Playstation 4 Finally Officially Announced For Holiday 2013

[RCM]

So, hypothetical scenario:

PS4 games brand new on Blu-Ray come with a one-time activation code (either on paper or coded into the disc).

Another "activation code" costs, say, $10 for a game that's $40-$60 MSRP, and $5 for a game that costs $20 MSRP. (I HOPE that the fees will be less, but let's just go with those numbers for the sake of this scenario.)

If GameStop wants to continue to monetize used software on this platform, they give less in trade in value for the game and sell the used copy at a low enough price point to accommodate for the activation code price and not make the buyer "feel" it.

If they were going to sell the used game for $40, they'll have to sell it for $30. Period.

Sure, GameStop will feel it a bit, but ultimately, it's a hit they'll have to take if this is the reality that consumers are going to face with used software.

IF this turns out to be the reality of the situation, they can't do it any other way. Where a new game costs $50 they can't sell the used one for $40 knowing that the buyer is going to have to pay another $10 when they try to play it. They're still going to have to give shoppers a reason to go with the used merch because that's their business model.

There are still plenty of other avenues for them to profit as a retail chain.

I considered this very scenario when the rumors kicked up regarding blocking second hand games. Stop ripping me off.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I considered this very scenario when the rumors kicked up regarding blocking second hand games. Stop ripping me off.

I'm inside your mind!

[The 1 2 P]

Uh-oh. Not good news...

http://www.gamespot.com/news/playstation-4-wont-be-compatible-with-current-gen-psn-titles-6404274?

Sounds like a hardware issue? If someone was looking for a specific example of a PS4 disappointment, this would be mine.

Yeah I read that earlier. But I can honestly say it doesn't bother me one bit. Of course thats probably because Zombie Nation is the only PSN game I have and that was free from the Outage aftermath. But I could totally understand if this issue pissed people off who own dozens of games on PSN, including their instant game collections for those who are still active PSN+ members when the PS4 launches.

[G-Boobie]

Hmm. Perhaps it's your attitude that's rubbing me the wrong way. Your original post about it had such an abrasive tone to it and came out of thin air because no one had mentioned the issue in two full pages of posts. It's like that guy who stands up and screams something random in blah blah .

I am, in fact, a jerk. You'd best put me on "ignore" if you want to avoid future jerkery. Ass.

[scaleworm]

Also, everyone shut up about the used game thing.

http://m.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/sony-exec-playstation-4-doesnt-block-used-games

Good. Clarification is needed (like this) for them to hit the ground running for this system.

[JSoup]

I am, in fact, a jerk. You'd best put me on "ignore" if you want to avoid future jerkery. Ass.

Fair warning, this can be applied to a decent percentage of the active userbase, so if your goal is to avoid jerkery-ness, you might want to take the IHatedSega route.


Good. Clarification is needed (like this) for them to hit the ground running for this system.

Not really needed. It's the next major Sony system. So long as the games are big and pretty, people will buy it.

[G-Boobie]

Fair warning, this can be applied to a decent percentage of the active userbase, so if your goal is to avoid jerkery-ness, you might want to take the IHatedSega route.

JSoup is correct.

Dana, let me illustrate for you the reasons for my jerkery; I have been arguing with an unwanted influx of GameFAQs kids and half-bright, entitled Internet morons in relation to the used game thing for four or five months now. This is the thread that everyone's attention is focused now, so rather than post that link in two or three basically dead threads, I posted here. You walked into the middle of a conversation you weren't a part of and attempted to assert butt hurt rights. Fair mistake, as its a public conversation, but in the future? Please think twice before attempting butt hurt.

Now, on with the thread.

[danawhitaker]

Fair enough. On with the thread ;)

One of the latest tidbits I stumbled upon: http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/dualshock-3-not-compatible-with-ps4-17691

Not really surprising. I ran into a similar issue when I got my Wii U. My original Wiimotes wouldn't work with the Wii U, so I had to pony up for a new Wii Remote Plus. No one really likes to spring for new hardware, but it's part of the cost of buying into the new console. I know a few people who are upset about it, but I don't see a huge concern since I'd assume most new games will be designed to take advantage of the new controller anyway, and you'd lose out on functionality if you tried to use a DualShock 3. The only place it would be relevant is in backwards compatibility, and with PSN games not being transferrable, nor PS3 saves, I'm don't think that's terribly important either.

[Dr. BaconStein]

I don't like where this is going. I would have thought consoles would eventually adopt the mobile business model like Ouya and begin to scale back, but instead they're just getting bigger and bigger. 4K support? Why? What average consumer will own that kind of display within the next few years?

To be honest, I'm surprised Sony is even unveiling/releasing their next console this early. I would have thought they would just lay low and continue to live off of the PS3 for a few more years. Why the sudden jolt forward?

[kupomogli]

Playstation 4 Eye.

From the sounds of it, the Move should be much more accurate without cutting image quality.


As for the PlayStation 4 Eye, well, it's a much more dramatic shift compared with the predecessor. The new bar-shaped Eye, of course, works with PlayStation Move (and DualShock 4) motion control, and looks on paper as a more suitable contender against a future version of Microsoft's Kinect. Why? Well, the Eye packs dual cameras that can individually capture 1280x800 pixel RAW/YUV video at 30fps (and 640x480 at 120fps or 320x192 at 240fps) each -- these figures stand way above the existing single-lens Eye and its outdated 640x480 video capture capabilities.

