Edge reports durango to block used games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IHatedSega]

http://kotaku.com/5982097/report-the-next-xbox-will-require-an-internet-connection-block-used-games?popular=true


A new Edge report suggests that Microsoft's next Xbox gaming console, code-named Durango, will require an Internet connection to use. It also won't be able to play used games, Edge says.

We have not been able to confirm the veracity of this new report, which claims that Durango discs will ship with one-time-use activation codes that render them irrelevant to anyone but the person who first uses them.

Edge also says that the next Xbox will use Blu-ray discs, ship with a new version of Kinect, and hold an AMD eight-core CPU that runs at 1.6GHz and 8 gigabytes of DDR3 RAM.

Early last year, Kotaku reported that the next Xbox will use Blu-ray discs, ship with Kinect 2.0, and contain some sort of anti-used game protection.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/


Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function, ruling out a second-hand game market for the platform. A new iteration of Xbox Live will be an integral part of Microsoft’s next console, while improved Kinect hardware will also ship alongside the unit.

Sources with first-hand experience of Microsoft’s next generation console have told us that although the next Xbox will be absolutely committed to online functionality, games will still be made available to purchase in physical form. Next Xbox games will be manufactured on 50GB-capacity Blu-ray discs, Microsoft having conceded defeat to Sony following its ill-fated backing of the HD-DVD format. It is believed that games purchased on disc will ship with activation codes, and will have no value beyond the initial user.

Our source has also confirmed that the next Xbox’s recently rumoured specs are entirely accurate. That means an AMD eight-core x64 1.6GHz CPU, a D3D11.x 800MHz graphics solution and 8GB of DDR3 RAM. As of now, the console’s hard drive capacity is said to be undecided, but Microsoft’s extended commitment to online delivery suggests that it will be the largest unit it has put inside a console to date.

Though the architectures of the next-gen Xbox and PlayStation both resemble that of PCs, several development sources have told us that Sony’s solution is preferable when it comes to leveraging power. Studios working with the next-gen Xbox are currently being forced to work with only approved development libraries, while Sony is encouraging coders to get closer to the metal of its box. Furthermore, the operating system overhead of Microsoft’s next console is more oppressive than Sony’s equivalent, giving the PlayStation-badged unit another advantage.

Unlike Nintendo, Microsoft is continuing to invest heavily in motion-control interfaces, and a new, more reliably responsive Kinect will also ship alongside the next Xbox. Sony’s next-generation console camera system is said to have a similar set of features, and is expected to be discussed at the company’s PlayStation event on February 20.

[The Adventurer]

As someone who has been using Steam for nearly 10 years to buy new games, nor makes a habit of trading games in, I don't really see a particular problem with this. What all this anti-used game trend seems to be geared to is pushing players to buying digital downloads over physical media. Because undoubtedly the NEXT general will be discless. So you better get used to it.

[Kitsune Sniper]

As someone who has been using Steam for nearly 10 years to buy new games, nor makes a habit of trading games in, I don't really see a particular problem with this. What all this anti-used game trend seems to be geared to is pushing players to buying digital downloads over physical media. Because undoubtedly the NEXT general will be discless. So you better get used to it.

And then they can price gouge us by selling us system-locked hard drives instead of letting us use our own (which the PS3 does... even if it has all that stupid DRM on it.) AND price gouge us on game downloads too since there won't be any competition or chances for clearance sales.

Congratulations, I am now a PC gamer for life. You'll take away my used games, but you'll never take away my DRM Free game purchases and cracks.

[retroguy]

Not trying to troll, but I told you so. WiiU FTW!

[IHatedSega]

Not trying to troll, but I told you so. WiiU FTW!

Ive been expecting this whole time the Wii U would be the next console Id buy.

Im against cloud gaming as the future. This antisecond hand gaming is nothing but greed, stupid blind greed. You can say "Well, the people who bought our games used didnt matter anyway", but your games would be more popular if MORE PEOPLE PLAYED THEM. People buy used because they simply cant afford $60 for one game. For you to say "either buy or game at the price we want, or dont play our game at all." Is so stupid and people will simply choose another product over yours.

This is definitely going to lead to gaming being less popular if Sony also implements its patents to also stop second hand games being played on the PS4.

[Bojay1997]

Not trying to troll, but I told you so. WiiU FTW!

I have a WiiU and I'll be honest and say I haven't played it since Christmas. The game selection is poor and third party support is virtually non-existent. I'm hopeful that better games will come out in the future, but for now I'm not sure how anyone could be a strong advocate for the platform.

[IHatedSega]

Third Parties are going to have to go to the Wii U if they want their games to be sold. This thing single handedly kills the Durango. Besides Bayonetta 2 is coming out soon. :D

[Bojay1997]

Ive been expecting this whole time the Wii U would be the next console Id buy.

Im against cloud gaming as the future. This antisecond hand gaming is nothing but greed, stupid blind greed. You can say "Well, the people who bought our games used didnt matter anyway", but your games would be more popular if MORE PEOPLE PLAYED THEM. People buy used because they simply cant afford $60 for one game. For you to say "either buy or game at the price we want, or dont play our game at all." Is so stupid and people will simply choose another product over yours.

This is definitely going to lead to gaming being less popular if Sony also implements its patents to also stop second hand games being played on the PS4.

As noted in all of the other threads about these rumors, people are already paying $55 or so for used games from Gamestop, so asking people to pay the full $60 is not really that much of a stretch. That doesn't even include all the sales and discounts that retailers apply on a regular basis which results in many games selling well below $60. Publishers can also adjust MSRPs and respond quickly to sales numbers and set prices accordingly, especially if they are getting 100% of revenue instead of losing a significant portion to use sales. The reality is that unless something changes fundamentally in the business model, console gaming is not something that can survive long-term, especially in the face of more and more powerful mobile and set-top devices with massive libraries of cheap games.

