting themselves in their own foot.

And besides, we really don't know how many less sales they'd see. Sure, less consoles sold would usually mean less games sold but if they knew that every game sold was sold new then that's a big plus.

[retroguy]

This is purely hypothetical, but how's this for a scenario: The PS4 and Xbox 720 both turn out to be unable to play used games. Seeing this, many, MANY parents thinking about what to get for their kids, as well as regular gamers who aren't made of money, flock to the WiiU as the only sensible option left. Microsoft and Sony leave the gaming business due to dismal sales and massive losses. Nintendo carries on business as usual, but with a much higher user base. Gamers ultimately are better off. For all the snarky comments directed towards Nintendo by people who aren't fans of theirs, one could make a valid argument that they're the only ones who know what they're doing.

[Gamevet]

This is purely hypothetical, but how's this for a scenario: The PS4 and Xbox 720 both turn out to be unable to play used games. Seeing this, many, MANY parents thinking about what to get for their kids, as well as regular gamers who aren't made of money, flock to the WiiU as the only sensible option left. Microsoft and Sony leave the gaming business due to dismal sales and massive losses. Nintendo carries on business as usual, but with a much higher user base. Gamers ultimately are better off. For all the snarky comments directed towards Nintendo by people who aren't fans of theirs, one could make a valid argument that they're the only ones who know what they're doing.

Even if they did that, 70% of the people that will buy a PS4 or 720 won't have a clue that they can't buy or sell used games. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony didn't implement the feature until years after the console had been released.

[IHatedSega]

This is purely hypothetical, but how's this for a scenario: The PS4 and Xbox 720 both turn out to be unable to play used games. Seeing this, many, MANY parents thinking about what to get for their kids, as well as regular gamers who aren't made of money, flock to the WiiU as the only sensible option left. Microsoft and Sony leave the gaming business due to dismal sales and massive losses. Nintendo carries on business as usual, but with a much higher user base. Gamers ultimately are better off. For all the snarky comments directed towards Nintendo by people who aren't fans of theirs, one could make a valid argument that they're the only ones who know what they're doing.

Unless you like JRPG's, then youre SOL.

[Griking]

This is purely hypothetical, but how's this for a scenario: The PS4 and Xbox 720 both turn out to be unable to play used games. Seeing this, many, MANY parents thinking about what to get for their kids, as well as regular gamers who aren't made of money, flock to the WiiU as the only sensible option left. Microsoft and Sony leave the gaming business due to dismal sales and massive losses. Nintendo carries on business as usual, but with a much higher user base. Gamers ultimately are better off. For all the snarky comments directed towards Nintendo by people who aren't fans of theirs, one could make a valid argument that they're the only ones who know what they're doing.


if both the Xbox 720 and PS4 didn't play used games and the Wii did I have a feeling that you'd see more developers take their chances and abandon the Wii over abandoning the 720 and PS4. Its not as if the Wii had great 3rd party backing in the first place other than a lot of shovel-ware.

[Bojay1997]

Even if they did that, 70% of the people that will buy a PS4 or 720 won't have a clue that they can't buy or sell used games. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony didn't implement the feature until years after the console had been released.

I think this is the most likely scenario. All they would have to do is implement a mandatory cloud-based DRM for games similar to what happens with PC games from Ubisoft and EA today.

[Lucifersam1]

That would be something! Hehe. Well, MSFT probably wouldn't be phased terribly, would try to stick it out, and turn it around. Sony, on the other hand, is screwed if the PS4 flops. Just look at their earning over the past few years (http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/SNE/tab/5). They just aren't making ANY money.

The cash on hand has to dry up eventually. Especially if they keep paying a dividend to shareholders! I'd bet that if the PS4 does flop we see Sony turn into Sega (only making software).

I am going to get a PS4 this gen and leave the Wii-U and next Xbox alone (own all three current gen right now).



This is purely hypothetical, but how's this for a scenario: The PS4 and Xbox 720 both turn out to be unable to play used games. Seeing this, many, MANY parents thinking about what to get for their kids, as well as regular gamers who aren't made of money, flock to the WiiU as the only sensible option left. Microsoft and Sony leave the gaming business due to dismal sales and massive losses. Nintendo carries on business as usual, but with a much higher user base. Gamers ultimately are better off. For all the snarky comments directed towards Nintendo by people who aren't fans of theirs, one could make a valid argument that they're the only ones who know what they're doing.