Those the dual-lens Eye can observe an 85-degree diagonal viewing angle (up from the previous 75 degrees) and should have little issue perceiving depth and the location of multiple players in a living room. For audio capture, the Eye can hear a great deal due to its four integrated microphones, which could make misunderstood voice commands a thing of the past. Gamers can also log in to the PS4 with the Eye's facial-recognition software.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57570456-1/finer-details-about-playstation-4s-dualshock-4-controller-eye-camera/


External Dimension Approx: 186mm x 27mm x 27mm (width x height x depth)
(tentative)
Weight Approx: 183g (tentative)
Video: Video Pixel (Maximum) 1280 x 800 pixel x 2
Video Frame Rate 1280×800 pixel @ 60fps
640×400 pixel @ 120fps
320×192 pixel @ 240fps
Video Format RAW, YUV (uncompressed)
Features: Lens Dual Lenses, F value/F2.0 fixed focus
Capture Range 30cm～∞
Field-of-View 85°
Microphone 4 Channel Microphone Array
Connection Type PS4 dedicated connector (AUX connector)
Cable Length Approx. 2m (tentative)

http://wololo.net/2013/02/21/sony-releases-full-ps4controller-specs-and-details-ps-eye/


Sony has largely abandoned the Move on the PS3 and the only major first party implementation of Move compatibility lately has been as an add-on feature to FPS shooters.

I'm not really a fan of motion controls, so I somewhat agree with you. But like Frankie said, they put a lot of money into the R&D of this device. It also wasn't able to reach any sort of potential because it was both an accessory and was overshadowed by Kinect from day one. However, they have released some games recently and there are future games that still have Move capability. Whatever your opinion on Move or Kinect, Sony integrating Move into the PS4 and Microsoft more than likely integrating Kinect is a good move for both companies if you ask me.

[WCP]

I think Sony is going to need to pack in a Move wand with each PS4. If they don't put a wand in the box, then how will developers know that each PS4 owner has on ? I'm not a hater of the Move. I got one back when it first came out, and I thought that Sports Champions was pretty good. I always thought that Sony would have a killer tennis game with their wand controller. Or maybe a killer golf game. I'm not sure that ever happened with the PS3, but hopefully it will happen with the PS4.

[danawhitaker]

I think Sony is going to need to pack in a Move wand with each PS4. If they don't put a wand in the box, then how will developers know that each PS4 owner has on ? I'm not a hater of the Move. I got one back when it first came out, and I thought that Sports Champions was pretty good. I always thought that Sony would have a killer tennis game with their wand controller. Or maybe a killer golf game. I'm not sure that ever happened with the PS3, but hopefully it will happen with the PS4.

It would be nice if they did, but they don't really have to. They can just make people buy them, like Nintendo does with the Wii U. That only comes with the new touchscreen Game Pad, no Wiimote or nunchuck.

[Daltone]

It would be nice if they did, but they don't really have to. They can just make people buy them, like Nintendo does with the Wii U. That only comes with the new touchscreen ame Pad, no Wiimote or nunchuck.

A little off topic - I am hoping that the PS4 doesn't go through quite as many hardware variations as recent consoles. The PS3 and Xbox seemed to have a huge list of different combinations of hard drives, compatibility etc witin 12 months of launch. I want to just buy a console and have it work. If a "slim" verson comes out at the end of life cycle, well, great. What the world doesn't need is 57 varities of PS3 within 12 months, or an Apple / Nintendo (handheld) policy of releasing hardware with comparatively minor improvements for a premium every so often (example: 3DS XL... was anyone not expecing that? Why not release it at launch.. oh.. because it is an 'improvement' that will net more cash.)

I'm also generally unimpressed when something that is fairly important is left out of the box (like a Wii-mote, or possibily the Playstation wand thing if it is that big of a deal and is used in a load of games).

I buy consoles because I want to plug something in to my TV and play. If I have to spend a small fortune on over priced additional fluff, or if there is no benefit in being an early adopter because the hardware gets improved in six months, I'll just spend my money on upgrading my graphics card and use Steam's Big Picture thing.

[duffmanth]

The new controller doesn't look like much a of change from the current PS3 controller. I was impressed with the lineup of games that were announced and the fact we got to see some in game footage. A price and visual of the system would've been nice though. I don't give a shit about any of this social media stuff though, it's a game console to play games, not broadcast shit to the world. I just hope Sony doesn't fuck up the price and features. At this point, I realize that any new Sony console will be at least $399. I would like to see a 500GB model at $399 at the very least. If they need to leave out backwards compatibility to keep costs down, then so be it as I don't give a shit about playing PS3 games on a PS4.

[duffmanth]

Any word on Team Ico's project being slated for the PS4?

Watch the Last Guardian be announced as a PS4 launch title lol.

[G-Boobie]

Watch the Last Guardian be announced as a PS4 launch title lol.

goddammit. I'll have to buy one.

[Bojay1997]

The new controller doesn't look like much a of change from the current PS3 controller. I was impressed with the lineup of games that were announced and the fact we got to see some in game footage. A price and visual of the system would've been nice though. I don't give a shit about any of this social media stuff though, it's a game console to play games, not broadcast shit to the world. I just hope Sony doesn't fuck up the price and features. At this point, I realize that any new Sony console will be at least $399. I would like to see a 500GB model at $399 at the very least. If they need to leave out backwards compatibility to keep costs down, then so be it as I don't give a shit about playing PS3 games on a PS4.

I don't think you're going to see anything under $500 from Sony this time around. The fact that they boosted the RAM to 8GB of DDR5 is awesome, but it has a wholesale price of $150-$175 and it's not going to get much cheaper between now and the Fall.