[Bojay1997]

Third Parties are going to have to go to the Wii U if they want their games to be sold. This thing single handedly kills the Durango. Besides Bayonetta 2 is coming out soon. :D

Not gonna happen. If sales collapse on the next Xbox and Playstation, publishers will simply move to other platforms like mobile, iOS and PC where there are massive user bases. Bayonetta was a great game, but it won't move hardware in the United States.

[retroguy]

I have a WiiU and I'll be honest and say I haven't played it since Christmas. The game selection is poor and third party support is virtually non-existent. I'm hopeful that better games will come out in the future, but for now I'm not sure how anyone could be a strong advocate for the platform.

Well, even though I'm a huge Nintendo fan, I was skeptical of it at first. But when I tried Nintendo Land at my sister's house and saw how the gamepad could be used for entirely fresh takes on old gameplay concepts, as well as having the potential for brand new concepts that haven't been thought of yet, I was seriously impressed. If the purpose of that game was to sell people on the system, it worked. And seeing videos of ZombiU and New Super Mario Bros U makes me want one even more. I'm hoping I'll be able to save up and get one for my birthday, but time will tell.

[IHatedSega]

Not gonna happen. If sales collapse on the next Xbox and Playstation, publishers will simply move to other platforms like mobile, iOS and PC where there are massive user bases. Bayonetta was a great game, but it won't move hardware in the United States.

So, a console game company will stop making console games rather than try making them on a different console? Im sorry, but I dont see how mobile gaming will take over the console gaming market. Its different.

I just cant see Street Fighter 5 or Final Fantasy 15 or GTA 6 being released for an Iphone.

[wingzrow]

Wow, anyone who buys this is LITERALLY the cancer killing video games if these rumors are true. I only own an XBOX 360 for the better versions of Bayonetta & Ashura's Wrath, and I never even go online with the thing. I don't even like the 360, and buying their next system looks like it would be the biggest case of buyer's remorse of all time for me if I wasn't informed about this sort of thing beforehand.


I have a WiiU and I'll be honest and say I haven't played it since Christmas. The game selection is poor and third party support is virtually non-existent. I'm hopeful that better games will come out in the future, but for now I'm not sure how anyone could be a strong advocate for the platform.

You bought your system WAY too early. Just like with the DS & 3DS, the system launch and lineups start slow, but usually build up steam a year or two after the system launches. There's a lot to be excited for, but clearly owning one right now is not the time. This list may not seem like much, but I would wait until E3 to see what the system really has to offer.

UPCOMING WII U EXCLUSIVES

Bayonetta 2
wonderful 101
new xenoblade sequel
Shin Megami tensei x fire emblem
Dragon Quest X
New mario kart
New 3d Mario
Pikmin 3
Monster Hunter
Super Smash Bros sequel
Legend of Zelda Wind Waker HD remake (upscaled port, but whatever)
New Legend of Zelda game
Game and Wario
Rayman Legends
New Yoshi Game

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/175/315/PicardDoubleFacepalm-1.jpg?1316330080

...this shit again.

Have fun kids.

[TonyTheTiger]

If it happens then it happens. We'll see how it plays out. What is it, like the 50th time a rumor like this has circled? At this point I kind of wish it'll just happen so we can see the actual results.

Digital distribution isn't so much a bad thing (in fact, it can be extremely good) as it is highly dependent on just a couple of variables to maintain equilibrium, unlike physical media which has at least a few more elements protecting the institution from total collapse. Steam managed to strike a great balance, successfully managing convenient distribution along with customer satisfaction and should probably be the model for future endeavors.

It's just that digital distribution can suffer in ways physical media can't. No matter how many roms a person downloads, they'll never own the cartridge (barring advancements in 3D printing, at least). There's at least a psychological benefit that comes from real ownership preventing everyone from becoming pirates. You don't want to get to the point where people start to feel that paying for something doesn't net them any gain over outright piracy, which generally doesn't repel people as the idea of physical theft might. If your $60 game gets you exactly the same thing as my free game, well, it's a tough sell once the digital locks in place are inevitably circumvented and the five finger discount is anonymously available at the push of a button.

What's worse is if people have a reason to feel like piracy is the better option for more than just financial reasons. Then there's going to be hell to pay in the long run. Continuing with physical media at the very least maintains the status quo which can prevent the formation of united efforts to undermine the system due to outrage, justified or not. Ex: the PS3 probably wouldn't be nearly as compromised if not for the OtherOS debacle. And at least with physical media there are other forces at play which keep your average PR nightmare from leading to mass thievery. If there's something about the infrastructure that's off-putting in just the right (wrong?) way to cause the pot to boil over, it'll become a free for all. Righteous indignation is one of the most powerful human emotions. Entire governments have fallen to it.

I think that's the real flaw of digital distribution. As good as it can be, it's also extremely volatile. And the mere delivery method is unlikely to increase or decrease consumer activity in any meaningful way. The fantasy publishers seem to have is that it's a panacea to their revenue woes when it's really a game of whack-a-mole. They see a problem and they blame used games so they "cure" that. But it's not going to solve much of anything because tomorrow they'll have the same problem and they'll try a different cure. And so on. To me, digital distribution is no better or worse. It's just different, with its own benefits and flaws.

[JSoup]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. If this anti-used game crap comes to pass, I'll be switching to 100% piracy (up from my current 50%).

[Guyra]

o hai, not buying the next Xbox then. Simple as that. :P

[Collector_Gaming]

So, a console game company will stop making console games rather than try making them on a different console? Im sorry, but I dont see how mobile gaming will take over the console gaming market. Its different.

I just cant see Street Fighter 5 or Final Fantasy 15 or GTA 6 being released for an Iphone.