[JSoup]

This is purely hypothetical, but how's this for a scenario: The PS4 and Xbox 720 both turn out to be unable to play used games. Seeing this, many, MANY parents thinking about what to get for their kids, as well as regular gamers who aren't made of money, flock to the WiiU as the only sensible option left. Microsoft and Sony leave the gaming business due to dismal sales and massive losses. Nintendo carries on business as usual, but with a much higher user base. Gamers ultimately are better off. For all the snarky comments directed towards Nintendo by people who aren't fans of theirs, one could make a valid argument that they're the only ones who know what they're doing.

Then, Ouya and Steam Box step into the ring and everyone remembers why they didn't go with the WiiU from the start.

[Press_Start]

if both the Xbox 720 and PS4 didn't play used games and the Wii did I have a feeling that you'd see more developers take their chances and abandon the Wii over abandoning the 720 and PS4. Its not as if the Wii had great 3rd party backing in the first place other than a lot of shovel-ware.

HA! Then let them! Any dev or company signing on to this anti-used game idea is signaling their death knell. Let me ask a question, this is what's going to be the frontier of videogames? Screwing gamers seven ways to Sunday just for another nickel and dime they haven't gotten from DLC or online passes yet? If this is what they are contributing toward the future of the gaming and can't understand gamers are able to afford their new $60 games by selling off their old ones from an economic standpoint, then they deserve to fail.

[Griking]

HA! Then let them! Any dev or company signing on to this anti-used game idea is signaling their death knell.

I used to work in a retail store. From time to time there would be pissed off customers who would swear to never shop at our store again. They always came back. The problem is that, and I hate to say it, people are just too weak. People will threaten to never purchase another console but most of them will do so anyway because when it comes down to it, they want to play their games. Sure there will be a bunch who really give up gaming and not purchase another console over this but those are likely going to be the people who mostly purchased used games in the first place; i.e. the people that developers will miss the least.

[kedawa]

I'm glad I'm not one of those people.
I won't be giving up gaming or buying any new consoles.

[Press_Start]

I used to work in a retail store. From time to time there would be pissed off customers who would swear to never shop at our store again. They always came back. The problem is that, and I hate to say it, people are just too weak. People will threaten to never purchase another console but most of them will do so anyway because when it comes down to it, they want to play their games. Sure there will be a bunch who really give up gaming and not purchase another console over this but those are likely going to be the people who mostly purchased used games in the first place; i.e. the people that developers will miss the least.

LOL! OK, hypothetical question.....how are those "weak people" gonna give in to their gaming vices when they got no money to buy said games in the first place? Seriously, do you expect every, I mean, EVERY consumer to keep buying new $60 games while forcing them to hang onto their old games like pack rats hording ketchup packets? At least used games you sell can pay for new ones but what's Average Joe Schmoe on a fixed budget going to do in he or she can't recoup a little money? There's the fallacy of your point. Banning used games punishes "good gamers" as well the "bad gamers". You're turning an open, inclusive, semi-expensive hobby into a shrinking self-exclusive country club for die-hards and rich kids. It's ain't a moral dilemma, it's a money problem.

[IHatedSega]

I just saw a commercial for Dead Space 3 and the announcer at the end said the 360 is now starting at $100. I guess its the 4gb version, but still thats a really good retaliation on Microsofts part. Makes me want to get it since 90% of the PS3 games I want are on it, and a few insane bullet hell shooters are exclusives.

[Bojay1997]

I just saw a commercial for Dead Space 3 and the announcer at the end said the 360 is now starting at $100. I guess its the 4gb version, but still thats a really good retaliation on Microsofts part. Makes me want to get it since 90% of the PS3 games I want are on it, and a few insane bullet hell shooters are exclusives.

That's kind of misleading. It's $99 with a two year subscription plan to XBL at $14.99 per month, so it really costs you $460 over two years. The 4 gig console is still $200 MSRP.