[WCP]

It would be nice if they did, but they don't really have to. They can just make people buy them, like Nintendo does with the Wii U. That only comes with the new touchscreen Game Pad, no Wiimote or nunchuck.

I think this would be a huge mistake. Developers won't be able to assume that everybody that owns a PS4 has a move wand. The Wii thing is a bit different, because there are literally millions upon millions of Wii-motes floating around in the wild. The move wand isn't nearly as ubiquitous.


By the way, it's not like I'm the worlds biggest Playstation Move fan or anything, I just think that it has some nice potential, and it would be a shame if developers totally ignored it, because they can't assume that every PS4 owner has one.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I think this would be a huge mistake. Developers won't be able to assume that everybody that owns a PS4 has a move wand. The Wii thing is a bit different, because there are literally millions upon millions of Wii-motes floating around in the wild. The move wand isn't nearly as ubiquitous.


By the way, it's not like I'm the worlds biggest Playstation Move fan or anything, I just think that it has some nice potential, and it would be a shame if developers totally ignored it, because they can't assume that every PS4 owner has one.

They're not going to pack them in the standard set, but they will likely continue to bundle them with stuff making purchase appealing like games, peripherals like Sharpshooter, etc. and if the new Playstation camera doesn't come standard with the console they'll probably bundle a wand with that at retail too.

Whatever the case may be, they're clearly NOT abandoning the hardware in the next generation, and that's a good thing. If it has nothing else going for it, I think that it's still got POTENTIAL.

[kedawa]

I want the option of not getting the camera, because I find it creepy to have a camera pointed at me all the time, and I don't have room for motion gaming in my apartment anyway.

[kupomogli]

I think this would be a huge mistake. Developers won't be able to assume that everybody that owns a PS4 has a move wand. The Wii thing is a bit different, because there are literally millions upon millions of Wii-motes floating around in the wild. The move wand isn't nearly as ubiquitous.


By the way, it's not like I'm the worlds biggest Playstation Move fan or anything, I just think that it has some nice potential, and it would be a shame if developers totally ignored it, because they can't assume that every PS4 owner has one.

Wasn't it stated that the Dualshock 4's sensor light incorporates Move technology? So everyone would have access to atleast one Move/navigation with the Dualshock 4, possibly more if they have any Move wands or navigation controllers left from last gen.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Wasn't it stated that the Dualshock 4's sensor light incorporates Move technology? So everyone would have access to atleast one Move/navigation with the Dualshock 4, possibly more if they have any Move wands or navigation controllers left from last gen.

Good point. The controllers have the tech built in, so everybody will in fact have some type of Move functionality available.

[kedawa]

Not if they don't ship the camera with every SKU.

[Rickstilwell1]

The used games being allowed thing is a lot more settling than the rumors that were going around. It actually gives people more of a choice this generation, epseically for collectors who want longevity for the system beyond its retail lifespan (we as collectors could be seeing more of a Wii U vs PS4 than a PS4 vs Durango).

Now the only one still speculated on with that rumor is the codenamed Durango Xbox. If they choose to block used games then they might be known as the "third system" this time around. Especially if they don't support Xbox 360 games and lose their already dedicated install base. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft because they've only brought very limited support of Xbox originals to the 360 then killed Xbox originals online play when they didn't really have to. They're more likely to treat their console like a PC because they've had their other foot in the PC market for years. At the same time, maybe some people would still want one so they can "play it while it lasts" and record the footage for later viewing rather than miss out on something they can't get back, if only for the exclusives.

If the PS4 can stream the previous consoles' back catalog and the Durango can't, that might give it an advantage.

All I know is that I am pretty excited because starting at the end of June I'm getting back up to $3000 a month by working 7 days a week (just working less hours in a day than I do now & the work isn't as hard), so I should be able to afford all the officially announced new game systems I'm missing: PS Vita, Wii U & PS4.

[The 1 2 P]

Now the only one still speculated on with that rumor is the codenamed Durango Xbox. If they choose to block used games then they might be known as the "third system" this time around.

While it hasn't officially been announced yet I seriously doubt they would do this. Even before Sony's conference on Wednesday I said that neither would do this out right but that the tech would be there if they changed their minds later down the road(the tech is already there if they wanted to do this with the 360 and PS3 respectively). But Microsoft is not foolish enough to make their console stand out as the only one that blocks used games so don't expect to hear that announcment when they finally reveal their new console.


Especially if they don't support Xbox 360 games and lose their already dedicated install base.

I think this is much more relevant to both systems. It's already been revealed that if you purchase a PS4 you can't play PS1, PS2, PS3 or PSN games because of the hardware change. While it's not a big deal to me(I only own one PSN game and I'll be keeping one of my PS3's) this could be a deal breaker for many who are heavily invested in their current game catologs, rather we're talking about dozens of physical games or dozens of PSN games, including the instant game collection. Sadly, I feel that this is one area where Microsoft will also disappoint their customers by telling them that their XBL online games can not carry over to the new system but I'm hoping to be wrong on this one. But it gets more interesting than that....

So far theres no word if you can even carry over your PSN account to the PS4. You have to figure that since you are losing all of your content anyway Sony may make you start over, which would again suck for those who want to keep their trophy collectiosn going on the new system. Atleast with Microsoft I know that I will be able to keep my same gamertag I've had since the original Xbox but they too might say that my achievements are not being transferred over. Of course neither has announced this is going to happen but if they are getting rid of other links to the older systems(games, downloaded movies, music, etc) you have to wonder how far it will go. Just food for thought.