With hardware extremely rapidly on smart devices catching up to consoles. I'd give it 4 years and i bet it will be right on par with consoles and then screaming ahead.

The whole idea of buying a physical copy of a game and not being able to share it or anything like that is just pointless. If the console requires online capabilities and one time use discs. then might as well make it download only which at that point you are basically gonna feel like you got a dumbed down gaming pc. I might actually skip this generation of consoles. None of it tickles my fancy at all.

[TonyTheTiger]

The whole idea of buying a physical copy of a game and not being able to share it or anything like that is just pointless. If the console requires online capabilities and one time use discs. then might as well make it download only which at that point you are basically gonna feel like you got a dumbed down gaming pc.

Assuming this is all actually true, then it is effectively download only. The existence of the discs would just be a means of conserving HDD space. I'd assume under these conditions every game would be offered digitally for those who'd rather go that route.

[dendawg]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. If this anti-used game crap comes to pass, I'll be switching to 100% piracy (up from my current 50%).

So, essentially the videogame companies are losing a customer they never really had.

[The Adventurer]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. If this anti-used game crap comes to pass, I'll be switching to 100% piracy (up from my current 50%).

Also congrats on being part of the problem.

[JSoup]

So, essentially the videogame companies are losing a customer they never really had.

Kinda, keep in mind that 50% covers all of my gaming habits, so old NES & Gameboy games are covered under it. I buy from Steam and Sony all the time, with the odd game here or there from Microsoft. Pretty much everything Nintendo I've played since about halfway through the GBA's lifespan I've pirated. So, Nintendo isn't really losing a customer, as they already lost me. I'd really like to stick with Sony, as they've been reasonably good to me, from the PS1 and on, but I don't know that I'm ok with this trumped up DRM thing.


Also congrats on being part of the problem.

Thank you. I try to do my part to make sure people who get all hot and bothered over piracy feel relevant.

[Collector_Gaming]

Assuming this is all actually true, then it is effectively download only. The existence of the discs would just be a means of conserving HDD space. I'd assume under these conditions every game would be offered digitally for those who'd rather go that route.

considering Terrabyte drives are dirt cheap these days what you save on the blue ray player you put into the bigger hard drive and be done about it... I still don't see the point.

specially since everything is pushing this whole cloud service thing (which i am still not fond of). It will probably push the stuff you don't pay attention to onto a cloud service to be reused again later when you feel like playing it.

[Kitsune Sniper]

considering Terrabyte drives are dirt cheap these days what you save on the blue ray player you put into the bigger hard drive and be done about it... I still don't see the point.

specially since everything is pushing this whole cloud service thing (which i am still not fond of). It will probably push the stuff you don't pay attention to onto a cloud service to be reused again later when you feel like playing it.

Terabyte drives are cheap, but only if you can buy your own. Microsoft still charges $130 (Edit: MSRP price) for a 320GB drive.

[Greg2600]

I wonder if MS will fire up their old Windows XP licensing servers for this? I mean, you couldn't fool those.

[Press_Start]

So, essentially the videogame companies are losing a customer they never really had.


Also congrats on being part of the problem.

And you sirs, have spoken like corporate mouthpieces w/ your heads up each other's butt.

[Gamevet]

I guess that makes it easier to spend $335 on a GTX 670, over paying that much for the next console.

If this is the way MS and Sony plan to go, I'll just ride out the software available for the PS3 and 360 until they drop support. The PC will be my source for next-gen gaming, since it's already more powerful than what these consoles are going to be.

[The Adventurer]

And you sirs, have spoken like corporate mouthpieces w/ your heads up each other's butt.

No. I believe in supporting artists and creators. As opposed to be an entitled toolbox.

[Griking]

We have not been able to confirm the veracity of this new report, which claims that Durango discs will ship with one-time-use activation codes that render them irrelevant to anyone but the person who first uses them.

You know, all the talk has been about not being able to play used games but what will this do to used console sales?

Will all of the used Xbox 720 consoles in Gamestop already have a library of games pre-loaded in them or will used consoles not be able to be resold either? Maybe there will be a system restore of sorts when a console is resold.

[Griking]

Congratulations, I am now a PC gamer for life.


As a life long PC gamer this always makes me happy to read.

[WCP]

Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about this whole thing.


This does appear to be the beginning of the end in regards to the rights we have as consumers of video games. The rights that we have, with physical games on the current platforms is something that so many of us take for granted. I can go to Craigslist or Ebay, and find a used copy of Halo 4. I can buy it, play it for as long as I want, and sell it off to somebody else. I can give it to my cousin. I can give it to a nephew. I can go to Redbox or Blockbuster and rent a game. I can have a rental service with GameFly. All of this, is eventually going to become a distant memory.

So, yeah... That part sucks.


On the other hand, there is the total and complete downfall of GameStop....




Man... which to choose , lol ?

[retroguy]

WCP, the gaming community is already full of elitist snobs (sorry, but it's true). All Gamestop has ever done is level the playing field (no pun intended) so that normal people can have just as much fun with it as the rich kids. If Gamestop goes away, elitist snobs will be the only gamers left and, at least as far as I'm concerned, it won't be a hobby worth pursuing because even if you shell out the cash for a new console and games, you'll be surrounded by jerks all the time. Who in their right mind would want that? Not me.

[Collector_Gaming]

You know, all the talk has been about not being able to play used games but what will this do to used console sales?

Will all of the used Xbox 720 consoles in Gamestop already have a library of games pre-loaded in them or will used consoles not be able to be resold either? Maybe there will be a system restore of sorts when a console is resold.

You know you raise a very interesting point there. Which i just thought of how its gonna work. Everything's gonna work through cloud service. As messed up as that sounds. Its the only way. Unless.... You sell the console by what is on it for software.
I am almost positive its gonna be cloud serviced which to me drops a super huge f bomb to the consumer. To me cloud is the worst thing ever to be made up in tech world. I dont trust it for one second.