[Bojay1997]

LOL! OK, hypothetical question.....how are those "weak people" gonna give in to their gaming vices when they got no money to buy said games in the first place? Seriously, do you expect every, I mean, EVERY consumer to keep buying new $60 games while forcing them to hang onto their old games like pack rats hording ketchup packets? At least used games you sell can pay for new ones but what's Average Joe Schmoe on a fixed budget going to do in he or she can't recoup a little money? There's the fallacy of your point. Banning used games punishes "good gamers" as well the "bad gamers". You're turning an open, inclusive, semi-expensive hobby into a shrinking self-exclusive country club for die-hards and rich kids. It's ain't a moral dilemma, it's a money problem.

When publishers and developers make more money on each game sale, they can then adjust MSRP to a more reasonable rate. People trading games in to Gamestop only get maybe $20-$30 back for a new game, so it's not like they are completely subsidizing their new purchases using credit. In fact, a large percentage of GS buyers never buy new at all, so that part of the ecosystem may be impacted, but it's not a profitable one for publishers and developers anyway. Gamestop would clearly suffer as it is the majority of their revenue. I think you underestimate how many non-rich people already buy media products that they can't or don't trade in on a regular basis now.

[IHatedSega]

That's kind of misleading. It's $99 with a two year subscription plan to XBL at $14.99 per month, so it really costs you $460 over two years. The 4 gig console is still $200 MSRP.

wow thats total fucking bull shit if you cant get the console without the plan.

[Griking]

LOL! OK, hypothetical question.....how are those "weak people" gonna give in to their gaming vices when they got no money to buy said games in the first place? Seriously, do you expect every, I mean, EVERY consumer to keep buying new $60 games while forcing them to hang onto their old games like pack rats hording ketchup packets? At least used games you sell can pay for new ones but what's Average Joe Schmoe on a fixed budget going to do in he or she can't recoup a little money? There's the fallacy of your point. Banning used games punishes "good gamers" as well the "bad gamers". You're turning an open, inclusive, semi-expensive hobby into a shrinking self-exclusive country club for die-hards and rich kids. It's ain't a moral dilemma, it's a money problem.

I can't say that I support what Microsoft and Sony are doing but I understand WHY they're doing it.

If this were done correctly both Microsoft and Sony would have a press conference announcing that their new consoles would not be able to play used games but that prices for the games would be cut in half. Of course this won't happen though.

So what will probably happen is that sales of consoles and games will decrease but overall profits won't change all that much because they'll still be selling more new games then they ever did before.

The wildcard in all of this will be companies like Steam. Yeah, you still can't purchase or sell used games with it but the prices for their games will continue to attract a lot of new users including a lot of old console only people who will be attracted to the Steam Box

All this being said, I'd still be very surprised if either Microsoft or Sony decides to follow through with the plan to block used games this generation.

[8-bitNesMan]

wow thats total fucking bull shit if you cant get the console without the plan.

You totally can! You just have to pay $200 bucks up front ;)

[jb143]

LOL! OK, hypothetical question.....how are those "weak people" gonna give in to their gaming vices when they got no money to buy said games in the first place? Seriously, do you expect every, I mean, EVERY consumer to keep buying new $60 games while forcing them to hang onto their old games like pack rats hording ketchup packets? At least used games you sell can pay for new ones but what's Average Joe Schmoe on a fixed budget going to do in he or she can't recoup a little money? There's the fallacy of your point. Banning used games punishes "good gamers" as well the "bad gamers". You're turning an open, inclusive, semi-expensive hobby into a shrinking self-exclusive country club for die-hards and rich kids. It's ain't a moral dilemma, it's a money problem.

That's easy. Sony themselves could initiate a buy back program where they buy your game for next to nothing, re-activate it, and sell it again(refurbished) for slightly cheaper than new prices are. Getting something for your game is better than nothing(the only other alternative in this scenario) and Sony rids themselves of Game Stop in the process...hypothetically speaking of course.

[retroguy]

Sony rids themselves of Game Stop in the process...hypothetically speaking of course.

Don't you just love companies being all greedy? Whether you love them or loathe them, ya gotta admit Gamestop provides a valuable service by making games affordable for the folks who can't shell out the cash to buy new and intentionally trying to end that would make a lot of lower-income gamers very angry.

[IHatedSega]

You totally can! You just have to pay $200 bucks up front ;)

:S Ive just been waiting this generation to actually buy a console when its $100. So now after I read that post all my enthusiasm went out the window.....for now at least. I was actually considering just buying that instead of going to Ushicon this weekend. Glad I read it before I went to a store.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

:S Ive just been waiting this generation to actually buy a console when its $100. So now after I read that post all my enthusiasm went out the window.....for now at least. I was actually considering just buying that instead of going to Ushicon this weekend. Glad I read it before I went to a store.