[kedawa]

I can't see the lack of BC really being that big of a deal. The competition certainly won't play PS1, PS2, or PS3 games either. At worst, it will put them on an even playing field with MS.

[kupomogli]

So far theres no word if you can even carry over your PSN account to the PS4.

More than likely you'll be able to. They did announce the Vita/PS4 compatibility and Vita still has PSN.

[Kiddo]

Not really surprising. I ran into a similar issue when I got my Wii U. My original Wiimotes wouldn't work with the Wii U, so I had to pony up for a new Wii Remote Plus..

My launch-era Wiimotes worked just fine on my Wii U. o.o

I'm more miffed about the lack of Gamecube controller support.

[danawhitaker]

My launch-era Wiimotes worked just fine on my Wii U. o.o

I'm more miffed about the lack of Gamecube controller support.

They might work for basic stuff, but certain games will require you to have the motion plus addon or a Wiimote that supports that natively. I couldn't get an original one to work with Nintendo Land. Maybe it was a fluke and I hadn't properly synched it to the console.

[kupomogli]

The Wiimotes and original Wii accessories only work for backwards compatibility. Wii only. They don't work for any Wii U content.

[danawhitaker]

The Wiimotes and original Wii accessories only work for backwards compatibility. Wii only. They don't work for any Wii U content.

Thanks for the clarification. It's been a few months since I went through the whole setup process before Christmas morning and couldn't remember the specifics.

[Rickstilwell1]

While it hasn't officially been announced yet I seriously doubt they would do this. Even before Sony's conference on Wednesday I said that neither would do this out right but that the tech would be there if they changed their minds later down the road(the tech is already there if they wanted to do this with the 360 and PS3 respectively). But Microsoft is not foolish enough to make their console stand out as the only one that blocks used games so don't expect to hear that announcment when they finally reveal their new console.



I think this is much more relevant to both systems. It's already been revealed that if you purchase a PS4 you can't play PS1, PS2, PS3 or PSN games because of the hardware change. While it's not a big deal to me(I only own one PSN game and I'll be keeping one of my PS3's) this could be a deal breaker for many who are heavily invested in their current game catologs, rather we're talking about dozens of physical games or dozens of PSN games, including the instant game collection. Sadly, I feel that this is one area where Microsoft will also disappoint their customers by telling them that their XBL online games can not carry over to the new system but I'm hoping to be wrong on this one. But it gets more interesting than that....

So far theres no word if you can even carry over your PSN account to the PS4. You have to figure that since you are losing all of your content anyway Sony may make you start over, which would again suck for those who want to keep their trophy collectiosn going on the new system. Atleast with Microsoft I know that I will be able to keep my same gamertag I've had since the original Xbox but they too might say that my achievements are not being transferred over. Of course neither has announced this is going to happen but if they are getting rid of other links to the older systems(games, downloaded movies, music, etc) you have to wonder how far it will go. Just food for thought.

I thought I read somewhere that the PS4 would have a unique feature that would allow you to stream any of the old Playstation line's games on it. Was that just a rumor too? Sure you might have to start over, making it only really a better option for people who never played the originals or who don't own the original hard copies but it is still three generations to take from while the Durango would only have two generations to pull from if they did the same thing.

[WCP]

The Wiimotes and original Wii accessories only work for backwards compatibility. Wii only. They don't work for any Wii U content.


I thought that I heard that certain mini games on Nintendoland will work with regular Wii Motes, and some require the Wii Motion Plus. I could have sworn I heard this talked about in multiple places, and on various podcasts.

I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

[WCP]

I thought I read somewhere that the PS4 would have a unique feature that would allow you to stream any of the old Playstation line's games on it. Was that just a rumor too?

Sony did buy GaiKai for like 300 million for their streaming technology, with the thinking that they would be able to use that as a band-aid for not having hardware BC. The thinking however, is that this is going to be something that Sony rolls out slowly over time. Also, there are a number of issues associated with this whole thing like bandwidth caps, and what kind up speeds you get on your home internet.

[kupomogli]

I thought that I heard that certain mini games on Nintendoland will work with regular Wii Motes, and some require the Wii Motion Plus. I could have sworn I heard this talked about in multiple places, and on various podcasts.

I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

Maybe. I don't own one, I was just posting what I read about it. Maybe someone who owns a Wii U can clarify this? Can Wii U controllers only be used on the Wii U side and Wii controllers only be used on the Wii side?

[Jehusephat]

Maybe. I don't own one, I was just posting what I read about it. Maybe someone who owns a Wii U can clarify this? Can Wii U controllers only be used on the Wii U side and Wii controllers only be used on the Wii side?

I have a Wii U, and I had no trouble at all getting my Wii remotes to work with the console. Motion Plus is required to play some of the games in Nintendoland, but I've been using them as controllers for New Super Mario Bros. U without the attachments and they both seem to work fine. I was actually impressed that Nintendo allowed backwards compatibility for Wii remotes as opposed to making everyone buy new controllers for the Wii U.

The Wii controllers don't work until you synchronize them with the console. I hadn't played my Wii in years, so it took me a second or two to remember that I needed to do that.

[kedawa]

Sony did buy GaiKai for like 300 million for their streaming technology, with the thinking that they would be able to use that as a band-aid for not having hardware BC. The thinking however, is that this is going to be something that Sony rolls out slowly over time. Also, there are a number of issues associated with this whole thing like bandwidth caps, and what kind up speeds you get on your home internet.

So far, they're only using the PS4 as a Gaikai server to stream games to the Vita, but there's nothing stopping them from using it as a client for an online Gaikai server that plays previous generation games, or even super computer powered future games once the PS4 is old hat.