[Gamevet]

Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about this whole thing.


This does appear to be the beginning of the end in regards to the rights we have as consumers of video games. The rights that we have, with physical games on the current platforms is something that so many of us take for granted. I can go to Craigslist or Ebay, and find a used copy of Halo 4. I can buy it, play it for as long as I want, and sell it off to somebody else. I can give it to my cousin. I can give it to a nephew. I can go to Redbox or Blockbuster and rent a game. I can have a rental service with GameFly. All of this, is eventually going to become a distant memory.

So, yeah... That part sucks.


On the other hand, there is the total and complete downfall of GameStop....




Man... which to choose , lol ?

That also includes the luxury of being able to take a game to a friend's house for play. Will you be able to do it, if you log in on your friend's console?

[WCP]

All I know is, 2013 is going to be very, very interesting year in gaming. Can't wait for Feb. 20th and the PS4 announcement, and then of course, Microsoft will have a MTV special or something. If both companies are jumping on the anti-used game bandwagon, we're going to find out pretty soon. This is something I'd imagine both companies would want to leak out early to "prepare" consumers for this new paradigm.

[The 1 2 P]

You'll take away my used games, but you'll never take away my DRM Free game purchases and cracks.

I read that totally hoping you were going to end with a Braveheart-esque " but you'll never take my FREEDOMMMMMMMMM" monologue. Maybe next time.


Not trying to troll, but I told you so. WiiU FTW!


Third Parties are going to have to go to the Wii U if they want their games to be sold. This thing single handedly kills the Durango. Besides Bayonetta 2 is coming out soon. :D

I think you two are overestimating the WiiU. I have a feeling that even if the Next Box and PS4 didn't allow used games they would both still outsell the WiiU, atleast here in the US. I'm going to give all three the benefit of the doubt but the WiiU doesn't seem to be exciting gamers the way past Nintendo systems have. From all the feedback I've gotten(based on my personal experience of course) gamers are more excited about the PS4/Next Box and neither have even been announced yet. I'm not completly counting Nintendo out yet but I don't see the WiiU being another run-away success for Nintendo.

[The 1 2 P]

If this is the way MS and Sony plan to go, I'll just ride out the software available for the PS3 and 360 until they drop support.

This is what I was thinking at first but honestly the used game thing doesn't kill it for me. Now if the next gen systems ONLY played digital games and they were still $50-$60 on release then yes I would stick with my PS3/360/Wii.

I know alot of people are complaning about this but you know that alot of them would still buy it anyway. I mean it's already happening this gen. All of Sony's first party games for the last two years have required online passes for the multiplayer and the same thing can be said about EA's games. Yet this has not slowed down sales of Uncharted, Madden, Battlefield, etc. I personally buy most of my games new but I definitely enjoy buying games used at yard sales and flea markets too. I may not like it if Microsoft and Sony did this with all their games(especially since I play alot of online multiplayer) but it's something that people would just have to get used to. But it's not going to kill off console gaming over night and I also doubt it will send waves of people flocking to the WiiU.

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

As someone who has been using Steam for nearly 10 years to buy new games, nor makes a habit of trading games in, I don't really see a particular problem with this. What all this anti-used game trend seems to be geared to is pushing players to buying digital downloads over physical media. Because undoubtedly the NEXT general will be discless. So you better get used to it.

Or... if enough people get pissed off and refuse to buy the thing, they might wise up.

[danawhitaker]

As someone who has been using Steam for nearly 10 years to buy new games, nor makes a habit of trading games in, I don't really see a particular problem with this. What all this anti-used game trend seems to be geared to is pushing players to buying digital downloads over physical media. Because undoubtedly the NEXT general will be discless. So you better get used to it.

Hmm. Nope. I'm not going to get used to it. I'll simply choose not to consume the product I guess. Why does the game industry think they're so special when it comes to second-hand products? I don't see the car manufacturers moaning around about people buying used cars. Lots of people buy used books (look at stores like Half-Price Books). Lots of people buy used DVDs/Blu-ray discs. You don't see the Gap crying around about people buying their used clothing at thrift stores. Imagine this world if second-hand markets didn't exist for anything at all. I doubt there's anyone on this forum who likes the idea who doesn't have at least one second-hand product. Heck, imagine if all houses had to be new, and you couldn't buy a house that had already been built. Of course every company would prefer you pay for a brand new item rather than buying it used. But that's not only wasteful, it's unreasonable to expect. Buying second-hand products is a way for people to acquire things they want or need and still be able to afford other necessities.

One of the biggest problems I see with this idea is what happens fifteen years down the line, when this console becomes "classic". It will be difficult if not impossible to acquire games without resorting to paying the (what I'm sure would be) inflated prices they'd want on their download servers. For those of us who prefer physical copies, we'd have to be seeking out sealed copies with intact activation codes - and that of course assumes those activation codes would still be valid, and that the activation servers would be up and running for eternity. I value still being able to play my older consoles, and that's a freedom I don't ever want to give up. There's also the fact that sometimes, even after a few years on the market, a new copy of a game will be nearly impossible to track down. I had that problem with Super Mario Galaxy for the Wii. No one had it new, not even stores that only sell games new. I could have bought it online, but I wanted to purchase it from a physical store. So, I had to go the used route.

Now, while I don't agree with piracy, I also do not agree with the arguments that anti-piracy people love to make. Just because someone buys an item second-hand doesn't mean they ever would have paid full-price for that item in the first place. I know this has been the case for me with some games. I either wait until they go dirt-cheap on sale, or I buy them used at Gamestop. I'm a single parent, gaming is one of my few hobbies, and I like to stretch my budget as much as I can. I can still remember when new games would cost about $40, now they're generally up to $60 (plus any download content they want to milk you for, if you're into that). And exposure to products through second-hand means allows people to discover new content they necessarily wouldn't have been able to otherwise, and means they might start investing in newer stuff, and recommending games to their friends, who in turn will also buy them.