$100 is traditionally the "retirement" price of modern consoles from the 32 bit era onwards.

It'll happen with 360 and PS3 eventually, but not at least until the next gen consoles from those companies launch.

[JSoup]

:S Ive just been waiting this generation to actually buy a console when its $100. So now after I read that post all my enthusiasm went out the window.....for now at least. I was actually considering just buying that instead of going to Ushicon this weekend. Glad I read it before I went to a store.

Try buying cregslist or whatever its called. Thats where I got my PS3.

Posted from Kindle.

[kedawa]

Don't you just love companies being all greedy? Whether you love them or loathe them, ya gotta admit Gamestop provides a valuable service by making games affordable for the folks who can't shell out the cash to buy new and intentionally trying to end that would make a lot of lower-income gamers very angry.

The difference between $55 snd $60 isn't really that big.

[retroguy]

The difference between $55 snd $60 isn't really that big.

Well, you're right about that, but I was referring more to the games that had been out awhile where the difference is bigger. I don't know about anyone else, but when the Gamecube was still current, if there was a game that I couldn't afford to pay full price for, I would wait for the price to drop down to something I could afford, which it always does eventually. It's just a matter of being patient.

[Gameguy]

That's easy. Sony themselves could initiate a buy back program where they buy your game for next to nothing, re-activate it, and sell it again(refurbished) for slightly cheaper than new prices are. Getting something for your game is better than nothing(the only other alternative in this scenario) and Sony rids themselves of Game Stop in the process...hypothetically speaking of course.
Or an easier solution would be if they offer a rewards coupon in each game, if you collect five coupons you can mail them in for a free game and some exclusive bonus item. One would assume that you wouldn't find these coupons in used copies as people would keep them to redeem, so it could convince people to buy new copies over used ones. I seem to remember seeing coupons for free games back in the 90's so it's not like it's never been done before.

If companies still can't make enough profit on games anymore, they need to reduce the wages of the programmers. The only reason their wages got so high was because companies were making so much profit on the games that they wanted their fair share, if companies can't make a profit anymore then there's no more money to be shared with them, meaning lower wages.

[Gamevet]

:S Ive just been waiting this generation to actually buy a console when its $100. So now after I read that post all my enthusiasm went out the window.....for now at least. I was actually considering just buying that instead of going to Ushicon this weekend. Glad I read it before I went to a store.

I picked up a practically brand new 360 arcade (back in 2009) for $99 from Entertainmart. It had the box and manuals included. I added a $20 HDD to complete the package. This was my secondary 360 though, that I keep in my man cave when I don't have access to the big television in the livingroom.


http://www.entertainmart.com/



I can't say that I support what Microsoft and Sony are doing but I understand WHY they're doing it.

If this were done correctly both Microsoft and Sony would have a press conference announcing that their new consoles would not be able to play used games but that prices for the games would be cut in half. Of course this won't happen though.

So what will probably happen is that sales of consoles and games will decrease but overall profits won't change all that much because they'll still be selling more new games then they ever did before.

The wildcard in all of this will be companies like Steam. Yeah, you still can't purchase or sell used games with it but the prices for their games will continue to attract a lot of new users including a lot of old console only people who will be attracted to the Steam Box

All this being said, I'd still be very surprised if either Microsoft or Sony decides to follow through with the plan to block used games this generation.

Used game sales affect 3rd party publishers, more than the console makers. Sony and MS get a royalty fee for every title sold, no matter what the publisher is selling it for. If they are looking for this to be an incentive to publish titles on their consoles, it could end up being no better than keeping things the way they are.

[kedawa]

Well, you're right about that, but I was referring more to the games that had been out awhile where the difference is bigger. I don't know about anyone else, but when the Gamecube was still current, if there was a game that I couldn't afford to pay full price for, I would wait for the price to drop down to something I could afford, which it always does eventually. It's just a matter of being patient.

I hold out for cheap prices, too.
Steam is awesome for that.

[kedawa]

If companies still can't make enough profit on games anymore, they need to reduce the wages of the programmers. The only reason their wages got so high was because companies were making so much profit on the games that they wanted their fair share, if companies can't make a profit anymore then there's no more money to be shared with them, meaning lower wages.