[Leo_A]

The Wiimotes and original Wii accessories only work for backwards compatibility. Wii only. They don't work for any Wii U content.

You have it all backwards. It's Wii U controller's that don't work with Wii titles in Wii mode (Which is just stupid when the gamepad and Pro Controller have everything necessary to substitute for a GameCube or Classic Controller in compatible Wii titles).

Original Wii controller's are supported by a wide variety of Wii U software. Wiimotes and nunchucks even carry Wii U branding on their boxes these days because of that compatibility.

[danawhitaker]

You have it all backwards. It's Wii U controller's that don't work with Wii titles in Wii mode (Which is just stupid when the gamepad and Pro Controller have everything necessary to substitute for a GameCube or Classic Controller in compatible Wii titles).

Original Wii controller's are supported by a wide variety of Wii U software. Wiimotes and nunchucks even carry Wii U branding on their boxes these days because of that compatibility.

Supposedly Pikmin 3 is going to require MotionPlus, and the Zelda and Metroid mini-game in Nintendo Land already do. So as long as you don't want to play any of those, you're fine with a standard Wiimote. It's rather confusing really. It seems like developers aren't required to use MotionPlus, so some will and some won't and it'll just vary. I think in a way I'd rather have seen them shift to using that exclusively just for the sake of consistency.

[kedawa]

I think it's absolutely retarded for games to require controllers from the previous generation of the hardware.

[Leo_A]

He mean's that Pikmin 3 will require a Motion Plus equipped Wiimote if you choose to play it with a Wiimote. As far as I'm aware, there's been no sign as of it yet of a Wii U release that actually mandates that you utilize Wii compatible controller's for single player. I imagine the upcoming Wii Fit U will change that situation though.

Hopefully it becomes commonplace. Motion on the Wii stunk most of the time but where it worked, it was great to have. There's no reason why standard controller support should be shoehorned into projects like those where it doesn't make sense to support. There's plenty of Wiimotes and nunchucks to go around regardless of the fact that those controller's aren't bundled in with the system.

I can't imagine something like Wii Sports U being as good of a game as it could be if it needs to be able to be played with either Wii control's or the Wii U's gamepad.


Supposedly Pikmin 3 is going to require MotionPlus, and the Zelda and Metroid mini-game in Nintendo Land already do. So as long as you don't want to play any of those, you're fine with a standard Wiimote. It's rather confusing really. It seems like developers aren't required to use MotionPlus, so some will and some won't and it'll just vary. I think in a way I'd rather have seen them shift to using that exclusively just for the sake of consistency.

I think that there's enough Motion Plus Wiimotes out there now where we don't have to worry about a developer eschewing it in favor of a regular Wiimote when the enhanced capabilities would be beneficial (Look at the sales of Wii Sports Resort for some evidence of just how widespread Motion Plus adoption eventually became). So I'm glad there's not a mandate so that when a regular Wiimote is adequate for a situation, it's available as an option.

I'm sure we're going to have no shortage of software that features motion control that will include Motion Plus support.

[duffmanth]

I don't think you're going to see anything under $500 from Sony this time around. The fact that they boosted the RAM to 8GB of DDR5 is awesome, but it has a wholesale price of $150-$175 and it's not going to get much cheaper between now and the Fall.

Yeah you could be right? People are just gonna have to get use to the fact that a cutting console isn't going to be cheap. I still would say $399 will be the lowest the PS4 will be, but probably closer to $450-499. People that are hoping for a $299-350 PS4 are delusional.

[Leo_A]

If Sony think's there's any prayer that a $500 game console will succeed in 2013, the Playstation 4 is going to be their last game console.

They're not in the position to afford a repeat of the same screwup two generation's in a row.

[WCP]

If Sony think's there's any prayer that a $500 game console will succeed in 2013, the Playstation 4 is going to be their last game console.

They're not in the position to afford a repeat of the same screwup two generation's in a row.

Honestly, I don't see how either company can sell their machines for less than $449.99 or $499.99. If either Sony or Microsoft prices their system at $399.99, that would be ideal, but I just think the hit per console would be extremely harsh. Remember, Microsoft is going to be throwing a new version of Kinect in with every console. Sony is using 8 gigs of DDR5. Sony is also including a more advanced camera with every console.

It's going to be very hard to get either box priced at $399.99 this time. If one of them can do it, then more power to them, but I just can't see it based on the specs announced and the various rumors.

[CatTehBus]

I think Sony made a good move by showing us the controller so early, this gives them alot of time to see what people think and redesign if they need to. I remember they also did this with the PS3 boomerang controller. I can't imagine how the touch screen will be useful or easy to use but maybe I'm just not being creative enough

[kedawa]

Sony is also including a more advanced camera with every console.
They actually didn't confirm anything about this yet.
I'm hoping that they don't.

[Bojay1997]

If Sony think's there's any prayer that a $500 game console will succeed in 2013, the Playstation 4 is going to be their last game console.

They're not in the position to afford a repeat of the same screwup two generation's in a row.

I don't know, the US economy is slowly improving and people haven't really had the opportunity to buy a new console from either Sony or Microsoft in 6-7 years. Plus, we live in an era when parents buy their kids $600+ iPads and $200 smartphones every couple of years. Given that both PS4 and Durango are based on PC technology makes it easy to argue the value proposition simply because you can compare what comes in the console to comparable PCs. Heck, people paid $300 - $350 for the WiiU and that doesn't even come close to the technology or capability packed in the PS4 and likely Durango as well.