This move, along with the always-online component, is a deal-breaker for me. It basically turns console gaming into PC gaming, and if I wanted to game on my PC, I would. When I played World of Warcraft actively, and my internet connection would go down or would become unstable, I'd turn to my console. I do not want to be in the position of not being able to play my console games just because my internet connection is down. That's ridiculous. I should not need to be connected to the internet to play single-player offline games like Angry Birds Trilogy, or the single-player mode of Band Hero. That is the game industry trying to over-reach and control how I use my devices, and I want no part of that. I love the internet, but single-player games should not need an always-on connection to function. Diablo 3 failed hardcore in this regard. I played it a lot when I got it for "free" with a one year commitment to World of Warcraft. I had some issues with my internet connection over the summer after getting it at certain times of day that were hard to track down and fix, and whenever I would get disconnected, it would screw up whatever I'd been doing. It made me not even want to play (well, so did the game itself, but that's another story for another thread).

[JSoup]

No. I believe in supporting artists and creators. As opposed to be an entitled toolbox.

I believe in fair pricing for good products and rewarding artists/creators for not trying to spoon feed me absolute shit. As opposed to blindly encouraging those same artists/creators to make more shit by buying shoddily made products with my nose jammed in the air about it.

[The Adventurer]

Hmm. Nope. I'm not going to get used to it. I'll simply choose not to consume the product I guess. Why does the game industry think they're so special when it comes to second-hand products?

They aren't special. All media is heading this way; from books, to magazines, to comics, to movies, to TV shows, to Video Games. Its just the way the economics are moving in the entertainment industry as a whole. Obsessing about the storage medium of a game being integral to the gaming experience is about as short sighted as saying the most important part about reading is being able to smell the book.

[The Adventurer]

I believe in fair pricing for good products and rewarding artists/creators for not trying to spoon feed me absolute shit. As opposed to blindly encouraging those same artists/creators to make more shit by buying shoddily made products with my nose jammed in the air about it.

If you're not going to pay for what you know are shitty games, WHY PLAY THEM AT ALL?

I don't care for Call of Duty and its ilk. But, I don't make a statement about bad games being popular by playing off stolen copies. I just don't play them. Because that makes sense.

[AlphaGamer]

.........................

[JSoup]

Edit: No, no, no, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this "piracy is this, piracy is that" round-robin again. If I want to pirate a game, I will, deal with it. If you want to pay for an overpriced product, you will, I'll deal with it.

[Rickstilwell1]

The main problem I see here is not the disc activation codes themselves, but the whole online required thing in general. It's going to cut out a lot of communities in general just because not everybody has the kind of Internet required to run it. With the Wii U, you don't have to install that update unless you want to use the unnecessary online features. So people who can't afford monthly high speed internet are just going to get a Wii U when the price goes down and more games come out.

[danawhitaker]

They aren't special. All media is heading this way; from books, to magazines, to comics, to movies, to TV shows, to Video Games. Its just the way the economics are moving in the entertainment industry as a whole. Obsessing about the storage medium of a game being integral to the gaming experience is about as short sighted as saying the most important part about reading is being able to smell the book.

That's funny you mention that, because one of the things I enjoy most about reading is the feel and smell of the books. I'm not going to pay for e-books when I can go buy a physical copy of the same thing. Same goes for comics. I don't like forking over money for things that I don't get a physical item for except in certain scenarios. Everyone who embraces everything digital-only will be sorry when their power goes out for more than two minutes and they realize they don't even have any books to read because they only bought digital copies of them. You really want to trust everything to the cloud and to the corporations? I love seeing a shelf full of books or games or CDs, and organizing them, putting the things I enjoy most in places of honor on my shelves. I can't do that with digital stuff. Or, "Merry Christmas, daughter. Here's a piece of paper I printed out with the download code for that game you wanted" - yay?

It's not that I shun technology, or the internet, or social media, or new advances in technology. But I think that things can coexist without physical things disappearing. It makes me sad to think that if everything goes digital, all the "stuff" that we pass on to people when we die won't exist, and will probably be locked up in some online account, inaccessible behind TOS and unable to be passed to our offspring and family and friends. Which is really the entertainment industry's wet dream - making people pay for the same things over and over forever.

[The Adventurer]

Everyone who embraces everything digital-only will be sorry when their power goes out for more than two minutes and they realize they don't even have any books to read because they only bought digital copies of them.

And if your house burns down, or you have a flood you lose all your books. Straw Man is made of Straw. If the power goes off for any period of time where you're electronic device runs out of power, you've got bigger problems going on then not being able to read.

EDIT: You can't read a print book in the dark either. So again. Straw Man argument.

[Rickstilwell1]

And if your house burns down, or you have a flood you lose all your books. Straw Man is made of Straw. If the power goes off for any period of time where you're electronic device runs out of power, you've got bigger problems going on then not being able to read.

EDIT: You can't read a print book in the dark either. So again. Straw Man argument.

That whole arguement only really matters depending on where you live. There are places that are just never going to be affected by floods, and places where if your power goes out all you have to do is go to your friend's house or a library/store/mall.

There really is a different place for each thing. Digital content is convenient for x purposes and physical media is convenient for y purposes. In my life there really isn't one or the other. It's often best to have them in both places so you have a backup in either case. Classic gaming will become to modern gaming what a flashlight or candle is to a power outage. That thing you can always fire up when your internet goes out.

To me all digital content is really useful for though is portability so when it comes to games I try to only buy ones that I know I will like no matter what. Usually this means sequels or copycats of old games I used to play and enjoyed.