Programmers make jack shit. The ballooning budgets come from the increasing size of dev teams, licensed middelware, extraneous shit like cutscenes and voice acting, and marketing.

[IHatedSega]

$100 is traditionally the "retirement" price of modern consoles from the 32 bit era onwards.

It'll happen with 360 and PS3 eventually, but not at least until the next gen consoles from those companies launch.

Yeah, thats why I was so excited when I saw the commercial. 360 versions of games I want are less than PS3, so this would have been a good purchase for now. The XBL cost though is just gauging people for trying to get a deal.

[Leo_A]

So what will probably happen is that sales of consoles and games will decrease but overall profits won't change all that much because they'll still be selling more new games then they ever did before.

A good chunk of the value for traded in videogames surely must be put towards purchasing new games. So I don't think it's a given that new game sales will not only not decrease, but will instead grow. Such a decision isn't going to keep every single new purchase that would've otherwise been made in year's past while adding purchases from individual's that would've bought a used copy in year's past.

And a good number of people aren't buying games exclusively used or new but rather a combination of the two. Taking away the ability to buy used games will eliminate some of these customer's at least for a time until prices drop and some very well might stay away permanently.

[Gameguy]

Programmers make jack shit. The ballooning budgets come from the increasing size of dev teams, licensed middelware, extraneous shit like cutscenes and voice acting, and marketing.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_programmer);


Results of a 2010 survey indicate that the average salary for a game programmer is USD$95,300 annually. The least experienced programmers (with less than 3 years experience) generally earn about $74,600, while developers with over six years experience on average earn $125,700.

Generally, lead programmers are the most well compensated, though some 3D graphics programmers may challenge or surpass their salaries. According to the same survey above, lead programmers on average earn $127,900 annually.
Maybe that's out of date but it's still pretty high. You're right about why the costs in production have shot up, it takes more people to make modern games compared to older games. What can they really do now to reduce costs? Are they going to shrink the size of dev teams? Get rid of voice acting? Market them less? I'm pretty sure the easiest way to reduce costs are to cut salaries, drop them to around $30K and budgets will be cut in half.

I do know that their current wages are basically on par with other programming jobs in the industry and that game programmers generally do more work than other programmers in other fields, but there isn't really enough money in video games to support it. They really should be programming other things instead of games as those pay better if they really care about making money.

[kedawa]

Successful games make plenty of money. If anything, the people that actually make those games should be earning more. The problem is that there are just too many commercial failures, and too many projects that never even make it to market. It's a matter of business strategy more than anything.

[zakthedodo]

I hope it comes out soon so the PS3 will price drop.
I'm always 1 generation behind.

[retroguy]

You and me both, brother. That's why I'm surprised to find myself actually wanting to get a WiiU ASAP. Usually I'm content to wait, but not this time.

[duffmanth]

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/02/07/japanese-newspaper-claims-playstation-4-will-cost-about-400

I've been saying forever that this is the most Sony should launch the PS4 at or it's gonna be the PS3 launch all over again.

[IHatedSega]

Thats how much I expected it to be. Im just wondering how many gigs itll have.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Merged with existing PS4 speculation thread.

[Rob2600]

an easier solution would be if they offer a rewards coupon in each game, if you collect five coupons you can mail them in for a free game and some exclusive bonus item. One would assume that you wouldn't find these coupons in used copies as people would keep them to redeem, so it could convince people to buy new copies over used ones.

That's actually a great idea.

[Griking]

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_programmer);


Maybe that's out of date but it's still pretty high. You're right about why the costs in production have shot up, it takes more people to make modern games compared to older games. What can they really do now to reduce costs? Are they going to shrink the size of dev teams? Get rid of voice acting? Market them less? I'm pretty sure the easiest way to reduce costs are to cut salaries, drop them to around $30K and budgets will be cut in half.

I do know that their current wages are basically on par with other programming jobs in the industry and that game programmers generally do more work than other programmers in other fields, but there isn't really enough money in video games to support it. They really should be programming other things instead of games as those pay better if they really care about making money.

I have no problem with programmers making a good wage. They're the ones generally putting in all the time and work.

Do programmers generally get a cut of overall sales? If so then perhaps a lower salary but with a cut at the end would be fine. But even then you have developers who force programmers to rush out work.