[The 1 2 P]

Honestly, I don't see how either company can sell their machines for less than $449.99 or $499.99. If either Sony or Microsoft prices their system at $399.99, that would be ideal, but I just think the hit per console would be extremely harsh. Remember, Microsoft is going to be throwing a new version of Kinect in with every console. Sony is using 8 gigs of DDR5. Sony is also including a more advanced camera with every console.

It's going to be very hard to get either box priced at $399.99 this time. If one of them can do it, then more power to them, but I just can't see it based on the specs announced and the various rumors.

Well for Microsoft the solution is already in the testing stage. And that would be the subscription model 360 where you pay $99 up front and then pay the rest over a 2 year period for $14.99 a month thru an XBL gold membership. Considering many people are already use to doing this with their smart phones(with most still under the illusion that their phone is actually free) it's a genius move on Microsoft's part. And more importantly, it answers your question of how they can afford to launch the console under a $300 price point.

[kupomogli]

While there's some people who have probably went the $99 for a 360 and then the monthly fee, most people wouldn't go that route. The only people who would pay such a ridiculous price are the same very few people who would even think of shopping at Rent a Center or similar places.

[The 1 2 P]

While there's some people who have probably went the $99 for a 360 and then the monthly fee, most people wouldn't go that route. The only people who would pay such a ridiculous price are the same very few people who would even think of shopping at Rent a Center or similar places.

Last time I checked Rent A Center was still in business so obviously enough people shop there to keep them going. But regarding the subscription, I still think it's silly that people pay $50-$100 a month for their smart phone plans. Thats $600-$1,200 every year and yet millions of people do just that and I bet alot of them don't think twice about it. So I could easily see that carrying over to a video game console or any other number of consumer products. As far as most people not going the route of a $99 Xbox, this option has only been available for roughly a year in limited stores/test markets. Had it been available from day one it'd be a whole other story. And thats why I think that Microsoft will indeed make that one of the options come launch time for their new system. And if this does happen and the price of the premium system is $400-$450 I could definitely see a certain type of shopper going for the subscription model, especially since it's so similiar to a smart phone contract.

[WCP]

Microsoft might be selling the 360 for $99.99 if you sign up for a 2 year contract at $14.99 a month, or whatever it is, but that's for the current Xbox. When the new one comes out, they can't give that thing away for $99, unless they lock you down to like a 5 year contract or something, lol. I doubt that many people would be interested in that. So instead they would probably sell it for $299 with a 2 year committment (@ $14.99 per month), instead of $99. The other option would be to buy the cheap version of the Xbox Infinity for $449.99, or the higher end model for $549.99.

(just a guess)

[The 1 2 P]

I'm not saying the subscription model is guaranteed to be priced at $99, I'm just saying they will probably have a subscription model as an alternative option to just buying it all at once. It might be $149 or it might be $199. And also don't expect them to offer 5 year contracts. In order to keep them as similiar to smart phone contracts as possible they would most likely only offer 2 or 3 year deals.

[danawhitaker]

Well for Microsoft the solution is already in the testing stage. And that would be the subscription model 360 where you pay $99 up front and then pay the rest over a 2 year period for $14.99 a month thru an XBL gold membership. Considering many people are already use to doing this with their smart phones(with most still under the illusion that their phone is actually free) it's a genius move on Microsoft's part. And more importantly, it answers your question of how they can afford to launch the console under a $300 price point.


I wish consumers would educate themselves better and avoid going that route. You can find a one-year subscription to Live for $35-40 if you time it right and would come out considerably ahead. Anyone taking that $99+ 2 year deal ends up paying almost $460 for a console that you could own outright for $250 and even if you paid the $60 price for two years of Live cards that would still be only $370. But you're right, that would be a way to subsidize a new console under the $300 price point. I wouldn't do it, but you're probably right that there are people who would. People are being groomed to this model. Smartphones, Netflix, Hulu, DVRs...hell, even my cable company is trying to get people to do this with wireless networks now instead of suggesting the customer buy a wireless router for $50.

[The 1 2 P]

I wish consumers would educate themselves better and avoid going that route. You can find a one-year subscription to Live for $35-40 if you time it right and would come out considerably ahead. Anyone taking that $99+ 2 year deal ends up paying almost $460 for a console that you could own outright for $250 and even if you paid the $60 price for two years of Live cards that would still be only $370.

I agree but me and you aren't the target demographic for those subscription deals. That would be the smart phone loving crowd who don't think twice about signing a 2 year contract for $50-$100 a month and then will re-up at the end to a new 2 year contract continuing to pay $50-$100 so that they can get a "new" phone.

[danawhitaker]

More specifics about the PS4 DualShock 4:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/02/25/motion-sense-features-possible-with-new-ps4-controller.aspx

[Kiddo]

I think it's absolutely retarded for games to require controllers from the previous generation of the hardware.

I've rarely actually used the Wiimotes for anything outside of Wii BC stuff, so it's not like they're urgent business. They're there like how GC controllers were on the Wii, except since they're much more likely to be widely used they probably won't be removed in a further SKU.

Besides, who's gonna buy a Wii U that hasn't already got a Wii?

[kedawa]

I imagine there are plenty of potential Wii U owners that either couldn't be bothered with the Wii, or already sold theirs, but maybe you're right.

[kupomogli]

Besides, who's gonna buy a Wii U that hasn't already got a Wii?

That's like saying all those PS3 and 360 owners had to have a PS2 or Xbox, right? Obviously no one can be interested in a future console unless they're a fan of the previous console. Or so your post implies.