[Griking]

And if your house burns down, or you have a flood you lose all your books. Straw Man is made of Straw. If the power goes off for any period of time where you're electronic device runs out of power, you've got bigger problems going on then not being able to read.

EDIT: You can't read a print book in the dark either. So again. Straw Man argument.

I can if I lose power in the day :ass:

That being said, I don't see ebooks completely replacing physical books any time soon.

[IHatedSega]

No. I believe in supporting artists and creators. As opposed to be an entitled toolbox.

I emulate because I cant afford Link To The Past for $75! Let alone a new game console and a $60 game. I dont play new games because I cant afford it. If I were to buy a console now then I could because its prices are down on the games I want. If they continue wit h$60 prices and no used game options, this industry is never going to be as popular again. Or at least the console side.

And if theres a flood or earthquake where their servers are and not your place then you still cant play your games. Just because one area is being hit by a force of nature and no one else lived around it, then were all affected even though we shouldnt be. Where are they servers going to be stored? Underground?

[dendawg]

And you sirs, have spoken like corporate mouthpieces w/ your heads up each other's butt.

Oh, look...a half-assed attempt at trolling....how adorable!:ass:

[The Adventurer]

And if theres a flood or earthquake where their servers are and not your place then you still cant play your games. Just because one area is being hit by a force of nature and no one else lived around it, then were all affected even though we shouldnt be. Where are they servers going to be stored? Underground?

Companies are generally smart enough to have multiple server locations for just this reason. That's what the 'cloud' is all about. Data isn't stored in one place. Its spread out, duplicated, redundancies on redundancies. It can't be disrupted easily.



I should probably clarify, I'm not for high level DRM crippled games, DRM is bad. Heck, I'm even against system locked games (its the main reason I've not bought any digital games for my 3DS, because they are tied to the device, and not a personal log-in ala Steam) I'm just against the notion that physical media is integral to the video gaming* experience. I know its not, because I haven't bought a boxed PC game since 2004, and it hasn't slowed me down one bit. I'm not saying system locked gaming is the future (I sure hope its not), but direct download is. Physical media just isn't going to hack it for storage space or cost effectiveness 5 or 10 years from now.

*or Comic Books. Or Music. Or Books.

[IHatedSega]

Well, most people's internet isnt good, hence the 6 hour download time for the Wii U update. If we had this this generation Metal Gear Solid 4 is 50 gigs, FIFTY GIGABYTES! How long would that take to download, even if they broke up the game into 5 parts you still have 10 gigs to wait for to download. That would take half a day for me to do on my internet service at night when not as many people are online using the tower. The average storage space someone has for their PS3 is 250 anyway, so how many games can you really have?. Capcom's solution to not taking up space on a hard drive was to have the unlockable characters on the disk, wasnt good of them to charge people for that stuff though.

[Tanooki]

Well glad I have no trust or interest in microsoft systems at all, though it does bother me a bit with Sony in on the racket too. I'm guessing they think that the $5 less Lamestop asks on used stuff won't be much of a deterrant to a new buy, but I think it will be. Used games there can be returned and swapped for another at face value, yet that dick shop will give you like 10-30%~ of your purchase price of a new game turned in which is no good and now with a captive audience they'd do it even more if second hand wasn't killed by this move. Nintendo seems to be the only one with their head only partially in their ass as they're not blocking used, but they are still using asinine system tied accounts which is why I have virtually no downloads on my 3DS and stopped buying them on Wii when it was setup that way when Nintendo Points hit as DSi arrived.

Blocking used games is just unique to games and just arrogant. They try and whine that used games are ruining them and killing jobs. Yeah, right...if used product did that how come all the car companies don't lawyer bomb the shit out of Carmax to put them under? How come the RIAA or the MPAA don't squash the shit out of retailers like FYE that peddle used movies and music on discs? What about used book stores being taken down by Barnes and Noble? It's because it's a fucking lie, a control freak arrogant lie to mask the real problem. The gaming industry thinks it is hollywood and can operate on those kinds of budgets and to bring that level of bang to ever disc and it's entirely unneccessary. A real good game doesn't need a triple AAA actor cast, and a 50 million dollar budget just to create the visuals and audio aspects of the world while hiring some big shot Michael Bey or James Cameron to direct the game. Look at Homefront, hired a huge hollywood writer/director to put that hot mess together along with their coding staffs at THQ and all they did was make an overpriced commonly happening piece of mediocrity which ultimately led to them selling studios, firing middle level employees (to cover the asses of still employed fuckups causing the problem) to cover their asses, and in the end being dissolved and sold off in pieces just recently.

The gaming industry needs to get its own ass, budget, and priorities straight. Used games aren't the problem, THEY ARE. I know it will, I worked in it for years both in development and much longer in media, and I have a brother who still now is a producer at one of those studios.

[Rob2600]

I believe in fair pricing for good products and rewarding artists/creators for not trying to spoon feed me absolute shit. As opposed to blindly encouraging those same artists/creators to make more shit by buying shoddily made products with my nose jammed in the air about it.

If you feel like developers are trying to spoon feed you poop, that's fine. But then why would you go ahead and pirate the poop?


You know, all the talk has been about not being able to play used games but what will this do to used console sales?

Will all of the used Xbox 720 consoles in Gamestop already have a library of games pre-loaded in them or will used consoles not be able to be resold either? Maybe there will be a system restore of sorts when a console is resold.

No need to wonder- this is already happening. People buy used iPhones all the time. Someone even bought *my* used iPhone in 2010. I did a factory reset, and I assume the person who bought it entered his or her credentials and bought new games and apps from scratch.

With all the posts on these forums about how iOS and Android are killing traditional gaming, I'm surprised so many of you are completely ignorant of those platforms and the methods they employ. Game companies don't need to reinvent the wheel.