I'm eventually getting a Wii U and I don't own a Wii. There weren't enough games for the console that I was interested in, but for those that I was interested in, I own those and will be playing those along with the Wii U games I end up getting.

[kedawa]

You're still going to need those old peripherals to play Wii games anyway, then, because LOL Nintendo.

[Kiddo]

That's like saying all those PS3 and 360 owners had to have a PS2 or Xbox, right? Obviously no one can be interested in a future console unless they're a fan of the previous console. Or so your post implies.

There's multiple reasons why those two examples are hardly an analog to the one of the fastest sellers of the previous console generation keeping it's main selling point compatible with it's next iteration (HINT: Neither of those two were backward-compatible with their previous gen controllers to begin with), but I'll just say that as far as I can see you're a very unique case if you bought a Wii U this early in it's lifespan and -aren't- someone who has a tradition of buying Nintendo consoles close to launch, nevermind the Wi itself, considering the intial sales numbers.

If you weren't interested in the Wii, then what do you think the Wii U will offer to you that the Wii failed on? And why did you not wait until the Fall when there was more likely to be a slew of games to play?


You're still going to need those old peripherals to play Wii games anyway, then, because LOL Nintendo.

Why yes, because it'd be so much better to play Wii Sports Resort with a touch screen rather than the Wiimotion Plus it was originally designed for, right? :roll:

I mean, complaining about your old games being able to be played with your old controllers is like... what the heck world am I on? PS2 fans would've LOVED to have had DualShock 2 support on the PS3 right out of the gate instead of needing cumbersome USB Converters. Acting like this is some "LOL Nintendo" thing is just complaining for the sake of the complaining.

[kupomogli]

If you weren't interested in the Wii, then what do you think the Wii U will offer to you that the Wii failed on? And why did you not wait until the Fall when there was more likely to be a slew of games to play?


I'm eventually getting a Wii U and I don't own a Wii. There weren't enough games for the console that I was interested in, but for those that I was interested in, I own those and will be playing those along with the Wii U games I end up getting.

I'm not getting a Wii U anytime soon. Eventually. When that happens I'll be able to play all the Wii and Wii U games I own. New Super Mario Bros U, the next Xenoblade, and Super Smash Bros U are three games that I'll eventually get that add to the list of Wii games. So the Wii alone might not be enough games to get me to purchase the system, but Wii and Wii U games would be.

[kedawa]

There's multiple reasons why those two examples are hardly an analog to the one of the fastest sellers of the previous console generation keeping it's main selling point compatible with it's next iteration (HINT: Neither of those two were backward-compatible with their previous gen controllers to begin with), but I'll just say that as far as I can see you're a very unique case if you bought a Wii U this early in it's lifespan and -aren't- someone who has a tradition of buying Nintendo consoles close to launch, nevermind the Wi itself, considering the intial sales numbers.

If you weren't interested in the Wii, then what do you think the Wii U will offer to you that the Wii failed on? And why did you not wait until the Fall when there was more likely to be a slew of games to play?



Why yes, because it'd be so much better to play Wii Sports Resort with a touch screen rather than the Wiimotion Plus it was originally designed for, right? :roll:

I mean, complaining about your old games being able to be played with your old controllers is like... what the heck world am I on? PS2 fans would've LOVED to have had DualShock 2 support on the PS3 right out of the gate instead of needing cumbersome USB Converters. Acting like this is some "LOL Nintendo" thing is just complaining for the sake of the complaining.
Explain to me why the tablet or pro controller can't play Tatsunoko vs Capcom or NSMB. For that matter, why can't the classic controller and internal flash memory on Wii be used for GC games? Why can't I share data between a GBA cart in my GB Player and my GC for games that support GBA/GC link? We all know the answer, and it's quite simple; LOL Nintendo. Buy more accessories and cables, please!

And why would you need DS2 support on PS3? The sixaxis/DS3 works just fine for PS1 and PS2 games.
Sony did it correctly; the old peripherals are completely unnecessary, but if you really want to use your old controllers and memory cards, there's an adapter you can buy.

[danawhitaker]

And why would you need DS2 support on PS3? The sixaxis/DS3 works just fine for PS1 and PS2 games. Sony did it correctly; the old peripherals are completely unnecessary, but if you really want to use your old controllers and memory cards, there's an adapter you can buy.

I can see one reason immediately. When you buy a new console, it only includes one controller. That's pretty much standard. If you have multiple people in your household who would like to play games together, or if you have friends who come over to game who don't have their own system at home, then you're stuck coughing up another $45-55 (depending on sales and whatnot) for another controller. It would be a nice perk (not a necessity, but a perk) to have had the DS2 have work on the PS3. That would save you $50. Of course, that's not in Sony's best interest because that means you're not giving them as much money. And really, the expectation is sort of their own fault, because the controllers almost look identical and function pretty much identically and have the same button placement and have forever, so people have this expectation that they must be the same.

For what it's worth, Nintendo did provide connectivity for Gamecube controllers on the Wii for the backwards compatible games. Though I'll absolutely concede it's fairly rare to have that kind of backwards compatibility and Sony shouldn't necessarily be raked over the coals for not providing it.

[kupomogli]

I can see one reason immediately. When you buy a new console, it only includes one controller. That's pretty much standard. If you have multiple people in your household who would like to play games together, or if you have friends who come over to game who don't have their own system at home, then you're stuck coughing up another $45-55 (depending on sales and whatnot) for another controller. It would be a nice perk (not a necessity, but a perk) to have had the DS2 have work on the PS3. That would save you $50. Of course, that's not in Sony's best interest because that means you're not giving them as much money. And really, the expectation is sort of their own fault, because the controllers almost look identical and function pretty much identically and have the same button placement and have forever, so people have this expectation that they must be the same.

For what it's worth, Nintendo did provide connectivity for Gamecube controllers on the Wii for the backwards compatible games. Though I'll absolutely concede it's fairly rare to have that kind of backwards compatibility and Sony shouldn't necessarily be raked over the coals for not providing it.

As was stated, you can purchase adapters to use Dualshock 2's on the PS3. Wireless controllers started to catch since Microsoft launched the 360, so there's your reason why DS2 isn't supported. They included a wireless controller with four USB slots. While the DS2 isn't supported, most USB devices are supported to allow you a wider variety of peripherals you may already own or would rather purchase. You could find USB controllers as cheap as $9.99 in stores.

Also. Their redesign of the DS4 is the reason why DS3 is no longer working. Replacing start and select with options and adding a share buttons. Although I can't see why they don't just configure the DS3 to use select as options and start as share. I'd rather go through the inconvenience of making a mistake and pushing the wrong button over purchasing new controllers.

[kedawa]

Perhaps they don't use the same wireless tech? PS3 uses somewhat non-standard implementations of both USB and bluetooth, and I imagine PS4 will adhere more closely to industry standard specifications for stuff like that.

[The 1 2 P]

For anyone who was thinking about buying a PS4/Orbis development kit (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Playstation-4-Orbis-demo-dev-kit-/230936007904?pt=Video_Games&hash=item35c4dbd4e0). Supposedly.

[Kiddo]

Explain to me why the tablet or pro controller can't play Tatsunoko vs Capcom or NSMB. For that matter, why can't the classic controller and internal flash memory on Wii be used for GC games? Why can't I share data between a GBA cart in my GB Player and my GC for games that support GBA/GC link? We all know the answer, and it's quite simple; LOL Nintendo. Buy more accessories and cables, please!

I'll start by saying that this is a notable shift from your original "lol Nintendo" line, which almost implied as though Nintendo's BC as a very concept was somehow flawed.

Bolded part: I've played Wii Virtual Console games and Samurai Warriors 3 with the Pro Controller just fine. I don't see why those two games would be problematic unless they never worked with classic controllers to start with. It's literally just a different design for the original Classic Controller, just like the "Wii U MotionPlus Controller" is just a different branding; there's little compatibility difference. Where do you read your "info"? If you're gonna be asking a bunch of questions, at least fact-check for accuracy.

As for everything else: The tablet incompatibility's not a good example of your "nickel and diming" accusation since there's nothing you could theoretically buy or do that'd suddenly make Wii games run on the tablet. While it's a legiitimate issue with the hardware since it'd be a nice feature to have off-TV play on the Wii back catalog, your accusation of motive hardly makes sense in this instance.

All the other stuff just sounds like asking ridiculous questions being pressed just for the sake of it. You're literally the first person I've ever seen mope about the Gamecube compatibility on the Wii not being able to use the internal storage for save data. What would you have gained from this feature, if anything really substantial? I'd rather keep my internal storage for the actual Wii apps.

And you've got the complaints about the Gamecube controller completely reversed: It was more annoying when Gamecube controllers didn't work with certain Wii games (Boycotted Metal Slug Anthology on this issue, myself), and it'll especially be frustrating that you can't connect them to a Wii U without some converter when the next Smash Bros. comes out. If you already had Gamecube controllers, you'd probably have considered classic controllers a non-factor for the Wii's lifespan.

And... What the heck kind of crazy GBA/GC link shenigans are you trying to do in a GB Player that you couldn't do in a significantly easier to obtain, easier to use, less cumbersome, and/or cheaper GBA model? Trying to load those Animal Crossing NES games on the GB Player instead of, y'know, using AC's built in emulator? I mean, heck, why would you even purchase a GB Player, a niche interest item, and then turn around and accuse Nintendo of nickel-and-diming you? I don't have a GB Player. Because it didn't do anything for me. I didn't have to buy it for any reason. What does this even have to do with backward compatibility in the first place?

Honestly, you sound like someone who's complaining about things you've never used, or planned to use, in the first place.


And why would you need DS2 support on PS3? The sixaxis/DS3 works just fine for PS1 and PS2 games.

Except for, y'know, their inferiority over the DS2. Just because it's a "new" controller doesn't make it better. Especially the Sixaxis. Now, imagine if Sony went with that Boomerang that they originally proposed.

Also the blatant hypocracy in complaining when you incorrectly state Nintendo doesn't let you use Pro Controller on Wii games, but expecting Dual Shock 2 fans to put up with -actually- being nickeled and dimed so they can continue using their controller on the next-gen console. Ugh.

And also the fact that the PS2 was back-compatibile with PS1 controllers right outta the box, which was something that was nice and convenient for everyone and no one had to argue about whether a DS2 controller "works just fine" on PSOne games to justify an upgrade.
You see, I believe total backward compatibility, where EVERYTHING from the old gen works on the new gen hardware, would be a nice ideal to have.
Sony had it right with PS1 to PS2, but not the PS3. Nintendo had GC BC (minus some niche adapters) right on the Wii, and on the Wii to Wii U side of things it's alright, but then the GC BC has been ditched, so there's also steps backward there.

[kedawa]

Those games DO NOT WORK with the new Wii U controller or the tablet AS A CONTROLLER. NO WII GAME DOES.
Maybe you should fact check before shitting up the thread with walls of text.