It's just that digital distribution can suffer in ways physical media can't. No matter how many roms a person downloads, they'll never own the cartridge (barring advancements in 3D printing, at least). There's at least a psychological benefit that comes from real ownership preventing everyone from becoming pirates. You don't want to get to the point where people start to feel that paying for something doesn't net them any gain over outright piracy, which generally doesn't repel people as the idea of physical theft might. If your $60 game gets you exactly the same thing as my free game, well, it's a tough sell once the digital locks in place are inevitably circumvented and the five finger discount is anonymously available at the push of a button.

Good points, but again, iOS and Android are extremely successful and are based solely on digital distribution. There is *no* physical media whatsoever on either platform, but somehow hundreds of millions of people are perfectly fine buying games and apps. I realize games for those platforms rarely exceed $10, but still, I don't hear anybody complaining about the lack of physical media.

And the lack of physical media doesn't seem to encourage piracy either. Yes, people can and do jailbreak their iPhones, but what percentage of owners actually go through the trouble to do that? It's easier to pay a few dollars for a game in the App Store than it is to jailbreak a phone. And that's the key- game companies have to adopt a digital distribution method that's easier, safer, and more convenient than piracy.


I'm sure 80 years ago, some people complained that their local horse buggy store went out of business thanks to these newfangled cars. Magnavox, Atari, and Coleco were pioneers of the entire video game industry and none of them even exist anymore. Times change and as iOS, Android, and Steam have shown, hundreds of millions of people are fine with that.

[JSoup]

If you feel like developers are trying to spoon feed you poop, that's fine. But then why would you go ahead and pirate the poop?

I don't know about this poop you're talking about, but as for developers trying to throw shit at me, perhaps I should clarify that a bit. When I say shit, I'm talking about the result from what I spent to what I'm getting. If I'm being asked to spend $40 on a game with $20 worth of content, yo ho ho, it's a pirates life for me.

[jb143]

And the lack of physical media doesn't seem to encourage piracy either. Yes, people can and do jailbreak their iPhones, but what percentage of owners actually go through the trouble to do that? It's easier to pay a few dollars for a game in the App Store than it is to jailbreak a phone. And that's the key- game companies have to adopt a digital distribution method that's easier, safer, and more convenient than piracy.


Actually, for android anyways, the piracy rate is astronomical. Some people still think that 99cents is too much to pay for games.

[IHatedSega]

Maybe a big problem for games is the way theyre reviewed and the whole hack journalism that exists now. Every single article you read on a site is a commercial for a product, doesnt matter how its written, all that matters is that its for a game or has to do with a game. Theres no professionalism in the whole thing. Everyone is a young 20 something. No Roger Ebert in gaming, and even if there was Roger Ebert reviews only matter to older people, so all those teenagers and kids that are the back bone of the console industry dont care.

[Rob2600]

If I'm being asked to spend $40 on a game with $20 worth of content, yo ho ho, it's a pirates life for me.

But how do you know you're only getting $20 worth of content before you buy the game?


Actually, for android anyways, the piracy rate is astronomical. Some people still think that 99cents is too much to pay for games.

I know this is anecdotal evidence, but nobody I know who has an Android device pirates games or apps. I'm not saying piracy doesn't exist on Android, but out of the hundreds of millions of people who use the platform (phones, tablets, Kindle Fires, etc.), it has to be an extremely small percentage. It's simply too much trouble for the average user, plus the fact that the Play Store is so convenient and inexpensive.

Does music piracy still exist? Of course. But the average user doesn't want to mess with torrents, viruses, etc. It's more convenient to download songs from iTunes or Amazon for 99 cents.

To the average user (not tinkerers and hackers), if the next generation of home game consoles forgoes physical media, they're perfectly fine downloading games as evidenced by iOS, Android, Steam, and the Mac App Store...as long as the overall experience is easy, convenient, and a good value.

[JSoup]

But how do you know you're only getting $20 worth of content before you buy the game?

Learned about the concept through bad purchases.
Then started doing my research on games I was interested in and found that there is generally enough information out there to figure out if a game is worth it or not.
Now I just make blanket assumptions, IE: If it's got a Nintendo sticker on it, it's probably not worth what it's being sold for.

[retroguy]

If it's got a Nintendo sticker on it, it's probably not worth what it's being sold for.

It depends. Wii Sports is fun and all, but I wouldn't buy it unless it was five bucks or something. Super Mario Galaxy, OTOH, would absolutely be worth it, at least for me. Ditto Skyward Sword.

[jb143]

I know this is anecdotal evidence, but nobody I know who has an Android device pirates games or apps. I'm not saying piracy doesn't exist on Android, but out of the hundreds of millions of people who use the platform (phones, tablets, Kindle Fires, etc.), it has to be an extremely small percentage. It's simply too much trouble for the average user, plus the fact that the Play Store is so convenient and inexpensive.


I'm going mainly by what I've heard from developer press releases, news stories, and android developer forums.
Here's a few that a quick google search yielded...
http://www.develop-online.net/news/41526/Madfinger-android-app-suffers-80-piracy-rate
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-05/02/android-market-game-piracy
http://www.develop-online.net/news/38848/Android-app-pirated-2300-more-than-iOS-edition

[LordsOfSkulls]

only problem is when it comes to unable to buy used games.... is that some games out their are $100+ dollars, because they had limited physical copy printed out/people hold on to good games,

I hate buying games digital, i prefare to have my games a physical copy, not for resale, but for the fact that i dont have to download a game i want to play and wait 3-7 hours before it finishes to play the game.

Also it makes me feel like i actually paid for something... with physical copy of box/manual and box art, than some data on the internet.



That why i am supporting/signed up for

http://www.gaijinworks.com/

in line for a pre-order/copy of a physical for PSP Class of Heroes 2.


Only time i am okay with digital copy is if the developers cant bring the game in any other format than a digital copy to state side (form of a good game i take it any way as long as i can have it). For example Unchained Blades for 3DS on eStore, or Corpse Party 1 and 2.

Heck i bought and imported Arcana Heart 3 and Siren's Blood PS3 copies from europe just so i can have a physical copies of this games over digital.

[retroguy]

Interesting. If I had a PSP, I might preorder it too, but I don't. Oh well.

[JSoup]

It depends. Wii Sports is fun and all, but I wouldn't buy it unless it was five bucks or something. Super Mario Galaxy, OTOH, would absolutely be worth it, at least for me. Ditto Skyward Sword.

I am exaggerating a bit, yeah. There are plenty of current Nintendo products that are provably worth the price tag. I normally find the Pokemon and Zelda games deliver quite a bit for what is being asked.

[Griking]

If and when consoles all go primarily digital download I doubt that physical copies will completely disappear though pre-orders may actually become required for some games. Think about it this way, down the road there will likely be a lot more rare and desirable games for collectors.

[Rob2600]

I'm going mainly by what I've heard from developer press releases, news stories, and android developer forums.
Here's a few that a quick google search yielded...
http://www.develop-online.net/news/41526/Madfinger-android-app-suffers-80-piracy-rate

Based on the comments, a lot of people think that game is overpriced ($11 USD) and was a quick, sloppy port of the iOS version. I'm not defending piracy, but an expensive sloppy game isn't going to rake in sales.


http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-05/02/android-market-game-piracy

That game appears to be a glitchy mess. "The audio was so buggy we couldn't work out how to fix it, so we didn't," said Appy Entertainment exec Steven Sargent. Again, a sloppy game isn't going to rake in the sales.

People want an easy, convenient way to buy games *and* good value for their money.

[TonyTheTiger]

Good points, but again, iOS and Android are extremely successful and are based solely on digital distribution. There is *no* physical media whatsoever on either platform, but somehow hundreds of millions of people are perfectly fine buying games and apps.

I think the difference is that outlets like iOS, Android, Steam, etc. didn't have an established status quo. They emerged as independent alternatives. If run of the mill console gaming is Coca-Cola then an iPhone is Diet Coke or even just Pepsi. But taking something that's already established and running smoothly and suddenly replacing it with something else, that's New Coke.

To me, it seems like a sucker bet since at the risk of pissing people off and suffering whatever consequences that can come from people being pissed (which in the digital world usually means focused attempts at piracy), the benefit of cutting off used games is unlikely to be significant enough to overcome the financial woes that are likely the result of bloated budgets. I just can't see the revenue stream growing that much if the only meaningful change is the annihilation of the used market.

[XYXZYZ]

So... if Atlus releases some cool Japanese game, and they only print a few thousand copies, which are all bought up, and I really want to play that game, my only option is an astronomically priced sealed copy?


To me, it seems like a sucker bet since at the risk of pissing people off and suffering whatever consequences that can come from people being pissed (which in the digital world usually means focused attempts at piracy), the benefit of cutting off used games is unlikely to be significant enough to overcome the financial woes that are likely the result of bloated budgets. I just can't see the revenue stream growing that much if the only meaningful change is the annihilation of the used market.

Also, whenever the media companies develop some draconian anti piracy scheme, hackers and modders always respond. I know MS did a pretty good job keeping console modding at a minimum with the 360, but I think the demand for used games is going to be a much more significant force than the average mod-chip customer in the past. Perhaps they can make mod chips that redirect the internet connectivity to some P2P thing on TOR that hosts cracked versions of whatever the game is trying to access?

[The Adventurer]

So... if Atlus releases some cool Japanese game, and they only print a few thousand copies, which are all bought up, and I really want to play that game, my only option is an astronomically priced sealed copy?


Or you can buy he digital copy, who's price will gradually lower over time, or get offered at a steep discount sale periodically.

[AlphaGamer]

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[The Adventurer]

I can purchase a used copy of Rainbow Six Vegas at Gamestop for $2.99. You can't buy it digitally on the Xbox 360 Marketplace that cheap.

I bought Deus Ex Human Revolution for $5 off Steam at Christmas time, I've not seen it that cheap elsewhere.

Anecdotal evidence is not a statistic.

[Gameguy]

Companies are generally smart enough to have multiple server locations for just this reason. That's what the 'cloud' is all about. Data isn't stored in one place. Its spread out, duplicated, redundancies on redundancies. It can't be disrupted easily.
What happens when the company decides years later that it's no longer worth keeping the servers running? That's what happened with Adobe CS2, they decided it wasn't worth keeping the activation server running so they shut it down. Plenty of people were complaining that they couldn't reinstall their copies of CS2 so Adobe did the right thing and basically released it for free, they made available a version that doesn't require online activation and provided everyone a new serial number. That doesn't mean other companies will release their products for free if they take down the servers, you could just be out of luck.

[The Adventurer]

What happens when the company decides years later that it's no longer worth keeping the servers running? That's what happened with Adobe CS2, they decided it wasn't worth keeping the activation server running so they shut it down. Plenty of people were complaining that they couldn't reinstall their copies of CS2 so Adobe did the right thing and basically released it for free, they made available a version that doesn't require online activation and provided everyone a new serial number. That doesn't mean other companies will release their products for free if they take down the servers, you could just be out of luck.

Its a multi billion dollar industry, and online distribution is a lucrative future, the danger of a (growing) distribution channel like Steam or Marketplace going away is practically nil. Or at least no more dangerous then the already existing phenomena of online play servers being taken down over time, or MMOs shutting down. I mean, where online play is concerned that is always a concern. Gaming being physical media based is irrelevant in those cases.

Also, fun fact. You can back up all your Steam purchases locally for personal back ups. I'm not an expert, but I think you can back up your console purchases too for safe keeping. But don't quote me on that.

[AlphaGamer]

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[AlphaGamer]

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